Sam Quentin
Footballguy
his pass pro was ok
the Ravens offense s a lot more productive with TWill where he helped to stake them to a two TD lead when the OLine was not getting it done.
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RB Ty'son Williams, BAL (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Go Blue
- Start date
the Ravens offense s a lot more productive with TWill where he helped to stake them to a two TD lead when the OLine was not getting it done.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I hardly saw them go RPO or play out of the pistol all night - maybe twice? And one of then LJax coughed it up, partly because Williams blew his assignment.
Maybe I’m missing something.
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
He read it right, it’s just that Nassib was able to shed his block attempt. Nassib has shed many blocks, and I am not convinced that Murray would be able to stop Nassib.I hardly saw them go RPO or play out of the pistol all night - maybe twice? And one of then LJax coughed it up, partly because Williams blew his assignment.
Maybe I’m missing something.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yet we didn’t see Williams again in the 2nd half of the game.
I immediately traded him on his 18 point 1st half.
ZADO
Footballguy
They showed Harbaughs reaction to Williams when he came to the sideline after the TD run , Harbaugh was very happy and smiling ear to ear and basically gave Williams the ''Ata boy'' pat on the shoulder
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
He was definitely happy with that 1 scoring play.
The rest of the game? Eh. I saw a lot of not happy looking expressions on Harbaugh’s face as well.
In 2019 with the awful Jets he was a solid RB2 finishing top 20, while scoring hardly any touchdowns.
Shiny new toys. A guy has one good carry and everyone thinks he is next big thing
Bell will be in play here. The guy is not washed up. Nor is Murray
EZD222
Footballguy
No one knows how this will turn out. The spectrum could range from Jonas Gray to Peyton Hillis. I will say we tend to discount non-offensive fundamentals a bit more than what coaches think. If this was Belichick Williams probably would have been cut already. The last play was THAT bad.
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
TVT 0 N S T A
Footballguy
Doom meet Gloom...
The last play wasn't that bad. If you're expecting your back to pick up a DE, basically unimpeded to the QB... you have bigger issues than said RB. Not sure you are cutting RBs if Williams is in your doghouse.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Williams didn't blow that last pickup. To me, Villeneuva missed his assignment and Williams did whatever he could to get in front of the guy.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
If the league didn't think Bell was washed up....why was he out there? Was there instances where Bell told an interested team "Nah...I'm good" when they came looking for him?
Murray is a bit different and I think he'll be the one who makes more of an impact.
ahartig
Footballguy
Ravens coach John Harbaugh said the team has "four backs in the mix" and will "play all those guys" moving forward.
Harbaugh danced around Ty'Son Williams' concerning second-half usage from Monday night and instead used the time to tout all four — Latavius Murray, Devonta Freeman, Le'Veon Bell, and Williams — of the team's backs. Bell and Freeman haven't made it to the active roster just yet, but Baltimore is expected to use one of its two vacant spots to call at least one of them up ahead of Sunday. Williams was clearly the better back when on the field, averaging 7.8 yards per touch, but will presumably be in a timeshare moving forward. Him and Murray should still be considered low-end RB2/3s in Week 2's inevitable shootout against the Chiefs.
Wait and see approach for me.
Harbaugh danced around Ty'Son Williams' concerning second-half usage from Monday night and instead used the time to tout all four — Latavius Murray, Devonta Freeman, Le'Veon Bell, and Williams — of the team's backs. Bell and Freeman haven't made it to the active roster just yet, but Baltimore is expected to use one of its two vacant spots to call at least one of them up ahead of Sunday. Williams was clearly the better back when on the field, averaging 7.8 yards per touch, but will presumably be in a timeshare moving forward. Him and Murray should still be considered low-end RB2/3s in Week 2's inevitable shootout against the Chiefs.
Wait and see approach for me.
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BigJim®
Footballguy
After the Nassib strip sack? We’ll yes, that is a true statement but Baltimore never had the ball offensively after that play.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
No clue how this will shake out, but the "four backs in the mix" and will "play all those guys" comments just reek of coach speak. I really have a hard time believing all four will play meaningful snaps. This will settle in to a 1A/1B situation I would think, but who will fill those roles is still an unknown. I have this sneaking suspicion that Le'Veon Bell is going to wind up rising to the top of this, especially if Williams can't make some progress on what were viewed as his weaknesses in week 1. I really can't see Freeman factoring in, he's looked done for a while. I know the myth is that Bell is done, but he really didn't grade out that terribly last year, despite being passed by Williams down the stretch.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
it’s so funny how you can tell who owns which RB based on some of the silly comments in here.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
If Harbs is going to play all-four RBs then the cream will rise.
We'll see soon enough, smile.
We'll see soon enough, smile.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He won’t - in fact my guess is Freeman never even makes the active roster unless a guy gets hurt. I’m not sure how anyone can say Bell isn’t washed - the guy couldn’t produce in the best offense in the league last year and no one wanted him all off-season.
It’s going to be Williams and Murray going forward - how the carries will be split isn’t quite fleshed out yet but anyone watching that game, objectively, knows who looked like the much better RB.
