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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (5 Viewers)

Dortmund and United working on a loan of Sancho back to Dortmund. He highlights everything wrong with United's transfer work over the years.

Took 3 years to sign him
Overpaid for him
Gave him an overly high salary relative to others
Now can't unload him when he doesn't work out.

Not blaming Sancho, just the process. He is one of many that needed to go but they couldn't unload because of fees and salary. Leads to another loan where they have to pay part of the salary or get no loan fee.



On a side note, I do also wonder if that missed PK affected him. Saka has grown from it, Rashford has been up and down since it. Sancho seems to have never recovered.
 
Poke_4_Life said:
Timo Werner to Spurs. Loan with option to buy.

Him and Richarlison will be clanking sitters off posts the entire Spring. :oldunsure:
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Love how the entire EPl seemed to be fighting over the living legend Timo.

I'll give him due credit- He gets into great spots.




....And then bungles it.
 
El Floppo said:
Love how the entire EPl seemed to be fighting over the living legend Timo.

I'll give him due credit- He gets into great spots.




....And then bungles it.
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Son consistently outperforms his XG. Timo and Richarlison should help keep it even for the Spurs overall. Ugh.

In all seriousness, Timo seems like he needs to be at a team where he is loved. Spurs seem to be having fun this season and Big Ange seems to love the players. Maybe it will work out. It is a loan w/ option to buy, so little risk.
 
I kid with Timo... He was repeatedly and uncannily an inch or two away from putting in 20 goals. If those start going in, he's a monster. But they didn't go in in Germany either, after Chelsea... Right?
 
El Floppo said:
I kid with Timo... He was repeatedly and uncannily an inch or two away from putting in 20 goals. If those start going in, he's a monster. But they didn't go in in Germany either, after Chelsea... Right?
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I really don't know how he has done in Germany, but a mid-season loan with an option to buy of <20mil makes me think he isn't banging them in.
 
Fourth round cup draw:

Watford v Southampton
Blackburn Rovers v Wrexham
Bournemouth v Swansea City
West Bromwich Albion v Brentford or Wolverhampton Wanderers
West Ham United or Bristol City v Nottingham Forest or Blackpool
Leicester City v Hull City or Birmingham City
Sheffield Wednesday v Coventry City
Chelsea v Aston Villa
Ipswich Town v Maidstone United
Liverpool v Norwich City or Bristol Rovers
Tottenham Hotspur v Manchester City
Leeds United v Plymouth Argyle
Crystal Palace or Everton v Luton Town or Bolton Wanderers
Newport County or Eastleigh v Wigan Athletic or Manchester United
Sheffield United v Brighton & Hove Albion
Fulham v Newcastle United
 
Back when I was banned while I was "judging" the soccer selections in Tim's "best draft" my entire post about Zizzou was wondering if he was better than Xavi. I think it's hard because I've probably seen Xavi play hundreds of games and I've seen less than 40 Zidane games. But a handful of those 40 games are super memorable. The 98 final. The 2006 Quarter final when he made Brazil look like they played a U-10 team in midfleld. The second round game against Spain in the same World Cup which was probably a better game considering Spain put up a fight. The Champions League final with THAT volley.
 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Back when I was banned while I was "judging" the soccer selections in Tim's "best draft" my entire post about Zizzou was wondering if he was better than Xavi. I think it's hard because I've probably seen Xavi play hundreds of games and I've seen less than 40 Zidane games. But a handful of those 40 games are super memorable. The 98 final. The 2006 Quarter final when he made Brazil look like they played a U-10 team in midfleld. The second round game against Spain in the same World Cup which was probably a better game considering Spain put up a fight. The Champions League final with THAT volley.
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I've said all this too many times...

Watched him on RAI for Juve and always wondered why opponents took it so easy on him. Seemed like he always had time and space to do whatever he wanted and seemed to move around in slow motion while doing it. Considering this was prime Serie A, that always surprised me.

Saw him live for RM (vs Roma) and I finally got it. In person and not in the limits of the screen, He wasn't slow. He wasn't being given any time or space. He was anything but lazy. Literally non stop, box to box, and with 1 or 2 guys always on him kicking the **** out of him. He'd make a 40 yard sprint with guys hanging in him, get to the ball as if he'd been sitting on a lazy boy.. calmest silkiest most perfect touch and ideas/vision of what to do with it beyond what id imagine possible while sitting in my seat.

