push the tush play - horrible (Philly Fans Cling Desperately to Rugby Play In It's Final Year) (1 Viewer)

[Rubi]

The forward pass changed the game. Pushing a runner from behind is not changing the game. Defenses will figure it out and limit it's effectiveness.

How?

I'm not a coach,just a fan. Someone much smarter than me in X's and O's will come up with something.

 

[Moonlight]

The push pile play is an abomination. First, give the Eagles credit for perfecting the play and pushing the boundaries legally.

But it sucks the life out of the game watching a rugby scrum whenever teams get to third down and 4th down in short yard age situations. In baseball watching a few teams use the "shift" continuously and then see it spread to all teams using it was a life sucker. The shift made baseball dull and boring. So does the push pile. Yeah the shift works and so does the push pile but is that what you want to watch after the novelty wears off?

Another thing is that to me the QB is getting an unfair advantage in that once his momentum is stopped the butt pushers' legs are still moving and it makes it difficult for refs to determine when forward progress is ended. Also, watching the SB the broadcast team was giving Hurts the credit for moving the pile due to his strong legs when instead it was obvious on some though not all plays the momentum was coming from behind Hurts.

 

[IHEARTFF]

If they do ban it, they will point to risk of serious injury. And that is a legit concern. If this play is called by every team every game next year, some qb is going to get their head bent the wrong way at some point and that will be the end of it.

 

[DropKick]

The push pile play is an abomination. First, give the Eagles credit for perfecting the play and pushing the boundaries legally.

But it sucks the life out of the game watching a rugby scrum whenever teams get to third down and 4th down in short yard age situations. In baseball watching a few teams use the "shift" continuously and then see it spread to all teams using it was a life sucker. The shift made baseball dull and boring. So does the push pile. Yeah the shift works and so does the push pile but is that what you want to watch after the novelty wears off?

Another thing is that to me the QB is getting an unfair advantage in that once his momentum is stopped the butt pushers' legs are still moving and it makes it difficult for refs to determine when forward progress is ended. Also, watching the SB the broadcast team was giving Hurts the credit for moving the pile due to his strong legs when instead it was obvious on some though not all plays the momentum was coming from behind Hurts.

Agree and believe progress was stopped in the SB on a play they allowed to continue.

I'm all for a power running game just omit the "push" aspect. It doesn't seem consistent with the spirit of the game.

 

[ghostguy123]

This play won't have a rule placed against it this offseason.
Every team is going to study how to stop it. If, maybe if, next season it remains unstoppable and even more teams do it a lot, then I think we might see a change.
If it's just a few teams successful with it, then so be it.

 

[BassNBrew]

Personally I'm not a fan of it behind the line or down field. It's makes it dang near impossible to determine when forward progress has ben stopped and where to spot the ball inside the scrum. Lining up multiple defenders over center on kicks and defenders using team mates for leverage was banned. This play sort of fits those categories.

 

[Terpman22]

When this is banned it will be called The Hurts Rule. That's how it goes.

 

[Amused to Death]

When this is banned it will be called The Hurts Rule. That's how it goes.

I just hope their consistent and make it a penalty to help any runner at any point on the field. No pushing a RB across the goal line and no helping a WR with the last yard for a first down.

 

[ChiefD]

I watched some XFL team try this play this weekend and failed miserably.

To me, it's more than just a play. The Eagles are just the best at it because their personnel for that play is elite. Not every team has that.

 

[Terpman22]

I watched some XFL team try this play this weekend and failed miserably.

To me, it's more than just a play. The Eagles are just the best at it because their personnel for that play is elite. Not every team has that.

I saw that too haha. Yeah I mean, "WE" are gonna take it as a law b/c our QB is too strong and our O line is too good. Anyone is welcome to try it, but not everyone can execute it the same as we did. Pretty sure the entire league was whining about "The Tuck Rule" and for whatever reason, they didn't change that particular one for like 15 years or something.

 

[Amused to Death]

I watched some XFL team try this play this weekend and failed miserably.

To me, it's more than just a play. The Eagles are just the best at it because their personnel for that play is elite. Not every team has that.

If the Eagles had gone 5-12 no one would care. Like I said, I hope they don't just punish the Eagles but make it a penalty for any player any place on the field, not just the QB under center.

