Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Patriots looking for a 1st and 4th for Garoppolo (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JohnnyU
- Start date
This was a non-story speculative running of the mouth from the very beginning. Now at 6 pages....sheesh.....
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Bossman
Footballguy
1st rd pick seems reasonable. Consider the rookie QB's available with that pick.
.
What the talking heads fail to acknowledge is the fact that the Patriots do not have a say on where Garopollo plays should they keep him for the last year of his contract next year. Other than franchising him (which they're not going to do for a backup. Too much money to franchise a QB. Salary cap hit would be huge).
.
As a free agent, he would be in line for a starting gig and fat money somewhere other than NE. Garopollo would have no reason to want to stay in NE and warm the bench. If the Pats kept him on the roster next year he's as good as gone and they get nothing in return.
.
Pats will take that 1st and parlay it into a 2nd, a 3rd, and two 4ths (some in 2018). Likely grab their next starting QB with one of those picks ... along with LB, OL, and a TE. The rich get richer.
.
What the talking heads fail to acknowledge is the fact that the Patriots do not have a say on where Garopollo plays should they keep him for the last year of his contract next year. Other than franchising him (which they're not going to do for a backup. Too much money to franchise a QB. Salary cap hit would be huge).
.
As a free agent, he would be in line for a starting gig and fat money somewhere other than NE. Garopollo would have no reason to want to stay in NE and warm the bench. If the Pats kept him on the roster next year he's as good as gone and they get nothing in return.
.
Pats will take that 1st and parlay it into a 2nd, a 3rd, and two 4ths (some in 2018). Likely grab their next starting QB with one of those picks ... along with LB, OL, and a TE. The rich get richer.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Schefter has made a career of being a media conduit for coaches and GMs. If he put it out there, the odds are pretty high that he was being used by BB to float it.
Crystalsteam99
Footballguy
You most likely just saying your a Pats fan is my guess and probably haven't even watched JG play..Compared to what other QB's are out their.JG has more upside than any free agent QB out there. JG looked really good in his 2 games this year.He looked better than 1/3 of the QB's in the league. He's deff worth a 1st round pick and more..With how bad the QB situation has been in the NFL,some team will have no problem trading a 1st round pick for him...Plus JG has been coached and mentored by the greatest coach and QB of all-time and it showed in his 2 starts this year!
captain_amazing
Footballguy
Regardless, no team with half a brain is doling out a 1st and 4th for Jimmy. I could see a low first, in terms of value, but what team has a low first that needs a QB like Jimmy? He's going to get traded for a 2 and 3 or a pick and player (to be named later....). Mark it down.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Its surely a valid point that the teams with late firsts likely dont need a QB (except maybe Houston), and while I think you're likely right about what the price tag will end up being....
A team like Cleveland could move Philly's potential top 10 pick for a team's late first and say a 2018 second and third and then move that first for Garropolo, so a team that needs a QB could acquire a late first to make it work, much like teams often trade back into the late first to get a guy they like.
Last edited by a moderator:
Funny thing is, as a Patriots fan, it's become typical to be disappointed in the returns Belichick gets in these trades. The biggest homers alive were still amazed that Collins went only for a conditional third.
I remember basically this same debate when it was time to move Cassel: JG has physical gifts that everybody knew Cassel didn't, but still, a 2nd rounder for a starting QB AND a core defensive player (Vrabel)?
Maybe Belichick can't make trades anymore unless he doesn't ask for anything. So many GMs fear for their jobs, they can't risk getting blatantly ripped off by the Emperor himself.
For those reasons alone I bet JG goes for a 2nd rounder even though there's no question he's the top QB prospect/addition for the 2017 offseason and should easily command a 1st rounder and change.
I remember basically this same debate when it was time to move Cassel: JG has physical gifts that everybody knew Cassel didn't, but still, a 2nd rounder for a starting QB AND a core defensive player (Vrabel)?
Maybe Belichick can't make trades anymore unless he doesn't ask for anything. So many GMs fear for their jobs, they can't risk getting blatantly ripped off by the Emperor himself.
For those reasons alone I bet JG goes for a 2nd rounder even though there's no question he's the top QB prospect/addition for the 2017 offseason and should easily command a 1st rounder and change.
