QB Lamar Jackson, BAL (1 Viewer)

[Stoneworker]

I take it you are a big Raven fan that wants Jackson to return, he probably will be back

I thought it was a crazy stat I had never seen before.

It is also massively misleading the way it was presented.

The stat by age completely ignores games played, the most obvious case being Mahomes (who only played only one game his rookie year). And also Stafford who was injured half his first year and missed almost his entire third year).

For example, if you normalize and look at first three full seasons played, Mahomes has 118 total TD's vs. Lamar 87 total TD's. With Mahomes playing one fewer game.

Quite a different story when apples to apples.

Lamar is a great player no doubt and deserves a big contract but that stat was meaningless.

 

[massraider]

Lamar is a great player no doubt and deserves a big contract but that stat was meaningless

Nah

 

[Faust]

ESPN's Dan Graziano reports teams could prefer a more "traditional trade" of Lamar Jackson if he decides he is no longer interested in playing for the Ravens.​

Graziano notes in an article over at ESPN that teams are interested in pursuing Jackson via trade if he wants out of Baltimore, but that it's unlikely a team submits a formal offer sheet for Jackson at this time. Since Jackson received the non-exclusive franchise tag from the Ravens last Tuesday, there have been more reports about teams who are out on him rather than teams who would sign him to a fully-guaranteed contract in exchange for two first-round picks. Graziano also adds that the legal tampering period that's set to begin on Monday will not permit teams to talk to Jackson. Monday's legal tampering period allows teams to speak early to agents, but because Jackson is without an agent, any negotiations that may take place between him and a potential suitor will have to wait until Wednesday when the new league year officially begins.
SOURCE: ESPN
Mar 12, 2023, 11:57 AM ET

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Colts need to be taking a good look at what it would take to bring in Lamar

Excellent post

Daniel Jeremiah
@MoveTheSticks
If I’m Indy, here’s the million dollar question— would you rather spend the 4th pick on the 4th best QB in the class or trade that pick and next year’s 1 for Lamar Jackson. Obviously, the money is drastically different but I still think it’s an easy call.
------------------------------------
Mina Kimes@minakimes
People are like a fully guaranteed contract is risky hey you know what else is risky TAKING THE FOURTH QB VS A KNOWN QUANTITY
Matt Miller@nfldraftscout
Man, I might even say this for Houston. You have two firsts this year!

 

[ghostguy123]

Colts need to be taking a good look at what it would take to bring in Lamar

Excellent post

Daniel Jeremiah
@MoveTheSticks
If I’m Indy, here’s the million dollar question— would you rather spend the 4th pick on the 4th best QB in the class or trade that pick and next year’s 1 for Lamar Jackson. Obviously, the money is drastically different but I still think it’s an easy call.
------------------------------------
Mina Kimes@minakimes
People are like a fully guaranteed contract is risky hey you know what else is risky TAKING THE FOURTH QB VS A KNOWN QUANTITY
Matt Miller@nfldraftscout
Man, I might even say this for Houston. You have two firsts this year!

Someone should tell Lamar's agent to work out a tag and trade............

 

[Summer Wheat]

Is some of this because it was felt Jackson quit on his team last season because of his contract issues?

I mean he under contract paying 20 million a year and did not attend the Cinci game to be on the sidelines to help out or cheer his team on.

Might have been a good look on his part to at least be on the sidelines and act like he cared about the team for that game, even if he did not.

 

[ChiefD]

The Chiefs won the Super Bowl this year fellas.

 

[Jakey]

Is some of this because it was felt Jackson quit on his team last season because of his contract issues?

I mean he under contract paying 20 million a year and did not attend the Cinci game to be on the sidelines to help out or cheer his team on.

Might have been a good look on his part to at least be on the sidelines and act like he cared about the team for that game, even if he did not.

I think 99.9% of this is his style of play and the unfavorable projection of that beyond a couple few years.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Is some of this because it was felt Jackson quit on his team last season because of his contract issues?

I mean he under contract paying 20 million a year and did not attend the Cinci game to be on the sidelines to help out or cheer his team on.

Might have been a good look on his part to at least be on the sidelines and act like he cared about the team for that game, even if he did not.

I just made a sizable offer to the Lamar owner in my 16 team league. Im hoping the negativity & public perception is making folks nervous.

Keep going

 

[travdogg]

So, random thought, I know we mentioned NE earlier as a bit of a sleeper team to be in the Lamar sweepstakes, but what about the Vikings?

Cousins is in the last year of his deal, and there has been a lot of talk that he's not the long term guy, which is understandable as he's gonna be 35 next season. The Vikings 2 1sts likely wouldn't be all that high, as they won the division this past year, and are still the favorites to win it again (with Cousins or Lamar I think), if they designate Harrison Smith and Dalvin Cook as post June 1st guys they save 25 million against the cap. Z'Darius Smith could save them 12 million right now. While those losses would be felt, none of them are long term starters for them, and are all on the downswing.

Add trading Cousins, and you'd have the money to add Lamar, extend Hockenson, extend Jefferson, and all you'd be out are some aging players, and 2 1sts. While securing your long term offensive nucleus, plus you'd probably get a reasonable amount for Cousins, and maybe for Z.Smith too.

