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QB Lamar Jackson, BAL (3 Viewers)

humpback said:
I don't know where you guys get this stuff. It's very easy to look up QB contracts and when they were signed, and it absolutely is not simply the prior deal plus $1. This notion that the player doesn't matter at all is silly.
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For my part I have never understood your dismissiveness of Lamar. He's not Jimmy Garoppolo or Derek Carr or Gardner Minshew. He is still very young and has performed at too high of a level.

You seem to think that circumstances don't matter. I think Hurts playing behind a top 3 offensive line with two top notch WRs, an excellent TE and the best defense in the league is relevant. It amazes me how easily you seem to discount that.

The NFL doesn't.

I think if the roles were reversed you wouldn't bat an eye at Lamar signing a league leading deal.

You can trot out all the "1-3 playoff record" or "But...injury" you want but all that ignores the facts that have been laid out in detail in this thread. No point in reiterating them because you don't seem to care.

Lamar 1: Everyone else 0
 
GregR said:
Chaka said:
I know what agent fee % typically are but does anyone know which portion of contracts they come off of?
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3% according to NFLN. Didn't mention what all it might or might not apply to on the contract.
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3% is the max allowed by the CBA. It was posted earlier in the thread that agents compete for clients, and an agent likely would have offered Jackson 1% or maybe even less to sign him as a client.
 
Lamar should have signed a huge extension two year ago, and been in line for another one two years from now.
So, in reality, Lamar's agent didn't maximize his clients worth
 
Chaka said:
The NFL doesn't.
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The facts don't agree with your assertion here. Did a single team seriously consider signing Jackson to an offer sheet? That has not been reported.

As far as we know, the Ravens are the only team willing to sign Jackson to the contract he signed. One team does not equal "the NFL".

Chaka said:
Lamar 1: Everyone else 0
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Lamar blew it. He could have signed a deal that was essentially the same last offseason, in which case he would have had his substantial signing bonus a year sooner. What did he gain by waiting? Virtually nothing. He got a huge payday contract, of course, and good for him for that. But he could have had it a year ago. Him waiting for the trivial amount he gained is not a victory. Meanwhile, he didn't do himself any favors with regard to his relationships with the various principals in the organization... and that was all unnecessary.
 
ghostguy123 said:
Lamar should have signed a huge extension two year ago, and been in line for another one two years from now.
So, in reality, Lamar's agent didn't maximize his clients worth
Click to expand...

Agree he should have signed a huge extension two years ago. However, it would have been an extension tacked onto the 5th year option... so he wouldn't have been in line for another contract extension two years from now. More like 3-4 years from now.
 
Just Win Baby said:
ghostguy123 said:
Lamar should have signed a huge extension two year ago, and been in line for another one two years from now.
So, in reality, Lamar's agent didn't maximize his clients worth
Click to expand...

Agree he should have signed a huge extension two years ago. However, it would have been an extension tacked onto the 5th year option... so he wouldn't have been in line for another contract extension two years from now. More like 3-4 years from now.
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If he got that deal two years ago and invested his signing money............oh well, it is what it is
 
There has been some confusion as to whether it’s an extension of his one-year, $32.4 million franchise tender — especially since the team announced it as an extension. (Because he wasn’t under contract, there was nothing to extend.) Per a source with knowledge of the situation, it is a straight five-year deal.

That means it’s worth $52 million per year. That makes it, on the surface, significantly more valuable than the Jalen Hurts contract, since Hurts gets less than $260 million over the next SIX years.

With $185 million in total guarantees, the all-important full guarantee at signing isn’t known. Jackson wanted the Deshaun Watson deal — five years, $230 million, every penny guaranteed. We’ll eventually know how much is guaranteed at signing and then, more importantly, how much of the remaining injury guarantees convert to full guarantees in 2024, 2025, and/or 2026.
Click to expand...
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/04/27/lamar-jacksons-deal-is-five-years-260-million/
 
Just Win Baby said:
Chaka said:
The NFL doesn't.
Click to expand...

The facts don't agree with your assertion here. Did a single team seriously consider signing Jackson to an offer sheet? That has not been reported.

As far as we know, the Ravens are the only team willing to sign Jackson to the contract he signed. One team does not equal "the NFL".

