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RB Chuba Hubbard, CAR (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
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Gatorade
Footballguy
At this point, Coker is too much of an unknown to trust ROS.
thanks!
so you like Chuba enough? Do you think he can maintain, like, 80% of his current production?
jm192
Footballguy
I just don't think you can rely on Coker. I know he had a good game last week.
But Bryce Young doesn't give me confidence as far *** the pass catchers. Chuba will at least get hand offs and some dump offs.
I expect the to ease Brooks back in. The season is lost. No point in overworking your prized rookie RB that's coming back from an ACL injury
I've been trying to trade Chubba desperately prior to their bye week, but I'm starting to come around to this idea.
I actually think the CAR offense could be a bit...non disasterous....this week and next week against NYG and maybe they gain a little confidence going into the bye.
Don't love the schedule prior to the fantasy playoffs - Bye, KC, TB, @PHI - but then in the fantasy playoffs CAR faces DAL, AZ, @TB.
If Brooks is to be eased in, what would that look like? I'd think a couple here or there before he basically just slots into M. Sanders role.
If that happens, Chubba could retain a good chunk of his value ROS.
Wishful thinking? Maybe.
This doesn’t make sense. The Panthers don’t want to win games, so they won’t play Brooks over Chuba, because he would cause them to win games (meaning he’d perform better than Chuba). But they will play him over Sanders (who is inferior to Chuba), thereby increasing their risk of winning more games?
If Chubba stays Chubba that's pretty good for Chubba owners ROS.
jm192
Footballguy
I disagree with a couple of your takes here.This doesn’t make sense. The Panthers don’t want to win games, so they won’t play Brooks over Chuba, because he would cause them to win games (meaning he’d perform better than Chuba). But they will play him over Sanders (who is inferior to Chuba), thereby increasing their risk of winning more games?
1. I'm not sure Brooks is better than Chuba right away. Chuba is playing very well. Brooks is a rookie with no NFL experience AND he's coming off an ACL injury. While a lot of rookie RB's step in and succeed right away, the ACL adds a whole other layer to it. We typically see guys struggle that 1st year back, and look closer to themselves that 2nd season after the injury.
2. The Panthers RB situation isn't the difference in them winning/losing games. Bryce Young isn't a good QB. They traded away their best pass catcher. The Panthers are currently giving up the most points in the NFL. Brooks getting some carries, whether it's 5 or 30, won't be the reason they suddenly start winning games. Their future 1st round pick isn't going to get worse because Brooks elevated the team.
I think a smart football team brings Brooks in for ~5 touches/game the rest of the season. He can get a feel for the speed. He can get used to planting/cutting on the surgically repaired knee. Then next year, you make him the man.
Totally the rational thing to do.I disagree with a couple of your takes here.This doesn’t make sense. The Panthers don’t want to win games, so they won’t play Brooks over Chuba, because he would cause them to win games (meaning he’d perform better than Chuba). But they will play him over Sanders (who is inferior to Chuba), thereby increasing their risk of winning more games?
1. I'm not sure Brooks is better than Chuba right away. Chuba is playing very well. Brooks is a rookie with no NFL experience AND he's coming off an ACL injury. While a lot of rookie RB's step in and succeed right away, the ACL adds a whole other layer to it. We typically see guys struggle that 1st year back, and look closer to themselves that 2nd season after the injury.
2. The Panthers RB situation isn't the difference in them winning/losing games. Bryce Young isn't a good QB. They traded away their best pass catcher. The Panthers are currently giving up the most points in the NFL. Brooks getting some carries, whether it's 5 or 30, won't be the reason they suddenly start winning games. Their future 1st round pick isn't going to get worse because Brooks elevated the team.
I think a smart football team brings Brooks in for ~5 touches/game the rest of the season. He can get a feel for the speed. He can get used to planting/cutting on the surgically repaired knee. Then next year, you make him the man.
But how often are coaches and GMs rational?
Could see Brooks getting a handful of carries...he shows some burst and wiggle...local media gets excited...and then the "plan" goes off the rails.
