RB Zach Charbonnet, SEA (3 Viewers)

[efactor]

What are we, goldfish? These are running backs. Running backs tend to get hurt. There’s going to be opportunities for both this season. Bigger problem is whether the Seahawks is going to be a viable offense. Most teams looked like hot garbage though so it’s not much different than most are dealing with this year.

I keep saying this but the idea of filling your starting roster spots at RB is a for the most part a weekly proposition. No matter how barren the WW looks right now, squint hard, because guys will emerge and have their weeks. There are a few guys that are both really good and will also survive both injury and competition all year. Good luck figuring out who they are. Charbonnet will get his chances at some point almost certainly. And Walker will definitely have his.

I think the question was who would produce and what the split would look like if both were healthy.
Early returns look like it will heavily lean to the better RB - K9. And that the only way Charbers get what they want is through injury. Which really was the most likely all along, but clearly not to many here.

I’m not a Charber. Nor a Walker-er. I’m just a guy looking at two RBs and considering how their roles will develop. And to me, that’s the key word…develop. There’s a lot of different ways things can go and I don’t think Pete knows himself yet. I do know you don’t spend a 2nd on a guy that you’re never going to try giving a role to. So what’s the role? No idea. Things need to run their course. I would suspect that getting blasted at home to a team everyone thought was in the mix for a top 5 pick is not a great piece of evidence for doing the same things you did in that game moving forward. Add everything I said about RBs in general to the pile and I arrive at a wait and see conclusion, but think both guys are going to get used. How much and when? No one can possibly know yet.

And if that sounds like a cop out, great, because that’s how I look at the vast majority of backfields. Like the Eagles, for example.

I believe Walker is more talented and that Pete in Seahwaks tenure has never been a real rbbc guy. In fact he has only given 10 or more carries to 2 rbs like 3 times (eta in the same game) or something silly.
And those 2 things are why I didn't get why the Charbers were thinking 60/40 or close to 50/50 split. Just never made sense.
Injury could strike and make him a solid pick just like any back up runner. I just think the people who thought pete would play a lesser RB because of what the GM did were way off base. And continue to believe that. 1 game in looks right.
If I'm wrong the sun will still come up tomorrow but I won't tiptoe around what I think is obvious in fear of a hot take being wrong like most of this board. Zfg

I agree, which raises the obvious question. Why the hell did the Seahawks take him in round 2 when they have so many holes on defense?

Since I hate them, I'm glad they grabbed both Charbonnet and JSN. While I like JSN, they had far greater needs

Lot of GMs are married to their board no matter what position/depth. Both picks from Seattle were far from need but as we've seen injuries happen. So better to have good players ready to contribute if needed than bad players who are lousy no matter what.

I personally think Charbs will show his worth - but its gonna take time and circumstance

I would agree more if they had an older starting RB but they just drafted Walker last year, so if he's truly Petes guy, it will be a while.

 

[Sunday Gravy]

What are we, goldfish? These are running backs. Running backs tend to get hurt. There’s going to be opportunities for both this season. Bigger problem is whether the Seahawks is going to be a viable offense. Most teams looked like hot garbage though so it’s not much different than most are dealing with this year.

I keep saying this but the idea of filling your starting roster spots at RB is a for the most part a weekly proposition. No matter how barren the WW looks right now, squint hard, because guys will emerge and have their weeks. There are a few guys that are both really good and will also survive both injury and competition all year. Good luck figuring out who they are. Charbonnet will get his chances at some point almost certainly. And Walker will definitely have his.

I think the question was who would produce and what the split would look like if both were healthy.
Early returns look like it will heavily lean to the better RB - K9. And that the only way Charbers get what they want is through injury. Which really was the most likely all along, but clearly not to many here.

