QB Lamar Jackson, BAL (7 Viewers)

[humpback]

I don't like the look of myself beating around the bush on this issue. I'm going to just state it openly.

I think Lamar gets judged by a different standard simply because he's black.

I know people will deny this vehemently and I could be wrong, absolutely.

I am happy to hear about why it isn't a fact but I want the hear the counter from the position of why Josh Allen is treated as a top 3 QB (Mahomes, Burrow) and Lamar isn't.

I was waiting for the race card to be played. I knew that was being fished for. Isn’t Mahomes considered black? Jalen Hurts? Isn’t he a MVP candidate?

Sure, but even in this thread it was commented on that Hurts did not have an elite year as a passer.

It's not fishing, the reason I decided to state it openly is I didn't want to be seen as fishing.

For whatever reason Lamar is being judged by a different standard. Personally I don't believe it has to do with his, alleged, contract demands.

That's because he didn't. On what planet is 3701 yards (10th) and 22 TDs (14th) "elite"? Hurts had an elite season overall, but not as a passer. Similar to how Lamar is one of the best QBs overall, but not so much a passer.

Peculiar how you leave out Mahomes again. I guess when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.

I have repeatedly referred.to Mahomes as the #1 QB in the league in this thread. And?

Hurts threw 460 passes this season, good for 16th in the league. He was 10th in comp % and 3rd in y/a. Let him throw 600 and are we having this conversation?

"And" he's black. So if the guy who is universally viewed as the best (passing) QB in the game is black, maybe, just maybe, the discussion around the other QBs is about something, anything, other than race?

If/when he does throw 600 times we can talk about it. Just look at your phrasing again there- "let him", as if the Eagles are deliberately suppressing his elite passing skills because he's black. Again, maybe, just maybe, the people who do this for a living and have seen tens of thousands of reps have determined that this system is what actually accentuates their skillsets, puts them in the best position to succeed, and gives their teams the best chance at winning?

But no, it must be race.

 

[Ghost Rider]

The Ravens are 29-21 and have one playoff win. Jackson has started 39 of those 50 games.

That's nice. They're also 26-13 with Lamar over that span.

I'm fine with the durability question, honestly it's the only one that remotely holds water. And even that one is thin at best.

Maybe let him pass ~130 times more and run ~50 fewer times less per season and we have a different durability outcome.

Many don't think Jackson would be close to an elite QB if you took running out of his game (or removed much of it) and he had to rely on just passing.

But you appear dug in with your stance about any doubts about him being about race, and I have zero interest in going down the rabbit hole, so I will tap it out and just read this thread for the time being.

 

[habsfan]

For me this comes down to the difficulty of trying to delineate between how "elite" a player is and how much risk is involved in giving them guaranteed money. If we're just going to debate how good Allen is versus Jackson and we're going to pay players based on how good they are, fine. I assume teams don't do that but maybe I'm wrong.

When Allen runs I don't hold my breath until he gets up. When he puts his shoulder into a defender, I expect him to get up. That's the single biggest difference for me. But QBs are expensive. Lamar will get paid and he'll earn it but people will hold their breath until he gets up.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

The 2018 draft.

1​	Baker Mayfield​

3 Sam Darnold

7​	Josh Allen​

10​	Josh Rosen​

32​	Lamar Jackson​

Lamar was NOT SEEN as good/equal/on the same level as the 4 QBs taken before him in that draft and fell to the bottom of the first round.
Hmmm, all of those people making projections. One GM made a few trades to draft him later because he knew the other QBs would go before his guy.
Hall of Fame tight end Ozzie Newsome was the GM of the Ravens that drafted Jackson but knew the rest of the league devalued him and that Lamar would fall in the draft so he traded down TWO TIMES from 16 to 22 and then back from 22 to 25 and even then knew Jackson would fall so he took TE Hayden Hurst BEFORE moving back into the first round to select Jackson.
-------------------------------------------------------
The Ravens' Lamar Jackson NFL Draft story is a perfect blend of sneakiness and risk-taking
...Newsome, "secretly loved" the QB from Louisville.
...We were hoping the phone was gonna ring, starting at 16."

Thanks to the Bills, the phone did ring, and Baltimore in a trade with Buffalo moved back to No. 22. "We get to 22, and all of the players we liked are still there,” DeCosta said. "So we traded again."

The Ravens utilized a deal with the Titans to move back to No. 25, where they selected tight end Hayden Hurst, a player DeCosta said they "loved.
...DeCosta told King the league-wide doubt surrounding Jackson's prospects as an NFL QB was helpful. (Looking at you, Bill Polian). The Ravens also felt confident they could land Jackson thanks to their sneaky approach to evaluating him prior to the draft.
...As the end of the first round neared, Newsome and DeCosta decided it was time to make a move. They called Howie Roseman, GM of the Super Bowl-champion Eagles and owner of the No. 32 overall pick, who was willing to trade back to No. 52 as long as the Ravens gave up their 2019 second-round pick in addition to their 2018 second-rounder.
To the surprise of everybody but Newsome and DeCosta, the Eagles and Ravens had a deal. Baltimore traded into the last pick of the first round and selected Jackson.
... “I think it’s probably the first time in my 24 years that you could hear cheering outside the draft room. You could hear the coaches and you could hear the scouts. That was a powerful moment for us."
--------------------------------
Hmmmn, wonder why Ozzie Newsome, the only NFL GM who saw Lamar Jackson worthy of a first round pick?

Ozzie Newsome Was the Most Important GM of His Generation
...the first black general manager in NFL history,

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Jalen Hurts? Isn’t he a MVP candidate?

Didn't Jackson win one?

 

[Bracie Smathers]

the league-wide doubt surrounding Jackson's prospects as an NFL QB was helpful. (Looking at you, Bill Polian).

