Pope Francis 12.17.36 - 4.21.25 (1 Viewer)

[tonydead]

Don't be a fool.  I'm not saying that lay people watch priests molest little children and look the other way.  I'm saying that they allow a culture where cover-ups can happen to exist and look the other way, and that needs to change.

Wat?  They either know or they don't. And the grand jury report showed that they knew, all the way to the Vatican. 

People like you might not have known for sure, maybe you just suspected, but the numbers now show it's more likely than not and people like you no longer have an excuse. 

 

[mr roboto]

The very structure and theology of the church is a big part of the problem. 

 

[rockaction]

I think many American Catholics have left the church as a result of the current cycle of scandals.  There hasn't been as much social media uproar because the church isn't a democracy and people tend to be more circumspect about their religious beliefs than their political ones.

The public has a more active role in our political system but individual Catholics are powerless to do anything other than voting with their feet or checkbook  But both of these options only weaken the church at the local level without impacting the entrenched power structure that allowed this to happen.  If I don't donate to the parish, the roof will leak but the coverup will continue.

This is really an astute comment, and, in my experience, more in tune with reality than either those that loathe the Church or those that can be seen as slight apologists, seeking reform. 

Both my Aunt and Mother gave yearly significant charitable donations to the Church but stopped doing so after the scandals. No more. 

And, with respect to the first bolded sentence in the quote box, they did leave the Church. 

Crazy.

 

[Eephus]

The Pope is a head of state as well as a religious leader.  Get real -- ain't nobody gonna throw him in jail.

That's a big problem.

A number of popes throughout history spent time in jail but I think the most recent was Pius VII who was imprisoned by Napoleon.

 

[Eephus]

This is a really an astute comment, and, in my experience, more in tune with reality than either those that loathe the Church or those that can be seen as slight apologists, seeking reform. 

Both my Aunt and Mother gave yearly significant charitable donations to the Church but stopped doing so after the scandals. No more. 

And, with respect to the first bolded sentence in the quote box, they did leave the Church. 

Crazy.

You can leave the church but the church never leaves you

 

[rockaction]

You can leave the church but the church never leaves you

Indeed. There's a whole lot of guilt from being born in original sin floating around -- very effective for the maternal ones.  

 

[tonydead]

Bravo!

 

[Psychopav]

Wat?  They either know or they don't. And the grand jury report showed that they knew, all the way to the Vatican. 

People like you might not have known for sure, maybe you just suspected, but the numbers now show it's more likely than not and people like you no longer have an excuse. 

Yes, the numbers say that I've known abusers, like most of us (Catholic or otherwise).  I can't speak for people like me, but personally I have never viewed anything even close to concerning nor have I heard rumors of anything in any parish I've been involved with or with any priest I've been involved with.  I have known several priests who have been accused of wrongdoing.  All three were removed from active ministry and at least one is no longer a priest.  All of the accusations happened long after I knew them and I have no firsthand knowledge of any inappropriate behavior, with a minor or otherwise.  I repeat I have never witnessed anything that made me uncomfortable or done anything that I could honestly consider, in hindsight, to be sticking my head in the sand.  I suspect that there are millions like me, and that you are casting judgment in ignorance.

One of them is the priest who married my wife and me, and who was involved in a high school retreat program that I attended and worked for several years around my senior year in high school.

One of them is 81 years old and denies any wrongdoing to this day.  I believe him.  That said, a good friend of mine (who also believes him) also knows the accuser, and firmly believes that the accuser sincerely believes that something inappropriate happened.  Make of that what you will.

The third was an associate pastor at my church when I was a young teenager.  From what I've seen online, it sounds like he was reassigned to my parish after having been accused of molesting an altar boy, and he was later accused of molesting an 11 year old while at my parish.  I was on the parish council as a teen representative at the time.  This was around 1984 I think.  I had heard that he had left the priesthood but it looks like he was reassigned several times before that happened.  The bishop involved has since passed away.

 

[Psychopav]

It won't change as long as people think they'll piss god off if they don't write their tithe check. 

You're not a Catholic, are you?

We really don't talk about tithing, and most Catholics I know would be just fine making charitable donations to other worthy causes and considering that to be equally worthy almsgiving as giving in the collection plate on Sunday.  I believe collections decreased substantially after the first wave of scandals, and I expect them to dip again now.

