Riddick02
Footballguy
Question is flawed....you increased the number of dogs so the sheer number will always increase, no matter if the breed is golden, lab, or bulldog. And again, pit bull is not a breed.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Pit Bull Poll (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
Ignoramus
Footballguy
Huh? The number of dogs is exactly the same. Every lab, ####zhu, poodle, etc. turns into what is widely-accepted in English vernacular to be a pit bull.
"According to DogsBite.org , a non-profit organization and national dog bite victims' group that tracks canine attacks in the USA, from 2005 to 2016, 392 Americans were killed by dogs in that 12-year period. "
That's all breeds. 392 deaths over 12 years. I understand that we don't want to see anyone die...especially from something preventable...but seriously, there are SO many more important issues to protest outrage over in regards to common ways people die that can be prevented.
Riddick02
Footballguy
Apologies...I misread. Still flawed though as again pit bull is not a breed. So you have given a broader range of dogs versus 2 specific breeds. Do I think certain breeds lumped under pit bull would be greater then those two specific notably docile breeds, probably. Do I think it would be any different than German Shephards, Dobermans, and multiple other breeds...nope.
Ignoramus
Footballguy
Ignoramus
Footballguy
Titans_fan
Footballguy
TLDR;
Not sure if it was mentioned, but one of the traits of the pit bull breeds is their fierce loyalty to their "person." They want to please their owner, and sometimes an attack is a perceived threat to an attack or danger to its owner.
All dogs can be trained to attack, and to an extent not attack, but they still have animal instincts. Any breed is equally as likely to attack, but training can severely limit the tendencies.
Not sure if it was mentioned, but one of the traits of the pit bull breeds is their fierce loyalty to their "person." They want to please their owner, and sometimes an attack is a perceived threat to an attack or danger to its owner.
All dogs can be trained to attack, and to an extent not attack, but they still have animal instincts. Any breed is equally as likely to attack, but training can severely limit the tendencies.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Discussed ad nauseum by people that simply dismiss it because they disagree with the data. It isn't perfect, but it is just as reliable as a blog.
The reason that link doesnt work in the blog is because that article isnt on the cdc site anymore.
But hey, when it suits your argument, it is all good to use a statement from a blog with no data behind it.
Riddick02
Footballguy
I did and I stand by it. Again its not exactly an apple to apple question (type generalization vs specific breed), but taking away the variable brought up in your question (ownership) and factoring in my definition of an average Pit Bull (cause again, its not a breed), it comes down to they're both domesticated animals that given proper circumstances could attack. Common circumstances like getting between a dog and its food, provoking/intimidating so it feels like its attacked/cornered, or trying to stop a dog fight.Ignoramus said:
modogg
Footballguy
I can’t wrap my head around why this discussion seems to be so adversarial and it can’t just be a normal dialogue? Do you know someone who was bitten by a “pit bull”. If so I’m sorry that happened.parasaurolophus said:
Good luck with your crusades here, but it would be nice if we could have a constructive discussion.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Do people really give that much of a #### about what kind of dog they have? To me...there's small, medium and large.....just get one of those.
Ignoramus
Footballguy
But my scenario removes the variable of ownership. The pro-pit bull crowd says it's not the breed, it's just bad owners. If all the good dog owners got pit bulls and all the bad dog owners got pit bulls the number of dogs doesnt change. Nor does the number of good dog owners or bad dog owners. Nor does the number nor nature of dog interactions.
The only change is the breed of every dog.
If it's just about the owners, we'd expect no change in the number of dog attacks vs. if all dogs suddenly became Great Danes or some other breed, right?
Riddick02
Footballguy
modogg
Footballguy
That’s what I did and have stumbled into this war of attrition
I think my dog’s paperwork said she was a boxer anyway so maybe I’m in the wrong thread 
Harry Manback
Footballguy
Pit Bulls that don't get adopted by bad owners are put down.
Bad owners are far less inclined to buy a golden retriever and try to get it to be a "Mean fighting dog"
Chihuahua attacks rarely make the news because they don't result it deaths. How are you quantifying dog attacks? Fatal or just in general? Most stats only account for fatalities, which is skewed towards breeds physically capable of causing a lethal bite.