 

[Rubi]

Teddy Brushki had some interesting comments on this yesterday. He said he's not in favor of outlawing it. Defenses need to figure it out,if big offensive lineman are blocking and the QB is being pushed by other large people then he would put in his biggest D linemen and get behind them and push back. Then he showed a clip of The Eagles running the play with Gardner Minshew and he went nowhere,stopped dead in his tracks. He said it works because of the players involved,Kelce,Hurts,etc. Coaches look for advantages to exploit,The Eagles have found an advantage with Hurts and company. It's up to the defensive coaches to counter it.

 

[ghostguy123]

Teddy Brushki had some interesting comments on this yesterday. He said he's not in favor of outlawing it. Defenses need to figure it out,if big offensive lineman are blocking and the QB is being pushed by other large people then he would put in his biggest D linemen and get behind them and push back. Then he showed a clip of The Eagles running the play with Gardner Minshew and he went nowhere,stopped dead in his tracks. He said it works because of the players involved,Kelce,Hurts,etc. Coaches look for advantages to exploit,The Eagles have found an advantage with Hurts and company. It's up to the defensive coaches to counter it.

As long as they figure out the forward progress part of it then sure, it's no issue.

 

[Amused to Death]

Teddy Brushki had some interesting comments on this yesterday. He said he's not in favor of outlawing it. Defenses need to figure it out,if big offensive lineman are blocking and the QB is being pushed by other large people then he would put in his biggest D linemen and get behind them and push back. Then he showed a clip of The Eagles running the play with Gardner Minshew and he went nowhere,stopped dead in his tracks. He said it works because of the players involved,Kelce,Hurts,etc. Coaches look for advantages to exploit,The Eagles have found an advantage with Hurts and company. It's up to the defensive coaches to counter it.

As long as they figure out the forward progress part of it then sure, it's no issue.

I completely agree, but that goes beyond just this one play. Too many plays are allowed to continue after a player's forward progress has stopped only to have a lineman come and push the pile forward and have the additional yardage count.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Looking forward to teams going with this play full time if they can make it work for 5 yards every down

-QG

 

[massraider]

Pretty sure the entire league was whining about "The Tuck Rule" and for whatever reason, they didn't change that particular one for like 15 years or something.

Good precedent.

Let's change this rule in 2037. Totally in favor of that, and has nothing to do with the Tuck Rule whatsoever.

 

[Amused to Death]

Looking forward to teams going with this play full time if they can make it work for 5 yards every down

-QG

If teams could make it work for 5 yards every down they'd already be doing it. Not every team had the Eagles' O line or a QB with Hurts' leg strength.

 

[QuizGuy66]

Looking forward to teams going with this play full time if they can make it work for 5 yards every down

-QG

If teams could make it work for 5 yards every down they'd already be doing it. Not every team had the Eagles' O line or a QB with Hurts' leg strength.

Give it a little time
-QG

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Looking forward to teams going with this play full time if they can make it work for 5 yards every down

-QG

2.5 yards per play is enough to go 17-0.

But I agree with those who say these plays can be studied and stopped. Its not like the Eagles came up with something that's never been considered or done before, they just did it better than most.

 

[Terpman22]

Pretty sure the entire league was whining about "The Tuck Rule" and for whatever reason, they didn't change that particular one for like 15 years or something.

Good precedent.

Let's change this rule in 2037. Totally in favor of that, and has nothing to do with the Tuck Rule whatsoever.

I guess my point more was "NFL didn't want to say Tom Brady started his career as the greatest player of all time on a play that the league obviously felt was a bad call" had they changed it the following year. Brady and Co. over the years seemed to get away with a lot of stuff like this and off the field like ya know, being penalized for taping practices but then the league destroying all evidence so we never really found out what "really" happened. To each their own. I'm sure you have your own personal feelings on this as well.

This reversal would definitely "feel" like a rule used to stop Jalen Hurts + Eagles. Its been noted other teams can do it, are not as successful, as well as our OWN TEAM with Gardner Minshew getting zilch.

And for the bolded - its a rule change so its under the same umbrella.

 

[ghostguy123]

Looking forward to teams going with this play full time if they can make it work for 5 yards every down

-QG

Cant wait to see the first time it's done with 11 offensive lineman and see how far a fat pile can slowly move forward without the guy with the ball going down.