The tricky part here is that the Catholic Church is not the priests, and it's not the hierarchy.  The Church is all of us, the body of Christ.  So fixing this issue is not a simple matter of walking away.

 

[Galileo]

You're not a Catholic, are you?

We really don't talk about tithing, and most Catholics I know would be just fine making charitable donations to other worthy causes and considering that to be equally worthy almsgiving as giving in the collection plate on Sunday.  I believe collections decreased substantially after the first wave of scandals, and I expect them to dip again now.

The tricky part here is that the Catholic Church is not the priests, and it's not the hierarchy.  The Church is all of us, the body of Christ.  So fixing this issue is not a simple matter of walking away.

Well, then they should lock your ### up too...and anyone else you wish to include in "all of us".  I damn well know I am not part of "all of us".

 

[rockaction]

That's a little out of line and stupid. 

 

[Galileo]

Bravo!

This is what "all of us" needs to be doing.  If the strength of your church is in the people, then hold your leadership accountable.  If "all of us" does not call out the guilty and demand justice for those victimized, then "all of us" can go to fictitious hell.    

 

[rockaction]

I'd like to posit that that's symbolism and metaphor taken quite literally by Psychopav and not necessarily a representation of all Catholics' beliefs. 

 

[CletiusMaximus]

The tricky part here is that the Catholic Church is not the priests, and it's not the hierarchy.  The Church is all of us, the body of Christ.  So fixing this issue is not a simple matter of walking away.

This seems like a convenient way to look at it from the Church's perspective.  From the perspective of a non-believer, a citizen of a nation of laws, I believe crimes have been committed and there are specific legal consequences for those crimes, including those who aided/abetted the crimes.  The Catholic Archdioceses make great use of our laws when they are defending these abuse lawsuits, including the statute of limitations defenses, the delays inherent in our legal system, aggressive shameful discovery and, when all is lost, the bankruptcy laws.  Their approach in defending these cases is simply deplorable.  I was personally involved in two of these bankruptcies and saw how the Arch claimed most of its assets were hidden behind multiple layers of mystery, owned by the individual parishes (not subject to the claims) and other legal trickery, while the debts could all be marshaled and centralized at the Arch level to be addressed in a payment plan. To make full use of these laws in avoiding its obligations, while at the same time claiming the "Church" is some nebulous concept which our laws can't fix, seems hypocritical. 

 

[Politician Spock]

You're not a Catholic, are you?

Nope. I went to a catholic high school for four years though.

My parents had to pay significantly more for tuition than other students had to pay, because our family wasn't giving to the catholic church.

Call it something other than tithing if you want, but it's still the catholic people financially supporting the catholic church regardless of what you call it. 

 

[tonydead]

Yes, the numbers say that I've known abusers, like most of us (Catholic or otherwise).  I can't speak for people like me, but personally I have never viewed anything even close to concerning nor have I heard rumors of anything in any parish I've been involved with or with any priest I've been involved with.  I have known several priests who have been accused of wrongdoing.  All three were removed from active ministry and at least one is no longer a priest.  All of the accusations happened long after I knew them and I have no firsthand knowledge of any inappropriate behavior, with a minor or otherwise.  I repeat I have never witnessed anything that made me uncomfortable or done anything that I could honestly consider, in hindsight, to be sticking my head in the sand.  I suspect that there are millions like me, and that you are casting judgment in ignorance.

One of them is the priest who married my wife and me, and who was involved in a high school retreat program that I attended and worked for several years around my senior year in high school.

One of them is 81 years old and denies any wrongdoing to this day.  I believe him.  That said, a good friend of mine (who also believes him) also knows the accuser, and firmly believes that the accuser sincerely believes that something inappropriate happened.  Make of that what you will.

The third was an associate pastor at my church when I was a young teenager.  From what I've seen online, it sounds like he was reassigned to my parish after having been accused of molesting an altar boy, and he was later accused of molesting an 11 year old while at my parish.  I was on the parish council as a teen representative at the time.  This was around 1984 I think.  I had heard that he had left the priesthood but it looks like he was reassigned several times before that happened.  The bishop involved has since passed away.

You've never witnessed anything yet one and a half of the three priests you listed are guilty.  Head in the sand indeed, millions of you, doing nothing. 

 

[prosopis]

Sad times for sure. I have questioned my faith in the past but this is a whole new level. 

 

[tonydead]

If you believe, how does God let this happen? 

