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***Official putting together an Audiophile system - electric boogaloo*** (1 Viewer)

I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on a lot of this stuff - then I read some posts and I'm like wtf is that :lmao:   :bag:

BTW - dual sub is AWESOME......

Its the tiny piece I was missing.  I didnt play around with placement - I have everything "up front/stage"  but I always felt the room was missing just a bit.  So happy now

Thanks all

 
belljr said:
I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on a lot of this stuff - then I read some posts and I'm like wtf is that :lmao:   :bag:

BTW - dual sub is AWESOME......

Its the tiny piece I was missing.  I didnt play around with placement - I have everything "up front/stage"  but I always felt the room was missing just a bit.  So happy now

Thanks all
Click to expand...
If you ever feel you have a good grasp on this stuff just head over to avs-forum, that'll fix you right up :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 
Klimtology said:
I have a really dumb question. Why are tube amplifiers with low wattage (ex. 20 watts per channel) generally as good or better than SS amps with higher wattage (100+watts per channel). How are they able to power my B& W's for example (Sensitivity: 91dB)? I guess not all watts are created equal. I've always wondered about this an haven't heard an explanation that makes sense to me

TIA
Click to expand...


It is all fairly complicated when you get into the math and engineering aspects of it.

The simple answer is the whole wattage thing gets a little silly, and is somewhat meaningless. If you have enough to sufficiently drive your speakers (and some lower sensitivity speakers, like less than 89db, do require more power), that's all you need. Just throwing more wattage out is meaningless. That's kind of a 70's holdover with the receiver wars, when every company had to have a "big wattage" receiver. 

To equate it to another 70's thing, it's almost like muscle cars / engine cubic inches / speed. That Mustang with the 289 might beat the Chevelle with the 350. Or something with 400+. There's waaay more to it than just engine size. 

Honestly, if you're talking about speakers in your house and not a studio or a club, a 20w tube amp will drive a solid majority of them. Go up to 35-50w, and you're good for nearly anything you'd have in your home. I've heard a little 15w tube amp drive huge ADS 1530's beautifully (pic = not me). 

 
Wasn't sure where to post this but found it funny.

I'm in the basement watching golf.

Wife comes down needs to talk to me about something. Sitting in a chair to the side.

Is talking - then pauses -   whats that noise?

Me: what noise?

Her: Sounds like there is a bird down here

Me: :lol:  It is a bird

Her: where is it?

Me: on tv :lmao:

Her: :confused:  what?  :lol:

 
Time to upgrade my av receiver.

Nothing crazy, my wife wont allow it.

Looking at the Marantz 5015, 5014, or 6014

8K isn't really a thing yet, so its not a big thing

Thoughts?

 
Wrigley said:
Time to upgrade my av receiver.

Nothing crazy, my wife wont allow it.

Looking at the Marantz 5015, 5014, or 6014

8K isn't really a thing yet, so its not a big thing

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Do you care about 9.2 vs 7.2

I mean if you are spending that much might as well go 6014?

 
Wrigley said:
Time to upgrade my av receiver.

Nothing crazy, my wife wont allow it.

Looking at the Marantz 5015, 5014, or 6014

8K isn't really a thing yet, so its not a big thing

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Have the 6013 and LOVE it, moved to it from a Denon 3313CI because of 4k. Think it was a really nice upgrade.

My thoughts on 8k, we're in the early stages and there will most certainly be iterations of the current standards or even entirely new standards for HDMI and cables. I'd wait since we seem to a few years from 8k, but that's just me.

 
Hawks64 said:
Have the 6013 and LOVE it, moved to it from a Denon 3313CI because of 4k. Think it was a really nice upgrade.

My thoughts on 8k, we're in the early stages and there will most certainly be iterations of the current standards or even entirely new standards for HDMI and cables. I'd wait since we seem to a few years from 8k, but that's just me.
Click to expand...
This was my thought too

 
Thinking about picking up a Marantz 2250B.  Has anyone else had this model?  Feedback?

I had to sell my 2238B a while back, and I miss it.  I'll probably use Dynaco A25's with whatever Marantz I grab next.  They are nice to stream through also.