I don't believe a single NFL GM said that any of the four QBs taken ahead of Lamar Jackson should 'switch to WR' but one said Lamar Jackson should forget about making it as an NFL QB and make the switch.
-------------------------------
Bill Polian finally admits he was wrong to say Lamar Jackson should switch from quarterback to receiver
..."I was wrong, because I used the old, traditional quarterback standard with him, which is clearly why John Harbaugh and Ozzie Newsome were more prescient than I was," Polian
...It turns out being a ridiculous athlete is actually beneficial to a quarterback. Who could've known?
"The definition has changed, no question," Polian said, in a quote that reflects how the league can sometimes be so resistant to change, especially when it comes to less traditional methods of playing quarterback. "What he's doing is amazing."
Jackson's immediate and sustained success continues to make what Polian said in February 2018 look all the more foolish.
"I think wide receiver. Exceptional athlete. Exceptional ability to make you miss. Exceptional acceleration. Exceptional instinct with the ball in his hand -- and that's rare for wide receivers," Polian told ESPN Radio at the time. "[Antonio Brown] and who else? Name me another one who's like that. Julio [Jones]'s not like that. This guy is incredible in the open field. Great ability to separate. Short and a little bit slight and clearly, clearly not the thrower the other guys are.
"The accuracy isn't there. Don't wait to make that change. Don't be like the kid from Ohio State [Terrelle Pryor] and be 29 when you make that change."
...Polian was hardly the only person in the NFL community to think Jackson's game wouldn't translate to the next level. At the combine, the Chargers even asked Jackson if he was going to work out as a receiver.
...why is he going to miss. You don't make a living as a quarterback running in the National Football League," Polian said at the time. "Cam [Newton] is the exception.

 

[Da Guru]

The 2018 draft.

​

1​	Baker Mayfield​

3 Sam Darnold

​

7​	Josh Allen​

​

10​	Josh Rosen​

​

32​	Lamar Jackson​

Lamar was NOT SEEN as good/equal/on the same level as the 4 QBs taken before him in that draft and fell to the bottom of the first round.
Hmmm, all of those people making projections. One GM made a few trades to draft him later because he knew the other QBs would go before his guy.
Hall of Fame tight end Ozzie Newsome was the GM of the Ravens that drafted Jackson but knew the rest of the league devalued him and that Lamar would fall in the draft so he traded down TWO TIMES from 16 to 22 and then back from 22 to 25 and even then knew Jackson would fall so he took TE Hayden Hurst BEFORE moving back into the first round to select Jackson.
-------------------------------------------------------
The Ravens' Lamar Jackson NFL Draft story is a perfect blend of sneakiness and risk-taking
...Newsome, "secretly loved" the QB from Louisville.
...We were hoping the phone was gonna ring, starting at 16."

Thanks to the Bills, the phone did ring, and Baltimore in a trade with Buffalo moved back to No. 22. "We get to 22, and all of the players we liked are still there,” DeCosta said. "So we traded again."

The Ravens utilized a deal with the Titans to move back to No. 25, where they selected tight end Hayden Hurst, a player DeCosta said they "loved.
...DeCosta told King the league-wide doubt surrounding Jackson's prospects as an NFL QB was helpful. (Looking at you, Bill Polian). The Ravens also felt confident they could land Jackson thanks to their sneaky approach to evaluating him prior to the draft.
...As the end of the first round neared, Newsome and DeCosta decided it was time to make a move. They called Howie Roseman, GM of the Super Bowl-champion Eagles and owner of the No. 32 overall pick, who was willing to trade back to No. 52 as long as the Ravens gave up their 2019 second-round pick in addition to their 2018 second-rounder.
To the surprise of everybody but Newsome and DeCosta, the Eagles and Ravens had a deal. Baltimore traded into the last pick of the first round and selected Jackson.
... “I think it’s probably the first time in my 24 years that you could hear cheering outside the draft room. You could hear the coaches and you could hear the scouts. That was a powerful moment for us."
--------------------------------
Hmmmn, wonder why Ozzie Newsome, the only NFL GM who saw Lamar Jackson worthy of a first round pick?

Ozzie Newsome Was the Most Important GM of His Generation
...the first black general manager in NFL history,

Not sure I buy that any GM knows any certain player will rise or fall in the first rd as it only takes one team to ruin your plans.

If the Ravens liked Jackson so much why would they risk taking Hurst in front of him at 25 and waiting 7 spots and risk losing a QB they loved? They value of a quality starting QB over a starting TE is dramatic. So was that a smart or stupid move to wait?

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Not sure I buy that any GM knows any certain player will rise or fall in the first rd as it only takes one team to ruin your plans.

Newsome didn't know?
Why would he have a deal in place BEFORE if he had no clue?
---------------------------------
...Newsome and DeCosta, the Eagles and Ravens had a deal. Baltimore traded into the last pick of the first round and selected Jackson.

"We didn’t share what we were going to try and do with anybody," DeCosta said. "Drafts are strange like that. It’s just Ozzie and me at the end of the table, the only ones who really know. When you’re trying to make a decision as important as that, you try and keep it as quiet as you can. Because it’s not that you don’t want to share it with people, but the downside — which would be losing the player — is much greater than the upside of sharing the information with somebody that you care about."

If the Ravens liked Jackson so much why would they risk taking Hurst in front of him at 25 and waiting 7 spots and risk losing a QB they loved? They value of a quality starting QB over a starting TE is dramatic. So was that a smart or stupid move to wait?

I've heard this picayune take so many times.
Perception is fact when setting or paying value.
If you know other teams value other players hat you do not, they'll pay a premium like the Jets did in trading up for Darnold or the Bills did in trading up for Allen.
If you know other teams do not value a player that you do, then why on God's green earth would you pay a premium for a player that you know will fall and where you can not only get that player, but you can also land a player valued higher by all teams?
Try to make anything close to a logical argument for paying a premium when you don't have to? Because people keep repeating this opaque take without any connection to reality so just make that logical argument for making a gormless decision that makes no sense.

 

[Judge Smails]

If we don’t quit talking about race all the time, we will always be talking about race.

We have not spoken about race for, virtually the entire existence of this country. I am skeptical that speaking about it now will cause a major setback.

We can speak about it all you want; I just think you are way off base here. Look at the recent QB contracts affecting the Lamar negotiations... see any similarities? Not in ability either because Lamar is better than ALL of them.

I cannot believe for a second that the color of Lamar's skin affects the way he is perceived (or not being perceived) as an elite QB. Fact is he did not finish on his feet for two seasons in a row. That's a red flag for some.

If Deshaun Watson was white, would he have gotten half a billion guaranteed? What about Mahomes? Maybe the full billion if he looked like Zack Wilson. Come on.

I am not speaking of his contract, dude is going to bank. Book it.

I am not even suggesting people don't view him as an elite QB overall.

I am speaking about how he is viewed as a QB. The conversation about him is essentially "great running QB but..." Then some eyeball test commentary about his ability, or lack thereof, as a passer. I think the suggestion that he doesn't stack up as a passer with his peers is highly suspect. And I think Josh Allen and the way he is perceived is the perfect WTF comparison.

I think Jalen Hurts is viewed the same way despite his clear elite passing season this year. Although, to be fair one year does not a career make. In 2021 he was a tremendous liability as a passer. Book is still open there. But it isn't really on Lamar.