I’m not a Charber. Nor a Walker-er. I’m just a guy looking at two RBs and considering how their roles will develop. And to me, that’s the key word…develop. There’s a lot of different ways things can go and I don’t think Pete knows himself yet. I do know you don’t spend a 2nd on a guy that you’re never going to try giving a role to. So what’s the role? No idea. Things need to run their course. I would suspect that getting blasted at home to a team everyone thought was in the mix for a top 5 pick is not a great piece of evidence for doing the same things you did in that game moving forward. Add everything I said about RBs in general to the pile and I arrive at a wait and see conclusion, but think both guys are going to get used. How much and when? No one can possibly know yet.

And if that sounds like a cop out, great, because that’s how I look at the vast majority of backfields. Like the Eagles, for example.

I believe Walker is more talented and that Pete in Seahwaks tenure has never been a real rbbc guy. In fact he has only given 10 or more carries to 2 rbs like 3 times (eta in the same game) or something silly.
And those 2 things are why I didn't get why the Charbers were thinking 60/40 or close to 50/50 split. Just never made sense.
Injury could strike and make him a solid pick just like any back up runner. I just think the people who thought pete would play a lesser RB because of what the GM did were way off base. And continue to believe that. 1 game in looks right.
If I'm wrong the sun will still come up tomorrow but I won't tiptoe around what I think is obvious in fear of a hot take being wrong like most of this board. Zfg

I agree, which raises the obvious question. Why the hell did the Seahawks take him in round 2 when they have so many holes on defense?

Since I hate them, I'm glad they grabbed both Charbonnet and JSN. While I like JSN, they had far greater needs

Lot of GMs are married to their board no matter what position/depth. Both picks from Seattle were far from need but as we've seen injuries happen. So better to have good players ready to contribute if needed than bad players who are lousy no matter what.

I personally think Charbs will show his worth - but its gonna take time and circumstance

I would agree more if they had an older starting RB but they just drafted Walker last year, so if he's truly Petes guy, it will be a while.

Charb was a dumb pick for this team. Especially after going offense in the first.

 

[Faust]

Zach Charbonnet played on 32-of-75 offensive snaps in the Seahawks’ Week 3 win over the Panthers.

In addition to snaps, Charbonnet also saw a season-high 11 opportunities in the win. He was effective with them, totaling 45 yards on those touches, but he still worked well behind Kenneth Walker. Interestingly, Charbonnet also ran 16 routes to Walker’s 10, which could be something to monitor in the coming weeks. The Seahawks appear to be easing Charbonnet into action, which could be due to an injury that slowed him in training camp. However, his snaps and opportunities have steadily increased each week, making him a worthwhile stash for any managers in leagues where he may be available.

 

[Banger]

he looked really good and if he's free and you have a spot at the end of your bench he's a high upside injury replacement if Walker gets dinged.

 

[TommyKramer9]

I might try to get this guy on waivers this week. Looks like a good stash with a potentially big payout

 

[Biabreakable]

Let's see do I want the guy made out of glass or the exciting rookie. Hmmm tough one fellas.

If game one is any indication

It's not like Walker did anything either - Seattle had an awful offensive day. I don't know we can read much into one week - but with that said in redraft sometimes you have to cut bait quickly so you don't miss the hot waiver adds so I can't blame you.

Rest assured that the moment I drop Charbonnet, Petey Sunshine will have a complete about face with his RB personnel usage strategy and feature him, or Walker will get hurt in practice the next day. You’re welcome, Charbonnet owners.

Serious post: I’ll bet Charbonnet lives up to his redraft ADP, but not until the second half of the season. Pete clearly doesn’t use his high draft capital rookie RBs like Gibbs or Bijan are being used this year.

Full disclosure, I own ZC in all of my leagues. I'm not about to turn into a Charbonnet apologist though. I see much more game scripts like this I'll drop him. I play in redraft or keeper, not dynasty although in dynasty ZC could easily become a roster clogger for 3 years.

