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QB Jameis Winston, NYG (1 Viewer)

Did anyone read the article I posted? You know, the one about throwing the actual football really well on 3rd down and basically him being the most underrated QB in the NFL. 

 
Grahamburn said:
Did anyone read the article I posted? You know, the one about throwing the actual football really well on 3rd down and basically him being the most underrated QB in the NFL. 
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From a pure statistical POV, Winston (aside from his 14 fumbles) had his best year.  But this is where also I think stats don’t come close to telling the story about Winston.

Todd Monken on Winston - don’t try so hard...

Personally, I think the Bucs have messed up in developing him (among other things).  I remember back to some of the conversations I heard during Hard Knocks between him and Koetter, thinking ‘huh?’.  Even going back to the firing of Lovie Smith to promote Koetter, to keep from losing Koetter...not saying that Lovie was a great coach - far from it.  But programmatically, it felt very much like a one-sided/dimensional call.

But to Monken’s point, what with the rhyming pre-game ‘ritual?’ they showed on Hard Knocks, to the ‘W’ stuff and the coming off the sidelines to start ‘ish’ with the Saints.  All while going 5-11.  It paints a picture of a team that has put a player at the epicenter of their organization who still demonstrates a significant level of immaturity.  So while you heard Jason Licht rave about Winston as one of the best leaders he’s ever been around during HK last year, and how you’re hearing his OC criticize it less than a year later, lot of conflicting signals being sent to Winston by that organization - but at the same time not without some merit.

 
Bojang0301 said:
Goodell’s NFL is the best. Here we go Zeke 2.0
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Hardly.  The NFL found physical evidence and 3rd party testimony that Elliot beat Tiffany Thompson 3 different times over the course of a week.  Unless there is evidence that has yet to be disclosed, there is only the accusation of the uber driver against Winston, with Winston’s denial being corroborated.

 
Bronco Billy said:
Hardly.  The NFL found physical evidence and 3rd party testimony that Elliot beat Tiffany Thompson 3 different times over the course of a week.  Unless there is evidence that has yet to be disclosed, there is only the accusation of the uber driver against Winston, with Winston’s denial being corroborated.
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:lmao:  how have I not ignored you yet? Well welcome to the club pal.

 
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PlasmaDogPlasma said:
Wow, somehow I missed this Uber story. That Jameis sure does love sexual assault.
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It could have happened, but the woman didn’t file a complaint with the police, and said she was assaulted by Winston who she said was in the front seat and was the only other person in the car.  Winston’s story, which is corroborated by Ron Darby, was that there were 3 people and the driver in the car, that he was in the backseat, and that he never touched her.  According to Winston’s lawyer, when confronted with Winston’s version that the uber driver could not identify Winston as the passenger in the front seat who she claims assaulted her.

There is nothing to support the woman’s story other than her word.  I know in this era of me-too that we’ve flipped the assumption of innocence and burden of proof on its head, and the driver could have very well been assaulted that night, but at the very least it’s extremely questionable whether Winston did it or could have even been in a position to do it.

.

 
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Bronco Billy said:
It could have happened, but the woman didn’t file a complaint with the police, and said she was assaulted by Winston who she said was in the front seat and was the only other person in the car.  Winston’s story, which is corroborated by Ron Darby, was that there were 3 people and the driver in the car, that he was in the backseat, and that he never touched her.  According to Winston’s lawyer, when confronted with Winston’s version that the uber driver could not identify Winston as the passenger in the front seat who she claims assaulted her.

There is nothing to support the woman’s story other than her word.  I know in this era of me-too that we’ve flipped the assumption of innocence and burden of proof on its head, and the driver could have very well been assaulted that night, but at the very least it’s extremely questionable whether Winston did it or could have even been in a position to do it.

.
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Agree with your overall point, that we don''t know what happened. I do question Darby's corroboration because he was teammates with Winston at Florida State and I believe he supported Winston's side of the story in the alleged assault which took place there. He could very well be telling the truth, or he could be supporting his buddy no matter what he did. We just don't know.

 
dhockster said:
Agree with your overall point, that we don''t know what happened. I do question Darby's corroboration because he was teammates with Winston at Florida State and I believe he supported Winston's side of the story in the alleged assault which took place there. He could very well be telling the truth, or he could be supporting his buddy no matter what he did. We just don't know.
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I agree with this.  It is certainly odd that Darby was a supporting witness for Winston both at FSU during the alleged rape investigation and now here in this situation.  It could be that they are tight friends who hang around together a lot, or it could be a friend covering up.  So difficult to get to some undisputed facts when the accounts are so diverse from each side.

