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***OFFICIAL 'The Walking Dead' TV Series Thread*** (8 Viewers)

ghostguy123 said:
Zow said:
Clearly, we fundamentally disagree on the base nature of man.
In case you haven't noticed, the rather overwhelming majority of "good" people are not the type that survive this.
I don't see why a rapist would be more or less better equipped to survive this world than someone who wasn't one. I get that those with the willingness to kill one to save a few will be more likely to survive, but I don't see why the survivors have to be truly malevolent.

Nonetheless, I'd argue that there's a huge gap on the scale between Mother Theresa and the true sociopaths they have leading these groups. You know, kind of like where Rick and Carol fall.

 
Worm said:
El Floppo said:
Zow said:
pantherclub said:
So help me out here. The "hook" of the hospital is that they capture people to make them work? Thats it? No breeding ground, no crazy killers they just need cheap labor? Seems like an odd angle.
I don't really think so. To me it's actually made way more sense than the Terminus cannibalism or even the governor thing. The group recognizes strength in numbers and has embraced the do whatever is necessary to survive. Therefore they need people but lack the emotional sympathy they might have otherwise had. So, it's sort of a complete utilitarian approach to the situation where the morality of some of the means used is ignored to tried to get the group to an end - which, on their belief, is some sort of rescue. So with that thought process in mind the group is solely a "do whatever it takes to hang on". I thought the doctor was a great emblem of that with his indirect murder of the new patient/doctor.

One of my wife's big gripes with the show though is that in every group they encounter there is some sort of total sociopath doing horrific things. For example we've seen a raging narcissist, cannibals, and now a rapist.
totally agree.

maybe that's where my problem is more than running into other groups. it's Lord of the Flies over and over... I'd prefer something else. :shrug:
Well...

NEXT TIME, ON THE WALKING DEAD:

Rick and the gang run across a large group of survivors on their trek to DC. Among them a man who is really good at growing vegetables, a woman who is really quite pleasant, and a group of teenagers who respect their elders. *BUT*, is there more to this group than meets the eye? No.

TUNE IN!
Would be kind of cool if Rick and Co. were the ### holes once.

 
tdoss said:
Doc also mouthed off to one of the guards...so that's gotta factor into his thinking that they may discard him if other doc us healthy.

I just don't buy a woman being ok with these guys raping people but I guess you can't always have a male bad guy...so this is their solution.

Problem is that it's just not believable. Why would the guards accept her as leader? You've got a guard actually mouthing off about how it would be best to have another leader...anyone but her...right in front of her. I just didn't buy her being leader. Where is her power? What is the consequence of not taking her orders if you're a guard?
Right...she should have popped him in the dome right there.
I think it's the combination of her having always been in second commend to the previous leader (who she apparently killed) and the begrudging understanding of the group that she's be equipped to lead. Furthermore, it sounds like she at least tries to reward the others in the group (i.e. condoning their rape) so that's probably enough to keep her in power by default.

 
Worm said:
El Floppo said:
Zow said:
pantherclub said:
So help me out here. The "hook" of the hospital is that they capture people to make them work? Thats it? No breeding ground, no crazy killers they just need cheap labor? Seems like an odd angle.
I don't really think so. To me it's actually made way more sense than the Terminus cannibalism or even the governor thing. The group recognizes strength in numbers and has embraced the do whatever is necessary to survive. Therefore they need people but lack the emotional sympathy they might have otherwise had. So, it's sort of a complete utilitarian approach to the situation where the morality of some of the means used is ignored to tried to get the group to an end - which, on their belief, is some sort of rescue. So with that thought process in mind the group is solely a "do whatever it takes to hang on". I thought the doctor was a great emblem of that with his indirect murder of the new patient/doctor.

One of my wife's big gripes with the show though is that in every group they encounter there is some sort of total sociopath doing horrific things. For example we've seen a raging narcissist, cannibals, and now a rapist.
totally agree.

maybe that's where my problem is more than running into other groups. it's Lord of the Flies over and over... I'd prefer something else. :shrug:
Well...