These aren’t my takes; they are the rationales suggested in this thread as to why brooks is no threat to chuba.I disagree with a couple of your takes here.This doesn’t make sense. The Panthers don’t want to win games, so they won’t play Brooks over Chuba, because he would cause them to win games (meaning he’d perform better than Chuba). But they will play him over Sanders (who is inferior to Chuba), thereby increasing their risk of winning more games?
1. I'm not sure Brooks is better than Chuba right away. Chuba is playing very well. Brooks is a rookie with no NFL experience AND he's coming off an ACL injury. While a lot of rookie RB's step in and succeed right away, the ACL adds a whole other layer to it. We typically see guys struggle that 1st year back, and look closer to themselves that 2nd season after the injury.
2. The Panthers RB situation isn't the difference in them winning/losing games. Bryce Young isn't a good QB. They traded away their best pass catcher. The Panthers are currently giving up the most points in the NFL. Brooks getting some carries, whether it's 5 or 30, won't be the reason they suddenly start winning games. Their future 1st round pick isn't going to get worse because Brooks elevated the team.
I think a smart football team brings Brooks in for ~5 touches/game the rest of the season. He can get a feel for the speed. He can get used to planting/cutting on the surgically repaired knee. Then next year, you make him the man.
He’s not good enough to replace chuba
They want a higher pick, so they won’t play brooks (the only logical explanation for that is he’s better than Chuba & would give them a better chance to win, thus hurting their draft pick)
They will let him take Sanders’ role (which, again, would suggest he’d be better than sanders, and “help” them win, this hurting their draft stock)
The reality is that all of these arguments are contradicting each other. If they were worried he would help them win, they wouldn’t play him at all. If they think he’s healthy, the will want to see him on NFL game action.
What Brooks or Chuba (or worse, those of us with both) want is irrelevant. And no matter how many times we post on a ff message board about what we think they should do, they’ll do what is best for their franchise.
And what’s best is to give him NFL playing experience if/when he’s healthy. And that will hurt Chuba’s FF value. Best case scenarios are: he doesn’t come of IR & Chuba stays the workhouse, OR he comes off IR & clearly supplants Chuba, and brooks becomes the workhorse.
If Brooks comes back soon and is effective and they dont want to win I can see them splitting the baby....basically getting brooks enough reps to help him get aclimated to the NFL by replacing Sanders as the #2 back and in that case Chubba's value would change very little.These aren’t my takes; they are the rationales suggested in this thread as to why brooks is no threat to chuba.I disagree with a couple of your takes here.This doesn’t make sense. The Panthers don’t want to win games, so they won’t play Brooks over Chuba, because he would cause them to win games (meaning he’d perform better than Chuba). But they will play him over Sanders (who is inferior to Chuba), thereby increasing their risk of winning more games?
1. I'm not sure Brooks is better than Chuba right away. Chuba is playing very well. Brooks is a rookie with no NFL experience AND he's coming off an ACL injury. While a lot of rookie RB's step in and succeed right away, the ACL adds a whole other layer to it. We typically see guys struggle that 1st year back, and look closer to themselves that 2nd season after the injury.
2. The Panthers RB situation isn't the difference in them winning/losing games. Bryce Young isn't a good QB. They traded away their best pass catcher. The Panthers are currently giving up the most points in the NFL. Brooks getting some carries, whether it's 5 or 30, won't be the reason they suddenly start winning games. Their future 1st round pick isn't going to get worse because Brooks elevated the team.
I think a smart football team brings Brooks in for ~5 touches/game the rest of the season. He can get a feel for the speed. He can get used to planting/cutting on the surgically repaired knee. Then next year, you make him the man.
He’s not good enough to replace chuba
They want a higher pick, so they won’t play brooks (the only logical explanation for that is he’s better than Chuba & would give them a better chance to win, thus hurting their draft pick)
They will let him take Sanders’ role (which, again, would suggest he’d be better than sanders, and “help” them win, this hurting their draft stock)
The reality is that all of these arguments are contradicting each other. If they were worried he would help them win, they wouldn’t play him at all. If they think he’s healthy, the will want to see him on NFL game action.