 
Bronco Billy said:
It could have happened, but the woman didn’t file a complaint with the police, and said she was assaulted by Winston who she said was in the front seat and was the only other person in the car.  Winston’s story, which is corroborated by Ron Darby, was that there were 3 people and the driver in the car, that he was in the backseat, and that he never touched her.  According to Winston’s lawyer, when confronted with Winston’s version that the uber driver could not identify Winston as the passenger in the front seat who she claims assaulted her.

There is nothing to support the woman’s story other than her word.  I know in this era of me-too that we’ve flipped the assumption of innocence and burden of proof on its head, and the driver could have very well been assaulted that night, but at the very least it’s extremely questionable whether Winston did it or could have even been in a position to do it..
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https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/22/report-nfl-concluded-ronald-darby-didnt-witness-entire-jameis-winston-uber-ride/

Eagles cornerback Ronald Darby, a former Florida State teammate of Bucs quarterback Jameis Winston, served as a witness in the 2012 rape case against Winston. Darby also has served as a witness regarding the March 2016 incident that the NFL has spent the last several months investigating.

While Darby’s story may have helped Winston the first time around, Darby’s version of the events that unfolded more than two years ago in Arizona has a key flaw.

Mike Garafolo of NFL Media reports that the NFL’s investigation has determined that Darby, who has insisted that Winston did nothing inappropriate while receiving a ride from an Uber driver, had not been present for the entire duration of the trip.

Said Darby via a statement released after the issue first came up: “I felt the need to come forward and clarify some inaccurate accounts of the evening of March 13, 2016 when myself, a friend and Jameis Winston took an Uber ride in Arizona. There were three of us in the car, not just one as has been reported. Myself and Jameis were in the backseat. I am confident that nothing inappropriate in nature happened in the car that evening and Jameis did not have any physical contact with the Uber driver. The accusations are just not true.”

Obviously, if Darby wasn’t in the car for the entire ride, it’s impossible for him to know whether Winston did something he shouldn’t have done.
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I don't assume anything simply because Darby was around for both issues.  Might simply be an odd coincidence.  

 
massraider said:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/22/report-nfl-concluded-ronald-darby-didnt-witness-entire-jameis-winston-uber-ride/

I don't assume anything simply because Darby was around for both issues.  Might simply be an odd coincidence.  
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Good find - so, the NFL found Darby was not in the car during part of the ride.  Unfortunately that vague report really doesn’t help either way.  It means he was in the car for part of the ride.  The question is whether he was present when they went through the drive-through.

.

 
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Bronco Billy said:
Good find - so, the NFL found Darby was not in the car during part of the ride.  Unfortunately that vague report really doesn’t help either way.  It means he was in the car for part of the ride.  The question is whether he was present when they went through the drive-through..
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One can draw  the conclusion that that question was answered.  If Darby was in the car when the alleged assault happened, we wouldn't be at this point.  That seems logical, and it might not be correct, but I dunno how we assume anything else.

Three game suspension certainly seems like a capitulation/agreement/negotiation.  Six games is what this calls for.  Where is THREE games coming from?  

 
Bronco Billy said:
How?  The story you posted gives no evidence of that either way, only the unsupported allusion that this was the case when the author clearly does not know that to be true.
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I literally answered that in the next sentence.  THAT'S how one can draw the conclusion.  I didn't say it was correct, I said one can draw the conclusion.  

I don't see how there is any evidence, or ''supporting allusions" that will be happening at any time.  One person's word against another's.   :shrug:

His suspension is apparently coming from 'not reporting the incident in a timely manner', so that answers my previous question about why three games.  

The NFL wants this to go away, clearly, and so does Team Winston, as he is apparently not contesting the suspension.  

 
massraider said:
I literally answered that in the next sentence.  THAT'S how one can draw the conclusion.  I didn't say it was correct, I said one can draw the conclusion.  

I don't see how there is any evidence, or ''supporting allusions" that will be happening at any time.  One person's word against another's.   :shrug:

His suspension is apparently coming from 'not reporting the incident in a timely manner', so that answers my previous question about why three games.  

The NFL wants this to go away, clearly, and so does Team Winston, as he is apparently not contesting the suspension.  
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First off, we don’t know that there is a suspension.  It has not been handed down.  The reporting has been terrible on this.  Look at Schefter (no surprise from him) - states as fact that there will be a 3 game suspension while following up immediately after that Winston hasn’t been notified and that Schefter admits he doesn’t know how long the suspension is.  That’s despicable journalism right there - even if it does turn out to be correct.  No one know yet - not even Winston.

.

 
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Winston essentially admitted he did it with his apology after claiming nothing happened beforehand. This is what... the 3rd incident of this nature?  He’s a predator. 

 
Great guy who has been wrongly accused throughout his illustrious career and deserves much better than this.  A travesty all around.  The press should be ashamed and brought to justice, not Jameis.