Just an idea.

 

[King of the Jungle]

So, random thought, I know we mentioned NE earlier as a bit of a sleeper team to be in the Lamar sweepstakes, but what about the Vikings?

Cousins is in the last year of his deal, and there has been a lot of talk that he's not the long term guy, which is understandable as he's gonna be 35 next season. The Vikings 2 1sts likely wouldn't be all that high, as they won the division this past year, and are still the favorites to win it again (with Cousins or Lamar I think), if they designate Harrison Smith and Dalvin Cook as post June 1st guys they save 25 million against the cap. Z'Darius Smith could save them 12 million right now. While those losses would be felt, none of them are long term starters for them, and are all on the downswing.

Add trading Cousins, and you'd have the money to add Lamar, extend Hockenson, extend Jefferson, and all you'd be out are some aging players, and 2 1sts. While securing your long term offensive nucleus, plus you'd probably get a reasonable amount for Cousins, and maybe for Z.Smith too.

Just an idea.

This would be terrifying news for Jefferson owners.

 

[Tau837]

So, random thought, I know we mentioned NE earlier as a bit of a sleeper team to be in the Lamar sweepstakes, but what about the Vikings?

Cousins is in the last year of his deal, and there has been a lot of talk that he's not the long term guy, which is understandable as he's gonna be 35 next season. The Vikings 2 1sts likely wouldn't be all that high, as they won the division this past year, and are still the favorites to win it again (with Cousins or Lamar I think), if they designate Harrison Smith and Dalvin Cook as post June 1st guys they save 25 million against the cap. Z'Darius Smith could save them 12 million right now. While those losses would be felt, none of them are long term starters for them, and are all on the downswing.

Add trading Cousins, and you'd have the money to add Lamar, extend Hockenson, extend Jefferson, and all you'd be out are some aging players, and 2 1sts. While securing your long term offensive nucleus, plus you'd probably get a reasonable amount for Cousins, and maybe for Z.Smith too.

Just an idea.

This is an interesting example of how complicated it would be to get this done and adjust the roster around Jackson. Assuming this occurs prior to the 2023 draft:

1. Include Cousins in trade. If pre-6/1, incurs $18.75M in 2023 dead money but clears $17.5M against 2023 cap. If post-6/1, incurs $6.25M in 2023 dead money and $12.5M in 2024 dead money and clears $30M against 2023 cap.
2. Release Cook and H Smith as post-6/1 cuts. Combined, incurs $9M in 2023 dead money and $10.9M in 2024 dead money and clears $24.2M against 2023 cap.
3. Release Z Smith as a pre-6/1 cut. Incurs $3.3M in 2023 dead money but clears $12.1M against 2023 cap.
4. Agree to terms on a contract with Jackson.

That is 4 starters, 2 first round picks, and an expensive contract for Jackson, along with dead cap money in 2024.

Jackson replaces Cousins, but, as you say, the other three losses will be felt. Especially Z Smith, who hasn't shown evidence of being on the downswing yet -- he played 822 snaps last season and had the 14th highest PFF grade among all edge players and the second highest PFF grade of his career.

Agree the other two are in decline, but they played 891 (Cooks) and 984 (Smith) snaps, and it might not be easy to replace them with similar caliber play. Especially since the Vikings would only have 4 draft picks remaining -- one 3rd, one 4th, one 5th, one 6th. They might get another 6th round comp pick, according to OTC.

Another problem with this is that Cousins has a no trade clause for 2023, so he would have to agree to any trade. This suggests to me that this would mean the Vikings would have to go the route of a trade rather than signing Jackson to an offer sheet. That is a viable path, but it would require notifying Cousins, and then it might not work out, which could be awkward.

Does Jackson offer enough of an upgrade over Cousins to make all of this worthwhile? I'm sure most people would say yes, if only due to the fact that Jackson is about 9 years younger. I'm not sure doing all of this substantially improves Minnesota's chances of winning a Super Bowl in 2023. Beyond that, who knows?

I don't follow the Vikings, so there might be some things I missed that might bear on this. Just thought it was interesting.

 

[Gally]

While I don't think Lamar is terrible at passing the way the offense would need to be retooled would diminish the impact that Jefferson would make in games. That would be minimizing the Vikes current best offensive weapon. Lamar has to be the center of the offense if he is going to "earn" his money. I am also of the belief that Cousins is perfectly fine and can win a Super Bowl on the right team and that the Vikes are close to being that team. Their defensive philosophy last year really held them back and I have much bigger expectations wtih Flores running the defense this coming year.

In the end I think this would be a lateral (or slightly lessening) move for the team so I wouldn't want to see it happen.

 

[-OZ-]

So, random thought, I know we mentioned NE earlier as a bit of a sleeper team to be in the Lamar sweepstakes, but what about the Vikings?

Cousins is in the last year of his deal, and there has been a lot of talk that he's not the long term guy, which is understandable as he's gonna be 35 next season. The Vikings 2 1sts likely wouldn't be all that high, as they won the division this past year, and are still the favorites to win it again (with Cousins or Lamar I think), if they designate Harrison Smith and Dalvin Cook as post June 1st guys they save 25 million against the cap. Z'Darius Smith could save them 12 million right now. While those losses would be felt, none of them are long term starters for them, and are all on the downswing.