NEXT TIME, ON THE WALKING DEAD:

Rick and the gang run across a large group of survivors on their trek to DC. Among them a man who is really good at growing vegetables, a woman who is really quite pleasant, and a group of teenagers who respect their elders. *BUT*, is there more to this group than meets the eye? No.

TUNE IN!
Would be kind of cool if Rick and Co. were the ### holes once.
They kind of were with the priest.

 
Worm said:
El Floppo said:
Zow said:
pantherclub said:
So help me out here. The "hook" of the hospital is that they capture people to make them work? Thats it? No breeding ground, no crazy killers they just need cheap labor? Seems like an odd angle.
I don't really think so. To me it's actually made way more sense than the Terminus cannibalism or even the governor thing. The group recognizes strength in numbers and has embraced the do whatever is necessary to survive. Therefore they need people but lack the emotional sympathy they might have otherwise had. So, it's sort of a complete utilitarian approach to the situation where the morality of some of the means used is ignored to tried to get the group to an end - which, on their belief, is some sort of rescue. So with that thought process in mind the group is solely a "do whatever it takes to hang on". I thought the doctor was a great emblem of that with his indirect murder of the new patient/doctor.

One of my wife's big gripes with the show though is that in every group they encounter there is some sort of total sociopath doing horrific things. For example we've seen a raging narcissist, cannibals, and now a rapist.
totally agree.

maybe that's where my problem is more than running into other groups. it's Lord of the Flies over and over... I'd prefer something else. :shrug:
Well...

NEXT TIME, ON THE WALKING DEAD:

Rick and the gang run across a large group of survivors on their trek to DC. Among them a man who is really good at growing vegetables, a woman who is really quite pleasant, and a group of teenagers who respect their elders. *BUT*, is there more to this group than meets the eye? No.

TUNE IN!
Would be kind of cool if Rick and Co. were the ### holes once.
They kind of were with the priest.
Out of necessity, post-Terminus

 
Worm said:
El Floppo said:
Zow said:
pantherclub said:
So help me out here. The "hook" of the hospital is that they capture people to make them work? Thats it? No breeding ground, no crazy killers they just need cheap labor? Seems like an odd angle.
I don't really think so. To me it's actually made way more sense than the Terminus cannibalism or even the governor thing. The group recognizes strength in numbers and has embraced the do whatever is necessary to survive. Therefore they need people but lack the emotional sympathy they might have otherwise had. So, it's sort of a complete utilitarian approach to the situation where the morality of some of the means used is ignored to tried to get the group to an end - which, on their belief, is some sort of rescue. So with that thought process in mind the group is solely a "do whatever it takes to hang on". I thought the doctor was a great emblem of that with his indirect murder of the new patient/doctor.

One of my wife's big gripes with the show though is that in every group they encounter there is some sort of total sociopath doing horrific things. For example we've seen a raging narcissist, cannibals, and now a rapist.
totally agree.

maybe that's where my problem is more than running into other groups. it's Lord of the Flies over and over... I'd prefer something else. :shrug:
Well...

NEXT TIME, ON THE WALKING DEAD:

Rick and the gang run across a large group of survivors on their trek to DC. Among them a man who is really good at growing vegetables, a woman who is really quite pleasant, and a group of teenagers who respect their elders. *BUT*, is there more to this group than meets the eye? No.

TUNE IN!
Would be kind of cool if Rick and Co. were the ### holes once.
They kind of were with the priest.
Out of necessity, post-Terminus
Right. That's kind of the point of the show.

 
tdoss said:
Doc also mouthed off to one of the guards...so that's gotta factor into his thinking that they may discard him if other doc us healthy.

I just don't buy a woman being ok with these guys raping people but I guess you can't always have a male bad guy...so this is their solution.

