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Patriots looking for a 1st and 4th for Garoppolo (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter JohnnyU
- Start date
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I'm pretty sure evil bill would trade Brady for 3 1st rd picks at this juncture. Or at least he should.
Gandalf
Footballguy
Sure if the Pats are going to punt on the next couple of years. Which they aren't so he won't. Unless... they really think Garropolo is their next starting QB. But he's not so they won't. Far more likely they trade Jimmy G.
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massraider
Footballguy
Once people are talking about trading an MVP candidate iconic QB because of the 6 Quarters of Heaven Kid, we have officially crossed the Rubicon.
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Gandalf
Footballguy
A lot of mock drafts out.
Mitch Trubisky, who many think is more of a project, is seen landing top 5 if not #2 with SF.
D. Watson, who was key in the Clemson championship (but who many consider more of a 2nd-3rd rounder) seen as a top half of draft QB.
Rumors also of CLE and HOU being interested in Jimmy.
Anyone thinking NE can't get a first round draft pick for Jimmy G are insane.
In this win now environment, would you really draft Mitch at #2 vs trade for Jimmy G? I just don't think so.
Mitch Trubisky, who many think is more of a project, is seen landing top 5 if not #2 with SF.
D. Watson, who was key in the Clemson championship (but who many consider more of a 2nd-3rd rounder) seen as a top half of draft QB.
Rumors also of CLE and HOU being interested in Jimmy.
Anyone thinking NE can't get a first round draft pick for Jimmy G are insane.
In this win now environment, would you really draft Mitch at #2 vs trade for Jimmy G? I just don't think so.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
My spidey sense is telling me that the Pats would trade their own 2017 first rounder (pick 31 or 32) and Jimmy G to the Browns for the #12 pick and a mid round pick and would take RB Leonard Fournette.
The issue with that might be Fournette may not last until pick 12. I have seen him go as high as 3rd overall in some mocks. The Jets also seem to be projected as a potential landing spot if they don't take a QB.
And I am not sure the Pats would go all the way up to the SF's #2 pick to draft a RB. I guess it will depend on how they read the tea leaves.
The issue with that might be Fournette may not last until pick 12. I have seen him go as high as 3rd overall in some mocks. The Jets also seem to be projected as a potential landing spot if they don't take a QB.
And I am not sure the Pats would go all the way up to the SF's #2 pick to draft a RB. I guess it will depend on how they read the tea leaves.
Boston
Footballguy
Interesting...I keep thinking they really don't want a first-rounder due to the money and the ability to get more picks...especially since BB/Caserio seem to have found their fastball again in those middle rounds...if they did get to #12 it would be beyond intriguing...as for RBs Fournette is a big-time prospect but I could see Dalvin Cook turning into Thurman Thomas in their offense...
Anarchy99
Footballguy
When the league implemented the new rookie pay scale system, having an early first is no longer really all that cost prohibitive. It only gets pricey if teams elect to take the fifth year team option. A lot of this is putting the cart before the horse, as we need to see who they can re-sign on defense, who they might add in free agency, and where their holes may be. Those are the easier things to identify. What we won't know is what positions they think there is depth at in the draft, who they like in the mid rounds, and what hoodie is thinking.
They could just as easily go move up and take a D lineman or edge rusher, which would also make a potentially huge impact. It's normally hard to guess what they will do, but especially so this year with a lot of guys signed to short term deals or needing to get new contracts.
They could just as easily go move up and take a D lineman or edge rusher, which would also make a potentially huge impact. It's normally hard to guess what they will do, but especially so this year with a lot of guys signed to short term deals or needing to get new contracts.
Boston
Footballguy
I hear ya about the pay but I always think BB would rather move out of the first and net multiple picks for cheaper contracts...kind of like he did with the Vikings a few years ago...I don't think you can rule out TE either...with Gronk's injury history it is becoming very apparent that the Pats need to be very deep at this position...having Bennett this year saved their butt in a big way...even if they resign Bennett I think TE is a possibility...one of the few times BB traded up in the first-round was for a TE (Graham)...as you pointed out D-line is always a possibility...Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Brown, Chandler and Easley were all first-rounders and everyone of them except Easley worked out very well...you can never go wrong drafting for this unit...I would have zero issues adding a legit pass-rusher...that is one area they can improve upon...
