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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ramsay Hunt Experience
- Start date
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
That was quite a run into the box for the second goal.
CBusAlex
Footballguy
Sebowski
Footballguy
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
MLS gets #### for not being the prettiest league in the world in terms of quality, but damn these games today have been good.
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
First game today was kind of meh, but that second game was a lot of fun.
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
The playoffs have been 90% really entertaining this year. I think the first game today was one of the worst so far this season in the playoffs so if you liked that you would have loved many of the other games.
As you said, not a lot of elegance here but still lots of entertainment to be found.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I missed a chunk of the second half of the first game so maybe that was pretty bad. The quick goal caused some serious end-to-end action for much of the first half....no scoring but some excitement I thought.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
So I took a look at Forbes' estimates of soccer clubs' revenues this weekend, and thought this might be interesting to someone. Especially someone looking at jumping in as a new fan. Obviously lots of people choose less well-to-do teams, but in terms of the teams that have fairly realistic chances to win the Champions League or a domestic title in a "Big Four" league, this is a pretty good list. (#) represents place on Forbes' list of team values.
Note that these are highly subjective groupings -- it's the way I see these teams based largely on when I started following soccer. I'm sure others view them differently.
The Yankees
Real Madrid (1)
Manchester United (3)
Bayern Munich (4)
AC Milan (10)
These four teams are not just top of the table a lot historically, they're also tied directly into either the country's political elite (Real, Bayern, AC Milan) or are the marketing-driven choice of bandwagoners worldwide (United). If you pick one of these teams you can be comfortable that your team will always be in the mix, but it's like rooting for Goliath. AC Milan has fallen on harder times lately, but make the list by virtue of being owned by Silvio Berlusconi.
The Toys
Manchester City (5)
Chelsea (6)
Paris Saint-Germain (12)
Successful teams with massive revenue, but not necessarily run to maximize profits. Generally disliked for their deep pocket owners and nouveau riche ways -- somewhat unfairly given that many teams have shady and/or foreign ownership -- but like the teams above, usually in the mix.
The Outsiders
Barcelona (2)
Liverpool (8)
Dortmund (11)
Inter Milan (15)
Cletius will scoff at this grouping given that these are all still massive clubs, but "outsiders" here refers to either the working class (Liverpool, Dortmund, Inter) or separatist (Barcelona) roots of the club. Either way, they explicitly see themselves as foils to The Yankees. My kind of teams. I admit Barcelona is a stretch for this list today, but they were devoutly anti-Franco and still occasionally suffer for their anti-Madrid bent. (It's also worth noting that Barca only won two of ten titles in the first decade I was watching soccer -- the juggernaut came later -- and this is a subjective list.)
The Brandless
Arsenal (7)
Juventus (9)
I like both teams well enough and enjoy watching them, but they're sort of just there and I have no idea what, if anything, they represent in England or Italy.
The Underdogs
Tottehnam (13)
Schalke (14)
Atletico Madrid (16)
IMO these are the last teams that could still be considered "big" on the world stage, but neither Tottenham or Schalke have won a domestic title in the last 50 years. Atletico has fared better recently, but if you want to throw in with an indisputably "lesser" team in a big league these would be good choices. All three could be grouped with the Outsiders as well if someone else were making the list.
Note that these are highly subjective groupings -- it's the way I see these teams based largely on when I started following soccer. I'm sure others view them differently.
The Yankees
Real Madrid (1)
Manchester United (3)
Bayern Munich (4)
AC Milan (10)
These four teams are not just top of the table a lot historically, they're also tied directly into either the country's political elite (Real, Bayern, AC Milan) or are the marketing-driven choice of bandwagoners worldwide (United). If you pick one of these teams you can be comfortable that your team will always be in the mix, but it's like rooting for Goliath. AC Milan has fallen on harder times lately, but make the list by virtue of being owned by Silvio Berlusconi.
The Toys
Manchester City (5)
Chelsea (6)
Paris Saint-Germain (12)
Successful teams with massive revenue, but not necessarily run to maximize profits. Generally disliked for their deep pocket owners and nouveau riche ways -- somewhat unfairly given that many teams have shady and/or foreign ownership -- but like the teams above, usually in the mix.