Yeah, I know we're all sinners and the whole story hinges on free will.  But, if you can just look at it from a logical point of view for a few seconds.  Statistically, if there were a god, those with privileged contact with him should be much less likely to disobey him.  I  mean as compared to some none believing group of heathens.  Priests who have sworn their allegiance to, perform rituals and rites, give blessings, study and teach.  A math professor for example is statistically less likely to make math errors than someone who didn't even attend college or major in mathematics.  Yet by all reports this is the biggest and worst pedophile ring in history. 

 

[Psychopav]

I'd like to posit that that's symbolism and metaphor taken quite literally by Psychopav and not necessarily a representation of all Catholics' beliefs. 

That's an interesting perspective.  Are you a Catholic?

 

[Psychopav]

You've never witnessed anything yet one and a half of the three priests you listed are guilty.  Head in the sand indeed, millions of you, doing nothing. 

Really?  That's why child predators are constantly thwarted.  Because of their hunched backs and drool, right?

 

[Politician Spock]

Really?  That's why child predators are constantly thwarted.  Because of their hunched backs and drool, right?

Maybe if that collar wouldn't choke them they wouldn't hunch and drool so much. 

 

[tonydead]

Really?  That's why child predators are constantly thwarted.  Because of their hunched backs and drool, right?

The grand jury report coming out in 2018 documenting thousands of victims (in a single state) over a span of 70 years is your definition of constantly thwarted?

No idea what your hunchback comment means, other than possibly your disdain for people different than you.

Please wake up and stop defending this horrible religion.  

 

[HellToupee]

Please wake up and stop defending this horrible religion.  

This is where the wheels fall off the wagon. 

 

[Psychopav]

The grand jury report coming out in 2018 documenting thousands of victims (in a single state) over a span of 70 years is your definition of constantly thwarted?

No idea what your hunchback comment means, other than possibly your disdain for people different than you.

Please wake up and stop defending this horrible religion.  

I was speaking of the non-Catholic clergy pedophiles.  It was sarcasm in response to your implication that anyone who knows pedophiles is responsible for recognizing that they are predators.

The religion is not horrible.  The pedophiles are horrible.

 

[Galileo]

The religion is not horrible.  The pedophiles are horrible.

But when the leadership of the organized institution responsible for the religion basically flips the bird at the teachings of their religion that  doesn't bode well.

 

[Psychopav]

But when the leadership of the organized institution responsible for the religion basically flips the bird at the teachings of their religion that bode well.

I think you're saying that the the leadership not adhering to the religion that they espouse reflects poorly on the faith.  I can understand that perspective, and agree that it reflects poorly on the leadership.  They are supposed to serve the faith, not the other way around.

 

[rockaction]

That's an interesting perspective.  Are you a Catholic?

I'm agnostic. We've had a few brief interludes about it. I, often thanking you for the rosary and the prayers around Christmas. 

But the laity doesn't see the Church as a physical manifestation of Christ's body. They don't see it as corporeal. You may be more accurate in your description of what it should be, according to the claims the Church makes and the doctrine it sets, but I say that the laity ultimately drives even the most top-down of organizations. I think it's safe to say in this case that the laity - at least the overwhelming majority of the American laity -- feels the way I feel about, and that's that it is a spiritual facsimile of Christ's body and intentions, not a physical manifestation of them.  

 

[dickey moe]

Sad times for sure. I have questioned my faith in the past but this is a whole new level. 

Questioned your faith in God or the men entrusted to spread His message?

 

[Psychopav]

I'm agnostic. We've had a few brief interludes about it. I, often thanking you for the rosary and the prayers around Christmas. 

But the laity doesn't see the Church as a physical manifestation of Christ's body. They don't see it as corporeal. You may be more accurate in your description of what it should be, according to the claims the Church makes and the doctrine it sets, but I say that the laity ultimately drives even the most top-down of organizations. I think it's safe to say in this case that the laity - at least the overwhelming majority of the American laity -- feels the way I feel about, and that's that it is a spiritual facsimile of Christ's body and intentions, not a physical manifestation of them.  

I do recall those interactions, and through these and elsewhere, I always appreciate your perspective and demeanor.  I wasn't sure whether you were raised Catholic, which is what I meant to ask.  But it sounds like maybe you misunderstand me - so let me state unequivocally what I am NOT saying.