 

[Gally]

Teddy Brushki had some interesting comments on this yesterday. He said he's not in favor of outlawing it. Defenses need to figure it out,if big offensive lineman are blocking and the QB is being pushed by other large people then he would put in his biggest D linemen and get behind them and push back. Then he showed a clip of The Eagles running the play with Gardner Minshew and he went nowhere,stopped dead in his tracks. He said it works because of the players involved,Kelce,Hurts,etc. Coaches look for advantages to exploit,The Eagles have found an advantage with Hurts and company. It's up to the defensive coaches to counter it.

I think once teams figure out the nuances that it will be utilized by most teams with success. I believe this play gives an unfair advantage to the offense because. They get to deliver the blow and have momentum. In rugby both teams are locked and pushing at the same time it's even. For this it is not which is why I think it will be used by most teams with great success.

I could be wrong and maybe the Eagles just have the personnel and other teams won't be able to do it. If that is the case then it shouldn't be banned.

Time will tell.

 

[renesauz]

If they do ban it, they will point to risk of serious injury. And that is a legit concern. If this play is called by every team every game next year, some qb is going to get their head bent the wrong way at some point and that will be the end of it.

See....I keep hearing about injury risk, but where were the injuries?

Guys fly around at high speeds and massive collisions in football and get hurt all the time. These scrums aren't high speed collisions. They are the equivalent of an arm wrestle or tug of war. They LOOK far more dangerous then they really are. At worst they're no more dangerous then a typical off tackle run getting creamed by a sprinting LB.

Also not getting the 'spirit of the rules" argument. It's within the spirit when three defenders all hit and hold a runner while a fourth comes in an obliterates the whole pile, but not for offensive guys to push that same pile forward? Doesn't make sense to me

 

[renesauz]

Teddy Brushki had some interesting comments on this yesterday. He said he's not in favor of outlawing it. Defenses need to figure it out,if big offensive lineman are blocking and the QB is being pushed by other large people then he would put in his biggest D linemen and get behind them and push back. Then he showed a clip of The Eagles running the play with Gardner Minshew and he went nowhere,stopped dead in his tracks. He said it works because of the players involved,Kelce,Hurts,etc. Coaches look for advantages to exploit,The Eagles have found an advantage with Hurts and company. It's up to the defensive coaches to counter it.

I think once teams figure out the nuances that it will be utilized by most teams with success. I believe this play gives an unfair advantage to the offense because. They get to deliver the blow and have momentum. In rugby both teams are locked and pushing at the same time it's even. For this it is not which is why I think it will be used by most teams with great success.

I could be wrong and maybe the Eagles just have the personnel and other teams won't be able to do it. If that is the case then it shouldn't be banned.

Time will tell.

Ummmmm....no they don't. Defenders in short yardage have the same space to work with....half a yard...to build that momentum.....which is minimal.

Again...where are the supposed injuries?

 

[Amused to Death]

If they do ban it, they will point to risk of serious injury. And that is a legit concern. If this play is called by every team every game next year, some qb is going to get their head bent the wrong way at some point and that will be the end of it.

See....I keep hearing about injury risk, but where were the injuries?

Guys fly around at high speeds and massive collisions in football and get hurt all the time. These scrums aren't high speed collisions. They are the equivalent of an arm wrestle or tug of war. They LOOK far more dangerous then they really are. At worst they're no more dangerous then a typical off tackle run getting creamed by a sprinting LB.

Also not getting the 'spirit of the rules" argument. It's within the spirit when three defenders all hit and hold a runner while a fourth comes in an obliterates the whole pile, but not for offensive guys to push that same pile forward? Doesn't make sense to me

QBs get hurt in the pocket almost every week. No one wants to ban the forward pass.

 

[JAA]

Of all the issues in the NFL and this is what we want to fix?!?!!??

 

[ghostguy123]

Of all the issues in the NFL and this is what we want to fix?!?!!??

In this thread? ?? Yep

 

[Gally]

Ummmmm....no they don't. Defenders in short yardage have the same space to work with....half a yard...to build that momentum.....which is minimal.

Again...where are the supposed injuries?

The offense knows the snap count and gets to move first which is a big advantage to getting an initial push which is all that is needed when trying to get a yard. That is a big advantage for that small of a needed push.

I never said anything about injuries. That is not part of my argument at all.

