***Official putting together an Audiophile system - electric boogaloo*** (4 Viewers)

[Maelstrom]

It really depends. My BIL has bought the enclosure kits and then bought the crossovers and speakers from an entirely different place, saying that the all in one kits don't always have the good electronics or drivers.

FWIW, I probably would be just getting the electronics/drivers and building the kit itself myself (they have the recommended enclosure build designs available as a PDF). That is this company's expertise (speakers/electronics) and while they sell the flat pack (wood kitt), I believe they partnered with someone else for that. I haven't priced out the wood to see if the flat pack is worth it ($150 but all pre-cut, including routing cutouts for the speaker holes and wire attachment cups).

 

[BigJim®]

Accepting recommendations on a new 7 channel receiver to replace my old Sony STR 4DAes. Was awesome at one point, but I'm pretty much done working around obsolete inputs. I keep checking Costco - who always seems to have great selection of TVs - but they have just 1 or 2 mediocre rated receivers whenever I check. Not looking to break the bank, but would like to enter technology of this century at an affordable price.  

 

[Hawks64]

Accepting recommendations on a new 7 channel receiver to replace my old Sony STR 4DAes. Was awesome at one point, but I'm pretty much done working around obsolete inputs. I keep checking Costco - who always seems to have great selection of TVs - but they have just 1 or 2 mediocre rated receivers whenever I check. Not looking to break the bank, but would like to enter technology of this century at an affordable price.  

If you liked your old Sony why not stick with them and get a new ES?

 

[Hawks64]

FWIW, I probably would be just getting the electronics/drivers and building the kit itself myself (they have the recommended enclosure build designs available as a PDF). That is this company's expertise (speakers/electronics) and while they sell the flat pack (wood kitt), I believe they partnered with someone else for that. I haven't priced out the wood to see if the flat pack is worth it ($150 but all pre-cut, including routing cutouts for the speaker holes and wire attachment cups).

Never been my thing but my BIL loves doing that, he also really likes it from a value perspective.

ETA  he has used Parts Express a bunch and is pleased with the end product.

 

[BigJim®]

If you liked your old Sony why not stick with them and get a new ES?

It's why I'm asking. My sense (right or wrong) is Sony is more name $ than quality $ at this point.

 

[Hawks64]

It's why I'm asking. My sense (right or wrong) is Sony is more name $ than quality $ at this point.

ES typically isn't. I have a preference for Denon and Marantz but if you like the way a particular brand sounds than I'd stick with it.

 

[The Tick]

Been thinking about upgrading my speakers, as I've recently updated both my receiver (Yamaha TSR-700 7.1 from Costco, so still relatively "entry" level as far as these things go) and TV.

Anyways, feel like it's time to actually have some really nice speakers, not the controversy driving ones I have now (see below). My general use case is movies, but I do also just use them for music (although often just streaming). And the horror, but I don't generally flip the stereo from 7.1 to 2 channel for music (but I may if I have speakers decent enough to hear the difference).

I know you don't necessarily save money, but I have been considering building 4 identical speakers for the front/rear L/R, and a center channel and new sub. Not sure about what to do for the Atmos speakers yet, but probably should consider upgrading those, but may just purchase something. May keep the existing sub at first, as it still works pretty good and is pretty tight, but looking for something that can provide a bigger punch (while not getting sloppy).

Been looking at GR-Research - the X-LS Encores kits for the 4 L/R speakers and X-CS Encore for the center channel. Anyone have any experience with them or thoughts on other suggestions to look at?

For speakers, currently (please, only mild judgement) I have the following (yes, Bose, but it's the bookshelf versions, not the little squares, at least, and I bought them all used a long time ago at no where near retail, if it matters).

A couple pieces of my personal advice (others may disagree):

Never spend a significant amount on speakers that you haven't listened to, I can't stress that enough.  Audio is very personal for a couple of reasons, one different speakers sound different and you may prefer something over another.  Two, not everyone hears the same, and that even changes as you age.  Two people may listen to the same set of speakers and one person thinks they sound different, and the other person may just say, they both sound good to me.  Go to a place where you can bring in music or a favorite movie and sit back and give them a listen.  Buy what you think sounds good not what a sales guy, or someone on this board says is better, because frankly you may not care once you get up to higher level speakers.

