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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (8 Viewers)

shader said:
roadkill1292 said:
I'm not sure I get this "intensity" argument on behalf of PL. From what I've seen of La Liga, those clubs hammer away -- at high speed -- at each other just as much as they do in England.

Having said that, I also can't explain why guys like DiMaria and Falcao have struggled in PL. It doesn't seem to be a universal problem; Luis Suarez certainly had his way with PL defenses. And Diego Costa appears to be relatively uncowed as well.
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I may be way off here, but my opinion is that a player succeeding is more a function of the system/position he's playing in than the league he is in, at least among the top 3-4 leagues.

Perhaps the LVG system just doesn't fit for those two players.
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This is overly simplistic but it seems like if your system can't fit Falcao and DiMaria either it's time for a new system or LvG should have realized that before spending £76 million.

 
NewlyRetired said:
If the partial leaked numbers are correct, I am thinking this is a big win for owners, loss for players and loss for fans.

The fans result could turn more positive if a tweak to the Double Penetration rule emerges but without that, MLS is destined to fall further behind the top 10-15 leagues in the world.
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go on

 
shader said:
roadkill1292 said:
I'm not sure I get this "intensity" argument on behalf of PL. From what I've seen of La Liga, those clubs hammer away -- at high speed -- at each other just as much as they do in England.

Having said that, I also can't explain why guys like DiMaria and Falcao have struggled in PL. It doesn't seem to be a universal problem; Luis Suarez certainly had his way with PL defenses. And Diego Costa appears to be relatively uncowed as well.
Click to expand...
I may be way off here, but my opinion is that a player succeeding is more a function of the system/position he's playing in than the league he is in, at least among the top 3-4 leagues.

Perhaps the LVG system just doesn't fit for those two players.
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New coach in a team with a lot of turnover in players. It would be natural for even the best talent to take time to fit in.

 
NewlyRetired said:
wdcrob said:
NewlyRetired said:
Looks like the cap jump was very low. This must have been the trade off for what ever free agency the players got.Follow[​IMG]Ives GalarcepVerified account‏@SoccerByIvesSo #MLSCBA deal is done. Hearing lots of players unhappy w/final deal. I'm told 7 teams voted against it (KC, RSL, RBNY, NYC, MON, FCD, COL)
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A majority of seven teams voting against it seems like a lot. It'll be interesting to see if the reason they're unhappy is the concessions are more along the lines of helping players as a group in the long run rather than increasing salaries today.Is there any sort of pattern to the teams that voted against?
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I don't understand. How are seven teams a majority? There are 20 teams in the league.

From the numbers that are coming out in twitter, I assume they are unhappy about the cap. It is much lower than anyone guessed but then again no one factored in free agency.
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Presumably for a team to vote against it a majority of players on that team voted no?

 
The Gator said:
Sinn Fein said:
NewlyRetired said:
Looks like the cap jump was very low. This must have been the trade off for what ever free agency the players got.

Follow[​IMG]Ives GalarcepVerified account‏@SoccerByIves

So #MLSCBA deal is done. Hearing lots of players unhappy w/final deal. I'm told 7 teams voted against it (KC, RSL, RBNY, NYC, MON, FCD, COL)
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lol - nothing like the unity of a single-entity league.
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Weak players union imo
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Ah - I saw "7 teams" and assumed it meant the teams voted against it - I guess it means the players from those teams voted against it.

Very week union imo, but baby steps, I suspect the players will be stronger/ more unified in a few years.

 
wdcrob said:
NewlyRetired said:
wdcrob said:
NewlyRetired said:
Looks like the cap jump was very low. This must have been the trade off for what ever free agency the players got.Follow[​IMG]Ives GalarcepVerified account‏@SoccerByIvesSo #MLSCBA deal is done. Hearing lots of players unhappy w/final deal. I'm told 7 teams voted against it (KC, RSL, RBNY, NYC, MON, FCD, COL)
Click to expand...
A majority of seven teams voting against it seems like a lot. It'll be interesting to see if the reason they're unhappy is the concessions are more along the lines of helping players as a group in the long run rather than increasing salaries today.Is there any sort of pattern to the teams that voted against?
Click to expand...
I don't understand. How are seven teams a majority? There are 20 teams in the league.From the numbers that are coming out in twitter, I assume they are unhappy about the cap. It is much lower than anyone guessed but then again no one factored in free agency.
Click to expand...
Presumably for a team to vote against it a majority of players on that team voted no?
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Oh, I misunderstood your sentence. Yes you are correct.

