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RB Trey Sermon, IND (3 Viewers)

Started Sermon Wk.1 (lost my RB2, Dobbins,) yanked at last second for J. Jackson flier......

Started Wk.2, patiently waited for his moment, 8 yds and a cloud of concussion protocols.....

Starting Sermon again this week with depleted RB Corp confidence! This will be his coming out game.

Shanny will have finally found his bellcow. No more Shanahanigans.

 
On my bench behind Kyle Pitts, Javonte Williams and James White.

I want to believe but...just can't.

 
Chaka said:
On my bench behind Kyle Pitts, Javonte Williams and James White.

I want to believe but...just can't.
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Yeah...I thankfully have him where I am ok at RB...but give him a couple performances and at least he can make decisions harder.

 
Gotta tell you all at this point I am starting Ty'son Williams ahead of Sermon.  I would like to see Sermon have a good game before plugging him in.

 
TripItUp said:
Hasty and Mitchell are not in the same stratosphere as Sermon.
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Two options here:

1) Are they in the Mesosphere?

Thermosphere?

Not the Exosphere! Is it the Exosphere?

2) Ah. So I see you are a believer in the multiverse.

Eta: One more

3) Which stratosphere are they in? Jupiter? Saturn? Planet Zero? Seti Alpha 6? LV-426?

ETA 2: 

4) JERK STORE!!!

 
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Jamesinaz said:
Gotta tell you all at this point I am starting Ty'son Williams ahead of Sermon.  I would like to see Sermon have a good game before plugging him in.
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That's a smart move. TDs will be hard for Williams to consistently tally but he is getter solid, consistent volume as both a runner and receiver and performing well with his opportunities.

Sermon may be all world but we simply know nothing about him as a pro yet...well nothing good.

 
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Chaka said:
That's a smart move. TDs will be hard for Williams to consistently tally but he is getter solid, consistent volume as both a runner and receiver and performing well with his opportunities.

Sermon may be all world but we simply know nothing about him as a pro yet...well nothing good.
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I wonder if anyone's bothered that it took three injuries to not-special running backs for the him to get a shot. 

Is the thinking, "Bonus! Now that JaMychal Hasty is injured, the path is clear..."?? 

 
massraider said:
I wonder if anyone's bothered that it took three injuries to not-special running backs for the him to get a shot. 

Is the thinking, "Bonus! Now that JaMychal Hasty is injured, the path is clear..."?? 
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Well, I think that is a valid thought. He is last man standing.

The real question is why did Mitchell and Hasty pass him on the depth chart (although Hasty's ST play is a big factor).

It seems unlikely that it is a physical talent issue. My gut says Sermon is having trouble with all of the assignments at the position. Hitting the right gap, identifying blitzes, reading defenses etc.

Which leads to the bigger question of is this simply a repetition issue that needs a a few more weeks to figure out OR are we witnessing the birth of Christine Michael 2.0?

 
Chaka said:
Well, I think that is a valid thought. He is last man standing.

The real question is why did Mitchell and Hasty pass him on the depth chart (although Hasty's ST play is a big factor).

It seems unlikely that it is a physical talent issue. My gut says Sermon is having trouble with all of the assignments at the position. Hitting the right gap, identifying blitzes, reading defenses etc.

Which leads to the bigger question of is this simply a repetition issue that needs a a few more weeks to figure out OR are we witnessing the birth of Christine Michael 2.0?
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This is completely uncalled for at this point. I'd like to see him fail miserably for more than one play before accepting that declaration. 

 
Chaka said:
Well, I think that is a valid thought. He is last man standing.

The real question is why did Mitchell and Hasty pass him on the depth chart (although Hasty's ST play is a big factor).

It seems unlikely that it is a physical talent issue. My gut says Sermon is having trouble with all of the assignments at the position. Hitting the right gap, identifying blitzes, reading defenses etc.

Which leads to the bigger question of is this simply a repetition issue that needs a a few more weeks to figure out OR are we witnessing the birth of Christine Michael 2.0?
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I don't think the niners view Hasty as an early down back... he's been in the system the longest plus he's their best receiving back so he gets PT regardless on certain passing downs. He's also a pretty talented runner in his own right, just not durable and big enough to endure the rigors of a full time gig.

The rest of the RB snaps will be broken down between Sermon and Mitchell. Their styles are so different that I can see shanahan playing both extensively week to week depending on gameplan. I expect something similar to Coleman/Mostert a la 2019. I don't think there's a pot of gold at the end of this rainbow unless injuries dictate otherwise.

 
Ruffrodys05 said:
This is completely uncalled for at this point. I'd like to see him fail miserably for more than one play before accepting that declaration. 
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It has nothing to do with the one play. It was a great run followed by an illegal hit. I thought I was clear about that.

The big question is why was he a healthy scratch? Why did he not see a snap until 4:30 in the 4th, IMO not coincidentally, after they went up 2 scores? That's a red flag. That says the HC doesn't have confidence in the player. I am completely open to arguments that dispute that notion so let's hear him.