Add trading Cousins, and you'd have the money to add Lamar, extend Hockenson, extend Jefferson, and all you'd be out are some aging players, and 2 1sts. While securing your long term offensive nucleus, plus you'd probably get a reasonable amount for Cousins, and maybe for Z.Smith too.

Just an idea.

This is an interesting example of how complicated it would be to get this done and adjust the roster around Jackson. Assuming this occurs prior to the 2023 draft:

1. Include Cousins in trade. If pre-6/1, incurs $18.75M in 2023 dead money but clears $17.5M against 2023 cap. If post-6/1, incurs $6.25M in 2023 dead money and $12.5M in 2024 dead money and clears $30M against 2023 cap.
2. Release Cook and H Smith as post-6/1 cuts. Combined, incurs $9M in 2023 dead money and $10.9M in 2024 dead money and clears $24.2M against 2023 cap.
3. Release Z Smith as a pre-6/1 cut. Incurs $3.3M in 2023 dead money but clears $12.1M against 2023 cap.
4. Agree to terms on a contract with Jackson.

That is 4 starters, 2 first round picks, and an expensive contract for Jackson, along with dead cap money in 2024.

Jackson replaces Cousins, but, as you say, the other three losses will be felt. Especially Z Smith, who hasn't shown evidence of being on the downswing yet -- he played 822 snaps last season and had the 14th highest PFF grade among all edge players and the second highest PFF grade of his career.

Agree the other two are in decline, but they played 891 (Cooks) and 984 (Smith) snaps, and it might not be easy to replace them with similar caliber play. Especially since the Vikings would only have 4 draft picks remaining -- one 3rd, one 4th, one 5th, one 6th. They might get another 6th round comp pick, according to OTC.

Another problem with this is that Cousins has a no trade clause for 2023, so he would have to agree to any trade. This suggests to me that this would mean the Vikings would have to go the route of a trade rather than signing Jackson to an offer sheet. That is a viable path, but it would require notifying Cousins, and then it might not work out, which could be awkward.

Does Jackson offer enough of an upgrade over Cousins to make all of this worthwhile? I'm sure most people would say yes, if only due to the fact that Jackson is about 9 years younger. I'm not sure doing all of this substantially improves Minnesota's chances of winning a Super Bowl in 2023. Beyond that, who knows?

I don't follow the Vikings, so there might be some things I missed that might bear on this. Just thought it was interesting.

The thought of Lamar in Minnesota is interesting but for those reasons, plus I’d think Lamar would be disinclined to play home games on turf if he can avoid it.

 

[zeeshan2]

[Ellison] Adam Schefter gives the most details yet on Ravens’ offer to Lamar Jackson last yr: Fully gtd at signing: $133M Injury gtd: $175M Total gtd: $200M “Those guarantees were way more than what Kyler Murray got from AZ. Way more than Russell Wilson.”

 

[BassNBrew]

There are still guys 30+ at WR that are still viable options . . . Adams, Lockett, Allen, Hopkins, Thielen. Next year, Diggs, Evans, Cupp, and Cooks will all be 30. That's 10 receivers that will be 30+

Will be. Please do some research on this. And please try and see the difference between "contributing" and clearly serious decline. I don't have time to post everything I've been studying on this topic for the last few years.

I will, but don't have time now.

Thank you and I'd be happy to discuss this later in it's own thread. Like preferably in June when we got nothing else to talk about.

I had a few minutes and not surprisingly you were right about the recent few seasons (and my memory from 10-20 years ago wasn't off by much). Here are the number of 30+ year old players that scored 100+ fantasy points each season in standard fantasy scoring. That's roughly the Top 40 at either position.

    RB    WR
2022    4    4
2021    1    3
2020    2    5
2019    2    6
2018    1    7
2017    3    4
2016    6    10
2015    7    6
2014    4    10
2013    5    9
2012    2    9
2011    2    11
2010    2    8
2009    4    11
2008    5    10
2007    3    11
2006    4    12
2005    7    14
2004    6    13
2003    9    10
2002    7    13
2001    5    13
2000    3    8
1999    4    10
1998    2    10
1997    1    10

Would you please start a new thread and tag me when you do. I find this fascinating

 

[Tau837]

[Ellison] Adam Schefter gives the most details yet on Ravens’ offer to Lamar Jackson last yr: Fully gtd at signing: $133M Injury gtd: $175M Total gtd: $200M “Those guarantees were way more than what Kyler Murray got from AZ. Way more than Russell Wilson.”

What a surprise…

 

[Grahamburn]

That's an exceptional contract offer.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

That's an exceptional contract offer.

I’m not sure what to believe or not - probably depends on which sources story comes from - but it’s hard to believe he would turn that down. Although based on what @menobrown has been saying it seems like some of those guarantees aren’t really guaranteed. Its negotiations though for both sides and can’t blame either yet.

I heard today that other teams can’t actually negotiate with him until Wednesday. By then a lot of teams will be settled, and some will be looking at the draft. I think it’s going to be him staying in Baltimore- maybe even on the tag.

