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Pure Squistion Entertainment (formerly the Colin Kaepernick thread) (2 Viewers)

Kaep Sitting for Anthem

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Dickies said:
Do you not consider police officers murdering black people to be an emergency?

It's hard to understand why you are more outraged over the protest than the cause.
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Sure that is an issue.  I consider the crime rates a bigger issue, and in many of the cases it is police responding to violence which leads to violence.  IMHO, police could become the most polite and non-violent unbiased people on the planet, and the inner cities would still be rampant with violence.  The focus needs to be to raise the poor inner city youth up so they can achieve and get out of the cycle of poverty and the influence of gangs.  Police brutality is a sympton and not the root cause.  

 
mr. furley said:
you're right black Americans have it better than, say, the Roma or maybe the untouchables in India. even better than Syrians right now.

great argument

if someone kicks you in the face with boots that have the American flag on them you absolutely should stand up and ask for another kick in the face. AND be grateful for it. better than getting kicked in the face by some guy wearing Canadian flag boots.
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If you or anyone else think there is a better place with more opportunity, bon voyage.

 
mr. furley said:
it was insane from the start. that's the kicker.

finally people who actually understand what's happening started posting and calling out the loons.
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Yes, anybody who disagrees with Kaep not standing for the anthem is a racist. 

That's the dumbest #### I've ever heard on this board. Not only is it ad hominem, it's egregiously wrong. I've written often about the problems with policing in America often on this very board -- you'd be surprised! -- and not only feel ambivalent towards Kaepernick's stance (or sit) but can also see how reasonable people disagree with it. It's not very hard. They're not loons. 

You make yourself look bad with your hortatory language and willingness to throw epithets out towards reasonable people who disagree with you. This thread went insane when you guys started dominating it and started name calling. 

That's the way I see it.  

 
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jon_mx said:
Sure that is an issue.  I consider the crime rates a bigger issue, and in many of the cases it is police responding to violence which leads to violence.  IMHO, police could become the most polite and non-violent unbiased people on the planet, and the inner cities would still be rampant with violence.  The focus needs to be to raise the poor inner city youth up so they can achieve and get out of the cycle of poverty and the influence of gangs.  Police brutality is a sympton and not the root cause.  
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In "many" of the cases it is police responding to violence.  Again you're saying it but that's not many times what we've seen.  If an MP kills an unarmed civilian in Kabul, he gets court martialled, doesn't really matter what the hell was going on, they'll figure that out in the trial.  Why should cops in inner cities get carte blanche?

Waiting until crime is solved and the people are somehow magically lifted up seems really unhelpful.  The justice system as a whole is a big part of what's wrong in inner cities.  See a problem, why not fix it? 

 
jon_mx said:
Sure that is an issue.  I consider the crime rates a bigger issue, and in many of the cases it is police responding to violence which leads to violence.  IMHO, police could become the most polite and non-violent unbiased people on the planet, and the inner cities would still be rampant with violence.  The focus needs to be to raise the poor inner city youth up so they can achieve and get out of the cycle of poverty and the influence of gangs.  Police brutality is a sympton and not the root cause.  
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I think you are being a bit naive.  I think police discrimination is one of the major reasons that inner city youth wind up in poor situations.  Lock up the disadvantaged poor black kid for some minor crime, throw them in jail, now they have a record and repeat the process.  There was a Frontline that talked about this that I suggest you watch.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
Perhaps you didn't read the posts I quoted, perhaps you're just not bright, IDK :shrug:

My comments were based on the quotes I read earlier (which I posted), yours was based on an opinion, an opinion that didn't read or struggled to understand some basic stuff above. 

The irony of the sarcasm in your statement probably escapes you, so I'll point that out too. 
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Maybe we need a new pole, "Does disagreeing with CK automatically make you a racist?" I feel like it would be fairly lopsided, mostly because that's not a case I've seen anyone making in here. Zilla feels that there is racism behind "a lot" of the hate against Kaep, but if my memory serves me right, "a lot" =/= "all." 