 
The Gator said:
Sinn Fein said:
NewlyRetired said:
Looks like the cap jump was very low. This must have been the trade off for what ever free agency the players got.

Follow[​IMG]Ives GalarcepVerified account‏@SoccerByIves

So #MLSCBA deal is done. Hearing lots of players unhappy w/final deal. I'm told 7 teams voted against it (KC, RSL, RBNY, NYC, MON, FCD, COL)
Click to expand...
lol - nothing like the unity of a single-entity league.
Click to expand...
Weak players union imo
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I think the players screwed themselves with the "all in" on wanting some sort of free agency.

I don't know what the total votes were but I bet it was close league wide. 7 teams had a few more no's and 13 teams had a few more yes votes.

I have to think many players not involved were wondering why they pressed so hard for free agency and basically got screwed on the salary jump everyone, including the owners, said was coming. Many players likely voted no across the league.

 
In case people were confused about Ives tweet about the vote, he clarifies the statement:

@SoccerByIves: To clarify for anyone confused by earlier tweet, list of teams I tweeted was teams whose PLAYERS voted against accepting deal, NOT owners

 
Multiple sites are reporting it is a 5 year deal. That looks to be a small win for the players as it was said to be an 8 year deal starting at the beginning of today.

Of course the reduction in years likely reduced the starting cap size as well.

 
It was not as good as Klopas though :)

Thomas Floyd @thomasfloyd10

Follow

#MLS coaches now have an impressive 100 percent ejection rate in the #CCL quarterfinals.

8:50 PM - 4 Mar 2015

 
NewlyRetired said:
Multiple sites are reporting it is a 5 year deal. That looks to be a small win for the players as it was said to be an 8 year deal starting at the beginning of today.

Of course the reduction in years likely reduced the starting cap size as well.
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If everybody's smart they'll keep doing this IMO. Accept less now in exchange for long-term gains and shorter CBAs so the stuff you don't like can be renegotiated again sooner.

And I think it could benefit the owners as well to scream and yell and throw stuff, but basically work to end up with something like the NFL and NBA have in terms of a revenue split (maybe the SEM gets them a little bigger piece of the pie -- but in the same basic ballpark) when the time comes and soccer is big.

 
According to JSB, the maximum salary increase for player movement is much better than we thought. 25% for salaries under 100K and 20% for salaries above 100K.

Considering they got the shorter deal, I think the players were right to focus on the structural issues now with a greater view to the actual size of the cap in the next go round. The increased minimum salary is nice as well, as those players really didn't have much of a voice in the process.

 
The restricted free agency system that was adopted is very much like the U of California system that Steven Bank described about 10 days ago, where universities in the system can bid against one another for professors, but only by a certain percentage.

 
Has anyone seen a roster size leak?

I know there are reports of many players being unhappy, but if the roster sizes got cut from 30 to 25 as was initially rumored, that would leave ~100 unhappy players.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
According to JSB, the maximum salary increase for player movement is much better than we thought. 25% for salaries under 100K and 20% for salaries above 100K.
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I think it is broken into 3 levels from the article I posted earlier:

Players who are making under $100,000 have a cap of a 125-percent increase of their salary, players making between $100-200,000 have a cap of 120-percent and players making more than $200,000 have a cap of 115-percent.

 
wdcrob said:
NewlyRetired said:
Multiple sites are reporting it is a 5 year deal. That looks to be a small win for the players as it was said to be an 8 year deal starting at the beginning of today.Of course the reduction in years likely reduced the starting cap size as well.
Click to expand...
If everybody's smart they'll keep doing this IMO. Accept less now in exchange for long-term gains and shorter CBAs so the stuff you don't like can be renegotiated again sooner.And I think it could benefit the owners as well to scream and yell and throw stuff, but basically work to end up with something like the NFL and NBA have in terms of a revenue split (maybe the SEM gets them a little bigger piece of the pie -- but in the same basic ballpark) when the time comes and soccer is big.
Click to expand...
You make good sense.

I think it was Robb Heineman, the KC owner, who many months ago said he believed it would not be this current CBA that would make big changes, but the one after this one would see much much larger changes.