 

[menobrown]

That's an exceptional contract offer.

I’m not sure what to believe or not - probably depends on which sources story comes from - but it’s hard to believe he would turn that down. Although based on what @menobrown has been saying it seems like some of those guarantees aren’t really guaranteed. Its negotiations though for both sides and can’t blame either yet.

I heard today that other teams can’t actually negotiate with him until Wednesday. By then a lot of teams will be settled, and some will be looking at the draft. I think it’s going to be him staying in Baltimore- maybe even on the tag.

That's almost the exact details I've been trying to say in here, almost exactly as speculated by Joel Corry and Josina Anderson.

Only the $133m is fully guranteed but the key is the total amount of full guaranteed pay($133M) and not fullly guaranteed pay ($175M) were both more then Kyler and Wilson in total as well as above what both got as a percentage of the total contract, which was also more then they both got.

The Ravens did not insult Lamar by offering him less then those two as so many tried to say. He got more then them in every way.

 

[-OZ-]

That's an exceptional contract offer.

I’m not sure what to believe or not - probably depends on which sources story comes from - but it’s hard to believe he would turn that down. Although based on what @menobrown has been saying it seems like some of those guarantees aren’t really guaranteed. Its negotiations though for both sides and can’t blame either yet.

I heard today that other teams can’t actually negotiate with him until Wednesday. By then a lot of teams will be settled, and some will be looking at the draft. I think it’s going to be him staying in Baltimore- maybe even on the tag.

That's almost the exact details I've been trying to say in here, almost exactly as speculated by Joel Corry and Josina Anderson.

Only the $133m is fully guranteed but the key is the total amount of full guaranteed pay($133M) and not guaranteed pay ($175M) were both more then Kyler and Wilson in total as well as above what both got as a percentage of the total contract, which was also more then they both got.

The Ravens did not insult Lamar by offering him less then those two as so many tried to say. He got more then them in every way.

Almost makes one think he wants to leave.

 

[ghostguy123]

That's an exceptional contract offer.

I’m not sure what to believe or not - probably depends on which sources story comes from - but it’s hard to believe he would turn that down. Although based on what @menobrown has been saying it seems like some of those guarantees aren’t really guaranteed. Its negotiations though for both sides and can’t blame either yet.

I heard today that other teams can’t actually negotiate with him until Wednesday. By then a lot of teams will be settled, and some will be looking at the draft. I think it’s going to be him staying in Baltimore- maybe even on the tag.

That's almost the exact details I've been trying to say in here, almost exactly as speculated by Joel Corry and Josina Anderson.

Only the $133m is fully guranteed but the key is the total amount of full guaranteed pay($133M) and not guaranteed pay ($175M) were both more then Kyler and Wilson in total as well as above what both got as a percentage of the total contract, which was also more then they both got.

The Ravens did not insult Lamar by offering him less then those two as so many tried to say. He got more then them in every way.

Almost makes one think he wants to leave.

Well, when one leaves, one tends to get more money.

 

[Deamon]

What teams are even left? Atlanta?

 

[ghostguy123]

What teams are even left? Atlanta?

There's probably 10 teams that could realistically trade for him, if they did a tag and trade.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

What teams are even left? Atlanta?

Atlanta, New England and Indianapolis, maybe.

 

[-OZ-]

What teams are even left? Atlanta?

Atlanta, New England and Indianapolis, maybe.

Did Washington get a QB?
Green Bay? Trade love to Baltimore

 

[Dr. Octopus]

What teams are even left? Atlanta?

Atlanta, New England and Indianapolis, maybe.

Did Washington get a QB?
Green Bay? Trade love to Baltimore

I think DC homers are saying their embattled owner doesn’t have the cash and has already borrowed against the team - but yes otherwise they make sense.
Green Bay will, and should, give Love his shot.

 

[Grahamburn]

That's an exceptional contract offer.

I’m not sure what to believe or not - probably depends on which sources story comes from - but it’s hard to believe he would turn that down. Although based on what @menobrown has been saying it seems like some of those guarantees aren’t really guaranteed. Its negotiations though for both sides and can’t blame either yet.

I heard today that other teams can’t actually negotiate with him until Wednesday. By then a lot of teams will be settled, and some will be looking at the draft. I think it’s going to be him staying in Baltimore- maybe even on the tag.

That's almost the exact details I've been trying to say in here, almost exactly as speculated by Joel Corry and Josina Anderson.

Only the $133m is fully guranteed but the key is the total amount of full guaranteed pay($133M) and not guaranteed pay ($175M) were both more then Kyler and Wilson in total as well as above what both got as a percentage of the total contract, which was also more then they both got.

The Ravens did not insult Lamar by offering him less then those two as so many tried to say. He got more then them in every way.

Almost makes one think he wants to leave.

Well, when one leaves, one tends to get more money.

Sometimes it doesn't matter what you offer. People just want a change. A new path or challenge. I'm sure pro athletes get stuck in a rut just like anyone else.

 

[ghostguy123]

That's an exceptional contract offer.