 
Stupid question: Does  VRR(Variable Refresh Rate),  QFT (Quick Frame transport, or  4K 100/120Hz passthrough matter for cinema?  Or is it strictly for gaming? 

I guess the question really is, do I need to worry about these for future cinema as this will be used mostly for Movies and TV?

 
Captain Cranks said:
The folks over at AVSForum have suggested these as a more budget friendly alternative. RSL C34E

I've read these are good too. Micca Reference R-8C

Ideally you want something with a tweeter you can aim at the main listening position. 
Click to expand...
Thanks for this.  Dang, as cheap as these are I may want to go with 4 rather than just 4, but that means an 11 channel amp, rather than 9 when I upgrade. 

As for content, are 4K blu ray discs manufactured with 9 or 11 channels of audio, or is the receiver taking 7 channels and producing the other 2/4 height channels?

 
matttyl said:
Thanks for this.  Dang, as cheap as these are I may want to go with 4 rather than just 4, but that means an 11 channel amp, rather than 9 when I upgrade. 

As for content, are 4K blu ray discs manufactured with 9 or 11 channels of audio, or is the receiver taking 7 channels and producing the other 2/4 height channels?
Click to expand...
Most non-Atmos Dolby is five discrete channels. Our 7.1 systems matrix in 2 back surrounds with the receiver, but they're not engineered at the studio discretely. Atmos is object based. Here's an explanation I just found:

"Atmos is capable of producing 128 channels of sound routed to 64 speakers, however, home theatre systems will largely contain 9 channels of Dolby Atmos, with a configuration of 5.1. 4 (the simplest layout)."

So if you were to ditch 2 speakers to get to 9, the back surrounds are recommended.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Have a home theatre question I’m hoping someone can help me with.  It’s a bit complicated, dealing with HDCP and ARC.  

I have an Xbox one S that I’m using as a 4K steamer and hd blu ray disc player.  It has HDCP 2.2 and a single HDMI out (as well as an optical audio out).  Just upgraded (finally) to a 4K TV, a Samsung un65nu7100.  It also has HDCP 2.2, as well as ARC (but not eARC).  

My 7.1 system’s hangup, I think, is my Denon x3000 receiver between them.  While it will “pass through” a 4K signal, it isn’t HDCP 2.2 compliant, but has ARC on its HDMI output. So I instead connected the Xbox directly to the TV via HDMI which allows for a perfectly fine 4K video signal (yay!!), and then have the TV output audio via ARC back to receiver - but because neither are eARC, I believe it’s just basic Dolby surround (not Dolby trueHD, and not 7.1).

So with this setup am I correct to say that I can either get 4K video with non-HD audio (how I currently have it set up), OR can get HD audio but not 4K video (connect Xbox directly to receiver and receiver to TV), but not both?  In order to get both I’d have to upgrade my receiver?

 
matttyl said:
Have a home theatre question I’m hoping someone can help me with.  It’s a bit complicated, dealing with HDCP and ARC.  

I have an Xbox one S that I’m using as a 4K steamer and hd blu ray disc player.  It has HDCP 2.2 and a single HDMI out (as well as an optical audio out).  Just upgraded (finally) to a 4K TV, a Samsung un65nu7100.  It also has HDCP 2.2, as well as ARC (but not eARC).  

My 7.1 system’s hangup, I think, is my Denon x3000 receiver between them.  While it will “pass through” a 4K signal, it isn’t HDCP 2.2 compliant, but has ARC on its HDMI output. So I instead connected the Xbox directly to the TV via HDMI which allows for a perfectly fine 4K video signal (yay!!), and then have the TV output audio via ARC back to receiver - but because neither are eARC, I believe it’s just basic Dolby surround (not Dolby trueHD, and not 7.1).

So with this setup am I correct to say that I can either get 4K video with non-HD audio (how I currently have it set up), OR can get HD audio but not 4K video (connect Xbox directly to receiver and receiver to TV), but not both?  In order to get both I’d have to upgrade my receiver?
Click to expand...
So you have two options IMO. Both aren't great and one is very limited. Both options will have you run another output from the TV or the XBox to the Denon using optical.

Option 1 is to run optical out from the TV to the Denon, your TV only supports dolby digital in that format.

Option 2 would be to run optical out from the Xbox to the Denon and it should support any modern format that the Denon can decode.

