QB Lamar Jackson, BAL (1 Viewer)

[massraider]

Bottom line is any mistakes Lamar made in the past as to his contract have for the most part been made moot by this record setting contract. I’ll admit, I’m not doing the math and maybe he could have made X million dollars more had he done something different - the bottom line is when we look at this contact Lamar is doing and will continue to do well financially. None of us will approach this money in our lifetime (maybe combined ) and most of us are doing well. We’re almost talking Monopoly money here. Think it’s time to move on from that talk - but that’s just me.

Agreed...how he handled this was unconventional and probably risky but he stuck to his guns and ended up with a record setting deal...it is a results-based business and while I don't think you will see a lot more Mom's representing their sons this strategy worked out for him and that is the reality of this situation.

Kirk Cousins did this too. And in terms of actual money hitting the bank, he’s right near the top over the las t


yeahyeahyeah, devastating injury, but if you have to go back to Theisman, is it really that much of a risk?

 

[Chaka]

Bottom line is any mistakes Lamar made in the past as to his contract have for the most part been made moot by this record setting contract. I’ll admit, I’m not doing the math and maybe he could have made X million dollars more had he done something different - the bottom line is when we look at this contact Lamar is doing and will continue to do well financially. None of us will approach this money in our lifetime (maybe combined ) and most of us are doing well. We’re almost talking Monopoly money here. Think it’s time to move on from that talk - but that’s just me.

Agreed...how he handled this was unconventional and probably risky but he stuck to his guns and ended up with a record setting deal...it is a results-based business and while I don't think you will see a lot more Mom's representing their sons this strategy worked out for him and that is the reality of this situation.

Kirk Cousins did this too. And in terms of actual money hitting the bank, he’s right near the top over the las t


yeahyeahyeah, devastating injury, but if you have to go back to Theisman, is it really that much of a risk?

Alex Smith but getting "Smithed" doesn't have the same ring to it.

 

[massraider]

Best QB contract: very little reward.

Bottom line.

Again, I am not certain this is true. Deshaun's contract is better because he collects his $230 mil regardless of anything that happens. He plays like poo? "#### you, pay me!". He gets Theismaned? "#### you, pay me!". Goes to prison? "#### you, pay me!"

I doubt any player lands that kind of deal again (I personally would do that for Mahomes and probably Burrow).

But, in relative terms, if they stay healthy (yes, I know it's a risk) Watson and Lamar will both have banked ~$280 mil and be RFAs by the same contract year (Watson after 2026, Lamar after 2027).

Not sure if Watson has no tag or no trade provisions, Lamar does, and that is a great potential advantage. He's free and clear after 2027. Lamar will also be a little more than a year younger when he becomes a UDFA giving him a slight edge on his fourth contract.

I doubt either Lamar or Watson are 20 year career guys, I give Watson the edge in that regard, but Lamar did very well here.

He outstripped Allen and Murray and came very close to Watson, particularly on the three year payout. I'm not a rocket surgeon but I think, checks abacus, $156 M/3 = $52 M/year over the next three years. Watson over the first three was $46 M/year.

I don't follow all the nuance of contract valuations but seeing what I see do we really think he didn't gain anything by taking his route?

I think the bottom line is that he signed a market value contract, and did well in signing it.

all the coulda woulda shoulda may be true, but they don’t really know.

the endorsement stuff, I agree with everyone, but if Lamar doesn’t care about that, I don’t either.

 

[ghostguy123]

Bottom line is any mistakes Lamar made in the past as to his contract have for the most part been made moot by this record setting contract. I’ll admit, I’m not doing the math and maybe he could have made X million dollars more had he done something different - the bottom line is when we look at this contact Lamar is doing and will continue to do well financially. None of us will approach this money in our lifetime (maybe combined ) and most of us are doing well. We’re almost talking Monopoly money here. Think it’s time to move on from that talk - but that’s just me.

Agreed...how he handled this was unconventional and probably risky but he stuck to his guns and ended up with a record setting deal...it is a results-based business and while I don't think you will see a lot more Mom's representing their sons this strategy worked out for him and that is the reality of this situation.

Kirk Cousins did this too. And in terms of actual money hitting the bank, he’s right near the top over the las t


yeahyeahyeah, devastating injury, but if you have to go back to Theisman, is it really that much of a risk?

Alex Smith but getting "Smithed" doesn't have the same ring to it.

Tua'd??

 

[Boston]

Best QB contract: very little reward.

Bottom line.