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I have Murray and Williams. I'm in a wait and see mode. This week I may start Higgins or Conner at flex instead of either BAL RB. Long term I "think" I have a start capable RB between the two but just don't know who right now.
I do think I have what will be their primary back between the two. I am in the camp (and had the opportunity to grab) that Bell and Freeman are both fill ins. Not impressed with either of them of late and think BAL will need one of Williams/Murray or both to be viable. IMHO.
Hartliner
Footballguy
Yea, I'm thinking to just wait and see. In general, if they are bench guys for you why not wait, if you are relying on them to start maybe trade them to get a more sure thing -- if you can.
My money is on Tyson and Murray though for 1a/1b. Leveon could be 1c at best in my eyes.
Cannon being cut really is interesting though, but prolly not super relevant. I expect Balt was just in scramble mode and basically needed a flex play for their fantasy RB spots.
My money is on Tyson and Murray though for 1a/1b. Leveon could be 1c at best in my eyes.
Cannon being cut really is interesting though, but prolly not super relevant. I expect Balt was just in scramble mode and basically needed a flex play for their fantasy RB spots.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
This was my take initially, but when I dug in.. his PFF grades weren't awful last year, and Waldman insists he played better than people realize. I won't pretend to have watched Bell much last year, and am humble enough to defer to analysts when it comes to truly trying to determine what he has left.
I certainly am not banking on, or investing heavily, in the success of Bell. However, with this seemingly wide open, I hesitate to rule him out. Full disclosure, Ty'Son is the only one I own currently on any of my teams, and he's certainly the one I'm hoping emerges. I just know that the mistakes on fundamentals can derail an exciting runner damn fast, especially if those mistakes hinder the QB from being successful. Pass pro and struggles with exchanges on RPO's feel like exactly the kind of mistakes that could result in a far less exciting, but more reliable option emerging here.
BigJim®
Footballguy
You replied to SQ talking about the Nassib sack with "Yet we didn’t see Williams again in the 2nd half of the game." That was the final offensive play of the game. He was in on the last offensive play. I agree with a lot of your posts HSG, but you are sort of being 'that guy' who trades away a player and then is exaggeratedly needling in the player thread. The performance was what it was... a mixed bag of good and bad.No; the several possessions where it was the Lataviois Murray show.
Williams was
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
PFF means nothing to me - it's completely wonky. I love Matt but not sure what he was watching. Bell looked toasted with the Jets (which was understandable) and looked washed with KC. Of course, I could end up being wrong but right now I think he's a distant 3rd behind Williams and Murray.
Boone22
Footballguy
Freeman just made the active roster.
rotoworld:
Ravens promoted RB Devonta Freeman from the practice squad.
Ravens had two vacant spots on their active roster and decidedly chose Freeman to be promoted over Le'Veon Bell. Coach John Harbaugh said he'll rotate all on game days moving forward, squeezing Ty'Son Williams' touches despite his immense talent over the others. Bell could still be added in the coming weeks, making this a four-headed hot-hand backfield rather than three. Freeman is an easy player to avoid in fantasy.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Boone22
Footballguy
Freeman called up before Bell. So either they like Freeman more or Bell was out of shape.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That speaks volumes about Bell, because Freeman looked worse last season. They have two open slots so maybe Bell gets activated soon as well though.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Has any team ever really done this? I guess it's possible since Williams is so raw and the other 3 have seen their better days, but this statement really seems to be overblown and pure "coachspeak" - most teams don't even activate 4 HBs on game day, and here, where I doubt Bell, Freeman or Murray play on special teams it seems even more unlikely that all 4 HBs will even be active on game days.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Baltimore routinely has 3 RBs active. I believe there is confusion over the 'rotating' comment; I took it as some days Freeman will be active, some days Bell. All depends on practice.
I promise, I'm not stumping for Bell. This Freeman news could just be that he was in a camp this year, so he was closer to game shape than Bell. Of the 3 vets they brought in, Freeman seems to me to be the one who most obviously has nothing left. If this is truly a matter of Freeman outperforming Bell in practice, then I will feel a whole lot better about this just coming down to Williams vs Murray.
shadrap
Footballguy
I agree. I've had Freeman on a few teams the last two years and he is totally washed up. He can catch the ball but no burst through the line on runs. I mean none. IMHO. That is what I have seen. Take it from there.
Terpman22
Footballguy
As a Ty'Son I guess "fanboy" I'm happy about the Freeman signing. Seems like the Ravens really don't have any choices but old washed vets or Ty'Son himself. Unless they make a trade, which I feel is highly unlikely, I feel he is the guy to own. B/c, naturally, I own him and none of the others... 
The Frankman
Footballguy
The thing is, it's never going to be just 2 RBs. Without fail, the Baltimore backfield has been 1A/1B with a little bit of 1C for like 80-85% of the games the last 3 years. The issue is, who will fit in what role? No matter what thread has existed on the issue, I've said Ty'son should have the 1A (Dobbins role) easy unless he blows it with poor pass blocking/fumbling snaps. Murray is the 1B (Edwards role) as the power complement/"finish the game off" guy. Freeman looks like he's the 1C (Justice Hill role) as the occasional 3rd down package guy; that role usually saw like 10-15 snaps a game.