Problem is that it's just not believable. Why would the guards accept her as leader? You've got a guard actually mouthing off about how it would be best to have another leader...anyone but her...right in front of her. I just didn't buy her being leader. Where is her power? What is the consequence of not taking her orders if you're a guard?
Right...she should have popped him in the dome right there.
I think it's the combination of her having always been in second commend to the previous leader (who she apparently killed) and the begrudging understanding of the group that she's be equipped to lead. Furthermore, it sounds like she at least tries to reward the others in the group (i.e. condoning their rape) so that's probably enough to keep her in power by default.
It was an inorganic relationship though. You keep a patsy or an ineffectual leader so they can take the fall if the poop hits the fan. There's no reason for the people under her to even remotely acknowledge her as a leader.

 
tdoss said:
Doc also mouthed off to one of the guards...so that's gotta factor into his thinking that they may discard him if other doc us healthy.

I just don't buy a woman being ok with these guys raping people but I guess you can't always have a male bad guy...so this is their solution.

Problem is that it's just not believable. Why would the guards accept her as leader? You've got a guard actually mouthing off about how it would be best to have another leader...anyone but her...right in front of her. I just didn't buy her being leader. Where is her power? What is the consequence of not taking her orders if you're a guard?
Right...she should have popped him in the dome right there.
I think it's the combination of her having always been in second commend to the previous leader (who she apparently killed) and the begrudging understanding of the group that she's be equipped to lead. Furthermore, it sounds like she at least tries to reward the others in the group (i.e. condoning their rape) so that's probably enough to keep her in power by default.
It was an inorganic relationship though. You keep a patsy or an ineffectual leader so they can take the fall if the poop hits the fan. There's no reason for the people under her to even remotely acknowledge her as a leader.
But she's not a patsy or ineffective. She killed off their last horrible leader. She preserves their individual needs (office/art, women, etc.). And, they don't appear to be in immediate danger of walkers or being replaced so like as they do their jobs.

They may not like her much, but she's doing some things "right".

 
I was going to post that I think the show wants us to believe that men will rape way to easily, but then I remembered that you hear about 3rd world country armies doing it all the time. So I guess it's not unrealistic.

 
tdoss said:
Doc also mouthed off to one of the guards...so that's gotta factor into his thinking that they may discard him if other doc us healthy.

I just don't buy a woman being ok with these guys raping people but I guess you can't always have a male bad guy...so this is their solution.

Problem is that it's just not believable. Why would the guards accept her as leader? You've got a guard actually mouthing off about how it would be best to have another leader...anyone but her...right in front of her. I just didn't buy her being leader. Where is her power? What is the consequence of not taking her orders if you're a guard?
Right...she should have popped him in the dome right there.
I think it's the combination of her having always been in second commend to the previous leader (who she apparently killed) and the begrudging understanding of the group that she's be equipped to lead. Furthermore, it sounds like she at least tries to reward the others in the group (i.e. condoning their rape) so that's probably enough to keep her in power by default.
It was an inorganic relationship though. You keep a patsy or an ineffectual leader so they can take the fall if the poop hits the fan. There's no reason for the people under her to even remotely acknowledge her as a leader.
But she's not a patsy or ineffective. She killed off their last horrible leader. She preserves their individual needs (office/art, women, etc.). And, they don't appear to be in immediate danger of walkers or being replaced so like as they do their jobs.

They may not like her much, but she's doing some things "right".
But what jobs did they have to do? If she's one who insists that the order of law must me maintained because they're going to have to rebuild (or get back into society when they're rescued) why engage in anti-social activities to maintain a sembalance of order? Why save some people and then get rid of others, or beat Beth or want to have leverage on the Dr. or even go with the whole "company store" angle that keeps people in perpetual slavery?

It's another "ends justify the means" society that doesn't break any new ground. So hers allows the impressement of "comfort women" as its dirty secret.....how's that even compare to the justification of depravity in the name of order in other societies Rick and Co. have come across?