Last edited by a moderator:
Harry Manback
Footballguy
What is the point? You can't prove a damned thing.
I would wager attacks don't change much at all, if you take all the ####ty hood tough guys who want a mean dog, give them labs and let them beat on, starve and torture the lab. If anything the attack incidence might increase as you'd have people approaching the "Nice Lab" more often than they'd approach the "mean pit bull" based purely on appearance and reputation.
Harry Manback
Footballguy
Anyone have any examples of a pit bull attack where the dog was raised by the owners as a puppy?
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Do you always wonder why people are adversarial when you call them f'in nuts? Do you wonder why they are like that when you take the stance that anybody opposing your view is completely uninformed and disregards "scientific" research? I don't think you actually wonder about this.
Vanilla Guerrilla
Footballguy
A poodle bit me when I was a kid. I was maybe 4. I did live through it, it took me down and bit the back of my leg. I was emotionally scarred, and still dislike dogs, especially tiny, high strung ones.
-jb-
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
According to this "expert" pit bulls have to be provoked in order to kill a woman like they did in virginia and gnaw on her ribs.
It's all the owners fault!!! I mean you took away their toy! My coonhound got under my feet at least once or twice in her life and I accidentally stepped on a paw and caused her some pain. Guess that makes me a bad owner and would have justified a mauling. Strange that she didn't bite my face or you know kill me and use my ribs as her new chew toy.
Sounds like a typical stance in this thread and the other one. I mean this guy is an expert so he must be correct. Right? Oh, what are these actions that could trigger a dog to attack you say?
Ok yeah that sounds pretty bad. I mean obviously you shouldn't kick dogs. People that do definitely deserve to get their ribs gnawed on a bit. Grabbing a dog by the neck is not a pleasant action either. That one could have some reasonable scenarios I guess where you could justify it, but by and large safe to say you shouldnt be grabbing a dog by the neck. What else? What are some other triggers that make owners responsible?
It's all the owners fault!!! I mean you took away their toy! My coonhound got under my feet at least once or twice in her life and I accidentally stepped on a paw and caused her some pain. Guess that makes me a bad owner and would have justified a mauling. Strange that she didn't bite my face or you know kill me and use my ribs as her new chew toy.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Another dead.
I assume there were bad owners, it wasn't actually a pit, and the dog showed all sorts of warning signs. That about sum up the excuses?
I assume there were bad owners, it wasn't actually a pit, and the dog showed all sorts of warning signs. That about sum up the excuses?
modogg
Footballguy
that's some good reporting. So, the actual story is police found a woman severely injured (who later died from her injuries) at a pet boarding facility. Sheriff's office reports they don't know why the woman was there (whether she worked for the pet boarding facility or was visiting a dog). Dog was released to some animal control place and they don't know status of the dog.
that is literally what the article says, almost verbatum. Yet you clicked on it because good old Fox news has Pit Bull in the title of the article, when the actual story mentions nothing about what happened, what breed of dog, how many dogs, etc., etc. I don't know how the heck the police can't tell if the lady worked for the facility or not being this occurred 3 days ago, and common sense would think she didn't because where were any other workers or anybody around to call the police maybe help her soon after the attack. For all we know, this could have been a lady on drugs who broke into a pet boarding place, and got attacked by a dog because she threw something at it or whatever. And there is absolutely no reference to an actual of breed of dog identified in any of this.
But do appreciate you posting this, because this is how a lot of articles seem to be. And i guess like a lot of things, people see a headline, get all giddy and run to tell others. Completely neglecting to take the 1 minute, 15 seconds it takes to actually read the content.
for those who don;t want to click, this is exactly what the article has:
Woman dies after being attacked by a pit bull in Louisiana
POSTED 1:46 PM, JANUARY 10, 2018, BY AP WIRE SERVICE, UPDATED AT 01:47PM, JANUARY 10, 2018
FACEBOOK286
WEST MONROE, La. — A woman was attacked and killed by a pit bull at a pet boarding facility in Louisiana.
