Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Has this ever happened prior?
DeShaun Watson contract play some role in all of this?
DeShaun Watson contract play some role in all of this?
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RB Quinshon Judkins, CLE (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter JohnnyU
- Start date
MAC_32
Footballguy
...and he had an axe to grind with snake oil Jimmy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Not that I can think of. There is just that small window between the draft when the players would sign. This year that signing window got extended a bit because of the odd situation with the Texans fully guaranteeing Jayden Higgins contract and this caused a holdup with Judkins because now he also wanted his deal fully guaranteed.
TripItUp
Footballguy
The good news is we'll get to find out. My opinion is that the Browns want him to play this year based on the draft capital.
It would be nearly if not totally unprecedented if Judkins didn't have a significant role this season. He is an entire tier above Sampson.
Judkins is the current SOD in most formats IMHO.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
When they took him in May they certainly wanted him to play this year. The events of July and August paint a different story though.
TripItUp
Footballguy
Agree to disagree, barring an unprecedented decision/event, Judkins will play a significant amount this year and at a very high level. IMHO.
electric Ape
Footballguy
I don't take any offense, we're all just speculating about imaginary football on here
Maybe the situation is clear for you but certainly I'm not the only person who finds it hard to fully understand. I just saw an interview with Mary Kay Cabot who is often in the know and she described the situation as "a total mystery." A different recent interview with Tony Grossi was closer to your perspective, he believes the contract is not the hold up and that as soon as the NFL provides clarity a deal will be reached immediately. Mary Kay Cabot also referenced a direct conversation she had with Jimmy Haslam where he said he was "cautiously optimistic" and that Judkins would play for the team this season.
I guess the area where we're all a little in the dark is what information does the NFL have and is there evidence we're not aware of. There are pieces of evidence that have leaked that are very pro Judkins (video evidence of the alleged victim without bruises that may contradict her testimony and timeline). If there isn't more to the story or problematic evidence that hasn't been reported then why are the Browns being so tight lipped, especially in contrast to the way they've backed and defended Bond?
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Reminder, it is only an accusation.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Roger has an axe to grind with Jimmy. He's in no rush to make a decision. He knows he holds the cards and there's nothing the Browns can do about it.I don't take any offense, we're all just speculating about imaginary football on here
Maybe the situation is clear for you but certainly I'm not the only person who finds it hard to fully understand. I just saw an interview with Mary Kay Cabot who is often in the know and she described the situation as "a total mystery." A different recent interview with Tony Grossi was closer to your perspective, he believes the contract is not the hold up and that as soon as the NFL provides clarity a deal will be reached immediately. Mary Kay Cabot also referenced a direct conversation she had with Jimmy Haslam where he said he was "cautiously optimistic" and that Judkins would play for the team this season.
I guess the area where we're all a little in the dark is what information does the NFL have and is there evidence we're not aware of. There are pieces of evidence that have leaked that are very pro Judkins (video evidence of the alleged victim without bruises that may contradict her testimony and timeline). If there isn't more to the story or problematic evidence that hasn't been reported then why are the Browns being so tight lipped, especially in contrast to the way they've backed and defended Bond?
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Roger has an axe to grind with Jimmy. He's in no rush to make a decision. He knows he holds the cards and there's nothing the Browns can do about it.I don't take any offense, we're all just speculating about imaginary football on here
Maybe the situation is clear for you but certainly I'm not the only person who finds it hard to fully understand. I just saw an interview with Mary Kay Cabot who is often in the know and she described the situation as "a total mystery." A different recent interview with Tony Grossi was closer to your perspective, he believes the contract is not the hold up and that as soon as the NFL provides clarity a deal will be reached immediately. Mary Kay Cabot also referenced a direct conversation she had with Jimmy Haslam where he said he was "cautiously optimistic" and that Judkins would play for the team this season.
I guess the area where we're all a little in the dark is what information does the NFL have and is there evidence we're not aware of. There are pieces of evidence that have leaked that are very pro Judkins (video evidence of the alleged victim without bruises that may contradict her testimony and timeline). If there isn't more to the story or problematic evidence that hasn't been reported then why are the Browns being so tight lipped, especially in contrast to the way they've backed and defended Bond?