I didn't mean to imply that the laity is mystically equal to the corporeal body of Christ (in, for example, the same way that the Catholic Church views the Eucharist).  Catholics are not a sort of "chosen people", placing the Catholic faithful en masse on a higher spiritual footing than Christians generally.  I don't think that most Catholics believe that.  I certainly don't.  Catholics who leave the Church but not the faith, and convert to other Christian traditions, are not condemned to eternal hellfire, and there is not special place in Heaven for Catholics that others can't ever reach.  Every person will be judged as an individual, not by what group they belong to, and the judgment will be based on their individual and personal relationship with God (put another way, the state of their soul upon death).

I also don't believe that the laity can't influence the hierarchy.  It certainly can, and should.  In some ways, that's precisely what Vatican II was all about.

What I was trying to say, and obviously didn't do a very good job of it, is that for a true believer, boycotting the Church isn't a realistic option.  I'm not Catholic because I was born Catholic or because it's the tradition I'm most comfortable with.  I'm Catholic because I believe it to be the truth, that the sacramental life is the most effective way to get to know God and for Him to mold me into the person he wants me to be, and as Peter said, to whom would I go?  I believe in the Real Presence (the Eucharist) and in real grace that can be found uniquely in the Catholic Church. That's why I'm Catholic, and those things don't change even though priests and bishops sin.

If I were protestant, my outlook on this would be different.  There are many denominations that are all different expressions of the faith.  But none of them claim sacramental truth in the way that the apostolic churches do.  Therefore even for protestants I think that this is probably not an easy concept to understand.  A boycott is simply not an option.  Withholding funds certainly is, but to leave the Church is not.  Even if certain members of the hierarchy are corrupt (it's not the first time).  Even if the hierarchy itself is rotting from the inside out (wouldn't be the first time).  I firmly believe that the Spirit holds the Church together, not the other way around.

Hopefully that makes some sense.

 

[rockaction]

I do recall those interactions, and through these and elsewhere, I always appreciate your perspective and demeanor.  I wasn't sure whether you were raised Catholic, which is what I meant to ask.  But it sounds like maybe you misunderstand me - so let me state unequivocally what I am NOT saying.

I didn't mean to imply that the laity is mystically equal to the corporeal body of Christ (in, for example, the same way that the Catholic Church views the Eucharist).  Catholics are not a sort of "chosen people", placing the Catholic faithful en masse on a higher spiritual footing than Christians generally.  I don't think that most Catholics believe that.  I certainly don't.  Catholics who leave the Church but not the faith, and convert to other Christian traditions, are not condemned to eternal hellfire, and there is not special place in Heaven for Catholics that others can't ever reach.  Every person will be judged as an individual, not by what group they belong to, and the judgment will be based on their individual and personal relationship with God (put another way, the state of their soul upon death).

I also don't believe that the laity can't influence the hierarchy.  It certainly can, and should.  In some ways, that's precisely what Vatican II was all about.

What I was trying to say, and obviously didn't do a very good job of it, is that for a true believer, boycotting the Church isn't a realistic option.  I'm not Catholic because I was born Catholic or because it's the tradition I'm most comfortable with.  I'm Catholic because I believe it to be the truth, that the sacramental life is the most effective way to get to know God and for Him to mold me into the person he wants me to be, and as Peter said, to whom would I go?  I believe in the Real Presence (the Eucharist) and in real grace that can be found uniquely in the Catholic Church. That's why I'm Catholic, and those things don't change even though priests and bishops sin.

If I were protestant, my outlook on this would be different.  There are many denominations that are all different expressions of the faith.  But none of them claim sacramental truth in the way that the apostolic churches do.  Therefore even for protestants I think that this is probably not an easy concept to understand.  A boycott is simply not an option.  Withholding funds certainly is, but to leave the Church is not.  Even if certain members of the hierarchy are corrupt (it's not the first time).  Even if the hierarchy itself is rotting from the inside out (wouldn't be the first time).  I firmly believe that the Spirit holds the Church together, not the other way around.

Hopefully that makes some sense.

I read that rather quickly, but more so because it makes perfect sense than is drivel. One does not simply choose to leave the Church if the Church has revealed itself as truth. One just doesn't. 

I did misunderstand your first post a bit. I thought that you were giving mystical power to the Church and its adherents, really, and I see that that's what you are not doing. 

