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QB Jameis Winston, NYG (3 Viewers)

RushHour said:
Not a great advertisement for PFF grades I guess.....

The thing is, it wouldn't matter if he was just an average or below average QB starter, except that he was drafted #1 overall and the media has pushed him as the future of the QB position poised for a breakout (although this year there have been shinier objects like Wentz to focus on, so he hasn't had that much attention).

I agree that sometimes we are too hard on young players too early (see Goff), but in this case it doesn't feel like there has been enough scrutiny - there is the odd "is Winston actually good?" sentiment in the media, but it hasn't really caught on. He's still given a pass to some extent. It's scary that he hasn't really shown signs of improvement, I don't care what his stats are. 
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I dunno maybe most in the media realize he's had an injury for a large portion of the year to his throwing shoulder whereas people on the message board who don't know as much but have an agenda just choose to ignore that? I dunno, just spitballin here. 

Also, PFF is pretty great. They don't have an agenda, just watch every play and seem to be pretty balanced. They aren't perfect but they beat the halfwits who just pick and choose. 

None of this is to excuse his bad decisions, of which there are quite a few. But the good far outweighs the bad. 

 
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Winston hasn’t even completed his third year in the NFL.  He is still a ways from being a finished product and this debate is far from being settled.  

Some of those dancing on his grave right now ought to remember that, aside from how they look to others here in revelling in his struggles and actively rooting for him to fail.

 
kOOk said:
I just don't get it either, he's such a likable guy.
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Disliking a guy is one thing.  Repeatedly gloating over some poor performance and actively hoping that his career goes down in flames so that one can publicly grandstand and feed one’s ego is something else entirely.

One is just personal preference, the other is a pretty significant character flaw.

 
Bronco Billy said:
Disliking a guy is one thing.  Repeatedly gloating over some poor performance and actively hoping that his career goes down in flames so that one can publicly grandstand and feed one’s ego is something else entirely.

One is just personal preference, the other is a pretty significant character flaw.
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Lod went on a completely different message board gloating how he won the Jameis argument. I am pretty sure it's all he has going for him. 

 
I am playing the Wentz owner in the semis this week.  His backup is winston.  I really hope he just leaves Winston in

 
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lod001 said:
I won, you lost and that's life.
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Judging by how extremely and oddly important this is to you, and the fact you are going to other message boards to post about it ( :lmao: :lmao:  ) I'm fairly certain I've won a lot more in life than you have. 

 
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Capella said:
Judging by how extremely and oddly important this is to you, and the fact you are going to other message boards to post about it ( :lmao: :lmao:  ) I'm fairly certain I've won a lot more in life than you have. 
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When oh when will you please stop feeding the troll.  Discipline, my man.  Discipline.

 
Capella said:
I know. I'm sorry. 
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Let actions speak for itself.  Winston is struggling, no question. He made an awfully weird speech.  But he also came out and played hurt for a good portion of the season, and he’s shown some real positives to go with the negatives.  That takes some moxy.  He’s still awfully young.  Let it play out and see if you get the last laugh.  Lot of talent sitting there for his next HC.

 
The argument I continue to make is he's right on pace with many other good to great QB's on a numbers comparison basis early on in their careers, but because it's Jameis people (especially in Tampa) are lighting torches.

I personally feel like he's played quite well the last two weeks.  He's had two bad sack/fumbles.  The interception in front of Jackson shouldn't have been thrown in the vicinity of the receiver, but DeSean also ran a horribly lazy route and didn't make an attempt to come back to the ball.  The interception on the throw to OJ should have been a flag, which is why Jameis was so upset.  He threw another dime to OJ that put Tampa inside the ten but he fumbled.  He had the Bucs in field goal range and Doug fumbled.  68% complete for 285 yards and brought them back from a two score deficit to tie it late.

I think it's just really difficult for some people to be objective about this young man.

 
I'm thinking of rolling him out again next week. Atlanta has a fairly weak defense, it's a home game and it's on Monday night.

He didn't perform terribly last week and it's tempting to see what he can do as he comes back from the injury.

 
Bronco Billy said:
Let actions speak for itself.  Winston is struggling, no question. He made an awfully weird speech.  But he also came out and played hurt for a good portion of the season, and he’s shown some real positives to go with the negatives.  That takes some moxy.  He’s still awfully young.  Let it play out and see if you get the last laugh.  Lot of talent sitting there for his next HC.
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The speech is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen in my life but he makes so many difficult throws and his teammates love him. I don't know if he will clean up the dumb turnovers, but I hope a new coach can reach him on that. That part is frustrating. I don't know why he can't just accept a broken play. 

 
Grahamburn said:
The argument I continue to make is he's right on pace with many other good to great QB's on a numbers comparison basis early on in their careers, but because it's Jameis people (especially in Tampa) are lighting torches.

I personally feel like he's played quite well the last two weeks.  He's had two bad sack/fumbles.  The interception in front of Jackson shouldn't have been thrown in the vicinity of the receiver, but DeSean also ran a horribly lazy route and didn't make an attempt to come back to the ball.  The interception on the throw to OJ should have been a flag, which is why Jameis was so upset.  He threw another dime to OJ that put Tampa inside the ten but he fumbled.  He had the Bucs in field goal range and Doug fumbled.  68% complete for 285 yards and brought them back from a two score deficit to tie it late.

I think it's just really difficult for some people to be objective about this young man.
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Jackson's effort on that pick was unbelievable. Later in the game when the D was on the field he was on the sideline 40 yards away from his offensive teammates. I imagine he won't be back. 

 
Bronco Billy and Capella are on top of this.  Winston is a stud, no matter what anybody might think.  We have excuses, like all good lawyers do.  Jameis is a monster and just needs more time and players and coaches.

