He is taking away from a moment that is meant to honor America and those who fought for it. It is akin to screaming during a moment of silence.
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Pure Squistion Entertainment (formerly the Colin Kaepernick thread) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter fantasycurse42
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Dondante
Footballguy
Hahaha race-baiting? I bet you have that monogrammed on a pillow somewhere. I'm sorry that you're so offended by freedom, but that too is your right. Peace, brother. I hope you find a cure for your hate.
MattFancy
Footballguy
Apple Jack
Footballguy
No, it's not. It's like a guy quietly kneeling during the national anthem. Have you lost your mind?
He is showing his disagreement with the path the country is on during a redundant and contrived moment of hyper patriotism meant to increase the commercial viability of the NFL. Commerce is king in America but at it's core nothing is more American than standing up to the man and affecting change.
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parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Because, for the general populace, there are few and far things to me that are more patriotic that exercising your constitutional rights. Obviously serving your country, in some capacity, brings a level of patriotism that far exceeds that, but back to the general populace which Kaep is part of...
That US Constitution, which Kaep's utilizing the rights bestowed upon him by, is far more important than the flag that he's supposedly disrespecting. And using those constitutional rights, in an effort to make this country a better place, to me, is patriotism personified
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
I don't put stock in many polls, but if jon's going to use it as part of his 'I told you so' bs, I'm going to pick it apart.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Now the poll for this thread.... That's a poll you can put stock into!
Calling an intentional act against patriotism as unpatriotic is not hate, it is descriptive. Calling everyone who disagrees with you as ignorant and prejudice (an arguement which falls immediately on its face) is just stirring up hate. Blankety throwing out the race card is the epitome of race-baiting.
You have a bizarre definition of patriotism. By your definition an ISIS terrorist who just killed a thousand Americans would be a true patriot for exercising his Constitutional rights to take the 5th. When your definition fails that badly, perhaps it is time to rethink. Most Americans agree that it is Kaep's right, they just don't think it is the right time to be sending it. Why do you support Kaep's opinion, but get so damn spun up when most Americans express an opinion contrary to that.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
No... Really 
I know. Doesn't it show how ####### stupid your definition was. Glad you finally saw the light.No... Really
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
The guy(s) that kill 1,000 of people just left the old 'general populace' portion of society.
I'll respect his right to take the 5th, that's the slippery slope of this whole Constitution thing, but let's not be silly here because these hypothetical terrorists weren't taking these hypothetical actions to make America a better place.
I'll respect his right to take the 5th, that's the slippery slope of this whole Constitution thing, but let's not be silly here because these hypothetical terrorists weren't taking these hypothetical actions to make America a better place.
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It is not silly. It just points out that even people who hate this country and are the most unpatriotic people imagineable, have Constitutional rights. It is not the exercising of those rights which is patriotic (your definition), it is the recognition that those values expressed by the Constitution is what makes this country great.
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parasaurolophus
Footballguy
In all reality the guy could be doing it for some pooty tang or for one last "look at me". Nobody really knows his true motivations.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
Involuntary derpitude
Buzzbait
Footballguy
So the end justifies the means?
My take: I think his intentions are genuine. I respect what he believes in and what he's trying to do. I don't like the vehicle he's using to convey that message. I understand that is likely why this vehicle was chosen (i.e. it's polarizing and gets people talking) but he's pissing down the back of a lot of people in the process. Doing something that shows disrespect (intended or not) is not the way to get something done IMO.
mr. furley
Footballguy
where are we at on the following
1) the bed-ridden, infirm or those in wheelchairs. aren't they showing ultimate disrespect of America by being so weak that they can't even ####### stand to salute the country that made it possible for them to still be alive? in other countries they would be euthanized. should they not show respect by at least trying to stand????
these are the types that make me angriest. look, i get it, you got hit by a Mack truck on your way to work. it happens. that doesn't mean you get the right to sit during the national ####### anthem. this is America. you owe it to the troops that fought for your freedom to allow that American made truck to hit you. you damned well better salute the flag and thank them for dropping those cluster bombs on Laos so that our truck production didn't move there in the 70s.