On a personal note, I was indeed raised Catholic and have an affection for the Church's claims that run deeply. But I have never been able to reconcile these claims with the hierarchical nature and structure of the Church. I understand exactly what you are saying about Protestantism and this hierarchical structure and the apostolic nature of the Church and the importance of the sacraments. (I was blown away by a young woman whose Church had decided to no longer offer confession out of fear that it intimidated the laity -- confession is a sacramental gift; what message are we teaching when we do that? But I digress...)

We had, earlier in the thread, a man from Minnesota deride the nature of the hierarchy of the Church and decry that as its problem. I would have engaged, but that is a five century-old issue with Minnesota, isn't it, though? 

So we pick our high roads and I do not get into denominational arguments, but I do realize that the nature of the hierarchy can lead to a problem. Catholicism, in its way, is very much temperamentally European as opposed to American. In America, we know our secular saints and leaders are deep sinners. In Europe, we mourn the deep faults of the great men and women after the fact. It's just how the cultures have started and evolved. 

The hierarchy and unaccountability of the Catholic Church to juries on this earth very much upsets Americans. That's why some leave, some stop donating, etc., when these things happen. They see no justice, no light. And they have less of a European sense of fidelity than you. Perhaps this might be illuminating, perhaps not. You seem to have thought through this very deeply. But America's laity is a different laity than Europe, and I'll stick by that statement. Catholicism was always going to be different in America, much like its Protestantism is.  

 

[HellToupee]

The way Pope Benedict went out was very odd. This story might provide a huge reason. Was he forced out?

http://www.thejournal.ie/pope-benedict-abuse-1270319-Jan2014/

Former Pope Benedict defrocked nearly 400 priests in two years for child abuse

Statistics for 2011-12 show a dramatic increase over the 171 priests removed in 2008 and 2009.

POPE BENEDICT XVI defrocked nearly 400 priests over just two years for molesting children according to new documents.

The statistics for 2011-12 show a dramatic increase over the 171 priests removed in 2008 and 2009, when the Vatican first provided details on the number of priests who have been defrocked. Prior to that, it had only publicly revealed the number of alleged cases of sexual abuse it had received.

The document was prepared from data the Vatican had been collecting to help the Holy See defend itself before a UN committee this week in Geneva.

Archbishop Silvano Tomasi, the Vatican’s UN ambassador in Geneva, referred to just one of the statistics in the course of eight hours of oftentimes pointed criticism and questioning from the UN human rights committee.

The statistics were compiled from the Vatican’s own annual reports about the activities of its various offices, including the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which handles sex abuse cases. Although public, the annual reports are not readily available or sold outside Rome and are usually found in Vatican offices or Catholic university libraries.

An AP review of the reference books shows a remarkable evolution in the Holy See’s in-house procedures to discipline pedophiles since 2001, when the Vatican ordered bishops to send cases of all credibly accused priests to Rome for review.

Then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger took action after determining that bishops around the world weren’t following church law to put accused clerics on trial in church tribunals. Bishops routinely moved problem priests from parish to parish rather than subject them to canonical trials or turn them into police.

A copy of an internal Vatican document used by Archbishop Silvano Tomasi, the Vatican’s U.N. ambassador in Geneva. (Pic: AP)

For centuries, the church has had its own in-house procedures to deal with priests who sexually abuse children. One of the chief accusations from victims is that bishops put the church’s own procedures ahead of civil law enforcement by often suggesting victims not go to police and keep accusations quiet while they are dealt with internally.

The maximum penalty for a priest convicted by a church tribunal is essentially losing his job, being defrocked, or removed from the clerical state. There are no jail terms and nothing to prevent an offender from offending again.

According to the 2001 norms Ratzinger pushed through, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith reviews each case sent to Rome and then instructs bishops how to proceed, either by launching an administrative process against the priest if the evidence is overwhelming or a church trial. At every step of the way the priest is allowed to defend himself.

The Congregation started reporting numbers only in 2005, which is where Tomasi’s spreadsheet starts off. U.N. officials said Friday that the committee has not received the document.

 

[Psychopav]

The way Pope Benedict went out was very odd. This story might provide a huge reason. Was he forced out?

http://www.thejournal.ie/pope-benedict-abuse-1270319-Jan2014/

Former Pope Benedict defrocked nearly 400 priests in two years for child abuse

Statistics for 2011-12 show a dramatic increase over the 171 priests removed in 2008 and 2009.

POPE BENEDICT XVI defrocked nearly 400 priests over just two years for molesting children according to new documents.