Last edited by a moderator:
FUBAR
Footballguy
Jimmy might be the best among the FA, trade draft, but there's absolutely question about that opinion. In a vacuum I like Kizer most but (like most players) he will need a good coach and system. Taking into account the price (pick/salary) I'd rather my team sign Glennon than trade for jimmy or draft a qb in the 1st this year.
If my team is close to contending, I'd want Romo but understand that's a very short window.
If any of these guys land in Cleveland without a major OL overhaul they're in trouble.
We can pretty much guarantee at least 3 QBs will be drafted ahead of whatever pick gets jimmy.
Last edited by a moderator:
Workhorse
Footballguy
I watched both of his starts. Certainly some potential there but if you asked any team if they would trade a first and a fourth for Jimmy G vs say, signing Tyrod Taylor as a free agent, they would take the latter any day of the week. Much lower risk with a far more extensive body of work.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Workhorse
Footballguy
Um...why?
He's been healthy at the end of the season 2 of the last 6 seasons.
A guy like Gronk, with his injury history, will fall off the cliff quickly.
We know Bill B sees that cliff before others.
If NE happens to win it all without Gronk the odds of this scenario unfolding increase even more.
This would not surprise me one bit.
Spike
Footballguy
First, he was in no way prompted to say it. It was an "Oh my!" type of thing that took the announcers by surprise.
Second, these people need to be in the forefront of the news. If they make mistakes along the way, I don't think they mind. I think he's making an educated guess. Look at how things go for QBs in the NFL now.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I was only partly paying attention when Schefter was discussing this on the radio. I got the impression that if MIN would trade a 1st and a 4th for Bradford (at the time he had a career record of 25-37-1, never won more than 7 games in a season, with a career passer rating of 80.1), then NEP should be able to get that for Garappolo (who is 2-0 with a 106.2 QB rating in limited use).
There are a lot of teams that haven't done much in years, and a lot of that falls on the QB. It only takes one team that wants him that could overpay for him.
There are a lot of teams that haven't done much in years, and a lot of that falls on the QB. It only takes one team that wants him that could overpay for him.
BoulderBob
Footballguy
The Pats aren't getting the number 3 pick in the draft for him, but I see him ending up in Chicago. Possibly the 33rd overall pick and next years second.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Again, if a team has tried to land a QB and hasn't hit on one, I am guessing they will be willing to over pay. For example, in the what have they really done in the past decade category:Riversco said:
Buffalo drafted 2 QBs in the first round since 2004 and started 9 different QBs since 2007.
Chicago drafted 1 QB in the first round in 2003, traded 2 other first rounders to get a QB, and stared 10 different QBs since 2007.
Cleveland drafted 3 QBs in the first round since 2007 and started 16 different QBs since 2007.
Los Angeles drafted 2 QBs in the first round since 2010, traded another first rounder to get a QB, and started 14 different QBs since 2007.
Jacksonville drafted 3 QBs in the first round since 2003 and started 8 different QBs since 2007.
Minnesota drafted 2 QBs in the first round since 1011, traded another first rounder to get a QB, and started 13 QBs since 2007.
The point being, there are teams out there that have tried and tried to get a QB . . . and haven't been able to. And for some of those teams, they have struggled to win. Someone will think enough of Jimmy G to want to go get him and probably offer too much.
The Bradford trade isn't justification, but it shows you how QB desperate teams have become. I don't expect this trend to reverse.Buckna said:
As a NE fan, I hope they don't trade him. I've watched his limited real game action and his preseason action and this guy passes the eye test. Quick as all hell release, accurate, mobile. In my mind, he has a great chance to be their next long term solution at the position.
Now if any other GM remotely feels the same way, they'll overpay.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Why would you laugh? He was a second round pick and has looked good in very limited action. I can see a team giving up a 1st round pick for him.Riversco said:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The fact he was a second round pick doesn't mean anything as far as his trade value now, but it helps show he was considered a good prospect as a rookie who lived up to his billing. He's not coming out of nowhere.
Right, and he isn't some college kid that hasn't played snaps against NFL talent. He's been very successful in his two starts this year - forget about pre-seaon and mop up duty where opponents aren't trying as hard or are as skilled by benching their starters.