Keep your front L/C/R speakers matched, but don't worry as much about your surround stuff.  Maybe this has changed some with Dolby Atmos so i could be out of date here, but most of the music and dialog come from those front speakers and having those as a match set is nice.  When you get to rear or surround, or whatever they are actually calling them now, speakers, you can usually go with something slightly different, maybe save some money, and I don't think you will notice a huge difference in quality.  Not saying I'd go super low end with them, but I sometimes look more at aesthetics when doing the rears.  Not everyone has a full theater room, where they can set a matched pair of what you have up front in the back.  I went with a nice set of in-ceiling speakers, and have been REALLY happy with them.

 

[Ilov80s]

I upgraded last year from an Onkyo system from 2000. It was a really quality system but just wasn't compatible anymore. I got a Denon reciever and kept the 5.1 Onkyo speakers. I was able to find 2 Onkyo Atmos speakers to add to it. It sounds incredible- just blows away what I had before. You get incredible quality, volume and the specificity of the sound location. 

 

[Chaos Commish]

I upgraded last year from an Onkyo system from 2000. It was a really quality system but just wasn't compatible anymore. I got a Denon reciever and kept the 5.1 Onkyo speakers. I was able to find 2 Onkyo Atmos speakers to add to it. It sounds incredible- just blows away what I had before. You get incredible quality, volume and the specificity of the sound location. 

Similar situation for me. I posted about my dead Onkyo in this thread somewhere. It was a very sweet sounding unit. Upgraded to a Denon, @BigJim®this Denon from that site, and it is a nice improvement in sound through the same speakers perhaps because of the additional sub. You can spend a hellalot more without gaining "that" much improvement. I'm pretty nerdy about audio with almost 5k in another music only setup and there's just not much difference unless you want the police to visit. 

 

[Maelstrom]

A couple pieces of my personal advice (others may disagree):

Never spend a significant amount on speakers that you haven't listened to, I can't stress that enough.  Audio is very personal for a couple of reasons, one different speakers sound different and you may prefer something over another.  Two, not everyone hears the same, and that even changes as you age. 

...

Keep your front L/C/R speakers matched, but don't worry as much about your surround stuff.

For the latter comment first, I have considered that for the surrounds, as it makes sense. Even with 7.1, the majority of the sound is still the L/C/R.

For the first part though, not sure that's really possible if I go a DIY route. Even if I did listen to them from someone else's build, my ability and build quality would affect how they sound, not to mention individual component variations. I guess it also depends on what "a significant amount" is. I figure I can probably build a full set (FCR + 2 rears) for about the same as the Klipsch Reference Dolby Atmos Surround System set at Costco (~$900). They get decent reviewed depending on how far into the "audiophile" range you go.

 

[BigJim®]

@BigJim®this Denon from that site, and it is a nice improvement in sound through the same speakers perhaps because of the additional sub. 

Looks like this link is a refurbished. I see it comes with 1 year warranty... is refurb generally safe? I had a bad experience once getting a refurbed generator that looked like it had been through a war.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Looks like this link is a refurbished. I see it comes with 1 year warranty... is refurb generally safe? I had a bad experience once getting a refurbed generator that looked like it had been through a war.

I have two of their refurbs and set my sis up with another. All deals on Denons, not that this brand is necesarily better than others, just good deals. As far as I can tell they were brand new, factory packaging in tact. All three going strong, one 7 years old and in pretty heavy use. For another hundred you can get one without the refurb designation somewhere else. I'm just fearless about refurbs and frugal to a fault. 

 

[BigJim®]

Apologies for my ignorance, but can someone explain whether there is a relation between weight and quality of a receiver? I see the Denon 960 is 21 lbs. A comparable Sony es is 33 lbs. The Denon 760 on Costco is 19 lbs. My current STR 4DAes is a monstrous 54 lbs. 