I’m not sure what to believe or not - probably depends on which sources story comes from - but it’s hard to believe he would turn that down. Although based on what @menobrown has been saying it seems like some of those guarantees aren’t really guaranteed. Its negotiations though for both sides and can’t blame either yet.

I heard today that other teams can’t actually negotiate with him until Wednesday. By then a lot of teams will be settled, and some will be looking at the draft. I think it’s going to be him staying in Baltimore- maybe even on the tag.

That's almost the exact details I've been trying to say in here, almost exactly as speculated by Joel Corry and Josina Anderson.

Only the $133m is fully guranteed but the key is the total amount of full guaranteed pay($133M) and not guaranteed pay ($175M) were both more then Kyler and Wilson in total as well as above what both got as a percentage of the total contract, which was also more then they both got.

The Ravens did not insult Lamar by offering him less then those two as so many tried to say. He got more then them in every way.

Almost makes one think he wants to leave.

Well, when one leaves, one tends to get more money.

Sometimes it doesn't matter what you offer. People just want a change. A new path or challenge. I'm sure pro athletes get stuck in a rut just like anyone else.

That is possible, sure.
The best way to get a raise is to switch teams. Chances are another team will pay more than your current team.

 

[fatness]

Are we suddenly believing Adam Schefter has reverted to being an objective reporter, instead of a "I'll get this published first" mouthpiece for different agents, players, and teams?

Adam Schefter gives the most details yet on Ravens’ offer to Lamar Jackson last yr: Fully gtd at signing: $133M Injury gtd: $175M Total gtd: $200M “Those guarantees were way more than what Kyler Murray got from AZ. Way more than Russell Wilson.”

 

[kface]

It feels like the Ravens have all the power now. He's making a very comparatively low salary on the franchise, nobody is going to pull him away and if he gets injured this year his power to negotiate is absolutely cooked.

 

[Grahamburn]

It feels like the Ravens have all the power now. He's making a very comparatively low salary on the franchise, nobody is going to pull him away and if he gets injured this year his power to negotiate is absolutely cooked.

That’s true enough, but players rarely perform well if they’re unhappy with their contract. The Ravens may be able to keep him on the tag, but I doubt they’ll reach their goals as a team.

 

[kface]

It feels like the Ravens have all the power now. He's making a very comparatively low salary on the franchise, nobody is going to pull him away and if he gets injured this year his power to negotiate is absolutely cooked.

That’s true enough, but players rarely perform well if they’re unhappy with their contract. The Ravens may be able to keep him on the tag, but I doubt they’ll reach their goals as a team.

Probably hurts lamar more than them i suspect...

 

[Da Guru]

It feels like the Ravens have all the power now. He's making a very comparatively low salary on the franchise, nobody is going to pull him away and if he gets injured this year his power to negotiate is absolutely cooked.

Looks like the Ravens offer was more than fair and Jackson would have been set for 5 lives.

 

[Godsbrother]

It feels like the Ravens have all the power now. He's making a very comparatively low salary on the franchise, nobody is going to pull him away and if he gets injured this year his power to negotiate is absolutely cooked.

That’s true enough, but players rarely perform well if they’re unhappy with their contract. The Ravens may be able to keep him on the tag, but I doubt they’ll reach their goals as a team.

It's unlikely but Jackson could pull a Le'Veon Bell and choose to hold out.

 

[Tau837]

It feels like the Ravens have all the power now. He's making a very comparatively low salary on the franchise, nobody is going to pull him away and if he gets injured this year his power to negotiate is absolutely cooked.

That’s true enough, but players rarely perform well if they’re unhappy with their contract. The Ravens may be able to keep him on the tag, but I doubt they’ll reach their goals as a team.

It's unlikely but Jackson could pull a Le'Veon Bell and choose to hold out.

That would be dumber than anything he has done to date.

 

[kface]

It feels like the Ravens have all the power now. He's making a very comparatively low salary on the franchise, nobody is going to pull him away and if he gets injured this year his power to negotiate is absolutely cooked.

That’s true enough, but players rarely perform well if they’re unhappy with their contract. The Ravens may be able to keep him on the tag, but I doubt they’ll reach their goals as a team.

It's unlikely but Jackson could pull a Le'Veon Bell and choose to hold out.

That would be dumber than anything he has done to date.

I would not put it past him... I bet he's thinking about it but that's pure speculation on my part

 

[Ministry of Pain]

It feels like the Ravens have all the power now. He's making a very comparatively low salary on the franchise, nobody is going to pull him away and if he gets injured this year his power to negotiate is absolutely cooked.

That’s true enough, but players rarely perform well if they’re unhappy with their contract. The Ravens may be able to keep him on the tag, but I doubt they’ll reach their goals as a team.

It's unlikely but Jackson could pull a Le'Veon Bell and choose to hold out.

What do you consider holding out?
Because according to the NFLPA, the same one that has had a direct path to his ear the entire time with no agent as a go between...
But according to the agreement in place, Jackson without any penalty whatsoever can wait until 3 days prior to kick off Week 1 before he signs the tag
I don't need to tell you that would harpoon the entire season with a new OC taking over and this story dominating all summer long
I also don't need to remind you that once the Draft is over and we move into Mid-May, teams can start making offers with their '24 and '25 1st Rd picks, that will change everything IMHO.