What Brooks or Chuba (or worse, those of us with both) want is irrelevant. And no matter how many times we post on a ff message board about what we think they should do, they’ll do what is best for their franchise.
And what’s best is to give him NFL playing experience if/when he’s healthy. And that will hurt Chuba’s FF value. Best case scenarios are: he doesn’t come of IR & Chuba stays the workhouse, OR he comes off IR & clearly supplants Chuba, and brooks becomes the workhorse.
jm192
Footballguy
I agree they'll do what's best for the franchise.These aren’t my takes; they are the rationales suggested in this thread as to why brooks is no threat to chuba.I disagree with a couple of your takes here.This doesn’t make sense. The Panthers don’t want to win games, so they won’t play Brooks over Chuba, because he would cause them to win games (meaning he’d perform better than Chuba). But they will play him over Sanders (who is inferior to Chuba), thereby increasing their risk of winning more games?
1. I'm not sure Brooks is better than Chuba right away. Chuba is playing very well. Brooks is a rookie with no NFL experience AND he's coming off an ACL injury. While a lot of rookie RB's step in and succeed right away, the ACL adds a whole other layer to it. We typically see guys struggle that 1st year back, and look closer to themselves that 2nd season after the injury.
2. The Panthers RB situation isn't the difference in them winning/losing games. Bryce Young isn't a good QB. They traded away their best pass catcher. The Panthers are currently giving up the most points in the NFL. Brooks getting some carries, whether it's 5 or 30, won't be the reason they suddenly start winning games. Their future 1st round pick isn't going to get worse because Brooks elevated the team.
I think a smart football team brings Brooks in for ~5 touches/game the rest of the season. He can get a feel for the speed. He can get used to planting/cutting on the surgically repaired knee. Then next year, you make him the man.
He’s not good enough to replace chuba
They want a higher pick, so they won’t play brooks (the only logical explanation for that is he’s better than Chuba & would give them a better chance to win, thus hurting their draft pick)
They will let him take Sanders’ role (which, again, would suggest he’d be better than sanders, and “help” them win, this hurting their draft stock)
The reality is that all of these arguments are contradicting each other. If they were worried he would help them win, they wouldn’t play him at all. If they think he’s healthy, the will want to see him on NFL game action.
What Brooks or Chuba (or worse, those of us with both) want is irrelevant. And no matter how many times we post on a ff message board about what we think they should do, they’ll do what is best for their franchise.
And what’s best is to give him NFL playing experience if/when he’s healthy. And that will hurt Chuba’s FF value. Best case scenarios are: he doesn’t come of IR & Chuba stays the workhouse, OR he comes off IR & clearly supplants Chuba, and brooks becomes the workhorse.
Giving Brooks a ton of carries in a wasted year is NOT what's best for the franchise. Why put extra wear/tear on him in a lost year? Why risk injury by giving him a work horse load or even a split?
Chuba isn't part of the future. The smart move for the franchise is to give Brooks a few carries per game, like 5 or 6, let him get his feet wet and get used to the NFL speed--and largely save him for next year.
jm192
Footballguy
Yeah. I just don't see them wanting to give Brooks a ton of work in any scenario. They need to think long term. The long term move is to let Hubbard take most of the hits this year, and give Brooks just enough work to get his feet wet and ready for next year.If Brooks comes back soon and is effective and they dont want to win I can see them splitting the baby....basically getting brooks enough reps to help him get aclimated to the NFL by replacing Sanders as the #2 back and in that case Chubba's value would change very little.These aren’t my takes; they are the rationales suggested in this thread as to why brooks is no threat to chuba.I disagree with a couple of your takes here.This doesn’t make sense. The Panthers don’t want to win games, so they won’t play Brooks over Chuba, because he would cause them to win games (meaning he’d perform better than Chuba). But they will play him over Sanders (who is inferior to Chuba), thereby increasing their risk of winning more games?