Chaka said:
Lamar 1: Everyone else 0
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Lamar blew it. He could have signed a deal that was essentially the same last offseason, in which case he would have had his substantial signing bonus a year sooner. What did he gain by waiting? Virtually nothing. He got a huge payday contract, of course, and good for him for that. But he could have had it a year ago. Him waiting for the trivial amount he gained is not a victory. Meanwhile, he didn't do himself any favors with regard to his relationships with the various principals in the organization... and that was all unnecessary.
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Before today the Ravens have been considered an aspirational model for how to properly run a franchise. Are we discounting that now?

None of us know what other teams may or may not have been planning to do but the conventional wisdom has been, for awhile , that: 1) teams simply believed the Ravens were all in on Lamar and didn't want to negotiate a contract for them and 2) any team who was considering a move for him was going to wait until after this draft.

As to your other point I have been beating the drum that Lamar left money on the table by not signing earlier (by at least a year). So I'm with you there, to a degree. The reality is more than a few people in here, humpback among them, have been discounting Lamar's real world value and pressing the notion Lamar would have to settle for less than a top of market deal. That is the important context of my statement. Lamar 1: Everyone else 0
 
Chaka said:
humpback said:
I don't know where you guys get this stuff. It's very easy to look up QB contracts and when they were signed, and it absolutely is not simply the prior deal plus $1. This notion that the player doesn't matter at all is silly.
Click to expand...
For my part I have never understood your dismissiveness of Lamar. He's not Jimmy Garoppolo or Derek Carr or Gardner Minshew. He is still very young and has performed at too high of a level.

You seem to think that circumstances don't matter. I think Hurts playing behind a top 3 offensive line with two top notch WRs, an excellent TE and the best defense in the league is relevant. It amazes me how easily you seem to discount that.

The NFL doesn't.

I think if the roles were reversed you wouldn't bat an eye at Lamar signing a league leading deal.

You can trot out all the "1-3 playoff record" or "But...injury" you want but all that ignores the facts that have been laid out in detail in this thread. No point in reiterating them because you don't seem to care.

Lamar 1: Everyone else 0
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That's probably because, either intentionally or unintentionally, you never actually read what I've written with an open mind. I'm not dismissive of Lamar at all, have said multiple times how he's an excellent player and he deserves a massive contract. The only reason why I bring up the negatives is because they are very much part of the equation, and the reason why IMO (and the Ravens and the NFL) he isn't "worth" a Deshaun Watson + contract. If I thought he was Jimmy G or Carr or Minshew I certainly wouldn't have said he's worth a contract right around what he finally signed for, would I have?

He seemingly got right around what I thought he should get, and right around what they had already offered him last year. Certainly seems like the entire obstacle has been his belief that he should get more guaranteed than Watson, which I and others disagreed with, precisely because of his playoff record, injury, declining recent play, etc. He and his mom finally acquiesced and yet somehow your camp is taking a victory lap.

Myself and others 1: Lamar and your camp 0
 
humpback said:
That's probably because, either intentionally or unintentionally, you never actually read what I've written with an open mind.
Click to expand...
He said with a straight face.

I don't keep a notebook so I have no problem admitting I may be confusing you for another poster.

I have said since the jump the notion of a Deshaun deal was foolish and Lamar should hire an agent. I have also been encouraging him to shoot for every guaranteed penny he could get.

We don't know what this deal is yet and, let's be real about this, we don't actually know any real details about the deal Lamar was reportedly offered previously.

Reported numbers are virtually always misrepresented when contracts are actually signed so who knows the reality behind any leaked details for contracts that were never signed.

Let's call it a 0:0 tie.
 
Just Win Baby said:
massraider said:
Rolls into the year with OBJ, Rashod Bateman, Zay Flowers, Mark Andrews
Click to expand...

Right. So he should put up his best passing season yet. We'll see.
Click to expand...
So are we projecting him to be a 3000+ yard Passer with >30 TDs now? That would be is best passing season...
Where would we have him "projected" for 2023 season performance Ranking? Right there with Davis Mills & Mac Davis? QB15 on Passing alone
If you assume another 1K & 6 TD Rushing... that would lift him to about QB6-7
 
Okay, help me out people. I am certain this post will play as early excuse making. Not my intent but inevitable. So is my personal pro-Lamar bias clouding my judgement here?

I am not sure I am viewing the Ravens WR room fairly.

Andrews still looks like the Alpha to me, which is great, he should be. But can anyone see any of the Ravens WRs as the clear #1 WR on any other NFL team?*

Who do we even think is the WR1 of this group? Bateman in my mind but without much confidence. Maybe a healthy, well paid OBJ has a lot more in the tank than I think.