 

[renesauz]

Ummmmm....no they don't. Defenders in short yardage have the same space to work with....half a yard...to build that momentum.....which is minimal.

Again...where are the supposed injuries?

The offense knows the snap count and gets to move first which is a big advantage to getting an initial push which is all that is needed when trying to get a yard. That is a big advantage for that small of a needed push.

I never said anything about injuries. That is not part of my argument at all.

that timing advantage exists on EVERY play, including the old fashioned Qb sneak. Again, half a yard....no time or space for 'momentum" to be built...and still FAR safer then virtually every other tackle in football where players are moving at far greater speeds.

The "injury risk" is a false flag IMO....I don't think it's real. If anything, it's safer then most plays.

SO here's the thing. If you wanna ban pushing in the back....I'm ok with that. But if they do that, it needs to be banned ALL THE TIME, EVERYWHERE, on offense AND DEFENSE. How often do we see gang tackles where one guy meets the runner and another defender starts pushing from behind the first defender, often three or four such players, who sometimes ALL end up piled on top of the runner.

 

[Gally]

that timing advantage exists on EVERY play, including the old fashioned Qb sneak. Again, half a yard....no time or space for 'momentum" to be built...and still FAR safer then virtually every other tackle in football where players are moving at far greater speeds.

Yes it is and it isn't as important as it is when you are trying to get one yard. QB sneaks (with no pushing) are highly successful. Adding two more guys behind the qb pushing and it becomes even more successful and borderline unstoppable if done properly. It's a huge advantage when needing 1 yard.

I don't know why you keep bringing injury into responses to me. I have never said anything about injury and it is completely irrelevant to my argument.

 

[Mister CIA]

Ummmmm....no they don't. Defenders in short yardage have the same space to work with....half a yard...to build that momentum.....which is minimal.

Again...where are the supposed injuries?

The offense knows the snap count and gets to move first which is a big advantage to getting an initial push which is all that is needed when trying to get a yard. That is a big advantage for that small of a needed push.

I never said anything about injuries. That is not part of my argument at all.

that timing advantage exists on EVERY play, including the old fashioned Qb sneak. Again, half a yard....no time or space for 'momentum" to be built...and still FAR safer then virtually every other tackle in football where players are moving at far greater speeds.

The "injury risk" is a false flag IMO....I don't think it's real. If anything, it's safer then most plays.

SO here's the thing. If you wanna ban pushing in the back....I'm ok with that. But if they do that, it needs to be banned ALL THE TIME, EVERYWHERE, on offense AND DEFENSE. How often do we see gang tackles where one guy meets the runner and another defender starts pushing from behind the first defender, often three or four such players, who sometimes ALL end up piled on top of the runner.

Gonna disagree. Being helplessly propelled in 360 different directions by 3,000 pounds of meat seems a tad dangerous to me. It's an invitation to freak injuries, and by freak I mean horrific.

 

[IHEARTFF]

If they do ban it, they will point to risk of serious injury. And that is a legit concern. If this play is called by every team every game next year, some qb is going to get their head bent the wrong way at some point and that will be the end of it.

See....I keep hearing about injury risk, but where were the injuries?

Guys fly around at high speeds and massive collisions in football and get hurt all the time. These scrums aren't high speed collisions. They are the equivalent of an arm wrestle or tug of war. They LOOK far more dangerous then they really are. At worst they're no more dangerous then a typical off tackle run getting creamed by a sprinting LB.

Also not getting the 'spirit of the rules" argument. It's within the spirit when three defenders all hit and hold a runner while a fourth comes in an obliterates the whole pile, but not for offensive guys to push that same pile forward? Doesn't make sense to me

its not about high speed. its about getting shoved and contorting your body against someone going a different direction beyond your own control

 

[5-ish Finkle]

If they do ban it, they will point to risk of serious injury. And that is a legit concern. If this play is called by every team every game next year, some qb is going to get their head bent the wrong way at some point and that will be the end of it.

See....I keep hearing about injury risk, but where were the injuries?

Guys fly around at high speeds and massive collisions in football and get hurt all the time. These scrums aren't high speed collisions. They are the equivalent of an arm wrestle or tug of war. They LOOK far more dangerous then they really are. At worst they're no more dangerous then a typical off tackle run getting creamed by a sprinting LB.

