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*** Official Russia vs. Ukraine Discussion - Invasion has begun *** (4 Viewers)

Tom Servo said:
First, I want to thank @Jayrod for starting and helping people mind their p's and q's in here.  It's probably a daunting task.  You da man. :thumbup:   Also mad props to @massraider for his contributions.

My real intent here is to find out if there are children's charities operating on the ground.  If anyone has any links, would you please post them?  In a situation where I feel a need to contribute, I'd like to do what I can.  Thanks.
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Save The Children has a Ukraine crisis relief fund

Four more here

you're a good man TS

 
Saw a report on Reddit (take with a grain of salt) this morning that they are commuting sentences for Ukrainian prisoners who have prior military experience and are willing to fight.

So imagine, all the big ballsy stuff we've seen these people pulling off the last week. Then taking the worst of the toughest SOB's and letting them run amok. I see your Chechen assassins and raise you a Ukrainian sentenced to life.

 
DA RAIDERS said:
It’s startling frankly. I grew up in the Cold War era. I can’t remember an event this polarizing, that had so much unanimous and crystal clear support.  There’s very little double speak going on. The truth is being spoken. It’s spooky weird and awesome. 
 

For Sweden and Switzerland to stray away from neutrality has never happened in my lifetime. 
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I think Putin's forays into sovereign European countries to murder his enemies is coming back to haunt him. 

 
beer 30 said:
Saw a report on Reddit (take with a grain of salt) this morning that they are commuting sentences for Ukrainian prisoners who have prior military experience and are willing to fight.
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We did this in WWII.  Guys who were on death row or facing very long sentences were released to carry out high-risk missions deep inside Nazi Germany.  Notable figures included Jim Brown, Telly Savales, Charles Bronson, and Lee Marvin.

 
Hawks64 said:
Please don't. This thread has been incredibly informative, and for folks like me who loathe the PSF, we won't even think about going over there and contributing to it. 
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Understood. It's up to you folks. 

 
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The Swiss taking a side is not really all that noteworthy.  The Panama papers and other similar items forced them to take a lot of actions that moved them away from the mysterious banking overlords that they were known as.  

I think you could argue at least initially that having a neutral party like this even if they aren't truly neutral helps in a negotiation, and this symbolic act might hurt long term but who knows.   

 
culdeus said:
The Swiss taking a side is not really all that noteworthy.  The Panama papers and other similar items forced them to take a lot of actions that moved them away from the mysterious banking overlords that they were known as.  

I think you could argue at least initially that having a neutral party like this even if they aren't truly neutral helps in a negotiation, and this symbolic act might hurt long term but who knows.   
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Yeah, it was just symbolic.  Hopefully the world doesn't need a neutral party for negotiations anytime soon after this mess.

 
Jayrod said:
Yeah, it was just symbolic.  Hopefully the world doesn't need a neutral party for negotiations anytime soon after this mess.
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I mean it's nice to have.  Sort of like an oyster knife.  You have one, but odds are you never need it and just get someone else to shuck your bivalves.  

 
I will once again re-iterate that the political forum thread is really good, and I can’t stand that place and never, ever visit. Lots of good info and links. Every now and then somebody comes in and bangs the Biden/Trump drum but they’re told to beat it pretty quick. You should check it out if you’re trying to stay up on this topic imo. 

 
Capella said:
I will once again re-iterate that the political forum thread is really good, and I can’t stand that place and never, ever visit. Lots of good info and links. Every now and then somebody comes in and bangs the Biden/Trump drum but they’re told to beat it pretty quick. You should check it out if you’re trying to stay up on this topic imo. 
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Thanks I thought that thread had gotten moved to the free for all. I see now we have two threads cause people can't get along. Very ironic we are talking about  people trying to find peace in a time of war. But even at the most basic level on a football board we can't even agree to one thread where we can play nice. 

 
Jayrod said:
There are now 2 separate reports of mayors in Eastern Ukraine cooperating with Russian invaders and now being charged with treason by the Ukrainian government.

Kupyansk mayor, Hennadiy Mazehora - town of over 27,000 about 25 miles East of Kharkiv

Pivdennyi mayor, Oleksandr Briukhanov - small port just outside of Odessa
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So do you think these mayors were cooperating for personal benefit?  Or to save their towns from getting destroyed?  Maybe both?  I like the swift action. I hope they get them through trial and charged immediately, to make examples out of them. 

 
DA RAIDERS said:
So do you think these mayors were cooperating for personal benefit?  Or to save their towns from getting destroyed?  Maybe both?  I like the swift action. I hope they get them through trial and charged immediately, to make examples out of them. 
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For my part, I would just say its pretty difficult for any of us to sit in judgment regarding the actions of a mayor of a town in Eastern Ukraine.

 
serious bidness

@DLSpencer10: World Curling Federation intends to boot Russia from upcoming world championships, including women's in Prince George, B.C. in March, in response to invasion of Ukraine. #curling

 
JaxBill said:
serious bidness

@DLSpencer10: World Curling Federation intends to boot Russia from upcoming world championships, including women's in Prince George, B.C. in March, in response to invasion of Ukraine. #curling
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What are folk's thoughts on this kind of sporting sanctions?  I feel like it punishes the wrong people - but I also get 100% the need to do everything you can to mute Russia - including at sporting events.  