TBH I don't know much about Flowers game. Apparently he is a high motor guy known for his work ethic. Is that the consensus?

He seems built exactly like Marquis Brown. Is his game similar to Brown?

I should probably make this a poll question.

Judging by nothing but Flowers size I think I would have preferred the Ravens not chase the WR run last night in favor of Anton Harrison. Ronnie Stanley's inability to stay healthy has been as big a problem as anything (18 games played in the last 3 seasons).

I have said this before but I don't think it's a coincidence Lamar's best season came when he had by far his best o-line in front of him.

*I haven't followed free agency too closely but maybe: New England, the Giants, Bears, Green Bay, Tennessee, Houston & Carolina
 
Chaka said:
Okay, help me out people. I am certain this post will play as early excuse making. Not my intent but inevitable. So is my personal pro-Lamar bias clouding my judgement here?

I am not sure I am viewing the Ravens WR room fairly.

Andrews still looks like the Alpha to me, which is great, he should be. But can anyone see any of the Ravens WRs as the clear #1 WR on any other NFL team?*

Who do we even think is the WR1 of this group? Bateman in my mind but without much confidence. Maybe a healthy, well paid OBJ has a lot more in the tank than I think.

TBH I don't know much about Flowers game. Apparently he is a high motor guy known for his work ethic. Is that the consensus?

He seems built exactly like Marquis Brown. Is his game similar to Brown?

I should probably make this a poll question.

Judging by nothing but Flowers size I think I would have preferred the Ravens not chase the WR run last night in favor of Anton Harrison. Ronnie Stanley's inability to stay healthy has been as big a problem as anything (18 games played in the last 3 seasons).

I have said this before but I don't think it's a coincidence Lamar's best season came when he had by far his best o-line in front of him.

*I haven't followed free agency too closely but maybe: New England, the Giants, Bears, Green Bay, Tennessee, Houston & Carolina
Click to expand...
Nothing like Brown his comp is Steve Smith. Steve Smith loves the guy.
 
metoo said:
Chaka said:
Okay, help me out people. I am certain this post will play as early excuse making. Not my intent but inevitable. So is my personal pro-Lamar bias clouding my judgement here?

I am not sure I am viewing the Ravens WR room fairly.

Andrews still looks like the Alpha to me, which is great, he should be. But can anyone see any of the Ravens WRs as the clear #1 WR on any other NFL team?*

Who do we even think is the WR1 of this group? Bateman in my mind but without much confidence. Maybe a healthy, well paid OBJ has a lot more in the tank than I think.

TBH I don't know much about Flowers game. Apparently he is a high motor guy known for his work ethic. Is that the consensus?

He seems built exactly like Marquis Brown. Is his game similar to Brown?

I should probably make this a poll question.

Judging by nothing but Flowers size I think I would have preferred the Ravens not chase the WR run last night in favor of Anton Harrison. Ronnie Stanley's inability to stay healthy has been as big a problem as anything (18 games played in the last 3 seasons).

I have said this before but I don't think it's a coincidence Lamar's best season came when he had by far his best o-line in front of him.

*I haven't followed free agency too closely but maybe: New England, the Giants, Bears, Green Bay, Tennessee, Houston & Carolina
Click to expand...
Nothing like Brown his comp is Steve Smith. Steve Smith loves the guy.
Click to expand...
I saw that about Smith. That's a lofty comp. Same height but Smith was a good 15-20lbs heavier.
 
Chaka said:
Okay, help me out people. I am certain this post will play as early excuse making. Not my intent but inevitable. So is my personal pro-Lamar bias clouding my judgement here?

I am not sure I am viewing the Ravens WR room fairly.

Andrews still looks like the Alpha to me, which is great, he should be. But can anyone see any of the Ravens WRs as the clear #1 WR on any other NFL team?*

Who do we even think is the WR1 of this group? Bateman in my mind but without much confidence. Maybe a healthy, well paid OBJ has a lot more in the tank than I think.

TBH I don't know much about Flowers game. Apparently he is a high motor guy known for his work ethic. Is that the consensus?

He seems built exactly like Marquis Brown. Is his game similar to Brown?

I should probably make this a poll question.

Judging by nothing but Flowers size I think I would have preferred the Ravens not chase the WR run last night in favor of Anton Harrison. Ronnie Stanley's inability to stay healthy has been as big a problem as anything (18 games played in the last 3 seasons).