 
Zow said:
tommyboy said:
Zow said:
pantherclub said:
So help me out here. The "hook" of the hospital is that they capture people to make them work? Thats it? No breeding ground, no crazy killers they just need cheap labor? Seems like an odd angle.
I don't really think so. To me it's actually made way more sense than the Terminus cannibalism or even the governor thing. The group recognizes strength in numbers and has embraced the do whatever is necessary to survive. Therefore they need people but lack the emotional sympathy they might have otherwise had. So, it's sort of a complete utilitarian approach to the situation where the morality of some of the means used is ignored to tried to get the group to an end - which, on their belief, is some sort of rescue. So with that thought process in mind the group is solely a "do whatever it takes to hang on". I thought the doctor was a great emblem of that with his indirect murder of the new patient/doctor.

One of my wife's big gripes with the show though is that in every group they encounter there is some sort of total sociopath doing horrific things. For example we've seen a raging narcissist, cannibals, and now a rapist.
not sure why that would surprise you, This is a lawless society, so the base nature of man can come out. We're only a few laws and a few cops away from becoming tribes that rape and kill and plunder
Clearly, we fundamentally disagree on the base nature of man.
that's kind of the underlying theme of the entire show. Rick used to be a cop, now he's doing revenge killings.

 
tdoss said:
Doc also mouthed off to one of the guards...so that's gotta factor into his thinking that they may discard him if other doc us healthy.

I just don't buy a woman being ok with these guys raping people but I guess you can't always have a male bad guy...so this is their solution.

Problem is that it's just not believable. Why would the guards accept her as leader? You've got a guard actually mouthing off about how it would be best to have another leader...anyone but her...right in front of her. I just didn't buy her being leader. Where is her power? What is the consequence of not taking her orders if you're a guard?
By her giving them her tacit approval they can go on raping without feeling guilty.

 
tdoss said:
Doc also mouthed off to one of the guards...so that's gotta factor into his thinking that they may discard him if other doc us healthy.

I just don't buy a woman being ok with these guys raping people but I guess you can't always have a male bad guy...so this is their solution.

Problem is that it's just not believable. Why would the guards accept her as leader? You've got a guard actually mouthing off about how it would be best to have another leader...anyone but her...right in front of her. I just didn't buy her being leader. Where is her power? What is the consequence of not taking her orders if you're a guard?
By her giving them her tacit approval they can go on raping without feeling guilty.
But there was no real characterization that these guys even remotely regretted being rapey. The main officer that they focused on was as one dimensional as a cardboard cut out.

 
ghostguy123 said:
Zow said:
Clearly, we fundamentally disagree on the base nature of man.
In case you haven't noticed, the rather overwhelming majority of "good" people are not the type that survive this.
I don't see why a rapist would be more or less better equipped to survive this world than someone who wasn't one. I get that those with the willingness to kill one to save a few will be more likely to survive, but I don't see why the survivors have to be truly malevolent.

Nonetheless, I'd argue that there's a huge gap on the scale between Mother Theresa and the true sociopaths they have leading these groups. You know, kind of like where Rick and Carol fall.
The world turns people into sociopaths.

 
tdoss said:
Doc also mouthed off to one of the guards...so that's gotta factor into his thinking that they may discard him if other doc us healthy.

I just don't buy a woman being ok with these guys raping people but I guess you can't always have a male bad guy...so this is their solution.

Problem is that it's just not believable. Why would the guards accept her as leader? You've got a guard actually mouthing off about how it would be best to have another leader...anyone but her...right in front of her. I just didn't buy her being leader. Where is her power? What is the consequence of not taking her orders if you're a guard?
By her giving them her tacit approval they can go on raping without feeling guilty.
But there was no real characterization that these guys even remotely regretted being rapey. The main officer that they focused on was as one dimensional as a cardboard cut out.
Right, they don't have to have any regrets because the boss lady is cool with it (ala the Stanford prison experiment).

 
tdoss said:
Doc also mouthed off to one of the guards...so that's gotta factor into his thinking that they may discard him if other doc us healthy.

I just don't buy a woman being ok with these guys raping people but I guess you can't always have a male bad guy...so this is their solution.

