Who here is talking about influenses? Think, ok?
Why talk trends?
I just reread the original post, how I missed this is a mom talking and not the father...????
I apologize.
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Parenting teen boy problem. Please advise. (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Clown Car
- Start date
Why talk trends?
I just reread the original post, how I missed this is a mom talking and not the father...????
I apologize.
Binky The Doormat
Footballguy
We pegged you as MC Gas within a few posts, CC doesn't need your kind of "assistance."
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
It’s not usually about expectations, it’s about consequences.
You think he doesn’t understand consequences, but if you think he’s a perfectionist he clearly does. He’s just focusing on consequences you’re not.
What those are will be different for every family and ever person. But whatever they are, they scare him a lot more than losing his computer privileges. And he needs them to not happen so much he’s made you think he thinks he’s perfect. Because he’s trying to convince you.
Run an IP check I just found this place.
For some reason I was thinking CC was the father, yep....DUH~~~~~~~~~~~
Clown Car
Footballguy
Awww. You remember the eunuch days!! That makes me happy.
You may not have kids but you were once a 15/16 yo boy, I assume. I’m looking for that insight. That’s why I have kept coming to the ffa all these years. To get the insight of men talking to each other not really noticing that I may be here.
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Clown Car
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I asked about his intelligence level because if he has the capabilities you’ve indicated he may have, at 16 I was this kid.
The issues in my house were no doubt very different than yours - my upbringing was not good. And there were some very specific things for me to deal with. Whatever his issues are, if he’s a really smart kid, he’s had a mind capable of dissecting and reformulating the world in ways any adult he’s been willing to speak to about it probably wouldn’t understand and no emotional maturity or context to show him how outside of reality it has taken him.
And truth be told, I would say you need to find someone as smart as he is and knowledgeable about psychology and development whom he trusts not to talk to you about it that he can talk to.
Clown Car
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
For me, it started when if I (or one of my siblings) wasn’t perfect my stepfather would beat the hell out of my mother while telling her it was my fault. And hers for not being a better mother.
I obviously don’t think that’s what’s happening in your house. But that’s what mattered to me. And the suggestion that consequences short of that like being grounded even existed on the same level as that was so ridiculous as to be laughable.
I obviously don’t think that’s what’s happening in your house. But that’s what mattered to me. And the suggestion that consequences short of that like being grounded even existed on the same level as that was so ridiculous as to be laughable.
Clown Car
Footballguy
Clown Car
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Meh. Long time ago. I’m just saying if he’s a perfectionist something in his head is way more important than those video games. That much more important.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
To add to this (and Henry):
Intelligence and Wisdom are not the same thing. It's not exact, but I like to think of intelligence as being more capacity related and wisdom as being real life application.
Teenagers can have great intelligence while lacking wisdom. There are all sorts of things working against teens as far as wisdom goes. Not only has their pre-fontal cortex not fully developed, hormones do all sorts of destructive things. Hormones make teens impulsive and unable to think long-term. Testosterone makes one unable to properly assess risk. When you add in a healthy dose of simply lacking life experience, it leads to a real lack of wise choices for most teens.
NutterButter
Footballguy
Tell him that if he doesn't shape up, you're going to replace him with a new kid.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
Curiously, why was your husband/his Dad being kept in the dark here at first?
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Courtjester
The Town Drunk
I will chime in with my .02. I think you have done the right thing with the computer, but you need to give it a time frame so he understands the action vs consequence. Open ended punishments don’t teach kids IMO. My rationale is you have to have a next level punishment for him in case his messes up again. I learned this from our first daughter—we would go scorched earth on her when she screwed up, but the problem was, when she did it again, we had no way to escalate the next punishment. She would just hand me her phone and go “I know. I know.” Always leave yourself a next level so he can see how actions have consequences—so maybe this first round it is four weeks without a computer. Next time eight weeks.
i don’t know if you can talk to his employer ahead of time, but if you could, maybe see if she would agree to keep him on a probationary term. As was pointed out, being fired will impact his future big time and while as an adult, that is a natural consequence of stealing, putting a teenager behind the eight ball this early on may not be in his best interest. Also maybe have her stress that she debated calling the cops—maybe that will trigger a whole higher level of fear in him. Having to go back and earn trust is a bigger lesson here than just being fired and not having to face her on a daily basis.