ETA: I get that my Sony is a dinosaur and new technology of most sorts gets lighter, but even the 33 lb vs 19 lb of current models seems odd to me. 

ETA2: It appears the S760 at Costco is new stock upgrade of the S750 that drew mediocre reviews. Seems to track most of the same specs as the S960... at $449. I may try to make my way through a 46 page thread on AVS forum on this unit.

 

[KGB]

Similar situation for me. I posted about my dead Onkyo in this thread somewhere. It was a very sweet sounding unit. Upgraded to a Denon, @BigJim®this Denon from that site, and it is a nice improvement in sound through the same speakers perhaps because of the additional sub. You can spend a hellalot more without gaining "that" much improvement. I'm pretty nerdy about audio with almost 5k in another music only setup and there's just not much difference unless you want the police to visit. 

 

[John123]

Apologies for my ignorance, but can someone explain whether there is a relation between weight and quality of a receiver? I see the Denon 960 is 21 lbs. A comparable Sony es is 33 lbs. The Denon 760 on Costco is 19 lbs. My current STR 4DAes is a monstrous 54 lbs. 

ETA: I get that my Sony is a dinosaur and new technology of most sorts gets lighter, but even the 33 lb vs 19 lb of current models seems odd to me. 

Quality?  Not specifically.  The heaviest stuff inside a receiver is the power supply and the heat sinks.  Generally, the more power a receiver can put out the larger the power supply and heat sinks will be which will increase the weight and size of the receiver.  That being said, there have been some innovative designs such as Bob Carver's magnetic field amplifier which was light relative to the power it put out.  So, it's not a requirement that weight correlate to anything in particular, but often it does. 

I have a Sony ES STR-DA2ES so the model right below yours.  I replaced it with a Denon AVR-3600H a couple years ago to get up to date.  Use the Sony in my office now.

 

[PIK95]

I sold my Marantz 2238B today for five hundy.  My business has been non existent for almost two years now.  Our washing machine broke so bye bye Marantz.  The atty who bought it was very excited.  I was happy for him, but now I can't sleep, lol.

Scored a new CD player with remote I wanted on the bay for a hundy yesterday also.  It's a duplicate of my California Audio Icon MKII Power Boss.  I was missing the remote, so score.  I'll get the player serviced and sell/trade it probably.  So that worked out.  I love my Cal Audio's.

 

[RC94]

I'm looking to buy a good but as small as possible system.  I wanted something like that Bose Wave thing as far as size, but I want good quality sound.  I'm willing to spend a decent amount on this if needed.  Any advice and help would be appreciated since I know nothing about this.  I would like to keep it under $1000 in total if possible, but considering what I'm looking for I don't think that should be an issue.  My current stereo is very old and not compatible and doesn't even have USB ports.  It's was a great stereo at the time, but it's long past time for an upgrade to the modern world.

 

[The Tick]

For the latter comment first, I have considered that for the surrounds, as it makes sense. Even with 7.1, the majority of the sound is still the L/C/R.

For the first part though, not sure that's really possible if I go a DIY route. Even if I did listen to them from someone else's build, my ability and build quality would affect how they sound, not to mention individual component variations. I guess it also depends on what "a significant amount" is. I figure I can probably build a full set (FCR + 2 rears) for about the same as the Klipsch Reference Dolby Atmos Surround System set at Costco (~$900). They get decent reviewed depending on how far into the "audiophile" range you go.

Yeah, I could never do DIY for that reason.  I really want to know what I'm getting with speakers, and i'm not sure you are assured of getting better sound then similar preforming speakers, and I thiknk you are just better off listening to stuff, finding what you like and buying it.  Have you listed to any systems to see what you think of things priced in your range?

 

[Maelstrom]

Yeah, I could never do DIY for that reason.  I really want to know what I'm getting with speakers, and i'm not sure you are assured of getting better sound then similar preforming speakers, and I thiknk you are just better off listening to stuff, finding what you like and buying it.  Have you listed to any systems to see what you think of things priced in your range?