 
If Darby lied in this instance to protect Jameis, it then calls into question his defense of Jameis in the Florida State case.

 
whoknew said:
That's not the only interesting thing. Why wasn't Winston suspended for six games?
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Terrible article.  Is the author suggesting that every incident is equal, and that equal punishment should be meted out despite situations and evidence available being completely different?  And right up to Winston capitulating as part of the agreement with the NFL that got him the 3 game suspension all we had was the Uber driver’s word of what happened and absolutely nothing more.  Is that going to be the standard to initiate the equal punishment?  One person’s accusation with nothing to corroborate?

Like I said in an earlier post, we are starting to wander into some very dangerous territory here.

 
In a statement, the NFL warned suspended QB Jameis Winston that "a future violation of the Personal Conduct Policy will result in more substantial discipline, including a potential ban from the NFL."

Winston is no stranger to off-field trouble. In 2013, while still at Florida State, he was the subject of sexual assault allegations before then being involved in a couple shoplifting incidents in 2013 and 2014. Winston was then suspended for a 2014 game at FSU for vulgar comments. The lone NFL incident was his 2016 groping of an Uber driver, which Winston was just suspended three games for, and the league isn't happy. The Bucs need to decide if they're going to commit to Winston long-term. He's due a guaranteed-for-injury-only $21 million in 2019 before his contract expires in the spring of 2020.

Source: Profootballtalk on NBC Sports  

Jun 29 - 10:47 AM
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How do we approach Jameis Winston "football talk" when he can't stay on the field for personal reasons?  I'd say the personal conduct policy of the NFL makes it impossible to do so. 

 
Bronco Billy said:
Terrible article.  Is the author suggesting that every incident is equal, and that equal punishment should be meted out despite situations and evidence available being completely different?  And right up to Winston capitulating as part of the agreement with the NFL that got him the 3 game suspension all we had was the Uber driver’s word of what happened and absolutely nothing more.  Is that going to be the standard to initiate the equal punishment?  One person’s accusation with nothing to corroborate?

Like I said in an earlier post, we are starting to wander into some very dangerous territory here.
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He ####### apologized to the Uber driver.

It's now her word, and his word, against.....No one's. 

Yep tell me more about the dangerous territory. I'm really nervous!

 
massraider said:
He ####### apologized to the Uber driver.

It's now her word, and his word, against.....No one's. 

Yep tell me more about the dangerous territory. I'm really nervous!
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Yeah, I detailed the admission by Winston.  Thanks for reiterating that.

What that article calls for in part, as well as some here as well, is for damaging a person’s career - or worse - on the basis of an unsupported accusation.  This country has done that in the past, much to its shame.  But that’s where we are currently headed again right now.  It’s sounds as though that doesn’t bother you in the least.

 
Bronco Billy said:
Yeah, I detailed the admission by Winston.  Thanks for reiterating that.

What that article calls for in part, as well as some here as well, is for damaging a person’s career - or worse - on the basis of an unsupported accusation.  This country has done that in the past, much to its shame.  But that’s where we are currently headed again right now.  It’s sounds as though that doesn’t bother you in the least.
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You know I worry about any woman being able to ruin your career with an accusation. But the flip side is saying that as long as there's no witnesses a guy can do anything. You're certainly picking the wrong guy to support in this case.

 
Winston has an uphill battle to be the Bucs QB in 2019.  That said, some team will sign him at bargain starter prices next off-season, he’ll get the proverbial ‘clean slate’.

 
voiceofunreason said:
You know I worry about any woman being able to ruin your career with an accusation. But the flip side is saying that as long as there's no witnesses a guy can do anything. You're certainly picking the wrong guy to support in this case.
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I’m not supporting Winston.  I’m glad he was disciplined.   I’m also glad that he may be down to one last chance.  Maybe this will be his epiphany.  He says he has sworn off alcohol.  We’ll see.

 
Bronco Billy said:
I’m not supporting Winston.  I’m glad he was disciplined.   I’m also glad that he may be down to one last chance.  Maybe this will be his epiphany.  He says he has sworn off alcohol.  We’ll see.
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I’m tempted to buy in dynasty. I mean shouldn’t he have women all over him? He can’t really be dumb enough to grope his way out of over a hundred million dollars that he’ll earn in the rest of his career. Depends what he’s selling for right now though.

 
voiceofunreason said:
I’m tempted to buy in dynasty. I mean shouldn’t he have women all over him? He can’t really be dumb enough to grope his way out of over a hundred million dollars that he’ll earn in the rest of his career. Depends what he’s selling for right now though.
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It depends if he intends to accept personal responsibility.  If he’s serious about his swearing off alcohol, that’s a great start and a sign that he recognizes he has a problem and that he wants to solve it.  I’m guessing he’s never been backed into a corner like this before - it can change a person.  If you want to buy, you ought to get a good price right now.

 
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