Again just my opinion.
i don’t know if you can talk to his employer ahead of time, but if you could, maybe see if she would agree to keep him on a probationary term. As was pointed out, being fired will impact his future big time and while as an adult, that is a natural consequence of stealing, putting a teenager behind the eight ball this early on may not be in his best interest. Also maybe have her stress that she debated calling the cops—maybe that will trigger a whole higher level of fear in him. Having to go back and earn trust is a bigger lesson here than just being fired and not having to face her on a daily basis.
Again just my opinion.
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
I had a very similar thing happen with my oldest son who is 24 now. I believe he was 17 when he stole $60.00 cash from a friend of mine. He was working landscaping for this friends small business. It was a horrible experience made even worse by the victim being a close friend. My friend fired my son on the spot but was cool about it. He talked to him about it and asked why he did it. My son did not have a good answer. We are not now nor have we ever been well off financially and I think he just wanted some cash to buy little things. Anyway I also talked with him and he was very remorseful and upset. He got a new job and while he did not steal there was other lying that I caught him in. While I loved him and always will I became very disgusted and it was difficult to deal with. He graduated highschool and then went to full time playing guitar, video games, sitting on my couch and eating. I set up some rules and goals for him. He did not meet them. I then told him that this could not go on. I told him he had to go. I gave him a decent amount of time to find a place to live and figure it out. This was by far the most difficult thing I have had to do as a parent. I just did not know if I was sending him off to death or homelessness or the best learning experience ever. I remember just crying that night he left. He is now 24 has a decent job and apartment. More importantly he seems happy and gets it now. We have talked about that and he has told me I did the right thing- phewwwww
* I was thrown out of my house at age 17. Combination of being a #### head 17 year old and having a #### for a father. I was homeless for about 6 mos? maybe longer. It was a very difficult time in life and is something I would not wish on anyone. I probably could have done better in life but here I am. I was rescued off the streets by a highschool friends family who saw me one day. They allowed me to live at their place if I followed some basic rules. Cut my hair, clean up, get a job, no drugs. After living on the streets and all that comes with it I was all in on that.
* I was thrown out of my house at age 17. Combination of being a #### head 17 year old and having a #### for a father. I was homeless for about 6 mos? maybe longer. It was a very difficult time in life and is something I would not wish on anyone. I probably could have done better in life but here I am. I was rescued off the streets by a highschool friends family who saw me one day. They allowed me to live at their place if I followed some basic rules. Cut my hair, clean up, get a job, no drugs. After living on the streets and all that comes with it I was all in on that.
Not to rain on your parade but 25 years ago scores don’t matter. When I went to college around that time I scored a 1400 (I think I got 1320 on PSAT). That was high enough that it was above or equal the average score for any college, including Stanford or Harvard (I went to a top school). My old score is below average at some of the top state schools. Harvard and the lots have average scores above 1500 on a test where 1600 is perfect.
Not saying 1200 is bad at all, it’s I should go to college scores, but it’s not the same as 25 years ago as schools are sort of geared towards those types of tests now with end of year testing starting in 3rd grade around here. UNC Charlotte is just an OK school around here (well below UNC, NC State, SC and Clemson) and their average SAT is about 1200.
My son is a senior so I’m well versed in SATs right now!
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skol asylum
Footballguy
bigmarc27
Footballguy
As an aside, the video game thing is crazy over the top now. I enjoy playing video games when I have time and it’s a great stress reliever, but I swear it’s insane how much teens play today. Over Christmas we were just hanging out and chatting. Two teen cousins spent literally the entire time watching people play Fortnite on their phones. At one point they got annoyed by the talking and went to a bedroom where they could watch Fortnite in peace. It was well past being a hobby, it was an obsession. It boggles the mind.
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Frostillicus
Footballguy
The best advice I can give you is never ask for parenting advice from this board.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
You saw the part where I said it doesn’t translate anymore, right?