He is generally an honest guy when he speaks so I kind of believe what he says but I am also sure the Krafts and Hunts will fight to keep their control. The question will be in 5 years is will enough new owners emerge who want to invest more in players than the current hardliners. I believe there is already a large divide in the owners in this stance that comes out in the DP spending.

 
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Mjolnirs said:
DFB Pokal Third Round:

FC Kaiserslautern (BL2) @ Bayer Leverkusen 0:2 aet1899 Hoffenheim @ VfR Aalen (BL2) 2:0FC Köln (BL2) @ SC Freiburg 1:2Borussia Dortmund @ Dynamo Dresden (BL2) 2:0Wolfsburg @ Leipzig (BL3) 2:0Werder Bremen @ Arminia Bielefeld (BL2) 1:3Borussia Mönchengladbach @ Kickers Offenbach 2:0Eintracht Braunschweig @ Bayern München 0:2
Click to expand...
Only one BL2 team advances to the final 8. The draw for the next round is on March 8th with the matches being played April 7th and 8th.

 
Mjolnirs said:
Mjolnirs said:
DFB Pokal Third Round:

FC Kaiserslautern (BL2) @ Bayer Leverkusen 0:2 aet1899 Hoffenheim @ VfR Aalen (BL2) 2:0FC Köln (BL2) @ SC Freiburg 1:2Borussia Dortmund @ Dynamo Dresden (BL2) 2:0Wolfsburg @ Leipzig (BL3) 2:0Werder Bremen @ Arminia Bielefeld (BL2) 1:3Borussia Mönchengladbach @ Kickers Offenbach 2:0Eintracht Braunschweig @ Bayern München 0:2
Click to expand...
Only one BL2 team advances to the final 8. The draw for the next round is on March 8th with the matches being played April 7th and 8th.
Click to expand...
Bielefeld must be over the moon they stunned their neighbors to the north. I used to walk into Arminia Bielefeld games for a couple marks and stand on the edge of the field. I'm sure most of those guys had day jobs. They were probably in the 4th or 5th tier back then, while Bremen was a powerhouse with Otto Rehagel and Rudi Voller.

 
NewlyRetired said:
The fans result could turn more positive if a tweak to the Double Penetration rule emerges but without that, MLS is destined to fall further behind the top 10-15 leagues in the world.
Click to expand...
Jeff Carlisle ‏@JeffreyCarlisle

.@tyconn21 DPs are not collectively bargained. Still hearing rumors of "Super-Max" DP that I reported on back in January.

@24thminute: Apparently there's might be a significant increase in off-budget spots (ie DP-ish spots) added over next few years.

 
ok based on the information released so far and inspired by the two tweets I just posted, we did some back of the envelope math.

*MLS pays all the non DP salaries at the league level

*The money used to pay comes from 4 main sources

a) National TV

b) National sponsorship

c) 1/3 ticket sales across league

d) cash calls from owners

It looks like D has likely been eliminated. With the new TV deal, extra cash calls from the owners is no longer needed. Based on the above tweets, it now appears to me that some owners (not all but some) will likely redirect the cash calls into more designated players.

The one special designated player Carlisle mentions above hits an important sweet spot. It is a special case which covers the growing amount of DP's who are just slightly over the max cap size (Zusi, Besler, Edu, DMB, EJ, Valeri, Alonso etc etc) and frees up more cap space to sign other players.

If this comes into play, this CBA might work out a little better for the fans than I first expected.

 
This is an interesting take I did not consider in that there might have been an ulterior motive on MLS increasing the min salary up to $60k

The newly agreed upon CBA takes the minimum MLS player salaries away from the levels where NASL teams can poach guys from MLS clubs. This almost completely undercuts NASL’s ability to compete for mid and lower level MLS players. The new CBA also ensures that players in MLS can move within the league after a certain period of time. NASL clubs have benefited directly from signing veteran MLS players with mid-level salaries, whose rights were held by a club they did not want to play for. Tampa Bay Rowdies Goalkeeper Matt Pickens and New York Cosmos defender Hunter Freeman are examples of this. While Tampa Bay, New York and also Minnesota can continue to compete with MLS clubs for players, this CBA probably prices the rest of NASL out of competing for legitimate first division players.
Click to expand...
 