A spokesman for the Ouachita (WAH-shih-taw) Parish Sheriff’s Office says the incident happened about 11 p.m. Tuesday at the Happy Hounds Hotel in West Monroe. Glenn Springfield says deputies dispatched found a severely injured woman who later died from her wounds.
On Wednesday, Springfield confirmed reports by multiple news outlets identifying the victim as Laura Williams Ray, of West Monroe. Springfield says he didn’t know whether the woman worked for the business or if she was visiting an animal being housed there.
A message left at the business Wednesday wasn’t immediately returned.
The dog was released to Ouachita Parish Animal Control. Springfield didn’t know the animal’s status. The investigation is continuing.
TRADEMARK AND COPYRIGHT 2018 THE ASSOCIATED PRESS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Ignoramus
Footballguy
Yes, because the really important takeaway is whether she worked there or was just visiting the facility.
modogg
Footballguy
ok, read the exact article and let me know what you conclude from that. i'm guessing no one did a DNA test on the dog/s that attacked. was there just one dog or multiple? was there no staff, or other staff in the facility?
honestly, that article belongs more in a thread about crappy new reporting then it does about dogs. you can honestly tell me you read that article and have no questions about what exactly occurred?
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I really do love this post. It illustrates things beautifully.
1. You think it is fox news and didnt realize it is a local fox affiliate website running an AP wire story. You actually copied and pasted the bottom line where it says clear as day it is copyrighted and trademarked by AP, lol.
2. You created a conspiracy theory that it was a woman that broke in and was on drugs. She was an employee. There are like 50 different outlets carrying the story with updates. I posted the one from my local affiliate because it didnt have a video autoplaying like the first two I read. But yeah, we are the ones that are biased and so is the media, lol.
But by all means, keep being more "scientific" than the rest of us. Science is entertaining.
Ignoramus
Footballguy
Here you go
Evidently she worked there. And made the critical mistake of trying to feed the dog. Or maybe it was the Frenchie that killed her... still awaiting polygraph results from all the dogs.
modogg
Footballguy
(this is not lol at you like is often seen, rather lol at how hard it is to have a discussion about this). it is painfully obvious we are at an en passe, and i really didn't intend to be. it said Fox News 6 at the top. I said Fox News, have fun in the politics thread with that, but if you don't think that iarticle is missing key info i will disagree. Though i do appreciate you didn't link to articles with auto pop-ups. and ok, if other articles cite more information then maybe that is something. Look, i am not sure what your hang up, this very well could have been a pit bull attack on a volunteer at a pet boarding place that was totally unprovoked and there were no antecedents that would anticipate any kind of attack. I don't think i ever said that anywhere. If you linked to an article that gave more details and explained the situation, i'm positive my response would have been different. Maybe next time don't rush to post the latest pit bull attack on our society, and post to a link that has some concrete information and maybe detail of what may have actually occurred. I don't cruise the web daily looking for the latest pit bull attack, so i was unaware there was "50" outlets reporting.
Honestly, i don't know why you have chosen to champion this cause. Keep going, honestly my dog only has a few years left and maybe i won't care as much if i don't own a "pitbull" to fall into these vortex threads. But if your concern is maybe the well-being in society and not just this weird fascination with "pit bull" thread, check this link out:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/16/chart-the-animals-that-are-most-likely-to-kill-you-this-summer/?utm_term=.b84aeac80e84
over twice as many people die each year to bees and hornets, maybe focus on that? Cows kill 20 people per year, dogs kill 28, maybe look into that (i have literally zero idea if there are different breeds of cows, but maybe you can find something there to champion).
i will say these stats seems a little wanky in how much they can be trusted. but here are some other links, enjoy:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/17/health/animal-attacks-statistics/index.html
https://historylist.wordpress.com/2008/05/29/human-deaths-in-the-us-caused-by-animals/
I am glad to see that, while dogs are at somewhere around 28 depending the site, alligators are only at .3 deaths per year, and bears are at .5. I like to live a little dangerously though, maybe i will try the mountain lion since they only kill 1 person per year.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
holy ####### twisted in knots!
