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Patriots looking for a 1st and 4th for Garoppolo (3 Viewers)

The problem CLE has is they have to choose A qb, they can't choose the entire field of rookie qb's and select the best one using hind-sight. Which QB would you take with the #1 overall pick?

So now you are saying a signing bonus does count against the cap. Good. Progress. Take time out for a 5-hour-energy-drink and check twitter.
None of them. Be a fool to not take Garrett this year over a QB.  Be a fool to take JG (either via trade with NE or if JG were in the draft this year ) over Garrett this year.

12's a bit different.  At that point, with Trubinsky presumably gone.....looks like some mocks have Kizer and Watson falling to the back of the 1st/early 2nd.  If they like either of those guys.....I think Garrett + 12th pick BPA stud + Kizer/Watson with a late 1st/early 2nd is about as good as anyone could do.

If they don't like Kizer/Watson.....then 12 for JG is viable.....if they like JG. 

 
So now you are saying a signing bonus does count against the cap. Good. Progress. Take time out for a 5-hour-energy-drink and check twitter.


I know I am going to regret this given where you are taking this, but could you please provide a quote from me where I said otherwise?  I'll wait. TIA

 
So now you are saying a signing bonus does count against the cap. Good. Progress. Take time out for a 5-hour-energy-drink and check twitter.
I'll take a stab at this ... but I'm only guessing:

A signing bonus is paid to the player as an up-front lump sum ... so the player gets the money day one.

The cap hit of the signing bonus is spread out over the life of the contract to the teams benefit.

Which would be why Ricky Williams had to pay back millions of $$$ when he decided to retire mid contract (the first time). Signing bonus for the years on his contract that he did not play.

... and would be why players remain on the books even after they are cut from the team mid contract (Romo). Signing bonus cap hit still exists for the years left on the contract.

 
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Wait... the Browns got the 2nd round pick?

Stunner: Texans trade Brock Osweiler AND 2018 2nd-rd pick to CLEV for Browns to take Osweiler contract off Houston books, sources tell ESPN.

 
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12's a bit different.  At that point, with Trubinsky presumably gone.....looks like some mocks have Kizer and Watson falling to the back of the 1st/early 2nd.  If they like either of those guys.....I think Garrett + 12th pick BPA stud + Kizer/Watson with a late 1st/early 2nd is about as good as anyone could do.
exactly what I did in the mock draft thread    :bowtie:

 
And the Browns just got another valuable pick they could deal...at least that's my Patriots/Jimmy G conspiracy theory with nothing to back it up...
You're right. A likely late 2018 2nd is a pretty reasonable offer for Jimmy G. 

 
From crazy Mary Kay:

One league source close to the situation told cleveland.com the Browns' No. 12 likely won't get it done, and that the Patriots will want the Browns' No. 1 overall pick this year.

The thinking is that there are some top five players they want, whereas the No. 12 doesn't interest them as much. But the Browns will have no intention of doing that. They plan to take Myles Garrett No. 1 overall and won't want to part with the top pick for the 2014 second-rounder. 

The source said the Patriots will likely want a Browns' first-rounder this year and a first-rounder next year. 

In the end, it remains to be seen if the No. 12 and one or two of the second-round picks will get it done. 

In addition, the Browns must be able to sign Garoppolo to a lucrative long-term deal for the deal to work. The trade can be contingent upon the new deal being agreed to within three days. 
Lol

 
Ian Rapaport on the NFL Network right now saying that many teams around the league believe that the Browns are working on a big offer for Garoppolo leading up to the draft. Also said that the Pats aren't yet sold on Brissett as the main backup to Brady and aren't inclined to deal Garoppolo unless they are blown away by an offer.

 
Ian Rapaport on the NFL Network right now saying that many teams around the league believe that the Browns are working on a big offer for Garoppolo leading up to the draft. Also said that the Pats aren't yet sold on Brissett as the main backup to Brady and aren't inclined to deal Garoppolo unless they are blown away by an offer.
So another 7 weeks of this stuff?  Brilliant.

 
Ian Rapaport on the NFL Network right now saying that many teams around the league believe that the Browns are working on a big offer for Garoppolo leading up to the draft. Also said that the Pats aren't yet sold on Brissett as the main backup to Brady and aren't inclined to deal Garoppolo unless they are blown away by an offer.
Interesting note about Brissett...first time I have heard that...wonder if that is legit or a little smoke to make it seem like they need Jimmy G that much more...this potential transaction is turning into an episode of LOST...