Again, I am not certain this is true. Deshaun's contract is better because he collects his $230 mil regardless of anything that happens. He plays like poo? "#### you, pay me!". He gets Theismaned? "#### you, pay me!". Goes to prison? "#### you, pay me!"

I doubt any player lands that kind of deal again (I personally would do that for Mahomes and probably Burrow).

But, in relative terms, if they stay healthy (yes, I know it's a risk) Watson and Lamar will both have banked ~$280 mil and be RFAs by the same contract year (Watson after 2026, Lamar after 2027).

Not sure if Watson has no tag or no trade provisions, Lamar does, and that is a great potential advantage. He's free and clear after 2027. Lamar will also be a little more than a year younger when he becomes a UDFA giving him a slight edge on his fourth contract.

I doubt either Lamar or Watson are 20 year career guys, I give Watson the edge in that regard, but Lamar did very well here.

He outstripped Allen and Murray and came very close to Watson, particularly on the three year payout. I'm not a rocket surgeon but I think, checks abacus, $156 M/3 = $52 M/year over the next three years. Watson over the first three was $46 M/year.

I don't follow all the nuance of contract valuations but seeing what I see do we really think he didn't gain anything by taking his route?

I think the bottom line is that he signed a market value contract, and did well in signing it.

all the coulda woulda shoulda may be true, but they don’t really know.

the endorsement stuff, I agree with everyone, but if Lamar doesn’t care about that, I don’t either.

I did it my way...

 

[Tau837]

Lamar Jackson will continue to represent himself -- and at this point he should

It took a while, but Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson finally got his new contract.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

This is a treat.

Here, Florio and Pro Football Talk explain that yeah, it was a great contract, but he should have signed this last year, and yeah, there's a no trade and no franchise tag clause and that's great but STILL!!!

He uses phrases here like "Could have/should have" and "surely should have" and "It's impossible to know, BUT"

What a perfect thread for this article.

Sure, but you can't deny his reasoning. It's all stuff we have been saying in here.

For @Just Win Baby ; Florio says

Third, Lamar should have gotten his second contract after three seasons. Like Josh Allen and Kyler Murray did. Allen earned more than $41 million more than Lamar in 2021 and 2022. That difference will never be made up. And while Lamar is making more now, Allen will be back at the table sooner for his third deal

Sorry to keep going back to this but, I'm obviously still having trouble with this. What does Florio mean here? I thought that it was effectively the same number of years regardless if the contract was signed after year three or year five because of the team option on the fifth season?

Won't Lamar and Allen be hitting their next contract at the same age season? They both just finished their fifth season.

ETA: FWIW spotrac has both Lamar & Allen as UFAs in 2028 (I think there is a typo on their Lamar page). I misread, Allen is going to be a UFA in 2029, Lamar in 2028.

So is Florio simply mistaken or trying to make another point?

After Allen's 3rd season (2020), BUF picked up his 5th year option and then signed him to a 6 year extension; at that time that put him under contract to BUF for 11 years (2018-2028). The way his contract is structured, BUF could easily trade or release him starting after the 2025, 2026, or 2027 seasons. If he is not extended, he becomes a UFA after the 2028 season, his age 32 season.

Assuming nothing unexpected happens, I expect BUF will start talking to him about an extension as early as after the 2025 season, and I expect they will ultimately sign him to a 5-6 year extension, which would keep him under contract through 2033-2034.

Florio may be alluding to the fact that BUF could sign Allen to another extension as soon as the offseason after the 2025 season. Perhaps Florio thinks that is less likely for Jackson.

More likely, Florio is just wrong. Perhaps like many fans, Florio doesn't understand that the contract extensions signed by first round QBs after their 3rd seasons don't begin in season 4. They begin in season 6, assuming the 5th year extension is picked up first, which has been true in every case in recent years.

 

[The Man With No Name]

And signing them early means that by the time their current contract is up, their new deal won't look as good (in the 2-3 years that pass)

 

[massraider]

Sorry to keep going back to this but, I'm obviously still having trouble with this. What does Florio mean here? I thought that it was effectively the same number of years regardless if the contract was signed after year three or year five because of the team option on the fifth season?

Won't Lamar and Allen be hitting their next contract at the same age season? They both just finished their fifth season.

ETA: FWIW spotrac has both Lamar & Allen as UFAs in 2028 (I think there is a typo on their Lamar page). I misread, Allen is going to be a UFA in 2029, Lamar in 2028.

So is Florio simply mistaken or trying to make another point?

He's flat out wrong, and worse, he's wrong on purpose.

When someone signs after the 3rd season, there is no set year when they will be back at the table. They can sign a two year extension, maybe the team tears up the final year or two of the deal, maybe they sign for 10 years, like Mahomes.