I'm a bit of a tinkerer/maker/DIYer so that is often my default and I'm generally willing to take the chance I won't do as good to a certain extent. Althought that probably started out of necessity and that isn't really true anymore, I could go purchase some speakers outright. And to answer your question, I've listened to some in store setups, but not in stores that have rooms setup, stuff like that where you could actually hear them as you might in a home environment, so I don't know that I really count that.

Another consideration maybe is that my budget is capped fairly low as these kinds of things go because I know going into this that I have some hearing damage in certain ranges (mostly midrange) and so don't want to spend money on differences I likely won't be able to hear. But I was kinda figuring there's something that is better than my current Bose's for clarity that I'll be able to enjoy. For example, the Bose's are not great at movie dialog (heck, they probably weren't really intended for home theater at all) even with the center channel, IMO.

 

[Maelstrom]

I'm looking to buy a good but as small as possible system.  I wanted something like that Bose Wave thing as far as size, but I want good quality sound.  I'm willing to spend a decent amount on this if needed.  Any advice and help would be appreciated since I know nothing about this.  I would like to keep it under $1000 in total if possible, but considering what I'm looking for I don't think that should be an issue.  My current stereo is very old and not compatible and doesn't even have USB ports.  It's was a great stereo at the time, but it's long past time for an upgrade to the modern world.

I haven't really looked up the reviews but Costco has this set right now, it's a 5.1, so if you want Atmos you'd still need to add 2 more speakers for the atmospheric/height channel, but it comes with the sub and L\C\R + surrounds. They have a 7.1 set on sale there also, but it's significantly larger than "bookshelf" sized.

https://www.costco.com/klipsch-reference-theater-pack-5.1-channel-surround-sound-system.product.100492734.html

Amazon  and NewEgg may be cheaper right now, can't really see if it's actually a different set but seems like the same? Might be an older model though.
https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Reference-Theater-Surround-System/dp/B0779GRFWF)

I have heard that some people hate the horn tweeters on both these and the larger Klipsch sets, but that's probably subjective? Also, I'm fairly skeptical that the 8" sub can really provide the depth of bass you'd really want.

This gives you room though to add a budget receiver, like the Denon mentioned elsewhere in this thread or the Yamaha TSR-700, for example.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I haven't really looked up the reviews but Costco has this set right now, it's a 5.1, so if you want Atmos you'd still need to add 2 more speakers for the atmospheric/height channel, but it comes with the sub and L\C\R + surrounds. They have a 7.1 set on sale there also, but it's significantly larger than "bookshelf" sized.

https://www.costco.com/klipsch-reference-theater-pack-5.1-channel-surround-sound-system.product.100492734.html

I have heard that some people hate the horn tweeters on both these and the larger Klipsch sets, but that's probably subjective?

Somewhere in this thread, I think I confessed a bit of an addiction to diy audio builds. I've successfully completed a dozen or so builds, all speakers and one really good amp. I have 3 subwoofer projects started that I never completed and 6 bookshelf cabinets ready for drivers. All boxed up in my garage. After gifting my daughter nieces and nephews speakers made from their deceased grandparents old furniture one christmas, I just moved along. Four years ago. 

I have a bad habit of going way tl/dr on some topics around here, and I am resisting doing it here. During the 5 years or so I was diy-ing my audio I spent more time on the diyaudio forums than I did here. There's dozens of carefully detailed projects there that dollar for dollar will beat anything you can buy at Costco etc. I'm very satisfied with my successful projects and just don't have room for more or an interest in improvements. For $700-900 I have a simple home theater speaker project I have wanted space for for a long time. Just typing that got the juices flowing to go buy materials. It will be better or equal to $3000+ brand name systems and crush that Costco/Klipsch set up.

I'm not arguing with Tick. His thinking is correct for 99% of the people out there. And for most low budget and/or super small audio applications, diy is a bad idea. We can't compete with the engineering and manufacturing advantages of the big brand companies. Even part of that statement would be laughed at by the uber-nerd builders though. 

Do you have a project in mind? Happy to share mine in pms or here.