Pete plays who performs. Position, draft capital, trade capital, it's all irrelevant in his eyes. If you give his team the best chance of winning, you're playing. Pete has proven this over and over again. It's part of what makes him such a great coach that's loved by his team. If Charbonnet can't stay on the field in front of DeeJay Dallas, it's a problem.

It's also not really a fair comparison of Seattle's running back draft picks (2nd round RBs over the last 10 years with Penny taken late first) to guys taken in the top 15, especially in 2023 with how the NFL has evolved. Consider this, Bijan may have gone even higher in a draft 5-10 years ago, likely a top 5 guy. He is ELITE by every metric available and showed out in game 1. Almost the same can be said about Gibbs although his size may have kept him out of the top 10 regardless of era.

Charbonnet was the 3rd RB taken, late 2nd round, in a draft devoid of any elite talent outside of the top 2. That's not to say no other RB in this class will help their teams, they will, some may even be relevant for a time. Long story short, I'm very disappointed in watching Charbonnet play against 1st string defense. I hope I'm wrong, and overreacting, but I just haven't seen "it" whatever "it" may be.

I realize this is a post from a couple weeks ago but I found some of your comments interesting here.

First of all why do you think its unfair to compare RB selected in the 2nd or later rounds to RB drafted in the top 15?

While draft capital certainly matters and RB selected in the top half of the 1st round do have a higher hit rate of success for FF than later picks do, there are still a lot of later round picks who become great FF performers, logically by default, there are only a few RB selected in the top 15, some seasons none at all.

Then you talk about how the NFL has evolved, well high draft capital used on a RB is on a steady downward trend, has been for many years now when you compare that to decades ago. So more and more successful RB are coming from later round picks than there were prior to the year 2000.

Maybe I misunderstand what you mean by these comments, but it seems to me you should not be discounting non 1st round RB being quality prospects.

Now that being said the RB being selected in the top 15 are becoming more rare than they used to be, so sure that is a big deal, but there have been busts drafted that high as well.

Another way to look at this instead of the draft round the RB is taken is just by the order they are selected, and as you mention Charbonet was the 3rd RB selected.

While its uncommon to do so one of our posters here did a VBD analysis of RB by the order they were selected, not by draft round, and while this type of statistical analysis has more spikes and noise in it than some other types do, if I recall correctly the 3rd RB selected had a pretty good track record of producing VBD.

If you or other people are interested in seeing that, I think I have it archived somewhere. Im on my phone right now, but I could try to dig that up later.

Now the other comment you made that I find interesting is when you talk about "it" factor. Which I interpret to be when you watch a player being impressed by their performance or not.

I just happened to randomly watch a bit on youtube about Tom Brady that came on after I was watching clips of Achane. I wasnt seeking this out, it just came up and I watched it for a bit. In that there was a blurb from Brian Billick who was talking about "it" factor, and he says when a scout says this, what they mean is they dont know what they are looking for, but they know it when they see it. Which I thought was pretty funny and accurate too.

Now this is in the context of Tom Brady the 199th pick of that draft. Clearly scouts did not see "it" when they watched Tom Brady, but he absolutely had IT.

Now back to Charbonet. When you watched Chris Carson did you see "it" when watching him? I certainly didnt. Some people did though. They liked how he ran hard and broke tackles.

Pete Carrol liked Carson and used him until he couldnt anymore. Maybe he sees something similar in the way Charbonet plays here and thats why they drafted him, even though they already had Walker.

Walker definitely has talent and seeing his speed is something that will obviously stand out to any observer of his play. But there are other things than this that RBs can do that coaches want on their teams, even if you dont see it from Charbonet the way you see it from Walker.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

You misunderstood or I didn't explain myself well enough. The poster before me said Pete doesn't use high draft capital on running backs. 2nd round draft picks ARE high draft capital for a running back these days. In this day and age, 2nd rounders are pretty much equivalent to mid/late 1st rounders 5-10 years ago. Guys like Bijan had the ability to go #1 overall back then, I'm not sure that will ever happen again until the NFL shifts gears again after a team comes out and starts winning championships with a pick like Bijan.