  1.  






 
bud29 said:
Maybe we need a new pole, "Does disagreeing with CK automatically make you a racist?" I feel like it would be fairly lopsided, mostly because that's not a case I've seen anyone making in here. Zilla feels that there is racism behind "a lot" of the hate against Kaep, but if my memory serves me right, "a lot" =/= "all." 







  1.  




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DO NOT CRITICIZE FCs POLL!!!!!

 
bud29 said:
Maybe we need a new pole, "Does disagreeing with CK automatically make you a racist?" I feel like it would be fairly lopsided, mostly because that's not a case I've seen anyone making in here. Zilla feels that there is racism behind "a lot" of the hate against Kaep, but if my memory serves me right, "a lot" =/= "all." 







  1.  




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That's fine tuning an otherwise sledgehammer-esque point that he was making.  I feel like there should be a logical fallacy somewhere in there. Oh, yeah, it's called ad hominem. 

 
rockaction said:
You make yourself look bad with your hortatory language and willingness to throw epithets out towards reasonable people who disagree with you. This thread went insane when you guys started dominating it and started name calling. 

That's the way I see it.  
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I've never agreed so much with something RA has posted as this. It's pretty spot on. The fact that they're heavily in the minority on the issue is even more entertaining, IMO.

 
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jon_mx said:
Yeah.  They have one of those trails where a jury gets to examine all the evidence and come to a descion on whether the party is guilty or not.  I hate when Constitutional rights are excercized.  
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This assumes the case is prosecuted.

 
Fully admit to sledgehammering, able to handle the anger and insults.  I like a couple crazy pages.  It's Friday.

Also jon, crime rates aren't the issue, crime rates are the symptom.  Fix the issues, ease the symptoms.

 
bud29 said:
Maybe we need a new pole, "Does disagreeing with CK automatically make you a racist?" I feel like it would be fairly lopsided, mostly because that's not a case I've seen anyone making in here. Zilla feels that there is racism behind "a lot" of the hate against Kaep, but if my memory serves me right, "a lot" =/= "all." 
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You should reread his comments, maybe a 3rd time, although that prob wouldn't help. 

I'll quote one that only has four words ; "I called you racists" and then he reiterated his position.  

There was no mention of anyone specific, his quote was directed at everyone in here. He then updated to "a lot" after we went back and forth. Anyone who can read and understand what they're reading can comprehend that. 

 
JZilla said:
Fully admit to sledgehammering, able to handle the anger and insults.  I like a couple crazy pages.  It's Friday.

Also jon, crime rates aren't the issue, crime rates are the symptom.  Fix the issues, ease the symptoms.
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Perhaps I skimmed, but I didn't see anger and insults, I saw pleading and justification.  

 
fantasycurse42 said:
I've never agreed so much with something RA has posted as this. It's pretty spot on. The fact that they're heavily in the minority on the issue is even more entertaining, IMO.
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It is interesting to have me completely neutral for once, I guess. :hifive:  I like that you start threads. In this one, I just see a lot of ridicule and sophmorism from the side that supports Kaep. Sort of like pig cop socks, which are totally sophomoric, if not really, really angry.  

 
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fantasycurse42 said:
You should reread his comments, maybe a 3rd time, although that prob wouldn't help. 

I'll quote one that only has four words ; "I called you racists" and then he reiterated his position.  

There was no mention of anyone specific, his quote was directed at everyone in here. He then updated to "a lot" after we went back and forth. Anyone who can read and understand what they're reading can comprehend that. 
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That's a bit much.  It was more of an "if the shoe fits" thing.

In any case I got a whiff of the conversation I was looking for, and you get to be offended by something new for a day

 
fantasycurse42 said:
You should reread his comments, maybe a 3rd time, although that prob wouldn't help. 

I'll quote one that only has four words ; "I called you racists" and then he reiterated his position.  