The statistics for 2011-12 show a dramatic increase over the 171 priests removed in 2008 and 2009, when the Vatican first provided details on the number of priests who have been defrocked. Prior to that, it had only publicly revealed the number of alleged cases of sexual abuse it had received.

The document was prepared from data the Vatican had been collecting to help the Holy See defend itself before a UN committee this week in Geneva.

Archbishop Silvano Tomasi, the Vatican’s UN ambassador in Geneva, referred to just one of the statistics in the course of eight hours of oftentimes pointed criticism and questioning from the UN human rights committee.

The statistics were compiled from the Vatican’s own annual reports about the activities of its various offices, including the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which handles sex abuse cases. Although public, the annual reports are not readily available or sold outside Rome and are usually found in Vatican offices or Catholic university libraries.

An AP review of the reference books shows a remarkable evolution in the Holy See’s in-house procedures to discipline pedophiles since 2001, when the Vatican ordered bishops to send cases of all credibly accused priests to Rome for review.

Then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger took action after determining that bishops around the world weren’t following church law to put accused clerics on trial in church tribunals. Bishops routinely moved problem priests from parish to parish rather than subject them to canonical trials or turn them into police.

A copy of an internal Vatican document used by Archbishop Silvano Tomasi, the Vatican’s U.N. ambassador in Geneva. (Pic: AP)

For centuries, the church has had its own in-house procedures to deal with priests who sexually abuse children. One of the chief accusations from victims is that bishops put the church’s own procedures ahead of civil law enforcement by often suggesting victims not go to police and keep accusations quiet while they are dealt with internally.

The maximum penalty for a priest convicted by a church tribunal is essentially losing his job, being defrocked, or removed from the clerical state. There are no jail terms and nothing to prevent an offender from offending again.

According to the 2001 norms Ratzinger pushed through, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith reviews each case sent to Rome and then instructs bishops how to proceed, either by launching an administrative process against the priest if the evidence is overwhelming or a church trial. At every step of the way the priest is allowed to defend himself.

The Congregation started reporting numbers only in 2005, which is where Tomasi’s spreadsheet starts off. U.N. officials said Friday that the committee has not received the document.

Very interesting.

It seems like turning the accused over to the authorities has been the process since the scandals first broke a decade ago.  Just this weekend our bishop published the following in every bulletin in the diocese, and it affirms what is on the diocesan website - if you learn of abuse, your duty is first to report it to civil authorities.  I have heard that message consistently over the past 10 years.

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

Last weekend I stood before parishioners at St. Cecilia Catholic Church and informed them of allegations of sexual abuse by their former pastor, Reverend Edmundo Paredes.

Father Paredes was first suspended and removed from ministry in June 2017 after financial irregularities were discovered. In February 2018, three adult men made credible accusations of criminal sexual acts by Father Paredes that occurred when they were in their mid-teens. The Diocese immediately notified law enforcement but, respected the victim’s request to not publicly announce the allegations. It was never a question of if we would eventually make the allegations public, only when.

I want you to know that I am working with diocesan staff to find additional strategies to the ones already in place to create a safer environment. It is my pledge to make sure that all children are safe. The diocese will take these further actions:

1) There will be a Ceremony of Sorrow at St. Cecilia Catholic church in the near future.

2) There will be four town hall meetings in the coming months for parishioners in the diocese. These meetings will include liturgy and a listening session.

3) Plans are being made to expand the Safe Environment protocol. The diocese will survey parents, grandparents, and parishioners as to the effectiveness of the current Safe Environment program within their parish.

4) A researcher has been commissioned to explore what we can learn from the Pennsylvania grand jury report and identify how we in the Diocese of Dallas can do better.

5) Knowing that we must combat this evil with prayer, I have asked all priests, ministers and parishes of the diocese to pray the rosary before every Mass throughout the month of October, the month of the rosary, whenever possible, for the healing of all victims and the sanctification of priests.

As I have said, the Diocese of Dallas must do everything to ensure the safety of our people. I encourage anyone who has experienced sexual abuse by clergy, or those who suspect someone is being abused, to report it to law enforcement. In Dallas, these cases are investigated by the Dallas Police Department, who can be reached by calling the DPD Child Exploitation Unit [214-671-4215]. In other cities, please contact local law enforcement. In addition, anyone who suspects that a child is being abused should report it to the Texas Abuse Hotline [1-800-252-5400].