we are not at an impasse. we generally have a few people who love their own activity/hobby and refuse anything counter to their own passion. that's it, nothing more.
we are not at an impasse. we generally have a few people who love their own activity/hobby and refuse anything counter to their own passion. that's it, nothing more.
modogg
Footballguy
why is this such a touchey subject for the people who want to eradicate an entire breed of an animal?? Look, thanks for the link, the additional information helps to draw a conclusion. it does sound tragic, and shame it happened. Again though, i'm not entirely sure breed is the most important thing here. Was the dog a product of multiple in-breeding, which i believe there is information in here about the dangers that causes. Was the dog bought from a breeder where the information was known?
Seems crazy that any dog would attack someone to the point of inflicting such damage, and i think we can all agree this is not a good thing. Why did it occur, could it have been prevented, etc., i don't know. But that is why there are experts and they took the dog to an animal control center. However, to cut down on these things, i think the answer lies there with trying to figure out what is behind this and would cause these kinds of tragedies.
modogg
Footballguy
disagree a bit, and i think i am at my posting limit for the day in any pitbull related thread after this one. We have plenty of people in here who have presented information from veterinarians who work with all kinds of dog, and plenty of other examples.
I honestly can understand why the people who are in danger of having their dog taken from them and executed are emotionally invested in this, but for the life of me i can't figure out why the people who are so anti pit-bulls (and once again, there really isn't such a breed) seem fanatical about this to the point they are ready to binge and purge all pit-bulls and their owners. I do like to listen to thoughts from everybody, but no offense, i listen more to the people in my daily life more if they had concerns with my "pit bull". on the contrary, my dog has convinced them that if they see a pit bull, they don't automatically assume this dog is a killer and literally everybody we run into loves both my dogs (except one buddy, because my pit bull has too much energy for his liking, and in her only aggressive attack ever, she did jump up to greet him and nailed him perfectly in the balls with her paw).
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
just get/keep them away from the countless neighbors who are terrified of them. away from the populated housing.
are you capable of that?
make that a pillar of responsible ownership.
modogg
Footballguy
lol, populated housing. I live in a large city, and have neighbors all around. SO yes i am capable of that. Are you capable of having a mature, productive discussion how to actually address an issue of dog bites in our country? i honestly hope so
What i seem incapable of, is convincing fanatical people that 1 breed of dog is not the cause of all bad things with dogs, despite data and research that would seem to suggest otherwise. I love that the CDC had a big study, suggested 3 very rational, and cost-effective ways to cut down on dog bites, and it was glossed over by this anti-pit bull group. We can likely agree to those 3 things, maybe we focus on something productive (i know, useless in these threads) and actually try to help people from preventing dog bites.
It often seems much more "pit bulls are bad!!! people who own pitbulls are dregs of society!!!!", and not " damn shame that someone was attacked, how can we help?"
Last edited by a moderator:
Ignoramus
Footballguy
Fair enough. Maybe one day some pattern will emerge or something will provide us some insight. Until then, we'll just have to chalk another death up to random chance that it just randomly happened to another poor, misunderstood pit bull. What are the odds? Could have been any breed, right?
Last edited by a moderator:
modogg
Footballguy
actually, this is really incorrect. There are plenty of people who do research and study dog attacks and animal behavior. Now some of this was posted in the other thread and for whatever reason it was attacked galore, but there are plenty of experts and people who really do look into this stuff and do not think 1 breed is the cause of all of this. As i have mentioned a few times in this thread, i like my dog, and really don't care to fight this battle. but if you look at the last 70-80 years of dog attacks/dog bites, the common trend is not pit bulls. It is probably a page or 2 back, but i pointed out how "pit bulls" were the family dog in the 30s and 40s, and there was no increase of attacks at all. if you look at the actual numbers, ownershop of "pit bull" breeds has gone up exponentially over the years (yes vague on purpose cause i don't know exact numbers), but the rate of dog bites/attacks has not grown to support a link to a breed.
