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QB Aaron Rodgers, NYJ (1 Viewer)

Let's not forget last season when he faked being hurt against the Bears and came back in two months later to oust the Bears and steal the division title from them.

 
Check out this thread from 2007 - Aaron Rodgers for Randy Moss.

Comments are especially :lmao:

Moss wasn't enough but a 2nd+ or a future 1st and Moss would have got it done. They would still have had the 1.1 to take Calvin.

Imagine Rodgers to Calvin.

 
Let's not forget last season when he faked being hurt against the Bears and came back in two months later to oust the Bears and steal the division title from them.
You mean when he had a fractured collarbone on his non throwing side, a 4-6 week injury, and they wouldn't let him play for 8 weeks?Rodgers was elite this year and 3 years ago. The two years in between he wasn't all that. He's got to win s few more playoff games before I even consider him in the GOAT category.

 
I think a Rodgers claim for top billing is laughable as well... He is very good but there are many QBs who have played at the same high level and done it longer.
Considering that Rodgers is #1 in career QB rating, it's clear that there aren't many QBs who have played at the same high level. Also #1 in yards/attempt in the Super Bowl era by a couple of notches, #1 in TD percentage in the Super Bowl era by a long way, #1 in career interception percentage by a long way.
Different rules, different eras. It isn't as clear as you think.
Rodgers is playing head and shoulders above everyone else, statistically, right now, so his claim for top billing is, at the very least, as good as anyone playing right now (including Manning and Brady). You might be able to make an argument that there are other QBs from the past who "have played at the same high level and done it longer," but that's a pretty extraordinary claim and you would have to come up with some evidence. For example, can you name anyone else in the Super Bowl era who was in the top 5 in the league in QB rating, yards per attempt, and TD% six years in a row? Montana and Elway never came close to that, and even Marino didn't manage it. That's relative to peers, so adjusts for era.
Here's some evidence... Total QBR rankings the last 5 years (most recent year first):Rodgers - 2, 5, 4, 1, 3

Manning - 3, 1, 1, dnp, 2

 
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Let's not forget last season when he faked being hurt against the Bears and came back in two months later to oust the Bears and steal the division title from them.
You mean when he had a fractured collarbone on his non throwing side, a 4-6 week injury, and they wouldn't let him play for 8 weeks?Rodgers was elite this year and 3 years ago. The two years in between he wasn't all that. He's got to win s few more playoff games before I even consider him in the GOAT category.
:lmao:

 
Tom Brady needs to be All-Pro a few more times before I consider him in the GOAT category.

Peyton Manning - 7 times: 1st team 7 times, never 2nd team
Johnny Unitas - 7 times: 1st team 5 times, 2nd team 2 times
Steve Young: 6 times: 1st team 3 times, 2nd team 3 times
Brett Favre - 6 times: 1st team 3 times, 2nd team 3 times
Joe Montana - 5 times: 1st team 3 times, 2nd team 2 times
Tom Brady - 3 times: 1st team 2 times, 2nd team 1 time

 
Let's not forget last season when he faked being hurt against the Bears and came back in two months later to oust the Bears and steal the division title from them.
You mean when he had a fractured collarbone on his non throwing side, a 4-6 week injury, and they wouldn't let him play for 8 weeks?Rodgers was elite this year and 3 years ago. The two years in between he wasn't all that. He's got to win s few more playoff games before I even consider him in the GOAT category.
:lmao:
Last year he was the 5th ranked QB (by Total QBR) and two years ago he was ranked 4th. That's not quite elite in my book, not when guys named Foles, Rivers and Ryan are ranked better.Sorry, but if you want to claim someone is playing the best QB of all-time, at least be in the top 3 last year or the year before.