Allen has a 6 year deal, Lamar same money for 5 years.

Now, he is correct that Allen signed earlier, got money up front, and Lamar missed out on extension cash the last two years. But again, he is leaving info out. Allen wasn't a free agent when he signed, so he gave up control later in contract for money now. Lamar has a no-trade and no tag clause. Did Josh Allen get that? No. So Allen can get franchised. Also: Allen can get cut after 2025, and lose out on $100 mill. Seems very unlikely, but career-ending injuries can happen to guys under a long term contract as well, not just QBs on a short term deal.

Breaking Down Lamar Jackson's $260M Contract

After years of back and forth, the Baltimore Ravens & QB Lamar Jackson finally have their long term extension. Our dive into the $260M contract that includes $135 fully guaranteed at signing, & $185M for practical purposes.

www.spotrac.com

Highly recommend people take a look at the breakdown here. Josh Allen might hire Lamar's mom to do his next deal.

 

[metoo]

Lamar’s mom playing chess while you dudes in here playing checkers.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Numbers Game
...Under the terms of Lamar Jackson’s new contract with the Baltimore Ravens, he will make $80 million in salary and bonuses in 2023...

 

[ghostguy123]

So we are knocking the Josh Allen deal because he could lose money if there is a catastrophic injury.....yet he's earned a lot these past couple years including up front bonus money while Lamar didnt, while he played a couple years for not a ton......while risking catastrophic injury??

 

[ghostguy123]

Basically you could say Lamar gambled and won. I think that's fair to say.
Thing is, the fact that he gambled was really stupid.
Why make 225 million when I can risk catastrophic injury for two years to be able to make 255 million, amirite?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Lamar didnt, while he played a couple years for not a ton......while risking catastrophic injury??

You're really hung up on what COULD have happened. You do realize those risks are now in the past and therefore that issue is moot?

 

[ghostguy123]

Lamar didnt, while he played a couple years for not a ton......while risking catastrophic injury??

You're really hung up on what COULD have happened. You do realize those risks are now in the past and therefore that issue is moot?

Well, yes and no. Right now, hey, all cool. Ends justify the means I guess.
No point discussing it further, just that there have been plenty of guys who bet on themselves and lost.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

No point discussing it further

If only....

 

[ghostguy123]

No point discussing it further

If only....

Everything that can be said has been said.
All just reruns from here on out.

 

[massraider]

So we are knocking the Josh Allen deal because he could lose money if there is a catastrophic injury.....yet he's earned a lot these past couple years including up front bonus money while Lamar didnt, while he played a couple years for not a ton......while risking catastrophic injury??

No, not knocking the deal. I would have told Allen to sign early, and get that money working for you.

I am knocking Florio's framing of the issue, where he does not mention which concessions Allen had to give up, and what Lamar was able to secure.

My thesis is that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and Lamar took a risk and it paid off. One way is not right or wrong.

Another point: other players have bet on themselves and won and lost, and Lamar's mom wasn't involved in their decision. They had agents, did you read Florio posting diatribes about what a mistake they made and why they needed an agent??

No, no you didn't

 

[ghostguy123]

If Lamar would have gotten a career ending injury last year, it would have been catastrophic to him and his future.
If Lamar would have signed 2 years ago for a nice deal, then find out today he could have made 40 million more..........not really a huge deal at all. He's still uber duber duber rich.

Insurance costs money. We all have insurance of some kind, right?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

If Lamar would have gotten a career ending injury last year, it would have been catastrophic to him and his future.

Hopefully he doesn't end up in some time loop where he has to go back in time and take on all that risk AGAIN. You seem to be quite concerned about it.

 

[massraider]

If Lamar would have gotten a career ending injury last year, it would have been catastrophic to him and his future.

Yes. No one is saying it wasn't a risk.

 

[ghostguy123]

If Lamar would have gotten a career ending injury last year, it would have been catastrophic to him and his future.

Yes. No one is saying it wasn't a risk.

Well, that is 100% my issue with how he's handled it. Unnecessary risk.

Also, had he gotten a huge signing bonus two years ago and invested it, well, he's right where he is now, without the risk.

 

[massraider]

Well, that is 100% my issue with how he's handled it. Unnecessary risk.

Also, had he gotten a huge signing bonus two years ago and invested it, well, he's right where he is now, without the risk.

Right.

But the conflict over the past few months has been, Lamar not having an agent. Lamar needed an agent to get the deal done. But he didn't. He got a great deal done.

