***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (7 Viewers)

[Slapdash]

Is he actually talking about changing the offside rule beyond counting passive attackers as offside?

 

[Eephus]

You'd end up with defences sitting much deeper, which would make the high-tempo pressing game that has been evolved at the top level over the last 25 years almost impossible to play. I couldn't say for sure that it'd be a bad thing, but I am certainly very much against any idea like that.

FIFA should beware the law of unintended consequences. Tactics evolve quickly to exploit any rule change. An offside line would likely discourage defenders from pushing up. It could also lead to more hoofing the ball up route one which isn't particularly attractive soccer.

 

[El Floppo]

Beckenbauer's task force suggests offside rule change

ZURICH (Reuters) -- A FIFA task force headed by former Germany captain Franz Beckenbauer has suggested changing the offside law and abolishing red cards for less serious offences in the penalty area.

...

Anyone old enough to remember the blue line in the NASL? Wonder how that would work now.

I went to NASL games when I was very young but did not understand the game well enough to figure out how it affected the game. In theory I love the 35 yard marker because I would like any rule that might unlock the offense a little more.

I understand Beckenbauers thoughts on this perspective rule change/clarification but I don't like it because it leans towards helping the defense which needs no more help in this sport.

I've got no problem with the current passive/active off-sides rule. I do agree with him about the triple whammy with the red-card/pk in the box thing. I prefer the old red-card rules for bad tackles, punching or extreme unsportsmanship. I don't believe fans actually want to see teams go down a man so easily and disrupt/ruin what could otherwise be a good game.I turned on FSC last week and they had a 'derby classic' game between Cantona's United and... god knows who's City from the mid 90s. These guys were flying into eachother with plenty of nasty challenges- mostly from the back, or with studs showing- that would normally draw red or at least yellow now, but were only fouls back then. And the game moved right along with chances for both sides and nobody really complained.

Also, despite the presence of far more continental players for both sides than I remember in the EPL back then, guys would get tackled roughly and just get back up without the histrionics or #####ing to the ref. Does anybody have a clear idea of at what point every tackle (in England) became Pearl Harbor? Seems like it's been gradual this century, but in full force over the last couple of years. Hell- it used to be that if you dived/embellished or otherwise acted like most of these ####### that a defender or two would get in your face. Now it's just accepted as part of the game. Sucks.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Is he actually talking about changing the offside rule beyond counting passive attackers as offside?

From his wording it doesn't sound like it. Sounds like he is simply going to try to bring back the old offside rule where there was no distinction. This should mean a slight increase in offside calls if the rule change goes through.

 

[NewlyRetired]

You'd end up with defences sitting much deeper, which would make the high-tempo pressing game that has been evolved at the top level over the last 25 years almost impossible to play. I couldn't say for sure that it'd be a bad thing, but I am certainly very much against any idea like that.

FIFA should beware the law of unintended consequences. Tactics evolve quickly to exploit any rule change. An offside line would likely discourage defenders from pushing up. It could also lead to more hoofing the ball up route one which isn't particularly attractive soccer.

Why would more space in the midfield lead to route one tactics?

 

[Slapdash]

Is he actually talking about changing the offside rule beyond counting passive attackers as offside?

From his wording it doesn't sound like it. Sounds like he is simply going to try to bring back the old offside rule where there was no distinction. This should mean a slight increase in offside calls if the rule change goes through.

Cool, no big complaints there. Changing the rules the way others are talking would be awful.

 

[El Floppo]

You'd end up with defences sitting much deeper, which would make the high-tempo pressing game that has been evolved at the top level over the last 25 years almost impossible to play. I couldn't say for sure that it'd be a bad thing, but I am certainly very much against any idea like that.

FIFA should beware the law of unintended consequences. Tactics evolve quickly to exploit any rule change. An offside line would likely discourage defenders from pushing up. It could also lead to more hoofing the ball up route one which isn't particularly attractive soccer.

Why would more space in the midfield lead to route one tactics?

I think that's true of completely ditching the offsides rule, where you'd end up with guys camped out in front of both goals (offense and defense) which then stretches the middle of the field so that balls would get played more directly- IMO. With a "blue-line"... just moving that cluster of guys up away from teh box might help open up the field but maintain some spacing in the MF. Dunno. I also was too young and tactically naive to know what I was looking at in the NASL days.

 

[Eephus]

You'd end up with defences sitting much deeper, which would make the high-tempo pressing game that has been evolved at the top level over the last 25 years almost impossible to play. I couldn't say for sure that it'd be a bad thing, but I am certainly very much against any idea like that.

FIFA should beware the law of unintended consequences. Tactics evolve quickly to exploit any rule change. An offside line would likely discourage defenders from pushing up. It could also lead to more hoofing the ball up route one which isn't particularly attractive soccer.

Why would more space in the midfield lead to route one tactics?