 
Let's not forget last season when he faked being hurt against the Bears and came back in two months later to oust the Bears and steal the division title from them.
You mean when he had a fractured collarbone on his non throwing side, a 4-6 week injury, and they wouldn't let him play for 8 weeks?Rodgers was elite this year and 3 years ago. The two years in between he wasn't all that. He's got to win s few more playoff games before I even consider him in the GOAT category.
:lmao:
Last year he was the 5th ranked QB (by Total QBR) and two years ago he was ranked 4th. That's not quite elite in my book, not when guys named Foles, Rivers and Ryan are ranked better.Sorry, but if you want to claim someone is playing the best QB of all-time, at least be in the top 3 last year or the year before.
So I'm guessing you think QBR is the end all, be all for ranking QBs?

 
Total QBR ranking - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Quarterback_Rating

Total Quarterback Rating (abbreviated as Total QBR or simply QBR) is a proprietary statistic created by ESPN Inc. in 2011 to measure the performance of quarterbacks in American football. It was created to be a more meaningful alternative to the passer rating but has been met with criticism amongst fans and commentators alike.

...

According to ESPN, QBR was developed to measure the degree to which a quarterback contributed to scoring points for the team, and also to a win by the team. For example, completing a pass to earn a first down at the quarterback's own 20-yard-line with 30 seconds left in the game is unlikely to lead to any points for his team, but if they are already leading it increases the probability of winning, as it usually enables the leading team to run out the clock. This second criterion is quantified using a "win probability" function which ESPN developed by analyzing data for each play of NFL games over the previous decade.

....

ESPN claims QBR is a more meaningful alternative to the passer rating, which remains the official NFL measure of passing performance. The calculation of the NFL passer rating is much simpler than the QBR, as it depends only on aggregate statistics rather than an analysis of each play a quarterback is involved in. Passer rating is calculated using each quarterback's passing attempts, completions, yards, touchdowns and interceptions, and has a maximum value of 158.3 and minimum value of 0.
 
Let's not forget last season when he faked being hurt against the Bears and came back in two months later to oust the Bears and steal the division title from them.
You mean when he had a fractured collarbone on his non throwing side, a 4-6 week injury, and they wouldn't let him play for 8 weeks?Rodgers was elite this year and 3 years ago. The two years in between he wasn't all that. He's got to win s few more playoff games before I even consider him in the GOAT category.
:lmao:
Last year he was the 5th ranked QB (by Total QBR) and two years ago he was ranked 4th. That's not quite elite in my book, not when guys named Foles, Rivers and Ryan are ranked better.Sorry, but if you want to claim someone is playing the best QB of all-time, at least be in the top 3 last year or the year before.
So I'm guessing you think QBR is the end all, be all for ranking QBs?
What specifically about it do you not like?
 
Let's not forget last season when he faked being hurt against the Bears and came back in two months later to oust the Bears and steal the division title from them.
You mean when he had a fractured collarbone on his non throwing side, a 4-6 week injury, and they wouldn't let him play for 8 weeks?Rodgers was elite this year and 3 years ago. The two years in between he wasn't all that. He's got to win s few more playoff games before I even consider him in the GOAT category.
:lmao:
Last year he was the 5th ranked QB (by Total QBR) and two years ago he was ranked 4th. That's not quite elite in my book, not when guys named Foles, Rivers and Ryan are ranked better.Sorry, but if you want to claim someone is playing the best QB of all-time, at least be in the top 3 last year or the year before.
So I'm guessing you think QBR is the end all, be all for ranking QBs?
What specifically about it do you not like?
I don't know but if Russell Wilson is ranking 12, 12, 6, I feel like it's a flawed stat. I honestly don't know how you can watch Rodgers play and not think he's an elite QB. :shrug:

 
Let's not forget last season when he faked being hurt against the Bears and came back in two months later to oust the Bears and steal the division title from them.
You mean when he had a fractured collarbone on his non throwing side, a 4-6 week injury, and they wouldn't let him play for 8 weeks?Rodgers was elite this year and 3 years ago. The two years in between he wasn't all that. He's got to win s few more playoff games before I even consider him in the GOAT category.
:lmao:
Last year he was the 5th ranked QB (by Total QBR) and two years ago he was ranked 4th. That's not quite elite in my book, not when guys named Foles, Rivers and Ryan are ranked better.Sorry, but if you want to claim someone is playing the best QB of all-time, at least be in the top 3 last year or the year before.
So I'm guessing you think QBR is the end all, be all for ranking QBs?
What specifically about it do you not like?
I don't know but if Russell Wilson is ranking 12, 12, 6, I feel like it's a flawed stat. I honestly don't know how you can watch Rodgers play and not think he's an elite QB. :shrug:
I said he wasn't elite last year or the year before. He's a great QB, but how can you say he is playing the best QB of all time, when the most advanced metric out there for evaluating the effectiveness of a QB says he's not the best QB in any of the last 3 seasons. Someone asked for evidence and I provided it. {insert shrugging shoulder guy which I can't do on my phone}
 
I'm just looking at what my eyes tell me. I agree that we can't call him the GOAT just yet but he can make any throw. I think when he retires, he will be in the conversation.

 
I'm just looking at what my eyes tell me. I agree that we can't call him the GOAT just yet but he can make any throw. I think when he retires, he will be in the conversation.
He may be. But he's got a LONG way to go first. I mean really - the guy has a grand total of 5 playoff wins in his career. 5. That's 32nd all-time. Tom Brady has 19. To put that into perspective, Rodgers would have to run the table and win the Superbowl 5 times in a row to pass him - and that assumes Brady doesn't win one more game during that 5 year period. Rodgers hasn't played that well in the playoffs recently, either. In the last 3 years, he is 1-3 in the playoffs, with an average of 243 yards per game passing and 1.5 TD passes. And 3 out of those 4 games were at home.

 
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I said he wasn't elite last year or the year before. He's a great QB, but how can you say he is playing the best QB of all time, when the most advanced metric out there for evaluating the effectiveness of a QB says he's not the best QB in any of the last 3 seasons. Someone asked for evidence and I provided it. {insert shrugging shoulder guy which I can't do on my phone}
"Total QBR" isn't the most advanced metric for anything other than ESPN tooting its own horn. It has even less value than some of the Football Outsiders silliness, because not only does it output garbage, it's proprietary so you don't even know why.

 
I think a Rodgers claim for top billing is laughable as well... He is very good but there are many QBs who have played at the same high level and done it longer.
Considering that Rodgers is #1 in career QB rating, it's clear that there aren't many QBs who have played at the same high level. Also #1 in yards/attempt in the Super Bowl era by a couple of notches, #1 in TD percentage in the Super Bowl era by a long way, #1 in career interception percentage by a long way.
Different rules, different eras. It isn't as clear as you think.
Rodgers is playing head and shoulders above everyone else, statistically, right now, so his claim for top billing is, at the very least, as good as anyone playing right now (including Manning and Brady). You might be able to make an argument that there are other QBs from the past who "have played at the same high level and done it longer," but that's a pretty extraordinary claim and you would have to come up with some evidence. For example, can you name anyone else in the Super Bowl era who was in the top 5 in the league in QB rating, yards per attempt, and TD% six years in a row? Montana and Elway never came close to that, and even Marino didn't manage it. That's relative to peers, so adjusts for era.
I'm not trying to discredit Rodgers. He is in his prime and playing in a pass happy NFL right now Rodgers is very good - so are Manning, Brees, Brady, etc (all past their prime). Not only is it difficult to compare across eras, each player plays under a different offensive philosophy and with different talent around them. Someone has to be blessed to be in the right situation. Give a good QB all day to throw and he'll pick you apart. A few injuries to the line and suddenly he isn't the same player. Put a good QB on a team with a bad defense and the picks will come as they throw from behind...

