Tush Push - for fans that love replay reviews and NCAA commercials (1 Viewer)

[rockaction]

Makes sense, since the Eagles had the easiest schedule in professional sports history

I'm glad you're big enough to be able to admit that.

Easiest. Schedule. Ever. For. A. Super. Bowl. Team.

 

[rockaction]

Back to the topic, it was funny, because I thought the push in the back was already outlawed until teams started doing it intentionally with their RBs about three years ago.

This isn't just an Eagle thing in the making, O-lines were doing this in the running game with frequency the past few years. I noticed it, and thought it was illegal but unenforced when they started.

My opinion is the same as Gally's. I think it should be illegal, and I don't think its success owes to Hurts's legs or Dallas Goedert's push or anything like that. I think you could easily line up two OL as backfield runners and execute the same play with virtually any QB sneaker you want.

It is, like somebody mentioned upthread, just like the shift in baseball. It's unwatchable, and this is supposed to be entertainment.

 

[rockaction]

Speaking of which, how about that pitch clock in baseball?

Awesome. I hope it doesn't go unenforced like DPI in football did when they subjected it to replay.

 

[nysfl2]

F.Y.I The Eagles conversion rate on qb sneaks this past season was just short of 90%
Tom Bradys' conversion rate on qb sneaks for his CAREER was 82.8%
Should Tom Brady have been barred from sneaking?

And Jalen Hurts was a power lifter in high school,he can squat 600 pounds,the dude has some power in those legs

So let him convert with his superpowered legs, and not with two guys shoving his *** from behind

 

[Alex P Keaton]

that timing advantage exists on EVERY play, including the old fashioned Qb sneak. Again, half a yard....no time or space for 'momentum" to be built...and still FAR safer then virtually every other tackle in football where players are moving at far greater speeds.

Yes it is and it isn't as important as it is when you are trying to get one yard. QB sneaks (with no pushing) are highly successful. Adding two more guys behind the qb pushing and it becomes even more successful and borderline unstoppable if done properly. It's a huge advantage when needing 1 yard.

I don't know why you keep bringing injury into responses to me. I have never said anything about injury and it is completely irrelevant to my argument.

"Injury risk" is by far the biggest argument used against it.

If your argument is simply "I don't like it", well.....I don't know what to say about that.

Again, ban pushing in the back all the time in all situations if that's your issue, not just on QB sneaks

That’s exactly what the proposal should be: ban pushing in the back all the time.

I’m waiting to see the day a tall basketball player hoists another player into the air so he/she can dunk. (joking)

 

[Penguin]

Not a proponent, but that's just one man's humble opinion

 

[Terpman22]

Makes sense, since the Eagles had the easiest schedule in professional sports history

I'm glad you're big enough to be able to admit that.

Easiest. Schedule. Ever. For. A. Super. Bowl. Team.

Nah man, Professional sports history, including other countries too. I did the research.

 

[GregR]

I agree it's not a play that has much entertainment value for me. I think getting rid of it is entirely justifiable. There are rules about requirements how they line up, wearing numbers that help the defense identify and match up, and allowing time for such changes because it makes a more watchable sport. There's plenty of precedent for such a thing.

I'd be fine if they used a wording that allows pushing further upfield when a runner is dragging people with him and a lineman helps. Something that restricts it near to the line would be fine for me.

 

[joey]

I’m fine with the play. It works.
Harkens back to the rugby scrum origins of the game and I dig it for some reason.

 

[renesauz]

F.Y.I The Eagles conversion rate on qb sneaks this past season was just short of 90%
Tom Bradys' conversion rate on qb sneaks for his CAREER was 82.8%
Should Tom Brady have been barred from sneaking?

And Jalen Hurts was a power lifter in high school,he can squat 600 pounds,the dude has some power in those legs

So let him convert with his superpowered legs, and not with two guys shoving his *** from behind

Again...also outlaw LB's hitting their own Dlineman from behind and pushing (which they do) and gang tackles in the open field where two or three guys join in with the overwhelming amount of their force applied to the back of another defender.