 

[Maelstrom]

Somewhere in this thread, I think I confessed a bit of an addiction to diy audio builds. I've successfully completed a dozen or so builds, all speakers and one really good amp. I have 3 subwoofer projects started that I never completed and 6 bookshelf cabinets ready for drivers. All boxed up in my garage. After gifting my daughter nieces and nephews speakers made from their deceased grandparents old furniture one christmas, I just moved along. Four years ago. 

I have a bad habit of going way tl/dr on some topics around here, and I am resisting doing it here. During the 5 years or so I was diy-ing my audio I spent more time on the diyaudio forums than I did here. There's dozens of carefully detailed projects there that dollar for dollar will beat anything you can buy at Costco etc. I'm very satisfied with my successful projects and just don't have room for more or an interest in improvements. For $700-900 I have a simple home theater speaker project I have wanted space for for a long time. Just typing that got the juices flowing to go buy materials. It will be better or equal to $3000+ brand name systems and crush that Costco/Klipsch set up.

I'm not arguing with Tick. His thinking is correct for 99% of the people out there. And for most low budget and/or super small audio applications, diy is a bad idea. We can't compete with the engineering and manufacturing advantages of the big brand companies. Even part of that statement would be laughed at by the uber-nerd builders though. 

Do you have a project in mind? Happy to share mine in pms or here.

Definitely have an interest in that HT speaker project. I'd been looking at a kit purchase from gr-research (see upthread, looking at the X-LS Encore x 2 (front / back L/R) and the X-CS Encore center and maybe the X-Bravo for Atmos) as it seems to have everything needed including crossover electronics, etc., so I'd just need to do the woodworking and a bit of soldering. I have a home built sub already (8") so probably could put that off a little, but eventually would like to build out a good 12" or so with a better speaker (mine was a 8" car Kicker speaker, so not exactly designed for home audio, but it still sounds pretty good to me).

 

[Chaos Commish]

 looking at the X-LS Encore x 2 (front / back L/R) and the X-CS Encore center and maybe the X-Bravo for Atmos)

Depending on the sub(s) they'll handily outperform the Klipsch deal from Costco. Like every speaker project I've finished, whether following something at diyaudio or using a company like gr-research, the effort was to design cabinets and crossovers to get the most from budget drivers. Gr is using Peerless woofers and tweeters, lowish middle-class gear. Likely some mild distortion issues. Klipsch drivers in this range are nothing special either.

I've used Peerless TC9s in a few builds with great near field results for PC. A $170 2.1 build is connected to this pc. Stunning audio quality in the sweet spot. This set up's been dubbed a FAST system (full-range assisted subwoofer technology). All the rage at diyaudio for awhile. For my ears it's perfect. Better than much costlier gear. 

They're Karlsonators. I've built a few variations and a few different two way projects similar to gr-research's. There must be over a hundred builds in that old Karlsonator thread. When some upgraded to upper middle class drivers, the results were nearly high end hi fi. Blew my builds away for an extra $50-100. Just food for thought, better drivers equal better results.

 Somewhere in those hundreds of pages is me and the project creator discussing HT applications for his Karlsonators. Never happened because of my next post. But we've been chatting about it and other ideas in dms for a few days. So now I have a few HT builds I would love, and I'm making space for one.  I ordered pretty high end drivers that should perform in various cabinets we discussed. They were too good a deal to pass up. 

 

[Chaos Commish]

Definitely have an interest in that HT speaker project.

At the time I was referring to Voight Pipes. My plan for a couple years has been two of those beasts as mains. They're 6'8"s tall. That vid is fantastic. Simple plans and instructions in the description. Two mini versions as rears with top firing atmos mounted open baffle into the back of the minis (which still come in at 40"s with 3 inch drivers. The center channel would be a sealed box 12" high, 34 wide, 10 deep. The drivers for this project are timber matched Tang Bands. 3 8 inchers, 6 3 inchers. Just under $600. I've seen the big towers with these drivers selling for $5999. 

I've only built smallish bookshelf type speakers, and I've always been jealous of pics of rooms with seriously big speaker furniture. Finishing them professionally may be more important than putting them together. 