2) how do we feel about foreign nationals standing for the anthem? all those Dominicans and Japs and other browns playing baseball that stand for the national anthem... i mean, seriously. have some self respect. it's not even your flag. as an American i sure as hell don't stand for the Canadian anthem.. or the Swedish anthem.. just like i don't dance with someone else's wife at a wedding. it's flat disrespectful to do. if i had the nerve to take the hand of someone else's girl i'd expect to get taken out back and beat up.
maybe that's what we need. round up all these clowns from other countries that are sucking on the American teat by taking good American baseball jobs.. take them out back and beat the tar out of them. then they'll learn not to be so weak as to salute another country's flag.
or they can just go back to their own country and poop outside like the rest of non-America.
1) the bed-ridden, infirm or those in wheelchairs. aren't they showing ultimate disrespect of America by being so weak that they can't even ####### stand to salute the country that made it possible for them to still be alive? in other countries they would be euthanized. should they not show respect by at least trying to stand????
these are the types that make me angriest. look, i get it, you got hit by a Mack truck on your way to work. it happens. that doesn't mean you get the right to sit during the national ####### anthem. this is America. you owe it to the troops that fought for your freedom to allow that American made truck to hit you. you damned well better salute the flag and thank them for dropping those cluster bombs on Laos so that our truck production didn't move there in the 70s.
2) how do we feel about foreign nationals standing for the anthem? all those Dominicans and Japs and other browns playing baseball that stand for the national anthem... i mean, seriously. have some self respect. it's not even your flag. as an American i sure as hell don't stand for the Canadian anthem.. or the Swedish anthem.. just like i don't dance with someone else's wife at a wedding. it's flat disrespectful to do. if i had the nerve to take the hand of someone else's girl i'd expect to get taken out back and beat up.
maybe that's what we need. round up all these clowns from other countries that are sucking on the American teat by taking good American baseball jobs.. take them out back and beat the tar out of them. then they'll learn not to be so weak as to salute another country's flag.
or they can just go back to their own country and poop outside like the rest of non-America.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Its been brought up before and it will be brought up again.
Rosa Parks was being 'disrespectful' to those that opposed where she plopped her ### down on public transportation
Oliver Brown was being 'disrespectful' to some people by sending his daughter to the public school in his neighborhood.
Jayrok
Footballguy
I know Dabo didn't offer his insights but all these coaches are getting asked this question about sharing their thoughts on the Kaepernick protest story. Offering personal points of view only opens a coach up to criticism, no matter what he says.
You agree with his right to protest and share his beliefs, you get hit by one group of people. You disagree with his right to protest, like Tony LaRussa or Jerry Jones, you get hit by another group of people. You try to stay neutral and say you agree with his right to protest but tend to disagree with his methods or choice of platform, you get hit by another group of people who call you a "white moderate." If you quote MLK or bring up the name MLK, and are white, you get hit by a mixture of the previous groups of people.
Coach, you can't win. Best to keep your personal thoughts out of the press conference and just say something like "I respect his constitutional right to protest"... and move on to the next question.
Buzzbait
Footballguy
You can bring it up as many times as you want but they aren't the same. The examples you cited above are people who were rallying around "thee" item causing the injustice.
Colored people can't ride on buses. Screw em, I'm riding on the bus.
Colored people can't go to the local public school? Screw em, I'm sending my child.
Colored people are treated fairly in this country? I'm not standing for the flag because it represents that injustice. Not the same as the two above. If you don't understand it then I can't help you.
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Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Love this analogy. I married into a Catholic family and, out of respect to my wife and inlaws, have attended far too many Catholic ceremonies, masses, etc (including our wedding).mr. furley said:
However, when attending these events, I purposely don't go through the stand, sit, kneel, taking communion rituals that comes with a Catholic mass out of that same respect. I'm not one of them, I'm not religious, and if I were, I most certainly wouldn't be Catholic. If I went through the motions, I know my inlaws wouldn't think twice about me doing it, but I also know that they respect my choice not to.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
OK, jon.
Given the chance to be in that place and time, and this platform, I have no doubt in my mind that you'd be here #####ing about her.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
"We have rules for a reason and who is she to see herself as special or above these rules? So disrespectful to the troops who died so that we could have those rules. Do you think I like riding the bus? No."
OK, jon.