I think the Ravens new OC hire is the most interesting storyline of this off-season so far.

Lamar can make passing plays, especially with his play action freezing linebackers. He has a strong arm and can connect deep. But he’s nowhere near the elite throwers in this league. He lacks touch. He often lacks arc on intermediate throws. He’s not very accurate. He’s a video game type wildcard on offense. No doubt about it. But he’s not a top 15 pure passer in this league.

 

[Chaka]

No doubt about it. But he’s not a top 15 pure passer in this league.

Is Josh Allen?

 

[Chaka]

"And" he's black. So if the guy who is universally viewed as the best (passing) QB in the game is black, maybe, just maybe, the discussion around the other QBs is about something, anything, other than race?

First off, I appreciate the measured response. Talking race on a message board, or anywhere else is fraught with pitfalls.

Hey, maybe it is about something other than race. I doubt people think "He sucks as a passer because he's black", well I am sure some do but I don't think that is driving the narrative.

This was merely a question that crossed my mind when I was comparing the career stats of Lamar and Josh Allen. There is nothing in the base numbers or the advanced breakdown (using PFR) that suggests Allen is a superior passer than Lamar. But that is just the raw data, everything after that is subjective and subjectively the two QBs are viewed very differently. Maybe that is changing a little with Allen's latest playoff exit but I don't see much chatter in that direction yet. But, yes I do wonder if people unintentionally (or intentionally) view him through the lens of a black QB and not simply a QB.

You're right, we can't know what we don't know so until we see Lamar throw 600 times in a season we simply won't know. But we know a little bit because he was on pace for 584 attempts in 2021, (his numbers pro-rated to 4,400 yards & 26 TDs along with 1,178 rushing) but he didn't finish that year, so we don't know. Durability is absolutely an issue after the past two seasons but I haven't seen anyone knock Lamar's passing because of durability.

Like I said, so far this early offseason IMO the most interesting storyline to follow is who will be the Ravens new OC. I hope they get a true QB guru type. A Sean Payton on Parcells staff type.

 

[Tau837]

This was merely a question that crossed my mind when I was comparing the career stats of Lamar and Josh Allen.

When we talk about narratives for Allen and Jackson today:

• Their career arcs are different even though both have been in the league for 5 seasons. Allen really didn't emerge as a top QB until his 3rd season, and he has been better than Jackson since then, in part due to Jackson missing games due to injuries. Jackson had his best season in his 2nd season and has not come close to repeating that performance in the 3 seasons since, again in part due to missing games due to injuries.
• QB narratives also tend to talk about winning and playoffs. Allen's team is 37-12 in the past 3 regular seasons, made the playoffs 3 times, and won at least one playoff game in each of those seasons, all while Allen was their best player and started every game. Jackson has also been the best player for the Ravens during that span, but his regular season record is 26-13 in that span, and his team's record is 29-21, missing the playoffs in 2021 and 2022. This comparison favors Allen by a healthy margin.
• You said you didn't see data that shows Allen to be an appreciably better passer than Jackson. Consider their PFF passing grades and ranks among QBs with at least 100 dropbacks in the respective seasons:
  • 2020 - Allen 87.9 (#6), Jackson 74.9 (#17)
  • 2021 - Allen 81.9 (#9), Jackson 65.9 (#25)
  • 2022 - Allen 85.8 (#3), Jackson 72.3 (#17)

Those are not close comparisons on the PFF grades. I suspect there is more data that favors Allen over the past 3 seasons, but I don't have time to look it up right now.

I know some will probably say it's not fair to look only at the past 3 seasons because it leaves out Jackson's best season in 2019. I totally get that. But... that was 4 seasons ago. It just doesn't matter as much to these narratives as the more recent seasons. We live in a world that constantly asks "what have you done for me lately?"

And I don't think anything I have posted has anything to do with race.

 

[Da Guru]

Not sure I buy that any GM knows any certain player will rise or fall in the first rd as it only takes one team to ruin your plans.

Newsome didn't know?
Why would he have a deal in place BEFORE if he had no clue?
---------------------------------
...Newsome and DeCosta, the Eagles and Ravens had a deal. Baltimore traded into the last pick of the first round and selected Jackson.

"We didn’t share what we were going to try and do with anybody," DeCosta said. "Drafts are strange like that. It’s just Ozzie and me at the end of the table, the only ones who really know. When you’re trying to make a decision as important as that, you try and keep it as quiet as you can. Because it’s not that you don’t want to share it with people, but the downside — which would be losing the player — is much greater than the upside of sharing the information with somebody that you care about."

If the Ravens liked Jackson so much why would they risk taking Hurst in front of him at 25 and waiting 7 spots and risk losing a QB they loved? They value of a quality starting QB over a starting TE is dramatic. So was that a smart or stupid move to wait?

I've heard this picayune take so many times.
Perception is fact when setting or paying value.
If you know other teams value other players hat you do not, they'll pay a premium like the Jets did in trading up for Darnold or the Bills did in trading up for Allen.
If you know other teams do not value a player that you do, then why on God's green earth would you pay a premium for a player that you know will fall and where you can not only get that player, but you can also land a player valued higher by all teams?
Try to make anything close to a logical argument for paying a premium when you don't have to? Because people keep repeating this opaque take without any connection to reality so just make that logical argument for making a gormless decision that makes no sense.

I understand that thought, but reality is at the NFL draft nobody really knows if others teams really don`t value a player or are bluffing.

Like Dacosta said "We don`t share what we are going to do with anybody" Other teams do the same.

The reason they were so happy is that he was still there. Had Jackson been drafted in between it would have backfired. So this time it worked out.

Bottom line is If Ravens thought Jackson was a steal at 32 then he was a steal at 25. It is moot now anyway.

 

[Tanner9919]

Lamar Jackson sucks as a passer because he sucks as a passer, Ray Charles could see this and he's not only blind, but he's also dead. Danny Dimes sucks. So does Baker Mayfield, Tim Couch, and 90 other white QBs Cleveland once trotted out there, or Derrick Carr, or dare I say Kirk Cousins , or Carson Wentz, or Mac friggin Jones. Or Browning Nagle, or Giants' Dave Brown, or Teddy Bridgewater, or Chad Henne.
you can either play the game or you can't, everyone I mentioned can't play the damn game.
who the hell would bring a person's skin color into this anyways? what kind of race-baiting d-bag does that?? it's all about talent , and coaching . Marc Rypien had a cup of coffee as the best QB in the game for 3-4 years. Same with Rich Gannon, a career backup. Doug Williams had one of the greatest seasons ever he wasn't anything special otherwise.