As we continue to work for the protection of children and youth, I need you to know that in the Diocese of Dallas, we are committed to doing what is right and just. I assure you of my prayers as we hold onto the hope and reassurance that sin and evil will not have the last word.

I ask you to please join me in praying for all victims of sexual abuse and their loved ones, and for the St. Cecilia community.

Sincerely yours in Christ,

Most Reverend Edward J. Burns
Bishop of Dallas

 

[Eephus]

The Vatican is in full spin mode trying to convince the UN and other civil authorities that they have their house in order.   400 priests is less than 0.1% of the more than 400,000 Catholic priests in the world.

I don't think Benedict's record of addressing the sexual abuse scandal is anything noteworthy.  There were reports about Cardinal McCarrick before Benedict's papacy yet he wasn't officially sanctioned by the church.  Nor is there anything in the article that hints that Benedict's resignation was related to the scandal.

 

[Galileo]

This is an awful, awful story.  The article is dated 9-29-18, but I am not typically a Daily Beast reader, so I did not catch it until this morning when I saw it shared on FB.  I doubt many will be surprised by what is reported, but once again, connections leading to Pope Francis (before he was pope) turning a blind eye to the situation.  

The Sex Abuse of Deaf Orphans in Pope Francis’ Backyard

 

[tonydead]

So dude is God's right hand man, talks to him all the time, and it turns out he's covering up the largest pedophile ring in history and people still believe in this crap? 

 

[Cjw_55106]

So dude is God's right hand man, talks to him all the time, and it turns out he's covering up the largest pedophile ring in history and people still believe in this carp? 

I’m quite sure God never dreemed him his right-hand man.

 

[tonydead]

I’m quite sure God never dreemed him his right-hand man.

Exactly my point. 

 

[Shoot_Me_Now]

So dude is God's right hand man, talks to him all the time, and it turns out he's covering up the largest pedophile ring in history and people still believe in this crap? 

Yes we continue to elect and support political leaders who push the god narrative. Shocking we haven't moved past this yet. Mind bottling it hasn't filtered down into our education system. 

 

[joffer]

Yes we continue to elect and support political leaders who push the god narrative. Shocking we haven't moved past this yet. Mind bottling it hasn't filtered down into our education system. 

that rubbing salt in the womb

 

[Politician Spock]

Ummm.... yeah..... maybe forcing "spiritual" people to stay single wasn't such a good idea after all. 

 

[tonydead]

309 priests identified in Texas. 

Catholic dioceses across Texas Thursday released lists of priests they determined were "credibly accused" of abusing a child. 

Why?  They got busted:

All of this comes after Texas law enforcement raided the archdiocese of Galveston-Houston in November and is now poring over more than 30,000 of the church's internal, private documents. 

The priest that abused the guy shown in the article was still doing his thing some 40+ years later. Until the authorities finally stepped in. 

 

[Galileo]

The Jesuits recently (Dec./Jan.) released lists of priests who have been credibly accused.  The combined lists from the 5 regions around the country totaled nearly 300 names.  Two of the names on the Midwest Region list were from my high school.  One of them was from before my time at the school.  The other was my Latin teacher.   I knew of nothing back at the time, but he quietly left the school after my senior year and went to a local Jesuit College.  It was a couple years later that I heard some rumblings about him, but nothing I was privy to was ever official or ever substantiated.  It is good to see that this sleazeball was eventually dismissed from the priesthood, but much too late and after way too many instances at several places where he had been reassigned.  And now I am curious as to who he victimized.  

 

[Jayrod]

Ummm.... yeah..... maybe forcing "spiritual" people to stay single wasn't such a good idea after all. 

There is a reason Paul said do not forbid people to marry.

The extra-Biblical stances of the Catholic Church are at the core of this problem.  They lost their way theologically centuries ago.  Luther tried to get them to fix it and they refused to relent.  Power hungry and greedy, they are the Sudducees/Pharisees of today and the very false prophets Paul warned us about.

More damage is done to humanity by one false teacher than 10,000 atheists.

 

[jhib]

There is a reason Paul said do not forbid people to marry.

The extra-Biblical stances of the Catholic Church are at the core of this problem.  They lost their way theologically centuries ago.  Luther tried to get them to fix it and they refused to relent.  Power hungry and greedy, they are the Sudducees/Pharisees of today and the very false prophets Paul warned us about.

More damage is done to humanity by one false teacher than 10,000 atheists.