One more thing to add and I will need feedback from others BUT...can't a team make a big offer, push in the chips with their 1st Rd picks and also do something creative with the contract where it will fit easily into their cap for 2023? (Say a $1M salary like the Browns gave Watson in '22) Knowing they will make sacrifices in '24 and '25 but also have the cap rising from $225M to an estimated $287M by '25, that is going to get some juices flowing in front offices.

 

[-OZ-]

I fully expect something to come down in the next week or two.

 

[Tau837]

It feels like the Ravens have all the power now. He's making a very comparatively low salary on the franchise, nobody is going to pull him away and if he gets injured this year his power to negotiate is absolutely cooked.

That’s true enough, but players rarely perform well if they’re unhappy with their contract. The Ravens may be able to keep him on the tag, but I doubt they’ll reach their goals as a team.

It's unlikely but Jackson could pull a Le'Veon Bell and choose to hold out.

What do you consider holding out?
Because according to the NFLPA, the same one that has had a direct path to his ear the entire time with no agent as a go between...
But according to the agreement in place, Jackson without any penalty whatsoever can wait until 3 days prior to kick off Week 1 before he signs the tag
I don't need to tell you that would harpoon the entire season with a new OC taking over and this story dominating all summer long
I also don't need to remind you that once the Draft is over and we move into Mid-May, teams can start making offers with their '24 and '25 1st Rd picks, that will change everything IMHO.

One more thing to add and I will need feedback from others BUT...can't a team make a big offer, push in the chips with their 1st Rd picks and also do something creative with the contract where it will fit easily into their cap for 2023? (Say a $1M salary like the Browns did in '22) Knowing they will make sacrifices in '24 and '25 but also have the cap rising from $225M to an estimated $287M by '25, that is going to get some juices flowing in front offices.

He referenced Leveon Bell, so I think what he meant was the Jackson could do what Bell did. Bell did not sign his tag and sat out the entire 2018 season. It was an incredibly dumb move on his part, sacrificing more than $14M that he never made back.

I assume Jackson is smarter than that and would not consider sitting out the 2023 season.

Yes, of course, whatever team signs him, whether Baltimore or another team, can and probably will structure his contract to have a lower cap hit in 2023 than in the later years.

 

[Godsbrother]

It feels like the Ravens have all the power now. He's making a very comparatively low salary on the franchise, nobody is going to pull him away and if he gets injured this year his power to negotiate is absolutely cooked.

That’s true enough, but players rarely perform well if they’re unhappy with their contract. The Ravens may be able to keep him on the tag, but I doubt they’ll reach their goals as a team.

It's unlikely but Jackson could pull a Le'Veon Bell and choose to hold out.

What do you consider holding out?
Because according to the NFLPA, the same one that has had a direct path to his ear the entire time with no agent as a go between...
But according to the agreement in place, Jackson without any penalty whatsoever can wait until 3 days prior to kick off Week 1 before he signs the tag
I don't need to tell you that would harpoon the entire season with a new OC taking over and this story dominating all summer long
I also don't need to remind you that once the Draft is over and we move into Mid-May, teams can start making offers with their '24 and '25 1st Rd picks, that will change everything IMHO.

One more thing to add and I will need feedback from others BUT...can't a team make a big offer, push in the chips with their 1st Rd picks and also do something creative with the contract where it will fit easily into their cap for 2023? (Say a $1M salary like the Browns did in '22) Knowing they will make sacrifices in '24 and '25 but also have the cap rising from $225M to an estimated $287M by '25, that is going to get some juices flowing in front offices.

He referenced Leveon Bell, so I think what he meant was the Jackson could do what Bell did. Bell did not sign his tag and sat out the entire 2018 season. It was an incredibly dumb move on his part, sacrificing more than $14M that he never made back.

I assume Jackson is smarter than that and would not consider sitting out the 2023 season.

Yes, of course, whatever team signs him, whether Baltimore or another team, can and probably will structure his contract to have a lower cap hit in 2023 than in the later years.

Yes I was suggesting that he may try to go the same route as Bell did and sit out the entire season. Obviously a horrible decision on Bell's part but Jackson may look at Deshaun Watson sitting out in 2021 and still getting the huge contract with guaranteed money. I personally do not think Jackson is as foolish as Bell but he may feel that if he plays under the tag in 2023 and suffers a career ending injury he will only get the $34 million, rather than the $200 he supposedly wants.

I think it much more likely that he goes the route that MoP laid out: delay signing the tender until the last minute (there really isn't much incentive for him to sign it any sooner). This is not what the Ravens want. It would be best for both parts to split the difference wherever they left off negotiations and get the deal done.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

It feels like the Ravens have all the power now. He's making a very comparatively low salary on the franchise, nobody is going to pull him away and if he gets injured this year his power to negotiate is absolutely cooked.

That’s true enough, but players rarely perform well if they’re unhappy with their contract. The Ravens may be able to keep him on the tag, but I doubt they’ll reach their goals as a team.

It's unlikely but Jackson could pull a Le'Veon Bell and choose to hold out.