Forwards will cheat up to the blue line and there will be more speculative long balls fired in their direction. I'm an old Wimbledon fan so I'm not opposed to a little route one, but only in moderation.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

You'd end up with defences sitting much deeper, which would make the high-tempo pressing game that has been evolved at the top level over the last 25 years almost impossible to play. I couldn't say for sure that it'd be a bad thing, but I am certainly very much against any idea like that.

FIFA should beware the law of unintended consequences. Tactics evolve quickly to exploit any rule change. An offside line would likely discourage defenders from pushing up. It could also lead to more hoofing the ball up route one which isn't particularly attractive soccer.

FIFA isn't considering an offside line rule, right? I think that was just raised here. I would be happy to see the passive offside rule scrapped. Seems to me it is great on paper and in concept, but a disaster when implemented into live games. I agree with Der Kaiser on this - its too complicated in the execution.

 

[NewlyRetired]

You'd end up with defences sitting much deeper, which would make the high-tempo pressing game that has been evolved at the top level over the last 25 years almost impossible to play. I couldn't say for sure that it'd be a bad thing, but I am certainly very much against any idea like that.

FIFA should beware the law of unintended consequences. Tactics evolve quickly to exploit any rule change. An offside line would likely discourage defenders from pushing up. It could also lead to more hoofing the ball up route one which isn't particularly attractive soccer.

FIFA isn't considering an offside line rule, right? I think that was just raised here. I would be happy to see the passive offside rule scrapped. Seems to me it is great on paper and in concept, but a disaster when implemented into live games. I agree with Der Kaiser on this - its too complicated in the execution.

They are not considering an offside line.Two conversations got jumbled up here:1) FIFA is considering removing passive offside2) A general question came up about the offside line the old NASL used.

 

[The Gator]

It could also lead to more hoofing the ball up route one which isn't particularly attractive soccer.

tasker> hey

 

[D in the D]

650+ pages into a thread is probably no place for a newbie, but oh well.

Background: I am a sports fan (football, hockey, baseball) that is trying to get into this sport. I love all the dynamics of the sport (worldwide appeal, the various forms of competition..league..worldwide...etc., fan passion, player movement, etc) and slowly learning to appreciate the actual competition aspect of it, if that makes sense. In basic terms, i love the soap opera aspect of the game and am learning to appreciate the game itself.

If there are no objections, i would like to toss a newbie question or two out on a random basis.

Anyway, i was glancing at the Man U roster the other day and saw they had nearly 40 players on the roster. Do they loan that many players out worldwide or is it like football prior to roster limits where the teams would hoard talent?

 

[NewlyRetired]

Anyway, i was glancing at the Man U roster the other day and saw they had nearly 40 players on the roster. Do they loan that many players out worldwide or is it like football prior to roster limits where the teams would hoard talent?

Welcome to the thread. Throw out as many questions as you like. Don't be shy. You actually answered your own question and both things occur. Loans are common in soccer especially for young players who are not ready for the big stage to make sure they get playing time. But you other point of hoarding talent is egregious amongst the big clubs in Europe. Man City could put out two different teams that would be better than 99+% of the worlds teams. Personally I don't think this is good for the game but there are no rules against it.

 

[El Floppo]

650+ pages into a thread is probably no place for a newbie, but oh well. Background: I am a sports fan (football, hockey, baseball) that is trying to get into this sport. I love all the dynamics of the sport (worldwide appeal, the various forms of competition..league..worldwide...etc., fan passion, player movement, etc) and slowly learning to appreciate the actual competition aspect of it, if that makes sense. In basic terms, i love the soap opera aspect of the game and am learning to appreciate the game itself.If there are no objections, i would like to toss a newbie question or two out on a random basis.Anyway, i was glancing at the Man U roster the other day and saw they had nearly 40 players on the roster. Do they loan that many players out worldwide or is it like football prior to roster limits where the teams would hoard talent?

Yes to all your question. and welcome!The top teams start buying/hoarding talent as young as 12 (probably younger). Those 40 players probably include a reserve team (there's a reserve league for guys outside the top 18 guys who dress and are available for each game) with players moving up and down depending on the competition- lots of Cups to play in (FA, Carling, Euro, etc) or getting loanded out to other teams like you mentioned.You'll hear a lot of us bemoan a US player's move to Europe for fear that they only see time in practice or with the reserves instead of seeing "A" team action.

 

[El Floppo]

Anyway, i was glancing at the Man U roster the other day and saw they had nearly 40 players on the roster. Do they loan that many players out worldwide or is it like football prior to roster limits where the teams would hoard talent?

Welcome to the thread. Throw out as many questions as you like. Don't be shy. You actually answered your own question and both things occur.

Loans are common in soccer especially for young players who are not ready for the big stage to make sure they get playing time.