The Outsiders
Barcelona (2)
Liverpool (8)
Dortmund (11)
Inter Milan (15)
Cletius will scoff at this grouping given that these are all still massive clubs, but "outsiders" here refers to either the working class (Liverpool, Dortmund, Inter) or separatist (Barcelona) roots of the club. Either way, they explicitly see themselves as foils to The Yankees. My kind of teams. I admit Barcelona is a stretch for this list today, but they were devoutly anti-Franco and still occasionally suffer for their anti-Madrid bent. (It's also worth noting that Barca only won two of ten titles in the first decade I was watching soccer -- the juggernaut came later -- and this is a subjective list.)
The Brandless
Arsenal (7)
Juventus (9)
I like both teams well enough and enjoy watching them, but they're sort of just there and I have no idea what, if anything, they represent in England or Italy.
The Underdogs
Tottehnam (13)
Schalke (14)
Atletico Madrid (16)
IMO these are the last teams that could still be considered "big" on the world stage, but neither Tottenham or Schalke have won a domestic title in the last 50 years. Atletico has fared better recently, but if you want to throw in with an indisputably "lesser" team in a big league these would be good choices. All three could be grouped with the Outsiders as well if someone else were making the list.
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
That was a great read Rob! I really like the groupings from a high level.
It makes me wonder if any team from outside of Europe would ever be able to break into that level before I die, but I don't see it happening. The gap is so big and appears to be widening.
It makes me wonder if any team from outside of Europe would ever be able to break into that level before I die, but I don't see it happening. The gap is so big and appears to be widening.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Thanks Andy, those groups were sort of in my head but not really organized. Was fun to figure out why I had them mentally linked and liked/disliked the teams I do.
Native
Footballguy
When Barca buy players like Zlatan, Neymar, Suraez, etc for near world record fees, Im pretty sure you can put them in the Yankees category.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Yeah -- I knew people would take exception to that one. But the history keeps them there for me.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Good list rob - and I do agree with the 4 "outsider" clubs, as that is their reputation - although I think Barca is not really part of that club anymore. Its strange that Ajax and Celtic are not even a consideration anymore, but that is the reality. The two "Brandless" clubs are interesting. Juve for me is a massive institution, certainly as much as Milan if not moreso in the context of Italian and European football. Arsenal's brand is imo inextricably tied to Wenger - really in a way no other club has been associated with one personality as far as I can remember.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Yeah, I think it's kind of an arbitrary list. You might put Milan on a list with Real because it has the second most European titles, but I don't think it's ties to Berlusconi (in a period when it has not really had much success) is anything like Real's historical ties to Franco. And while I can see the ties between Barca and Liverpool (successful teams coached in a Catalan nationalist or socialist identity), you have to work pretty hard to find that those teams have anything to do with Dortmund or Inter.
Also Juventus is the most successful (in terms of domestic titles) and best supported (in terms of fan base) club in Italy.
Also Juventus is the most successful (in terms of domestic titles) and best supported (in terms of fan base) club in Italy.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Maybe it helps if you think of the orientation of the fan base or their position in society. For example, Celtic would be an outsider while Rangers would (historically) be The Yankees.
But, yeah. I acknowledged it's a subjective list.
And Cletius, I had the same thought re: some of the smaller clubs that used to make noise. Seems to happen a lot less these days.
But, yeah. I acknowledged it's a subjective list.
And Cletius, I had the same thought re: some of the smaller clubs that used to make noise. Seems to happen a lot less these days.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Arsene totally changed Arsenal's "brand." The old joke in English football was "1-Nil to the Arsenal." Arsenal were seen as the pragmatic club that won its share of titles by playing boring football. Tottenham's old brand was as the club that played exciting, thrilling football, but never won anything.