Let me be clear I am not saying he IS Christine Michael, but nobody thought Christine Michael was Christine Michael as a rookie.

 
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chinawildman said:
I don't think the niners view Hasty as an early down back... he's been in the system the longest plus he's their best receiving back so he gets PT regardless on certain passing downs. He's also a pretty talented runner in his own right, just not durable and big enough to endure the rigors of a full time gig.

The rest of the RB snaps will be broken down between Sermon and Mitchell. Their styles are so different that I can see shanahan playing both extensively week to week depending on gameplan. I expect something similar to Coleman/Mostert a la 2019. I don't think there's a pot of gold at the end of this rainbow unless injuries dictate otherwise.
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Hasty also brings the ST role that Sermon & Mitchell don't afaik.

I personally don't consider Hasty to be much of a consideration as it relates to Sermon's usage. They have different roles in the offense.

Mitchell is the guy you wonder about. Maybe he's just better in Shanahan's opinion, it wouldn't be the first time a later round draft pick outproduced an early round guy.

 
Some Sermon notes watching tonight's game:

* The 49ers cannot run block against the Packers. Garapolo has had time to throw on occasion, but aside from one good Sermon run up the middle, the defense is in the 49er backfield on every run play.

* Sermon isn't getting used at all on 3rd down or red zone packages. Until SF trusts Sermon more, I'm not starting him on any team.

* The defense was supposed to be the strength for SF. If future teams can roll over this defense like this, Sermon will get fewer opportunities.

 
10 carries 31 yards and a 1 yard score, 3 targets 2 catches for 3 yards 

Am I way off base if I characterize this as a disappointment?

 
Chaka said:
10 carries 31 yards and a 1 yard score, 3 targets 2 catches for 3 yards 

Am I way off base if I characterize this as a disappointment?
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I don't think you are. I've never seen the guy before tonight and he looked unimpressive. That being said, he's young, so who knows how things will develp for him.

 
Like I said earlier Shanny was trying to prove a point by making him inactive in week one.   He wasn't going to give Sermon all the carries yet as it defeats the point of making him inactive in week 1.  Shanny is still trying to make his point.

And I have no idea where this goes

 
Sermon was usually out in passing situations and most of the red zone plays.  The fullback was in as the single back.  Shows a lack of trust in the rook.  
 

That having been said, there were some later series where he was in and did a solid job pass blocking.  He saved a sack by absolutely blowing up Rashaun Gary just before Gary grabbed Jimmy G.  
 

Sermon was a dud in the first half, but held his own in the second half.  Overall, the game was not defining for him other than the fact he didn’t get hurt, which you can’t say about the first three guys.

 
Sarlakticacid said:
Collinsworth mentioned something about him getting used to the one cut and go running style 
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Yeah I agree.  That is probably why he was inactive week 1. He looks like he is still thinking too much.  I wouldn't want to start him until I see him running more instinctively.  Hopefully that happens at some point.  

 
The Dude said:
Like I said earlier Shanny was trying to prove a point by making him inactive in week one.   He wasn't going to give Sermon all the carries yet as it defeats the point of making him inactive in week 1.  Shanny is still trying to make his point.

And I have no idea where this goes
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Would you mind unpacking this a little? The only point I see after tonight seems to be that Shanahan doesn't have complete confidence in Sermon.

 
jdoggydogg said:
And FINALLY Sermon gets good blocking on that short TD run. Encouraging.
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I'm sorry but he got good blocking on a 1 yard TD? That implies he got bad blocking on his other 9 carries. But it obfuscates the question of why he only got 10 carries after Mitchell got 19 & 17 in a semi blowout and a tight game.

Was it game plan? In game adjustment? Both of which lead to an additional "why?" after showing no such hesitation with Mitchell.

I drafted the guy as my RB3, I had confidence I'm probably holding him but there are a lot of red flags that we shouldn't ignore.

He had a prime opportunity and...meh. What happens next week when Mitchell is back? Another game we can't start Sermon with any degree of confidence.

 
Chaka said:
I'm sorry but he got good blocking on a 1 yard TD? That implies he got bad blocking on his other 9 carries. But it obfuscates the question of why he only got 10 carries after Mitchell got 19 & 17 in a semi blowout and a tight game.

Was it game plan? In game adjustment? Both of which lead to an additional "why?" after showing no such hesitation with Mitchell.

I drafted the guy as my RB3, I had confidence I'm probably holding him but there are a lot of red flags that we shouldn't ignore.

He had a prime opportunity and...meh. What happens next week when Mitchell is back? Another game we can't start Sermon with any degree of confidence.
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I agree. As a dynasty owner, I'm still a believer. But there's no way I'd start him in redraft unless we start to see more usage. 

 
As a niners fan, I'm afraid I was wrong about Sermon... he's giving me Isaiah Pead vibes. Both players I liked as prospects because I thought they had quick feet, but once in the NFL they looked like they were running in mud.