I ask also in light of all the NHL banter between Dominik Hasek and his calls to ban Ovechkin and all Russian NHL'ers - I get his point, and Ovie has been linked to Putin a lot, but I don't personally think it's fair either.  As probably the biggest sports star in the country, I don't think someone like Ovie could openly be against Putin and still have family or ties to Russia.  His hand is forced, as are a lot of other high-profile Russian athletes.

 
Fat Nick said:
What are folk's thoughts on this kind of sporting sanctions?  I feel like it punishes the wrong people - but I also get 100% the need to do everything you can to mute Russia - including at sporting events.  

I ask also in light of all the NHL banter between Dominik Hasek and his calls to ban Ovechkin and all Russian NHL'ers - I get his point, and Ovie has been linked to Putin a lot, but I don't personally think it's fair either.  As probably the biggest sports star in the country, I don't think someone like Ovie could openly be against Putin and still have family or ties to Russia.  His hand is forced, as are a lot of other high-profile Russian athletes.
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It's definitely not simple but I tend to agree on banning anyone competing for team russia in an international competition. I also agree with moving any events that were supposed to take place in russia. For me it gets very difficult to agree on banning a russian citizen competing in a team sport like the NHL.

Since you brought up Ovie, I think he certainly could have immigrated to another country if he wanted to, but he didn't and has openly supported and hung out with Putin. Not a clue what you could or should do to him personally for that. Feels like I wouldn't want to play on a team with the guy, but to outright ban him from the league is a bit too much IMO.

 
As much as Ovie has been buddies with Putin in the past, he's been openly calling for Russia to cease hostilities with Ukraine. I don't know why the league would boot him for that.

 
BREAKING: And wow!!! After BP, the deluge. Shell announces it's exiting all its joint-ventures with Gazprom, including its 27.5% stake in the Sakhalin-2 LNG facility. Shell carries those JV at $3 billion valuation on its books, and it's warning of impartments #Ukraine
 

With BP and Shell leaving the country, I don't see how others can stay: the pressure on Exxon, Total and oil traders like Trafigura and Vitol (and Glencore in metals) is going to increase massively. #Ukraine

https://twitter.com/javierblas/status/1498354014282555397?s=10

 
Fat Nick said:
I ask also in light of all the NHL banter between Dominik Hasek and his calls to ban Ovechkin and all Russian NHL'ers - I get his point, and Ovie has been linked to Putin a lot, but I don't personally think it's fair either.  As probably the biggest sports star in the country, I don't think someone like Ovie could openly be against Putin and still have family or ties to Russia.  His hand is forced, as are a lot of other high-profile Russian athletes.
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I don't mind seeing sports teams isolated from the rest of the world.  Banning NHLers like Ovechkin and Geno Malkin (who also has multiple photos with Putin) doesn't really help.  I saw something the other day that kinda explains my POV: Support your Ukrainian business, but don't take your anger out on the Russian business.  The woman selling pelmeni didn't invade the Ukraine.

 
Tom Servo said:
I don't mind seeing sports teams isolated from the rest of the world.  Banning NHLers like Ovechkin and Geno Malkin (who also has multiple photos with Putin) doesn't really help.  I saw something the other day that kinda explains my POV: Support your Ukrainian business, but don't take your anger out on the Russian business.  The woman selling pelmeni didn't invade the Ukraine.
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I can see cancelling sports where the team is a National Team as that is basically controlled by the county.  Individuals though?  I would not preclude them from anything unless there is some governmental connection or open support of what is going on.

 
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Hawks64 said:
It's definitely not simple but I tend to agree on banning anyone competing for team russia in an international competition. I also agree with moving any events that were supposed to take place in russia. For me it gets very difficult to agree on banning a russian citizen competing in a team sport like the NHL.

Since you brought up Ovie, I think he certainly could have immigrated to another country if he wanted to, but he didn't and has openly supported and hung out with Putin. Not a clue what you could or should do to him personally for that. Feels like I wouldn't want to play on a team with the guy, but to outright ban him from the league is a bit too much IMO.
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I said this on like Page 4, but would anyone blink if IOC said US gets gold and Russia gets DQ from team skating?

 
Feel like this is the stage in Civilization when you underestimated the power of city walls and just send the stack of doom you wanted to send at Ghandi instead.  

 
culdeus said:
Yeah, and alot of videos out there now showing the captured equipment is in really bad shape.  UKA trying to requisition these APC and can't get them started even with fuel.  Finding food expired in 2015 made in 2010.  Things like that.  
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Hopefully this isn't part of the strategy -- sending all of the old cold war stuff in first, and then follow-up with their actual capabilities.  It feels like they are holding back.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Hopefully this isn't part of the strategy -- sending all of the old cold war stuff in first, and then follow-up with their actual capabilities.  It feels like they are holding back.
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Yea I don't think that's going to be the case. They're just not that well equipped. I think that is much more the norm than the exception.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Wow.  You should hear the Russian at the UN Security Council right now.
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I saw that, we need to find a transcript. 

No idea how much proof people need that these guys have completely bought into their own propaganda, cannot be trusted, and nothing can be put past them. Comic book-level evil. 

 
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