 

[renesauz]

I’m fine with the play. It works.
Harkens back to the rugby scrum origins of the game and I dig it for some reason.

me too.

football has a lot of shared DNA with rugby.

 

[Snoopy]

The competition committee will reportingly visit the play in March.

 

[jm192]

I don't think it needs changing at this point.

People are talking like it's made the game unwatchable. I'm 100% guessing, so feel free to slap me down--but I would assume the NFL and the Super Bowl had another great year in terms of ratings and financials.

 

[Amused to Death]

Once the NFL bans this, and I have no doubt they will, I hope the Eagles make use of Mailata's rugby skills and have him line up under center - all 6'-8" 370 lbs just pushing the pile forward.

 

[-OZ-]

I don't think it needs changing at this point.

People are talking like it's made the game unwatchable. I'm 100% guessing, so feel free to slap me down--but I would assume the NFL and the Super Bowl had another great year in terms of ratings and financials.

If it was so unstoppable, it seems more teams would do it. Next the committee will try to prohibit Derrick Henry from running on short yardage, or Patrick Mahomes from playing “injured”

 

[Amused to Death]

If it was so unstoppable, it seems more teams would do it. Next the committee will try to prohibit Derrick Henry from running on short yardage, or Patrick Mahomes from playing “injured”

Right, its "unstoppable" because of the personnel. Tom Brady had an 82% success rate running the sneak while he was a Patriot. He stopped running it when he went to TB because he didn't have the same O-line in front of him.

 

[-OZ-]

If it was so unstoppable, it seems more teams would do it. Next the committee will try to prohibit Derrick Henry from running on short yardage, or Patrick Mahomes from playing “injured”

Right, its "unstoppable" because of the personnel. Tom Brady had an 82% success rate running the sneak while he was a Patriot. He stopped running it when he went to TB because he didn't have the same O-line in front of him.

I guess I’ve just never understood why you wouldn’t do this play with a RB. give Boston Scott the direct snap and push him. Dude is shorter and might be stronger. Not to go there but more expendable than hurts.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

guess I’ve just never understood why you wouldn’t do this play with a RB. give Boston Scott the direct snap and push him.

They need a human bowling ball that they can roll right through the line.

 

[-OZ-]

guess I’ve just never understood why you wouldn’t do this play with a RB. give Boston Scott the direct snap and push him.

They need a human bowling ball that they can roll right through the line.

Jerome Bettis retired a while ago.

 

[Amused to Death]

I guess I’ve just never understood why you wouldn’t do this play with a RB. give Boston Scott the direct snap and push him. Dude is shorter and might be stronger. Not to go there but more expendable than hurts.

My guess is that Hurts is just the more powerful runner.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The "push the pile" play is a scourge that must be done away with. It'll lead to many more injuries and fights as defenders grab a QBs leg or take shots at his arms and even head to get at the ball.

It's also anti-strategy. Sure, there are some wrinkles that could be run off the victory style formation and push, but most of the time it'll be the QB getting the snap and then getting pushed for a few yards. That's not the NFL in 2023, that's rugby in 1970.

Get rid of this stupidity. If it's 4th and 1 I want a team going for it to really have to make a decision, not just blindly make a near automatic call. That's video game non-sense. Do away with offensive players being able to push a ball carrier forward before this gets even worse.

Rugby you say?

-What if we removed the helmets for this specific play only?

 

[Amused to Death]

Looks like this may not have the votes to ban. Per Peter King;s FMIA:

As for the Competition Committee rugby-scrum legislation, I think there’s just as much of a chance it doesn’t come up for a vote this spring as it gets voted out of the game. (Rejoice, Eagles.) Why? Because the Competition Committee and Roger Goodell won’t bring up a pushing-the-QB ban for a vote at the owners’ meetings in three weeks if it’s going to fail.