Also not getting the 'spirit of the rules" argument. It's within the spirit when three defenders all hit and hold a runner while a fourth comes in an obliterates the whole pile, but not for offensive guys to push that same pile forward? Doesn't make sense to me

QBs get hurt in the pocket almost every week. No one wants to ban the forward pass.

Pretty sure Matt Canada does.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

The injury argument is an interesting one for a play that's resulted in 0 injuries in the last 20 years.

The pile gets pushed around on almost every short yardage play. And a thousand other plays that weren't short yardage but where the play gets stood up around the LoS.

 

[Terpman22]

that timing advantage exists on EVERY play, including the old fashioned Qb sneak. Again, half a yard....no time or space for 'momentum" to be built...and still FAR safer then virtually every other tackle in football where players are moving at far greater speeds.

Yes it is and it isn't as important as it is when you are trying to get one yard. QB sneaks (with no pushing) are highly successful. Adding two more guys behind the qb pushing and it becomes even more successful and borderline unstoppable if done properly. It's a huge advantage when needing 1 yard.

I don't know why you keep bringing injury into responses to me. I have never said anything about injury and it is completely irrelevant to my argument.

Other than the Eagles, I'd like to know 2 teams that are doing it properly to the point of it being unstoppable. What teams are even doing this besides the Eagles at all, often enough for the league to look at it? Copycat league and all you'd think every team would incorporate an "unstoppable" play into their repertoire of offensive play calls.

Even the Eagles when Gardner Minshew is in at QB is stopped, fyi and they stopped going to it.

 

[ghostguy123]

Honestly, I'm sure sure that anything Garner Minshew can do or not do should be factored into any decision made, ever.

 

[Terpman22]

Honestly, I'm sure sure that anything Garner Minshew can do or not do should be factored into any decision made, ever.

Fashion, withstanding

 

[trader jake]

Pretty sure the entire league was whining about "The Tuck Rule" and for whatever reason, they didn't change that particular one for like 15 years or something.

Some believe the NFL knew the rule was in need of change very quickly, but they didn't make the move because of the immense backlash to the original call they would have received. Basically, they knew it was bad but elected to double-down on it rather than getting rid of a non-sensical interpretation of sack fumble vs incompletion.

Your mileage may vary on that thought process, but it can't outright be dismissed. Mainly because the NFL does a lot of things that way. See also: the catch rule over the past 15 years. Hopefully they get rid of this push the pile play before it takes on a life of its own and becomes more irritating than whatever commercial gets shown 50 times each Sunday.

 

[Terpman22]

Pretty sure the entire league was whining about "The Tuck Rule" and for whatever reason, they didn't change that particular one for like 15 years or something.

Some believe the NFL knew the rule was in need of change very quickly, but they didn't make the move because of the immense backlash to the original call they would have received. Basically, they knew it was bad but elected to double-down on it rather than getting rid of a non-sensical interpretation of sack fumble vs incompletion.

Your mileage may vary on that thought process, but it can't outright be dismissed. Mainly because the NFL does a lot of things that way. See also: the catch rule over the past 15 years. Hopefully they get rid of this push the pile play before it takes on a life of its own and becomes more irritating than whatever commercial gets shown 50 times each Sunday.

This rule was changed 17 years ago.

 

[nysfl2]

that timing advantage exists on EVERY play, including the old fashioned Qb sneak. Again, half a yard....no time or space for 'momentum" to be built...and still FAR safer then virtually every other tackle in football where players are moving at far greater speeds.

Yes it is and it isn't as important as it is when you are trying to get one yard. QB sneaks (with no pushing) are highly successful. Adding two more guys behind the qb pushing and it becomes even more successful and borderline unstoppable if done properly. It's a huge advantage when needing 1 yard.

I don't know why you keep bringing injury into responses to me. I have never said anything about injury and it is completely irrelevant to my argument.

Other than the Eagles, I'd like to know 2 teams that are doing it properly to the point of it being unstoppable. What teams are even doing this besides the Eagles at all, often enough for the league to look at it? Copycat league and all you'd think every team would incorporate an "unstoppable" play into their repertoire of offensive play calls.

Even the Eagles when Gardner Minshew is in at QB is stopped, fyi and they stopped going to it.

Minshew ran 8 times last year. It looks like less than 5 of them were "push the pile" plays (I didn't track them all down) and 1 was a successful push the pile play in the Cowboys game. This hardly counts as evidence that only Hurts can do it.