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
As the Belichick Pats go to their 7th Super Bowl with but ONE high-priced, showtime skill-position star (tho acquired for a 4th rder due to 'tude probs) in the history of their dynasty, i dont see BB going that way now. He may go high-pick if he likes a passrusher, but would likely prefer volume so he can let the defensive squarepegs sign elsewhere for market value and take a whole new set of roundpegs.Anarchy99 said:
Boston
Footballguy
I would never assume anything about BB because the guy is the master of surprise...whether it is the draft, letting players go or who he brings in anything is on the table...he has used a #1 before on a RB (Maroney)...he has used #1's on TE's (Graham and Watson)...he has brought in big names at skill positions as well in Moss and Dillon (there are others like Ochocinco but these two are the ones that were still in their prime)...while I do think he loves the volume and that is where I would put my money on if he sees someone is a potential difference-maker (I think he felt that way about Mayo) anything is on the table...
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
Again, I have heard rumblings that NE will be looking to make their backfield more dynamic and harder to read next year. Who knows how accurate that is, but in their 15 year run, they really did not have an all around 3 down back. They tried Faulk in that role one year with limited success Maroney was drafted thinking he might be that guy but that didn't pan out
I think that would make the offense even tougher to defend. Looking at the recent teams, defenses would know if Blount was in the game, he was not a receiving threat. If White was in the game, he wasn't a running threat. Lewis has been able to do both, but he struggled to stay heathy. While he has gotten more carries late in the season, I would not classify him had a heavy workload back. He reminds me of a more skilled version of Danny Woodhead.
If the Pats added someone that could run inside, run outside, catch, and pass protect, opponents would struggle where to position people.
That also would help Brady transition to being a wily veteran and not make him pass 50 times a game some games.
Put another way, put Le'Veon Bell on the Patriots and they would probably be favorites against any team.
I have seen a lot of mocks where New England picks a safety with their own pick, so trying to sniff this one out is really nothing more than anyone's best guess.
I think that would make the offense even tougher to defend. Looking at the recent teams, defenses would know if Blount was in the game, he was not a receiving threat. If White was in the game, he wasn't a running threat. Lewis has been able to do both, but he struggled to stay heathy. While he has gotten more carries late in the season, I would not classify him had a heavy workload back. He reminds me of a more skilled version of Danny Woodhead.
If the Pats added someone that could run inside, run outside, catch, and pass protect, opponents would struggle where to position people.
That also would help Brady transition to being a wily veteran and not make him pass 50 times a game some games.
Put another way, put Le'Veon Bell on the Patriots and they would probably be favorites against any team.
I have seen a lot of mocks where New England picks a safety with their own pick, so trying to sniff this one out is really nothing more than anyone's best guess.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Crazy how inflated a player can get when two teams show interest. We started this discussion with many saying no way NE would get a 1st, much less a 1st and more for this guy.
Here we are now talking about two teams interested and the price might be increasing. Houston makes a lot of sense. I think I agreed with this as a potential destination but also was cautious because I can't see HOU going back for seconds at the unproven backup buffet. And mortgaging even more in the process.
IMO giving up Watt and a 1st would basically cripple the defense... Can NE even afford Watt's salary??? Kind of ridiculous to start throwing names around without looking at salary cap implications. However, I agree that Watt is likely on the decline, as much as I like the guy his body is breaking down fast. Spine surgeries worry me.
I think he eventually ends up in Cleveland. Crazy. NE has some great front office people to turn stone into gold this often. It's why NE continues to be relevant in the league... they always have 3-4 picks in the first 2 rounds. It looks like NE will get a king's ransom for this guy, and if they do congrats to them and more power to them for being able to do this yet again.
Here we are now talking about two teams interested and the price might be increasing. Houston makes a lot of sense. I think I agreed with this as a potential destination but also was cautious because I can't see HOU going back for seconds at the unproven backup buffet. And mortgaging even more in the process.
IMO giving up Watt and a 1st would basically cripple the defense... Can NE even afford Watt's salary??? Kind of ridiculous to start throwing names around without looking at salary cap implications. However, I agree that Watt is likely on the decline, as much as I like the guy his body is breaking down fast. Spine surgeries worry me.
I think he eventually ends up in Cleveland. Crazy. NE has some great front office people to turn stone into gold this often. It's why NE continues to be relevant in the league... they always have 3-4 picks in the first 2 rounds. It looks like NE will get a king's ransom for this guy, and if they do congrats to them and more power to them for being able to do this yet again.