It was awe-inspiring. I watched with a buddy from my college team and we're both dumbfounded, hitting each other out of sheer wtf just happened wtf are we watching here.

Best player I've ever seen.

And I've seen Maradonna, Messi and CRo live.
 
B Maverick said:
Dortmund and United working on a loan of Sancho back to Dortmund. He highlights everything wrong with United's transfer work over the years.

Took 3 years to sign him
Overpaid for him
Gave him an overly high salary relative to others
Now can't unload him when he doesn't work out.

Not blaming Sancho, just the process. He is one of many that needed to go but they couldn't unload because of fees and salary. Leads to another loan where they have to pay part of the salary or get no loan fee.



On a side note, I do also wonder if that missed PK affected him. Saka has grown from it, Rashford has been up and down since it. Sancho seems to have never recovered.
Click to expand...
Done deal per Fabrizio...

No buy option, 4mill Euros covering some salary and small loan fee.
 
B Maverick said:
B Maverick said:
Dortmund and United working on a loan of Sancho back to Dortmund. He highlights everything wrong with United's transfer work over the years.

Took 3 years to sign him
Overpaid for him
Gave him an overly high salary relative to others
Now can't unload him when he doesn't work out.

Not blaming Sancho, just the process. He is one of many that needed to go but they couldn't unload because of fees and salary. Leads to another loan where they have to pay part of the salary or get no loan fee.



On a side note, I do also wonder if that missed PK affected him. Saka has grown from it, Rashford has been up and down since it. Sancho seems to have never recovered.
Click to expand...
Done deal per Fabrizio...

No buy option, 4mill Euros covering some salary and small loan fee.
Click to expand...
I have always wondered how loans work financially...

Is it different for every player/loan deal or do the majority of loans take on the same form of payment/salary coverage etc by the team that is receiving the player on loan..?

I ask because this Sancho loan is one of the few I have seen fairly significant $$ attached to the media reports.
 
NewlyRetired said:
B Maverick said:
B Maverick said:
Dortmund and United working on a loan of Sancho back to Dortmund. He highlights everything wrong with United's transfer work over the years.

Took 3 years to sign him
Overpaid for him
Gave him an overly high salary relative to others
Now can't unload him when he doesn't work out.

Not blaming Sancho, just the process. He is one of many that needed to go but they couldn't unload because of fees and salary. Leads to another loan where they have to pay part of the salary or get no loan fee.



On a side note, I do also wonder if that missed PK affected him. Saka has grown from it, Rashford has been up and down since it. Sancho seems to have never recovered.
Click to expand...
Done deal per Fabrizio...

No buy option, 4mill Euros covering some salary and small loan fee.
Click to expand...
I have always wondered how loans work financially...

Is it different for every player/loan deal or do the majority of loans take on the same form of payment/salary coverage etc by the team that is receiving the player on loan..?

I ask because this Sancho loan is one of the few I have seen fairly significant $$ attached to the media reports.
Click to expand...
My understanding is it is different for each player. Some negotiation of a loan fee and salary coverage. I think the norm is to get a fee and wages covered. Someone like Sancho, who is on extremely high weekly wages may have the parent club cover some wages or even get no fee if the other club agrees to cover the wages.
 
B Maverick said:
My understanding is it is different for each player. Some negotiation of a loan fee and salary coverage. I think the norm is to get a fee and wages covered. Someone like Sancho, who is on extremely high weekly wages may have the parent club cover some wages or even get no fee if the other club agrees to cover the wages.
Click to expand...
Tottenham is paying all of Djed Spence salary at Genoa just to get him away from them.
 
massraider said:
B Maverick said:
My understanding is it is different for each player. Some negotiation of a loan fee and salary coverage. I think the norm is to get a fee and wages covered. Someone like Sancho, who is on extremely high weekly wages may have the parent club cover some wages or even get no fee if the other club agrees to cover the wages.
Click to expand...
Tottenham is paying all of Djed Spence salary at Genoa just to get him away from them.
Click to expand...
I don't get this. Spence should thrive under Big Ange, instead Spurs, who are notoriously tight with money, are paying his salary for him to play for another team. Spence must be a serious head case; he just oozes raw talent when I've seen him play.
 
Poke_4_Life said:
B Maverick said:
Done deal per Fabrizio...