Seattle used 2nd round draft picks l to acquire KW and then ZC and my point back then was that it was disappointing DeeJay Dallas was on the field before ZC. It's especially disappointing in a system like Pete's where he plays who performs. He doesn't care what he paid for them. If ZC shows out in practice, the opportunities will come on Sundays.

I own Walker and Charbonnet, still, but when I watch Walker run I come away being very impressed. When I see Charbonnet run, I see a mediocre RB with good size, good power and decent vision but lacking elite burst. We're only 3 weeks in, but so far what I saw on Saturdays isn't really translating to Sundays. Without elite big play ability or 100% GL work, I just don't see Charbonnet having much value here while KW is around.

That said, this story isn't finished, which is why I continue to hold.

 

[dipandglide]

he looked really good and if he's free and you have a spot at the end of your bench he's a high upside injury replacement if Walker gets dinged.

This is the play. It's wild how in 2023 people are still stashing backup QBs, WRs, and TEs on their benches (redraft). You want to stash guys like Charbs, Ford, Kelley (ugh), Spears, and the like.

 

[Faust]

Jared Smola
Ken Walker's snap rates ...

Week 1: 65%
Week 2: 61%
Week 3: 49%

Zach Charbonnet's snap rates ...

Week 1: 24%
Week 2: 28%
Week 3: 44%

https://twitter.com/smolads/status/1706323972575383801?s=21

A lot of people arguing that Walker has been much better than Charbonnet so far.

@NextGenStats Rush Yards Over Expected Per Attempt

Chabonnet: 0.87
Walker: 0.43

https://twitter.com/smolads/status/1706355377267216521?s=21

 

[Sunday Gravy]

Jared Smola
Ken Walker's snap rates ...

Week 1: 65%
Week 2: 61%
Week 3: 49%

Zach Charbonnet's snap rates ...

Week 1: 24%
Week 2: 28%
Week 3: 44%

https://twitter.com/smolads/status/1706323972575383801?s=21

A lot of people arguing that Walker has been much better than Charbonnet so far.

@NextGenStats Rush Yards Over Expected Per Attempt

Chabonnet: 0.87
Walker: 0.43

https://twitter.com/smolads/status/1706355377267216521?s=21

Walker has been excellent. Guy fights hard for every yard plus has the potential to take it to the house every play. He's in no danger of having to surrender playing time.

 

[Banger]

he looked really good and if he's free and you have a spot at the end of your bench he's a high upside injury replacement if Walker gets dinged.

This is the play. It's wild how in 2023 people are still stashing backup QBs, WRs, and TEs on their benches (redraft). You want to stash guys like Charbs, Ford, Kelley (ugh), Spears, and the like.

ha, have been rotating 2 of the 4 (Char/Spears) over the past few weeks

 

[TripItUp]

Walker has been excellent. Guy fights hard for every yard plus has the potential to take it to the house every play. He's in no danger of having to surrender playing time.

Has always been excellent, coming off one of the 20 best rookie rushing seasons in the history of the NFL.

Charbonnet truthers had an "alternative viewpoint" which has been soundly dismissed in three short weeks.

 

[Payne]

Couldn't wait for some positive news could you?

Walker is superior. Yes Charbs got work. One reason was to give Walker a breather after getting a few chunk plays.

Also, Walker was better at short yardage and even subbed in for Charbs at the GL.

47 carries to 16
10 targets to 4
Don't look too much into this. It's obvious Walker is the guy.

That being said, stash Charbs if you can as nobody is saying he can't be a RB2 or more with a Walker injury..

 

[Biabreakable]

Here is the chart workdog called forecasted RB value by draft position if anyone is interested.

I forget the timeframe of the sample size of this data. I would need to find the thread where this discussion took place many years ago to piece that all back together again, but I believe a pretty robust sample was used for this.