I just ordered 3 Alpair 12pw and 6 Alpair 7p. Even better than the Tang Bands. Also just about $600. They would work great in the Voight Pipes. Obviously, I am all in on full range drivers. They're just better to my ears. This short discussion pretty much sums me up from the pro FR side.

As mentioned I've been talking to smarter builders than me and the Voights have serious competition. The Double Horn Ben is the frontrunner at the moment. Pic. Making minis for the rear will be interesting. Lots of math to do it right. But my favorite part of these is a 6 footer would lie horizontal in front of the wide screen serving as a center channel. That's some major speaker furniture. And supposedly they put out incredible detailed sound. 

 

[Maelstrom]

At the time I was referring to Voight Pipes. ... That vid is fantastic.

I have seen that video, it has a ton of useful information and interesting audio designs. That said, those kind of speakers are WAY too big for my room / setup. I was maybe looking at some floor standing ones, but just don't think I can justify the room for them (and honestly, it's a smallish room, it doesn't need the bigger speakers either, from a area perspective). So pretty set on bookshelf speakers now. One other wrinkle is that my bookshelves are enclosed but that's where the speakers have to go, so for example, the GR-Research kit is back ported, and I may want front-ports because of that, or even sealed (I'll have a sub with them, so don't really need the extra depth from a port, although I know that's not the only reason for it). Still looking at the X-LS Encore, but may start playing around with the software to see how much it changes with a slot port in the front instead of back port. And whether it'd work sideways instead of vertical.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I have seen that video, it has a ton of useful information and interesting audio designs. That said, those kind of speakers are WAY too big for my room / setup. I was maybe looking at some floor standing ones, but just don't think I can justify the room for them (and honestly, it's a smallish room, it doesn't need the bigger speakers either, from a area perspective). So pretty set on bookshelf speakers now. One other wrinkle is that my bookshelves are enclosed but that's where the speakers have to go, so for example, the GR-Research kit is back ported, and I may want front-ports because of that, or even sealed (I'll have a sub with them, so don't really need the extra depth from a port, although I know that's not the only reason for it). Still looking at the X-LS Encore, but may start playing around with the software to see how much it changes with a slot port in the front instead of back port. And whether it'd work sideways instead of vertical.

Well, I'm sure you've read enough to know rear ports' proximity to walls is heavily debated. I guess 2 times the port diameter is considered good enough distance, but some say 2 feet. My personal experience with some decent monitors was boomy mids and chuffy lows if too close to the wall. They needed a good 18 inches, but not all do. I'd see what other gr-research builders have to say. No... actually for your placement I would build front ported just to be sure there's no issues. 

DIY Sound Groups Volt 6s have great reviews for HT. Slick coax design. 8x8 cabinets. Higher end drivers. They only ship with the baffle, so the sides, back, top, and bottom are on you. Really simple though. The atmos fit in small boxes for that driver. Everything else has the front port built in. Right at the upper end of your budget, but very sensitive, crazy excursion, capable of getting very loud very clean, and at normal volumes very easy on your amp. 

My Alpairs are here. I'm going to take all the time I need to decide what to do, but the current furniture in my big tv room has to go. The plan is TV, AVR, wire in the walls and speakers first. Then whatever furniture works. Probably just a couch and coffee table. So instead of placing speakers in the existing room, I'll design the room for the speakers.

Also I'm building these out of foam core. Protractor, razor, bread knife and glue - all I need for the making the cabinets and about a fifth the price of plywood, feather light, and seem to sound as good or better. If all goes well, prime them and spray them with several coats of piano black.

 

[belljr]

Any of you guys rolling dual sub.

I've been sitting here with a sub in my cart for a week now not sure if I really should pull the trigger and piss off the wife for spending the money

 

[Hawks64]

Any of you guys rolling dual sub.

I've been sitting here with a sub in my cart for a week now not sure if I really should pull the trigger and piss off the wife for spending the money

 

[belljr]

Did you notice a big difference?

 

[Hawks64]

Did you notice a big difference?