Problem is that it's just not believable. Why would the guards accept her as leader? You've got a guard actually mouthing off about how it would be best to have another leader...anyone but her...right in front of her. I just didn't buy her being leader. Where is her power? What is the consequence of not taking her orders if you're a guard?
By her giving them her tacit approval they can go on raping without feeling guilty.
But there was no real characterization that these guys even remotely regretted being rapey. The main officer that they focused on was as one dimensional as a cardboard cut out.
Measure once, cut twice, amirite?

 
I was going to post that I think the show wants us to believe that men will rape way to easily, but then I remembered that you hear about 3rd world country armies doing it all the time. So I guess it's not unrealistic.
It's only in the last couple hundred years that it was unacceptable to rape during war. It wasn't even considered a crime against women, it was a property crime - the term 'rapine' means the violence taking of property.

 
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I feel like I'm missing something. Like Beth knows more than the viewer.
Yep. I thought this was a strange episode last night, but I chalked it up to me being drunk while they were introducing a bunch of new characters. Then I went back and rewatched it a little while ago and it's still really weird and disjointed. There are a few moments when Beth casually alludes to stuff that we're not privy to at all, and I still don't quite get who the two dead people were. (Not the doctor -- I got that one -- the other two). But it's almost as if this episode was intentionally disorienting. Not necessarily a complaint.

 
For a minute there at the end I thought we were going to have another Shane/Otis moment with Beth and Will Smith in the parking lot.

At one point she looks back at him when the walkers were coming towards them and I thought she might shoot him in the leg to get away.

 
I feel like I'm missing something. Like Beth knows more than the viewer.
Yep. I thought this was a strange episode last night, but I chalked it up to me being drunk while they were introducing a bunch of new characters. Then I went back and rewatched it a little while ago and it's still really weird and disjointed. There are a few moments when Beth casually alludes to stuff that we're not privy to at all, and I still don't quite get who the two dead people were. (Not the doctor -- I got that one -- the other two). But it's almost as if this episode was intentionally disorienting. Not necessarily a complaint.
Glad someone else felt this way too. My wife and I were :confused:
 
I liked it more the second time I watched it but still think it was the weakest episode of the season so far. The Carol reveal at the end was still the highlight for me.

 
comfortably numb said:
stbugs said:
comfortably numb said:
stbugs said:
comfortably numb said:
so....lets nerd this up.

How far is ATL from the house where they picked Beth up?

For some reason I thought they were pretty far away from ATL
Based on a quick nerd search, looks like about 80 miles from Atlanta +/- 10 miles based on where in Atlanta that hospital is. If they have fueled up cars and a decent route setup, it probably is no more than an hour or so.
an hour...on the freeway with all the parked cars?
What parked cars? Do you recall the CDC episodes or Glen meeting Rick's escape? We have only ever seen pockets of cars blocking roads or parked cars on one side of the freeway. Outside of that one patch that turned into the farm season, all other highway travel has been unimpeded. It is OK to drive on the other side now. When I say an hour, I am thinking it could be within an hour or so of driving time today. Yes, some stops here and there, but not far enough away to make it implausible.
guess so.

Just struck me as odd to have these guys travelling that far away for....not sure what they were even doing there in the 1st place.
Maybe that was one of their pickup spots. Remember that place may have been closer to Atlanta than Terminus. It was clean and stocked with some food. I think it was a trap place where they picked up people. I don't think it was random.
 
If she's one who insists that the order of law must me maintained because they're going to have to rebuild (or get back into society when they're rescued) why engage in anti-social activities to maintain a sembalance of order?
Because it's the end of the world and she is delusional...................ur overthinking this

 
snogger said:
Harry Manback said:
bigbottom said:
I thought the episode was a nice change of pace. The doc killing the other doc was an interesting angle.
I kinda thought it was stupid.