If Lamar had signed two years ago, he is probably financially better off. I agree. But players that HAVE agents play out their contract, and hit free agency all the time. Players gamble on themselves every year, that have agents.

no one is disagreeing with you.

 

[ghostguy123]

Well, that is 100% my issue with how he's handled it. Unnecessary risk.

Also, had he gotten a huge signing bonus two years ago and invested it, well, he's right where he is now, without the risk.

Right.

But the conflict over the past few months has been, Lamar not having an agent. Lamar needed an agent to get the deal done. But he didn't. He got a great deal done.

If Lamar had signed two years ago, he is probably financially better off. I agree. But players that HAVE agents play out their contract, and hit free agency all the time. Players gamble on themselves every year, that have agents.

no one is disagreeing with you.

Which players set to earn 250 million player out until free agency?
Also, yeah, I still think he should have an agent.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

If Lamar would have gotten a career ending injury last year, it would have been catastrophic to him and his future.

If any NFL player other than Deshaun Watson had a career ending injury, it would be catastrophic.

---

Bruce Lee: You're the one with the big mouth, and I would really enjoy closing it, especially in front of all my friends. But my hands are registered as lethal weapons. That means, we get into a fight, I accidentally kill you? I go to jail.

Cliff Booth: Anybody accidentally kills anybody in a fight, they go to jail. It's called manslaughter. I think all that lethal weapon ********* is just an excuse so you dancers never have to get in a real fight.

 

[ghostguy123]

If Lamar would have gotten a career ending injury last year, it would have been catastrophic to him and his future.

If any NFL player other than Deshaun Watson had a career ending injury, it would be catastrophic.

---

Bruce Lee: You're the one with the big mouth, and I would really enjoy closing it, especially in front of all my friends. But my hands are registered as lethal weapons. That means, we get into a fight, I accidentally kill you? I go to jail.

Cliff Booth: Anybody accidentally kills anybody in a fight, they go to jail. It's called manslaughter. I think all that lethal weapon ********* is just an excuse so you dancers never have to get in a real fight.

Not if it happened after signing an enormous deal.

 

[humpback]

Right.

But the conflict over the past few months has been, Lamar not having an agent. Lamar needed an agent to get the deal done. But he didn't. He got a great deal done.

If Lamar had signed two years ago, he is probably financially better off. I agree. But players that HAVE agents play out their contract, and hit free agency all the time. Players gamble on themselves every year, that have agents.

no one is disagreeing with you.

Shockingly I don't see it this way at all. I'm not sure anyone said that Lamar needed an agent to get a deal done, if they did obviously that was silly because he already had offers (reportedly very similar to what he eventually signed). What I see as the conflict is his wanting more guaranteed $ than Watson. An agent, who is in regular communication not only with the Ravens but several other clients and organizations as well, would have been much more likely to have convinced Lamar that Watson's contract was an outlier from a terrible organization, that it isn't representative of the QB market and no one is going to give you that much.

Kudos to Lamar (and his mom) for finally coming to that realization (I mean that sincerely). I still think he'd be better off with an agent and it's likely that his deal would have gotten done 2 years ago if he had one, but who really cares? All's well that ends well.

 

[Faust]

Ravens OC Todd Monken looking to lighten QB Lamar Jackson's 'burden' by utilizing new offensive weapons

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Emory Hunt@FBallGameplan
Lemme just get this out here before folks start wrongly discussing the #Ravens search for a new OC…
Lamar Jackson ran a ‘pro style’ offense in college at Louisville under Bobby Petrino

The Xs and Os with Greg Cosell: How the Ravens' offense will be radically different in 2023

 

[massraider]

Athletic article on Todd Monken

Lot more bunch formations, still a good amount of two TE

 

[humpback]

Would be nice if he showed up and spent some time with his new teammates and OC.

 

[ghostguy123]

Would be nice if he showed up and spent some time with his new teammates and OC.

