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QB Sam Darnold, SEA (4 Viewers)

Ray_T said:
Chaka said:
travdogg said:
Drunken Benson said:
So now that J.J. McCarthy is out for the year, what do we think? Darnold has never been good, but he's never been in a decent situation either. MIN has great receivers and solid coaching. I'm thinking strong QB2, but maybe late QB1. But I have no idea.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say Darnold has never had a DECENT situation. He an ok OL, CMC, and DJ Moore in Carolina. The current Vikings are probably better than that, especially when Hockenson gets back, but its not like Darnold's whole career was just terrible supporting casts.
Click to expand...
HC is a big part of the supporting cast.

That's where Darnold really started behind the 8-Ball. I like Todd Bowles but his staff was bad with the Jets. OC Jeremey Bates has been out of the league since 2018. Then Adam Gase followed by Matt Ruhl. Those are HCs, and the most important parts of their offensive coaching staff (Ben MacAdoo was Darnold's OC at one point) who were woefully in over their head.

At this point, I don't see much hope for Darnold suddenly turning it around because I think he is probably broken mentally. But I have learned not to doubt Kevin O'Connell's ability to get the most out of a QB. It would be a bummer if Addison misses time but with JJ as the WR1 you don't need much more to be successful as a QB.
Click to expand...
thats the thing. playing under a bad coach can sometimes break a player. QB is tough enough as it is without having to deal with that.

future coaches likely have to make him unlearn all the stuff he learned in that bad situation. not an easy task.

his success is by no means a guarantee. but if he was to turn it around, this is the place to do it. its here, or never.
Click to expand...
Thats true and that's very apparent. Some of my hope and faith is pinned on him having spent a year in Shanhanan's room. Remember before last year there seemed to be quite a bit of smoke they wanted him to start and if Purdy didn't start hot he might well have gotten in the rotation last year.

The Vikes knew they had they had the 5 pick and still went out and got Darnold.
 
Last edited:
Smack Tripper said:
Ray_T said:
Chaka said:
travdogg said:
Drunken Benson said:
So now that J.J. McCarthy is out for the year, what do we think? Darnold has never been good, but he's never been in a decent situation either. MIN has great receivers and solid coaching. I'm thinking strong QB2, but maybe late QB1. But I have no idea.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say Darnold has never had a DECENT situation. He an ok OL, CMC, and DJ Moore in Carolina. The current Vikings are probably better than that, especially when Hockenson gets back, but its not like Darnold's whole career was just terrible supporting casts.
Click to expand...
HC is a big part of the supporting cast.

That's where Darnold really started behind the 8-Ball. I like Todd Bowles but his staff was bad with the Jets. OC Jeremey Bates has been out of the league since 2018. Then Adam Gase followed by Matt Ruhl. Those are HCs, and the most important parts of their offensive coaching staff (Ben MacAdoo was Darnold's OC at one point) who were woefully in over their head.

At this point, I don't see much hope for Darnold suddenly turning it around because I think he is probably broken mentally. But I have learned not to doubt Kevin O'Connell's ability to get the most out of a QB. It would be a bummer if Addison misses time but with JJ as the WR1 you don't need much more to be successful as a QB.
Click to expand...
thats the thing. playing under a bad coach can sometimes break a player. QB is tough enough as it is without having to deal with that.

future coaches likely have to make him unlearn all the stuff he learned in that bad situation. not an easy task.

his success is by no means a guarantee. but if he was to turn it around, this is the place to do it. its here, or never.
Click to expand...
Thats true and that's very apparent. Some of my hope and faith is pinned on him having spent a year in Shanhanan's room. Remember before last year there seemed to be quite a bit of smoke they wanted him to start and if Purdy didn't start hot he might well have gotten in the rotation last year.

The Vikes knew they had they had the 5 pick and still went out and got Darnold.
Click to expand...
This gets even more interesting when you consider that once Hock is back Darnold will have weapons that will be a lite version of the Niners talent.

JJ > Aiyuk By a good margin

Addison < Deebo, but it's much closer than what current ranking show when it becomes obvious Addison won't be suspended.

Hock = Kittle

Aaron Jones < CMC by a good margin
 
BINGBING said:
This gets even more interesting when you consider that once Hock is back Darnold will have weapons that will be a lite version of the Niners talent.

JJ > Aiyuk By a good margin

Addison < Deebo, but it's much closer than what current ranking show when it becomes obvious Addison won't be suspended.

