Random Drug Testing in Schools (1 Viewer)

[Galileo]

I am curious to know if any of your local school districts are implementing random drug testing programs, and if so, how's it working out?  Our local high school (grades 9-12) is considering it.  Anyone participating in extracurricular activities or participating in "privileges" like getting a parking permit to drive to school would be subjected to random drug tests throughout the school year.  Obviously, this large blanket would cover a significant portion of the student body.   The district administration was moving full steam ahead until a recent town hall type informational meeting had a pretty significant turnout on the negative side.  Of course, those against such policies would be more likely to show up at such a meeting than those who are in favor or just apathetic. 

I can see both good and bad in such a policy.  One of the main arguments for it is that it serves as a deterrent.  It gives students a reason to say no.  It gives them an out against peer pressure by allowing them to use the school as the bad guy.   The limited research I have seen on the effectiveness of such programs has been rather inconclusive.  On the flip side, of course, are the obvious questions about civil liberties and privacy to consider.  

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Seems like a huge waste of money.

also I totally would have chose dope over football and Quiz Bowl

 

[dschuler]

I’m for it.  The process is fairly streamlined today and doesn’t take up too much time.  Non steroid tests are inexpensive.  I did it maybe twice in high school and all the time in the military.  Most test the normal drugs you would expect (weed, cocaine) but also painkillers and other prescription drugs pop on them too.  

 

[TheWalkmen]

They used to walk drug dogs around our parking lot and hallways in high school. It was total bs.

 

[Galileo]

What kind of drugs do they get to test?   

Pretty much anything... THC, Cocaine, Opiates, Meth, Barbituates, PCP, Ecstasy...heck, even alcohol and nicotine.  They would use a 5 panel test, but would have the ability to swap in different drugs.  Some like THC and opiates would probably be regular and others rotated in.

 

[Galileo]

They used to walk drug dogs around our parking lot and hallways in high school. It was total bs.

They already do that in our high school and middle school

 

[Fishboy]

Our HS recently passed random testing.  Won't go into effect until July 2019, so my kids will be out by then.  

IMO it's all lip service.  I'm sure it'll be enforeced much like the alcohol/discipline policy currently in place.  Being one of the top sports schools in the conference/state, they always find a way to keep the top athletes eligible.  Heck, many of the baseball players suddenly were on the tennis team last year, just so they could sit out the tennis season on suspension for alcohol and be eligible for the baseball season and a trip to the state tournament.   

 

[Galileo]

Seems like a huge waste of money.

also I totally would have chose dope over football and Quiz Bowl

About $15 per test...they figure about $6-8k per year... really just a drop in the bucket for a $34 Million dollar budget, but they also claim there a several private donors willing to support such a program.

 

[Borden]

Interesting issue. What would happen to students who were caught as far as their record? Could a failed test prevent them from getting into a certain college or job?

 

[dschuler]

Pretty much anything... THC, Cocaine, Opiates, Meth, Barbituates, PCP, Ecstasy...heck, even alcohol and nicotine.  They would use a 5 panel test, but would have the ability to swap in different drugs.  Some like THC and opiates would probably be regular and others rotated in.

That would be more expensive and different than most government agencies to randomly test for drugs like that.  Meth doesn’t show up on a normal drug test.  

About $15 per test...they figure about $6-8k per year... really just a drop in the bucket for a $34 Million dollar budget, but they also claim there a several private donors willing to support such a program.

It doesn’t have to be $15 a pop.  If you are using standard urine tests, the kids pee about two thirds into the bottle.  You can do a dozen or so bottles together in a batch, so you don’t have to do them all individually.  Then the testing agency takes about half the piss out of each bottle and combines them and test the entire box as once batch.  If a drug shows up on the test, then the drug agency will test each bottle separately to find out who was doing the drug.  Of course, if you want to include nicotine, it seems like a giant waste of money because that would be a lot of extra testing the agency will have to do.

 

[Galileo]

Interesting issue. What would happen to students who were caught as far as their record? Could a failed test prevent them from getting into a certain college or job?

I know the plan at our school would not include anything on a student's record.  A positive result would require an assessment be done by a chemical dependency counselor to determine what, if any, type of treatment is needed before a student could be participate in activities again.  

 

[Johnny Rock]

I’ll handle the parenting thank you very much. 

 

[Borden]

I know the plan at our school would not include anything on a student's record.  A positive result would require an assessment be done by a chemical dependency counselor to determine what, if any, type of treatment is needed before a student could be participate in activities again.  

But people would notice if a student wasn’t at the game/event/etc. 