He heard you

 

[Faust]

Lamar Jackson said he "absolutely" believes his rush attempts will be scaled back in Todd Monken's offense.​

Ravens beat writer Sarah Ellison said Jackson "talked quite a bit about throwing more and running less in Todd Monken's new Ravens offense". During an interview after Wednesday's OTAs Jackson noted the receivers the team brought in this offseason will only allow for more passing in a post-Greg Roman world. It will be interesting to see how much of a drop Jackson sees in rush attempts after being the most run-heavy quarterback of the last four seasons. Since 2019, Jackson has averaged 10.7 rush attempts per game and has two 1,000-yard seasons to his name. Even if Jackson's attempts are cut in half, he would still be among the most run-heavy quarterbacks in the league. While expectations for rushing totals would take a hit, he'd remain a high-end QB1 in fantasy.
SOURCE: Sarah Ellison on Twitter
May 24, 2023 at 4:27 PM ET

 

[Faust]

Ravens QB Lamar Jackson says he's 'loving' new offense under Todd Monken

 

[fatness]

Jackson was asked if he believes the new offense will highlight different parts of his game than the Ravens have highlighted in the past and his response was “less running and more throwing.” “Absolutely. Especially with the receivers we have. . . . Just being able to throw the ball down the field. Running can only take you so far,” Jackson said. “I feel like with this new era of teams and offenses in the league, I feel like we need that, and coach Todd Monken, what I’m seeing in this offense so far, it’s tremendous.”

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...ning-and-more-throwing-in-new-ravens-offense/

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Sarah Ellison
@sgellison
Lamar Jackson said that Todd Monken is giving him "the keys to the offense." "You can change things when you want to. You see the defense, and it's not looking right to you. You see some guy blitzing, you might want your WR to do something different. Coach is giving you the freewill to do whatever you want to."

---

Lamar & Order: RPO
@moneymarlo44
Lamar Jackson on Todd Monkens offense: “It’s crazy & unique. I’m excited but you should talk to the receivers, I’ve never seen them this happy. Those boys are about to eat!”

 

[JohnnyU]

Jackson was asked if he believes the new offense will highlight different parts of his game than the Ravens have highlighted in the past and his response was “less running and more throwing.” “Absolutely. Especially with the receivers we have. . . . Just being able to throw the ball down the field. Running can only take you so far,” Jackson said. “I feel like with this new era of teams and offenses in the league, I feel like we need that, and coach Todd Monken, what I’m seeing in this offense so far, it’s tremendous.”

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...ning-and-more-throwing-in-new-ravens-offense/

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Bleacher Report predicts 2023 stat line for Ravens QB Lamar Jackson

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Ravens QB Lamar Jackson says he's 'loving' new offense under Todd Monken

How Many Wins Is a NFL Coach Worth? Rating Impact of Biggest Coaching Staff Changes

Todd Monken, Baltimore Ravens​

2022 Record: 10-7
Projected 2023 Record: 13-4
Difference: +3
...The additions of Odell Beckham Jr. and first-round rookie Zay Flowers at wide receiver should go a long way to upgrading what was one of the league's worst position groups. Plus, a healthy Rashod Bateman returns after last year's season-ending foot injury.
Monken's vertical-based passing attack will help stretch the field and create even more opportunities for everyone in Baltimore's offense.

 

[Chaka]

I'm not entirely sold on Monken. I know Dirk "Never met a pass play I didn't Love!" Koetter was the HC in Tampa Bay when Monken was OC but his offenses were horribly unbalanced in favor of the pass.

I don't think having a 63:37 run pass ratio leads to some kind of stellar outcome for Lamar or the Ravens IRL or in magic football. I like Lamar but he's not Mahomes or Brady and the receiver room, IMO, still has too many question marks to know if it is significantly upgraded. I'd love them to go after Hopkins.

I'd like to see a ratio closer to 55:45 to have confidence in the Ravens offense. I don't know if that's Monken's style.

It's one thing when you're going 37-3 and rolling Directional State Poly-Tech out of Sanford Stadium with a dozen future first round defenders on your roster. Doing it in tight games @ Pittsburgh & Cincinnati is something else entirely.

 

[humpback]

I'm not entirely sold on Monken. I know Dirk "Never met a pass play I didn't Love!" Koetter was the HC in Tampa Bay when Monken was OC but his offenses were horribly unbalanced in favor of the pass.

I don't think having a 63:37 run pass ratio leads to some kind of stellar outcome for Lamar or the Ravens IRL or in magic football. I like Lamar but he's not Mahomes or Brady and the receiver room, IMO, still has too many question marks to know if it is significantly upgraded. I'd love them to go after Hopkins.

I'd like to see a ratio closer to 55:45 to have confidence in the Ravens offense. I don't know if that's Monken's style.

It's one thing when you're going 37-3 and rolling Directional State Poly-Tech out of Sanford Stadium with a dozen future first round defenders on your roster. Doing it in tight games @ Pittsburgh & Cincinnati is something else entirely.