Lamar Jackson faked his injury - ok he was hurt-maybe. but then sat down like many college kids opting out of the championship games. jackson opted out. clearly he quit on the team.
has nothing to do with skin color he protected his assets ( i.e., his legs) by not playing. and that should cost him dearly with contracts. if I'm a GM I'm not signing him. never. he's shown all the self-centered nonsense in a player that I would never take on.

 

[Dizzy]

I would like to see Lamar paired up with a bonafide WR1... A.J. Brown type, proven, stud WR. This has to be a priority for BAL if they plan on signing Jackson long term. Tee Higgins for example would be interesting in BAL.

HIs style of play is unsustainable. He's already finished the last two seasons in street clothes. I'm trying to picture BAL paying Jackson $200 million knowing that his days as a scary runner are numbered (if not already past) and no killer WRs on the roster. The punishment adds up fast on run-heavy QBs... we're even seeing it with the invincible Josh Allen. He good be heading for Cam Newtonville if they can't develop a running game.

 

[Judge Smails]

No doubt about it. But he’s not a top 15 pure passer in this league.

Is Josh Allen?

1,000%. Josh had a weird year, no doubt. He threw some unbelievably bad picks. Many in the red zone. Dak like. Makes me question his reads sometimes. He's a big time risk taker. They aren't going to be an Alex Smith dink and dunk type team. It's about chunk plays. The Bills want to limit the picks in the red zone but they also realize 2 picks, 300+ yards passing and 3 TD's when you punt once or twice all game will still win games for them. He has a rocket of an arm and he makes throws that I think nobody else in the league can. Not Mahomes, not Burrow. Maybe Herbert. He is great at taking shots downfield and throwing in between levels. Light years between Allen and Jackson currently as passers. Not just talking stats. I'm talking about making the throws.

 

[Judge Smails]

Lamar Jackson sucks as a passer because he sucks as a passer, Ray Charles could see this and he's not only blind, but he's also dead. Danny Dimes sucks. So does Baker Mayfield, Tim Couch, and 90 other white QBs Cleveland once trotted out there, or Derrick Carr, or dare I say Kirk Cousins , or Carson Wentz, or Mac friggin Jones. Or Browning Nagle, or Giants' Dave Brown, or Teddy Bridgewater, or Chad Henne.
you can either play the game or you can't, everyone I mentioned can't play the damn game.
who the hell would bring a person's skin color into this anyways? what kind of race-baiting d-bag does that?? it's all about talent , and coaching . Marc Rypien had a cup of coffee as the best QB in the game for 3-4 years. Same with Rich Gannon, a career backup. Doug Williams had one of the greatest seasons ever he wasn't anything special otherwise.

Lamar Jackson faked his injury - ok he was hurt-maybe. but then sat down like many college kids opting out of the championship games. jackson opted out. clearly he quit on the team.
has nothing to do with skin color he protected his assets ( i.e., his legs) by not playing. and that should cost him dearly with contracts. if I'm a GM I'm not signing him. never. he's shown all the self-centered nonsense in a player that I would never take on.

Horrible take. People wondered whether Lamar would play it safe and not risk injury by not running. Remember that? And then he ran wild. To question his commitment is ridiculous. Loyalty goes both ways. What commitment did the Ravens show him? The analysts on NFL radio today said it perfectly. The Ravens screwed this up bad. Every team extends a franchise QB early in their rookie contract when they know they have their guy. They still have the rookie contract term but then have their guy locked up for years afterwards at a rate that will be discounted by the time the rookie deal plays out. The bar always goes up. Lamar won an MVP and playoff games in year 2 and 3. They didn't get a deal done. And now they are in a bind. They are done as a SB contender for years and years if they lose Lamar. All of the other options (Tyler Huntley? D. Carr?, etc) flat out suck and they know it. But hey - save a few bucks. You'd be a perfect GM for them.

 

[TartanLion]

Mentioned this before but since 2018 Lamar is 7th in the entire league in QB EPA on passes of 5-20 yards inside the hash marks so there’s some bad takes going on regarding his passing. I think I saw someone say that he has a good deep ball but is bad with intermediate passes in the middle. Literally the reverse is true, he’s weakest on deep balls to the outside but that could be partially a symptom of never having had a legit alpha receiver with height and great hands going deep

 

[massraider]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...son-turned-down-133-million-fully-guaranteed/

He'll make 100 million in two years of franchise tags, these don't seem to be guarantee numbers that would work.

 

[massraider]

Horrible take

Please don't feed the Tanners

 

[Summer Wheat]

Lamar Jackson sucks as a passer because he sucks as a passer, Ray Charles could see this and he's not only blind, but he's also dead. Danny Dimes sucks. So does Baker Mayfield, Tim Couch, and 90 other white QBs Cleveland once trotted out there, or Derrick Carr, or dare I say Kirk Cousins , or Carson Wentz, or Mac friggin Jones. Or Browning Nagle, or Giants' Dave Brown, or Teddy Bridgewater, or Chad Henne.
you can either play the game or you can't, everyone I mentioned can't play the damn game.
who the hell would bring a person's skin color into this anyways? what kind of race-baiting d-bag does that?? it's all about talent , and coaching . Marc Rypien had a cup of coffee as the best QB in the game for 3-4 years. Same with Rich Gannon, a career backup. Doug Williams had one of the greatest seasons ever he wasn't anything special otherwise.

Lamar Jackson faked his injury - ok he was hurt-maybe. but then sat down like many college kids opting out of the championship games. jackson opted out. clearly he quit on the team.
has nothing to do with skin color he protected his assets ( i.e., his legs) by not playing. and that should cost him dearly with contracts. if I'm a GM I'm not signing him. never. he's shown all the self-centered nonsense in a player that I would never take on.

Horrible take. People wondered whether Lamar would play it safe and not risk injury by not running. Remember that? And then he ran wild. To question his commitment is ridiculous. Loyalty goes both ways. What commitment did the Ravens show him? The analysts on NFL radio today said it perfectly. The Ravens screwed this up bad. Every team extends a franchise QB early in their rookie contract when they know they have their guy. They still have the rookie contract term but then have their guy locked up for years afterwards at a rate that will be discounted by the time the rookie deal plays out. The bar always goes up. Lamar won an MVP and playoff games in year 2 and 3. They didn't get a deal done. And now they are in a bind. They are done as a SB contender for years and years if they lose Lamar. All of the other options (Tyler Huntley? D. Carr?, etc) flat out suck and they know it. But hey - save a few bucks. You'd be a perfect GM for them.