Also, the PSAT and SAT have different percentile scoring systems. And there are two different types of PSAT which each has a different percentile scoring system.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Polish Hammer
made of glass
I have a 12-year old son (almost 13) going through a similar but more age-relatable issue. He has ADHD and impulse control issues, for which he has received lots of therapy in his earlier years as well as medication. He is very intelligent and gifted in school. Over the last 6-12 months we've noticed a lot of lying, breaking rules, and being sneaky to cover it up. When caught he has gotten increasingly frustrated with himself (both for doing the wrong thing and for being caught). Most recently I found out he charged over $100 to my credit card for add-ons to video games through Google Play. When confronted with this issue he ended up screaming at himself because he was so mad at having done it and not controlling himself, along with other issues that seem to show genuine remorse.
For the punishment we went multi-layer. First, he would do his chores WITHOUT the normal pay until the full amount was paid off. This amounted to many months. Second, all "fun" apps on his phone/tablet have been blocked for at least two weeks, possibly through the end of the month. Third, all other video games (XBox, Wii) are disallowed for the same time period.
One thing we learned from talking with other parents who went through similar things is another strategy which will be employed if we have a repeat episode. If needed, we will remove him from one of his favored activities (scouting, school musical) for an appropriate period of time. Additionally, when that happens he'll need to go to one of the adult leaders of that activity and explain to them what he did that is causing him to miss out on participation. Knowing our son, that will be a very embarrassing and sad event that he will NOT want to have to do. You mentioned your son not wanting some people to know of his transgressions - maybe something like this could be helpful?
Lastly, we are going to start him on getting Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. This has been brought up in the past by a developmental pediatrician we have worked with for years. It has also helped friends of ours with their children. We explained this to him and he accepted it as he wants to break the pattern. I just wanted to lay all this out in case it can help you in any small way, @Clown Car. I don't know if we are doing the right stuff, but like you we are trying.
For the punishment we went multi-layer. First, he would do his chores WITHOUT the normal pay until the full amount was paid off. This amounted to many months. Second, all "fun" apps on his phone/tablet have been blocked for at least two weeks, possibly through the end of the month. Third, all other video games (XBox, Wii) are disallowed for the same time period.
One thing we learned from talking with other parents who went through similar things is another strategy which will be employed if we have a repeat episode. If needed, we will remove him from one of his favored activities (scouting, school musical) for an appropriate period of time. Additionally, when that happens he'll need to go to one of the adult leaders of that activity and explain to them what he did that is causing him to miss out on participation. Knowing our son, that will be a very embarrassing and sad event that he will NOT want to have to do. You mentioned your son not wanting some people to know of his transgressions - maybe something like this could be helpful?
Lastly, we are going to start him on getting Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. This has been brought up in the past by a developmental pediatrician we have worked with for years. It has also helped friends of ours with their children. We explained this to him and he accepted it as he wants to break the pattern. I just wanted to lay all this out in case it can help you in any small way, @Clown Car. I don't know if we are doing the right stuff, but like you we are trying.
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Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
As an addendum to my above, intelligent kids that lack wisdom benefit greatly by having someone take the time to sit with them and help them process things. Simply taking away priviledges to punish isn't going to be nearly as beneficial as taking them away and actually explaining what you're helping you train their brain that short-term actions can, and do, have longer-term consequences that aren't always readily apparent when you make a decision. When he made the impulsive decision to steal, he certainly wasn't thinking about losing priviledges or costing himself career opportunities. So his punishment now is to help him encode his brain to think beyond the short-term.
That won't necessarily make an intelligent kid happy, but it WILL help them think through things more.
Along with that, I would help them process the long-term emotional consequences of lying and deceipt. The temptation to thinking through long-term consequences could be to come to the conclusion to simply do a better job of not getting caught. Where that leads long-term though is carrying a burden of keeping track of lies, feeling shame, damaging relationships and trust when found out, etc. It's your job to convince your kid, through reason and sharing your life experience, that simply doing the right thing in the first place is worth it.
Lastly, one of the greatest lesson any young person can learn (or anyone else for that matter), is that long term big gains ALWAYS require short-term sacrifice. You will never get what you ultimately want if you constantly indulge in short-term thinking and behavior. IMO, that's the crucial first step in becoming a wise person.
That won't necessarily make an intelligent kid happy, but it WILL help them think through things more.