I think you have your run/pass numbers reversed but regardless one pro for Monken is that he's run several types of offenses before. I don't agree that his offenses were horribly unbalanced, for instance his first year in Tampa they were near the bottom of the league in pass/run ratio and in his one year in Cleveland they were middle of the pack, and I highly doubt he's going to air it out with Lamar "just because". He knows Lamar isn't Mahomes or Brady so it'll probably be a modest uptick in passing with hopefully better results/more efficiency.

Injuries could potentially put a damper on things but on paper, there's no denying that this passing offense should be much improved.

 

[Chaka]

I'm not entirely sold on Monken. I know Dirk "Never met a pass play I didn't Love!" Koetter was the HC in Tampa Bay when Monken was OC but his offenses were horribly unbalanced in favor of the pass.

I don't think having a 63:37 run pass ratio leads to some kind of stellar outcome for Lamar or the Ravens IRL or in magic football. I like Lamar but he's not Mahomes or Brady and the receiver room, IMO, still has too many question marks to know if it is significantly upgraded. I'd love them to go after Hopkins.

I'd like to see a ratio closer to 55:45 to have confidence in the Ravens offense. I don't know if that's Monken's style.

It's one thing when you're going 37-3 and rolling Directional State Poly-Tech out of Sanford Stadium with a dozen future first round defenders on your roster. Doing it in tight games @ Pittsburgh & Cincinnati is something else entirely.

I think you have your run/pass numbers reversed but regardless one pro for Monken is that he's run several types of offenses before. I don't agree that his offenses were horribly unbalanced, for instance his first year in Tampa they were near the bottom of the league in pass/run ratio and in his one year in Cleveland they were middle of the pack, and I highly doubt he's going to air it out with Lamar "just because". He knows Lamar isn't Mahomes or Brady so it'll probably be a modest uptick in passing with hopefully better results/more efficiency.

Injuries could potentially put a damper on things but on paper, there's no denying that this passing offense should be much improved.

Yes, they were reversed. He was a 63:37 pass:run guy in his final two years in TB. I think most of that was Koetter but I hated it then and I worry about it now.

Hopefully you're correct that he is flexible.

I think they will be improved but I'm having trouble figuring out how to handicap what Monken might do and the impact of a recovering OBJ and a tiny Flowers.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

and the impact of a recovering OBJ and a tiny Flowers.

Don’t forget about this guy (their WR1)

6’1”, 200 lb, 4.39 40

 

[humpback]

I'm not entirely sold on Monken. I know Dirk "Never met a pass play I didn't Love!" Koetter was the HC in Tampa Bay when Monken was OC but his offenses were horribly unbalanced in favor of the pass.

I don't think having a 63:37 run pass ratio leads to some kind of stellar outcome for Lamar or the Ravens IRL or in magic football. I like Lamar but he's not Mahomes or Brady and the receiver room, IMO, still has too many question marks to know if it is significantly upgraded. I'd love them to go after Hopkins.

I'd like to see a ratio closer to 55:45 to have confidence in the Ravens offense. I don't know if that's Monken's style.

It's one thing when you're going 37-3 and rolling Directional State Poly-Tech out of Sanford Stadium with a dozen future first round defenders on your roster. Doing it in tight games @ Pittsburgh & Cincinnati is something else entirely.

I think you have your run/pass numbers reversed but regardless one pro for Monken is that he's run several types of offenses before. I don't agree that his offenses were horribly unbalanced, for instance his first year in Tampa they were near the bottom of the league in pass/run ratio and in his one year in Cleveland they were middle of the pack, and I highly doubt he's going to air it out with Lamar "just because". He knows Lamar isn't Mahomes or Brady so it'll probably be a modest uptick in passing with hopefully better results/more efficiency.

Injuries could potentially put a damper on things but on paper, there's no denying that this passing offense should be much improved.

Yes, they were reversed. He was a 63:37 pass:run guy in his final two years in TB. I think most of that was Koetter but I hated it then and I worry about it now.

Hopefully you're correct that he is flexible.

I think they will be improved but I'm having trouble figuring out how to handicap what Monken might do and the impact of a recovering OBJ and a tiny Flowers.

You can't only count 2 years. In his 4 years as an NFL OC, his teams have finished 23, 3, 6, and 18 in pass/run ratio. There's nothing there that should worry anyone and it seems to pretty clearly show that he is indeed flexible.

You're leaving out a ton of players/injuries, like Bateman, Dobbins, Gus, Lamar himself, Andrews, another year for Likely, Stanley, etc. Obviously we don't know that they'll all stay healthy (very likely they won't), but it's hard to imagine their availability not being at least a bit improved.

And while Flowers has size concerns, he is stronger than their leading WR from Lamar's MVP season. This offense, on paper, is much better than that one.