One of the things that helped Rodgers was the time to mature behind Favre. In comparison, Peyton was thrown into the fire as a day one starter. Would Rodgers have fared differently than 26 TDs and 28 Picks on a below average Colt's team as a rookie? Who can say but I think everyone struggles under those circumstances

Injuries are another factor, especially when looking at cumulative career stats. Manning, Brees and Brady (all older) have suffered major injuries. I'll always be a Marino guy - and he didn't look quite the same after tearing his achilles. Rodgers has been a starter 7 years. Respectable, but still a tough compare to guys who have played much longer and with more opportunity to encounter adversity.

Rodgers throws very few interceptions. That is his strength and the thing that makes his metrics shine. Conversely, he takes too many sacks. Would he (and his team) be better off if he threw the ball away more? Maybe.

There have been so many good QBs over the years. Each played in a distinct situation. The nature of the position is such that they get the credit for winning and the blame for losing. If the team is well balanced, the QB is labeled a game manager. If the team throws all day, the QB is a stud. In the end, do you judge them purely off individual statistics? Is a one yard TD run less effective than a pass TD? Is an INT always the QB's fault? Do you judge by wins and losses? Come backs? Championships? Play calling? The ability to elevate a mediocre team to greatness? Eyeball test?

 
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There have been so many good QBs over the years. Each played in a distinct situation. The nature of the position is such that they get the credit for winning and the blame for losing. If the team is well balanced, the QB is labeled a game manager. If the team throws all day, the QB is a stud. In the end, do you judge them purely off individual statistics? Is a one yard TD run less effective than a pass TD? Is an INT always the QB's fault? Do you judge by wins and losses? Come backs? Championships? Play calling? The ability to elevate a mediocre team to greatness? Eyeball test?
I'm not making the claim of Rodgers as the best ever. There are reasonable arguments for and against. I was taking issue with your statement, "I think a Rodgers claim for top billing is laughable...there are many QBs who have played at the same high level and done it longer." Rodgers clearly has a legitimate claim for #1 ever, and there aren't "many" QBs who have played at the same high level statistically--there might be two (Young and Manning). And only Manning has done it longer.

Rodgers definitely benefitted from sitting behind Favre, but other than that, his situation hasn't been at all conducive to generating QB numbers. He plays in Green Bay for heaven's sake.

 
There have been so many good QBs over the years. Each played in a distinct situation. The nature of the position is such that they get the credit for winning and the blame for losing. If the team is well balanced, the QB is labeled a game manager. If the team throws all day, the QB is a stud. In the end, do you judge them purely off individual statistics? Is a one yard TD run less effective than a pass TD? Is an INT always the QB's fault? Do you judge by wins and losses? Come backs? Championships? Play calling? The ability to elevate a mediocre team to greatness? Eyeball test?
I'm not making the claim of Rodgers as the best ever. There are reasonable arguments for and against. I was taking issue with your statement, "I think a Rodgers claim for top billing is laughable...there are many QBs who have played at the same high level and done it longer." Rodgers clearly has a legitimate claim for #1 ever, and there aren't "many" QBs who have played at the same high level statistically--there might be two (Young and Manning). And only Manning has done it longer.

Rodgers definitely benefitted from sitting behind Favre, but other than that, his situation hasn't been at all conducive to generating QB numbers. He plays in Green Bay for heaven's sake.
That's where our opinions differ. Rodgers has played seven seasons on a very talented GB team (Driver, Nelson, Jennings, Jones, Cobb, etc). They also usually have a respectable defense, and seem to seldom play from behind (especially at home). Even with great numbers over that span, I think it is too soon to talk about best ever.

It gets cold in GB. As it does in a few cities but didn't Favre put up remarkable numbers? GB has had one of the most prolific offenses in the NFL for some time.