Hock = Kittle

Aaron Jones < CMC by a good margin
Click to expand...
That's being either really generous to the Vikings, or really insulting to the 49ers. I'm gonna assume the former.

JJ>>>>Aiyuk
Deebo>>>Addison, assuming no suspension
Kittle>>>Hockenson, and that's assuming TJ is his normal self, post knee injury. Man, Kittle is underappreciated.
CMC>>Jones, and I'm probably the biggest Jones fan around.
Purdy>>>>Darnold, hell, Jimmy G>>Darnold.

I think the HOPE with Darnold is Jimmy G in SF numbers, and while I like O'Connell, he's not Kyle Shanahan, though I'm prepared to eat those words if Darnold is suddenly among the NFL's most efficient passers.
 
BINGBING said:
Smack Tripper said:
Ray_T said:
Chaka said:
travdogg said:
Drunken Benson said:
So now that J.J. McCarthy is out for the year, what do we think? Darnold has never been good, but he's never been in a decent situation either. MIN has great receivers and solid coaching. I'm thinking strong QB2, but maybe late QB1. But I have no idea.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say Darnold has never had a DECENT situation. He an ok OL, CMC, and DJ Moore in Carolina. The current Vikings are probably better than that, especially when Hockenson gets back, but its not like Darnold's whole career was just terrible supporting casts.
Click to expand...
HC is a big part of the supporting cast.

That's where Darnold really started behind the 8-Ball. I like Todd Bowles but his staff was bad with the Jets. OC Jeremey Bates has been out of the league since 2018. Then Adam Gase followed by Matt Ruhl. Those are HCs, and the most important parts of their offensive coaching staff (Ben MacAdoo was Darnold's OC at one point) who were woefully in over their head.

At this point, I don't see much hope for Darnold suddenly turning it around because I think he is probably broken mentally. But I have learned not to doubt Kevin O'Connell's ability to get the most out of a QB. It would be a bummer if Addison misses time but with JJ as the WR1 you don't need much more to be successful as a QB.
Click to expand...
thats the thing. playing under a bad coach can sometimes break a player. QB is tough enough as it is without having to deal with that.

future coaches likely have to make him unlearn all the stuff he learned in that bad situation. not an easy task.

his success is by no means a guarantee. but if he was to turn it around, this is the place to do it. its here, or never.
Click to expand...
Thats true and that's very apparent. Some of my hope and faith is pinned on him having spent a year in Shanhanan's room. Remember before last year there seemed to be quite a bit of smoke they wanted him to start and if Purdy didn't start hot he might well have gotten in the rotation last year.

The Vikes knew they had they had the 5 pick and still went out and got Darnold.
Click to expand...
This gets even more interesting when you consider that once Hock is back Darnold will have weapons that will be a lite version of the Niners talent.

JJ > Aiyuk By a good margin

Addison < Deebo, but it's much closer than what current ranking show when it becomes obvious Addison won't be suspended.

Hock = Kittle

Aaron Jones < CMC by a good margin
Click to expand...
I dont know what to say about this other than we are comparing things that should not really be compared to each other.

I will leave it at that
 
Ray_T said:
BINGBING said:
Smack Tripper said:
Ray_T said:
Chaka said:
travdogg said:
Drunken Benson said:
So now that J.J. McCarthy is out for the year, what do we think? Darnold has never been good, but he's never been in a decent situation either. MIN has great receivers and solid coaching. I'm thinking strong QB2, but maybe late QB1. But I have no idea.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say Darnold has never had a DECENT situation. He an ok OL, CMC, and DJ Moore in Carolina. The current Vikings are probably better than that, especially when Hockenson gets back, but its not like Darnold's whole career was just terrible supporting casts.
Click to expand...
HC is a big part of the supporting cast.

That's where Darnold really started behind the 8-Ball. I like Todd Bowles but his staff was bad with the Jets. OC Jeremey Bates has been out of the league since 2018. Then Adam Gase followed by Matt Ruhl. Those are HCs, and the most important parts of their offensive coaching staff (Ben MacAdoo was Darnold's OC at one point) who were woefully in over their head.

At this point, I don't see much hope for Darnold suddenly turning it around because I think he is probably broken mentally. But I have learned not to doubt Kevin O'Connell's ability to get the most out of a QB. It would be a bummer if Addison misses time but with JJ as the WR1 you don't need much more to be successful as a QB.
Click to expand...
thats the thing. playing under a bad coach can sometimes break a player. QB is tough enough as it is without having to deal with that.

future coaches likely have to make him unlearn all the stuff he learned in that bad situation. not an easy task.

his success is by no means a guarantee. but if he was to turn it around, this is the place to do it. its here, or never.
Click to expand...
Thats true and that's very apparent. Some of my hope and faith is pinned on him having spent a year in Shanhanan's room. Remember before last year there seemed to be quite a bit of smoke they wanted him to start and if Purdy didn't start hot he might well have gotten in the rotation last year.