 

[Chaka]

I'm not entirely sold on Monken. I know Dirk "Never met a pass play I didn't Love!" Koetter was the HC in Tampa Bay when Monken was OC but his offenses were horribly unbalanced in favor of the pass.

I don't think having a 63:37 run pass ratio leads to some kind of stellar outcome for Lamar or the Ravens IRL or in magic football. I like Lamar but he's not Mahomes or Brady and the receiver room, IMO, still has too many question marks to know if it is significantly upgraded. I'd love them to go after Hopkins.

I'd like to see a ratio closer to 55:45 to have confidence in the Ravens offense. I don't know if that's Monken's style.

It's one thing when you're going 37-3 and rolling Directional State Poly-Tech out of Sanford Stadium with a dozen future first round defenders on your roster. Doing it in tight games @ Pittsburgh & Cincinnati is something else entirely.

I think you have your run/pass numbers reversed but regardless one pro for Monken is that he's run several types of offenses before. I don't agree that his offenses were horribly unbalanced, for instance his first year in Tampa they were near the bottom of the league in pass/run ratio and in his one year in Cleveland they were middle of the pack, and I highly doubt he's going to air it out with Lamar "just because". He knows Lamar isn't Mahomes or Brady so it'll probably be a modest uptick in passing with hopefully better results/more efficiency.

Injuries could potentially put a damper on things but on paper, there's no denying that this passing offense should be much improved.

Yes, they were reversed. He was a 63:37 pass:run guy in his final two years in TB. I think most of that was Koetter but I hated it then and I worry about it now.

Hopefully you're correct that he is flexible.

I think they will be improved but I'm having trouble figuring out how to handicap what Monken might do and the impact of a recovering OBJ and a tiny Flowers.

You can't only count 2 years. In his 4 years as an NFL OC, his teams have finished 23, 3, 6, and 18 in pass/run ratio. There's nothing there that should worry anyone and it seems to pretty clearly show that he is indeed flexible.

You're leaving out a ton of players/injuries, like Bateman, Dobbins, Gus, Lamar himself, Andrews, another year for Likely, Stanley, etc. Obviously we don't know that they'll all stay healthy (very likely they won't), but it's hard to imagine their availability not being at least a bit improved.

And while Flowers has size concerns, he is stronger than their leading WR from Lamar's MVP season. This offense, on paper, is much better than that one.

Getting Andrews right will be a big benefit for sure. What can we really say about Bateman? He has played in 18 games, starting 9 over two seasons. We have no idea if he's any good.

The run game doesn't concern me so much, it should be improved but they seemed to milk some production out of a bunch of guys over the past two seasons. I haven't see a breakdown of NFL running games when you remove QB yardage but when you have Lamar, the running game should be credible.

I think the key factor is Stanley even more so than the WRs. The o-line during Lamar's MVP season was incredibly strong. Orlando Brown & Marshall Yanda were Pro Bowlers and Stanley was a 1st team All-Pro. They are okay on the line without Stanley but if he's healthy, the biggest if of anyone on the roster, he can be a true difference maker.

 

[Chaka]

and the impact of a recovering OBJ and a tiny Flowers.

Don’t forget about this guy (their WR1)

6’1”, 200 lb, 4.39 40

18 games played, 9 starts 61 catches, 800 yards, 3 TDs.

Hooray???

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

18 games played, 9 starts 61 catches, 800 yards, 3 TDs.

Hooray???

Prototypical X WR who’s only 23 & was drafted in the 1st round, who’s been injured.

Being willfully obtuse is no way to win at FF.

 

[Chaka]

18 games played, 9 starts 61 catches, 800 yards, 3 TDs.

Hooray???

Prototypical X WR who’s only 23 & was drafted in the 1st round, who’s been injured.

Being willfully obtuse is no way to win at FF.

Do I need to go over the list of "prototypical X WRs...drafted in the 1st round..." who never amounted to anything?

I know you are super excited about him (shiny new toy and all) and I didn't say he was bad or anything close to that. I am pointing out he hasn't done much in two seasons and now he has more competition for targets.

That's not obtuse, willfully or otherwise.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

18 games played, 9 starts 61 catches, 800 yards, 3 TDs.

Hooray???

Prototypical X WR who’s only 23 & was drafted in the 1st round, who’s been injured.

Being willfully obtuse is no way to win at FF.

Do I need to go over the list of "prototypical X WRs...drafted in the 1st round..." who never amounted to anything?

I know you are super excited about him (shiny new toy and all) and I didn't say he was bad or anything close to that. I am pointing out he hasn't done much in two seasons and now he has more competition for targets.