It is obvious the Ravens don`t think Jackson is their long term guy. A tag won`t help because he will just sit out again at the end of the season. What is loyalty? I paying 23 million this season loyal? Ravens probably would not have beat the Chiefs, Bengals or maybe Bills with Jackson.

They have not won with him ,and he has not been able to finish a season last couple of years. So why get locked into a deal and be stuck like the Broncos and Cowboys are now. Even the Rams are with Stafford who is now banged up..but Stafford did win one.

Plus Jackson needs to get out of the AFC. Mahomes, Allen, possibly Herbert are all young and going to be around the next 6-8 seasons. Or longer than Jackson will probably last. Go to an NFC team.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

It is obvious the Ravens don`t think Jackson is their long term guy.

It is?

 

[Summer Wheat]

It is obvious the Ravens don`t think Jackson is their long term guy.

It is?

Time will tell. But both will probably have to budge some if a deal is to be done.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Time will tell.

You said it was "obvious"?

I haven't seen anything that the Ravens have done thus far which shows it's "obvious the Ravens don`t think Jackson is their long term guy." You can't make that statement and then say "Time will tell", since "time" could also see the Ravens signing him long term.

 

[Boston]

It is obvious the Ravens don`t think Jackson is their long term guy.

It is?

Agreed…if that was the case they would not have made that original offer…the questions appears to be guaranteed money and both sides have a point…Lamar sees what Watson got and wants the same and my guess is without an agent the Union is pushing him hard on this…for the Ravens they have legit concerns about that type of deal…not sure why so many need to dig their heels in and not realize this is about money…as it usually is.

 

[humpback]

"And" he's black. So if the guy who is universally viewed as the best (passing) QB in the game is black, maybe, just maybe, the discussion around the other QBs is about something, anything, other than race?

First off, I appreciate the measured response. Talking race on a message board, or anywhere else is fraught with pitfalls.

Hey, maybe it is about something other than race. I doubt people think "He sucks as a passer because he's black", well I am sure some do but I don't think that is driving the narrative.

This was merely a question that crossed my mind when I was comparing the career stats of Lamar and Josh Allen. There is nothing in the base numbers or the advanced breakdown (using PFR) that suggests Allen is a superior passer than Lamar. But that is just the raw data, everything after that is subjective and subjectively the two QBs are viewed very differently. Maybe that is changing a little with Allen's latest playoff exit but I don't see much chatter in that direction yet. But, yes I do wonder if people unintentionally (or intentionally) view him through the lens of a black QB and not simply a QB.

You're right, we can't know what we don't know so until we see Lamar throw 600 times in a season we simply won't know. But we know a little bit because he was on pace for 584 attempts in 2021, (his numbers pro-rated to 4,400 yards & 26 TDs along with 1,178 rushing) but he didn't finish that year, so we don't know. Durability is absolutely an issue after the past two seasons but I haven't seen anyone knock Lamar's passing because of durability.

Like I said, so far this early offseason IMO the most interesting storyline to follow is who will be the Ravens new OC. I hope they get a true QB guru type. A Sean Payton on Parcells staff type.

I don't think you're doing it on purpose, so I'll refrain from calling it a strawman, but this may be the disconnect- almost no one (ignore the obvious troll account) is saying that Lamar "sucks as a passer". I'm certainly not. However, there's a huge range between "sucks" and "elite", and that's where he belongs. Again, where he sits in that range is debatable, and I'd agree that some may underrate his passing chops because he's so good as a runner, but almost no one would seriously argue that he's an elite passing QB, and that's based on what he does on the field, not the color of his skin.

This is a sidebar but there is plenty of data that suggests that Allen is a superior passer than Lamar, the other poster gave you some. However, as you say the data is only part of it, and subjectively the vast majority of people can see that Allen is simply a better thrower of the football than Lamar. He's far from perfect and definitely turns it over too much, but overall he's still clearly better. When the guy leading the "the Ravens are idiots and completely screwed this up" bus says it isn't close, it's probably time to re-evaluate.

You know this, but you can't just project out part of a season into a full one. For instance, the games Lamar played in during 2021 were against weaker defenses than the ones he missed. 3 of the games he missed were against divisional opponents Cleveland, Cincy, and Pittsburgh, and in their first meetings that year Lamar combined for 675 passing yards, 3 TDs, 5 INTs, and 14 sacks, which is much worse than his overall pace. He was also on pace for 20 INTs and 58 sacks in 2021, and that's not making any adjustments for opponents. Even had he been able to play all 17 games, and kept up the same pace, he would have finished ~10th in passing yards per game, ~11th in TD passes, 21st in completion %, 22nd in passer rating, dead last in INTs, and dead last in sacks. Those simply aren't "elite" passing QB numbers.

 

[Tau837]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...son-turned-down-133-million-fully-guaranteed/

He'll make 100 million in two years of franchise tags, these don't seem to be guarantee numbers that would work.

Not necessarily. I posted a link to an article and a quote from it earlier that described why the franchise tag value for 2023 will likely be less than $45M. That same logic could also reduce the 2024 franchise tag value.

 

[pollardsvision]

Allen strikes me as a combination of Jeff George and Cam Newton. Otherworldly arm talent with the ability to run over people.

Hard to see his game aging well.

He and Lamar will both get paid, but it's risky with both.

 

[finfansteve]

Lamar Jackson sucks as a passer because he sucks as a passer, Ray Charles could see this and he's not only blind, but he's also dead. Danny Dimes sucks. So does Baker Mayfield, Tim Couch, and 90 other white QBs Cleveland once trotted out there, or Derrick Carr, or dare I say Kirk Cousins , or Carson Wentz, or Mac friggin Jones. Or Browning Nagle, or Giants' Dave Brown, or Teddy Bridgewater, or Chad Henne.
you can either play the game or you can't, everyone I mentioned can't play the damn game.
who the hell would bring a person's skin color into this anyways? what kind of race-baiting d-bag does that?? it's all about talent , and coaching . Marc Rypien had a cup of coffee as the best QB in the game for 3-4 years. Same with Rich Gannon, a career backup. Doug Williams had one of the greatest seasons ever he wasn't anything special otherwise.

Lamar Jackson faked his injury - ok he was hurt-maybe. but then sat down like many college kids opting out of the championship games. jackson opted out. clearly he quit on the team.
has nothing to do with skin color he protected his assets ( i.e., his legs) by not playing. and that should cost him dearly with contracts. if I'm a GM I'm not signing him. never. he's shown all the self-centered nonsense in a player that I would never take on.