3 columns. The first showing the percentage chance for a RB to have any positive VBD in their career. The 2nd showing the percentage chance of having 200 VBD in their career and the 3rd for the chance of having 400 VBD in their career.

For some context of what that means Chris Carson had 122 career VBD so he would be in the first column. Dalvin Cook has 340 career VBD and unless he gains more will be in the 2nd column. Shaun Alexander had 734 career VBD. He even had one season over 200 VBD.

Some positive VBD is ok That means the player did something worth starting at least for a partial season to 2 seasons. 200 VBD is good that means they had more than two seasons worth starting. And 400 VBD is excellent as they had many seasons worth starting.

By this metric Kenneth Walker had 33 VBD last season. He was the 2nd RB selected in the 2022 draft and according to this chart he had a 90% chances of providing positive VBD which he has already. He has a 47% chance of producing 200 VBD in his career and a 37% chance to produce 400 VBD in his career.

Zach Charbonet as the 3rd RB selected in 2023 has a 73% chance to provide positive VBD in his career. 23% chance of producing 200 VBD in his career. 10% chance of producing 400 VBD in his career.

 

[Da Franchise]

Or you could just keep an open mind and evaluate this backfield on a weekly basis.

Just to clarify, we’ve gone from:

Preseason- You *can’t possibly know* if Charbonnet offers any type of skill because he’s a rookie. Checkmate.

Week 1- Two carries lmao. This couldn’t possibly evolve moving forward. Case closed, noobs.

Week 3- It’s so obvious Walker is better. But hey yeah probably go ahead and add ZC just in case there’s an injury. (Insert season long touch and target totals here to distract from unfavorable trending data, including near even snap rates this week)

@NY GIANTS
Bye
@Cincy
Arizona

Will be interesting to actually watch how this plays out. Three soft run defenses with a bye sprinkled in.

 

[Biabreakable]

A couple of you have liked the chart that I shared of what workdog did here.

I have the charts that he did with the same analysis for the WR and TE positions as well if anyone wants to see that.

I forget the exact way that he did this as it was quite a few years ago, but there was some predictive math that he did here with a linear regression model based on the history of these players performance in the sample size. So it wasnt just what the players did over the time frame of the sample he collected. Thats why you see some other things like a smoothed average and so on.

While I think doing this by the order the players were drafted makes it a bit more random and spiky than studies done by using the round the players were drafted are, which show a smoother progression, that is what I like about it as well.

Its different than most other studies done like this and unique. Doing it this way eliminates some of the issue of years when there was no 1st round RB selected for example. Although I do think its a bit more random and strange that it does not create a smooth curve. Some of the players with later draft order have better odds of success than the ones before them.

Eta - Im not sure if he did this for the QB position or not. If he did I dont think I saved that.

 

[LawFitz]

He's in no danger of having to surrender playing time.

Uh, that's exactly what he has been doing so far this season. This coming from a multi-share K9 owner with zero Charb shares.

 

[The Finist]

A nice handcuff back. Unstartable wo Walker injury. No spin zone.

 

[Banger]

A nice handcuff back. Unstartable wo Walker injury. No spin zone.

If Walker goes down there looks like there would little drop off. I don’t think Walkers job is in danger but I could see them working to a split or running the hot hand. He looks good

 

[The Finist]

A nice handcuff back. Unstartable wo Walker injury. No spin zone.

If Walker goes down there looks like there would little drop off. I don’t think Walkers job is in danger but I could see them working to a split or running the hot hand. He looks good

A split is unlikely for a Pete Carrol team when one RB is clearly better than the other.

 

[Banger]

A nice handcuff back. Unstartable wo Walker injury. No spin zone.

If Walker goes down there looks like there would little drop off. I don’t think Walkers job is in danger but I could see them working to a split or running the hot hand. He looks good

A split is unlikely for a Pete Carrol team when one RB is clearly better than the other.