I wonder why PK refers to this as "pushing-the-QB" ban. Why not ban ALL players from being pushed? Seems like this is a pretty specific wording to stop one team.

 

[Terpman22]

Looks like this may not have the votes to ban. Per Peter King;s FMIA:

As for the Competition Committee rugby-scrum legislation, I think there’s just as much of a chance it doesn’t come up for a vote this spring as it gets voted out of the game. (Rejoice, Eagles.) Why? Because the Competition Committee and Roger Goodell won’t bring up a pushing-the-QB ban for a vote at the owners’ meetings in three weeks if it’s going to fail.

I wonder why PK refers to this as "pushing-the-QB" ban. Why not ban ALL players from being pushed? Seems like this is a pretty specific wording to stop one team.

So they are going to allow the Eagles to keep cheating. Great.

 

[trader jake]

I don't think it needs changing at this point.

People are talking like it's made the game unwatchable. I'm 100% guessing, so feel free to slap me down--but I would assume the NFL and the Super Bowl had another great year in terms of ratings and financials.

If ratings were the only barometer to making real changes, the NFL wouldn't do much to improve the game on the field.

Which is why we now have endless game stoppages, a million commercials, and games on as many days of the week as they can muster.

Ratings and money can't be the only reason a league adjusts it's rules. The more say owners like Daniel Snyder and Jerry Jones have over the game the worse we all are as fans.

If it was so unstoppable, it seems more teams would do it. Next the committee will try to prohibit Derrick Henry from running on short yardage, or Patrick Mahomes from playing “injured”

The Henry & Mahomes line is just foolishness. As far as the push the pile play ...just wait, that damn thing is going to be all over the NFL next year. If it's not outlawed there are going to be a lot more people bitching and moaning about that play soon enough.

In true NFL form, they won't prevent the fire but instead wait to put it out in a year (or two) after a devasting injury or huge fight breaks out on the field because of it.

 

[JohnnyU]

I remember years ago getting pissed because the refs blew the whistle too soon. Now it has swung to the opposite direction. I do think they need a rule that prohibits players from pushing their own players from behind.

 

[FairWarning]

Speaking of which, how about that pitch clock in baseball?

Awesome. I hope it doesn't go unenforced like DPI in football did when they subjected it to replay.

It great in the minors last year.

 

[Terpman22]

Per PFT, the effort to alter this play and change the rules didn't make the cut.

Great news for the Eagles, bad news for the haters.

Will be fun seeing a bunch of other teams try to copy this now.

 

[trader jake]

Per PFT, the effort to alter this play and change the rules didn't make the cut.

Great news for the Eagles, bad news for the haters.

Will be fun seeing a bunch of other teams try to copy this now.

Bad news for every football watching fan with eyeballs. The NFL, like always, won't do anything until the anvil of obviousness hits them directly on the head.

Welcome to a 2023 season full of this stupid play.

 

[joey]

I saw this play happen in an XFL game this weekend.
guess what?


It worked!

why wouldn’t you want your team to run this “enhanced QB sneak” to get that one yard for a first down?

 

[Deamon]

I don't think it needs changing at this point.

People are talking like it's made the game unwatchable. I'm 100% guessing, so feel free to slap me down--but I would assume the NFL and the Super Bowl had another great year in terms of ratings and financials.

If it was so unstoppable, it seems more teams would do it. Next the committee will try to prohibit Derrick Henry from running on short yardage, or Patrick Mahomes from playing “injured”

Exactly this. I don't think "Oh everyone is just going to do this now" as much as people think. Why hadn't any other team done it much in the past, it's not like Philly discovered this brilliant innovative play. Everyone could do it if they wanted and chose not to. Not many/any QB's have the leg strength that Hurts has. I guarantee you Payton won't be calling this play often for Russel.