LOL all you want, but teams like CLE, CHI, BUF, etc. need that stability of a QB they can build around.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Playing well in two games for the best coach in the league and one of the best OC doesn't mean he's lived up to his billing.
massraider
Footballguy
I'm sure many teams will be looking for the stability of a guy in the last year of his deal, with two career starts.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
A team won't have to shell out big money if Garoppolo doesn't work out next year. If he does really well, then sure, the team would have to pay him, but then he would be worth starter money. If he turns into Brock Osweiler, the sequel, then the team is out what they traded for him and the $885K he is due for next year.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
They would be better off giving him a test run at a bargain price and then franchising him for a season. They could work something out before he signs the tag, or just wait another season and then work something out.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
There have been plenty of wasted first round picks on QBs in recent years . . . Manziel, Manual, RG3, Wheeden, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Tebow, Sanchez, Freeman, Russell, Quinn, Leinart, etc. Some teams have used a ton of picks to move up in the draft, and who knows how some of those moves will turn out. There's no guaranteed a first round pick will work out (no matter what the position).
If Garoppolo were traded, there could be plenty of things that could make it more palatable. Say the trade were a 2017 4th and a 2018 first for Jimmy G. and a 2013 third.
flapgreen
Footballguy
flapgreen
Footballguy
Tons of picks blown in first round. That's not the point. They have years to work with their first round picks. I don't think they're going to trade a high pick and then base signing him long-term on his first season. That wouldn't make sense. If you trade a high pick for the guy, you're in it for the long haul. Trading for the guy means you're investing a first rounder and a significant chunk of your salary cap. That's more than I think anyone will offer.
Last edited by a moderator:
Yenrub
Footballguy
[SIZE=9pt]I agree with this. On its own the Patriots getting a 1st round pick for JG sounds like its way to much but when you look at the rookie class of QB’s it does seem so farfetched.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Walter Football has a mock draft up that has Mitch Trubisky going #2 to SF and DeShone Kizer going #3 to Chicago [/SIZE]
Thunderlips
Footballguy
If you're investing a 1+ in him...I don't think you go into the final year without the ability to keep him long term...franchise tag ability or not.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Why? It would make fiscal and football sense. They'd in essense get two seasons paying him an average of $7-8MM to evaluate him and decide if he deserves starting QB money.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
CLE 1
SAN FRAN 2
CHI 3
JAX 4
JETS 6
BUF 10
CLE 12
AZ 13
WAS 17
DEN 20
HOU ?????
You'll have 4 that are drafted (Kiser, Trubisky, Watson, Webb) with the idea that they should eventually become starters. Cousins will go another one of those teams. Are DEN and JAX really looking for QBs at that 1+ cost? Granted, both teams are looking at a change in their HC and thus aren't tied to the QBs of the past regime....but Bortles, Lynch and Sieman are young enough that a QB Coach could come in there and work with them. I certainly don't think JAX lets the #4 go for JG...and NE doesn't have enough picks to make a trade for it worthwhile (nevermind the idea that NE might not even value the 4 at that cost). Romo's also out there, and a team like DEN might be more inclined to not give up 1+ for JG and pay a lesser price for Romo. I also think that a QB like Brian Hoyer is a cheaper alternative to a team not on the rebuild...but who excells in other facets (D and/or Running) and who is looking for a game manager (Maybe AZ....the Jets with Fournette). Maybe Ryan Fitzpatrick is also a guy like that.
AZ is intriguing....as they are a competitive team not in the middle of a rebuild who could use a young QB.
CLE is intriguing.....but, I'm not sold that they aren't willing to give RGIII another chance. At any rate, I'm also not sure that #12 straight up for JG is in their philosophy.....maybe JG + NE's 1st rounder for 12.
flapgreen
Footballguy
You keep leaving out they're losing a first round pick. No matter the success rate, the rookie wage scale makes draft picks extremely valuable now.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
From what I'm seeing (using Goff from last year) a rookie taken 1 overall would be averaged at less than 7M for 4 years...with a 5th year option. If you don't think(know) that JG is going to be your man.......or at the least be better than a rookie QB (taking into account the extra cost it will cost to keep JG in years 3 and 4 AND the picks you gave up to get him.....), you're financially better off taking the rookie.
It doesn't help the JG is worth 1+ argument if you don't think he's a future starting (and good) QB in the NFL.
Last edited by a moderator:
