QB Jameis Winston, NYG (3 Viewers)

[JohnnyU]

HOGE: WINSTON TOO SLOW TO GO NO. 1

Merril Hoge, comparing Jameis Winston to Byron Leftwich: "He is a slow, lumbering athlete. That slow-twitch, slow-footed lumbering skill will never be changed. You’re not going to coach him out of it. He’s not going to be a quick-twitch guy one day. That means teams will attack that."

Is Big Ben considered "quick twitch"?

The problem with Leftwich was that in addition to playing with cement shoes, he had this horrible long wind up throwing motion. Does Winston have similar issues?

 

[cstu]

Ryan Leaf/Peyton Manning pre-draft article:

Spoiler

Day & Night
By Stephen Rodrick
ESPN The Magazine
One is a little bit country. The other, a little bit rock 'n' roll. Peyton Manning loves crooning along with C&W star Kenny Chesney. You might find Ryan Leaf backstage at a Matchbox 20 concert begging for the mike. Manning studies for his masters. Ryan dropped out. Son of Archie, Peyton exudes football royalty. Down in the Big Easy, Manning the Younger is crown prince. Leaf? His dad sells insurance. To some in Montana, Ryan's the prince of darkness.

Heroes and villains. Black hats and white hats. Good and evil. That's the American way. Pick a side. This year's NFL Draft provides another tantalizing choice to divide us. You've got the No. 1 pick: Who's it going to be? Peyton Manning, everybody's All-American with perfect genes? Or Ryan Leaf, Favre-like gunslinger, bully enough to flick away 300-pound linemen?

To answer that question, I crisscrossed the nation. Pullman to Knoxville. Eleven bags of peanuts later, I've reached my conclusion. The envelope please ...

Nice try. Keep reading.

***

Ryan Leaf looks like Chuck Wepner. Or at least his stomach does.

Clad in black trunks, dripping white towel and a gold No. 16 medallion, Leaf strides into the Pullman, Wash., Holiday Inn Express lobby. A 6'5" sprinkler, he rains all over the carpet. No one minds. Here in Pullman, possibly the inspiration for the Neil Young album Everyone Knows This Is Nowhere, Leaf could wear Underoos into the lobby and everyone would fawn. Take a team to its first Rose Bowl in 66 years and that happens.

"Hey, man, mind if we do the interview in the Jacuzzi?"

Nope. Good way to size up the merchandise. As Leaf settles into the bubbles, his belly metamorphoses into a polka accordion. Like the Cascades, it has slopes and crevices. Maybe Ryan went to McDonald's and said Supersize me. "I didn't work out for January and February," he says, giving a caught-in-the-cookie-jar grin. "I was going around on the banquet circuit, up to two in the morning schmoozing, eating bad. Guys like me can put on 10-15 pounds in a week. I was 261, now I'm down to 242. Now I've got a trainer."

No, he's not John Goodman. But don't forget, Wepner and his jelly belly went 15 rounds with Ali. Besides, Leaf is a big, fat breath of fresh air in this era of hyper-protected jocks. He's just a good old boy meaning no harm.

As a kid in Great Falls, Montana, Leaf would don his Steelers jersey, set the microwave timer and lead his own two-minute drill. Mouthpiece included. The drive always ended in a touchdown. "I'd dive over the couch, wreck lamps," he remembers. "I thought I was Terry Bradshaw. I'd sure like to meet him some day." Reality wasn't quite as kind. At Charles M. Russell High, Leaf's cockiness caused problems, particularly on the basketball court. If he wasn't making 360-degree dunks -- he has a 35-inch vertical -- Leaf was thundering down the court imitating a 747 after a basket. Once he gave a crowd the finger.

On the football field, Leaf led Russell to a state championship his junior year. But no all-state, no retired jersey. Part of it involved following a Montana legend. Before Leaf, Dave Dickenson, an honor student, led the school to two state championships. Dickenson then piloted Montana to a 1995 1-AA title. Leaf was Johnny Depp replacing Michael Landon. Bad blood lingers. When the Great Falls Tribune did a Heisman poll last year, some citizens wrote in trashing Leaf's attitude.

"They retired my jersey here at Washington State about two weeks ago," Leaf says, turning the whirlpool jets on full blast. "It brought me to tears, something I hadn't done since seventh grade. Then I was back home at Christmastime, and now they want to retire my jersey. It's like, 'You're kidding me.' I never want my jersey hanging up there." Leaf no longer goes to Great Falls. Instead, he drives his beat-up Isuzu Rodeo to his grandparents' cabin 50 miles outside of town. "When people ask where I'm from, I tell them Washington, because that's where I feel the most comforted by the people," Leaf says. He breaks into a goofy grin. "I tell people I'm grounded and humble because I'm from the state of Montana, and they made me that way."

Ironically, Leaf's coach, Mike Price, says the same cockiness that turned off Great Falls made Leaf a "messiah" in Pullman. Price first saw Leaf's swagger when he quarterbacked the scout team in 1994, going nose-to-nose with the nation's No. 1 defense. The next year, the legend was born against archrival Washington in Seattle. "We send the quarterbacks out a little early so they don't get psyched out by the crowd," Price recalls. "All 75,000 start booing. Ryan, a freshman, marches out to the 50-yard line and starts waving his arms, 'C'mon, let's go, I'm here. Hey, Cougars, I'm leading you guys to the promised land. Screw you, guys. Boo me, I love it.' " Leaf lost the game, but threw for 291 yards.

He says his brashness is a media concoction. "I'm actually pretty reserved," Leaf argues, his waterlogged skin puckering. "I just like to have fun out there. I'm not the type of guy who goes to members of my team or the other team and says, 'Hey, I'm awesome,' because I can improve in so many ways."

Maybe. But he did yell, "Who's the only quarterback to beat USC?" after the Cougars won in the L.A. Coliseum for the first time in 40 years. He also whizzed a football, à la Albert Belle, within inches of a Spokane sportswriter's head after the journalist criticized a teammate. "I gave him a little buzz," says Leaf nonchalantly. "If I wanted to hit him, I would have hit him."

All these episodes were overlooked because Leaf backed up his braggadocio. Staying in Pullman last summer, Leaf worked on his long ball endlessly. Opposing coaches were amazed by the improvement. Suddenly, Leaf had the ability to float a ball downfield 60 yards with touch. Come January, the Cougars were 10-1 and one second away from possibly dousing Michigan's national title hopes.

Moving to the pros, Leaf's frankness follows. He found his first paid autograph session a little gross. Ask him about film watching, and he answers curtly: "I watch film as much as Peyton does, I just don't tell everyone about it." At the February Combine, a misunderstanding caused Leaf to miss a meeting with Colts head coach Jim Mora. When he was supposed to be talking with Mora, Leaf was getting an MRI. The incident was reported as Leaf blowing off the Colts. "I really felt put off by Coach Mora," says Leaf. "Instead of him talking to me, he leaked it to the media and made me look like an irresponsible brat."

The subject turns to Draft Day. With all the heat on him and Manning, Leaf relishes the difference between their backgrounds. "I come from Great Falls, Montana," he says with a smile. "My father isn't an NFL quarterback. He sells insurance. Why am I supposed to be able to do this thing?"

The following morning, at a windy Martin Stadium, Leaf throws a scripted 64 balls before a dozen drooling scouts. In shorts and T-shirt, gut discreetly hidden, Leaf drops in bombs at 55 yards with tender loving touch. Chargers quarterbacks coach June Jones smiles like a kid peeking at his Christmas gift. After the workout, a brave reporter asks about the Colts not being there. Leaf's answer is concise.

"Go, Chargers."

So what's Ryan's hope? Brett Favre or Billy Joe Hobert?

One curmudgeon offensive coordinator thinks Leaf is trouble. "His attitude is a problem," says our coach. "His teammates aren't going to put up with it. The press isn't going to put up with it. He can either develop into a Favre-type or fall on his face. No way I'm putting a franchise in his hands."

Steelers coordinator Ray Sherman sees unrefined greatness.

"Leaf has a great upside," Sherman says. "I'm impressed most by his composure in the pocket. Someone will hit him in the mouth and he still focuses downfield. You can't teach that."

One NFL scout dismisses concerns about Leaf's swaggering image. He does it succinctly. "You know what kind of quarterback wins the most games? The one with the biggest cojones. Leaf's got a giant pair. He'll do fine."

So, Ryan Leaf can throw the ball and he has balls. What more could you want?

***

It's March 29 at O'Charley's Restaurant near the University of Tennessee campus. Volunteer faithful swig Budweiser as their Lady Vols romp to a third-straight hoops championship. Afterward, a singer dedicates "No Woman, No Cry" to Louisiana Tech. Inevitably, "Rocky Top" is hollered. Life is sweet. Almost. A sloshed, orange-capped female student slurs: "This is cool, but they still screwed Peyton."

Down South, where men still dress up and try to win the Civil War, grudges die hard. However, Peyton Manning doesn't look back. "The track record of quarterbacks who have won the Heisman isn't so good anyway," Manning says with a freckly smile, his face tan from a week of golf in Vegas. Sitting in the film room of the Vols football complex, he looks trim. "It's all behind me now."

The polite answer. What else? At the age of 22, the possibility of Peyton Manning saying anything controversial is as remote as Al Gore saying anything funny. From perfect grammar to the perfect pass, Peyton Manning is Archie's boy. All the way down to the knock-kneed walk. There's no dodging it. Not that Peyton ever would. It's as if the two quarterbacks have merged into a Southern perpetuity, a gridiron version of the Kennedys. One has gone, but the son has picked up the ball, and he's throwing deep.

The story is familiar as "Dixie." Young Peytie watches Dad get beat senseless, but with honor, as a member of the Saints, Oilers and Vikings. Shucks, he even dons an Aints bag as a kid. All grown up, Peyton turns down Dad's alma mater, Ole Miss, and chooses Tennessee. Stardom follows. Three years later, Peyton turns down Bill Parcells for another year at UT. He's the great American hero, the symbol of all that is right and good. He loses the Heisman with ... honor.

Blah, blah, blah. The question is what, if anything, this gridiron legacy is going to do for him when Bruce Smith is jumping on his ###. The answer: plenty.

"Peyton has always been picking quarterbacks' brains," says Cooper Manning, his older brother. "Once, Dad went to one of those old quarterback challenges out in Hawaii when we were kids. Peyton met Len Dawson and just wouldn't let him escape. For two hours, he kept asking questions."

"Dad taught me you have to be a student of the game," Peyton says, gripping an NFL football. "I try to get one thing you can put in your mental notepad."

Manning has answered these questions a hundred times before. His automatic pilot responses pleasantly waft by like supermarket Muzak. Just like Leaf, he has been on the grin-and-greet circuit (Unlike Ryan, road workouts have kept him near his playing weight). It's not until the lights go off that he becomes animated. Always a film junkie -- Dad again -- Peyton has been screening NFL tapes, getting a head start. He watches like a detective reviewing the video of a bank holdup. Play. Rewind. Play. Rewind. Today's game: Cowboys-Panthers.

"Watch Aikman," he advises, pausing the tape. "Watch how he carries out the fake. He's not lazy. By doing something extra, if he holds one guy ... Look, see 57? He hesitates. One second, that fake was worth three to four yards."

Manning's practically out of his chair. "See the corner? Watch the safety behind him. See how he's cheating up here? It means he's covering for the corner who's blitzing. You figure out what one guy is doing by watching the other."

Manning runs the tape. His play-by-play voice speeds his N'awlins drawl from 33 to 45. "Okay. Here's a little blitz, everyone's coming, Troy's doing a good job picking it up, somebody's open." Sure enough. Aikman needles the ball to Michael Irvin. The All-Pro drops it.

"Damn."

Peyton Manning feels the pains of every quarterback.

"All that speed makes it feel like an NBA court compared to college," he says with wide-eyed wonder. It's that gee-golly image that has some scouts wondering if Peyton might just be too polite. Will he get in the face of a 33-year-old lineman who misses a block?

"Sure, I'll do that," he says, trying to look stern. "I just try to do it when the camera is not on me."

Pop has already quit his job as Saints radio commentator so he can follow Peyton around. According to Cooper, half-joking, Archie will have hotels and itineraries planned out a week after the draft. He's already prepared his son for the deluge of media and fans.

"Dad taught me it's part of the job," Peyton says, reaching into his pocket. "That's why you keep one of these with you at all times." He pulls out a black magic marker. He's ready to sign. "Dad says it's a part of the job, so you might as well smile and do it."

Isn't that sweet?

Perhaps because of his talent, perhaps because of his dad, few coaches will criticize Peyton. Back to our curmudgeon coordinator.

"You've got one guy groomed, almost bred to be a QB," he says. "The other is raw and immature. You got to take Manning. A lightbulb goes on when a quarterback finally grasps the offense. That lightbulb is going on a lot quicker for Peyton." The transition, as Archie found out, from college god to pro peon isn't always pleasant. But the son is ready for the hard times. "I'm going to have to work hard, study hard and try to earn a place. That's all I can do."

Cornier than a corn dog. Dad would be proud.

***

So, 10,000 miles later, it's time to make a choice. It's easy, right? Manning's better prepared, better mannered. Leaf can't even keep himself in shape. Exiled from his hometown. He runs off at the mouth. Not worth the $30 million risk. Right?

Sorry, Archie, I'm taking Ryan. Maybe it was watching Leaf against Arizona as he implored the coaching staff, "Call my number, I'm hot, I'm hot." Or Ryan running by Coach Price during his first Washington game after a completion into double coverage and chuckling, "Didn't think I'd get the ball in there." He possesses an "I don't give a crap" attitude that has proven essential to Super Bowl quarterbacks from Stabler to McMahon to Favre. Come 2018, Ryan Leaf, not Manning, will be strutting up to a podium in Canton.

Correct that. Bellying up.

This article appears in the April 20, 1998 issue of ESPN The Magazine.

Spoiler

So, 10,000 miles later, it's time to make a choice. It's easy, right? Manning's better prepared, better mannered. Leaf can't even keep himself in shape. Exiled from his hometown. He runs off at the mouth. Not worth the $30 million risk. Right?

Sorry, Archie, I'm taking Ryan. Maybe it was watching Leaf against Arizona as he implored the coaching staff, "Call my number, I'm hot, I'm hot." Or Ryan running by Coach Price during his first Washington game after a completion into double coverage and chuckling, "Didn't think I'd get the ball in there." He possesses an "I don't give a crap" attitude that has proven essential to Super Bowl quarterbacks from Stabler to McMahon to Favre. Come 2018, Ryan Leaf, not Manning, will be strutting up to a podium in Canton.

Spoiler

Do you need straws? You seem to be grasping for some...

Similarities are downright eerie, right down to not being liked in his high school hometown.

Winston tours the hangouts of his youth, mostly avoiding Hueytown. His parents' home is in Hueytown, but he does not say that's where he is from. He was the nation's top-rated quarterback there, was among the country's best baseball players and was an honor student. But his connection to this hillside municipality (population 16,000) is strained.

Last fall a local news story was headlined: Jameis Winston has 'embarrassed' Hueytown, residents say.

Last summer, for Winston's appreciation day, the concrete stands at Hueytown were half full.

 

[Freelove]

HOGE: WINSTON TOO SLOW TO GO NO. 1

Merril Hoge, comparing Jameis Winston to Byron Leftwich: "He is a slow, lumbering athlete. That slow-twitch, slow-footed lumbering skill will never be changed. You’re not going to coach him out of it. He’s not going to be a quick-twitch guy one day. That means teams will attack that."

Is Big Ben considered "quick twitch"?

Big Ben is considered slow and lumbering, but by a happy coincidence, one of the hardest human beings on the planet to tackle.

There are a number of ways Ben is an anomaly, and pointing to him for validation of anything seems like a bad plan. He's the guy you point to when you want to suggest something can work out, despite the legions of failures that embody almost everything else he brings to the table -- slow, lumbering, sort of dim, and an off-field nightmare.

I'm certainly not arguing that it's an impossibility that Winston works out as an NFL QB, just that he's such a poor wager that risking the first pick on him is foolish.

 

[JohnnyU]

HOGE: WINSTON TOO SLOW TO GO NO. 1

Merril Hoge, comparing Jameis Winston to Byron Leftwich: "He is a slow, lumbering athlete. That slow-twitch, slow-footed lumbering skill will never be changed. You’re not going to coach him out of it. He’s not going to be a quick-twitch guy one day. That means teams will attack that."

Is Big Ben considered "quick twitch"?

Big Ben is considered slow and lumbering, but by a happy coincidence, one of the hardest human beings on the planet to tackle.

There are a number of ways Ben is an anomaly, and pointing to him for validation of anything seems like a bad plan. He's the guy you point to when you want to suggest something can work out, despite the legions of failures that embody almost everything else he brings to the table -- slow, lumbering, sort of dim, and an off-field nightmare.

I'm certainly not arguing that it's an impossibility that Winston works out as an NFL QB, just that he's such a poor wager that risking the first pick on him is foolish.

One correction for you, Ben hasn't been an off the field nightmare ever since he got married.

 

[DocHolliday]

HOGE: WINSTON TOO SLOW TO GO NO. 1

Merril Hoge, comparing Jameis Winston to Byron Leftwich: "He is a slow, lumbering athlete. That slow-twitch, slow-footed lumbering skill will never be changed. You’re not going to coach him out of it. He’s not going to be a quick-twitch guy one day. That means teams will attack that."

Is Big Ben considered "quick twitch"?

Big Ben is considered slow and lumbering, but by a happy coincidence, one of the hardest human beings on the planet to tackle.

There are a number of ways Ben is an anomaly, and pointing to him for validation of anything seems like a bad plan. He's the guy you point to when you want to suggest something can work out, despite the legions of failures that embody almost everything else he brings to the table -- slow, lumbering, sort of dim, and an off-field nightmare.

I'm certainly not arguing that it's an impossibility that Winston works out as an NFL QB, just that he's such a poor wager that risking the first pick on him is foolish.

One correction for you, Ben hasn't been an off the field nightmare ever since he got married.

Good to see that his wife will not let him go out to bars and rape co-eds.

 

[lod01]

This guy should not be compared to a 2 time SB winner just because he's the same size. Let's compare him to someone of the same size and skill level.

Winston = combo of Leaf & Leftwich.

 

[jurb26]

HOGE: WINSTON TOO SLOW TO GO NO. 1

Merril Hoge, comparing Jameis Winston to Byron Leftwich: "He is a slow, lumbering athlete. That slow-twitch, slow-footed lumbering skill will never be changed. You’re not going to coach him out of it. He’s not going to be a quick-twitch guy one day. That means teams will attack that."

Is Big Ben considered "quick twitch"?

The problem with Leftwich was that in addition to playing with cement shoes, he had this horrible long wind up throwing motion. Does Winston have similar issues?

No. Winston has a slightly elongated throwing motion due to playing baseball but it's not nearly as bad as Lefty was. He has worked to improve that this offseason now that he's no longer playing baseball and it does look noticably better.

 

[Spin]

Funny to read that Manning/Leaf article in hindsight.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

HOGE: WINSTON TOO SLOW TO GO NO. 1

Merril Hoge, comparing Jameis Winston to Byron Leftwich: "He is a slow, lumbering athlete. That slow-twitch, slow-footed lumbering skill will never be changed. You’re not going to coach him out of it. He’s not going to be a quick-twitch guy one day. That means teams will attack that."

Is Big Ben considered "quick twitch"?

Big Ben is considered slow and lumbering, but by a happy coincidence, one of the hardest human beings on the planet to tackle.

There are a number of ways Ben is an anomaly, and pointing to him for validation of anything seems like a bad plan. He's the guy you point to when you want to suggest something can work out, despite the legions of failures that embody almost everything else he brings to the table -- slow, lumbering, sort of dim, and an off-field nightmare.

I'm certainly not arguing that it's an impossibility that Winston works out as an NFL QB, just that he's such a poor wager that risking the first pick on him is foolish.

One correction for you, Ben hasn't been an off the field nightmare ever since he got married.

Good to see that his wife will not let him go out to bars and rape co-eds.

women. amirite?

 

[MAC_32]

HOGE: WINSTON TOO SLOW TO GO NO. 1

Merril Hoge, comparing Jameis Winston to Byron Leftwich: "He is a slow, lumbering athlete. That slow-twitch, slow-footed lumbering skill will never be changed. You’re not going to coach him out of it. He’s not going to be a quick-twitch guy one day. That means teams will attack that."

Is Big Ben considered "quick twitch"?

The problem with Leftwich was that in addition to playing with cement shoes, he had this horrible long wind up throwing motion. Does Winston have similar issues?

It's not as bad, but it's there.

 

[gump]

This guy should not be compared to a 2 time SB winner just because he's the same size.

Agree...good thing there are also several other shared traits.

 

[cstu]

I think Mariota was the pick all along:

- Lovie is good personal friends with Tony Dungy and Herm Edwards

- Tony Dungy compared Mariota to Aaron Rodgers and was at a church event with him. Dungy's son played at Oregon with Mariota.

- Herm Edwards said "If he's your Andrew Luck, go get Mariota!"

Edwards is still sticking to the script that the Bucs are taking Winston though.

 

[Faust]

Jameis Winston is on the clock

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Appearing on ESPN Radio Tuesday morning, Adam Schefter said if the Bucs are picking today they would take Florida State QB Jameis Winston.
Schefter allowed that things can still change with more than two weeks until the draft. But for now, he was adamant in shooting down various reports and rumors that Marcus Mariota is moving ahead of Winston on Tampa's board. Our draft analyst Josh Norris has Mariota ahead of Winston on his Big Board, accessible at the link below.

Related: Buccaneers

Source: Josh Norris' Big Board
Apr 14 - 12:23 PM

 

[Capella]

Multiple league sources told Yahoo Sports that Winston scored a 27 out of 50 on the league's general aptitude test that is administered at the annual NFL scouting combine prior to the draft. That's a respectable score for quarterbacks, and just one point shy of the 28 Manning scored prior to the 1998 draft. It also stacks up favorably with several recent Super Bowl winners, including the New Orleans Saints' Drew Brees (28), the Seattle Seahawks' Russell Wilson (28), the Baltimore Ravens' Joe Flacco (27) and the Pittsburgh Steelers' Ben Roethlisberger (25).

"He's dumb"

 

[Capella]

Winston's score falling into line with other accomplished NFL starters shouldn't be a surprise. He received academic All-ACC honors in 2013 and 2014 at Florida State and was also accepted into Stanford during his recruiting process. Winston ultimately chose Florida State over the Cardinal.

I love this thread

 

[Capella]

Have no idea what the work ethic thing is about. Everybody has said for 3 years he was in the film room a legendary amount of time.

You people are just making #### up.

I don't buy it. He makes too many mistakes for someone who spent a legendary amount of time in the film room.

Also his weight - look at

 

[cstu]

Multiple league sources told Yahoo Sports that Winston scored a 27 out of 50 on the league's general aptitude test that is administered at the annual NFL scouting combine prior to the draft. That's a respectable score for quarterbacks, and just one point shy of the 28 Manning scored prior to the 1998 draft. It also stacks up favorably with several recent Super Bowl winners, including the New Orleans Saints' Drew Brees (28), the Seattle Seahawks' Russell Wilson (28), the Baltimore Ravens' Joe Flacco (27) and the Pittsburgh Steelers' Ben Roethlisberger (25).

"He's dumb"

I've said he's smart...sociopaths usually are.

By the way, care to guess Ryan Leaf's score?

Spoiler

27

http://www.nflstatanalysis.net/2011/03/qb-wonderlic-scores.html

 

[rdrouyn]

Wow sociopath? Dont we want to confirm first if he actually raped anyone before giving that label?

Immature yes, poor self-control for sure. just in line with most coddled athletes at that age.

 

[cstu]

Wow sociopath? Dont we want to confirm first if he actually raped anyone before giving that label?

Immature yes, poor self-control for sure. just in line with most coddled athletes at that age.

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/antisocial-personality-disorder-symptoms/

Individuals with Antisocial Personality Disorder frequently lack empathy and tend to be callous, cynical, and contemptuous of the feelings, rights, and sufferings of others.

They may have an inflated and arrogant self-appraisal (e.g., feel that ordinary work is beneath them or lack a realistic concern about their current problems or their future) and may be excessively opinionated, self-assured, or cocky.

They may display a glib, superficial charm and can be quite voluble and verbally facile (e.g., using technical terms or jargon that might impress someone who is unfamiliar with the topic).

Lack of empathy, inflated self-appraisal, and superficial charm are features that have been commonly included in traditional conceptions of psychopathy and may be particularly distinguishing of Antisocial Personality Disorder in prison or forensic settings where criminal, delinquent, or aggressive acts are likely to be nonspecific.

These individuals may also be irresponsible and exploitative in their sexual relationships.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

that sounds like half this board

 

[Grahamburn]

Winston attended his pre-draft visit with the Titans wearing an Alstott Family Foundation polo.

 

[Capella]

Winston attended his pre-draft visit with the Titans wearing an Alstott Family Foundation polo.

That was so good. I liked the picture of him in the crab hat from the other day as well.

 

[pantherclub]

HOGE: WINSTON TOO SLOW TO GO NO. 1

Merril Hoge, comparing Jameis Winston to Byron Leftwich: "He is a slow, lumbering athlete. That slow-twitch, slow-footed lumbering skill will never be changed. You’re not going to coach him out of it. He’s not going to be a quick-twitch guy one day. That means teams will attack that."

Is Big Ben considered "quick twitch"?

The problem with Leftwich was that in addition to playing with cement shoes, he had this horrible long wind up throwing motion. Does Winston have similar issues?

not even close

 

[gump]

Wow sociopath? Dont we want to confirm first if he actually raped anyone before giving that label?

Immature yes, poor self-control for sure. just in line with most coddled athletes at that age.

Jameis is black and from Alabama. Thats enough for the guys in this thread to make decisions based on the other info available.

 

[cstu]

Wow sociopath? Dont we want to confirm first if he actually raped anyone before giving that label?

Immature yes, poor self-control for sure. just in line with most coddled athletes at that age.

Jameis is black and from Alabama. Thats enough for the guys in this thread to make decisions based on the other info available.

that you're back to the racism angle. Just can't accept that there are serious red flags with Winston.

I had Bridgewater ahead of all the white guys last year.

 

[gump]

Wow sociopath? Dont we want to confirm first if he actually raped anyone before giving that label?

Immature yes, poor self-control for sure. just in line with most coddled athletes at that age.

Jameis is black and from Alabama. Thats enough for the guys in this thread to make decisions based on the other info available.

that you're back to the racism angle. Just can't accept that there are serious red flags with Winston.

I had Bridgewater ahead of all the white guys last year.

I'm just taking bits of info and running with it...while making less of a stretch than you and your cohorts are.

 

[dhockster]

Wow sociopath? Dont we want to confirm first if he actually raped anyone before giving that label?

Immature yes, poor self-control for sure. just in line with most coddled athletes at that age.

Jameis is black and from Alabama. Thats enough for the guys in this thread to make decisions based on the other info available.

that you're back to the racism angle. Just can't accept that there are serious red flags with Winston.

I had Bridgewater ahead of all the white guys last year.

I'm just taking bits of info and running with it...while making less of a stretch than you and your cohorts are.

They are criticizing Jameis.

Jameis is black and from Alabama.

Therefore, they must be criticizing Jameis because he is black and from Alabama.

No, not too much of a stretch there.

 

[mr roboto]

He's cocky and has a questionable personal history. That's not a race thing. I disliked Manziel's prospects for similar reasons (but Winston is a far better pro prospect from a physical standpoint).

 

[Capella]

CSTU can't stay out of the Mariota thread for 5 seconds, but now if he goes #1 it's a huge warning sign for Winston?

So...you're saying Winston is clearly the better player?

Over 160 post, approaching news-bot Faust as the only competition for most in the thread.Amazingly, he continues to find ways to look less and less credible.

Y-yet it's looking like I'm right.

Lol

@Sportsbook_com: Within minutes of tweeting out the line we immediatley took heavy action on Winston at -400.....now -600 https://t.co/XKUt4YHTyV

 

[cstu]

Cosell thinks Mettenberger is better than Winston.

 

[cstu]

CSTU can't stay out of the Mariota thread for 5 seconds, but now if he goes #1 it's a huge warning sign for Winston?

So...you're saying Winston is clearly the better player?

Over 160 post, approaching news-bot Faust as the only competition for most in the thread.Amazingly, he continues to find ways to look less and less credible.

Y-yet it's looking like I'm right.

Lol

@Sportsbook_com: Within minutes of tweeting out the line we immediatley took heavy action on Winston at -400.....now -600 https://t.co/XKUt4YHTyV

The betting is based on public perception, no one really knows what the people in charge of the decision are really thinking right now.

If the Bucs pick Winston I'll be happy and cheering right along side you...not for the same reasons of course.

 

[jurb26]

CSTU can't stay out of the Mariota thread for 5 seconds, but now if he goes #1 it's a huge warning sign for Winston?

So...you're saying Winston is clearly the better player?

Over 160 post, approaching news-bot Faust as the only competition for most in the thread.Amazingly, he continues to find ways to look less and less credible.

Y-yet it's looking like I'm right.

Lol

@Sportsbook_com: Within minutes of tweeting out the line we immediatley took heavy action on Winston at -400.....now -600 https://t.co/XKUt4YHTyV

The betting is based on public perception, no one really knows what the people in charge of the decision are really thinking right now.

If the Bucs pick Winston I'll be happy and cheering right along side you...not for the same reasons of course.

Nobody know but you've already proclaimed victory? Nice shtick.

 

[cstu]

Nobody know but you've already proclaimed victory?

Nice shtick.

I wrote that after Jaworski's quote, which has since been changed. I believe he got some information from the Bucs he wasn't supposed to release and had to back off of his comments.

Appearing on ESPN’s SportsCenter, Jaworski was asked to elaborate.

“All along we’ve been hearing Jameis Winston to the Bucs at No. 1 overall,” anchor Stan Verrett said to Jaworski. “Now you’re hearing Marcus Mariota, what’s going on?”

This is the point where Jaworski would have added to his prior statement, saying that the Buccaneers are privately telling people that they are taking Mariota, or that the Bucs have launched contract talks with Mariota’s agent. It was Jaworski’s chance to offer something tangible that would dovetail with his proclamation that Mariota will be the pick. But that’s not what Jaworski said.

“I am right now of the belief that Marcus Mariota is the best QB in this draft,” Jaworski explained. “I’m beginning to see a more clear vision of Marcus Mariota as the No. 1 pick in this draft. Right now, this is a process. It takes time. And it’s going to go right up to the last second I believe for the Buccaneers to decide who’s going to be their quarterback of the future, and who they take at No. 1.”

Verrett threw Jaws a bit of a lifeline aimed at harmonizing two concepts that inherently conflict: “But you believe at this point, when the process is done, it’ll be Mariota?”

“Yeah, I believe it’s going to be Mariota,” Jaworski said. “This guy takes care of the football. And as I look at NFL tape every single week during the course of the season, the teams that win are the teams that are careful with the football. And when you look at Marcus Mariota, 105 touchdown passes, he takes care of the football. When I watched Jameis Winston last season, I saw far too many interceptions, in fact 18. And when I watched the tape there were 13 balls that should have been intercepted. So I like quarterbacks that take care of the football.”

Let me be clear - I believe the Bucs should draft Mariota but that the Bucs are still undecided. They could very well take Winston. When they do I'll be happy that FSU fans got what they deserve.

 

[jurb26]

Nobody know but you've already proclaimed victory?

Nice shtick.

I wrote that after Jaworski's quote, which has since been changed.

Let me be clear - I believe the Bucs should draft Mariota but that the Bucs are still undecided. They could very well take Winston. When they do I'll be happy that FSU fans got what they deserve.

The Bucs are decided, IMO. They just aren't letting that out. I don't care who they take. I think they take Winston and I think Winston is the better prospect. They may feel differently and that's fine by me.

 

[gump]

Does it really matter if Winston is there or not? Sure, this is unusual but not a big deal IMO. Wasn't it just a few years ago that Joe Thomas went fishing during the draft? I know he wasn't the top pick but he was in the running for it.

Does it matter, maybe, maybe not, but it's just a very strange thing for a guy to do who is trying build a positive image. The story of staying home so he can be with his friends and family is utterly ridiculous. Every other QB has went to the draft, why does he really not want to be there?

Mariota...and now Amari Cooper...also being utterly ridiculous.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Cross-posted from Mariota thread:

Sport Science - Winston vs. Mariota

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7kHOkrWxLY

Winston = Roethlisberger

Mariota = Manziel

* Mariota has 68% completion percentage, but much of that was on first read completions. The above stated when forced to move past his first read in the progression, his accuracy went down 25% (in part from failing to reset his feet before passing, if forced to move within or out of the pocket).

 

[Snotbubbles]

Love the thread title. Hoge thinks Gurley should go #1. At this point, he's become a person who simply says stuff to get a reaction.

 

[werdnoynek]

Looks like the alleged rape victim has filed civil suit... I'm sure the Winston camp was well prepared for this and everyone knew it was coming.

 

[Proust Loves Cake]

Looks like the alleged rape victim has filed civil suit... I'm sure the Winston camp was well prepared for this and everyone knew it was coming.

Yup. Not a surprise at all.

He will wind up settling. That won't be a surprise either.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Looks like the alleged rape victim has filed civil suit... I'm sure the Winston camp was well prepared for this and everyone knew it was coming.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/16/jameis-winston-sued-by-sexual-assault-accuser/

Jameis Winston sued by sexual assault accuser

Posted by Josh Alper on April 16, 2015, 5:05 PM EDT AP

Jameis Winston recently expressed his negative feelings about the focus on off-field incidents while discussing his viability as an NFL quarterback, but it doesn’t look like that focus is going to be going away anytime soon.

Matt Baker of the Tampa Bay Times reports that Erica Kinsman has filed a lawsuit related to her allegation that Winston raped her in 2012. Kinsman went public with her allegations earlier this year and accused Winston of raping her after she had a drink she believes included something other than alcohol at a bar in Tallahassee.

The lawsuit makes claims of sexual battery, assault, false imprisonment and “intentional infliction of emotional distress arising out of forcible rape.” Kinsman’s attorney John Clune released a statement about the suit.

“Today, a very brave young woman filed her lawsuit against Jameis Winston for the sexual battery that she reported to police in December 2012.,” the statement reads. “Over the past two years, this survivor of sexual violence has had to endure a delinquent police investigation, a hostile FSU athletic department, and Mr. Winston’s bullying lawyer. But the more these forces sought to silence her, the more determined she has become to step forward and hold Jameis Winston accountable for his actions. With the support of her family, she is prepared for this fight and for the counterclaims and the smear campaigns that will surely follow.”

Winston was not charged by the Tallahassee police department and was also cleared of violating the Florida State University code of conduct.

 

[Capella]

Looks like the alleged rape victim has filed civil suit... I'm sure the Winston camp was well prepared for this and everyone knew it was coming.

Not sure if sarcastic or not but the only surprise is that they didn't wait till draft day to file it.

 

[Bob Magaw]

PFT, after looking at the law suit wording, noted a second victim and complaint.

This reminds me of an article I read a few weeks ago. The percentage of false rapes reported was under 10% (4-8%?). But the percentage of unreported rapes could be north of 40%. I didn't do the math, but the claim was that for every false rape claim, there could be many, many more that go unreported.

If the second victim is new information (and I think it is), teams may want to at least investigate that.

* Maybe nothing happened. Hard for me to be certain of that, given independent reports that the internal investigation by the school and by local police were almost non-existent. If something happened, how would we even know, since it doesn't look like they were looking too hard to find out the answer to that question (and he did bring in a lot of money for the the University, so I can see how there might have been a slight conflict of interest in a thorough investigation).

 

[cstu]

Looks like the alleged rape victim has filed civil suit... I'm sure the Winston camp was well prepared for this and everyone knew it was coming.

Not sure if sarcastic or not but the only surprise is that they didn't wait till draft day to file it.

Respect to her for not waiting.

 

[cstu]

Here is the statement Kinsman's attorney, John Clune, gave to Baker of the Tampa Bay Times:

"Today, a very brave young woman filed her lawsuit against Jameis Winston for the sexual battery that she reported to police in December 2012. Over the past two years, this survivor of sexual violence has had to endure a delinquent police investigation, a hostile FSU athletic department, and Mr. Winston's bullying lawyer. But the more these forces sought to silence her, the more determined she has become to step forward and hold Jameis Winston accountable for his actions. With the support of her family, she is prepared for this fight and for the counterclaims and the smear campaigns that will surely follow.

"We know that quite often the public is quick to support the cause against sexual violence but at times can be slow to support the individual women who come forward. We hope that this case becomes a model for understanding what real sexual assault cases look like as well as the barriers that survivors face in coming forward. Perhaps more than anything, Erica hopes to show other survivors the strength and empowerment that can come from refusing to stay silent no matter what forces are against you.

"Jameis Winston in contrast has proven time and time again to be an entitled athlete who believes he can take what he wants. He took something here that he was not entitled to and he hurt someone. There are consequences for that behavior and since others have refused to hold him accountable, our client will."

 

[cstu]

"As for timing, we didn't want to wait until the eve of the (NFL) draft or after he signed (an NFL) contract," attorney John Clune said. "As soon as we finished the various motions briefing on the FSU case, we turned our attention to Jameis and got it filed."

 

[cstu]

Story is everywhere. If someone didn't know about this before then they do now.

https://news.google.com/news/story?ncl=dRKH2vVS1aESObMkoZMSBawciC63M&q=jameis&lr=English&hl=en&sa=X&ei=v1EwVZG-LNC1ogTi54CABQ&ved=0CCkQqgIwAA

 

[cstu]

On October 25, 2013, Plaintiff’s victim advocate at FSU informed her that a second woman had come forward and reported being sexually assaulted by Winston,” the complaint alleges at paragraph 13.

 

[cstu]

The good news is that since he's innocent he'll testify in court and clear his good name.

 

[mr roboto]

He shouldn't go #1. This is too big. I know those who follow Winston 'knew it was coming.' The broader public didn't. They will now.