What do you consider holding out?
Because according to the NFLPA, the same one that has had a direct path to his ear the entire time with no agent as a go between...
But according to the agreement in place, Jackson without any penalty whatsoever can wait until 3 days prior to kick off Week 1 before he signs the tag
I don't need to tell you that would harpoon the entire season with a new OC taking over and this story dominating all summer long
I also don't need to remind you that once the Draft is over and we move into Mid-May, teams can start making offers with their '24 and '25 1st Rd picks, that will change everything IMHO.

One more thing to add and I will need feedback from others BUT...can't a team make a big offer, push in the chips with their 1st Rd picks and also do something creative with the contract where it will fit easily into their cap for 2023? (Say a $1M salary like the Browns did in '22) Knowing they will make sacrifices in '24 and '25 but also have the cap rising from $225M to an estimated $287M by '25, that is going to get some juices flowing in front offices.

He referenced Leveon Bell, so I think what he meant was the Jackson could do what Bell did. Bell did not sign his tag and sat out the entire 2018 season. It was an incredibly dumb move on his part, sacrificing more than $14M that he never made back.

I assume Jackson is smarter than that and would not consider sitting out the 2023 season.

Yes, of course, whatever team signs him, whether Baltimore or another team, can and probably will structure his contract to have a lower cap hit in 2023 than in the later years.

Yes I was suggesting that he may try to go the same route as Bell did and sit out the entire season. Obviously a horrible decision on Bell's part but Jackson may look at Deshaun Watson sitting out in 2021 and still getting the huge contract with guaranteed money. I personally do not think Jackson is as foolish as Bell but he may feel that if he plays under the tag in 2023 and suffers a career ending injury he will only get the $34 million, rather than the $200 he supposedly wants.

I think it much more likely that he goes the route that MoP laid out: delay signing the tender until the last minute (there really isn't much incentive for him to sign it any sooner). This is not what the Ravens want. It would be best for both parts to split the difference wherever they left off negotiations and get the deal done.

There were reports and whispers that the Ravens were more than a little surprised that Jackson never took the field again after Week 11/12, whenever he went down with the injury.
It sounded like a leak where a team was trying to hurt the character of their star player to weaken his market, I'm not sure I believe any of it but the Ravens did not IR him as I recall.

-The Ravens at some point would understand that he isn't that interested in '23 and beyond if he waits until after training camp to sign his tag. I would hope it doesn't get that far and I also would hope my Miami Dolphins would trade '24 and '25 for him, pay him $1M salary with a big signing. bonus and let's GO!

I'm not the most unbiased of folks when it comes to Jackson right now. I want to see a team make a run for him and watch what happens. Not sure we have seen this potential chess move prior in the NFL when it comes to star Quarterbacks coming off their rookie deals.

This will set up other QBs in the future and how contract negotiations are handled.

 

[kface]

It feels like the Ravens have all the power now. He's making a very comparatively low salary on the franchise, nobody is going to pull him away and if he gets injured this year his power to negotiate is absolutely cooked.

That’s true enough, but players rarely perform well if they’re unhappy with their contract. The Ravens may be able to keep him on the tag, but I doubt they’ll reach their goals as a team.

It's unlikely but Jackson could pull a Le'Veon Bell and choose to hold out.

What do you consider holding out?
Because according to the NFLPA, the same one that has had a direct path to his ear the entire time with no agent as a go between...
But according to the agreement in place, Jackson without any penalty whatsoever can wait until 3 days prior to kick off Week 1 before he signs the tag
I don't need to tell you that would harpoon the entire season with a new OC taking over and this story dominating all summer long
I also don't need to remind you that once the Draft is over and we move into Mid-May, teams can start making offers with their '24 and '25 1st Rd picks, that will change everything IMHO.

One more thing to add and I will need feedback from others BUT...can't a team make a big offer, push in the chips with their 1st Rd picks and also do something creative with the contract where it will fit easily into their cap for 2023? (Say a $1M salary like the Browns did in '22) Knowing they will make sacrifices in '24 and '25 but also have the cap rising from $225M to an estimated $287M by '25, that is going to get some juices flowing in front offices.

He referenced Leveon Bell, so I think what he meant was the Jackson could do what Bell did. Bell did not sign his tag and sat out the entire 2018 season. It was an incredibly dumb move on his part, sacrificing more than $14M that he never made back.

I assume Jackson is smarter than that and would not consider sitting out the 2023 season.

Yes, of course, whatever team signs him, whether Baltimore or another team, can and probably will structure his contract to have a lower cap hit in 2023 than in the later years.

Yes I was suggesting that he may try to go the same route as Bell did and sit out the entire season. Obviously a horrible decision on Bell's part but Jackson may look at Deshaun Watson sitting out in 2021 and still getting the huge contract with guaranteed money. I personally do not think Jackson is as foolish as Bell but he may feel that if he plays under the tag in 2023 and suffers a career ending injury he will only get the $34 million, rather than the $200 he supposedly wants.

I think it much more likely that he goes the route that MoP laid out: delay signing the tender until the last minute (there really isn't much incentive for him to sign it any sooner). This is not what the Ravens want. It would be best for both parts to split the difference wherever they left off negotiations and get the deal done.