 

[BassNBrew]

If the offense can propel players, please allow the defense to hurdle the line or launch off players backs.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[Terpman22]

If the offense can propel players, please allow the defense to hurdle the line or launch off players backs.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Gonna have to wait til next year on this one buddy.

 

[trader jake]

Aside from saying Roger Goodell should show leadership and do something about, well, anything (yeah, ok ) PFT nailed why this rule should be changed.

With no proposed rule change on the table, the NFL will continue to monitor the quarterback push play

The NFL's annual meetings with convene with no proposal on the table from the Competition Committee or any of the league's 32 teams to remove the rule that allows the ballcarrier to be pushed by a teammate.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

 

[Terpman22]

Aside from saying Roger Goodell should show leadership and do something about, well, anything (yeah, ok ) PFT nailed why this rule should be changed.

With no proposed rule change on the table, the NFL will continue to monitor the quarterback push play

The NFL's annual meetings with convene with no proposal on the table from the Competition Committee or any of the league's 32 teams to remove the rule that allows the ballcarrier to be pushed by a teammate.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Meh. Patrick Mahomes dislocated a knee cap on a basic QB sneak. I would expect them, if they want to be consistent, to start collecting injury data on basic QB sneaks.

Reminder, this rule has been like this going on **18** years, and Eagles fans like myself, and rightfully so IMO, do feel targeted now that the play is being used almost exclusively like this by the Eagles. And again, I will be very curious to see what other teams attempt it, with definitely inferior personnel than what the Eagles have (#1 ranked O line from 2022 + QB that squats 600 lbs).

 

[eighsse2]

Aside from saying Roger Goodell should show leadership and do something about, well, anything (yeah, ok ) PFT nailed why this rule should be changed.

With no proposed rule change on the table, the NFL will continue to monitor the quarterback push play

The NFL's annual meetings with convene with no proposal on the table from the Competition Committee or any of the league's 32 teams to remove the rule that allows the ballcarrier to be pushed by a teammate.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

So it should be banned because it could cause an injury to the most important player on the field? If that's truly the concern, wouldn't the coaches be banning it from their own playbooks to begin with?

 

[Amused to Death]

Aside from saying Roger Goodell should show leadership and do something about, well, anything (yeah, ok ) PFT nailed why this rule should be changed.

With no proposed rule change on the table, the NFL will continue to monitor the quarterback push play

The NFL's annual meetings with convene with no proposal on the table from the Competition Committee or any of the league's 32 teams to remove the rule that allows the ballcarrier to be pushed by a teammate.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Aren't QB's typically injured while dropping back in the pocket and getting sacked? Maybe they should ban the "sack"? Because they QBs get injured.

 

[Amused to Death]

Reminder, this rule has been like this going on **18** years, and Eagles fans like myself, and rightfully so IMO, do feel targeted now that the play is being used almost exclusively like this by the Eagles. And again, I will be very curious to see what other teams attempt it, with definitely inferior personnel than what the Eagles have (#1 ranked O line from 2022 + QB that squats 600 lbs).

Like I said in the Eagles thread, if this ever gets banned then just wait till the Eagles start using (nearly) 400 lb Mailata to "push the pile". Make use of his rugby skills. See if anyone gets hurt then.

Maybe there will be an effort to ban 400 lb linemen from carrying the ball too.

 

[joey]

I do think the “safer” method is to have your RB or FB practice direct snaps from center a million times in practice. Then you run this play with a bigger player handling the ball and don’t risk injuring your QB. I’d love to see FBs get some rare playing time and be the first down scrum heroes.

 

[Moonlight]

Per PFT, the effort to alter this play and change the rules didn't make the cut.

Great news for the Eagles, bad news for the haters.

Will be fun seeing a bunch of other teams try to copy this now.

Bad news for every football watching fan with eyeballs. The NFL, like always, won't do anything until the anvil of obviousness hits them directly on the head.

Welcome to a 2023 season full of this stupid play.