The Vikes knew they had they had the 5 pick and still went out and got Darnold.
Click to expand...
This gets even more interesting when you consider that once Hock is back Darnold will have weapons that will be a lite version of the Niners talent.

JJ > Aiyuk By a good margin

Addison < Deebo, but it's much closer than what current ranking show when it becomes obvious Addison won't be suspended.

Hock = Kittle

Aaron Jones < CMC by a good margin
Click to expand...
I dont know what to say about this other than we are comparing things that should not really be compared to each other.

I will leave it at that
Click to expand...
As a Lions fan, I can say Hock absolutely does not equal Kittle. No way.
 
Curious peoples opinions. I currently have Goff as my backup QB in a standard non-PPR league. hasn't been on fire as yet. Still has all those weapons so maybe just two clunkers and then bingo. Or I could drop him and grab Darnold. Who looked impressive yesterday. Not like the 49ers have a lame defense either.
 
Price check in aisle 3, dynasty.
I was offered a 4th round pick in a 16 team league. Passed. Countered with Roman Wilson. Understandably, he wants to keep Roman.
is he worth an early 2?
 
Jamesinaz said:
Curious peoples opinions. I currently have Goff as my backup QB in a standard non-PPR league. hasn't been on fire as yet. Still has all those weapons so maybe just two clunkers and then bingo. Or I could drop him and grab Darnold. Who looked impressive yesterday. Not like the 49ers have a lame defense either.
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t drop Goff, his best games are in front of him.
I’m tempted to bench Richardson for Darnold but AR has a better matchup next week.
Having Darnold and Richardson in redraft makes me think I could drop Levis and not feel any remorse. Deep bench, so there’s not a LOT on waivers right now.
 
Jamesinaz said:
Curious peoples opinions. I currently have Goff as my backup QB in a standard non-PPR league. hasn't been on fire as yet. Still has all those weapons so maybe just two clunkers and then bingo. Or I could drop him and grab Darnold. Who looked impressive yesterday. Not like the 49ers have a lame defense either.
Click to expand...
I'd rather have Darnold as my backup. As well as he's playing now after their bye week he's on track to have a full complement of weapons.

He'll use his legs a little more then Goff but major difference is is that KOC does not use the running game around the goal line remotely as much as the Lions.
 
King of the Jungle said:
Good for Sam. Starting to see a trend with these QBs (Baker, Geno, Sam, Carr) who get an improved coaching staff/system after years of mediocre environments. Teams and coaching matter and this was the concern I had with Caleb. Few are able to overcome on their own.
Click to expand...
It’s almost like decent QBs with great coaches and development can be very good!

We are typically far too quick to blame busting on the player (esp at QB). Success at that position is so interdependent.
 
Uncle Leo said:
He’s one and done in Minny, right?
Click to expand...
Yes, unless he plays so well that it’s hard for them not to re-sign him.

It would be really hard if this team went deep in the playoffs to let him walk. I think this front office has the discipline to do that, but it would be a very controversial move.
 
I just think QBs hit their peak level of playing a lot later than other players do. The QB position is so cerebral I just think they play better once they reach 28 years old than they were capable of earlier on in their career.

There are exceptions of course but we have seen this over and over again. Baker Mayfield, Geno Smith, Jared Goff for example.

Seems to be working for Darnold too.
 
So us Giant fans still have hope for Daniel Jones then. He turn 28 next May. All
Kidding aside I was actually interested in Giants going after Darnold.
 
Uncle Leo said:
So us Giant fans still have hope for Daniel Jones then. He turn 28 next May. All
Kidding aside I was actually interested in Giants going after Darnold.
Click to expand...
I think there is a baseline of quality the QB needs to have to get a starting job later in their career for this to happen.

I never really thought Darnold could do this though so who knows?
 
Uncle Leo said:
So us Giant fans still have hope for Daniel Jones then. He turn 28 next May. All
Kidding aside I was actually interested in Giants going after Darnold.
Click to expand...
Jones tantalizes on occasion, today being one of them. I do think people give up on QBs too soon.
 