Dont understand how thats affecting them from signing the kid
MAC_32
Footballguy
I've mentioned the commish exempt list multiple times and I'm not the only one.Roger has an axe to grind with Jimmy. He's in no rush to make a decision. He knows he holds the cards and there's nothing the Browns can do about it.I don't take any offense, we're all just speculating about imaginary football on here
Maybe the situation is clear for you but certainly I'm not the only person who finds it hard to fully understand. I just saw an interview with Mary Kay Cabot who is often in the know and she described the situation as "a total mystery." A different recent interview with Tony Grossi was closer to your perspective, he believes the contract is not the hold up and that as soon as the NFL provides clarity a deal will be reached immediately. Mary Kay Cabot also referenced a direct conversation she had with Jimmy Haslam where he said he was "cautiously optimistic" and that Judkins would play for the team this season.
I guess the area where we're all a little in the dark is what information does the NFL have and is there evidence we're not aware of. There are pieces of evidence that have leaked that are very pro Judkins (video evidence of the alleged victim without bruises that may contradict her testimony and timeline). If there isn't more to the story or problematic evidence that hasn't been reported then why are the Browns being so tight lipped, especially in contrast to the way they've backed and defended Bond?
Dont understand how thats affecting them from signing the kid
Roger has an axe to grind with Jimmy. He's in no rush to make a decision. He knows he holds the cards and there's nothing the Browns can do abI don't take any offense, we're all just speculating about imaginary football on here
Maybe the situation is clear for you but certainly I'm not the only person who finds it hard to fully understand. I just saw an interview with Mary Kay Cabot who is often in the know and she described the situation as "a total mystery." A different recent interview with Tony Grossi was closer to your perspective, he believes the contract is not the hold up and that as soon as the NFL provides clarity a deal will be reached immediately. Mary Kay Cabot also referenced a direct conversation she had with Jimmy Haslam where he said he was "cautiously optimistic" and that Judkins would play for the team this season.
I guess the area where we're all a little in the dark is what information does the NFL have and is there evidence we're not aware of. There are pieces of evidence that have leaked that are very pro Judkins (video evidence of the alleged victim without bruises that may contradict her testimony and timeline). If there isn't more to the story or problematic evidence that hasn't been reported then why are the Browns being so tight lipped, especially in contrast to the way they've backed and defended Bond?
Roger has an axe to grind with Jimmy. He's in no rush to make a decision. He knows he holds the cards and there's nothing the Browns can do about it.I don't take any offense, we're all just speculating about imaginary football on here
Maybe the situation is clear for you but certainly I'm not the only person who finds it hard to fully understand. I just saw an interview with Mary Kay Cabot who is often in the know and she described the situation as "a total mystery." A different recent interview with Tony Grossi was closer to your perspective, he believes the contract is not the hold up and that as soon as the NFL provides clarity a deal will be reached immediately. Mary Kay Cabot also referenced a direct conversation she had with Jimmy Haslam where he said he was "cautiously optimistic" and that Judkins would play for the team this season.
I guess the area where we're all a little in the dark is what information does the NFL have and is there evidence we're not aware of. There are pieces of evidence that have leaked that are very pro Judkins (video evidence of the alleged victim without bruises that may contradict her testimony and timeline). If there isn't more to the story or problematic evidence that hasn't been reported then why are the Browns being so tight lipped, especially in contrast to the way they've backed and defended Bond?
I agree with you, but I don’t know if it would be different for any other team. In fact I think the NFL has told them not to sign him yet. I think most of us realize it’s not a contract issue. There’s gotta be something else going on.
It’s impossible for us to really know what’s going on without hearing from QJ. But I think it says a lot that we haven’t heard from him. Unless I’m mistaken. I haven’t really read anything other than the ASA report.
My guess is that the pictures are bad. Very bad. Or maybe the NFL just fears that they are bad. Either way, if you combine that with the fact that the report says that the injuries could be explained by his own story it’s easy to see why they haven’t signed him. Imagine pictures of her with a black eye and bruised up face. The NFL does not want another Ray Rice situation. Just the fear of that alone screams CE list to me.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
No criminal charges, the NFL is negotiating a suspension with the NFLPA. It happens with EVERY suspension. Once the NFL and the NFLPA hash it out, then we'll know.