You can say that Walker is definitely better but that doesn’t make it true. Walker is certainly the starter and got more carries to start the season but you don’t know how it’s going to end up. Charbonet looks very good and if I’m a coach I’m giving him additional touches after last game.

As you’d expect his snap counts have gone up from 12 (Walker had 32) game 1 to 32 (Walker had 38) game 3 and carries from 3 to 9. If he’s running strong, tanking guys, running with a better ypc, why wouldn’t a coach continue to give more?

I own each guy in different leagues and I’m just giving my read on the situation.

 

[Biabreakable]

Here is workdogs VBD chart for the WR position.

Here is the chart for the TE position.

I looked through all my favorites where I had these saved and I didnt see one for QBs there. And holy crap I have a lot of videos saved.

 

[TampaMike19]

Dude's legit and everything Carroll wants, hence his hedge vs. Walker. Walker's playing well but I don't think his leash is as long as perception indicates.

 

[Payne]

Some of you are still holding on I see. If Walker remains healthy, he is the guy. Period.

I really don't understand how some can say Charbs has looked "really good" while questioning how good Walker has been.

Walker:
47 carries for 204 yards and 4 TD's. 4.3 average. 8 catches for 73 yards. 9.1 average

Charbs:
16 carries for 73 yards and zero TD's. 4.6 average. 3 catches for 13 yards. 4.3 average.

 

[Weebs210]

Some of you are still holding on I see. If Walker remains healthy, he is the guy. Period.

I really don't understand how some can say Charbs has looked "really good" while questioning how good Walker has been.

Walker:
47 carries for 204 yards and 4 TD's. 4.3 average. 8 catches for 73 yards. 9.1 average

Charbs:
16 carries for 73 yards and zero TD's. 4.6 average. 3 catches for 13 yards. 4.3 average.

I mean based on your own stats Charb is the better pure rusher which is supposed to be walkers strong point.

 

[EBF]

I do have a dog in this fight because I took Walker in redraft and ignored Charbs, but I think we need to remember a few things.

Seattle likes to spend draft picks on RBs. When they had Lynch, they also drafted Turbin (4th round), Michael (2nd round), and Ware (7th round). They took CJ Prosise in the 3rd round. They spent a 1st on Rashaad Penny. When they already had Penny on the roster, they spent a 2nd on Walker. When they lost Penny after last season, they spent another 2nd on Charbs. This is a team that absolutely 100% wants to run the ball and makes it a priority to stock the cupboard. Given that they've had several starters get hurt at the position over the years (Rawls, Carson, Penny) it makes perfect sense for them to be paranoid about having only one option. Lynch was an anomaly in terms of both his talent and his durability. With that being said...

Pete Carroll seems to like picking one guy and sticking with him until he falters. I'd argue that Walker was more talented than Penny from the jump, but Penny was the clear guy last year until he got hurt. Penny himself was not heavily utilized until after Carson's injuries. Michael never pushed Lynch at all. Although Carroll actually utilized RBBC at USC with Reggie Bush and LenDale White, there's not much evidence that he likes a committee approach in the NFL. He seems very traditional in how he approaches the position, deferring to the incumbent and only making a switch when the starter gets hurt.

With that being the case, I would not expect a switch here until if/when Walker gets hurt or fails massively. With the carry split currently standing at 47-16 right now, this does not look like a competition. There's a clear starter and clear #2. I don't think it's impossible for that to change, but people who expected Michael/Penny/Walker to thrive as rookies were left disappointed by Seattle and Carroll in the past. This regime has never looked eager to force its high-drafted RB prospect onto the field right away.

 

[Banger]

Some of you are still holding on I see. If Walker remains healthy, he is the guy. Period.

I really don't understand how some can say Charbs has looked "really good" while questioning how good Walker has been.