Not excusing or minimizing the issue with the Catholic Church even for a second, but to think that this is solely a Catholic problem is pretty naive, IMHO. 

 

[Godsbrother]

There is a reason Paul said do not forbid people to marry.

The extra-Biblical stances of the Catholic Church are at the core of this problem.  They lost their way theologically centuries ago.  Luther tried to get them to fix it and they refused to relent.  Power hungry and greedy, they are the Sudducees/Pharisees of today and the very false prophets Paul warned us about.

More damage is done to humanity by one false teacher than 10,000 atheists.

They may be greedy and power hungry and that is a problem but there is not anything in the teachings of the Catholic church,  extra-biblical or not, that condones child abuse.    There are child molestation done by ministers of all religions but the leaders of the Catholic church not only turned a blind eye to it but shielded these priests and moved them around to other parishes where they continued their abuse.  Those that allowed this are evil.

If I were the Pope I would have immediately excommunicated any cardinal or bishop that knew about any allegations in their diocese and did not report them to the police.    The fact that this still hasn't happened in many cases is outrageous.

That said, there are some clergy that are wonderful, pious people and I don't consider them to be false prophets.

 

[Galileo]

They may be greedy and power hungry and that is a problem but there is not anything in the teachings of the Catholic church,  extra-biblical or not, that condones child abuse.    There are child molestation done by ministers of all religions but the leaders of the Catholic church not only turned a blind eye to it but shielded these priests and moved them around to other parishes where they continued their abuse.  Those that allowed this are evil.

If I were the Pope I would have immediately excommunicated any cardinal or bishop that knew about any allegations in their diocese and did not report them to the police.    The fact that this still hasn't happened in many cases is outrageous.

That said, there are some clergy that are wonderful, pious people and I don't consider them to be false prophets.

This may be the worst part of all.  The hypocrisy of the entire organization/institution is unfathomable.  As far as the Pope taking action?  He was complicit in this behavior.  He, personally, has turned a blind eye to situations he has known about.  From top to bottom, the institution that is the Catholic Church disgusts me.  

To jhib's point, this definitely is not unique to the Catholic church.  For that matter, it is not unique to religion.  Just look at the mess that is Michigan State University for evidence of that.

 

[Godsbrother]

This may be the worst part of all.  The hypocrisy of the entire organization/institution is unfathomable.  As far as the Pope taking action?  He was complicit in this behavior.  He, personally, has turned a blind eye to situations he has known about.  From top to bottom, the institution that is the Catholic Church disgusts me.  

To jhib's point, this definitely is not unique to the Catholic church.  For that matter, it is not unique to religion.  Just look at the mess that is Michigan State University for evidence of that.

Agree 100%.    I grew up Catholic and actually served as an altar boy to a priest that was named in the Pittsburgh Catholic Church scandal.   The ironic thing was that I really liked this particular priest.  He was young, athletic, and a lot of fun to be around and now it turns out he was fooling around with 13 and 14 year old girls.  

I had a major falling out with religion in general about 20 years ago unrelated to the scandal and now view myself as an agnostic.   The only time I set foot in any church is for a wedding or funeral.

 

[Scoresman]

Time to shut it down.  Someone needs to come out and basically say sorry folks, but Christianity is coming to an end. Thanks for your support over the years.  God is still up there looking over everyone and if you want to start a new religion feel free, but we're done here.  

 

[Galileo]

Agree 100%.    I grew up Catholic and actually served as an altar boy to a priest that was named in the Pittsburgh Catholic Church scandal.   The ironic thing was that I really liked this particular priest.  He was young, athletic, and a lot of fun to be around and now it turns out he was fooling around with 13 and 14 year old girls.  

I had a major falling out with religion in general about 20 years ago unrelated to the scandal and now view myself as an agnostic.   The only time I set foot in any church is for a wedding or funeral.

Username fail.

I liked my Latin teacher.  He was a bit odd and quirky, but it was in an entertaining sort of way.  I was in an all boys high school though.  So this dude was messing with teenage boys.  I was an alter boy as well, but have never heard anything negative about the priests I have worked with in that capacity.  Of course, they are deceased now.  They weren't Jesuit though so they wouldn't have been part of the recent Jesuit lists.  In my eyes they were always pretty good people, so I really hope their names don't turn up on an Ohio list when it eventually materializes.   

 

[Godsbrother]

Username fail.

   I won't hijack the thread but the funny thing about my user name is it doesn't have anything to do with God in heaven.