1. I'm not sure Brooks is better than Chuba right away. Chuba is playing very well. Brooks is a rookie with no NFL experience AND he's coming off an ACL injury. While a lot of rookie RB's step in and succeed right away, the ACL adds a whole other layer to it. We typically see guys struggle that 1st year back, and look closer to themselves that 2nd season after the injury.
2. The Panthers RB situation isn't the difference in them winning/losing games. Bryce Young isn't a good QB. They traded away their best pass catcher. The Panthers are currently giving up the most points in the NFL. Brooks getting some carries, whether it's 5 or 30, won't be the reason they suddenly start winning games. Their future 1st round pick isn't going to get worse because Brooks elevated the team.
I think a smart football team brings Brooks in for ~5 touches/game the rest of the season. He can get a feel for the speed. He can get used to planting/cutting on the surgically repaired knee. Then next year, you make him the man.
He’s not good enough to replace chuba
They want a higher pick, so they won’t play brooks (the only logical explanation for that is he’s better than Chuba & would give them a better chance to win, thus hurting their draft pick)
They will let him take Sanders’ role (which, again, would suggest he’d be better than sanders, and “help” them win, this hurting their draft stock)
The reality is that all of these arguments are contradicting each other. If they were worried he would help them win, they wouldn’t play him at all. If they think he’s healthy, the will want to see him on NFL game action.
What Brooks or Chuba (or worse, those of us with both) want is irrelevant. And no matter how many times we post on a ff message board about what we think they should do, they’ll do what is best for their franchise.
And what’s best is to give him NFL playing experience if/when he’s healthy. And that will hurt Chuba’s FF value. Best case scenarios are: he doesn’t come of IR & Chuba stays the workhouse, OR he comes off IR & clearly supplants Chuba, and brooks becomes the workhorse.
This is also the Panthers, who aren't exactly a well run franchise. So he could wind up with 25 carries per game. It doesn't make logical sense, but I guess time will tell.
If this all ends up being true, Chubba will end up on many championship rosters.
Playoff Schedule: DAL, @AZ, TB. All terrible run Ds.
Bryce wasn't too bad either last week. Could see some improvement today as well against a banged up NO secondary and maybe this game is close.
If the CAR offense can be...non-terrible...Chubba and this offense could make some noise down the stretch. Have my eye on Coker too.
Playoff Schedule: DAL, @AZ, TB. All terrible run Ds.
Bryce wasn't too bad either last week. Could see some improvement today as well against a banged up NO secondary and maybe this game is close.
If the CAR offense can be...non-terrible...Chubba and this offense could make some noise down the stretch. Have my eye on Coker too.
Gatorade
Footballguy
Maybe not 80% if Brooks plays, but he will at least be most consistent.
pack66
Footballguy
I don't think this team is trying to tank. This may be a lost season, but most franchises still want to win games.
I think they believe they think they have something in Coker and Legette and took the best offer they could for Johnson to better their team for next year. They wouldn't have started Young were it not for the accident.
I'm in the camp that they'll still ease in Brooks. If the knee reacts well, you may see a split. The Packers were 2-5 at week 9 last year. The talk was about the Packers drafting another QB in 2024. I'm not saying Young is good, but there's a lot of season still left for Brooks to find his role.
I think they believe they think they have something in Coker and Legette and took the best offer they could for Johnson to better their team for next year. They wouldn't have started Young were it not for the accident.
I'm in the camp that they'll still ease in Brooks. If the knee reacts well, you may see a split. The Packers were 2-5 at week 9 last year. The talk was about the Packers drafting another QB in 2024. I'm not saying Young is good, but there's a lot of season still left for Brooks to find his role.
Runkle
Footballguy
If Chuba can't get going when he's the sole back against the Saints, hard to trust him in the later matchups when Brooks is in the mix taking even a small percentage of the work
RaidersAreOne
Footballguy
Who needs Brooks. Keep feeding Chuba!
