SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Hm. I have doubts about our front office that perhaps I should not have. I want real black and white reporting on this and my guess is it will come from outside Nola.
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QB Teddy Bridgewater, DET (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Shawnky
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
You've also got what is basically an abject failure by Sean Payton to find a real, young replacement for Brees. Payton - who I appreciate so much and I mean that - has not been such a QB genius outside Brees. The preseason has IMO been a total disgrace. Taysom Hill played perhaps the most disastrous half of football from a QB that I can recall in PS game 2. Stats were fine, but there were 4 TOs and IIRC there were two more drives where he basically coughed the ball up but the Saints somehow held it. Tom Savage has been Tom Savage. And actually he has been *ok* but maybe one successful downfield throw that I can recall in PS.
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Doug B
Footballguy
Starting for a 4-12 team in 2019, or for a 12-4 loaded-roster team in 2020? Not like he'll be eating out of garbage cans while holding a clipboard for two seasons.
Hard to think that Brees' resurrection in New Orleans with Joe Lombardi and Sean Payton doesn't factor in to Bridgewater's view of his new team.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
I love the trade from Teddy's point of view, but giving up a 3rd rounder seems pretty excessive, especially if they don't have a long-term deal in place.
I can't imagine that there were very many teams offering more than a 4th or 5th round pick.
I can't imagine that there were very many teams offering more than a 4th or 5th round pick.
Doug B
Footballguy
Yeah, but "developing Brees" is a heckuva nice skin on the wall.
Payton isn't like Bill Walsh or Don Coryell or anything ... but he did max out Kerry Collins abilities in New York (even passing for 4,000 yards in 2002). And Payton is given (maybe too much?) credit for Tony Romo's development in Dallas though they only officially worked together during the 2005 season.
...
Agreed about the Saints failing to find Brees' heir apparent, though. One big problem they had was having to catch up on their roster quality after the 2012-2013-2014 drafts, which were either thinned by Bountygate or rife with misses. Bad FA signings compounded the problem. They couldn't throw a high pick at a QB in recent years.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I feel like I’m not up to speed on the Jets but my sense was TB had played the best in PS. But regardless the NYJ want to get to the franchise rookie no matter what. They brought McCown in for the placeholder job. Teddy seems far more expendable than is merited by a 3rd.
Also without checking IIRC this leaves the Saints without a 1st or a 3rd in next year’s draft.
psychobillies
Footballguy
If Teddy leaves next year and signs a decent sized contract, wouldn't the saints get a compensatory pick? Maybe even a 3rd?
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Compensatory picks are based on a complex formula that involves things like playing time and your net free agent loss or gain.
So, if Bridgewater doesn't play AND the Saints sign another free agent QB next year, then they won't get anything.
If Bridgewater plays a lot and then he leaves (and the Saints DON'T sign another QB), then they'll get a compensatory pick.
So, if Bridgewater doesn't play AND the Saints sign another free agent QB next year, then they won't get anything.
If Bridgewater plays a lot and then he leaves (and the Saints DON'T sign another QB), then they'll get a compensatory pick.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
Teddy won't know until next offseason if re-signing with the Saints will be his best option, and I'd be shocked if he worked that hard to come back and build up his value without at least exploring what's out there as a UFA. Even if he doesn't play a snap this season, teams needing a QB will want him and some may be able to offer him a starting job.
Don't know what teams will be looking for a QB, don't know who could offer him a starting job or a chance to compete for one. But if Brees is going to play in 2019, then it's unlikely that New Orleans would be his best situation as a UFA. Without some sort of indication that Teddy is open to re-upping in New Orleans, I can't imagine the Saints would've moved a pick like that though.
Don't know what teams will be looking for a QB, don't know who could offer him a starting job or a chance to compete for one. But if Brees is going to play in 2019, then it's unlikely that New Orleans would be his best situation as a UFA. Without some sort of indication that Teddy is open to re-upping in New Orleans, I can't imagine the Saints would've moved a pick like that though.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
And, it makes perfect sense if Bridgewater were under contract during said time Brees might be retiring. But, he isn’t. There’s no data I’m aware of pointing to how getting a guy in house translates to signing future contracts.
This is a one-year backup insurance policy. Expecting him to be around for Brees’s retirement party and beyond is expensive wishful thinking.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I don’t know. Rodgers just did pretty well for himself didn’t he? Guess sitting behind Favre and learning for 4 years was worthwhile.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Rodgers had no choice. If he could have left GB at the end of any one of those seasons and signed for at least $20MM, I’m pretty sure he would have done it.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Didn't the Rams just recently do this with Watkins? And the Pats just did it with Cooks but were able to flip him and profit before he left.That's what we're telling ourselves down here
Baseball teams sometimes "rent" players for a year or half a year ... but I can't recall an NFL team ever intentionally doing that.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Good for Teddy.
I think it is interesting that he gets to work with Drew Brees now who is the player Norv Turner compared Teddy to.
I think it is interesting that he gets to work with Drew Brees now who is the player Norv Turner compared Teddy to.
Doug B
Footballguy
I don’t believe that much is on the table for Bridgewater in 2019. Say he stayed on the Jets all of 2018 with Darnold starting 16 games. Someone’s paying Bridgewater even $18M/yr to start in 2019?