Well it was a part of replacing the whole speaker set so I can't comment if the duals are better than the old because it all sounds better. My guess is that you're going to increase the amount of bass you hear, especially if it's identical to your existing sub. If it's not it might wind up giving you deeper / better extension in what you hear.

 

[belljr]

Well it was a part of replacing the whole speaker set so I can't comment if the duals are better than the old because it all sounds better. My guess is that you're going to increase the amount of bass you hear, especially if it's identical to your existing sub. If it's not it might wind up giving you deeper / better extension in what you hear.

Yep looking at the indentical sub

 

[Hawks64]

Yep looking at the indentical sub

It'll improve your bass for sure, how much is going to be room dependent. IE if you have the existing in a corner or close it enhances the bass.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Good explanation of why two are better than one

I've used four for awhile.

If your amp or avr has outputs for two subs it's nothing to split those signals into four as long as you're running powered subs. I learned a lot messing with configurations. As the article explains just adding a second sub practically eliminates room mode issues. Just need to play with placement. I also found running different subs, not identical, improved the sound significantly. A pricey 16"er handled the thunder, explosions, etc. while a 10"er and a couple 8.5"ers kept things crystal clear fast and tight. Smaller subs are often more musical. Combining them can be pretty awesome. 

 

[Klimtology]

I've been wanting to upgrade my system for a long time now.

My system currently consists of a pair of B&W 630's, an old Denon 50 watt reciever (DRA-550) from the mid 80's,  and a Marantz 5004 cd player.  I'm pretty happy with all three.

I'm looking to get into vinyl and The Project Debut Carbon turntable was recommended.  I listened to it but wasn't amazed by it. So I sent it back.

I then called my local audio store and the salesman said that if the system sounds good with cds but not with the turntable then the weak link is probably the phono pre amp.

So, he recommended the NAD C388 integrated amp which has the added benefit of more power (150 watts per channel) and bluetooth as well (something I definitely want).  He did qualify it by saying that reciever/amp technology hasn't changed much over the years.

He also recommended an upgrade of the turntable cartridge to the Sumiko Rainier.

Just thinking out loud.  I'd be open to adding a bluetooth and a new phono preamp to the Denon, but I'm not sure if that would be better.

TIA

 

[jwb]

I've been wanting to upgrade my system for a long time now.

My system currently consists of a pair of B&W 630's, an old Denon 50 watt reciever (DRA-550) from the mid 80's,  and a Marantz 5004 cd player.  I'm pretty happy with all three.

I'm looking to get into vinyl and The Project Debut Carbon turntable was recommended.  I listened to it but wasn't amazed by it. So I sent it back.

I then called my local audio store and the salesman said that if the system sounds good with cds but not with the turntable then the weak link is probably the phono pre amp.

So, he recommended the NAD C388 integrated amp which has the added benefit of more power (150 watts per channel) and bluetooth as well (something I definitely want).  He did qualify it by saying that reciever/amp technology hasn't changed much over the years.

He also recommended an upgrade of the turntable cartridge to the Sumiko Rainier.

Just thinking out loud.  I'd be open to adding a bluetooth and a new phono preamp to the Denon, but I'm not sure if that would be better.

TIA

The Debut Carbon is fairly well regarded as an entry level turntable. It probably wasn't the issue.

I would agree that of all pieces of the audio chain, 2 channel amp technology has seen the least amount of change. That said, any amp from the 80's that is unrestored will not perform as well today. 

If you are happy with your B&W's, that amp you are looking at kind of outkicks the coverage. I'd look at some of the Marantz's, like the PM7000N . 

 

[Klimtology]

The Debut Carbon is fairly well regarded as an entry level turntable. It probably wasn't the issue.

I would agree that of all pieces of the audio chain, 2 channel amp technology has seen the least amount of change. That said, any amp from the 80's that is unrestored will not perform as well today. 

If you are happy with your B&W's, that amp you are looking at kind of outkicks the coverage. I'd look at some of the Marantz's, like the PM7000N . 

Good info here. Thank You.

 

[Klimtology]

Anyone have any other recommendations?