Next Gen Stats
All four of Sam Darnold’s touchdowns against the Texans came on short passes (0-10 air yards), against no blitz, and against man coverage; three were on dropbacks over 2.5 seconds.

Darnold currently leads the NFL in TDs on dropbacks over 2.5 seconds (6).

#HOUvsMIN | @Vikings
Click to expand...

x.com

x.com x.com
 
It took Rich Gannon 12 seasons before he started putting up good starting caliber numbers in the NFL at 34 years old.

I remember the start of his career as a Viking. He was not ready to be a starter then although he did show some promise. Obviously that took a really long time.

Alex Smith another example of a QB who started playing better when he was 28 years old. He only played in 10 games that year but he completed 70% of his passes. He started playing at a higher level then.

There really are a ton of examples of this. Brady and Big Ben started playing at a higher level later on in their careers after being more game managers early on. Its not just the QBs getting a 2nd chance later on in their careers who show improvement with maturity.
 
Good chance Darnold is the overall QB1 after week 3 and playing as good as any other QB. At what point do we adjust to this new reality? Keep Darnold and trade the starting QB we drafted? Trade Darnold for what in return?
 
satch said:
Good chance Darnold is the overall QB1 after week 3 and playing as good as any other QB. At what point do we adjust to this new reality? Keep Darnold and trade the starting QB we drafted? Trade Darnold for what in return?
Click to expand...
Certainly not after 3 weeks. He'd be a guy I wouldn't trade for until a week or two before your league's trade dealine (if you have one). But I'd be looking for a couple of months out of him before I really trust him.

He can have a bad week, but I wanna see him bounce back immediately the next week.
 
ShamrockPride said:
satch said:
Good chance Darnold is the overall QB1 after week 3 and playing as good as any other QB. At what point do we adjust to this new reality? Keep Darnold and trade the starting QB we drafted? Trade Darnold for what in return?
Click to expand...
Certainly not after 3 weeks. He'd be a guy I wouldn't trade for until a week or two before your league's trade dealine (if you have one). But I'd be looking for a couple of months out of him before I really trust him.

He can have a bad week, but I wanna see him bounce back immediately the next week.
Click to expand...
Sure, but waiting for this or that to play out has consequences. His value will either increase or decrease, perhaps dramatically, in either direction.
 
Gally said:
Chaka said:
Uncle Leo said:
He’s one and done in Minny, right?
Click to expand...
Well, the Ravens went from Trent Dilfer to Elvis Grbac after they won their Super Bowl, so I guess anything's possible.
Click to expand...
Now you are just being silly. There is no way the Vikings are winning the Super Bowl to test this.
Click to expand...
Anything is possible with an elite defense and the weaponry this team has on the offensive side. Maybe not likely, but with league QB play being what it is this year it is not out of the realm of possibility.
 
King of the Jungle said:
Gally said:
Chaka said:
Uncle Leo said:
He’s one and done in Minny, right?
Click to expand...
Well, the Ravens went from Trent Dilfer to Elvis Grbac after they won their Super Bowl, so I guess anything's possible.
Click to expand...
Now you are just being silly. There is no way the Vikings are winning the Super Bowl to test this.
Click to expand...
Anything is possible with an elite defense and the weaponry this team has on the offensive side. Maybe not likely, but with league QB play being what it is this year it is not out of the realm of possibility.
Click to expand...
Come on..........it's the Vikings. The only thing possible is to increase the hopes of all Vikings fans to a point that we finally allow ourselves to have dreams of a Super Bowls in our heads only to be nugget punched at the worst possible moment to bring us back to reality.
 
Gally said:
King of the Jungle said:
Gally said:
Chaka said:
Uncle Leo said:
He’s one and done in Minny, right?
Click to expand...
Well, the Ravens went from Trent Dilfer to Elvis Grbac after they won their Super Bowl, so I guess anything's possible.
Click to expand...
Now you are just being silly. There is no way the Vikings are winning the Super Bowl to test this.
Click to expand...
Anything is possible with an elite defense and the weaponry this team has on the offensive side. Maybe not likely, but with league QB play being what it is this year it is not out of the realm of possibility.
Click to expand...
Come on..........it's the Vikings. The only thing possible is to increase the hopes of all Vikings fans to a point that we finally allow ourselves to have dreams of a Super Bowls in our heads only to be nugget punched at the worst possible moment to bring us back to reality.
Click to expand...
Sorry to have provided any additional hope, best to lower expectations to avoid disappointment. Either way, so far this team looks fantastic and has man-handled some darn good teams.
 
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