 
Hard to assess after one game, but he didn't seem that impressive despite getting a goal line TD. Who knows what Shanny is ever thinking, but didn't seem like he did much to take the job away from Mitchell when he comes back (or any of the other dozen guys).

 
He didn't look great, but neither did Taylor on his 10 carries.

What concerns me is the playcalling was different. It was like the Niners didn't even want to try and run the ball. Could have been the game plan going in or they simply don't trust Sermon. Last week Mitchell looked worse and they still fed him the ball.  

 
Payne said:
He didn't look great, but neither did Taylor on his 10 carries.

What concerns me is the playcalling was different. It was like the Niners didn't even want to try and run the ball. Could have been the game plan going in or they simply don't trust Sermon. Last week Mitchell looked worse and they still fed him the ball.  
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Looked worse than what? Sermon didn't touch the ball until 4:30 left in the game.

 
I thought Sermon looked good.  He was hit in the backfield on 7 or 8 of his 10 touches and made the first guy miss every time.  He had absolutely no room to run on 9 of his 10 carries and on the one he had room he gained a big chunk of yards. He made a nice adjustment to avoid another guy in the backfield on his TD to score easily.   When he was in on pass downs he did a good job pass protecting.  I was encouraged by what I saw.  I think he needed to earn some trust and that was obvious early as he wasn't given much of a chance.  As the game went on he got more opportunities and didn't have any issues as far as I could see.  

Overall the Packers owned the trenches on run plays for the majority of the game and SF play calling was different than most games.  I am not sure if I will start Sermon until he gets more consistent touches but I think he will get there.  

 
Payne said:
He didn't look great, but neither did Taylor on his 10 carries.

What concerns me is the playcalling was different. It was like the Niners didn't even want to try and run the ball. Could have been the game plan going in or they simply don't trust Sermon. Last week Mitchell looked worse and they still fed him the ball.  
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On pff, neither back has excelled. 56 for Sermon and 61 for Mitchell. It's hard to compare RBs across different games, but success in the passing game last night should've opened up some nice holes. 

 
Chaka said:
Looked worse than what? Sermon didn't touch the ball until 4:30 left in the game.
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Mitchell had 42 yards on 17 carries. My point was Sermon was not involved at all yesterday. That is a concern when you consider they fed Mitchell last week when he looked like poop. 

 
Juice didn't play in previous weeks so it was a 50/50 split at RB this week. As has been said, GB tore up the trenches and basically forced Jimmy to throw his dink and dunk stuff. I think SF is going to run into a lot of solid fronts that will slow the running game AND the short passing game if Jimmy fails to start throwing 10-15 yard intermediate passes to the outside to stretch the field.

 
Chaka said:
Would you mind unpacking this a little? The only point I see after tonight seems to be that Shanahan doesn't have complete confidence in Sermon.
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My only point is that it was likely that sermon had not corrected whatever made him inactive two weeks ago - and shanty wasn’t likely to turn over the keys.

so the disciplinary issue likely remains - whether it’s lack of effort, lack of knowing the playbook, or whatever.

 
Payne said:
Mitchell had 42 yards on 17 carries. My point was Sermon was not involved at all yesterday. That is a concern when you consider they fed Mitchell last week when he looked like poop. 
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That has been my concern as well and last night did little to alleviate that.

 
Trey Sermon rushed 10 times for 31 yards and a touchdown and caught 2-of-3 targets for three yards in Week 3 against the Packers.

Sermon was the 49ers’ lead back with Elijah Mitchell (shoulder) sidelined and JaMycal Hasty on IR. Kyle Juszczyk (69% snap share) had a larger role than expected, playing over Sermon on third downs and scoring a late touchdown. Sermon saved his night with his own goal-line TD in the fourth quarter. The 49ers haven’t shown much confidence in Sermon, who averaged 3.1 YPC and had just three more touches than Juszczyk, but Sermon showed enough to have a larger committee load if Mitchell returns in Week 4.
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Looked to me like Sermon's timing was slightly off on most of his shotgun handoffs/read option type plays when he got the ball.  Don't know if that's just a lack of chemistry due to not enough reps with Jimmy G or what.  But something looked off.  

Whether that was the case or not, very underwhelming considering the opportunity.  The TD kept him serviceable in FF and it was good that he seemed to be earning some trust from the coaching staff based on some usage in critical moments of the 4th quarter.

Buy yeah....underwhelming. 

 
Still too early to give up. Everyone always thinks 3 weeks into the season is enough to cast off a player for the rest of the season. However, it's the guy's first game and they weren't even certain he would start for this game until late in the week so I do think it is understandable that they schemed more Juice and Deebo in case he wasn't able to suit up.

Starting the guy with confidence next week forward? No. But there is a middle ground, especially for growing rookie players. Think you stash and wait for situation to clear up. It's not like you have that many high upside options at RB this year.

 
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