There were reports and whispers that the Ravens were more than a little surprised that Jackson never took the field again after Week 11/12, whenever he went down with the injury.
It sounded like a leak where a team was trying to hurt the character of their star player to weaken his market, I'm not sure I believe any of it but the Ravens did not IR him as I recall.

-The Ravens at some point would understand that he isn't that interested in '23 and beyond if he waits until after training camp to sign his tag. I would hope it doesn't get that far and I also would hope my Miami Dolphins would trade '24 and '25 for him, pay him $1M salary with a big signing. bonus and let's GO!

I'm not the most unbiased of folks when it comes to Jackson right now. I want to see a team make a run for him and watch what happens. Not sure we have seen this potential chess move prior in the NFL when it comes to star Quarterbacks coming off their rookie deals.

This will set up other QBs in the future and how contract negotiations are handled.

Hard to tell for sure but he had a grade 3 PCL sprain. Look at Mahones on the ankle, even Purdy came back in the game when he couldn't throw the ball without extreme pain.

The guy sat out what appears to be an unnatural amount of time for a PCL strain. Is he that reliant on his legs that he couldn't come back and just throw the ball instead of run every play? he is a starting QB in the NFL asking for the most money a QB has ever gotten and he couldn't play in the playoffs on a slightly bum knee?

 

[Tau837]

I think it much more likely that he goes the route that MoP laid out: delay signing the tender until the last minute (there really isn't much incentive for him to sign it any sooner). This is not what the Ravens want. It would be best for both parts to split the difference wherever they left off negotiations and get the deal done.

It would shock me if he went the same route as Bell. That situation is all negative for him:

• He would forego making $32M and will never get that earning year back
• His rights would still belong to Baltimore up until next year's tag deadline, so they could just tag him again and be right back in this situation
• He would lose a year in his prime, which means losing a shot at honors/awards, statistics (if he cares), and, most importantly, winning a championship
• He would hurt his franchise and teammates; I could see him wanting to hurt the Ravens franchise over this, but this would only further damage his reputation IMO

So I agree that it is much more likely he signs the tag sooner or later.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Deshaun Watson sitting out in 2021

Watson was paid while he was sitting out.

 

[menobrown]

Lamar on the twitters trying to push back on idea he needs an agent by insinuating he was offered $133m/3 fully guaranteed.

If true, he needs an agent worse then he realizes if if he thinks coming in less then Watson in APY and total guarantees constitutes victory.

 

[Birdie048]

I think it much more likely that he goes the route that MoP laid out: delay signing the tender until the last minute (there really isn't much incentive for him to sign it any sooner). This is not what the Ravens want. It would be best for both parts to split the difference wherever they left off negotiations and get the deal done.

It would shock me if he went the same route as Bell. That situation is all negative for him:

• He would forego making $32M and will never get that earning year back
• His rights would still belong to Baltimore up until next year's tag deadline, so they could just tag him again and be right back in this situation
• He would lose a year in his prime, which means losing a shot at honors/awards, statistics (if he cares), and, most importantly, winning a championship
• He would hurt his franchise and teammates; I could see him wanting to hurt the Ravens franchise over this, but this would only further damage his reputation IMO

So I agree that it is much more likely he signs the tag sooner or later.

How much of that matters if he is in another city on another team playing for a coach who sought him out?
Yeah, not the most intelligent situation Lamar has found himself in, but some of it is the NFLPA role in pushing "guarantees".
MoP has valid points on his expectation.

 

[The Duff Man]

Lamar on the twitters trying to push back on idea he needs an agent by insinuating he was offered $133m/3 fully guaranteed.

If true, he needs an agent worse then he realizes if if he thinks coming in less then Watson in APY and total guarantees constitutes victory.

Math is hard.

Getting MVP in the NFL is harder.

Unfortunately I am only good at the former. It does not seem like Lamar is good at the latter. I wish I could trade

 

[Tau837]

I think it much more likely that he goes the route that MoP laid out: delay signing the tender until the last minute (there really isn't much incentive for him to sign it any sooner). This is not what the Ravens want. It would be best for both parts to split the difference wherever they left off negotiations and get the deal done.

It would shock me if he went the same route as Bell. That situation is all negative for him:

• He would forego making $32M and will never get that earning year back
• His rights would still belong to Baltimore up until next year's tag deadline, so they could just tag him again and be right back in this situation
• He would lose a year in his prime, which means losing a shot at honors/awards, statistics (if he cares), and, most importantly, winning a championship
• He would hurt his franchise and teammates; I could see him wanting to hurt the Ravens franchise over this, but this would only further damage his reputation IMO

So I agree that it is much more likely he signs the tag sooner or later.

How much of that matters if he is in another city on another team playing for a coach who sought him out?
Yeah, not the most intelligent situation Lamar has found himself in, but some of it is the NFLPA role in pushing "guarantees".
MoP has valid points on his expectation.

The scenario I was talking about was him sitting out 2023 and being back in this situation a year from now. How NFL owners and front offices view him going that route could absolutely negatively impact his reputation and thus his market.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Math is hard.

You're not kidding