Walker:
47 carries for 204 yards and 4 TD's. 4.3 average. 8 catches for 73 yards. 9.1 average

Charbs:
16 carries for 73 yards and zero TD's. 4.6 average. 3 catches for 13 yards. 4.3 average.

You’re comparing the incoming starter against a guy who has played 3 career games and looked really good and strong. I think it’s a little early to plant flags on this situation. Charbs touches and involvement started at 1/3 of Walkers and climbed progressively each week.

I think many people forget that rookies don’t always splash week 1-5 just because we drafted them. Rewind a couple seasons and look at Amon Ra…through his first 12 games he went for 39-352-0 and his last 6 games he went for 51-560-5 and we all know how that story ended.

Rookies can splash at different times…sometimes it’s the coaching staff intentionally bringing them along slowly as they acclimate to the NFL and sometimes it might be overwhelming for the player and things need to slow down which may take time and sometimes guys hit the ground running.

The moral of the story is don’t make up your mind prematurely and watch what’s actually happening and react. If you have a deep bench or are holding a crappy 2nd TE or Bourne/Burks/Woods type wr as your number 5 wr, I’d look to drop them and pick up this kid (or Spears) if they’re on your wires.

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

My options are fairly dire this week, so I've stuck him in my lineup as the placeholder in the likely case Barkley isn't ready to go.

Rather than roll the dice on an equally bad Sunday option, I'm putting Charbs in on the hope I can play Barkley.

Not the worst option if you want to wait on Saquon I don't think. Potential for some good quality touches and maybe a TD.

 

[Biabreakable]

My options are fairly dire this week, so I've stuck him in my lineup as the placeholder in the likely case Barkley isn't ready to go.

Rather than roll the dice on an equally bad Sunday option, I'm putting Charbs in on the hope I can play Barkley.

Not the worst option if you want to wait on Saquon I don't think. Potential for some good quality touches and maybe a TD.

Good luck.

I sure wouldnt want to start him yet. Need more information first. I tend to agree with EBFs point above about Pete sticking with a guy.

But desperate times and not other good options as you say. Maybe thats the right move for you.

 

[FarFromHome]

Charbs looks good. Tough runner. He gets whats there. The difference is Walker is a playmaker and makes something out of nothing. They are a nice real football tandem. In fantasy they are a rb1 and a handcuff

 

[The Finist]

Seems to be a ton of wishful thinking in here while ignoring how Pete has run the Seahawks since he has been HC.

Unless injury,Charbs is not a viable week to week start. He will score a TD at some point and you may get lucky. But he will not see above 9 carries per game except as an occasional outlier. And he is not the GL back or pass catching back either.

Handcuff back. And maybe a good one. We will see when the time comes. Big difference between what he is doing v carrying the load like Walker is.

 

[Payne]

Some of you are still holding on I see. If Walker remains healthy, he is the guy. Period.

I really don't understand how some can say Charbs has looked "really good" while questioning how good Walker has been.

Walker:
47 carries for 204 yards and 4 TD's. 4.3 average. 8 catches for 73 yards. 9.1 average

Charbs:
16 carries for 73 yards and zero TD's. 4.6 average. 3 catches for 13 yards. 4.3 average.

You’re comparing the incoming starter against a guy who has played 3 career games and looked really good and strong. I think it’s a little early to plant flags on this situation. Charbs touches and involvement started at 1/3 of Walkers and climbed progressively each week.

I think many people forget that rookies don’t always splash week 1-5 just because we drafted them. Rewind a couple seasons and look at Amon Ra…through his first 12 games he went for 39-352-0 and his last 6 games he went for 51-560-5 and we all know how that story ended.

Rookies can splash at different times…sometimes it’s the coaching staff intentionally bringing them along slowly as they acclimate to the NFL and sometimes it might be overwhelming for the player and things need to slow down which may take time and sometimes guys hit the ground running.