That's not obtuse, willfully or otherwise.

I’ve actually been excited about him since he was drafted. This isn’t a shiny new toy I went to deal for - it’s a talented football player I bought low on. There’s a difference, and recency bias has nothing to do with it.

I just think it’s shortsighted to write the dude off because of 2 flukey, but significant injuries his 1st two seasons. FF managers all seem to have zero patience for players like this. I used to be like that, and missed more than a few bargains.

He is big, fast, strong and has good hands. He hasn’t had a fall from grace, nor are his injuries expected to linger or recur. And when (briefly) healthy, he was hyper targeted & produced.

He’s every bit the talent they drafted in the 1st round, and IMO superior to either OBJ or Flowers.

Your suggestion that his games played = reason to not be excited comes off as either willfully ignore or disingenuous - that was my point. Yea, he missed time. And now he’s healthy. Maybe look ahead instead of behind.

There’s a lot of reason to get excited about him IMO.

 

[humpback]

I'm not entirely sold on Monken. I know Dirk "Never met a pass play I didn't Love!" Koetter was the HC in Tampa Bay when Monken was OC but his offenses were horribly unbalanced in favor of the pass.

I don't think having a 63:37 run pass ratio leads to some kind of stellar outcome for Lamar or the Ravens IRL or in magic football. I like Lamar but he's not Mahomes or Brady and the receiver room, IMO, still has too many question marks to know if it is significantly upgraded. I'd love them to go after Hopkins.

I'd like to see a ratio closer to 55:45 to have confidence in the Ravens offense. I don't know if that's Monken's style.

It's one thing when you're going 37-3 and rolling Directional State Poly-Tech out of Sanford Stadium with a dozen future first round defenders on your roster. Doing it in tight games @ Pittsburgh & Cincinnati is something else entirely.

I think you have your run/pass numbers reversed but regardless one pro for Monken is that he's run several types of offenses before. I don't agree that his offenses were horribly unbalanced, for instance his first year in Tampa they were near the bottom of the league in pass/run ratio and in his one year in Cleveland they were middle of the pack, and I highly doubt he's going to air it out with Lamar "just because". He knows Lamar isn't Mahomes or Brady so it'll probably be a modest uptick in passing with hopefully better results/more efficiency.

Injuries could potentially put a damper on things but on paper, there's no denying that this passing offense should be much improved.

Yes, they were reversed. He was a 63:37 pass:run guy in his final two years in TB. I think most of that was Koetter but I hated it then and I worry about it now.

Hopefully you're correct that he is flexible.

I think they will be improved but I'm having trouble figuring out how to handicap what Monken might do and the impact of a recovering OBJ and a tiny Flowers.

You can't only count 2 years. In his 4 years as an NFL OC, his teams have finished 23, 3, 6, and 18 in pass/run ratio. There's nothing there that should worry anyone and it seems to pretty clearly show that he is indeed flexible.

You're leaving out a ton of players/injuries, like Bateman, Dobbins, Gus, Lamar himself, Andrews, another year for Likely, Stanley, etc. Obviously we don't know that they'll all stay healthy (very likely they won't), but it's hard to imagine their availability not being at least a bit improved.

And while Flowers has size concerns, he is stronger than their leading WR from Lamar's MVP season. This offense, on paper, is much better than that one.

Getting Andrews right will be a big benefit for sure. What can we really say about Bateman? He has played in 18 games, starting 9 over two seasons. We have no idea if he's any good.

The run game doesn't concern me so much, it should be improved but they seemed to milk some production out of a bunch of guys over the past two seasons. I haven't see a breakdown of NFL running games when you remove QB yardage but when you have Lamar, the running game should be credible.

I think the key factor is Stanley even more so than the WRs. The o-line during Lamar's MVP season was incredibly strong. Orlando Brown & Marshall Yanda were Pro Bowlers and Stanley was a 1st team All-Pro. They are okay on the line without Stanley but if he's healthy, the biggest if of anyone on the roster, he can be a true difference maker.

No one is saying Bateman is a sure fire stud, but having him back (presumably) healthy obviously would be a positive for the offense compared to not having him healthy. He's a 1st round pick heading into his 3rd year and he did have a decent start to the year last year before the injury. Same with a healthy Dobbins and Gus- yes, their run game has been fine without them, but having them healthy would be an upgrade to more than fine.

Compared to previous years, on paper this offense should be much better (if healthy).

 

[massraider]

I think that just getting wider will matter. More speed, bigger plays.

That last dude had everything really bunched up