Horrible take. People wondered whether Lamar would play it safe and not risk injury by not running. Remember that? And then he ran wild. To question his commitment is ridiculous. Loyalty goes both ways. What commitment did the Ravens show him? The analysts on NFL radio today said it perfectly. The Ravens screwed this up bad. Every team extends a franchise QB early in their rookie contract when they know they have their guy. They still have the rookie contract term but then have their guy locked up for years afterwards at a rate that will be discounted by the time the rookie deal plays out. The bar always goes up. Lamar won an MVP and playoff games in year 2 and 3. They didn't get a deal done. And now they are in a bind. They are done as a SB contender for years and years if they lose Lamar. All of the other options (Tyler Huntley? D. Carr?, etc) flat out suck and they know it. But hey - save a few bucks. You'd be a perfect GM for them.

It is obvious the Ravens don`t think Jackson is their long term guy. A tag won`t help because he will just sit out again at the end of the season. What is loyalty? I paying 23 million this season loyal? Ravens probably would not have beat the Chiefs, Bengals or maybe Bills with Jackson.

They have not won with him ,and he has not been able to finish a season last couple of years. So why get locked into a deal and be stuck like the Broncos and Cowboys are now. Even the Rams are with Stafford who is now banged up..but Stafford did win one.

Plus Jackson needs to get out of the AFC. Mahomes, Allen, possibly Herbert are all young and going to be around the next 6-8 seasons. Or longer than Jackson will probably last. Go to an NFC team.

Detroit might be a nice landing spot for him

 

[Judge Smails]

Allen strikes me as a combination of Jeff George and Cam Newton. Otherworldly arm talent with the ability to run over people.

Hard to see his game aging well.

He and Lamar will both get paid, but it's risky with both.

Well if you’re saying he has the arm of George and the physical running ability of Newton that is an unbeatable combo. It’s interesting - the biggest injury risk I see with him is he’s constantly getting hit on his throwing arm. Elbows etc. He’s not getting hurt running. It’s in the passing game.

 

[Chaka]

Lamar Jackson sucks as a passer because he sucks as a passer, Ray Charles could see this and he's not only blind, but he's also dead. Danny Dimes sucks. So does Baker Mayfield, Tim Couch, and 90 other white QBs Cleveland once trotted out there, or Derrick Carr, or dare I say Kirk Cousins , or Carson Wentz, or Mac friggin Jones. Or Browning Nagle, or Giants' Dave Brown, or Teddy Bridgewater, or Chad Henne.
you can either play the game or you can't, everyone I mentioned can't play the damn game.
who the hell would bring a person's skin color into this anyways? what kind of race-baiting d-bag does that?? it's all about talent , and coaching . Marc Rypien had a cup of coffee as the best QB in the game for 3-4 years. Same with Rich Gannon, a career backup. Doug Williams had one of the greatest seasons ever he wasn't anything special otherwise.

Lamar Jackson faked his injury - ok he was hurt-maybe. but then sat down like many college kids opting out of the championship games. jackson opted out. clearly he quit on the team.
has nothing to do with skin color he protected his assets ( i.e., his legs) by not playing. and that should cost him dearly with contracts. if I'm a GM I'm not signing him. never. he's shown all the self-centered nonsense in a player that I would never take on.

You calling anyone a "baiter" is deliciously ironic. Please don't ever stop being you.

 

[Chaka]

Allen strikes me as a combination of Jeff George and Cam Newton. Otherworldly arm talent with the ability to run over people.

Hard to see his game aging well.

He and Lamar will both get paid, but it's risky with both.

Interesting take. So, you question whether Allen will be able to evolve into a pocket passer as his scrambling diminishes.

As with my feeling about Lamar, the threat of Allen running is written in stone at this point. It's going to be a long time before opposing defenses modify their schemes against him to close up the gaps that his running ability leaves open. That should give him, and Lamar, opportunity to become a long term pocket passers.

Anyone have access to QB passing data from in the pocket vs outside the pocket? Curious to see how these guys rate exclusively from the pocket.

 

[massraider]

You calling anyone a "baiter" is deliciously ironic. Please don't ever stop being you

If he had a podcast, I would subscribe and rate

 

[Chaka]

You calling anyone a "baiter" is deliciously ironic. Please don't ever stop being you

If he had a podcast, I would subscribe and rate

Hey, who doesn't need a little comic relief in their lives?

 

[Da Guru]

Lamar Jackson sucks as a passer because he sucks as a passer, Ray Charles could see this and he's not only blind, but he's also dead. Danny Dimes sucks. So does Baker Mayfield, Tim Couch, and 90 other white QBs Cleveland once trotted out there, or Derrick Carr, or dare I say Kirk Cousins , or Carson Wentz, or Mac friggin Jones. Or Browning Nagle, or Giants' Dave Brown, or Teddy Bridgewater, or Chad Henne.
you can either play the game or you can't, everyone I mentioned can't play the damn game.
who the hell would bring a person's skin color into this anyways? what kind of race-baiting d-bag does that?? it's all about talent , and coaching . Marc Rypien had a cup of coffee as the best QB in the game for 3-4 years. Same with Rich Gannon, a career backup. Doug Williams had one of the greatest seasons ever he wasn't anything special otherwise.

Lamar Jackson faked his injury - ok he was hurt-maybe. but then sat down like many college kids opting out of the championship games. jackson opted out. clearly he quit on the team.
has nothing to do with skin color he protected his assets ( i.e., his legs) by not playing. and that should cost him dearly with contracts. if I'm a GM I'm not signing him. never. he's shown all the self-centered nonsense in a player that I would never take on.

Horrible take. People wondered whether Lamar would play it safe and not risk injury by not running. Remember that? And then he ran wild. To question his commitment is ridiculous. Loyalty goes both ways. What commitment did the Ravens show him? The analysts on NFL radio today said it perfectly. The Ravens screwed this up bad. Every team extends a franchise QB early in their rookie contract when they know they have their guy. They still have the rookie contract term but then have their guy locked up for years afterwards at a rate that will be discounted by the time the rookie deal plays out. The bar always goes up. Lamar won an MVP and playoff games in year 2 and 3. They didn't get a deal done. And now they are in a bind. They are done as a SB contender for years and years if they lose Lamar. All of the other options (Tyler Huntley? D. Carr?, etc) flat out suck and they know it. But hey - save a few bucks. You'd be a perfect GM for them.

It is obvious the Ravens don`t think Jackson is their long term guy. A tag won`t help because he will just sit out again at the end of the season. What is loyalty? I paying 23 million this season loyal? Ravens probably would not have beat the Chiefs, Bengals or maybe Bills with Jackson.