No mystery.
How isn't this common knowledge by now?
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Is it? Can you confirm the NFL has collected enough evidence, determined they want to suspend and has begun negotiating?
Because the last update we have is the NFL will conduct its own investigation when they see fit. So please provide a link to the most update sourse you have.
Please and thank you
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ericttspikes
Footballguy
Had my 12 team dynasty draft last night. I have an aging RB group so wanted RBs. Took Judkins at 1.10 (RBs already taken; Jeanty, Henderson, Hampton, Harvey, Johnson in that order). We don't do snake, so came back with Tuten 2.10 to pair with Etienne.
Viewed Judkins as a worthy risk/reward pick there. Don't really need him this year. He's not hurt. Only 21. My guess he'd of been a top 5 dynasty pick if the preseason played out differently and he was signed. If Joe Mixon could have an NFL career, I have to think Judkins can, who's legal transgressions so far pale Mixon's. Well see.
Viewed Judkins as a worthy risk/reward pick there. Don't really need him this year. He's not hurt. Only 21. My guess he'd of been a top 5 dynasty pick if the preseason played out differently and he was signed. If Joe Mixon could have an NFL career, I have to think Judkins can, who's legal transgressions so far pale Mixon's. Well see.
MAC_32
Footballguy
No, of course not. You have the same access to information that we do. Speaking from strictly my perspective, the lack of critical thinking being demonstrated in this thread is just increasingly annoying. This is a team that's made it very, very clear what's available in their wallet is only limited by league cash constraints. 'Something else is going on' is right and barring a serious curveball the only logical conclusion is it's being driven by the league. What is that? We may or may not find out, but if there's anything to speculate on it's at them, and them alone.
My speculation is it's axe grinding from Roger towards Jimmy. It also could be some incriminating evidence at the expense of Judkins. Or Roger has toes for thumbs and **** for brains then can't figure out why him hitting the 'suspend now' button results in error code responses. Etc.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
True about Mixon though the scenrio was a little different. His incident occured when he was 18 and he was suspended his freshman year from college. He then had 2 years in college to prove himself on and off the field. There was some distance between the incident and the draft. Teams knew what they were getting into when taking him. Still, it seems like only a matter of time before Judkins plays.
midnight_green81
Footballguy
Returning to college not an option apparently
www.nbcsports.com
Still unsigned, Quinshon Judkins is not considering a return to college football
With a Week 1 intra-Ohio battle looming for the Browns, they still don't have on the team a running back who played most recently for The Ohio State University.
www.nbcsports.com
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
My gut is that he and his agent expect this to be resolved soon, otherwise he would be pushing to play college ball this season and get paid that way.Returning to college not an option apparently
Still unsigned, Quinshon Judkins is not considering a return to college football
With a Week 1 intra-Ohio battle looming for the Browns, they still don't have on the team a running back who played most recently for The Ohio State University.
Of course, he could also simply have a moron for an agent.
ZADO
Footballguy
I picked him at the end of the 14th rd
Ray Barboni
Footballguy
Had to early declare taxi squad this morning in order for our system to process a trade (RTsports). We can edit the taxi squad up until kickoff next week, but I've got Quinshon there currently.
(HULK)
(Smash)
Me too.
Really need some info to come out. Can't make a clean decision based on the scant details we have currently.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Enough evidence of what? The criminal evidence was overwhelming, multiple videos, those from hotel lobbies, carports, entryways, clubs, and the photos taken by the 'alleged' victim that didn't match. Multiple texts over a month's worth, multiple witness testimonies, the testimonies from Judkins and the 'alleged' victim. Do think the NFL wants MORE EVIDENCE over the flood that has been reported by professional criminal investigators?
There is more than enough evidence gathered. Discovery can take no more than 3 days prior to the hearing.
THAT'S THE CATCH that people don't quite get.
We don't know the NFL docket, what other cases they are investigating or have to contend with. We've seen in the past the process last over a year. They are on another time standard unknown to Plebian fans. We know the NFL already has the evidence from the professional criminal investigation and that is shared by the NFLPA who has a procedure. The league has a system of fines and suspensions for various infractions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement that was agreed upon by the NFL and NFL Players Association back in 2020.
