ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Depends on Friday.Is Wilson the week 1 starter?
Depends on Friday.Is Wilson the week 1 starter?
I think the simple answer is bias due to his height. Here is an old post I made on Wilson:Based on this thread you would think that Wilson belonged in the conversation with luck and griffin. The consensus seems to be that his height made his draft stock drop. But drew brees height made him drop as well...to the top of the second round. There is obviously something else at play with Wilson being passed over 74 times during the draft other that his height. What was it?I think the bolded is really the issue. The community in general chose to lump him into the "too short to succeed" category rather than the "we've never seen a player like this and better think carefully about rushing to judgment" category.You ask about Brees vs. Wilson. Brees is listed at 6'0". Same for Vick. Wilson is listed as 5'11", but that's rounding... he's more like 5'10 3/4" or something like that. I literally believe it is a difference of about 2 inches in height that made the difference between Wilson being a top 10 pick and being picked where he was.Basically, what it comes down to with Wilson is that there is essentially no model for him.
Football Outsiders has come up with the Levin Career Forecast for college QBs, and it ranks Wilson higher than any college QB ever. It is clearly a questionable system, but that is still an interesting result. The article points out:
Among these players, only Vick, Brees, and Wilson were taken before the fourth round of the draft; the others were recognized to be deficient in areas other than just height. Wilson was a better college passer than any of those players, including Vick, Brees, and Flutie (Heisman does not equate to being a better passer).Furthermore, some of these players did not play in a pro set and/or played in a run heavy offense. Not true for Wilson. And the shorter players among this group likely had lower release points than Wilson does.Quarterbacks who are Wilson's height simply don't get drafted in the first three rounds of the draft, period. The FO master database only includes three quarterbacks who are below six feet tall: Seneca Wallace, Joe Hamilton, and Flutie. That's a fourth-round pick, a seventh-round pick, and an 11th round pick from 25 years ago. Even if we go all the way back to 1991, the only quarterbacks taken in the first six rounds at 6-foot-0 or shorter were Vick, Brees, Wallace, Joe Germaine (fourth round, 1999), and Troy Smith (fifth round, 2007).
On top of that, all of his intangibles are off the chart: leadership, work ethic, character, intelligence, etc. Not that these other players were necessarily bad guys or whatever, but Wilson would score 100 out of 100 on an intangibles assessment, as good as it can possibly get.
I'm not saying Wilson will be a star in the NFL. But I think the problem is that in trying to categorize him, many are failing to recognize that he is nearly unique. I think he is an intriguing dynasty player, and I'm hoping to draft him and stash him for a while.
Did you read what I just posted?Is there any historical precedent for a qb under 5'11 succeeding?
Here is a list of every(?) NFL quarterback under 5'11"The only 2 quarterbacks who were successful were Eddie LeBaron (4 Pro Bowls) and Doug Flutie (1 Pro Bowl).Is there any historical precedent for a qb under 5'11 succeeding?
He measured 5' 10 5/8" at the Senior Bowl. He is that short.He's got a high release point, huge hands, good vision, and running ability though, on top great character both on- and off-field.Here is a list of every(?) NFL quarterback under 5'11"The only 2 quarterbacks who were successful were Eddie LeBaron (4 Pro Bowls) and Doug Flutie (1 Pro Bowl).Is there any historical precedent for a qb under 5'11 succeeding?
Wilson does have one thing going in his favor, however: he's not that short.
Okay, maybe he's a hair under 5'11", but he gets to round up, so he'll never be on the NFL's list of quarterbacks under 5'11".He measured 5' 10 5/8" at the Senior Bowl. He is that short.Here is a list of every(?) NFL quarterback under 5'11"The only 2 quarterbacks who were successful were Eddie LeBaron (4 Pro Bowls) and Doug Flutie (1 Pro Bowl).Is there any historical precedent for a qb under 5'11 succeeding?
Wilson does have one thing going in his favor, however: he's not that short.
might be a bit late to get him for anything reasonable... most owners who have him aren't going to budge unless you blow their mind.Anybody know what kind of price he's going for in dynasty right now ? I want to trade for him.
I offered Josh Freeman and a 2nd round (top 20) rookie pick and was declined.might be a bit late to get him for anything reasonable... most owners who have him aren't going to budge unless you blow their mind.Anybody know what kind of price he's going for in dynasty right now ? I want to trade for him.
WoahI would of taken that and I'm a big Wilson fanI offered Josh Freeman and a 2nd round (top 20) rookie pick and was declined.might be a bit late to get him for anything reasonable... most owners who have him aren't going to budge unless you blow their mind.Anybody know what kind of price he's going for in dynasty right now ? I want to trade for him.