I have said this before but I don't think it's a coincidence Lamar's best season came when he had by far his best o-line in front of him.

*I haven't followed free agency too closely but maybe: New England, the Giants, Bears, Green Bay, Tennessee, Houston & Carolina
Click to expand...
There's a huge range of possibilities with a new offense, players, etc. A lot will depend on health, but on paper, they should be pretty good.

I will say that this is the 3rd time in the last 5 years that they've spent a #1 pick on WR, which you would think should put to rest the narrative that they don't "support" Lamar...
 
humpback said:
Chaka said:
Okay, help me out people. I am certain this post will play as early excuse making. Not my intent but inevitable. So is my personal pro-Lamar bias clouding my judgement here?

I am not sure I am viewing the Ravens WR room fairly.

Andrews still looks like the Alpha to me, which is great, he should be. But can anyone see any of the Ravens WRs as the clear #1 WR on any other NFL team?*

Who do we even think is the WR1 of this group? Bateman in my mind but without much confidence. Maybe a healthy, well paid OBJ has a lot more in the tank than I think.

TBH I don't know much about Flowers game. Apparently he is a high motor guy known for his work ethic. Is that the consensus?

He seems built exactly like Marquis Brown. Is his game similar to Brown?

I should probably make this a poll question.

Judging by nothing but Flowers size I think I would have preferred the Ravens not chase the WR run last night in favor of Anton Harrison. Ronnie Stanley's inability to stay healthy has been as big a problem as anything (18 games played in the last 3 seasons).

I have said this before but I don't think it's a coincidence Lamar's best season came when he had by far his best o-line in front of him.

*I haven't followed free agency too closely but maybe: New England, the Giants, Bears, Green Bay, Tennessee, Houston & Carolina
Click to expand...
There's a huge range of possibilities with a new offense, players, etc. A lot will depend on health, but on paper, they should be pretty good.

I will say that this is the 3rd time in the last 5 years that they've spent a #1 pick on WR, which you would think should put to rest the narrative that they don't "support" Lamar...
Click to expand...
I think they support Lamar a ton, they spent a 1st and a 3rd on TEs in 2018 too. I just think their success scouting WRs has been spotty. I guess Marquise Brown is okay but I still contend he is miscast as a lead WR and Flowers looks like his clone. I have read multiple takes that his comp is Steve Smith but I'm going to pump the brakes on that.

I am still hopeful for Bateman though. He's got good size, seems to have good speed too so he just needs to stay healthy and the Ravens should have a reasonable WR corps. I am still not sure if any of them would be the WR1 on many other franchises but, with Andrews, as a unit they should be okay.
 
Bracie Smathers said:
Ravens make QB Lamar Jackson highest-paid player in NFL history with 5-year, $260M US deal: reports
On the Lamar deal.
... the Lamar Jackson contract was how much money he saved by NOT having an agent. Here’s the math: $260 million contract times 3% (the max NFL agent commission) equals $7.8 million in savings.
Click to expand...

As has been reported, an agent likely would have cost him 1%, since they would have competed to get a premium (big contract) client. In addition, take out the amount he could have earned on the signing bonus he could have signed last offseason as well as whatever he paid any advisors, attorneys, etc. that would have been covered by his agent. He likely came out ahead financially, but by less than 1%... not by enough to justify the drama or whatever negative effect it had on the Ravens (and thus on Jackson himself) in free agency.
 
He is currently the highest paid player in the NFL.
Before he signed the Ravens went out and overpaid for OBJ.
Right after they signed him, they drafted a WR in the first round.
The outcome shows that the drama served Lamar just fine.
 
Just Win Baby said:
Bracie Smathers said:
Ravens make QB Lamar Jackson highest-paid player in NFL history with 5-year, $260M US deal: reports
On the Lamar deal.
... the Lamar Jackson contract was how much money he saved by NOT having an agent. Here’s the math: $260 million contract times 3% (the max NFL agent commission) equals $7.8 million in savings.
Click to expand...