 
There have been so many good QBs over the years. Each played in a distinct situation. The nature of the position is such that they get the credit for winning and the blame for losing. If the team is well balanced, the QB is labeled a game manager. If the team throws all day, the QB is a stud. In the end, do you judge them purely off individual statistics? Is a one yard TD run less effective than a pass TD? Is an INT always the QB's fault? Do you judge by wins and losses? Come backs? Championships? Play calling? The ability to elevate a mediocre team to greatness? Eyeball test?
I'm not making the claim of Rodgers as the best ever. There are reasonable arguments for and against. I was taking issue with your statement, "I think a Rodgers claim for top billing is laughable...there are many QBs who have played at the same high level and done it longer." Rodgers clearly has a legitimate claim for #1 ever, and there aren't "many" QBs who have played at the same high level statistically--there might be two (Young and Manning). And only Manning has done it longer.

Rodgers definitely benefitted from sitting behind Favre, but other than that, his situation hasn't been at all conducive to generating QB numbers. He plays in Green Bay for heaven's sake.
That's where our opinions differ. Rodgers has played seven seasons on a very talented GB team (Driver, Nelson, Jennings, Jones, Cobb, etc). They also usually have a respectable defense, and seem to seldom play from behind (especially at home). Even with great numbers over that span, I think it is too soon to talk about best ever.

It gets cold in GB. As it does in a few cities but didn't Favre put up remarkable numbers? GB has had one of the most prolific offenses in the NFL for some time.
Favre and Rodgers are the main reason for the prolific offense. Did you see what the Packers did with Matt Flynn last year?

 
Rodgers throws very few interceptions. That is his strength and the thing that makes his metrics shine. Conversely, he takes too many sacks. Would he (and his team) be better off if he threw the ball away more? Maybe.
Maybe they would, but extending plays leads to more sacks and to more rushing yards.

Rodgers has positive yards (+95) when you take his rushing yards minus his sack yards lost. Peyton is at -142 and Brady at -77. Luck is at +122.

There's the aspect of how sacks affect individual drives and I have no idea how many drives were killed due to extra sacks he took versus how many drives he extending by running.

 
Taking a sack is not always a bad thing. Plenty of quarterbacks, when trying to avoid a sack, heave up bad throws that get picked off. Rodgers is smart enough sometimes to just take the sack and live to fight another down.

 
The Packers have scored at least 20 points in every playoff game led by Aaron Rodgers. His playoff numbers are outstanding.

His problem has been the defense he has played with. In his four playoff losses, his defense gave up 51, 45, 37 and 23 points. The Packer defense has been surrendering 27 points on average in the Aaron Rodgers era... As a result, the Packers are 5-4. With any kind of consistently good defense, he'd have a couple more rings.

Even this year, the Packer defense gave up 348 points and were mediocre at best.

 
The Packers have scored at least 20 points in every playoff game led by Aaron Rodgers. His playoff numbers are outstanding.

His problem has been the defense he has played with. In his four playoff losses, his defense gave up 51, 45, 37 and 23 points. The Packer defense has been surrendering 27 points on average in the Aaron Rodgers era... As a result, the Packers are 5-4. With any kind of consistently good defense, he'd have a couple more rings.

Even this year, the Packer defense gave up 348 points and were mediocre at best.
agree with this

 
There have been so many good QBs over the years. Each played in a distinct situation. The nature of the position is such that they get the credit for winning and the blame for losing. If the team is well balanced, the QB is labeled a game manager. If the team throws all day, the QB is a stud. In the end, do you judge them purely off individual statistics? Is a one yard TD run less effective than a pass TD? Is an INT always the QB's fault? Do you judge by wins and losses? Come backs? Championships? Play calling? The ability to elevate a mediocre team to greatness? Eyeball test?
I'm not making the claim of Rodgers as the best ever. There are reasonable arguments for and against. I was taking issue with your statement, "I think a Rodgers claim for top billing is laughable...there are many QBs who have played at the same high level and done it longer." Rodgers clearly has a legitimate claim for #1 ever, and there aren't "many" QBs who have played at the same high level statistically--there might be two (Young and Manning). And only Manning has done it longer.

Rodgers definitely benefitted from sitting behind Favre, but other than that, his situation hasn't been at all conducive to generating QB numbers. He plays in Green Bay for heaven's sake.
That's where our opinions differ. Rodgers has played seven seasons on a very talented GB team (Driver, Nelson, Jennings, Jones, Cobb, etc). They also usually have a respectable defense, and seem to seldom play from behind (especially at home). Even with great numbers over that span, I think it is too soon to talk about best ever.

It gets cold in GB. As it does in a few cities but didn't Favre put up remarkable numbers? GB has had one of the most prolific offenses in the NFL for some time.
Jones? James Jones? Part of your argument for why Rodgers shouldn't be considered in the conversation for GOAT is that his play was elevated by playing with James Jones? Honestly, none of those guys would be that highly ranked among WRs all time, IMO. Maybe Jordy will get there, but a lot of his success has to do with Rodgers. Rodgers played just 2 years where Driver was really a factor.

 
Rotoworld:

Aaron Rodgers completed 23-of-34 throws for 304 yards and three touchdowns in the Packers' Divisional Round win over the Cowboys.

Rodgers capped Green Bay's first drive with a four-yard dart to Andrew Quarless in the back of the end zone. The Packers' offense took a step back from there as Rodgers' mobility was clearly compromised by his injured calf, and also adversely affected his passing. He repeatedly missed his intended targets high. Rodgers settled down in the second half, carving up Dallas' defense on short throws. He hit Davante Adams for a 46-yard catch-and-run touchdown and rookie TE Richard Rodgers on an absolute bullet between several defenders for a 13-yard score. Rodgers still hasn't thrown an interception in a home game since December 2 of 2012. The Packers will head to Seattle for the NFC Championship Game next week.

Jan 11 - 4:11 PM
 
It's sad that one of the gutsiest performances you'll ever see by a QB in a playoff game is getting overshadowed by that overturned Dez Bryant call.
True...and people will forget that it happened with about 4:20 left...people will act as if it would have ended TY he game.

 
General Tso said:
the most advanced metric out there for evaluating the effectiveness of a QB
This is the issue. QBR is flawed. Traditional passer rating is better, and I think there are likely quite a few advanced metrics. For example, ANY/A is a better advanced metric for evaluating the effectiveness of a QB. Rodgers is #1 all time in career ANY/A.
Regardless, they're all better than playoff W/L which tells us that guys like Eli, Flacco, and Sanchez are among the all-time greats. Sadly, that's the metric that many people choose to use.

 
It's sad that one of the gutsiest performances you'll ever see by a QB in a playoff game is getting overshadowed by that overturned Dez Bryant call.
You're 100% correct Ghost. It wasn't lost on me though. I'll remember that performance for a LONG time. He was outstanding, and he was clearly bothered by the ankle. Awesome game, with some beautiful, deadly accurate throws.

 
It's sad that one of the gutsiest performances you'll ever see by a QB in a playoff game is getting overshadowed by that overturned Dez Bryant call.
You're 100% correct Ghost. It wasn't lost on me though. I'll remember that performance for a LONG time. He was outstanding, and he was clearly bothered by the ankle. Awesome game, with some beautiful, deadly accurate throws.
I wish they had called it a catch. If Dallas scores there ... still about 4 minutes left in the game, and the packers would be down 1 or 3 (depending on the 2-point try).

The Packers never punted in the 2nd half. The way Rodgers was dominating the DAL defense in the 2nd half - he was going to get at least a field goal, if not an outright touchdown in the last 4 minutes. The Packers would have won anyway.

 
Rotoworld:

Aaron Rodgers (calf) remained limited on Thursday.

Rodgers suited up for the "second part" of practice. "He's getting ready to play," were the words of coach Mike McCarthy. Rodgers' mobility is going to remain limited against the Seahawks, but barring a setback, he'll be out there for every down.

Source: Packers on Twitter
Jan 15 - 2:45 PM
 

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