I've met him and he seemed shorter than that. I would of guessed 5-9He measured 5' 10 5/8" at the Senior Bowl. He is that short.
That would have also had me thinking.(I'm the guy spouting off with Wilson above Luck)WoahI would of taken that and I'm a big Wilson fanI offered Josh Freeman and a 2nd round (top 20) rookie pick and was declined.might be a bit late to get him for anything reasonable... most owners who have him aren't going to budge unless you blow their mind.Anybody know what kind of price he's going for in dynasty right now ? I want to trade for him.
Is his Mommy also demanding a trade?Fwiw, Matt Flynn isn't practicing this week now and says he has a tired arm and is now not playing Friday.
link?and Zach Miller is back also for SeattleFwiw, Matt Flynn isn't practicing this week now and says he has a tired arm and is now not playing Friday.
Where have you seen this?I have only seen he took off a practice, but haven't heard he took off the remainder of the week as well as the game.Fwiw, Matt Flynn isn't practicing this week now and says he has a tired arm and is now not playing Friday.
From Seahawks.com blogMatt Flynn did not practice to rest his arm, Carroll said, but he is expected to play against the Chiefs.
Evan Silva @evansilvaAdam Schefter said on SportsCenter #Seahawks QB job is "out of (Matt Flynn's) hands" at this pt. Wilson will start if he plays well Friday.
meh... sounds like it's a 10 team league (if the 2nd round pick is top 20)... and in that case I think I'd cross my fingers that Wilson could be something special (he likely paid a 4th to get him) than roster Freeman and have him basically be unstartable.That would have also had me thinking.(I'm the guy spouting off with Wilson above Luck)WoahI would of taken that and I'm a big Wilson fanI offered Josh Freeman and a 2nd round (top 20) rookie pick and was declined.might be a bit late to get him for anything reasonable... most owners who have him aren't going to budge unless you blow their mind.Anybody know what kind of price he's going for in dynasty right now ? I want to trade for him.
This was posted a couple days ago and the tweet above is not completely accurate. Schefter said he thought the job was out of flynns hands and he thought if Wilson played well he wouldEvan Silva @evansilvaAdam Schefter said on SportsCenter #Seahawks QB job is "out of (Matt Flynn's) hands" at this pt. Wilson will start if he plays well Friday.
Pat Fitzmaurice is a believer!Here are rookie rankings for dynasty leagues from longtime fantasy expert Pat Fitzmaurice, who has distinguished himself with his rankings and analysis over the years. Fitzmaurice will provide fantasy coverage on this site throughout the preseason and regular season, and his rankings will continue into the regular season, when they will be adjusted weekly for matchups, injuries and byes.
Quarterbacks
Andrew Luck, Colts
Robert Griffin III, Redskins
Russell Wilson, Seahawks
Ryan Tannehill, Dolphins
Brandon Weeden, Browns
Nick Foles, Eagles
Ryan Lindley, Cardinals
Kirk Cousins, Redskins
Brock Osweiler, Broncos
B.J. Coleman, Packers
Running backs
Trent Richardson, Browns
Doug Martin, Buccaneers
David Wilson, Giants
Isaiah Pead, Rams
Ronnie Hillman, Broncos
Lamar Miller, Dolphins
Robert Turbin, Seahawks
Vick Ballard, Colts
Bernard Pierce, Ravens
LaMichael James, 49ers
Chris Rainey, Steelers
Bryce Brown, Eagles
Alfred Morris, Redskins
Cyrus Gray, Chiefs
Michael Smith, Buccaneers
Terrance Ganaway, Jets
Daryl Richardson, Rams
Chris Polk, Eagles
Edwin Baker, Chargers
Daniel Herron, Bengals
Wide receivers
Justin Blackmon, Jaguars
Alshon Jeffery, Bears
Michael Floyd, Cardinals
Kendall Wright, Titans
Rueben Randle, Giants
Stephen Hill, Jets
Josh Gordon, Browns
Brian Quick, Rams
LaVon Brazill, Colts
T.Y. Hilton, Colts
Juron Criner, Raiders
Ryan Broyles, Lions
A.J. Jenkins, 49ers
Keshawn Martin, Texans
Chris Givens, Rams
T.J. Graham, Bills
Mohamed Sanu, Bengals
Nick Toon, Saints
Travis Benjamin, Browns
Marvin Jones, Bengals
Marvin McNutt, Eagles
DeVier Posey, Texans
Jarius Wright, Vikings
Devon Wylie, Chiefs
Tommy Streeter, Ravens
Joe Adams, Panthers
B.J. Cunningham, Dolphins
Danny Coale, Cowboys
Tight ends
Coby Fleener, Colts
Dwayne Allen, Colts
Orson Charles, Bengals
Evan Rodriguez, Bears