No buy option, 4mill Euros covering some salary and small loan fee.
Click to expand...
To clarify, ManU sending 4mil to Dortmund? To cover salary? Or Dortmund paying 4mil and ManU covering some salary? Or do we know?
Click to expand...
It was listed as 4.3M which was a combination of loan fee + some salary mitigation. This sounds like the money is coming to Man United
 
I just finished watching the Bayern v Hoffenheim match. There was a moment of silence at the start for Franz Beckenbauer.
I have watched many sports events where a moment of silence was done.
I don't think I have ever heard a stadium full of people go as quiet as the Allianz Arena did today.
It was amazing.

Now with a link
hopefully this works. At about the 57 second mark.
 
Last edited:
A read on the January transfer market

The Premier League’s decision to dock Everton 10 points for breaching their PSR has left other clubs looking nervously over their shoulder, while the ban on the ‘Chelsea loophole’ has put a block on one potential way around this.

Even the Saudi league seems prepared for a quiet January, the main noise from there being Jordan Henderson’s come-and-get-me plea to Europe.

So are fears of breaching financial fair play (FFP) finally taking effect after the Everton ruling? What does it mean for this month’s window? And is it ruining all our transfer fun?

“The Everton case is a big factor for sure,” says Dan Plumley, a sports finance expert and lecturer at Sheffield Hallam University. “We had never seen a club docked points for FFP breaches so that will have put clubs on red alert.”

At a hearing in November, Everton were deducted 10 points for losses totalling £124.5million from 2019 to 2022. This was £19.5m above the £105m limit for any three-season period set out by PSR. They have appealed against this and brought in highly respected lawyer Laurence Rabinowitz to help fight their case.

Clubs are only allowed to lose £105m over three seasons (or £35m a season) but certain costs can be deducted, such as investment in youth development, infrastructure, community and women’s football. There were also specific allowances relating to the Covid-19 pandemic and, to help clubs, the league combined the two pandemic-hit seasons into one, turning the three-year accounting period into four years.


“A precedent has been set,” explains the football finance expert Kieran Maguire. “Clubs have to make sure they are on the right side of the line.”

But it’s not just the Everton ruling that clubs have to consider at this time.

The ‘Chelsea loophole’ has been shut after the Premier League followed UEFA’s lead in December. This means clubs can only amortise transfer fees for a maximum of five years. Chelsea had worked around FFP rules by signing players such as Fernandez and Mykhailo Mudryk on eight-and-half-year contracts and spread the cost over that period. Thankfully for Chelsea, the new policy was not backdated to last summer.
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continued

There are other factors at play too.

Christina Philippou, a principal lecturer in accounting at the University of Portsmouth, explains: “There’s the potential independent regulator threat, so there is more thinking around the financial state of clubs — and then there’s the new UEFA regulations on squad costs. You have also got a repealing of the tax benefit in Italy which then makes Italy less competitive.”

The UEFA rules referenced above limit clubs’ spending on wages, transfers and agents’ fees to 70 per cent of their revenue, although permitted losses over three years have risen to £50million (from £25m). This is being introduced gradually, with the percentage set at 90 per cent of revenue in 2023-24 and 80 per cent in 2024-25 before going down to 70 per cent in 2025-26. The impact of the tax-break ban in Italy was explained on The Athletic this week.

Meanwhile, the Saudi Pro League — a handy get-out-of-jail card for many Premier League clubs, such as Chelsea and Liverpool, looking to offload unwanted players on big salaries in the summer — is not showing the same appetite for spending this winter. Henderson’s experience at Al Ettifaq is perhaps a cautionary tale for others tempted to follow the Saudi money.
New guidelines introduced by the Premier League meant all clubs had to submit their accounts for 2022-2023 by December 31, rather than March. Any breaches and subsequent charges will be confirmed this coming Sunday (January 14) — although the rules state this should be on the next working day, meaning Monday is more likely.


As a result, clubs will know what position they are in, which is likely to give them extra reason for caution. Moving the deadline to New Year’s Eve means any basic breaches of the rules will then be dealt with in time for punishments, such as points deductions, to be handed out in the same season. Clubs will have a fortnight to respond to charges and then a hearing by an independent commission must be wrapped up by April 7. But teams will not necessarily know their actual fate by the end of the season. Appeals will have to be concluded by May 24, five days after the final fixtures.

This did not happen with Everton, who received their points deduction the following season, or the long-running cases involving Manchester City and Chelsea.