 

[Galileo]

In full disclosure, I was invited to be part of the committee to consider a testing program in our district.  As a teacher, parent, coach, and club advisor, I checked a few of the boxes...  Much to my dismay, at the first meeting of this committee (about 15 people), I found out it was not to decide IF we would have a program, but rather to shape the details of such a program.  I was the only one in the group who was against such a policy on general principal.  Even though I am against it, I can see some potential value in it if can help a kid.  

 

[Cjw_55106]

They used to walk drug dogs around our parking lot and hallways in high school. It was total bs.

I have no problem with this. I have a huge problem with people getting tested with no probable cause. 

 

[Galileo]

But people would notice if a student wasn’t at the game/event/etc. 

True, but that happens now without a testing program if a student is busted.

 

[parasaurolophus]

But people would notice if a student wasn’t at the game/event/etc. 

Dont do drugs. Problem solved. 

 

[Galileo]

I have no problem with this. I have a huge problem with people getting tested with no probable cause. 

The loophole is that they have to consent to it.  In order to participate in activities they would have to sign a consent form to be tested. 

 

[Borden]

True, but that happens now without a testing program if a student is bested.

I don’t understand. 

 

[Cjw_55106]

The loophole is that they have to consent to it.  In order to participate in activities they would have to sign a consent form to be tested. 

So dumb. So I can smoke weed anytime I want so long as I don’t want to be on the volleyball team. 

 

[Borden]

The more this is discussed the more it seems to be a bad idea. 

 

[Galileo]

I don’t understand. 

If Johnny football is busted for an alcohol or drug violation now, he is suspended from play.  People will notice that he is not in the game.  How does this affect college admission?  Nothing is on their transcript. 

 

[dschuler]

I have no problem with this. I have a huge problem with people getting tested with no probable cause. 

Why?  These kids aren’t adults, they aren’t going to Jail, court, or fired for being a student.  They call their parents and get drug counseling, what’s wrong with that?

 

[Galileo]

So dumb. So I can smoke weed anytime I want so long as I don’t want to be on the volleyball team. 

Or be in the school play...or the Quiz bowl team...or drive to school...  Or, I guess you could roll the dice and hope you aren't tested.  

 

[Borden]

If Johnny football is busted for an alcohol or drug violation now, he is suspended from play.  People will notice that he is not in the game.  How does this affect college admission?  Nothing is on their transcript. 

What do you think the first question that he’s going to get from recruiters? 

 

[Galileo]

What do you think the first question that he’s going to get from recruiters? 

But that could happen with or without a drug test

 

[Borden]

Or be in the school play...or the Quiz bowl team...or drive to school...  Or, I guess you could roll the dice and hope you aren't tested.  

It’s a deterrent though for kids to be part of a positive influence. 

 

[Borden]

But that could happen with or without a drug test

They don’t miss anything if they don’t get tested. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

The more this is discussed the more it seems to be a bad idea. 

Oh stop. There was no discussion that was going to get you to agree with it. 

Your first question was about it going on their record. You were told it wouldnt. You countered that people would know because they missed a game. 

It is fine to have the opinion you have, but dont pretend the discussion of it got you there.

 

[Galileo]

They don’t miss anything if they don’t get tested. 

Sure they do.  I have seen several kids busted on a Saturday night drinking at a party...or get caught smoking in the school restroom...or got caught passing perscription pills off to another student.  Stuff happens all the time that results in athletes getting suspended from play without ever having a drug test involved.

 

[Galileo]

It’s a deterrent though for kids to be part of a positive influence. 

This question has definitely come up in the dialogue...and it is a possibility that someone could choose not to participate in those activities.  We did consult a few other schools (hardly enough to establish sufficient data) about participation rates, and they all reported no effect on participation.  At least in those samples, students were not being deterred from activities.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Why?  These kids aren’t adults, they aren’t going to Jail, court, or fired for being a student.  They call their parents and get drug counseling, what’s wrong with that?

If I want help parenting, I’ll let them know. I can buy my own drug test kit if I want to. Simply put, it’s none of their business and highly unnecessary. 

 

[Borden]

Oh stop. There was no discussion that was going to get you to agree with it. 

Your first question was about it going on their record. You were told it wouldnt. You countered that people would know because they missed a game. 

It is fine to have the opinion you have, but dont pretend the discussion of it got you there.

I think the ability to give a student an out against peer pressure is a great potential outcome.

My next question seems like the next logical question in the line of long term negative impact of this. And my opinion started to sway against the random testing with the comment about just not playing volleyball to smoke weed. Also, the parenting aspect. 

 

[Borden]

This question has definitely come up in the dialogue...and it is a possibility that someone could choose not to participate in those activities.  We did consult a few other schools (hardly enough to establish sufficient data) about participation rates, and they all reported no effect on participation.  At least in those samples, students were not being deterred from activities.