They have not won with him ,and he has not been able to finish a season last couple of years. So why get locked into a deal and be stuck like the Broncos and Cowboys are now. Even the Rams are with Stafford who is now banged up..but Stafford did win one.

Plus Jackson needs to get out of the AFC. Mahomes, Allen, possibly Herbert are all young and going to be around the next 6-8 seasons. Or longer than Jackson will probably last. Go to an NFC team.

Detroit might be a nice landing spot for him

Doubt that will ever happen. Goff was 6th overall in QB stats. 3rd in passer rating. 4-1 TD to INT ratio was one the of the best. Had 6 catches that were tackled at one yard line or closer or it would have been a 5-6 to 1 ratio. Does not turn the ball over like Stafford did or still does.

Fits what the Lions are doing right now.

Plus he is signed for 2 more years at 25 a year.

 

[Dizzy]

Lamar Jackson sucks as a passer because he sucks as a passer, Ray Charles could see this and he's not only blind, but he's also dead. Danny Dimes sucks. So does Baker Mayfield, Tim Couch, and 90 other white QBs Cleveland once trotted out there, or Derrick Carr, or dare I say Kirk Cousins , or Carson Wentz, or Mac friggin Jones. Or Browning Nagle, or Giants' Dave Brown, or Teddy Bridgewater, or Chad Henne.
you can either play the game or you can't, everyone I mentioned can't play the damn game.
who the hell would bring a person's skin color into this anyways? what kind of race-baiting d-bag does that?? it's all about talent , and coaching . Marc Rypien had a cup of coffee as the best QB in the game for 3-4 years. Same with Rich Gannon, a career backup. Doug Williams had one of the greatest seasons ever he wasn't anything special otherwise.

Lamar Jackson faked his injury - ok he was hurt-maybe. but then sat down like many college kids opting out of the championship games. jackson opted out. clearly he quit on the team.
has nothing to do with skin color he protected his assets ( i.e., his legs) by not playing. and that should cost him dearly with contracts. if I'm a GM I'm not signing him. never. he's shown all the self-centered nonsense in a player that I would never take on.

Horrible take. People wondered whether Lamar would play it safe and not risk injury by not running. Remember that? And then he ran wild. To question his commitment is ridiculous. Loyalty goes both ways. What commitment did the Ravens show him? The analysts on NFL radio today said it perfectly. The Ravens screwed this up bad. Every team extends a franchise QB early in their rookie contract when they know they have their guy. They still have the rookie contract term but then have their guy locked up for years afterwards at a rate that will be discounted by the time the rookie deal plays out. The bar always goes up. Lamar won an MVP and playoff games in year 2 and 3. They didn't get a deal done. And now they are in a bind. They are done as a SB contender for years and years if they lose Lamar. All of the other options (Tyler Huntley? D. Carr?, etc) flat out suck and they know it. But hey - save a few bucks. You'd be a perfect GM for them.

It is obvious the Ravens don`t think Jackson is their long term guy. A tag won`t help because he will just sit out again at the end of the season. What is loyalty? I paying 23 million this season loyal? Ravens probably would not have beat the Chiefs, Bengals or maybe Bills with Jackson.

They have not won with him ,and he has not been able to finish a season last couple of years. So why get locked into a deal and be stuck like the Broncos and Cowboys are now. Even the Rams are with Stafford who is now banged up..but Stafford did win one.

Plus Jackson needs to get out of the AFC. Mahomes, Allen, possibly Herbert are all young and going to be around the next 6-8 seasons. Or longer than Jackson will probably last. Go to an NFC team.

Detroit might be a nice landing spot for him

Doubt that will ever happen. Goff was 6th overall in QB stats. 3rd in passer rating. 4-1 TD to INT ratio was one the of the best. Had 6 catches that were tackled at one yard line or closer or it would have been a 5-6 to 1 ratio. Does not turn the ball over like Stafford did or still does.

Fits what the Lions are doing right now.

Plus he is signed for 2 more years at 25 a year.

Maybe DET would keep Goff and trade for Lamar. Goff could tell Lamar what it's like to go to a Super Bowl.

 

[pollardsvision]

aiAllen strikes me as a combination of Jeff George and Cam Newton. Otherworldly arm talent with the ability to run over people.

Hard to see his game aging well.

He and Lamar will both get paid, but it's risky with both.

Interesting take. So, you question whether Allen will be able to evolve into a pocket passer as his scrambling diminishes.

As with my feeling about Lamar, the threat of Allen running is written in stone at this point. It's going to be a long time before opposing defenses modify their schemes against him to close up the gaps that his running ability leaves open. That should give him, and Lamar, opportunity to become a long term pocket passers.

Anyone have access to QB passing data from in the pocket vs outside the pocket? Curious to see how these guys rate exclusively from the pocket.

With both Allen and Lamar, I think there are a number of reasons to question their effectiveness as passers when their running ability diminishes.

But a lot of it, for sure, is that we really don't have many comparable case studies with other players. Not for guys that rely on this level of running ability.

Vick, Cunningham, and Newton are about the only comps at all, AFAIK. Maybe young Russell Wilson. Just not a lot to go on. It doesn't help that Vick and Cunningham lost time in their late 20's (right as you would expect they'd be starting the transition away from running so much).

We just don't know and haven't seen it. Giving an elite running QB a massive long-term deal at age 26/27 just has never worked out very well. Obviously, it's been a tiny sample size with extenuating circumstances.

Cunningham and Newton both tapped out of being an elite runner around age 27/28. Vick came back and got it done until around age 31.

As far as overall success, Cunningham was mostly never the same after the injury at age 27, other than the somewhat inexplicable 35 year old Moss season (when he was not a running threat). Vick had his thing, and some solid success when he came back, but he might've peaked at 26 (though he might have put together some really special 27/28 year old seasons. sucks we missed that). Newton was 28 the last time you would have wanted to pay him big money (you could argue for 26).

Anyway, just spitballing, I have no idea. We just don't have any good historical comps.

I hope Lamar and Allen both go on to be great QB's into their 40's.

**As an aside, if VIck hadn't have gone to jail, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't even be in here bringing this up. I believe he'd have continued wrecking shop at that pace until at least age 30. So, we'd at least have a late 20's mega contract that worked as an example. Maybe Lamar or Allen can do what Vick didn't get a chance to do. Maybe.