 
This is starting to get close to the Tiger Woods thread over in the FFA. The one where the guy / lawyer won't let it go, no matter what.  Even though it's schtick. It's all inconceivable, but fantastic nonetheless.

 
kOOk said:
This is starting to get close to the Tiger Woods thread over in the FFA. The one where the guy / lawyer won't let it go, no matter what.  Even though it's schtick. It's all inconceivable, but fantastic nonetheless.
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Let what go? What are you suggesting?

 
kOOk said:
I'm suggesting that this Jameis Winston mission is not one to take on.  And you, what are you suggesting?
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The mission has been 4 years in the making. I don’t know the outcome. Others seem to be quite sure of themselves. 

I hope the Bucs turn it around and would expect if they do it will be with Jameis as the QB. 

 
Grahamburn said:
The mission has been 4 years in the making. I don’t know the outcome. Others seem to be quite sure of themselves. 

I hope the Bucs turn it around and would expect if they do it will be with Jameis as the QB. 
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I'm not "sure of myself", if that's what you're trying to imply. I do feel like he's a crappy QB and nowhere near a leader.  Time will bare that out.  What's your stance?

 
kOOk said:
Bronco Billy and Capella are on top of this.  Winston is a stud, no matter what anybody might think.  We have excuses, like all good lawyers do.  Jameis is a monster and just needs more time and players and coaches.
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I actually said he was league average this year. If you read that as "stud", that's a comprehension problem with you, not me. 

 
kOOk said:
No need for a link.  Great guy.  Easily one of the best posters on this site.  Just let it go.
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You said he's done it before.  I haven't heard of it so I just asked you to provide a link where he's played the race card.  If there is one I'll acknowledge what you said as a possible reaction by Winston.

 
kOOk said:
3 years? Or should we give him 4?  The players around him, they all agree, he will get it done.
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I'd certainly give him the 5 years he's signed for.  He'll be all of 26.  He's every bit as good as Stafford.  Dalton.  Rivers.  Cousins.  Mariota.  Flacco.  He's in the top half of NFL QB's.  I don't even think that's really debatable.  Those guys hang around the NFL for a long time.  When he's at the end of his deal if Tampa decides to move on he's going to get a monster contract from another team.  No doubt in my mind.  And he'll probably go on to be extremely successful for whatever franchise hangs on to him.

The narrative in here is that's he's some kind of bust, which in my mind is ludicrous. 

 
JohnnyU said:
You said he's done it before.  I haven't heard of it so I just asked you to provide a link where he's played the race card.  If there is one I'll acknowledge what you said as a possible reaction by Winston.
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No need. It was one of those things where two people got confused and it was total message board crap.  It doesn't matter, Capella is a good guy.

 
Grahamburn said:
I'd certainly give him the 5 years he's signed for.  He'll be all of 26.  He's every bit as good as Stafford.  Dalton.  Rivers.  Cousins.  Mariota.  Flacco.  He's in the top half of NFL QB's.  I don't even think that's really debatable.  Those guys hang around the NFL for a long time.  When he's at the end of his deal if Tampa decides to move on he's going to get a monster contract from another team.  No doubt in my mind.  And he'll probably go on to be extremely successful for whatever franchise hangs on to him.

The narrative in here is that's he's some kind of bust, which in my mind is ludicrous. 
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He's definitely not as good as Stafford or Rivers, at least so far. He's too turnover prone and too inaccurate. 

 
kOOk said:
Bronco Billy and Capella are on top of this.  Winston is a stud, no matter what anybody might think.  We have excuses, like all good lawyers do.  Jameis is a monster and just needs more time and players and coaches.
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It’s always enjoyable to watch people use the cheap tactic of putting a person into a position they haven't put forth and then using that false position to denegrate them.  Have your fun.

 
Bronco Billy said:
It’s always enjoyable to watch people use the cheap tactic of putting a person into a position they haven't put forth and then using that false position to denegrate them.  Have your fun.
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Nuts.  Love you BB, but that was nuts.  Read it back again.

 
steelers1080 said:
He's definitely not as good as Stafford or Rivers, at least so far. He's too turnover prone and too inaccurate. 
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Comparing them as they are now, no, maybe not.  But in their first two years in the league?  Yeah, Jameis is better than they were.  Stafford threw 13 TD's and 20 INT's his rookie season.  Barely played his second season.  It all clicked in his 3rd year, but he hasn't come anywhere close to that level of play since. Stafford's Lions went 4-12 in his fourth season and his TD:INT ration was 20:17 and he had Calvin Johnson.  I don't remember anyone calling for his head or screaming bust after that year?  Rivers' record was certainly better than Jameis' in his first two years, but his numbers weren't and he had LaDanian Tomlinson to hand the ball to.

It's just extremely premature to write this kid off.

 
Bronco Billy said:
Pass.  You’re clearly fishing and quite frankly you just aren’t worth it wasting more time and effort on.  Have a great day.
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I can agree to an extent. Having fun here. But do you really think Jameis Winston is a good QB?  Yes or no? Take a stand.

 
JohnnyU said:
I thought 4000+ yds and 28 tds just one year ago proves he's a good QB.
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You'd think so.  Or at least a capable one.  The additions of O.J. Howard and DeSean Jackson coupled with Hard Knocks blew the expectations through the roof for Winston and the Bucs.  They've clearly underachieved.   

 
Grahamburn said:
You'd think so.  Or at least a capable one.  The additions of O.J. Howard and DeSean Jackson coupled with Hard Knocks blew the expectations through the roof for Winston and the Bucs.  They've clearly underachieved.   
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Yes, JW has underachieved but that doesn't mean he isn't a good QB one year removed from a great year.

 
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