There was no mention of anyone specific, his quote was directed at everyone in here. He then updated to "a lot" after we went back and forth. Anyone who can read and understand what they're reading can comprehend that. 
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Alright.  :thumbup:

 
JZilla said:
In "many" of the cases it is police responding to violence.  Again you're saying it but that's not many times what we've seen.  If an MP kills an unarmed civilian in Kabul, he gets court martialled, doesn't really matter what the hell was going on, they'll figure that out in the trial.  Why should cops in inner cities get carte blanche?

Waiting until crime is solved and the people are somehow magically lifted up seems really unhelpful.  The justice system as a whole is a big part of what's wrong in inner cities.  See a problem, why not fix it? 
Click to expand...
The problem of an unfair justice system is a cause of some of the anger.  It would be great if police could do their job without so much killing.  But it is a crappy dangerous job.  The crime in inner cities is out of control.  Without cops, things would be far far worse.  There is a cycle which just won't stop.  Sitting or standing for the national athem is a pretty meaningless side debate, IMHO.  

 
JZilla said:
jon called me stupid.  Now I get to be indignant too.
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I referred to misrepresenting arguements as stupidity.  There was never any direct insult and I am sorry if that was somehow implied.  I argue people's points and tactics, and not the individual.  

 
jon_mx said:
The problem of an unfair justice system is a cause of some of the anger.  It would be great if police could do their job without so much killing.  But it is a crappy dangerous job.  The crime in inner cities is out of control.  Without cops, things would be far far worse.  There is a cycle which just won't stop.  Sitting or standing for the national athem is a pretty meaningless side debate, IMHO.  
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Nobody said take away the cops.  What I'm suggesting is hold the cops to the same level of accountability as we do a 20-year-old MP in a war-torn occupied city.  Or do you think those places are safer?  Black people don't feel they are being served or protected very well, because they don't have the same level of rights in the US's eyes as your average Baghdadi.

 
jon_mx said:
I referred to misrepresenting arguements as stupidity.  There was never any direct insult and I am sorry if that was somehow implied.  I argue people's points and tactics, and not the individual.  
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I never misrepresented your arguments.  Maybe you did a crappy job presenting them. 

I don't feel good about insulting whoever got insulted, but I feel good that you and I are talking about all this heavy #### now

 
JZilla said:
Nobody said take away the cops.  What I'm suggesting is hold the cops to the same level of accountability as we do a 20-year-old MP in a war-torn occupied city.  Or do you think those places are safer?  Black people don't feel they are being served or protected very well, because they don't have the same level of rights in the US's eyes as your average Baghdadi.
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We have a decent system of checks and balances, but if it is failing it should be adjusted.  Police shootings are getting plenty of publicity these days, and I am one to believe if there is evidence of misconduct, it is being taken to trial.  Police deserve the same legal protections as any citizen.  If the DA office is too closely tied to the police, maybe we need more separartion or an additional panel to review.  But I think police in general are held accountable.  

 
JZilla said:
I never misrepresented your arguments.  Maybe you did a crappy job presenting them. 

I don't feel good about insulting whoever got insulted, but I feel good that you and I are talking about all this heavy #### now
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Sure you did.  I go to lengths to explain how values are wieghted, and you turn around and say I give no weight to police violence.  There is far difference between saying you put more weight into one value over another, and trying to extrapolate that into saying I give no value to the point or do not think it deserves to be discussed.  You completed twisted what I said.  

 
JZilla said:
Nobody said take away the cops.  What I'm suggesting is hold the cops to the same level of accountability as we do a 20-year-old MP in a war-torn occupied city.  Or do you think those places are safer?  Black people don't feel they are being served or protected very well, because they don't have the same level of rights in the US's eyes as your average Baghdadi.
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They don't?

 
jon_mx said:
Sure you did.  I go to lengths to explain how values are wieghted, and you turn around and say I give no weight to police violence.  There is far difference between saying you put more weight into one value over another, and trying to extrapolate that into saying I give no value to the point or do not think it deserves to be discussed.  You completed twisted what I said.  
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No, I used your words and even quoted them when you asked me to. What you're saying is that you think the National Anthem is a bigger deal than that particular social cause.  I don't think you have to rate them. 