The Panthers do. Hubbard a free agent and may walk (Dallas).
So Carolina needs to know what they have.
Honestly, considering how RBs are valued, it wouldn't surprise me at all if CAR tries to sign him. Having a 1-2 punch is a thing these days.
RaidersAreOne
Footballguy
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
Well that seems like a lot of money doesn't it.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Congrats man. Love your game. Having said that. Just a bad 4 year investment with sooooo many issues on roster.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
What are these guys doing? And right before their 2nd round RB is set to return. At least see what you have in Brooks first.
Such a terribly run organization.
Such a terribly run organization.
zamboni
Footballguy
Yeah, that's a bit baffling. If Brooks turns out to be anything they thought he could be, they could let Hubbard walk, let someone else pay him, and use those resources for a bigger issue of need.
Big Nate
Footballguy
Just because you drafted Brooks doesn't make Chuba bad. Chuba has actually been REALLY GOOD this year.
Also, NFL teams are going with more rotations and with so many RB injuries you need multiple backs.
He's RB #7 on the year. Nearly 800 yards from scrimmage, 5ypc and 6 total TDs. He's been the bright spot on this team.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
What if Brooks turns it as good as they hoped? I’m sure they didn’t take him in the 2nd thinking he’d be a good complimentary back. Chubba could be a very highly overpaid RB2 on his own team.
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
Yes. And I think signing him up long term is a good thing.
I think the size of the contract is more the issue. Was he getting anything near to those numbers on the open market?
I highly doubt it.
Big Nate
Footballguy
I like Brooks, I'm a fan but the reality is he hasn't done anything yet in the NFL. Yes I know he was injured and they are smart bringing him back slow (and I'm cheering for him to do well) but he still hasn't done anything in the NFL. He's also a rookie that may take some time to get up to speed in the NFL. It happens often with rookies. Let the kid grow and take his time.
It can be the 1-2 punch like DET does or even ATL. I think Gibbs playing behind Monty has been a good thing (I'm a multiple league GIbbs owner). No pressure to be the guy and he can learn from a true vet. Monty is an amazing leader and great guy to learn behind. I think the same can be said for Chuba and bringing Brooks along the next year or 2.
I believe they can get out from Sanders contract next year and save 5-6M.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
But then wait to extend Hubbard to see what you have in Brooks. Why extent him now?
zoonation
Footballguy
Brooks was never going to walk in and take meaningful snaps halfway through the season coming off a major injury with no camp and no reps.
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
That's two RB's on their roster with starting contract level money. And a 2nd round pick as well.
Big Nate
Footballguy
There was no way Brooks was taking over this year coming off an ACL tear. I said it at the start of the season but people didn't want to believe it.
While players can play a year after ACL surgery it is year 2 when they are truly 100%. It happens for almost every RB. even Barkley said it. Dalvin Cook said it too. The only one that did it year 1 was the freak Adrian Peterson. But that isn't normal. Even the surgeon said he had never seen knees that clean, that pristine when he went through surgery.
Big Nate
Footballguy
This can't be stated enough and why I compared it to Monty in DET. It is huge.
We play fantasy football for fun. The coaches and NFL teams are playing the real games and Chuba has been fantastic for both production and in the locker room.
Big Nate
Footballguy
I'm pretty sure they can get out from Sanders contract and save money this offseason.
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
Yeah this seems fundamental.
He's essentially been a beacon for them in a period of complete shambles and he doesn't seem like your average, fairly moronic player.
zamboni
Footballguy
You do have to give them credit for recognizing and taking care of one of their best players this year and seemingly a team leader. But as you say, they could have also waited until March to see more broadly what their needs are.
Correct, no more guaranteed for Sanders after this year and they save $5M cutting him next year. Chubba's extension is actually bigger than Miles FA contract from a year ago (slightly more guaranteed, a lot more in total) so I think that speaks volumes about how they feel about him going forward.
JamboTaylor
Footballguy
Locks him into a prominent role you’d imagine?