You said it. Most everyone will be running this next year in one form or another.

 

[Terpman22]

Per PFT, the effort to alter this play and change the rules didn't make the cut.

Great news for the Eagles, bad news for the haters.

Will be fun seeing a bunch of other teams try to copy this now.

Bad news for every football watching fan with eyeballs. The NFL, like always, won't do anything until the anvil of obviousness hits them directly on the head.

Welcome to a 2023 season full of this stupid play.

You said it. Most everyone will be running this next year in one form or another.

I believe this to be true. What I also believe to be true is the fact that *a lot* of teams won't have the same success rate as the Eagles will. Can't wait to see guys like Cousins, Goff and lil Kyler try it.

 

[Moonlight]

Per PFT, the effort to alter this play and change the rules didn't make the cut.

Great news for the Eagles, bad news for the haters.

Will be fun seeing a bunch of other teams try to copy this now.

Bad news for every football watching fan with eyeballs. The NFL, like always, won't do anything until the anvil of obviousness hits them directly on the head.

Welcome to a 2023 season full of this stupid play.

You said it. Most everyone will be running this next year in one form or another.

I believe this to be true. What I also believe to be true is the fact that *a lot* of teams won't have the same success rate as the Eagles will. Can't wait to see guys like Cousins, Goff and lil Kyler try it.

Agree could see those teams having FBs, Taysom Hill types running it.
But are you saying perchance the Eagles have the best butt pushers in the league?

ut are you saying the Eagles

 

[DJackson10]

I saw this play happen in an XFL game this weekend.
guess what?


It worked!

why wouldn’t you want your team to run this “enhanced QB sneak” to get that one yard for a first down?

I saw a similar version of this in college but they faked the sneak and had the Outside TE run a streak. Dude was wide open and scored. 21' UTEP Reminded me of the Tebow Jump Passes.

UTEP "Fake QB Sneak" Trick Play TD vs Fresno State | 2021 College Football

During the college football game between UTEP and Fresno State, UTEP ran an incredible trick play in the fourth quarter when their QB lined up under center i...

www.youtube.com

 

[DJackson10]

Aside from saying Roger Goodell should show leadership and do something about, well, anything (yeah, ok ) PFT nailed why this rule should be changed.

With no proposed rule change on the table, the NFL will continue to monitor the quarterback push play

The NFL's annual meetings with convene with no proposal on the table from the Competition Committee or any of the league's 32 teams to remove the rule that allows the ballcarrier to be pushed by a teammate.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Meh. Patrick Mahomes dislocated a knee cap on a basic QB sneak. I would expect them, if they want to be consistent, to start collecting injury data on basic QB sneaks.

Reminder, this rule has been like this going on **18** years, and Eagles fans like myself, and rightfully so IMO, do feel targeted now that the play is being used almost exclusively like this by the Eagles. And again, I will be very curious to see what other teams attempt it, with definitely inferior personnel than what the Eagles have (#1 ranked O line from 2022 + QB that squats 600 lbs).

I don't. Not everyone is out to get us. If that were the case we wouldn't even be in the SB. The NFL would've found a way to make sure we lost the #1 seed or lost to the Giants.

 

[Terpman22]

Per PFT, the effort to alter this play and change the rules didn't make the cut.

Great news for the Eagles, bad news for the haters.

Will be fun seeing a bunch of other teams try to copy this now.

Bad news for every football watching fan with eyeballs. The NFL, like always, won't do anything until the anvil of obviousness hits them directly on the head.

Welcome to a 2023 season full of this stupid play.

You said it. Most everyone will be running this next year in one form or another.

I believe this to be true. What I also believe to be true is the fact that *a lot* of teams won't have the same success rate as the Eagles will. Can't wait to see guys like Cousins, Goff and lil Kyler try it.