TIA

 

[Klimtology]

Hey, 

Another question:  Would it make more sense to buy an all in one amp that includes a bluetooth/streaming etc and phono pre amp or buy them separately?

 

[jwb]

Hey, 

Another question:  Would it make more sense to buy an all in one amp that includes a bluetooth/streaming etc and phono pre amp or buy them separately?

I personally like fewer links in the audio chain. That said, I do use a small bluetooth receiver for an integrated amp (Yamaha As801) that doesn't have internal bluetooth - it works fine with my ipad/spotify. But all else being equal, I'd prefer internal.

Assuming a phono stage is part of the amp, any modern integrated amp you buy now that's north of, say, $700 should have a decent phono stage.    

 

[Klimtology]

I personally like fewer links in the audio chain. That said, I do use a small bluetooth receiver for an integrated amp (Yamaha As801) that doesn't have internal bluetooth - it works fine with my ipad/spotify. But all else being equal, I'd prefer internal.

Assuming a phono stage is part of the amp, any modern integrated amp you buy now that's north of, say, $700 should have a decent phono stage.    

Cool. Thanks jwb

 

[belljr]

Second sub 

:activated:



Do I need to do anything special when I run audyssey?

 

[Da Guru]

 Does anyone know the best sounding speaker to replace an echo dot that is compatible?  Looking for something with more volume and better sound for a bigger room.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

What's the intent of this speaker - what are you planning on playing through it?

 

[jwb]

 Does anyone know the best sounding speaker to replace an echo dot that is compatible?  Looking for something with more volume and better sound for a bigger room.

Sonos makes decent stuff. The Sonos One is a pretty nice sounding speaker for not a whole lot of $.

 

[Hawks64]

Second sub 

:activated:



Do I need to do anything special when I run audyssey?

Nope you shouldn't.

 

[Hawks64]

 Does anyone know the best sounding speaker to replace an echo dot that is compatible?  Looking for something with more volume and better sound for a bigger room.

x-posting my response from the other thread since you didn't answer my questions from that response.

You're looking for an Alexa enabled speaker? Assuming since it's a dot that it doesn't have a mobile requirement.

Budget?

Personally would look at Sonos (using your dot for voice commands), Heos by Denon, Marshall Stanmore II or just go Amazon and get the Echo Studio and maybe pair it with the Echo Sub. I use an Echo Show 10" with the sub in my kitchen and it sounds really good for what it is.

 

[Da Guru]

x-posting my response from the other thread since you didn't answer my questions from that response.

You're looking for an Alexa enabled speaker? Assuming since it's a dot that it doesn't have a mobile requirement.

Budget?

Personally would look at Sonos (using your dot for voice commands), Heos by Denon, Marshall Stanmore II or just go Amazon and get the Echo Studio and maybe pair it with the Echo Sub. I use an Echo Show 10" with the sub in my kitchen and it sounds really good for what it is.

Yes, Alexa.    This is for my daughters garage when she has parties, so looking for maybe 200.00 or less.   Just want an upgrade for the Dot.  Does not have be top of the line.  

Thanks

 

[Hawks64]

Yes, Alexa.    This is for my daughters garage when she has parties, so looking for maybe 200.00 or less.   Just want an upgrade for the Dot.  Does not have be top of the line.  

Thanks

Under 200 I'd go with the Echo Studio then.

 

[Klimtology]

I have a really dumb question. Why are tube amplifiers with low wattage (ex. 20 watts per channel) generally as good or better than SS amps with higher wattage (100+watts per channel). How are they able to power my B& W's for example (Sensitivity: 91dB)? I guess not all watts are created equal. I've always wondered about this an haven't heard an explanation that makes sense to me

TIA

 

[Hawks64]

I have a really dumb question. Why are tube amplifiers with low wattage (ex. 20 watts per channel) generally as good or better than SS amps with higher wattage (100+watts per channel). How are they able to power my B& W's for example (Sensitivity: 91dB)? I guess not all watts are created equal. I've always wondered about this an haven't heard an explanation that makes sense to me

TIA

It's that plus no regulations on how you report watts/channel so the reporting is loose and non-standard.