But you other point of hoarding talent is egregious amongst the big clubs in Europe. Man City could put out two different teams that would be better than 99+% of the worlds teams. Personally I don't think this is good for the game but there are no rules against it.

I thought that was his point?

 

[El Floppo]

650+ pages into a thread is probably no place for a newbie, but oh well. Background: I am a sports fan (football, hockey, baseball) that is trying to get into this sport. I love all the dynamics of the sport (worldwide appeal, the various forms of competition..league..worldwide...etc., fan passion, player movement, etc) and slowly learning to appreciate the actual competition aspect of it, if that makes sense. In basic terms, i love the soap opera aspect of the game and am learning to appreciate the game itself.If there are no objections, i would like to toss a newbie question or two out on a random basis.Anyway, i was glancing at the Man U roster the other day and saw they had nearly 40 players on the roster. Do they loan that many players out worldwide or is it like football prior to roster limits where the teams would hoard talent?

Yes to all your question. and welcome!The top teams start buying/hoarding talent as young as 12 (probably younger). Those 40 players probably include a reserve team (there's a reserve league for guys outside the top 18 guys who dress and are available for each game) with players moving up and down depending on the competition- lots of Cups to play in (FA, Carling, Euro, etc) or getting loanded out to other teams like you mentioned.You'll hear a lot of us bemoan a US player's move to Europe for fear that they only see time in practice or with the reserves instead of seeing "A" team action.

and I should have mentioned that these teams also have youth academies. A 12 year old isn't going to sign with Manchester United and be in that group of 40 players... they go into the academies, or if they live across the world, are just "owned" until they're ready to make the move.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Anyway, i was glancing at the Man U roster the other day and saw they had nearly 40 players on the roster. Do they loan that many players out worldwide or is it like football prior to roster limits where the teams would hoard talent?

Welcome to the thread. Throw out as many questions as you like. Don't be shy. You actually answered your own question and both things occur.

Loans are common in soccer especially for young players who are not ready for the big stage to make sure they get playing time.

But you other point of hoarding talent is egregious amongst the big clubs in Europe. Man City could put out two different teams that would be better than 99+% of the worlds teams. Personally I don't think this is good for the game but there are no rules against it.

I thought that was his point?

Yes, I was agreeing with him. Did I use the word egregious wrong?

 

[El Floppo]

Anyway, i was glancing at the Man U roster the other day and saw they had nearly 40 players on the roster. Do they loan that many players out worldwide or is it like football prior to roster limits where the teams would hoard talent?

Welcome to the thread. Throw out as many questions as you like. Don't be shy. You actually answered your own question and both things occur.

Loans are common in soccer especially for young players who are not ready for the big stage to make sure they get playing time.

But you other point of hoarding talent is egregious amongst the big clubs in Europe. Man City could put out two different teams that would be better than 99+% of the worlds teams. Personally I don't think this is good for the game but there are no rules against it.

I thought that was his point?

Yes, I was agreeing with him. Did I use the word egregious wrong?

I might have gone with And instead of But. I don't know any more... I skim this stuff and throw a bunch of crap on a wall and hope some of it sticks.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Anyway, i was glancing at the Man U roster the other day and saw they had nearly 40 players on the roster. Do they loan that many players out worldwide or is it like football prior to roster limits where the teams would hoard talent?

Welcome to the thread. Throw out as many questions as you like. Don't be shy. You actually answered your own question and both things occur.

Loans are common in soccer especially for young players who are not ready for the big stage to make sure they get playing time.

But you other point of hoarding talent is egregious amongst the big clubs in Europe. Man City could put out two different teams that would be better than 99+% of the worlds teams. Personally I don't think this is good for the game but there are no rules against it.

I thought that was his point?

Yes, I was agreeing with him. Did I use the word egregious wrong?

I might have gone with And instead of But.

English not my first language. I speak better Klingon :(

 

[Eephus]

Anyway, i was glancing at the Man U roster the other day and saw they had nearly 40 players on the roster. Do they loan that many players out worldwide or is it like football prior to roster limits where the teams would hoard talent?

Welcome to the thread. Throw out as many questions as you like. Don't be shy. You actually answered your own question and both things occur.

Loans are common in soccer especially for young players who are not ready for the big stage to make sure they get playing time.

But you other point of hoarding talent is egregious amongst the big clubs in Europe. Man City could put out two different teams that would be better than 99+% of the worlds teams. Personally I don't think this is good for the game but there are no rules against it.

I thought that was his point?

Yes, I was agreeing with him. Did I use the word egregious wrong?

The Premier League mandated a 25 man maximum roster size this season with the stipulation that eight of them had to be "home grown". If a team didn't have eight players who spent three years on a English or Welsh club before age 21, they weren't able to utilize their full compliment of 25.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Anyway, i was glancing at the Man U roster the other day and saw they had nearly 40 players on the roster. Do they loan that many players out worldwide or is it like football prior to roster limits where the teams would hoard talent?