City have been charged with 115 breaches but are said to be at least two years away from learning their fate, while Chelsea self-reported issues about alleged secret payments to agents during Roman Abramovich’s time as their owner.

Philippou says: “We’ve seen what’s happened with Everton, we know Chelsea are under investigation and we know City have been charged. There are obvious signs the Premier League are looking at their profitability and sustainability rules.

“Clubs that might have in the past thought: ‘Well, we can just move stuff around and sail close to the wind but there will be some wiggle room’. But that might not be feeling that way this time round.”
Click to expand...
 
So what does that all mean in reality for this January transfer window?

Well, it means we’re more likely to see transfers in the form of loans, such as Timo Werner joining Tottenham Hotspur on loan from RB Leipzig, or cut-price deals.

tyImages-1482406740-scaled-e1704801644908-1024x682.jpg
GO DEEPER
How and why Spurs moved so quickly for Timo Werner

Manchester United, for example, posted a record £150million pre-tax loss in 2021-22 and have made clear they must pay careful attention to PSR rules this window. In July, the club were fined £257,000 by UEFA for a minor breach of its previous FFP rules.


Last month, John Murtough, the club’s football director, said: “We’ve seen this season that FFP rules have real teeth, so we have to be very careful to ensure that we remain compliant — and we will. But that means being really disciplined on spending going forward, with a balance between incomings and outgoings.”



Newcastle United, who have spent more than £400million on new players since the takeover by Saudi Arabia’s Public Investment Fund in October 2021, are also wary of PSR constraints this winter. Newcastle recorded a pre-tax loss of £73.4million for their last set of accounts. They will only bring in players if they can do so without going beyond their PSR limit.

Fears of falling foul of PSR saw 17 players, including Raul Jimenez, Ruben Neves and Matheus Nunes, depart Wolverhampton Wanderers over the summer for a combined £140million. Wolves are confident that mass exodus will mean they avoid any Premier League charge.


Meanwhile, there are concerns Everton could face a second charge for breaching PSR. Chelsea, who have spent almost £1billion in the three windows since Todd Boehly and Clearlake Capital bought the club, are also mindful of the rules this January, especially after the loophole they exploited was shut.

The club are under investigation after their current owners self-reported incomplete financial information related to transactions that took place during the Roman Abramovich regime between 2012 and 2019. Following Chelsea’s self-reporting, UEFA fined the club £8.6million for historical breaches of FFP regulations in July.

Fulham, who made a £57million loss in their last published accounts, must also take care to stay on the PSR tightrope, while there is also thought to be a need for caution at Aston Villa.

However, the Premier League club that have the most to fear are Nottingham Forest. They have only been in the Premier League for one year of the last three-year period, which means their permissible losses are even smaller. They would be limited to losses of £61million.


Forest reported an annual loss of £45.6million in their latest figures. They have signed 42 players since winning promotion back to the top flight in 2022. The sale of academy star Brennan Johnson, who joined Tottenham for £47.5milion on deadline day of the summer window, was seen as crucial to balancing the books — but it took place after this set of accounts. Forest will likely argue that if they had chosen to offload Johnson ahead of the June 30 deadline for this set of accounts, they would have received a smaller fee than the one they eventually got.



“Eighteen out of 20 clubs lost money in the last financial year,” says Maguire. “It was only player sales that dug them out of those losses. So they are having to use the transfer market a bit judiciously to make sure they don’t exceed the limits and, of course, we’ve now got the new UEFA rules coming into play as well which have an impact on those six or seven clubs who, if we’re honest, are the main drivers of the market.

“Newcastle had a big splurge when the new owners came in, but we’ve seen them roll back. Manchester United’s position has been fairly evident; they’ve said they have had to use the loan market.

“There’s a school of thought Forest are going to have to put together a very persuasive case to avoid being up on a charge. They are the name that keeps coming up.Everton have got a greater chance of satisfying the rules than Forest because they sold Anthony Gordon and, under the way the rules work, that’s a £40million pure profit, which goes into the equation.

“Chelsea sold academy players such as Mason Mount and Ruben Loftus-Cheek. And while they may have been on the wrong side of the financial year-end, they also sold players going back the previous 12 months, so they should be OK. Forest are the one where they’ve bought a lot of players but not really sold any.”
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The Super Eagles wasted a lot of chances in their AFCON opener. They have a lot of attacking talent on the roster but could only muster one goal vs. Equatorial Guinea.

Plenty of good seats available in Abidjan.
 
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