as i also pointed out above, CDC did a big study in 2006 (i think). had 3 main suggestions to prevent dog bites and dog attacks. didn't link to a breed, but were rational and cost effective. yet, people still want to kill off a breed, and not actually support something that can be supported through research to actually reduce dog bites. i forget the 3 because this thread sucks the like out of me, but i know one was education in schools. seems really easy to afford, and to put in place. wish we could take this passion and put it behind that.
ugh fine. here is the CDC results summed up. Seem reasonable, the passion in this argument can get fanatical, why can we not get behind these suggestions? I think the answer sadly, is people really don't care to address dog bites. they would rather just be "right" and get their way, or maybe they really don't want ot put any effort into addressing the actual issue. i don't know, and to be honest i don't feel strongly enough to advocate for these 3 either:
"In the midst of the mudslinging, we miss the critical opportunity to educate children on dog bite prevention, to advocate for effective dangerous dog ordinances that are breed neutral but give animal control officers the tools to do their jobs and keep communities safe, and to provide spay/neuter assistance and education to the public. The three main suggestions the Centers For Disease Control and others offer to reduce dog bites and create safer communities."
Ignoramus
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
You aren't the only owner.
Its obvious you do not give a #### about your fellow citizen.
steelerfan1
Footballguy
Found this article interesting. It's quite lengthy however.
I will also admit that since I am for strict dangerous dog ordinances and oppose Breed Specific Legislation, I may have my blinders on.
I'd like to see someone who may be on the fence and get their assessment. Maybe @Joe Bryant
Article
I will also admit that since I am for strict dangerous dog ordinances and oppose Breed Specific Legislation, I may have my blinders on.
I'd like to see someone who may be on the fence and get their assessment. Maybe @Joe Bryant
Article
modogg
Footballguy
sure, let me fluff your pillow and get your late night snack ready too
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00047723.htm
ETA: i have no idea if that is it. I google'd CDC study, pit bulls, 2006. that came up. but no, i'm not reading it for everyone.
Last edited by a moderator:
modogg
Footballguy
whew finally, I think this is the post that has me waking up knowing that ignorant fools will never learn. I do more for the citizens then you will ever do.
the worst part is i know i will get sucked back in, but honestly, are the anti-pit bull this lazy and ignorant that this is the response? yes my dog usually goes on killing sprees every Wednesday, but we will take a few weeks off for you. Next time i will go to a breeder and reinforce that practice, instead of rescuing a dog set to be euthanized because the shelters are too packed.
I would love to know if people like you are like this in the rest of your life? Do you hate on everything you don't know about? Whatever, i have spent more time here then i ever should. Enjoy your cause here of trying to kill a bunch of dogs, good luck with your executions.
steelerfan1
Footballguy
DallasDMac
Footballguy
This report (or whatever it is) addressed bites. It seemed to be completely missing any data concerning the results on dog related killings. Not saying it is an intentional omission. But it seems odd to me given the subject matter. Almost as if there was an agenda behind it.
steelerfan1
Footballguy
Hi DDM,
A possible reason may be because a dog attack fatality is pretty rare, but I'm not sure.
The below includes hospitalisations which would in theory mean more severe incidents.
Colorado Article
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
First recommendation for preventing dog bites???sure, let me fluff your pillow and get your late night snack ready too
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00047723.htm
ETA: i have no idea if that is it. I google'd CDC study, pit bulls, 2006. that came up. but no, i'm not reading it for everyone.
I dont see the text you quoted in there anywhere.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
From the article...steelerfan1 said:
Also interesting that the link contains no data comparing pre ban and post ban stats. Just denver to other counties. Also mentions how it hasnt prevented fatalities since one person did die in denver after the ban. It glosses over what breeds killed the other 6. At least 3 were killed by pits. Having a hard time finding the other data.
steelerfan1
Footballguy
I'd be interested in seeing the pre and post as well para to see if they had any significant changes.
I'd say that since they still have quite a high % rate of apparent severe bites that it probably hasn't had the impact they desired.
I haven't come across too many pre/post studies myself.
Did see an older one from Canada that didn't show much of a difference, but it didn't address severity I don't think.
Toronto.
Also saw a couple outdated one's that didn't show any significant changes, but again they are older.