Understanding the NFL’s new process for imposing discipline under Personal Conduct Policy
... The latest CBA, finalized in March 2020, incorporates a Disciplinary Officer who makes the threshold decision as to whether a player will be suspended, and for how long. The Disciplinary Officer is jointly hired and compensated by the league and the NFLPA, a key change to the prior protocol that was run completely by the Commissioner and/or those who report to him.
The process begins with the league notifying the player of the potential violation for which discipline may be imposed. And while it’s not spelled out expressly in the policy, the league undoubtedly will recommend or request a specific duration of suspension. The Disciplinary Officer then proceeds to evaluate the situation. The process can, but is not required to, culminate in a full-blown evidentiary hearing.
Things get interesting once the Disciplinary Officer issues a decision. The Commissioner, or his hand-picked designee, continues to have full authority over the appeal. Based on the language of the policy, the Commissioner has broad powers when it comes to reviewing, revising, or reversing the Disciplinary Officer’s decision: “The decision of the Commissioner or his designee, which may overturn, reduce, modify or increase the discipline previously issued, will be final and binding on all parties.”
There’s an important caveat. While the Commissioner has the power to “overturn, reduce, modify or increase the discipline previously issued,” the Commissioner cannot alter a decision to not discipline the player at all. The league office has indeed confirmed that, if the Disciplinary Officer finds that there should be no discipline at all, the case is over.
That said, if any discipline whatsoever is imposed by the Disciplinary Officer (including, presumably, even a fine), the Commissioner has the power to “modify or increase” the punishment to whatever he wants it to be.
Thus, the Commissioner continues to have full and final say over all discipline under the Personal Conduct Policy. The Commissioner’s powers become short-circuited only if/when the Disciplinary Officer concludes that the player should experience no discipline. If any discipline is imposed, the Commissioner can change it in any way that he wants. With no appeal rights beyond that.
The changes to the policy would have been much more meaningful if the Commissioner made the first decision and then independent appeal rights activated. The policy as revised simply cuts the Commissioner out of the middle of the process, putting the bulk of the work on the Disciplinary Officer before the Commissioner (or his designee) swoops in with full and complete power to do whatever he wants, unless the Disciplinary Officer decides that the player should not be punished in any way.
----------
The above was in reference to Deshuan Watson's case review which took over A YEAR because of the tag line they added at the end:
...For Watson, the good news is that if he can persuade the Disciplinary Officer that no violation occurred, the Commissioner can’t do anything about it. If the Disciplinary Officer disagrees and imposes any discipline at all, the Commissioner can rip up the decision and replace it with his own. And Watson will have no recourse.
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Substitute Judkins for Watson and it means the NFL obviously has the evidence already collected which is more than enough. Discovery requires all evidence MUST be submitted 3 days prior to a hearing.
Then the Disciplinary Officer who is a rep of the NFLPA determines the evidence and IF the violation would merit a suspension or fine.
If no fine suspension, game over, no action against the player.
If ANYTHING was worthy of a fine or suspension, the Disciplinary Officer gives his recommendation of what it would deem a reasonable punishment.
The NFL Commissioner chuckles, pats him on the head and gives him a cookie and pushes him out the door.
Once the door closes, he sighs, loudly flatulates, takes a swig of whiskey, drops down on the couch and proceeds to take his good ole time going over everything before passing out drooling into a Flaming Hot Cheetos stupor. When he eventually wakes up, could take days, months, a year. He gathers himself and strolls down from on-high and hands down HIS final say.
We would already know if the Disciplinary Officer hadn't found enough to recommend no punishment because it would have already been over. He found 'something' so it is in the hands of Goodell.
He's a busy man, got a lot of hands to shake, contracts to sign, babies to kiss, mountains to climb, ships to christen.
He'll get round to it ... EVENTUALLY.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Anyone know what this post is about?
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Not me
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I do. It not about gathering evidence, it's in Rodgers' hands and he takes his time.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Yep. Because he is making it all up as he goes along. Goodell has no core principles to operate under, it’s all basically his own personal Ouija board that he uses to make every decision.