I think some of these people are being dopey with their particular protest shtick, and CKs' socks were truly awful, but I respect doing what you think it might take to move the conversation (not the socks, the anthem) at the risk of making people mad. 

 
fantasycurse42 said:
If you or anyone else think there is a better place with more opportunity, bon voyage.
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i'm American, fella. not sure what you are. here in the US of America we have the freedom to our opinions. we can do things like sit during the national anthem without fear of retribution. perhaps you'd fit in better somewhere that requires you to adhere to rigid laws revolving around shows of unwilling conformity.

maybe somewhere with a 2nd police force that goes around enforcing moral and religious law. a place where you can be sure that, whether people believe something or not, and let's be honest it doesn't really matter, they will be forced to pretend that they believe.

i was thinking Catholic school.. but since i'm assuming you're an adult (a stretch) and you seem to want to be surrounded by absolutists.... Saudi Arabia seems to be right up your alley.

they behead non-believers there. how neat!

you can be sure that the religious police would strictly enforce prayer 5 times a day, women would definitely know their place and you'd be able to pretend to be a US ally!  only downside: they're awash in oil money so lots of people don't even have to work. they just suck off the government teat. also, foreigners aren't really welcome but maybe they'll make an exception when they see how truly devoted you are to ensuring that all people are kept in line?

 
rockaction said:
Yes, anybody who disagrees with Kaep not standing for the anthem is a racist. 
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it's bang-on correct is what it is

Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf sacrificed his career for his beliefs. Muhammad Ali was banished from his sport and people wanted him dead. 

Megan Rapinoe kneels for the anthem and ............. *crickets*

 
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mr. furley said:
i'm American, fella. not sure what you are. here in the US of America we have the freedom to our opinions. we can do things like sit during the national anthem without fear of retribution. perhaps you'd fit in better somewhere that requires you to adhere to rigid laws revolving around shows of unwilling conformity.

maybe somewhere with a 2nd police force that goes around enforcing moral and religious law. a place where you can be sure that, whether people believe something or not, and let's be honest it doesn't really matter, they will be forced to pretend that they believe.

i was thinking Catholic school.. but since i'm assuming you're an adult (a stretch) and you seem to want to be surrounded by absolutists.... Saudi Arabia seems to be right up your alley.

they behead non-believers there. how neat!

you can be sure that the religious police would strictly enforce prayer 5 times a day, women would definitely know their place and you'd be able to pretend to be a US ally!  only downside: they're awash in oil money so lots of people don't even have to work. they just suck off the government teat. also, foreigners aren't really welcome but maybe they'll make an exception when they see how truly devoted you are to ensuring that all people are kept in line?
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Thanks for making my point.

 
mr. furley said:
it's bang-on correct is what it is

Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf sacrificed his career for his beliefs. Muhammad Ali was banished from his sport and people wanted him dead. 

Megan Rapinoe kneels for the anthem and ............. *crickets*
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Yeah, you're doing the Lord's work in here.  

 
you know who should have got in line? the Jews. i mean, they were citizens of the country for chrissakes. 

maybe if they had just kept their heads down and protested silently we wouldn't have................... any.... more .. of them?

 
jon_mx said:
We have a decent system of checks and balances, but if it is failing it should be adjusted.  Police shootings are getting plenty of publicity these days, and I am one to believe if there is evidence of misconduct, it is being taken to trial.  Police deserve the same legal protections as any citizen.  If the DA office is too closely tied to the police, maybe we need more separartion or an additional panel to review.  But I think police in general are held accountable.  
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This is where you are being ignorant.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
I won't be. I love and appreciate America, certainly enough to stand for 2 minutes.
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i love and appreciate america enough to realize that what makes america awesome is not standing because some guy says you have to but rather what makes it awesome is the freedom to not stand when someone thinks it is important enough to do so take that to truth bank bromigos 

 
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