Given the chance to be in that place and time, and this platform, I have no doubt in my mind that you'd be here #####ing about her.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Of course he has the right to do this. There is no law in place that you have to stand for the National Anthem, hence "'please' rise for the National Anthem and remove your hat."Limp Ditka said:
Hard to argue that it isn't his constitutional right and I don't think a single person here would disagree with that. Don't know what point you're trying to make.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
If you're trying to argue that at least 36% of America is stupid, we've come to an agreement.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
IDK about the same, but I do find them both disrespectful.
We're all Americans, stand there for 2 minutes like everyone else, breathe it in, relax, and appreciate it IMO.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
mr. furley
Footballguy
AND LOOK WHAT IT HAS DONE TO THIS COUNTRY!!Limp Ditka said:
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Jayrok
Footballguy
I see the kneeling as a peaceful protest and I believe Kaep, or anyone else, has the right to do that. I'm not as sure about the raised fist. That has the connotation of standing for black power, as opposed to simply being a symbol of solidarity.
I think that could be more offensive than kneeling. Would anyone be offended if, during the anthem, a white player stood there and raised a hand that had a confederate flag painted on it?
I think that could be more offensive than kneeling. Would anyone be offended if, during the anthem, a white player stood there and raised a hand that had a confederate flag painted on it?
mr. furley
Footballguy
watBuzzbait said:
mr. furley
Footballguy
why?
forced pride, forced salute, forced glorification is not American. we see reports from North Korea and think "how could those people possibly stand there and salute Kim Jong-Il?? are they blind???" but then demand the same from free Americans.
don't question the dear leader. do as you are told. do it the right way. do it at the right time and there won't be trouble.. you see?
mr. furley
Footballguy
well, they were insurrectionists and lost.. so... unless we're calling slavery a lost war and counting black americans as the enemy...
that does make me think, though. people have frequently said that the Confederate flag is a sign of dissent, of rebellion (it's called the ####### Rebel flag for chrissakes) that it's the "true American" way of giving the middle finger to government... it saw a resurgence in popularity in defiance of the new Islamic President Hussein Obama.
but...... white America is mostly okay with it
"it's their right to fly the flag on trucks, on shirts, in stadiums, etc." we say. but a quiet raised fist represents black power and that's disrespectful?
isn't saluting the Confederate flag... they did nearly destroy the United States... more disrespectful than people saying "maybe this whole freedom for everyone thing isn't exactly being evenly applied and i don't want to pay homage for these 2 minutes"?
there's no questioning that a guy flying two giant Confederate flags on his pickup loves America. but a guy who won't be forced to salute the American flag hates America.
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I can speculate that given the chance you would partake in gay sex. Not sure what that has to do with anything. I am not even sure what the arguement is at this point. I think all reasonable people can agree:
OK, jon.
Given the chance to be in that place and time, and this platform, I have no doubt in my mind that you'd be here #####ing about her.
1. He has the right
2. It is disrespectful, whether you can rationalize it or not because of his cause is opinion.
At this point, I am not sure what point it is you want to make. It seems like the 'national anthem sucks' crowd just want to carry on calling everyone a racist or stupid if you don't agree. Carry on with the tantrums, but it seems kind of a whacky fringe movement.
Buzzbait
Footballguy
Help me help you. Exactly what doesn't make sense?
You think Rosa riding the bus or Ruby Bridges going to William Frantz Elementary School is the same stance against injustice as Kaep kneeling during the SSB?
JZilla
Footballguy
Sure I called you racists last week too
In all your fury about how offended everybody - especially we veterans - must be about a tradition that's not in any way, shape or form meant to be a service memorial, can you go over your specific thoughts about his message again?
For example here's what I think.. you can't change people's viewpoints in a day or a week or a year, but a lot could be solved by prosecuting the "bad apples" as they are described by their own departments/representatives, who recklessly kill or otherwise assault unarmed citizens. Wouldn't that go a long way toward addressing these issues of perceived systematic injustice?
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Limp Ditka
Footballguy
For you, this is probably more fantasizing than speculating.
See the hot takes from johnsons comment you made earlier.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
This is an awful analogy, we aren't saluting one person. Doctor Detroit had a great quote last week about standing for something that is bigger than any one person, which I absolutely agree with.
I don't feel forced to stand, I do it out of respect and appreciation.
Stopped right here, no need to continue
JZilla
Footballguy
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