EDIT: The thing is, I think the 1B and 1C roles are fluid. If Freeman or Bell show something in practice and Murray falters, it could be one of them in the 1B. Assuming Ravens are running the Pistol (which they really didn't Game 1), both the 1A and 1B roles in this O have immense value. The only guy who should be secure in his role is Williams due to his age/talent; he'd have to really mess up to lose the 1A role.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
One more mouth to feed = less touches for Ty’son.As a Ty'Son I guess "fanboy" I'm happy about the Freeman signing. Seems like the Ravens really don't have any choices but old washed vets or Ty'Son himself. Unless they make a trade, which I feel is highly unlikely, I feel he is the guy to own. B/c, naturally, I own him and none of the others...
I have no doubt Harbaugh will get all 3 involved. If Williams continues to fail at pass pro, it’ll be the Murray/Freeman show.
All a crap shoot at this point, but the thing about the olds is they can protect LJax. Freeman isn’t as washed as Bell, and Murray looked pretty much the same as he’s always looked to me.
Seems like Freeman’s activation means Bell might be gone soon. Unless they’re just trying to get him into shape. And why would they waste their time on that?
That's fair. I'm talking just about fantasy relevance. The 1A role has typically been a RB2 for fantasy, the 1B more in the RB3/Flex mold, and the 1C not useful outside of potentially a handcuff type hold.
Whoever carves out those 1A/1B roles will likely be worth rostering. I suspect and hope the way you've placed them is how it ends up, except I really think Bell passes Freeman. Freeman grades out terribly over the last few years, and when I have watched him, he looks bad.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
the first part is accurate.
I believe those %’s will change dramatically based on this new look backfield. I wouldn’t be shocked to see it 40-30-30 Murray/Williams/Freeman.
But as i suggested above, if one back emerges as more capable of running the pistol/RPO concepts, that’s the back who’ll get the lion’s share.
But pass pro also matters. It’ll be interesting to see how it all shakes out. I can’t recall a similar situation happening before where the top 3 backs on a team went down a week before the season.
As I said upthread, that may be, but his PFF grades have been much better than Freeman's over the last couple years. Additionally, Waldman, along with a few other analysts, have said Bell wasn't as bad last year as the narrative seems to be. I'm deferring to them, I didn't watch Bell at all last year.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I guess I don't understand this take. Statistically, PFF grades, and most analysts I've read would disagree with this. Both have been pretty poor the last 2 years, but Freeman has been worse, statistically. We are debating a couple guys who very likely will not matter much if at all, but if I'm betting on one of those two, I'm going to break towards Bell just based on the above listed criteria.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
You are (correctly) making PT assumptions logically, based on talent, age, diminishing skills.
IMO, Harbaugh will play the guys he feels give him the most playbook flexibility & protect the QB.
I’m slkeptical he’s going to feature Williams & keep that vanilla playbook, wasting a year of LJax RPO talents that made this offense dominant.
That leaves Murray. And Freeman. It’ll be interesting to see what Freeman has left in the tank. He’s still in good shape. Can’t say that about Bell, apparently.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I wouldn’t bet on either of them with your $.
lol
But I would wager that Harbaugh is going to run out the RBs that allow him to run his offense while protecting his QB.
Unfortunately for Ty’son Williams shareholders, that doesn’t appear to be him.
Time will tell. I’m planting no flags here - just best-guessing along with the rest of y’all. I’m just trying to take a mile-high approach to it rather than putting each player under the microscope. Harbaugh flat out said they would all play.
I would also wager that Harbaugh cares less about PFF grades and more about keeping LJax off the IR, while allowing him to run the offense he wants. If that means running out a slower, less dynamic RB to open up that RPO, I’d bet he would do that.
Gonna be interesting to see how they approach it.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The Ravens were killing the Raiders while they were using the "vanilla" playbook. I also think there's some bias going on in your views since you traded Williams away, but that's natural. Freeman looked horrible last year, and I've stated my opinion on Bell.
Barring injury to Williams or Murray, I'd be willing to leave this board forever if Freeman or Bell get close to 30% of RB touches. It's far more likely the Ravens find another RB somewhere else (trade?) then that happening.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
You have that backwards.
I traded Williams away because of these opinions. I didn’t form them because I traded him away.
I saw what everyone else did on MNF & couldn’t float offers fast enough. He appeared to blow protection multiple times, the offense was dumbed down, and he seemed to get benched for Murray for the rest of the game (Murray had 6 or 7 straight touches + the TD).
my only “bias” was seeing an inexperienced player’s weaknesses amplified on the big stage & making a play for my handcuff before the bottom fell out.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
this part I agree with. I’m only basing my take on the players they have now, but I wouldn’t be at all shocked if they try Freeman & Bell, are disappointed & seek help elsewhere.
IMO Murray did enough to stay, and for now he’s probably the favorite for FF value/touches.