Welcome to the thread. Throw out as many questions as you like. Don't be shy. You actually answered your own question and both things occur.

Loans are common in soccer especially for young players who are not ready for the big stage to make sure they get playing time.

But you other point of hoarding talent is egregious amongst the big clubs in Europe. Man City could put out two different teams that would be better than 99+% of the worlds teams. Personally I don't think this is good for the game but there are no rules against it.

I thought that was his point?

Yes, I was agreeing with him. Did I use the word egregious wrong?

The Premier League mandated a 25 man maximum roster size this season with the stipulation that eight of them had to be "home grown". If a team didn't have eight players who spent three years on a English or Welsh club before age 21, they weren't able to utilize their full compliment of 25.

I like that. That seems to be a good size, especially for the numerous competitions. That is smaller roster size than MLS uses which can be up to 30 (although some of those slots are developmental players).

 

[The Z Machine]

Yes to all your question. and welcome!The top teams start buying/hoarding talent as young as 12 (probably younger). Those 40 players probably include a reserve team (there's a reserve league for guys outside the top 18 guys who dress and are available for each game) with players moving up and down depending on the competition- lots of Cups to play in (FA, Carling, Euro, etc) or getting loanded out to other teams like you mentioned.You'll hear a lot of us bemoan a US player's move to Europe for fear that they only see time in practice or with the reserves instead of seeing "A" team action.

I'll second Floppo's welcome comment. All fans aof the beautiful game are welcome here.To remark on the rest of Flops's comment... I will say that not all leagues work the way described above, with a separate reserve side playing in a separate reserve league. In Spain (and elsewhere I think) the "reserve" side is called the often called the "B" team, and plays in the lower level league against "regular" competition. For example, Barcelona "B" came in 2nd in the 2nd Spanish division (aka "la segunda"), which means that it qualified for "promotion" where teams move from one league level to the next. However, since a single club cannot field two teams in any one level of competition, Barcelona B still plays in the 2nd division.The promotion/relegation thing is a really great aspect to club soccer, and something that's missing in American sports. Although European soccer doesn't have playoffs, so that's something missing as well.In general, European soccer is actually much less egalitarian than US sports. The top teams have top talent year after year. They have the finances to back championship runs in every competition year after year, whereas the minnows of even the upper division can really only hope for a mid-level finish every year. There's no draft or salary cap, so it basically comes down to financing, recruiting, and training the best talent.

 

[The Z Machine]

Anyway, i was glancing at the Man U roster the other day and saw they had nearly 40 players on the roster. Do they loan that many players out worldwide or is it like football prior to roster limits where the teams would hoard talent?

Welcome to the thread. Throw out as many questions as you like. Don't be shy. You actually answered your own question and both things occur.

Loans are common in soccer especially for young players who are not ready for the big stage to make sure they get playing time.

But you other point of hoarding talent is egregious amongst the big clubs in Europe. Man City could put out two different teams that would be better than 99+% of the worlds teams. Personally I don't think this is good for the game but there are no rules against it.

I thought that was his point?

Yes, I was agreeing with him. Did I use the word egregious wrong?

The Premier League mandated a 25 man maximum roster size this season with the stipulation that eight of them had to be "home grown". If a team didn't have eight players who spent three years on a English or Welsh club before age 21, they weren't able to utilize their full compliment of 25.

I like that. That seems to be a good size, especially for the numerous competitions. That is smaller roster size than MLS uses which can be up to 30 (although some of those slots are developmental players).

I'm fairly certain that teams can have different rosters for European competition / domestic competition. Also, players under-21 don't count against that roster cap.

 

[El Floppo]

good stuff Z and Eephus- I knew none of that about the EPL rosters.

 

[Eephus]

Anyway, i was glancing at the Man U roster the other day and saw they had nearly 40 players on the roster. Do they loan that many players out worldwide or is it like football prior to roster limits where the teams would hoard talent?

Welcome to the thread. Throw out as many questions as you like. Don't be shy. You actually answered your own question and both things occur.

Loans are common in soccer especially for young players who are not ready for the big stage to make sure they get playing time.

But you other point of hoarding talent is egregious amongst the big clubs in Europe. Man City could put out two different teams that would be better than 99+% of the worlds teams. Personally I don't think this is good for the game but there are no rules against it.

I thought that was his point?

Yes, I was agreeing with him. Did I use the word egregious wrong?

The Premier League mandated a 25 man maximum roster size this season with the stipulation that eight of them had to be "home grown". If a team didn't have eight players who spent three years on a English or Welsh club before age 21, they weren't able to utilize their full compliment of 25.

I like that. That seems to be a good size, especially for the numerous competitions. That is smaller roster size than MLS uses which can be up to 30 (although some of those slots are developmental players).