I'd argue that Mourinho is almost as central to Chelsea's brand as Wenger to Arsenal's. Chelsea is different in that their brand was largely built by one exceptional generation of players, and as they're all aging out, Mourinho is what's left.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
It will be difficult for the Gunners to truly rock out with their Coq out. Fortunately, they just need to hang on until January when Kim Kallstrom will be available.Coquelin out for at least 2 months. Who could have possibly imagined Arsenal would be short handed at striker and defensive midfield.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
The Gator will be happy to know that little Sammyinho readily chose to root for 'Pool this weekend. It was the first weekend he really realized there were in fact different teams rather than just the same players in different colored uniforms, so this may stick.
BTW he liked the coach.
He also wants to go to games next year, so I think I have a few hikes up to the Bronx or NJ in me soon.
BTW he liked the coach.
He also wants to go to games next year, so I think I have a few hikes up to the Bronx or NJ in me soon.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
It's funny, all the Italian clubs and non-Bayern German clubs seem sort of brandless to me these days as an American who really only sees them in the CL these days.CletiusMaximus said:
As an aside, to show how powerful the EPL is these days, the Croatian "FIL" follows the EPL closer (West Ham in particular since they have a Croatian coach) than any non-Croatian domestic league and then the CL-Europa. Much like here, they follow their domestic league, EPL, and CL-Europa. The EPL is just swamping everyone else in TV coverage.
JaxBill
Footballguy
Tony Meola to coach NASL Jacksonville Armada
http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/11/23/tony-meola-jacksonville-armada-nasl-coach
http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/11/23/tony-meola-jacksonville-armada-nasl-coach
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
And they did this in a relatively short amount of time. It was really in just the past two decades that this transformation occurred.
Many newer fans might assume that England was always the top of the food chain but it really wasn't. In the early days of the EPL, fans wondered why players like Gullit and Ravenilli were going to England the same way people wonder why Villa and Kaka are coming to MLS today.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I'm pretty sure I heard Phil Schoen say during the broadcast Saturday there would be "600 million pairs of eyeballs" watching the Classico. Is that accurate? That seems crazy to me.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I've seen 400 million quoted before, but I've never seen it in an official total. According to Wikipedia, only the Champions League final eclipses the Super Bowl as an annual event (and they are in the 115-120 million range).
massraider
Footballguy
Tottenham making a move for Alexander Pato. Anyone tell me anything about this guy?
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Yeah...I was sort of shocked, after the EPL games finished up, he was flipping around the channels and found a Bundesliga match on one of the Fox channels. Sammyinho was asking who the teams were, but he had no idea. Turns out Croatian TV has the EPL and some La Liga on (Barca/RM mainly), and he gets some of the RAI feeds from Italy. But the Croatian viewing habits end up mirroring the US.
El Floppo
Footballguy
wow... he's only 26. seems like he's been around forever.
decent, chicarito type of player. had a good run with Brazil youth and senior national team, but somehow fell of the table. Played for that ####ty Milan team. runs the channels well and works hard. mostly, he's the guy that went waaaaay overboard with the cupped hands making the heart shape after scoring.
Kafka
Footballguy
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El Floppo
Footballguy
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
fer christsakes kafka, its not even happy hour yet
Sebowski
Footballguy
Sebowski
Footballguy
Jaysus
Good times!
He's been back in brazil for the last few years and has, allegedly, been a bit of a locker room problem for his club which forced them to loan him out to their rivals for a financial loss. Prior to that loan, fans were fed up with the team and stormed the stadium looking for players to assult, Pato was apparently near the top of their list - he has not played for Cornthians since.
El Floppo
Footballguy
This is more likely to be an agent-driven story.
Spurs are definitely in the market for a back-up striker in January - but they spent all last season getting rid of bad attitudes. Seems unlikely that they want to disrupt a fantastic squad atmosphere right now.
The Gator
Footballguy
WilliamAre there any decent DMs available this window? You know, so I can hope and then be disappointed not to sign?Tom Hagen said:Coquelin out for at least 2 months. Who could have possibly imagined Arsenal would be short handed at striker and defensive midfield.
Sebowski
Footballguy
Carvalho? Oh yeah, him again... Let's get him, Wenger!WilliamAre there any decent DMs available this window? You know, so I can hope and then be disappointed not to sign?Tom Hagen said:Coquelin out for at least 2 months. Who could have possibly imagined Arsenal would be short handed at striker and defensive midfield.