Warhogs
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I'm not trying to pick on you, but man... most teams in the NFL are looking for this same combo. There are maybe 5 teams with a RB who can run inside, run outside, catch, and pass protect. You kind of act like that's easy to find...just draft one, right? you of all people should know how hard it is to find a RB with that kind of talent.
Put Le'Veon Bell on the Packers and they would probably be favorites against any team
Put Le'Veon Bell on the Giants and they would probably be favorites against any team
Put Le'Veon Bell on the Seahawks and they would probably be favorites against any team
Put Le'Veon Bell on almost half the teams in the NFL and they would probably be favorites against any team... NE isn't special in that case. Bell is. I think all teams are looking for that 3 down back that dominates every aspect of the game and forces defenses to focus on them...
Boston
Footballguy
Houston makes sense because they are in a jam with Osweiler and they are kind of built to win now...Garropolo's low money would allow them to address the QB position while still keeping Osweiler which seems to be unavoidable due to his contract...next year they can cut Osweiler and if Jimmy G works out they will have zero issues paying him...the x-factor here is if the Pats think Jimmy G is legit do they want to send him to an AFC team with a big time D that appears to be a QB away from being a serious contender...
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Certainly most teams would rather have Bell than you they have. That was an extreme example. I was angling more for his type of skill set. If someone truly like that were available in the draft and the Pats moved up and snagged him, they would be an even greater favorite to win the SB next year (they already are the favorite). That type of player would cause the offense to score more, and he likely would likely contribute to scoring less (better time of possession and longer sustained drives). But to get that type of player with that pedigree and expected impact, a team is going to have to invest a top pick (Top 5? Top 10? Top 12?).
I don't know if there truly is that kind of a back available, but it looks like there could be a couple of candidates coming into the league this year. Who knows if BB will see other players he likes better or if he sees better value in the middle rounds and opts out of using a first round pick.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I'm sure teams will be interested . . . it remains to be seen what teams would give up to acquire him.
We will know a lot more as we get closer to the draft. For example, there is always a slim chance that TB12 calls it a career if he wins a 5th ring. Then JG becomes the starter and he won't be going anywhere. I don't see that happening, but it has to be on the list of possible outcomes.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
If the Pats could snag Fournette or Cook then they should be favorites to win it all next year. I'm not 100% sold they will draft a RB 1st... but I won't pretend to know what's going on with the NE Patriots. I just know they always seem to make something out of someone from the trash heap. Doug Martin is serving a 4 game suspension but would come cheap and is young and talented enough that I wouldn't be surprised to see NE go after him. Maybe Jaquizz Rodgers. Tim Hightower. There are a lot of options who could do well for a cheaper price and allow NE to focus on keeping that defense top notch.
RB is deep this class. I would expect NE to draft a RB but I don't know if thye would do so round 1. I am hoping my Packers can land a RB in round 2 or 3. Maybe McCaffery, Foreman, or even Mixon I'd be thrilled with in spite of his one incident. All 3 could be something special and wouldn't necessarily require a 1st round selection.
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wikkidpissah
Footballguy
More 'rules by exceptions'. This is why there are so many bad head coaches and so much fuzzy, reactive thinking throughout life these days - pattern recognition & reverse engineering are just so darn hard! BB is a success because he tracks the tendencies of others, creates algorithms and re-sets, re-sets, re-sets. But he is as trackable as any other entity and there are patterns of the last decade into which he's grooved. The major one is that instinctive talent creates variables which create more problems than plusses. That is why he has cashiered far more singular talent than he's acquired lately. If your talent is within your role, luv it. If it transcends, it'll leave some flank exposed that we do not acquire territory and win battles by exposing. Go'way, you. Get, me a soldier, lieutenant.
We'll talk again in 2020 so you can tell me bout the teens....
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I didn't hear the interview, but it sounded like the logic was a solid QB makes a team far better than a DE does, they already had the #1 defense without him, he is at the point where he could be an injury risk, and they would get out from under his giant contract and would free up cap space. While all of those things might be somewhat true . . . I just don't see a Watt and first round pick for JG as a logical conclusion..