I'm fairly certain that teams can have different rosters for European competition / domestic competition. Also, players under-21 don't count against that roster cap.

Domestic league: Maximum 25 man roster, minimum 8 home-grown, all U21s don't count against 25 man limitEuropean competition: Maximum 25 man roster (can be different 25 than domestic e.g. Van der Vaart), minimum 8 home-grown, but I don't think the U21 rule applies the same way it does domestically.

 

[The Z Machine]

Domestic league: Maximum 25 man roster, minimum 8 home-grown, all U21s don't count against 25 man limitEuropean competition: Maximum 25 man roster (can be different 25 than domestic e.g. Van der Vaart), minimum 8 home-grown, but I don't think the U21 rule applies the same way it does domestically.

I believe it does. Unless Football Manager 2011 got it wrong...Oh, and D in the D, don't ever play that game if you want to have a life or a wife.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Some MLS tidbits

* Steve Ralston and Jay Heaps have been mentioned as possible candidates for the Revs head coaching job. Most of the fan base would back Ralston and most of the fan base would hate Heaps. Heaps is the current color analyst for the Revs local broadcasts.

* Luke Rogers is out of tomorrow's NY Dallas wild card game. Hopefully this opens up a chance for Agudelo.

 

[El Floppo]

Some MLS tidbits* Steve Ralston and Jay Heaps have been mentioned as possible candidates for the Revs head coaching job. Most of the fan base would back Ralston and most of the fan base would hate Heaps. Heaps is the current color analyst for the Revs local broadcasts. * Luke Rogers is out of tomorrow's NY Dallas wild card game. Hopefully this opens up a chance for Agudelo.

Hopefully for who?I love Juan, but the BullStars offensive shape goes to #### when he's out there. Rogers opens up the field really well, especially for Henry, even if his upside individually is nowhere near Agudelo. But it's a nice luxury to "have to" sub in Agudelo.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Some MLS tidbits* Steve Ralston and Jay Heaps have been mentioned as possible candidates for the Revs head coaching job. Most of the fan base would back Ralston and most of the fan base would hate Heaps. Heaps is the current color analyst for the Revs local broadcasts. * Luke Rogers is out of tomorrow's NY Dallas wild card game. Hopefully this opens up a chance for Agudelo.

Hopefully for who?

Hopefully for a fan of the US Nats like me who does not want to see 18 year olds pulling splinters out of their butts. I realize that NY has done better with Rogers in there but with him out, Juan may have a chance to start. Although in the last game when Henry was out on suspension, Agudelo still didn't start. Richards started up top in place of him.

 

[Spartans Rule]

650+ pages into a thread is probably no place for a newbie, but oh well. Background: I am a sports fan (football, hockey, baseball) that is trying to get into this sport. I love all the dynamics of the sport (worldwide appeal, the various forms of competition..league..worldwide...etc., fan passion, player movement, etc) and slowly learning to appreciate the actual competition aspect of it, if that makes sense. In basic terms, i love the soap opera aspect of the game and am learning to appreciate the game itself.If there are no objections, i would like to toss a newbie question or two out on a random basis.Anyway, i was glancing at the Man U roster the other day and saw they had nearly 40 players on the roster. Do they loan that many players out worldwide or is it like football prior to roster limits where the teams would hoard talent?

Welcome!I was about where you are somewhere around page 300 or so, and this thread definitely helped me get into the game more.

 

[El Floppo]

Some MLS tidbits* Steve Ralston and Jay Heaps have been mentioned as possible candidates for the Revs head coaching job. Most of the fan base would back Ralston and most of the fan base would hate Heaps. Heaps is the current color analyst for the Revs local broadcasts. * Luke Rogers is out of tomorrow's NY Dallas wild card game. Hopefully this opens up a chance for Agudelo.

Hopefully for who?

Hopefully for a fan of the US Nats like me who does not want to see 18 year olds pulling splinters out of their butts. I realize that NY has done better with Rogers in there but with him out, Juan may have a chance to start. Although in the last game when Henry was out on suspension, Agudelo still didn't start. Richards started up top in place of him.

ah- I hear ya.Hmmm... I'm beginning to wonder- two up and comer Nats on the NYRBs who both seem to have gone a bit backwards this year under Backe. Coincidence?and Richards- I wonder if he'll start with Henry... Henry does well with a guy like Rogers who makes good runs and can win the ball. I like Richards, but he's more of an up and down flank player than a guy who makes good, decisive diagonal runs into space IMO. That said- he killed himself against Philly and ran all over the field all game... so ignore me.

 

[LHUCKS]

+1 for hoping that Agudelo gets some PT.

I could care less about the Bulls' shape...all I care about is 2014.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Some MLS tidbits* Steve Ralston and Jay Heaps have been mentioned as possible candidates for the Revs head coaching job. Most of the fan base would back Ralston and most of the fan base would hate Heaps. Heaps is the current color analyst for the Revs local broadcasts. * Luke Rogers is out of tomorrow's NY Dallas wild card game. Hopefully this opens up a chance for Agudelo.