As has been reported, an agent likely would have cost him 1%, since they would have competed to get a premium (big contract) client. In addition, take out the amount he could have earned on the signing bonus he could have signed last offseason as well as whatever he paid any advisors, attorneys, etc. that would have been covered by his agent. He likely came out ahead financially, but by less than 1%... not by enough to justify the drama or whatever negative effect it had on the Ravens (and thus on Jackson himself) in free agency.
Click to expand...
Not to mention this "math" is counting the entire contract, not the guaranteed portion. And it isn't considering the very likely possibility that an agent would have had a deal done at least 1 if not 2 years ago and the financial implications of being that much closer to the next massive extension. And it's assuming an agent wouldn't have gotten him a larger (guaranteed) contract this time. And it's ignoring sponsorships and other off-field sources of income that an agent could have likely helped with. And...
Bracie Smathers said:
He is currently the highest paid player in the NFL.
Before he signed the Ravens went out and overpaid for OBJ.
Right after they signed him, they drafted a WR in the first round.
The outcome shows that the drama served Lamar just fine.
Click to expand...
He wanted 100% guaranteed and/or more guaranteed than Watson. He eventually settled for 71% guaranteed and $45 million less than Watson so this victory lap is pretty funny IMO. Yes, he got a massive deal and it served him 'just fine", just like pretty much everyone predicted. It also very likely cost him $, which is "just fine" as well.

I know you're disappointed that the Ravens didn't screw up like your Browns did, but deep down we all knew that wasn't going to happen.
 
Just Win Baby said:
not by enough to justify the drama or whatever negative effect it had on the Ravens (and thus on Jackson himself) in free agency.
Click to expand...
:confused: what was the negative effect? He signed before the start of the off-season program. No negative effect to the Ravens, no negative effect to him, no negative effect to anyone involved.

I don't think anyone involved has given a second thought to "drama" either. Virtually all of that was generated externally and lived outside what was happening between the Ravens & Lamar.
 
2023 NFL Draft First Round Winners, Losers, and Biggest Stories A look at the biggest fantasy football winners and losers of the first round, along with the biggest stories of the night

Fantasy Football Winners​

Lamar Jackson (QB-BAL) - He got paid, and then he added a very useful weapon in wide receiver Zay Flowers from Boston College. Between the contract, the hiring of pass-happy Todd Monken to run the offense, the signing of Odell Beckham Jr, and now the drafting of Flowers, it sure looks like the Ravens are going to showcase Jackson’s passing ability. A fantasy football renaissance is coming for Jackson as long as he can stay healthy.
Highest paid player in NFL history, saved millions by negotiating his own contract, got a new OC and added WRs.
The last time the Ravens rejiggered their offense was to go with a run-heavy attack, worked.
They are pushing in all of their chips and going to go with more of a Monken vertical attack from all signs.
 

CBS' Jonathan Jones reports Lamar Jackson has a no-tag clause and a no-trade clause in his contract.​

We have seen quarterbacks successfully use no-trade clauses to get out of town, but it doesn't seem likely that Jackson will be doing that any time soon. Jackson will be turning 31 as his five-year contract expires, so he may have enough value that the no-tag clause actually makes a difference to his market. Jackson did quite well for himself to get both of these clauses.
SOURCE: Jonathan Jones on Twitter
May 4, 2023, 1:47 PM ET
Click to expand...
 
Details of Lamar Jackson's contract

1. Signing bonus: $72.5 million.
2. 2023 base salary: $7.5 million, fully guaranteed.
3. 2024 option bonus: $17.5 million, fully guaranteed.
4. 2024 offseason roster bonus: $750,000, fully guaranteed.
5. 2024 base salary: $14.25 million, fully guaranteed.
6. 2025 option bonus: $22.5 million, fully guaranteed at signing.
7. 2025 offseason roster bonus: $750,000, guaranteed for injury at signing and fully guaranteed in March 2024.
8. 2025 base salary: $20.25 million, guaranteed for injury at signing and fully guaranteed in March 2024.
9. 2026 offseason roster bonus: $750,000.
10. 2026 base salary: $51.25 million, $29 million of which is guaranteed for injury at signing and fully guaranteed in March 2025.
11. 2027 offseason roster bonus: $750,000.
12. 2027 base salary: $51.25 million.

The deal also includes a no-trade clause, and a no-tag clause. After 2027, he becomes an unrestricted free agent.

The contract contains $135 million fully guaranteed at signing. After one season, the full guarantee moves to $156 million. After two years, it becomes $185 million. It’s a three-year, $156 million deal, with a lingering guarantee of $29 million for the fourth year. The $29 million would be subject to offset.

The cash flow is $80 million in year one, $112.5 million through year two, $156 million through year three, $208 million through year four, and $260 million through year five.
Click to expand...
 
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