 
Hawks64 said:
So you have two options IMO. Both aren't great and one is very limited. Both options will have you run another output from the TV or the XBox to the Denon using optical.

Option 1 is to run optical out from the TV to the Denon, your TV only supports dolby digital in that format.

Option 2 would be to run optical out from the Xbox to the Denon and it should support any modern format that the Denon can decode.
Click to expand...
Thanks for info.  Option 1 doesn’t get me anything additional as currently with ARC I’m getting basic Dolby digital.  Option 2 is the same, as optical can’t feed HD audio formats.  I think I’m “stuck” until I upgrade receiver.  “Stuck” meaning I can get true 4K video, but have a lower tier audio output, which honestly I’m not sure I could the difference between, but I love seeing “Dolby trueHD” on then receiver screen.  

 
matttyl said:
Thanks for info.  Option 1 doesn’t get me anything additional as currently with ARC I’m getting basic Dolby digital.  Option 2 is the same, as optical can’t feed HD audio formats.  I think I’m “stuck” until I upgrade receiver.  “Stuck” meaning I can get true 4K video, but have a lower tier audio output, which honestly I’m not sure I could the difference between, but I love seeing “Dolby trueHD” on then receiver screen.  
Click to expand...
That's incorrect, you won't get Atmos but definitely HD streams from both Dolby and DTS. You can change the settings on the Xbox to bitstream out for optical, then the receiver will decode it properly. With the Denon you get all of these via Bitstream:

Dolby Digital / DTS / Dolby TrueHD /
Dolby Digital Plus /
DTS-HD Master Audio /
DTS-HD High Resolution Audio /
DTS Express

Check out page 200 on the manual for supported formats for each input type.

 
Hawks64 said:
That's incorrect, you won't get Atmos but definitely HD streams from both Dolby and DTS. You can change the settings on the Xbox to bitstream out for optical, then the receiver will decode it properly. With the Denon you get all of these via Bitstream:

Dolby Digital / DTS / Dolby TrueHD /
Dolby Digital Plus /
DTS-HD Master Audio /
DTS-HD High Resolution Audio /
DTS Express

Check out page 200 on the manual for supported formats for each input type.
Click to expand...
Pages 198-200 of the manual are all under the “about HDMI” section.  I’ve read that “Dolby true HD cannot be transferred by digital optical or digital coaxial audio connections.”  

 
Can someone explain to me what this "8k upscaling" is all about with the newest receivers (like this Denon)?

Is it even relevant if I'm not a gamer?

Will it do anything to the PQ of a 4k signal from a Roku or BD player?

Does it do anything if you're connected to a 4k not 8k TV?
 
Talk to me about turntables.

Recommendations for a decent one that is sub-$300?

I bought a pair of Kef Q150 bookshelf speakers for a song (heh heh) over the holiday and have a Denon receiver with phono out. So I'm looking to play some vinyl and see what I'm missing out on.

I'm thinking about the Audio-Technica AT- LPW30TK since I have a few Best Buy gift cards to use.
 
Andy Dufresne said:
Can someone explain to me what this "8k upscaling" is all about with the newest receivers (like this Denon)?

Is it even relevant if I'm not a gamer?

Will it do anything to the PQ of a 4k signal from a Roku or BD player?

Does it do anything if you're connected to a 4k not 8k TV?
Click to expand...
Shouldn’t mean anything if your current stuff is all 4K. Maybe some future proofing, but that’s a rough game to play.
 
Andy Dufresne said:
Talk to me about turntables.

Recommendations for a decent one that is sub-$300?

I bought a pair of Kef Q150 bookshelf speakers for a song (heh heh) over the holiday and have a Denon receiver with phono out. So I'm looking to play some vinyl and see what I'm missing out on.

I'm thinking about the Audio-Technica AT- LPW30TK since I have a few Best Buy gift cards to use.
Click to expand...

Yuck........ That turntable is $249 currently at best buy. The cartridge (needle) that comes with it they sell for $99. It has a line out conection you will never use, as you have a phono input on you receiver. You receiver phono input will be of better quality than the one built into the turntable. Thus this table was produced (in china :angry:) for about $50.