I wouldn’t suspect that it would be an issue for the vast majority but it’s the few that might not even change the numbers that it helps the most. 

I suppose it it could be said that the kids who are willing to make the “sacrifice” and get the spots from the ones who wouldn’t give up drugs, probably deserve it more. 

 

[Galileo]

If I want help parenting, I’ll let them know. I can buy my own drug test kit if I want to. Simply put, it’s none of their business and highly unnecessary. 

In general, I agree with this premise.  It is one of the reasons I do not favor school testing, BUT it is amazing how many parents have blinders on when it comes to their own kids.  We'd all like to think "never my child".   Students will be the first to tell you they know many peers doing drugs.  We'll those are somebody's kids.  I also think back to all the crap I did back in high school.  My parents were oblivious.  

Lastly, a parent administered test could drive a wedge in the relationship with their child.  And, I get the whole step up and be a parent argument, but the fact is many parents won't.   Making the school the bad guy could be a positive in those situations.  

 

[bucksoh]

Im for it as long as they drug test all the staff.

 

[Borden]

In general, I agree with this premise.  It is one of the reasons I do not favor school testing, BUT it is amazing how many parents have blinders on when it comes to their own kids.  We'd all like to think "never my child".   Students will be the first to tell you they know many peers doing drugs.  We'll those are somebody's kids.  I also think back to all the crap I did back in high school.  My parents were oblivious.  

Lastly, a parent administered test could drive a wedge in the relationship with their child.  And, I get the whole step up and be a parent argument, but the fact is many parents won't.   Making the school the bad guy could be a positive in those situations.  

As not legal adults, isn’t parental consent needed?

 

[Ilov80s]

I am curious to know if any of your local school districts are implementing random drug testing programs, and if so, how's it working out?  Our local high school (grades 9-12) is considering it.  Anyone participating in extracurricular activities or participating in "privileges" like getting a parking permit to drive to school would be subjected to random drug tests throughout the school year.  Obviously, this large blanket would cover a significant portion of the student body.   The district administration was moving full steam ahead until a recent town hall type informational meeting had a pretty significant turnout on the negative side.  Of course, those against such policies would be more likely to show up at such a meeting than those who are in favor or just apathetic. 

I can see both good and bad in such a policy.  One of the main arguments for it is that it serves as a deterrent.  It gives students a reason to say no.  It gives them an out against peer pressure by allowing them to use the school as the bad guy.   The limited research I have seen on the effectiveness of such programs has been rather inconclusive.  On the flip side, of course, are the obvious questions about civil liberties and privacy to consider.  

A parking permit? Hell no

 

[Galileo]

As not legal adults, isn’t parental consent needed?

Yes...that consent would be given as part of the eligibility requirement to participate in extracurriculars

 

[Ilov80s]

Parents can cheaply and easily buy drug tests and administer them to their kids.

Schools should not be giving drug tests to students- random or otherwise (unless it is related to sports performance)

 

[Borden]

Yes...that consent would be given as part of the eligibility requirement to participate in extracurriculars

So this random testing is just tacked onto that. Gotchya. Obviously it would be tied together. 

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Preposterous. I don't have kids, so I have no dog in the fight, but I would vote against this with extreme prejudice if given the option to do so. 

 

[Cjw_55106]

On the plus side, it’s nice that some school districts have extra money laying around. 

 

[Ilov80s]

Preposterous. I don't have kids, so I have no dog in the fight, but I would vote against this with extreme prejudice if given the option to do so. 

Agreed. I am a high school teacher and if a student of mine got selected for this, I would tell them not to submit. 

 

[Hector Salamanca]

So stupid.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I know I was born too late as it is, but I feel for teenagers these days. Cyber bullying, random drug testing in schools, can't go to a party without 26 cameras streaming it live to the internet. Christ, it's gotta suck being young today. 

 

[Galileo]

Agreed. I am a high school teacher and if a student of mine got selected for this, I would tell them not to submit. 

Under the policy being considered, they would have every right to not submit to the test, however, they would forfeit there ability to participate in whatever extracurriculars they might be interested

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Under the policy being considered, they would have every right to not submit to the test, however, they would forfeit there ability to participate in whatever extracurriculars they might be interested

That's horse ####. That's going to affect their college admissions if they choose not to submit to this nanny-state nonsense. I'd tell the school to eat a bag of Dix. 

 

[Ilov80s]

Under the policy being considered, they would have every right to not submit to the test, however, they would forfeit there ability to participate in whatever extracurriculars they might be interested

I would need to judge every extracurricular activity that triggered their entry into the random drug testing program. Each should be judged individually. 

 

[Galileo]

So stupid.

Well, I do think it is well intended.  It is at least worthy of dialogue.  I know of 6 former graduates who have died of overdoses in the past couple years.