Hopefully for who?

Hopefully for a fan of the US Nats like me who does not want to see 18 year olds pulling splinters out of their butts. I realize that NY has done better with Rogers in there but with him out, Juan may have a chance to start. Although in the last game when Henry was out on suspension, Agudelo still didn't start. Richards started up top in place of him.

ah- I hear ya.Hmmm... I'm beginning to wonder- two up and comer Nats on the NYRBs who both seem to have gone a bit backwards this year under Backe. Coincidence?

Yeah not good. Has not been a good sophomore year for them or for Mwanga either who I expected to take a step forward this year in his development.

 

[El Floppo]

+1 for hoping that Agudelo gets some PT.I could care less about the Bulls' shape...all I care about is 2014.

oh right... and then there's LHucks. capable of taking an idea and making it come across dickish, no matter what the thread.

 

[El Floppo]

and fwiw- part of Agudelo's struggles with the nats are because of his inability to read the game and find the right shape. So if you care about the 2014, you should care about how he plays with others.

 

[NewlyRetired]

+1 for hoping that Agudelo gets some PT.I could care less about the Bulls' shape...all I care about is 2014.

oh right... and then there's LHucks. capable of taking an idea and making it come across dickish, no matter what the thread.

Let's not scare away the new guy on his first day.

 

[LHUCKS]

and fwiw- part of Agudelo's struggles with the nats are because of his inability to read the game and find the right shape. So if you care about the 2014, you should care about how he plays with others.

good point

 

[El Floppo]

+1 for hoping that Agudelo gets some PT.I could care less about the Bulls' shape...all I care about is 2014.

oh right... and then there's LHucks. capable of taking an idea and making it come across dickish, no matter what the thread.

Let's not scare away the new guy on his first day.

then please stop posting, mmmkay?

 

[NewlyRetired]

+1 for hoping that Agudelo gets some PT.I could care less about the Bulls' shape...all I care about is 2014.

oh right... and then there's LHucks. capable of taking an idea and making it come across dickish, no matter what the thread.

Let's not scare away the new guy on his first day.

then please stop posting, mmmkay?

No I won't. Lol

 

[B Maverick]

Carling Cup action today. Arsenal was kind enough to allow Bolton a 1-0 lead before winning 2-1

United took apart division 2 side with a 3-0 win. Vidic and Cleverly played so hopefully United gets back to their winning ways. Berb, Owen and Valencia score.....

 

[B Maverick]

oh and welcome to the new guy. the more the better!

But you may want to announce your allegiances asap....

 

[Christo]

oh and welcome to the new guy. the more the better!But you may want to announce your allegiances asap....

Leave him alone, Devil.

 

[Eephus]

oh and welcome to the new guy. the more the better!But you may want to announce your allegiances asap....

Leave him alone, Devil.

the MUFC bandwagon isn't moving too fast this week

 

[B Maverick]

oh and welcome to the new guy. the more the better!But you may want to announce your allegiances asap....

Leave him alone, Devil.

the MUFC bandwagon isn't moving too fast this week

Christo just wants to make sure he isnt walking alone.....

 

[Mjolnirs]

650+ pages into a thread is probably no place for a newbie, but oh well. Background: I am a sports fan (football, hockey, baseball) that is trying to get into this sport. I love all the dynamics of the sport (worldwide appeal, the various forms of competition..league..worldwide...etc., fan passion, player movement, etc) and slowly learning to appreciate the actual competition aspect of it, if that makes sense. In basic terms, i love the soap opera aspect of the game and am learning to appreciate the game itself.If there are no objections, i would like to toss a newbie question or two out on a random basis.Anyway, i was glancing at the Man U roster the other day and saw they had nearly 40 players on the roster. Do they loan that many players out worldwide or is it like football prior to roster limits where the teams would hoard talent?

Welcome and as others have said, ask away. Just be warned you may get way more than you asked.Also, don't focus simply on the EPL, there's plenty of other soccer out there.

In Spain (and elsewhere I think) the "reserve" side is called the often called the "B" team, and plays in the lower level league against "regular" competition.

It's this way in the Bundesliga as well.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Ok this is strange. Paul Gardner just wrote a scathing article on how the Cosmos are in trouble. The interesting part was the last paragraph. I can't figure out if this is a joke or serious, I think it's serious.

==========

"What next? We wait to find out what impact the latest “ownership group” seeking a New York franchise will have. This one is led by Chuck Blazer, soon to be quitting his job as the Concacaf General Secretary, along with former Cosmos goalkeeper Shep Messing and former New York Jets running back Curtis Martin."

 

[El Floppo]

Ok this is strange. Paul Gardner just wrote a scathing article on how the Cosmos are in trouble. The interesting part was the last paragraph. I can't figure out if this is a joke or serious, I think it's serious.