Why on earth would it be bad to have 2 doctors?!? More the better I'd think.
Unless you are not a very good doctor and the only reason they let you live is because you at least have the Doctor title.. Seemed many don't really like/trust him and would easily send him packing if they didn't need him. :shrug:
same situation as Walter having to kill Gale in BB

 
I'm kinda annoyed at the weekly cliff hanger they're trotting out in the last 5 minutes of each episode. Its fine once in a while, but not cool on a weekly basis.

 
Did anyone else notice a guy standing on the roof of a bldg in the background when the Dr guy and Beth were talking on the roof?

 
I liked it more the second time I watched it but still think it was the weakest episode of the season so far. The Carol reveal at the end was still the highlight for me.
ugh. i missed the carol reveal.

when was that?
At the very end.... She was wheeled into the hospital on a gurney.
Right as Beth looked to be doing some Dr. Killing?
ugh, missed the whole thing

last i saw beth was getting caught and will smith slipped through the fence.

Did they do that dumb commercial break after that scene and back to the scene i missed?

Could have sworn it went to commercial after the scene i saw. I want to avoid previews so changed the channel.

 
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Did anyone else notice a guy standing on the roof of a bldg in the background when the Dr guy and Beth were talking on the roof?
Yep. Looked like he was holding a rifle.
Was he part of the hospital group or ?
I figured he was one of the cops and guarding the hospital. But I didn't give it much thought.
That's what it looked like to me.
You could be right. I just noticed he was higher up and looked a little off in the distance compated to Beth and the Dr

 
I liked it more the second time I watched it but still think it was the weakest episode of the season so far. The Carol reveal at the end was still the highlight for me.
ugh. i missed the carol reveal.

when was that?
At the very end.... She was wheeled into the hospital on a gurney.
Right as Beth looked to be doing some Dr. Killing?
ugh, missed the whole thing

last i saw beth was getting caught and will smith slipped through the fence.

Did they do that dumb commercial break after that scene and back to the scene i missed?

Could have sworn it went to commercial after the scene i saw. I want to avoid previews so changed the channel.
:shrug: Was a "Normal week".. 5 minutes until end, commercial break, come back for 2 or 3 minutes and then go to previews.. But you always have time at that point to switch away.. Seems you jumped the gun.

It was only week one where they did the "Next week" previews and THEN came back to show Morgan.

 
Kind of interesting that there aren't more babies around considering the potential lack of condoms, lack of active abortion clinics and the level of rapes going on. Although you could consider people doing away with babies as they would draw walkers. Also, from a pure TV production perspective, you wouldn't want too many babies floating around as they would handcuff the story/movement somewhat.
Most everyone is dead. Might have something to do with it.
Only need two. My point is that the environment would suggest a much higher pregnancy rate that normal.

 
Beth hasn't seen Carol since Rick banished her. I wonder if she knows Carol killed Karen and David, could be an interesting scene.

 
Kind of interesting that there aren't more babies around considering the potential lack of condoms, lack of active abortion clinics and the level of rapes going on. Although you could consider people doing away with babies as they would draw walkers. Also, from a pure TV production perspective, you wouldn't want too many babies floating around as they would handcuff the story/movement somewhat.
Most everyone is dead. Might have something to do with it.
Only need two. My point is that the environment would suggest a much higher pregnancy rate that normal.
What do you need for healthy development of a fetus? 9 months without the mother dying, good nutrition, rest, lower stress, regular checkups etc. Not exactly describing this world.
 
At the hospital they say they 'rescued' Beth by picking her up as she was fighting a zombie, but wasn't she in the house the last time Daryl saw her?

 
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At the hospital they say they 'rescued' Beth by picking her up as she was fighting a zombie, but wasn't she in the house the last time Daryl saw her?
She was running out of the house at Daryl's command. Very easily could have been fighting a walker on the road. She did remember fighting with the walker. I do agree they probably drugged her as well, and they definitely saw Daryl and left him because he is a physical threat.
 
I think she "remembered" via suggestion. There wasn't a walker where Beth had dropped what she was carrying in the road.

 

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