Michael Egnew, Dolphins
Ladarius Green, Chargers
Adrien Robinson, Giants
Overall
RB Trent Richardson, Browns
QB Andrew Luck, Colts
QB Robert Griffin III, Redskins
RB Doug Martin, Buccaneers
WR Justin Blackmon, Jaguars
RB David Wilson, Giants
WR Alshon Jeffery, Bears
QB Russell Wilson, Seahawks
WR Michael Floyd, Cardinals
WR Kendall Wright, Titans
RB Isaiah Pead, Rams
QB Ryan Tannehill, Dolphins
WR Rueben Randle, Giants
TE Coby Fleener, Colts
RB Ronnie Hillman, Broncos
RB Lamar Miller, Dolphins
WR Stephen Hill, Jets
WR Josh Gordon, Browns
QB Brandon Weeden, Browns
RB Robert Turbin, Seahawks
RB Vick Ballard, Colts
WR Brian Quick, Rams
RB Bernard Pierce, Ravens
RB LaMichael James, 49ers
TE Dwayne Allen, Colts
WR LaVon Brazill, Colts
WR T.Y. Hilton, Colts
QB Nick Foles, Eagles
RB Chris Rainey, Steelers
RB Bryce Brown, Eagles
WR Juron Criner, Raiders
WR Ryan Broyles, Lions
QB Ryan Lindley, Cardinals
RB Alfred Morris, Redskins
WR A.J. Jenkins, 49ers
WR Keshawn Martin, Texans
WR Chris Givens, Rams
WR T.J. Graham, Bills
WR Mohamed Sanu, Bengals
WR Nick Toon, Saints
RB Cyrus Gray, Chiefs
WR Travis Benjamin, Browns
QB Kirk Cousins, Redskins
QB Brock Osweiler, Broncos
RB Michael Smith, Buccaneers
TE Orson Charles, Bengals
That's weak sauce.'ImTheScientist said:Fwiw, Matt Flynn isn't practicing this week now and says he has a tired arm and is now not playing Friday.
He is starting the preseason game. Carroll has not named a starter for the regular season yet.He more Doug Flutie than Drew Brees, Brees is bigger and taller. I don't think his value will be higher than it is now that he's named the starter. I don't want to call him Tebow, because Wilson is in a class of his own from a production standpoint, but I'm sure people wish that they traded Tebow in Dynasty leagues while he was hot. I was a Troy Smith and Seneca Wallace guy from playing video games, these guy just don't succeed without the right measurable. From watching the preseason if I was set at starting qb and can wait I'd go crazy for Nick Foles instead.
That's weak sauce.'ImTheScientist said:Fwiw, Matt Flynn isn't practicing this week now and says he has a tired arm and is now not playing Friday.
You honestly haven't seen Russell Wilson play much, he's a very good passer.He more Doug Flutie than Drew Brees, Brees is bigger and taller. I don't think his value will be higher than it is now that he's named the starter. I don't want to call him Tebow, because Wilson is in a class of his own from a production standpoint, but I'm sure people wish that they traded Tebow in Dynasty leagues while he was hot. I was a Troy Smith and Seneca Wallace guy from playing video games, these guy just don't succeed without the right measurable. From watching the preseason if I was set at starting qb and can wait I'd go crazy for Nick Foles instead.
I bet the homers are giddyNeon unis also?Seahawks dynasty begins today.
Sure. Its nice to have something to be giddy about. A drastically improved roster from three years ago and the hope of a young quarterback. I think Seattle fans have the right be excited for the coming season. Why not?I believe Seattle is wearing the wolf grey pants and white tops today. My guess is the neon uniforms are history.I bet the homers are giddyNeon unis also?Seahawks dynasty begins today.
Bryan from Okanogan, Wash., wonders which quarterback the Seattle Seahawks will start in Week 1 if the top two candidates play well against Kansas City on Friday night.
What happens if Russell Wilson looks great (against a depleted secondary but overall strong defense) but then Matt Flynn comes in and looks great also (maybe one series against the varsity and the rest against the JV."
Sando: Not everyone appreciates these hypothetical scenarios, but with apologies to our pal Brian, I would lean toward Pete Carroll buying additional time to decide in that case.
The Seahawks would ideally favor Flynn in the short term and Wilson in the long term at that point. They could then get their money's worth from both. I'm just not sure Carroll will want to wait for the long term if Wilson appears as good or better right now, with a higher ceiling in the future.
The comfortable move would be to play Flynn now. If he fails, turn to Wilson at some point.