My advice is to take the gift cards you have at best buy and buy the best phono cartridge you can there. Then search your local craigslist or Marketplace and find and old school turntable made in Japan or Germany for under $100. Something silver from the 70's (Technics, Kenwood, Sony, ect). If you like the wood look search for a Dual.

:2cents:
 
OldMilwaukee said:
Andy Dufresne said:
Talk to me about turntables.

Recommendations for a decent one that is sub-$300?

I bought a pair of Kef Q150 bookshelf speakers for a song (heh heh) over the holiday and have a Denon receiver with phono out. So I'm looking to play some vinyl and see what I'm missing out on.

I'm thinking about the Audio-Technica AT- LPW30TK since I have a few Best Buy gift cards to use.
Click to expand...

Yuck........ That turntable is $249 currently at best buy. The cartridge (needle) that comes with it they sell for $99. It has a line out conection you will never use, as you have a phono input on you receiver. You receiver phono input will be of better quality than the one built into the turntable. Thus this table was produced (in china :angry:) for about $50.

My advice is to take the gift cards you have at best buy and buy the best phono cartridge you can there. Then search your local craigslist or Marketplace and find and old school turntable made in Japan or Germany for under $100. Something silver from the 70's (Technics, Kenwood, Sony, ect). If you like the wood look search for a Dual.

:2cents:
Click to expand...
Perfect, thanks! :hifive:
 
Andy Dufresne said:
OldMilwaukee said:
Andy Dufresne said:
Talk to me about turntables.

Recommendations for a decent one that is sub-$300?

I bought a pair of Kef Q150 bookshelf speakers for a song (heh heh) over the holiday and have a Denon receiver with phono out. So I'm looking to play some vinyl and see what I'm missing out on.

I'm thinking about the Audio-Technica AT- LPW30TK since I have a few Best Buy gift cards to use.
Click to expand...

Yuck........ That turntable is $249 currently at best buy. The cartridge (needle) that comes with it they sell for $99. It has a line out conection you will never use, as you have a phono input on you receiver. You receiver phono input will be of better quality than the one built into the turntable. Thus this table was produced (in china :angry:) for about $50.

My advice is to take the gift cards you have at best buy and buy the best phono cartridge you can there. Then search your local craigslist or Marketplace and find and old school turntable made in Japan or Germany for under $100. Something silver from the 70's (Technics, Kenwood, Sony, ect). If you like the wood look search for a Dual.

:2cents:
Click to expand...
Perfect, thanks! :hifive:
Click to expand...

As someone who is pretty big into vinyl and owns two old Denon turntables (built like tanks), and also had two older Duals (not quite as tanky), I would caution going the "old" route. If this is a hobby where you'll always have several of them and/or you don't mind fiddling with it then it's fine but a lot of these old decks can need work. And cartridge swapping can be a pain.

The thing is your price point is just under what I'd consider a decent turntable. $350 - $500 gets you a pretty nice entry-level turntable.

Denon DP-300F
Audio Technica LP120

I've owned both of these and they are decent entry level turntables that are prettymuch set and forget. The Denon is fully automatic which is good when you fall asleep in your chair because Van Morrison sounds so freaken' good - it'll pick up the tonearm when done. I'm sticking to Best Buy for using the gift cards but if you want to venture out of Best Buy then Project makes some decent models in the 4-500 range. And U-Turn makes a really nice turntable with an acrylic platter for $329 .

Enjoy - vinyl is fun.
 
Andy Dufresne said:
Talk to me about turntables.

Recommendations for a decent one that is sub-$300?

I bought a pair of Kef Q150 bookshelf speakers for a song (heh heh) over the holiday and have a Denon receiver with phono out. So I'm looking to play some vinyl and see what I'm missing out on.

I'm thinking about the Audio-Technica AT- LPW30TK since I have a few Best Buy gift cards to use.
Click to expand...

Here ya go.

I got my kid the $150 Bluetooth one. Will buy the Sony speakers for about $90-$100 when they’re on sale if she’s serious. Hell, I might buy them for my basement.
 
Andy Dufresne said:
Here's another total newb question...is it better to use the two prong RCA's or single phono cable?
Click to expand...