DocHolliday
Footballguy
At the end of the day I'm just glad for Teddy as well. The Jets have their QB of the future so Teddy needed out. The Saints have a good young nucleus of players on O ready for Teddy when Brees retires.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Yes. Case Kennum got paid that. Don’t forget Bridgewater has played before and he was a Pro Bowler. All he needs to be is healthy and he’s already showed that.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
That’s correct. But would he be the same QB if he had? Personally I do not believe he would be.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
No. Unless Brees retires, is traded, or gets cut. Too much cap being used for Brees and a tagged QB.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I think so, but of course we can’t really know. We do know that it did not hurt him however.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
He potentially lost tens of millions of dollars. It worked out, despite sitting 4 years, but let’s not pretend Favre was any sort of mentor or model for Rodgers.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
Seems like strong language. How many teams have a true succession plan in place for a top starter?
saintfool
Dead sexy
i'm okay with rolling the dice in effect with this move. teddy could be the future here and we were willing to spend two R1 picks for Davenport in this draft. parting with a R3 pick for a future starting QB is not steep price. that said, Teddy better sign with us and this needs to work.
Why does it need to work. Majority of 3rd round qb picks fail. Saints took Grayson early 3rd round 2 or 3 years ago.
Shawnky
Footballguy
Is it likely? PROBABLY not. Is it out of the realm of reality? Not at all. The defense is for real. The running game is for real. The receiving options and coaching are there. Hell, Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Look at the Eagles with Foles last year. So yes, the Saints are definitely a team that could make the Super Bowl without at Brees now.
Shawnky
Footballguy
Nothing irrational when you add the likes of Foles, Kaep, Flacco, Grossman, Hasselback, Delhomme, Gannon, Brad Johnson, Kerry Collins......I can go on. You don't have to have a Hall of Fame QB to make it to the Super Bowl.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Useful to note here that Kaepernick was available. And the Saints wouldn’t have had to hemorrhage a 3rd rounder.
Shawnky
Footballguy
You're getting ahead of yourself thinking it's a 1 year rental. Last I checked, Brees will be 40 very soon. Don't kid yourself. The Saints already don't have a 1 next year. You act like they don't know what they're doing in NO.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Shawnky
Footballguy
So, the time has come and passed for NO to extend him? You have your opinion on the trade, and then there's the reality of what's yet to come.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
matttyl
Footballguy
Saints could still trade him this year to a team who's QB gets hurt, right? That's not off the table. Or, they could get a compensatory pick next year (after some magic calculus is computed) that offsets this and possibly means they traded a 3rd for a 4th and a 6th (they got a 6th from the Jets as well as Teddy).....all while having a very good backup QB at a reasonable $ price ($5m) and potentially having the inside track to sign him long term.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
So you must have been in on the discussions between the Saints, Jets, and Bridgewater prior to the trade, since you appear to have some kind of inside knowledge that none of the rest of us do.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I remember when SF traded a 2nd for Jimmy G with only about 6 weeks left on his contract... that seemed to turn out just fine.
Why do people assume that these teams don't have a plan in place? We do we assume that NO hasn't talked to Teddy about the possibility of a long term deal prior to the trade?
Why do people assume that these teams don't have a plan in place? We do we assume that NO hasn't talked to Teddy about the possibility of a long term deal prior to the trade?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I'm just speculating I have no inside info - but unless the Saints make a very generous offer (and I don't see how they can) I don't see Teddy having any incentive to sign an extension with the Saints for backup type money now or during the season. Why wouldn't he want to see what's out there next offseason? - off the top of my head I can see a few teams like Jacksonville, Miami, Denver and possibly even Tampa Bay or Buffalo looking for starting QBs next offseason.
I can see a scenario where Brees retires leaving the Saints as one of those teams as well in which case they could offer him a big contract and if he likes his time there put them in the driver's seat.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
matttyl
Footballguy
While I agree with you, in the Jimmy G situation he was walking right in as both the immediate as well as the long term man at QB. He was their starting QB within a few weeks of the trade. That won't be the case for Teddy (unless Brees goes down), for at least a full year, very possibly two.
Doug B
Footballguy
You're fighting the hypothetical a bit -- if he stayed on the bench for NYJ all of 2018, now way he'd command $18+ M/yr in 2019. Keenum's Denver contract came after a 2017 season where he got to demonstrate legit starting QB ability for half a season plus playoffs.Dr. Octopus said:
If I'm following the logic of your take correctly ... Bridgewater should've easily commanded a Keenum or Bortles level contract THIS PAST offseason. But that market wasn't there for him -- and it wouldn't be there for him next offseason, either, without a chance to take a lot of meaningful snaps during the 2018 regular season for the Jets.
(Re: his Pro Bowl appearance -- looks good on his resume. But it was after half the NFC QBs passed. Same as when Tyrod Taylor went to the Pro Bowl. Bridgewater was flashing and showing potential, but wasn't a top-several NFL starter that year.)
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Continuity and guaranteed money over a long contract can be a powerful incentive. NO can see what he looks like in practice, and if he continues to look like he did this past PS could easily put a huge signing bonus in a backloaded 6-7 year contract that would make good cap sense. Brees will also turn 40 after this season - as you said, NO could simply decide to move on and make Bridgewater their starter while paying him accordingly.
.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
You're not following my logic at all. Teams were leery of him because of his injury and being away from the field for two seasons - he has not proven to be recovered and regained form.
I think it's wishful thinking on your part to think he's not going to get any serious offers on the open market. Maybe I'm wrong though.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I think that's certainly a possibility (and I left that scenario open in my post). But if he signed a big money (i.e. starter's money) contract in-season that may not sit well with Brees during the season.