==========

"What next? We wait to find out what impact the latest “ownership group” seeking a New York franchise will have. This one is led by Chuck Blazer, soon to be quitting his job as the Concacaf General Secretary, along with former Cosmos goalkeeper Shep Messing and former New York Jets running back Curtis Martin."

If true, you'd have to think that Blazer group gets a leg up.So what happened to the Cosmos again? Are they really out of the running? Last we were talking about it, there was a Saudi group buying out shares or something? I took that to mean that the bid was finally serious with some money behind it, but then everybody started talking about it being dead in the water.

And who are the other groups... three, right? There isn't exactly... well... ANY news about this locally

(oops- just googled and found this:

October 12, 2011 ι By BRIAN LEWIS

A day after MLS commissioner Don Garber hosted three potential investors for a second New York expansion team in his box at Red Bull Arena _ and told the press that the New York Cosmos group was not among the trio _ Cosmos vice chairman Terry Byrne followed up with a statement of his own today.

Byrne wanted to make it clear that the Cosmos were still very much interested in and intent on becoming the league’s 20th team. He also said they know getting a stadium deal done is the key _ even if Randall’s Island isn’t feasible _ and they’ll work with other ownership groups to achieve their ultimate goal.

“It’s wonderful that the league continues to support having an MLS team in New York,’’ Byrne said in an email. “We all know the stadium is the linchpin to getting this done. And we have done our own due diligence over the past year, looking at sites for a proposed New York Cosmos team and stadium – and keeping the city and the league abreast of our progress.’’

Queens has always been the primary target, with Flushing meadow Park the most desired location. Garber broached the subject of Randalls Island publicly for the first time at halftime of the U.S.’ 1-0 loss to Ecuador, although he declined to answer the Post’s question about whether that meant an expansion of Icahn Stadium or the construction of a different building, saying “who know?”

Still, despite Randall’s Island being both aesthetically pleasing _ with a breathtaking view of Manhattan and the East river _ and the original home of the Cosmos and Pele in 1975, Byrne said the dearth of public transportation would probably be a deal-breaker and likely make a return to the site impossible.

“Randall's Island has always been our emotional favorite – as the birthplace of The New York Cosmos. However, after conducting a transportation viability study, we found that the infrastructure costs would far outweigh the costs of the stadium itself,’’ said Byrne. “The search continues, and we are looking for suitable sites that are centrally located with public transportation options. Both private and public land is under consideration.’’

When asked about the Cosmos’ involvement, Garber said “I don’t know that they’re involved. They’ve got some things that they’re trying to work out within their ownership group. But as I‘ve said many times, I applaud what they’ve been doing. They’re doing a great job building their brand and when we’re ready to get that team launched and they want to be a part of it, we’ll be happy to talk to them.”

Either way, Garber professed confidence in closing a stadium deal.

“At the end of the day we’ve got to get a stadium built, and I believe we’ll be able to get that done. I feel better about it now than I have at any other point,’’ Garber said.

“If we get a stadium built, we’ll have no problem getting an ownership group for that team. I think it’ll ultimately come to fruition. The question for me is how long is it going to take, how much patience do we have? How many meetings and press conference have we had about a stadium for the MetroStars and the Red Bulls? It takes a long time; but we’ll get it done the way we got (Red Bull Arena) done.”

And that could very well come with the Cosmos partnering with another group.

“We also know that other potential ownership groups are in the picture, the league has always made it known. Matter of fact, we have met with a number of them,’’ said Byrne. “We said from Day One that we want to be an MLS team, and whether it's doing that with our own ownership group or in collaboration with other ownership groups presented by the league – we are still committed to this vision.’’

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/soccerblog/cosmos_still_interested_groups_mls_auSPmecpNfyQ11jeLch7UO#ixzz1br9iNJSP

and from Forbes

SPORTSMONEY | 10/21/2011 @ 11:19AM |1,842 views

Can The Wilpons Support An MLS Team? At Twice The Usual Cost, Maybe Not

Adrian Melville, Contributor

Last week, MLS Commissioner Don Garber provided the latest update on the prospects of a second team in the New York area, making it clear that “if we can build a stadium, we’re going to have a 20th team in New York City.”

The concept of a second MLS team in the New York area is nothing new to American soccer fans. The league already has two teams in Los Angeles, and league executives have been leaning toward putting their 20th team in the metropolitan New York area for some time now. The issue has been finding the right investors for this flagship franchise, as well as finding space for a stadium that will connect MLS to New York City. That’s where Fred Wilpon comes in.