If you are using RCA interconnects to connect turntable to your amplifier or phono stage, then it will be a pair ( R L)

You dont need to spend a ton on RCA interconnects, but a good rule of thumb is to spend 10-15% of the cost of your system on cables
 
Andy Dufresne said:
Talk to me about turntables.

Recommendations for a decent one that is sub-$300?

I bought a pair of Kef Q150 bookshelf speakers for a song (heh heh) over the holiday and have a Denon receiver with phono out. So I'm looking to play some vinyl and see what I'm missing out on.

I'm thinking about the Audio-Technica AT- LPW30TK since I have a few Best Buy gift cards to use.
Click to expand...


May be a bit pricier. but during COVID I went back to vinyl and bought a Rega Planar turntable.. sounds great! - half the fun of vinyl is searching used record stores and flea markets! Quality is hit or miss sometimes, but I once found a used Beatles Sargent Pepper's for a buck (cover was beat) and it sounded fantastic.. fun hobby!
 
Andy Dufresne said:
Here's another total newb question...is it better to use the two prong RCA's or single phono cable?
Click to expand...

since your Denon has a phono input you'll be using RCA's (two jacks each side, usually red and white). Single cables typically aren't used for attaching components.
 
jwb said:
Andy Dufresne said:
Here's another total newb question...is it better to use the two prong RCA's or single phono cable?
Click to expand...

since your Denon has a phono input you'll be using RCA's (two jacks each side, usually red and white). Single cables typically aren't used for attaching components.
Click to expand...
Oh I get it now. I was confusing the phono inputs with pre-amp outputs...Or something like that. Derp.
 
Andy Dufresne said:
jwb said:
Andy Dufresne said:
Here's another total newb question...is it better to use the two prong RCA's or single phono cable?
Click to expand...

since your Denon has a phono input you'll be using RCA's (two jacks each side, usually red and white). Single cables typically aren't used for attaching components.
Click to expand...
Oh I get it now. I was confusing the phono inputs with pre-amp outputs...Or something like that. Derp.
Click to expand...

Subwoofers can sometimes get a single cable. And things like TV audio. That might be what you are thinking of.
 
Klimtology said:
I've got the Spin Clean Vinyl cleaner, it won a bunch of awards, but it doesn't work miracles.

:oldunsure:
Click to expand...

I have a VPI vaccuum machine. https://www.turntablelab.com/products/vpi-hw-16-5-vinyl-record-cleaning-machine

I really like it (it's built like a tank and does a nice job), but wow that price jumped from a few years ago (I think I paid $600 for mine). I had a spin clean as well, and the machine is much better/easier/faster. It looks like maybe they aren't making them anymore as they are out of stock in a lot of places.

Two way less expensive vaccuum-style alternatives.

Record doctor - https://www.amazon.com/Record-Doctor-VI-High-Performance-Cleaning/dp/B07Z6PFD7D/
Pro-ject - https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Ject-VC-E-Record-Cleaning-Machine/dp/B084KMXKZ2/

You could also go the ultrasonic route. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=ultrasonic+record+cleaner These seem pretty inexpensive but I have no idea how well they work as opposed to the vaccuum style. Might want to visit some audio forums and ask around.

one last thing - it can be frustrating. Some records won't sound sound good even after cleaning, despite looking pristine. And I've had lousy looking records full of scratches/etc sound great. Still, overall, cleaner records = better sound overall, and you bought a pretty nice TT so making sure your records are clean is pretty important.
 
Hey jwb!

What was your experience with the Spin Clean? Mine is it makes absolutely no difference. I'm thinking about returning it.

TIA
 
Klimtology said:
Hey jwb!

What was your experience with the Spin Clean? Mine is it makes absolutely no difference. I'm thinking about returning it.

TIA
Click to expand...

It worked ok - it's a little too much work for what it did. I paid like $39 for mine and after a year I bought the VPI. I ended up giving the spin clean to a kid at an audio show who was just getting started in vinyl. He appreciated it.

Cleaning is almost a must if you're buying used albums, but it definitely can't help a damaged/worn record. The thing is we can't always see the damage.
 
Rega makes good turntables

Project debut carbon is another quality turntable but its around $600 these days

Advice about buying a turntable, if you dont know what you are doing with the setup, best to buy it from a local store that can do that for you.
 
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