Along with that, I would help them process the long-term emotional consequences of lying and deceipt. The temptation to thinking through long-term consequences could be to come to the conclusion to simply do a better job of not getting caught. Where that leads long-term though is carrying a burden of keeping track of lies, feeling shame, damaging relationships and trust when found out, etc. It's your job to convince your kid, through reason and sharing your life experience, that simply doing the right thing in the first place is worth it.
Lastly, one of the greatest lesson any young person can learn (or anyone else for that matter), is that long term big gains ALWAYS require short-term sacrifice. You will never get what you ultimately want if you constantly indulge in short-term thinking and behavior. IMO, that's the crucial first step in becoming a wise person.
matuski
Footballguy
Asking about the other children knowing how influenses work was being an ahole?
I was thinking CC was a father, yep...DUH~~~~~
My first thought was a spoiled brat being the only boy.
Dedfin
Footballguy
He's trouble.Good luck Clown Car. I was a troubled kid in HS. I got lucky and the Army accepted me. But it's very true about what they ask you and they will find things out. If he decides to enlist, it's an honesty test, not a purity test. They don't expect all enlistees to be angels, but they don't want liars.
matuski
Footballguy
I can't psycho analyze it or describe the development of a frontal cortex or different parts of the brain. My take is way more technical:
We used to say things like "he just needs to grow up". I know this described me all the way beyond college.
My personal method when my kids (a little younger) screw up is to address it directly, deliver the consequences, remind them that even at their worst moments I am here for them and love them. In return I expect them to acknowledge and demonstrate understanding, be accountable. People make mistakes, bad decisions. Learning to handle it with basic business maturity is important to me. I will hold them to this expectation their entire lives.
For what little this helps, that is my 2 cents. Sounds like a good kid.. good luck!
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coyote5
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
Good luck CC... I honestly can't imagine how you handle your flick en masse, let alone all the day to day parenting stuff like this.
Mine are 7 and 11 and austensably good kids... But still young and only 2 of them- so a little easier to handle the day to day for us.
In my limited experience we try to treat them with respect and explain as clearly as possible what they did and how and why it was wrong- for us a family and for society. So far (knocking on any wood possible) it's worked, but I know their ages inherently prohibit worse behavior. I'm trying to learn with/from you guys so when we get there, I'll have more arsenal to work with.
Tldr... Be clear about how/why he messed up expalining everything, including the punishment.
Mine are 7 and 11 and austensably good kids... But still young and only 2 of them- so a little easier to handle the day to day for us.
In my limited experience we try to treat them with respect and explain as clearly as possible what they did and how and why it was wrong- for us a family and for society. So far (knocking on any wood possible) it's worked, but I know their ages inherently prohibit worse behavior. I'm trying to learn with/from you guys so when we get there, I'll have more arsenal to work with.
Tldr... Be clear about how/why he messed up expalining everything, including the punishment.
Punxsutawney Phil
Footballguy
I think OP is overreacting. The stealing was stupid & embarrassing, but I think he learned his lesson. It was impulsive, a cheap pair of headphones that did seem unused. Obviously, it was wrong, and he knows it. The cheating at school. Meh... Everybody does / did it. Look at the bright side, he held his educational responsibility in such a high regard that he would do whatever it takes to make sure the task is accomplished. Sure he went about it the wrong way, but it's much better than just blowing it off completely.
Maybe try some positive reinforcement instead of negative. Like as long as he doesn't steal anything for a month you will take him to an arcade. Or, if he doesn't cheat all semester you will take him to Chuck-E-Cheese
Maybe try some positive reinforcement instead of negative. Like as long as he doesn't steal anything for a month you will take him to an arcade. Or, if he doesn't cheat all semester you will take him to Chuck-E-Cheese
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dgreen
Footballguy
That's definitely a possibility. But, it also seems that he doesn't think mom saying "no video games" actually means he can't play video games. I haven't read through the whole thread but the OP said he's still playing games behind @Clown Car 's back. I remember when I was a kid I'd get grounded sometimes and wasn't allowed to play outside with friends. Well, I knew what times my parents got home, so sometimes I'd play with friends until I knew my parents were getting home and then make sure I'm inside when they get there. In other words, the punishment didn't fully exist if I could get away with violating it. If I told my kids no video games and they still played, I'd unplug the systems and hide it from them for a while. If they violated that, I'd throw it away.