 
Jimmy Garoppolo - QB - Patriots



The Cleveland Plain Dealer reports the Browns will continue to try to trade for Jimmy Garoppolo.
After the Brock Osweiler trade, Cleveland is armed with two 2017 first-round picks and two 2017 second-round picks, and a whopping three second-round picks in 2018. The Plain Dealer believes New England is asking for the No. 1 pick in this year's draft, while Cleveland is willing to offer the No. 12 pick, but perhaps not No. 1 overall. Either way, the Browns are armed to "blow the Patriots' socks off," and have not giving up on trying to acquire Jimmy G.

Related: Browns
 
Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer







 


 
 
#12 pick this year and 2 second round picks next year should get it done. Hopefully BB can hold off laughing until after he hangs up the phone with Cleveland.

 
Sorry, I just don't buy that the Browns would be willing to double or triple the amount that other teams are willing to offer for a guy who will be a FA next year. 

 
Sorry, I just don't buy that the Browns would be willing to double or triple the amount that other teams are willing to offer for a guy who will be a FA next year. 
The same head Coach (Hue Jackson) has overpaid for a QB once already (Carson Palmer to the Raiders)... he traded a 1st and a 2d for a player that was then traded for a 6th round pick one year later.

 
Cleveland would be stupid to give up more than the #12 for JG.  Go ahead Cleveland, make NE even stronger than they are right now.  You think JG will get you past the Pats in the playoffs?

 
One more interesting side note.  Since the Browns are ready to eat Osweiler's salary... couldn't they include Brock in an offer for Garrapolo with an agreement that they pay all of his salary?

 
It gives them a small amount of Brissett insurance... Plus, ya gotta believe that Belichek would love the chance to turn Osweiler into the second coming of Brady.  Its zero risk since its your 3rd string QB... if he fails, well everybody already thought he sucked... but if he succeeds, Belichek could piss on Lombardi's grave and the football world would still revere him.

 
If Cousins stays in washington playing under the tag, I think the Browns could easily pull back any offer they were thinking of making and hope they can land either Cousins or JG in FA next year.  

 
It gives them a small amount of Brissett insurance... Plus, ya gotta believe that Belichek would love the chance to turn Osweiler into the second coming of Brady.  Its zero risk since its your 3rd string QB... if he fails, well everybody already thought he sucked... but if he succeeds, Belichek could piss on Lombardi's grave and the football world would still revere him.
If they wanted to keep two QBs with a $30 million combined cap hit, they might as well just keep Garoppolo. They can find a bum off the street as a back up on Osweiler's level and not have to pay him $16 million. 

 
The same head Coach (Hue Jackson) has overpaid for a QB once already (Carson Palmer to the Raiders)... he traded a 1st and a 2d for a player that was then traded for a 6th round pick one year later.
Jackson coached Palmer at USC and again at Cinci and was intimately familar with him. Palmer was a former Heisman winner and 1st overall pick with decent success for being stuck with a historically dead-end franchise and he retired when they refused to trade him out of that steaming pile situation.

Similar to last year when Bridgewater went down and the Vikings were desperate, the 4-2 Raiders starting QB in Jason Campbell went down and the Raiders were desperate to salvage their season and got hosed on the trade. IMO, its not at all comparable to talking of trading for a guy in March.

Jackson lost his Oak job in large part because of that terrible trade, I doubt he'd be inclined to do it again.

 
#12 pick this year and 2 second round picks next year should get it done. Hopefully BB can hold off laughing until after he hangs up the phone with Cleveland.
As a Pats fan, I would take that.  And I know lots and lots around here (on the radio dial) feel "Ya gotta keep Jimmy, no matter what!"

 
If they wanted to keep two QBs with a $30 million combined cap hit, they might as well just keep Garoppolo. They can find a bum off the street as a back up on Osweiler's level and not have to pay him $16 million. 
I think you missed the point where I said that since the Browns are willing to eat his salary, the trade would include that the Browns pay the salary... Unless you are saying there is no way to avoid the cap hit.  

Is it impossible for the Browns to absorb the cap hit as part of the trade?

 
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I think you missed the point where I said that since the Browns are willing to eat his salary, the trade would include that the Browns pay the salary... Unless you are saying there is no way to avoid the cap hit.  

Is it impossible for the Browns to absorb the cap hit as part of the trade?
The Browns could convert part of his salary (say $10M) to a bonus and then trade him to a team who takes the remaining $6M hit.

 
So there are rumblings that Jimmy has just been traded. No details, no confirmation.

He posted

So grateful for my time in New England. Peace out Boston 
Has removed mentions of Patriots in his social media bios.

Not gonna pretend that most sports journalists aren't dumb.