 

[Judge Smails]

Hearing some rumblings of Lamar to Atl. That actually makes some sense

 

[finfansteve]

Hearing some rumblings of Lamar to Atl. That actually makes some sense

That could hypothetically make Pitts a lot more valuable than he’s already perceived to be

 

[facook]

Hearing some rumblings of Lamar to Atl. That actually makes some sense

I could see that. If it happened, Ridder would work as a backup (like Huntley has the last couple of years) because of his mobility. Would Arthur Smith have to modify his offense much, going more towards the Greg Roman offense, or is his offense already close enough it doesn't matter? I'm not familiar enough with the Falcons offense the last two years to know.

 

[JohnnyU]

Hearing some rumblings of Lamar to Atl. That actually makes some sense

That could hypothetically make Pitts a lot more valuable than he’s already perceived to be

Yeah he loves his TE

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Ravens DL Calais Campbell hopes QB Lamar Jackson will stay in Baltimore
"... You can’t let a guy like him go. I know it’s football and there’s always some new exciting toy, a new exciting kid that has potential to go out there and be great, but this is a for sure, a known. You know Lamar Jackson is an incredible player. I think it’s in the best interest of the Ravens organization to give him a long-term contract and make him our guy. I know the front office is feeling the same thing. They’re smart guys. They’ve built teams that are always competing for a reason, so I’m sure it’s going to get done, but you never know. You have to take it one day at a time. Lamar Jackson is a star; he deserves to be paid like it and deserves the opportunity to lead his teams to hopefully multiple championships. As long as he’s on the field, you know your team has a chance.”
------------------------------------
2022 NFL Season Review: All 32 NFL teams' highest-graded players and biggest surprises

BALTIMORE RAVENS​

Highest-graded player: QB Lamar Jackson (85.2)​

Jackson missed the final five games of the 2022 regular season, and the Ravens weren't the same without him. Jackson was PFF's No. 5 quarterback in grade this season, including the No. 2 run grade at the position (92.6). When healthy, Jackson is still among the most dangerous and feared players in the NFL.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

What’s next for Lamar Jackson and the Ravens? Here are the 8 possible scenarios.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

You really gonna let a 26 year old guy with elite athleticism and a solid arm walk? Is he accurate, not as muh as he needs to be ... yet. Is he Steve Young, John Elway or Pat Mahomes? Probably never on the passing side, but I comp him to slightly faster S Young as far as running. Is he Michael Vick? Probably never. Vick was faster on the field. No matter what stats say. Vick live was a show worth paying for. And Vick had an absolute cannon.

But Lamar is very very good for a mid-20s QB? BAL needs to give him a 4-5 year contract and keep him through age 31. Build what they can around him. I've never been impressed with their WRs. Their skill guys seem so blah.

The question to always ask as a GM is ... if I let this guy go
1) who would I replace him with? (nobody good)
2) will I regret it? (75% chance yes)

 

[Godsbrother]

I totally think he remains in Baltimore. The question is whether they can come up with a long-term deal or slap the franchise tag on him.

 

[CalBear]

You really gonna let a 26 year old guy with elite athleticism and a solid arm walk? Is he accurate, not as muh as he needs to be ... yet. Is he Steve Young, John Elway or Pat Mahomes? Probably never on the passing side, but I comp him to slightly faster S Young as far as running. Is he Michael Vick? Probably never. Vick was faster on the field. No matter what stats say. Vick live was a show worth paying for. And Vick had an absolute cannon.

But Lamar is very very good for a mid-20s QB? BAL needs to give him a 4-5 year contract and keep him through age 31. Build what they can around him. I've never been impressed with their WRs. Their skill guys seem so blah.

The question to always ask as a GM is ... if I let this guy go
1) who would I replace him with? (nobody good)
2) will I regret it? (75% chance yes)

How did John Elway get in there as an elite passer? His career completion percentage is 56.9% and he never threw fewer than 10 INTs in a season.

 

[Chaka]

You really gonna let a 26 year old guy with elite athleticism and a solid arm walk? Is he accurate, not as muh as he needs to be ... yet. Is he Steve Young, John Elway or Pat Mahomes? Probably never on the passing side, but I comp him to slightly faster S Young as far as running. Is he Michael Vick? Probably never. Vick was faster on the field. No matter what stats say. Vick live was a show worth paying for. And Vick had an absolute cannon.

But Lamar is very very good for a mid-20s QB? BAL needs to give him a 4-5 year contract and keep him through age 31. Build what they can around him. I've never been impressed with their WRs. Their skill guys seem so blah.

The question to always ask as a GM is ... if I let this guy go
1) who would I replace him with? (nobody good)
2) will I regret it? (75% chance yes)

How did John Elway get in there as an elite passer? His career completion percentage is 56.9% and he never threw fewer than 10 INTs in a season.

His single season high water mark for completion % was 63.2% in '93. And it isn't a product of the era either, as contemporary starters from '92-'98 Young completed 67% at 8.2 y/a (Young retired after the '99 season), over that span Elway completed 59% at 7.2 y/a (Elway retired after '98).

Mind you Young's Niners cheated more & better than Elway's Broncos. But the Broncos cheated plenty.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Salary cap will be up nearly $17 million next season. That will help Lamar in negotiations

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Jake Burns
@jake_burns18
He was never hitting true free agency. Non-exclusive still in play to let him set his own market and two 1s back but even so, a trade would net them much more than two 1s.
------------------
Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
The #Ravens will be franchise tagging QB Lamar Jackson this offseason, according to @RapSheet Adds that his sense is that it would be the "Exclusive Franchise Tag" which prevents teams from signing him.

 

[The_Man]

Stathead has added a "Player Span Finder" function that enabled me to verify something I've long thought to be true:

In 2019, Lamar became the 4th QB in NFL history to have a passer rating of 130+ over an 8-game stretch during a season (during which he threw 25 TDs and 1 INT). Plus he rushed for 600+ yards during that stretch.

The others were Peyton in 04, Brady in 07 and Rodgers in 11.

The question for the Ravens is why has he taken a step back since then. As a Baltimore fan, I do think a big part of it is the WRs. The difference between what Lamar has vs what Hurts has couldn't have been more clear than on the first drive of the NFC Championship when AJ Brown dug out a low throw on third down to keep the drive going, followed by DeVonta's ridiculous catch (which should have been ruled incomplete). The Ravens now have a championship D and a lot of great pieces with Andrews and with Dobbins returning to form and hopefully Bateman coming back strong next year. I think they will add another WR and have Lamer play on a "Super Bowl or Bust" franchise tag in 2023. If he wins the Super Bowl, he - like Flacco - gets the big deal. If he doesn't, they'll tag and trade him.