Also, I'm sure that the timing of everyone involved in the play is crucial for the success, so a backup who doesn't do it as much would throw that off.

 

[Amused to Death]

The only reason this is an issue now is because the Eagles used it at high rate of success, far more than any other team. No one can come up with a convincing reason why it needs to be banned, they just know it does. Its not because of injury (no one's been injured and there are far more dangerous plays), Its not because other teams may try to use it (let them, they don't have the Eagles' 2022 O line or a QB with the leg strength of Hurts), its not because its "boring" (any short yardage play where an RB runs into the pile is the same thing), and its not because the runner has an unfair advantage with the push (teams have been pushing the pile a few yards for years).

Its because the Eagles were successful. If they had gone 5-12 no one would care. It got talked about during every game later in the season and some people didn't like it. Cry me a river.

 

[trader jake]

Teddy Brushki had some interesting comments on this yesterday. He said he's not in favor of outlawing it. Defenses need to figure it out,if big offensive lineman are blocking and the QB is being pushed by other large people then he would put in his biggest D linemen and get behind them and push back. Then he showed a clip of The Eagles running the play with Gardner Minshew and he went nowhere,stopped dead in his tracks. He said it works because of the players involved,Kelce,Hurts,etc. Coaches look for advantages to exploit,The Eagles have found an advantage with Hurts and company. It's up to the defensive coaches to counter it.

So an ex-player believes the success of a play is due to the players involved? Color me shocked. One of the reasons so many NFL shows are poor quality is because TV executives insist on filling the screen with ex-players.

NBA fans had to listen to the same non-sense regarding the "Hack-A-Shaq" intentional foul defensive strategy. A bunch of talking head ex-players yelled, "The make your free throws" just like some NFL sock puppets are telling defenses to just "stop the play" now. Sure. Doing so would certainly change things, but so does changing the rule. Let's do that rather than being subjected to a strategically limited, horribly unwatchable, huge injury risk, difficult to officiate, boring AF "smart" play.

Or do nothing, watch this nonsense expand to many more game situations and teams, and then make the rule change down the line. This play will get outlawed in some way, it's just whether or not the NFL subjects our eyeballs to it for another year (or because it's the NFL - ten more).

 

[Terpman22]

The only reason this is an issue now is because the Eagles used it at high rate of success, far more than any other team. No one can come up with a convincing reason why it needs to be banned, they just know it does. Its not because of injury (no one's been injured and there are far more dangerous plays), Its not because other teams may try to use it (let them, they don't have the Eagles' 2022 O line or a QB with the leg strength of Hurts), its not because its "boring" (any short yardage play where an RB runs into the pile is the same thing), and its not because the runner has an unfair advantage with the push (teams have been pushing the pile a few yards for years).

Its because the Eagles were successful. If they had gone 5-12 no one would care. It got talked about during every game later in the season and some people didn't like it. Cry me a river.

Sums up exactly how I and most Eagles fans feel. The arguments are lame. And the "not aesthetically pleasing" side is the same BS they used when Kareem could not be stopped (Lew Alcindor) in college so they just said "Ya know what. NO MORE DUNKING FOR YOU BUDDY SEE HOW GOOD YOU ARE THEN"

 

[Rubi]

F.Y.I The Eagles conversion rate on qb sneaks this past season was just short of 90%
Tom Bradys' conversion rate on qb sneaks for his CAREER was 82.8%
Should Tom Brady have been barred from sneaking?

And Jalen Hurts was a power lifter in high school,he can squat 600 pounds,the dude has some power in those legs

 

[Gally]

The only reason this is an issue now is because the Eagles used it at high rate of success, far more than any other team. No one can come up with a convincing reason why it needs to be banned, they just know it does. Its not because of injury (no one's been injured and there are far more dangerous plays), Its not because other teams may try to use it (let them, they don't have the Eagles' 2022 O line or a QB with the leg strength of Hurts), its not because its "boring" (any short yardage play where an RB runs into the pile is the same thing), and its not because the runner has an unfair advantage with the push (teams have been pushing the pile a few yards for years).

Its because the Eagles were successful. If they had gone 5-12 no one would care. It got talked about during every game later in the season and some people didn't like it. Cry me a river.