NewlyRetired said:
This is an interesting take I did not consider in that there might have been an ulterior motive on MLS increasing the min salary up to $60k

The newly agreed upon CBA takes the minimum MLS player salaries away from the levels where NASL teams can poach guys from MLS clubs. This almost completely undercuts NASL’s ability to compete for mid and lower level MLS players. The new CBA also ensures that players in MLS can move within the league after a certain period of time. NASL clubs have benefited directly from signing veteran MLS players with mid-level salaries, whose rights were held by a club they did not want to play for. Tampa Bay Rowdies Goalkeeper Matt Pickens and New York Cosmos defender Hunter Freeman are examples of this. While Tampa Bay, New York and also Minnesota can continue to compete with MLS clubs for players, this CBA probably prices the rest of NASL out of competing for legitimate first division players.
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Click to expand...
For now. But soccer is growing everywhere. Who knows what things will look like in 10 years.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Mjolnirs said:
Mjolnirs said:
DFB Pokal Third Round:

FC Kaiserslautern (BL2) @ Bayer Leverkusen 0:2 aet1899 Hoffenheim @ VfR Aalen (BL2) 2:0FC Köln (BL2) @ SC Freiburg 1:2Borussia Dortmund @ Dynamo Dresden (BL2) 2:0Wolfsburg @ Leipzig (BL3) 2:0Werder Bremen @ Arminia Bielefeld (BL2) 1:3Borussia Mönchengladbach @ Kickers Offenbach 2:0Eintracht Braunschweig @ Bayern München 0:2
Click to expand...
Only one BL2 team advances to the final 8. The draw for the next round is on March 8th with the matches being played April 7th and 8th.
Click to expand...
Bielefeld must be over the moon they stunned their neighbors to the north. I used to walk into Arminia Bielefeld games for a couple marks and stand on the edge of the field. I'm sure most of those guys had day jobs. They were probably in the 4th or 5th tier back then, while Bremen was a powerhouse with Otto Rehagel and Rudi Voller.
Click to expand...
I'm sure they were quite excited. It's always nice to see the lower division teams advance, you know, as long as they aren't beating your own team.
 
This looks like a nice compliment to the SkySports deal announced last week.

============================

MLS and Eurosport announce four-year partnership to broadcast games in Europe

MARCH 5, 2015

Major League Soccer and Eurosport today announced a four-year agreement for Eurosport to air MLS matches in all of Eurosport's European territories (except the United Kingdom).

The four-year deal includes exclusive TV and digital rights for all regular-season matches, the AT&T MLS All-Star Game, MLS playoff matches and MLS Cup. Games will be broadcast on both Eurosport and Eurosport 2 and made available through the Eurosport Player, Eurosport’s online subscription service.

"It is a pleasure to be able to announce our support for the long-term vision of MLS," Eurosport Group GEO Peter Hutton said. "We see the recent signings of Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard as further proof of the willingness of the league and its owners to invest in globally recognized names. This can only help us grow MLS internationally, where we will look to show the league both live and in prime time to reach the maximum possible European audience. As we continue to improve the quality of Eurosport across the region, the new deal with the MLS is a significant step to increase our live football content as well as a sign of our belief in the potential of the league to continue to grow."

The deal complements the recently announced agreement between MLS and Sky Sports to air games in the United Kingdom. Up to four matches will be shown live each weekend on a combination of Eurosport and Eurosport 2, including one match live at 11 pm Central European Time on Sunday night and one immediately following. A 30-minute matchday preview will be broadcast on Eurosport 2 each Friday in access primetime.

 
Looks like Dortmund has quickly righted their ship after a monstrously bad start to the season.

After week 19, they were dead last in the league.

After week 23, they have climbed all the way to 10th and remarkably are only 8 points out of a UCL spot.

 
Inside MLS @InsideMLS

CONFIRMED: @JohnStrong, @AlexiLalas and @GrantWahl to serve as top broadcast team for #MLSonFOX this season. #MLS

Alex Weprin @alexweprin

Fox Sports names Alexi Lalas and John Strong as lead Major League Soccer broadcast team. Landon Donovan joining studio team.

=============

For the second Fox team this week it is JP, Friedel and Stewart Binks

 
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towney said:
Big day for Orlando this Sunday. The start of their inagural MLS season, sell-out of 62K seats.
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This should be a really fun game to watch. I love seeing expansion teams play their first game in any sport and it will be fun to watch two expansion teams playing each other in front of a huge crowd on national tv.

 
I just crunched some numbers and I now know who actually won in this whole CBA/no strike thing. I did! Turns out I'm going to the DC United season opener tomorrow! :pickle:

 
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