Warhogs
Footballguy
The Texans are stuck with Osweiler for 2017 but in 2018 they could cut Osweiler and save 15 million with 6 million in dead money. If they traded for Garoppolo they would seem to almost have to ride it out in 2017 and get a one year audition and then pay him a big contract in 2018 after cutting Osweiler. That would at least give them a one year test drive before a potential big contract. My gut tells me that in the end Houston doesn't go hard after Garoppolo or at least hard enough after getting burned on O this last year.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I agree. This makes sense; Houston not going for him and just biting the bullet and hoping Osweiler does better in his second year in the system. Or just start Savage... he wasn't that bad. Just have to keep him in one piece.
I do believe Cleveland is the only one seriously interested in this and I think they will get it done and prove why they are a perennial loser in the NFL. They will over pay and JimmyG will bust. Matt Cassel all over again, although I concede they are not the same kind of player or same risk.
I don't see SF interested... too many holes and a QB in a contract year is not a way to turn that fracnhise around. Finding a stop gap veteran QB to start a season or two while you groom your own guy makes better sense. Plus there is the system to consider. Cleveland is actually not that far away from being a decent team. I'd argue CLE and CHI are about equal in terms of being not that far away from being not terrible. Chicago I don't see going for Jimmy because they have Cutler and can draft their own guy at 3 and develop him rather than be forced to play Jimmy and face a potential second face plant at the QB position. Yes, the draft isn't guaranteed but I'd rather take my chances on a guy I can mold into my own system than a guy who has done well in a system that no other QB has come out of besides Tom Brady and done well in the NFL.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
I'm not very knowledgeable in Shanny's offensive scheme. And I'm really not knowledgeable with JimmyG's skill set... I feel like what we've seen is very limited and I'm very cautious against betting the farm on a guy who is really an unknown. I could see if NE has produced tons of QBs who have went on to do well, but their history does not support it. Sure, QBs do well in BB's system. We know that. But they don't seem to do well in other systems thus far. If JimmyG is a good candidate for Shanny's offense then yes I would reverse my standing on them being interested. However I think a top 5 pick is a real steep price to pay...
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The problem for a lot of teams is that they may not want to invest in a QB . . . but they may have gotten nowhere for quite awhile without one. CLE drafted multiple first round picks without success. HOU just signed someone and that was a disaster. SFO already shot their load on Kaepernick. But all those teams need a QB (unless they have one that they want to stick with).
I doubt JG is worthy of a Top 5 pick, but in terms of being proven or not, what Top 5 rookie QB pick is ever proven?
grateful zed
Footballguy
i dont think G can be considered a franchise qb at this point.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
If the NFL started over and drafted from scratch Watt would be a top 10 pick. There is no logic in that and I've been a proponent of Garropolo throughout this thread.
But Mitch Trubisky can be drafted as such at #2?
If I'm a GM, based on what I've seen with my own eyes in NFL games, I'm trading for Jimmy G vs. drafting a "project" that has upside.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I'm not the one that suggested the Texans should trade Watt for JG. However, Watt may or may not be a Top 10 pick in redrafting the entire league given his current health and contract. He would be if he were healthy, even with his huge contract.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The Pats are projected to be $61.2 million under the cap next year. I think they'll be ok.
Don't necessarily disagree but money is a big factor. Compare Osweillers 72 M contract vs. Wentz 26 M.
Boston
Footballguy
I think the fact the Pats have a big group of free agents this offseason is getting confused as a cap issue by some...speaking of free agents there is a lot of money on the line for some of these guys...have a big game on Sunday and they could put themselves in a nice position to cash in...
Boston
Footballguy
IMO this is what makes Jimmy G so intriguing...he is not a free agent you have to risk handing out a big contract for like Osweiler or Flynn...
FUBAR
Footballguy
True, if the Browns can get him for the 33, I probably do that. If it costs the 12? I'd rather pay Glennon, see what McCarron costs, or roll another year with Kessler.
Boston
Footballguy
I keep hearing a #1 for the Pats but IMO that #33 pick has got to be gold for BB...right in his wheelhouse...now if the combines come around and the rookie QBs look bad and a bidding war for Jimmy G breaks out than his price could go up...but right now outside of the Texans the teams that on paper could be eying him have first-round picks that are just too high...getting that #33 and something else in the 2018 draft would be a nice return...I guess one other area that has not been looked at is if the Browns have any players the Pats could be intrigued by...I would say Haden but I think he has a monster deal...
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