If you play Wilson right away and Wilson plays like a rookie, everyone loses. That would become a setback for Wilson. Flynn, having been benched and deprived of reps, might have a harder time succeeding than if he went into the season as the starter. And the team would be worse off in that case.
There's risk in upsetting the natural order of things. If the Seahawks are going to play Wilson right away, the decision would ideally be a clear-cut one. I don't think it'll be clear cut if both quarterbacks play well Friday night.
Agreed. I'm excited, although I'm also cautiously optimistic about this. I either want Wilson to *destroy* KC and start week 1, or to sit on the bench a year and learn. I don't want it to be up and down and for him to start week 1.Sure. Its nice to have something to be giddy about. A drastically improved roster from three years ago and the hope of a young quarterback. I think Seattle fans have the right be excited for the coming season. Why not?I believe Seattle is wearing the wolf grey pants and white tops today. My guess is the neon uniforms are history.I bet the homers are giddyNeon unis also?Seahawks dynasty begins today.
I never said that, the only difference between him and RG3 is 3 inches of height. He's a great passer along with being mobile, that's great for fantasy. I mentioned Tebow because the situation is similar if you consider his flaw(height not mechanics) a gamble long-term then why not sell high?You honestly haven't seen Russell Wilson play much, he's a very good passer.He more Doug Flutie than Drew Brees, Brees is bigger and taller. I don't think his value will be higher than it is now that he's named the starter. I don't want to call him Tebow, because Wilson is in a class of his own from a production standpoint, but I'm sure people wish that they traded Tebow in Dynasty leagues while he was hot. I was a Troy Smith and Seneca Wallace guy from playing video games, these guy just don't succeed without the right measurable. From watching the preseason if I was set at starting qb and can wait I'd go crazy for Nick Foles instead.
Flynn is a fraud, Wilson will start one way or another this year.He is starting the preseason game. Carroll has not named a starter for the regular season yet.
That was a gigantic abortion of a game. Not only were the uniforms the worst thing ever seen in American sports, the numbers and letters were white and couldn't be read very easily if at all on TV. There were also 2 horrendous calls that gave Chicago 2 TDs. One was a Thomas Jones fumble that seemed exceptionally clear that the play was called correctly but was still overturned and the other was a TD pass where the LT gave a huge jerk before the snap with no flag. Then dingdong supreme Jim Moron Jr throws Mare under the bus which was petty, stupid, unneccesary and showed how little Moron knows about coaching. Only two good things came out of that game, one those jerseys will never be seen again and Mare didn't miss another kick. Not sure I like this wolf grey ####. Give us some time to get used to the new uniforms before throwing in alternates! I just realized they're not as bad as I thought they'd b, especially with them wearing blue pants on the road (the ONLY thing Moron did right while coach). Now they're ####### up that already fragile acceptance...Sure. Its nice to have something to be giddy about. A drastically improved roster from three years ago and the hope of a young quarterback. I think Seattle fans have the right be excited for the coming season. Why not?I believe Seattle is wearing the wolf grey pants and white tops today. My guess is the neon uniforms are history.I bet the homers are giddyNeon unis also?Seahawks dynasty begins today.
Carroll has balls of ####### steelIf this is actually Russell Wilson's starter audition, I think he has won the job. The only thing stopping him from taking it would be fear of throwing him in too soon or politics. From what I see, this is a guy that should be an nfl starter.I don't really need another backup behind Ryan (and locker), but I can't let someone else in my league have this guy. He's on my roster until Flynn wins the job (or until my ncsu grad friend offers me something stupid)
This is what gets me. What ha Flynn done to be a "fraud?". He has played well every time he has been on the field. It doesn't have to be a zero sum game. Both can be good players.'ShaHBucks said:I never said that, the only difference between him and RG3 is 3 inches of height. He's a great passer along with being mobile, that's great for fantasy. I mentioned Tebow because the situation is similar if you consider his flaw(height not mechanics) a gamble long-term then why not sell high?You honestly haven't seen Russell Wilson play much, he's a very good passer.He more Doug Flutie than Drew Brees, Brees is bigger and taller. I don't think his value will be higher than it is now that he's named the starter. I don't want to call him Tebow, because Wilson is in a class of his own from a production standpoint, but I'm sure people wish that they traded Tebow in Dynasty leagues while he was hot. I was a Troy Smith and Seneca Wallace guy from playing video games, these guy just don't succeed without the right measurable. From watching the preseason if I was set at starting qb and can wait I'd go crazy for Nick Foles instead.Flynn is a fraud, Wilson will start one way or another this year.He is starting the preseason game. Carroll has not named a starter for the regular season yet.