If it turns out no other team can run this with success and it remains an Eagles only play then I have no issue with it.

My fear is that other teams will learn the nuances and it will become a league wide goto that can't be stopped turning this into rugby.

I believe the reason other teams didn't incorporate it last year is because they didn't have a chance to figure out the nuances and then the time to implement them properly. I think an off season and film study will lend itself to every team putting into their playbook with success.

I could be wrong for sure. But it's what I believe and why I think it should be disallowed. Now if other teams cannot replicate it then good on the Eaglea and let them keep doing it.

 

[renesauz]

that timing advantage exists on EVERY play, including the old fashioned Qb sneak. Again, half a yard....no time or space for 'momentum" to be built...and still FAR safer then virtually every other tackle in football where players are moving at far greater speeds.

Yes it is and it isn't as important as it is when you are trying to get one yard. QB sneaks (with no pushing) are highly successful. Adding two more guys behind the qb pushing and it becomes even more successful and borderline unstoppable if done properly. It's a huge advantage when needing 1 yard.

I don't know why you keep bringing injury into responses to me. I have never said anything about injury and it is completely irrelevant to my argument.

"Injury risk" is by far the biggest argument used against it.

If your argument is simply "I don't like it", well.....I don't know what to say about that.

Again, ban pushing in the back all the time in all situations if that's your issue, not just on QB sneaks

 

[Terpman22]

The only reason this is an issue now is because the Eagles used it at high rate of success, far more than any other team. No one can come up with a convincing reason why it needs to be banned, they just know it does. Its not because of injury (no one's been injured and there are far more dangerous plays), Its not because other teams may try to use it (let them, they don't have the Eagles' 2022 O line or a QB with the leg strength of Hurts), its not because its "boring" (any short yardage play where an RB runs into the pile is the same thing), and its not because the runner has an unfair advantage with the push (teams have been pushing the pile a few yards for years).

Its because the Eagles were successful. If they had gone 5-12 no one would care. It got talked about during every game later in the season and some people didn't like it. Cry me a river.

If it turns out no other team can run this with success and it remains an Eagles only play then I have no issue with it.

My fear is that other teams will learn the nuances and it will become a league wide goto that can't be stopped turning this into rugby.

I believe the reason other teams didn't incorporate it last year is because they didn't have a chance to figure out the nuances and then the time to implement them properly. I think an off season and film study will lend itself to every team putting into their playbook with success.

I could be wrong for sure. But it's what I believe and why I think it should be disallowed. Now if other teams cannot replicate it then good on the Eaglea and let them keep doing it.

Makes sense, since the Eagles had the easiest schedule in professional sports history, they could dedicate more time to practicing a QB sneak play that comes up less than 40 times per season more than any other team.

 

[Gally]

"Injury risk" is by far the biggest argument used against it.

If your argument is simply "I don't like it", well.....I don't know what to say about that.

Again, ban pushing in the back all the time in all situations if that's your issue, not just on QB sneaks

My argument is that I think it is an unfair advantage to the offense. If I am right (and that isn't necessarily true) then most teams will perfect the techniques and its use will become widespread. If that is the case I would like to see it go away.

If I am wrong (which is just as likely) and this is only an Eagle success due to their specific personnel then keep doing it and enjoy the success as it is well deserved.

It's not the push alone I don't like .....it's the advantage I think it gives the offense

Although I don't really like it downfield either and would prefer that to be disallowed as well. My real issue is that I think the rugby sneak is a big advantage to the offense.

 

[Gally]

Makes sense, since the Eagles had the easiest schedule in professional sports history, they could dedicate more time to practicing a QB sneak play that comes up less than 40 times per season more than any other team.

Or it could be they have a smart coaching staff that figured out the nuances and started working it all off season to implement for this year.

 

[Terpman22]

Makes sense, since the Eagles had the easiest schedule in professional sports history, they could dedicate more time to practicing a QB sneak play that comes up less than 40 times per season more than any other team.

Or it could be they have a smart coaching staff that figured out the nuances and started working it all off season to implement for this year.

That would be a logical take. Again, this rule has been in place for 17 years, anyone could have been doing it this way the whole time if they wanted to. Just seems strange when just 1 single team is super successful at it, the league would come down on it. I have beaten this horse dead enough though so I guess we will have to see what truly happens down the road.