The Wilpons have been flirting with the idea of owning an MLS team for the past few years, and their previous experience with getting a stadium built (Citi Field) seems to be a big plus for MLS. Recently, Crain’s cited that Sterling Equities, the real estate firm controlled by Mets owners Fred Wilpon and Saul Katz, have put in a bid for Willets Point, a 61-acre parcel of patchy streets and auto shops in northeast Queens. This site would be ideal for an MLS franchise to build up, as it is home to a diverse group in an up and coming pocket of New York City.

The conflict is that in the fight for an area like Willets Point, there are many hurdles to clear. The first is coordinating with the government in a crowded area like New York City. Willets Point is an area that many former NYC mayors have failed in revamping, and current Mayor Michael Bloomberg has been determined to revamp for the last five years. Of course, the biggest issue has been finding an investment group that is committed to cleaning up the area first. Published reports have said that cleaning the area and acquiring land might cost the city as much as $130 million, and it is expected that the overall cost of the development would come to about $214.5 million. Perhaps because of this, MLS Commissioner Don Garber came out and confirmed this week that there will be a $100 million dollar expansion fee for whoever does buy the New York franchise.

If the Wilpons decide to pay the expansion fee, they will be paying twice as much as any other owner paid for an MLS team. At the moment it is hard to see this happening, since Wilpon told Sports Illustrated in May that the Mets are carrying $427 million in debt and may lose as much as $70 million this year. In addition to the expansion fee, Wilpon must also find a way to fund the Willets Point stadium, most likely with little help from a cash-strapped government. When the Wilpons began building Citi Field, the initial budget for the entire project was $600 million. According to the Empire State Development Corporation (ESDC), the Mets agreed to pay $423 million of that money for direct construction expenses, along with another $22 million towards infrastructure improvements. Although an MLS stadium will probably cost less than that, it is still a significant investment for a group that has seen its share of recent financial troubles.

Still there is hope that the Wilpons, MLS, and New York City can come to terms on a deal. As Commisioner Garber stated, it is doubtful that MLS will include any new team that does not have a stadium. But the Wilpons know that whoever does buy the New York franchise will be marketed as the face of a promising young league. If they can find a way to make everything work, the Wilpons will have conquered Queens with two professional franchises, and perhaps be credited with revamping a once forgotten area of New York City.

 

[Mjolnirs]

Round 2 of the DFB Pokal today. Bayern v Ingolstadt at 2:30 on espn3.com. Ingolstadt is currently at the bottom of the BL2 table.

 

[AcerFC]

I know we have some refs in here. Quick question

My JV Squad played in the JV county championship game yesterday. We played a very good team and one that we beat and tied in the regular season.

We had a 1-0 lead and gave one up with 14 minutes left. Their player was standing behind my goalie when the ball came to him and he put it in. I didnt argue (the refs here are terrible and I expect stuff like that)

Anyway, we go to OT and they score 20 seconds in. Here is my question. Where should an official be when they signal a ball went all the way over the line?

I am not a ref but would assume that the ref needs to be on the goal line extended or pretty close to it to be able to see the whole ball going over.

This guy was not even at the 18 yet. He said he saw the whole ball go over the line before my goalie punched it out. My guys went nuts and got in the guys face. I pulled them back and then had a civil conversation with him asking him if he felt he was in the right position to make that call. All he kept saying was that he was trying to get there as quick as possible. I didnt lose my mind because I knew that it wouldnt matter. It was just very disappointing to have a championship game end that way. On my way back to the bench, I told him he blew the offside call also just to make myself feel a little better

 

[El Floppo]

I know we have some refs in here. Quick questionMy JV Squad played in the JV county championship game yesterday. We played a very good team and one that we beat and tied in the regular season.We had a 1-0 lead and gave one up with 14 minutes left. Their player was standing behind my goalie when the ball came to him and he put it in. I didnt argue (the refs here are terrible and I expect stuff like that)Anyway, we go to OT and they score 20 seconds in. Here is my question. Where should an official be when they signal a ball went all the way over the line?I am not a ref but would assume that the ref needs to be on the goal line extended or pretty close to it to be able to see the whole ball going over. This guy was not even at the 18 yet. He said he saw the whole ball go over the line before my goalie punched it out. My guys went nuts and got in the guys face. I pulled them back and then had a civil conversation with him asking him if he felt he was in the right position to make that call. All he kept saying was that he was trying to get there as quick as possible. I didnt lose my mind because I knew that it wouldnt matter. It was just very disappointing to have a championship game end that way. On my way back to the bench, I told him he blew the offside call also just to make myself feel a little better

ugh.I reffed JV HS when I got out of college and had a similar play happen- coincidentally fot my old HS... I couldn't see it, so I couldn't/didn't call it (as much as I wanted my alma mater to score). I was the only ref for the game- two volunteer parents were my linesmen. how many did you have?as far as your question- its not the pros, so I wouldnt expect somebody to be right on the endline unless it was a corner kick. not sure of the answer... I would imagine its just a best-judgement call, which this guy clearly failed- especially the offsides.