The OP also said:
@Clown Car Why can't you regulate that? If it's something that can change behavior for the better, take it away. He'll survive without it.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Let's hear all about your 4 kids.
Let me guess:
1) 24 year old MIT grad with a 6 figure job right out of college who was promoted from junior associate to VP within the first year.
2) High School Senior, Cum Laude Society with perfect SAT scores, with two successful start-ups under their belt as they head off to Princeton
3) Junior in HS, a 5-sport star, captain of every team they have ever been on, who spends free time in between practice volunteering at the local shelter and saving local wildlife through a charity they created
4) 8 year old (the only "mistake" you've ever made in life) musical and artistic prodigy who was the featured pianist at Carnegie Hall when they were 5, and rakes in tens of thousands per month from their adorable, million-plus-subscribed YouTube channel.
All raised by a mom (or are you the dad?) who can't spell.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
There's potentially a lot to unpack in this scenario, and my hypotheses are merely hypotheses.
She may get lucky and it'll just turn out he's gay and terrified of people finding out.
dgreen
Footballguy
Yes. Straight forward discipline probably works on like 99% of kids (totally made up that statistic), but it's possible something else is going on that typical punishments won't change behavior. If he continues to act out despite discipline, then maybe something hidden is going on.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
He's been repeatedly caught cheating in online classes, caught stealing from his job, and caught breaking the rules of his discipline. I may have wrongly assumed the cheating had consequences, but it does seem that he is continuing to act out despite discipline. At age 16.
coyote5
Footballguy
Sorry just trying to make you a better person. Right or wrong, people judge you on things like that. They might look at your careless mistake and think, wow this guy is a complete and utter moron and in doing so dismiss your sage nuggets of advice. That would be unfortunate. It's easy to lash out at those who point out your mistakes, to feel attacked or diminished, but I've found the best thing to do is look inward. Find the lesson, learn from it and be even better moving forward. HTH
Kanil
Footballguy
I can confirm this. I work for a company that does the majority of background checks (at all levels from your standard background check to the highest security clearances you can get) for the DOD, gov civilians, and most of the intelligence community. We WILL find out the things you want to hide and if you try to hide them, it will be bad. You can do a lot of bad stuff and still get cleared as long as you're honest about it.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Yeah, wisdom requires intelligence, knowledge, and honesty.
"A knowledgeable man can justify his beliefs with facts. A wise man decides what he believes based on the facts."
General Malaise
Footballguy
I cannot believe you guys are feeding this alias troll.
Jayrod
Footballguy
I've got a 12 year old boy who is already leaning towards being shady and thinking he knows it all. He's obsessed with Fortnite now and is pushing every angle to get more time to play the game. On one hand, it makes it easier to control his behavior as he learned that obeying his parents right away leads to more time playing. On the other, I trust him only as long as I can see him.
I'm not looking forward to when he hits puberty and goes into Jr. High next year. We have already agreed to get him a phone, so the pandora's box is about to open. My wife is constantly working on his character (it helps that she has one of the highest characters of anyone I've ever met) and we are usually on the same page with raising the kids. He's got a fighting chance to be a good kid, but it wouldn't take much at all to send him on a bad path.
I certainly don't know it all, but my experience has taught me that it takes consistency, love and some luck to push kids in the right direction. Still feels like so much out of our hands by the teenage years that it is more important who the kids spend their time with than what it is they are actually doing together.
I'm not looking forward to when he hits puberty and goes into Jr. High next year. We have already agreed to get him a phone, so the pandora's box is about to open. My wife is constantly working on his character (it helps that she has one of the highest characters of anyone I've ever met) and we are usually on the same page with raising the kids. He's got a fighting chance to be a good kid, but it wouldn't take much at all to send him on a bad path.
I certainly don't know it all, but my experience has taught me that it takes consistency, love and some luck to push kids in the right direction. Still feels like so much out of our hands by the teenage years that it is more important who the kids spend their time with than what it is they are actually doing together.