 
I know I am going to regret this given where you are taking this, but could you please provide a quote from me where I said otherwise?  I'll wait. TIA
"As to a cap friendly deal, you put a large percentage into a signing bonus and this keep the overall number on the contract down."

This is false. 

 
I'll take a stab at this ... but I'm only guessing:

A signing bonus is paid to the player as an up-front lump sum ... so the player gets the money day one.

The cap hit of the signing bonus is spread out over the life of the contract to the teams benefit.

Which would be why Ricky Williams had to pay back millions of $$$ when he decided to retire mid contract (the first time). Signing bonus for the years on his contract that he did not play.

... and would be why players remain on the books even after they are cut from the team mid contract (Romo). Signing bonus cap hit still exists for the years left on the contract.
I completely agree with this.

Which is why the size of the signing bonus doesn't make the contract "cap friendly" or not, it doesn't keep the overall number on the contract down at all. The size of the signing bonus can have an effect on how the overall number is distributed from year to year but that doesn't change the overall number on the contract down.

 
I think you missed the point where I said that since the Browns are willing to eat his salary, the trade would include that the Browns pay the salary... Unless you are saying there is no way to avoid the cap hit.  

Is it impossible for the Browns to absorb the cap hit as part of the trade?
I was confused by the "they pay the salary" in your initial post. I took that to mean they = New England. 

 
"As to a cap friendly deal, you put a large percentage into a signing bonus and this keep the overall number on the contract down."

This is false. 


Okay.  Now I understand your position.  You don't understand cap management.  Perhaps I can provide an example to illustrate.

Let's say our team wants to sign (or extend) our QB.  We know the going market for a QB with our guy's skill set is about $20M per yer and we want to sign him for 5 years.  So now we need to figure out how to allocate the funds.

We could put 20% of the total $100M contract (5 years at $20M per year) into a signing bonus and then front load the contract a little.  Something like this:

Signing Bonus: $20M

Yr 1: $18M; Yr 2: $18M; Yr 3: $16M; Yr 4: $14M; Yr 5: $14

Or we can sweeten the deal up front and give the player a little less of an overall contract:

Signing Bonus: $40M

Yr 1: $6M; Yr 2: $10M; Yr 3 $10M; Yr 4: $12M; Yr 5: $16M

So we are paying the same QB $6M less overall over the same term.

Why is this second contract good for the player?  Because the guaranteed money is much more up front.  He's getting $20M more before he ever plays a down, and his overall compensation after 2 years is exactly the same.  That's a great lollipop given that players (and agents) know that a career can end at any time.

Why is it good for the team?  Well, beside paying the same player $6M less over the life of the contract, the cap hit early on is less: $9M less in Yr 1 (the annual plus the bonus split over 5 years) and $5M less in Yr 2.  When the cap hit starts getting greater it is very likely that the overall cap number will rise enough that the impact will be much less.  It also has some positive attributes if the team cuts the player late in the contract since it is back loaded.

The drawback for the team?  They are taking greater risk up front with that huge signing bonus.  It will cost them a lot more to cut the player if he craps out early or gets a career ending injury.  But that also is why the team can sell the smaller contract to the player.

This is a pretty simplistic example, but it happens all the time for cap savvy teams.  They understand how much risk they are willing to tolerate and they are rewarded long term in their cap management.

Hopefully this will help you understand how contracts can be adjusted to help both the team and the player in certain situations.

 
Shefter is reporting JG will NOT be traded.....period.  I hope this is true.

 
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That could mean a trade is imminent. If they're not going to trade him, though, it's because they like him that much, and if they like him that much, I hope they try to sign him to an extension now while they have the leverage of trading him to Cleveland.  Given that choice they might be able to get jg to agree to an extension where he gets less per year but gets the right to refuse a trade.  I'd rather have whatever Cleveland or Houston will offer than one year of his services, but I'd rather have him locked up for a few more years if they think he's that good.

 
Run It Up said:
So there are rumblings that Jimmy has just been traded. No details, no confirmation.

He posted


"So grateful for my time in New England. Peace out Boston" 


Has removed mentions of Patriots in his social media bios.

Not gonna pretend that most sports journalists aren't dumb.
I take this as, Patriots have given permission for CLE to talk to JG's agent.

JG and his agent are now in contract negotiations with CLE and have come to terms (pending a trade).

JG gets pizz drunk celebrating his new bazillion $ contract and tweets out his goodbye to NE at 4am.

This deal is all but done.

NE gives JG

CLE gives 1.12 /  2.20 / 2018 2nd (HOU)

 

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