Agree could see those teams having FBs, Taysom Hill types running it.
But are you saying perchance the Eagles have the best butt pushers in the league?

ut are you saying the Eagles

I mean, I dunno why they decided to start doing it, but my guess is the coaching staff really felt the play was unstoppable and the results speak for themselves. Its not like a crazy innovation either, anyone could have been doing it the last 17 years. But now its sort of a big deal that a team found a way to be extremely successful at it.

Maybe we also go the best tush pushers, I wouldn't argue against it!

 

[DJackson10]

I do think the “safer” method is to have your RB or FB practice direct snaps from center a million times in practice. Then you run this play with a bigger player handling the ball and don’t risk injuring your QB. I’d love to see FBs get some rare playing time and be the first down scrum heroes.

Imagine Henrey or Bettis or Mike Alstott running this play or even Jon Ritchie back then or Moose?

 

[Boston]

I give the Eagles credit...what they are doing is legal and they are using it very effectively...smart way of doing business...BB has done this with a few rules and eventually they got changed...my issue is I find it to be a totally unentertaining play that adds absolutely nothing to the game...I hope it gets banned so I don't have to watch it anymore.

 

[Amused to Death]

my issue is I find it to be a totally unentertaining play that adds absolutely nothing to the game...I hope it gets banned so I don't have to watch it anymore.

How is it any less entertaining than a RB running into the pile? Should that be banned too? Wouldn't a RB with an 8 yard head of steam be more dangerous?

 

[DJackson10]

Per PFT, the effort to alter this play and change the rules didn't make the cut.

Great news for the Eagles, bad news for the haters.

Will be fun seeing a bunch of other teams try to copy this now.

Bad news for every football watching fan with eyeballs. The NFL, like always, won't do anything until the anvil of obviousness hits them directly on the head.

Welcome to a 2023 season full of this stupid play.

You said it. Most everyone will be running this next year in one form or another.

I believe this to be true. What I also believe to be true is the fact that *a lot* of teams won't have the same success rate as the Eagles will. Can't wait to see guys like Cousins, Goff and lil Kyler try it.

Agree could see those teams having FBs, Taysom Hill types running it.
But are you saying perchance the Eagles have the best butt pushers in the league?

ut are you saying the Eagles

I mean, I dunno why they decided to start doing it, but my guess is the coaching staff really felt the play was unstoppable and the results speak for themselves. Its not like a crazy innovation either, anyone could have been doing it the last 17 years. But now its sort of a big deal that a team found a way to be extremely successful at it.

Maybe we also go the best tush pushers, I wouldn't argue against it!

Like the Philly Special they probably got this play from one of their assistance who saw it on film during a college game. I linked the UTEP fake sneak which is from the same formation. So probably some low level College team ran this Eagles saw it and knew they had a big body QB who could handle it.

 

[Boston]

my issue is I find it to be a totally unentertaining play that adds absolutely nothing to the game...I hope it gets banned so I don't have to watch it anymore.

How is it any less entertaining than a RB running into the pile? Should that be banned too? Wouldn't a RB with an 8 yard head of steam be more dangerous?

Did I mention anything about injuries or dangerousness? I did not...if you like the play than hopefully they keep it so you can watch it...maybe they can bring back leather helmets without facemasks next...I just have no use for this play as a fan, but others do so that's just how it is.

 

[DJackson10]

I give the Eagles credit...what they are doing is legal and they are using it very effectively...smart way of doing business...BB has done this with a few rules and eventually they got changed...my issue is I find it to be a totally unentertaining play that adds absolutely nothing to the game...I hope it gets banned so I don't have to watch it anymore.

I mean you can draw up different plays from it. UTEP has the fake Sneak TE Pop pass from the same formation. Maye you fake the sneak and have a mobile enough QB run a bootleg instead with the RPO with the run being keeping it himself instead of handing it off. If I seriously went and watched this formation on film for an hour I could probably come up with 6-8 plays out of this formation alone. Not saying I should call plays but the formation could be very handy