The moral of the story is don’t make up your mind prematurely and watch what’s actually happening and react. If you have a deep bench or are holding a crappy 2nd TE or Bourne/Burks/Woods type wr as your number 5 wr, I’d look to drop them and pick up this kid (or Spears) if they’re on your wires.

I give up.

People have come here for months and posted how Charbs is the better back without him having played a single down.
We are now three games in. I'm sorry if some of you can't see it or just refuse to accept it.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

 

[Weebs210]

Some of you are still holding on I see. If Walker remains healthy, he is the guy. Period.

I really don't understand how some can say Charbs has looked "really good" while questioning how good Walker has been.

Walker:
47 carries for 204 yards and 4 TD's. 4.3 average. 8 catches for 73 yards. 9.1 average

Charbs:
16 carries for 73 yards and zero TD's. 4.6 average. 3 catches for 13 yards. 4.3 average.

You’re comparing the incoming starter against a guy who has played 3 career games and looked really good and strong. I think it’s a little early to plant flags on this situation. Charbs touches and involvement started at 1/3 of Walkers and climbed progressively each week.

I think many people forget that rookies don’t always splash week 1-5 just because we drafted them. Rewind a couple seasons and look at Amon Ra…through his first 12 games he went for 39-352-0 and his last 6 games he went for 51-560-5 and we all know how that story ended.

Rookies can splash at different times…sometimes it’s the coaching staff intentionally bringing them along slowly as they acclimate to the NFL and sometimes it might be overwhelming for the player and things need to slow down which may take time and sometimes guys hit the ground running.

The moral of the story is don’t make up your mind prematurely and watch what’s actually happening and react. If you have a deep bench or are holding a crappy 2nd TE or Bourne/Burks/Woods type wr as your number 5 wr, I’d look to drop them and pick up this kid (or Spears) if they’re on your wires.

I give up.

People have come here for months and posted how Charbs is the better back without him having played a single down.
We are now three games in. I'm sorry if some of you can't see it or just refuse to accept it.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

Your stats you posted has charbs as the better runner through three games. You make no sense lol.

 

[Payne]

Some of you are still holding on I see. If Walker remains healthy, he is the guy. Period.

I really don't understand how some can say Charbs has looked "really good" while questioning how good Walker has been.

Walker:
47 carries for 204 yards and 4 TD's. 4.3 average. 8 catches for 73 yards. 9.1 average

Charbs:
16 carries for 73 yards and zero TD's. 4.6 average. 3 catches for 13 yards. 4.3 average.

I mean based on your own stats Charb is the better pure rusher which is supposed to be walkers strong point.

Are we really going to play semantics here? Whatever makes you feel better.

If that is the case, these numbers make Walker an elite receiving back then too.

 

[Payne]

Some of you are still holding on I see. If Walker remains healthy, he is the guy. Period.

I really don't understand how some can say Charbs has looked "really good" while questioning how good Walker has been.

Walker:
47 carries for 204 yards and 4 TD's. 4.3 average. 8 catches for 73 yards. 9.1 average

Charbs:
16 carries for 73 yards and zero TD's. 4.6 average. 3 catches for 13 yards. 4.3 average.

You’re comparing the incoming starter against a guy who has played 3 career games and looked really good and strong. I think it’s a little early to plant flags on this situation. Charbs touches and involvement started at 1/3 of Walkers and climbed progressively each week.

I think many people forget that rookies don’t always splash week 1-5 just because we drafted them. Rewind a couple seasons and look at Amon Ra…through his first 12 games he went for 39-352-0 and his last 6 games he went for 51-560-5 and we all know how that story ended.

Rookies can splash at different times…sometimes it’s the coaching staff intentionally bringing them along slowly as they acclimate to the NFL and sometimes it might be overwhelming for the player and things need to slow down which may take time and sometimes guys hit the ground running.

The moral of the story is don’t make up your mind prematurely and watch what’s actually happening and react. If you have a deep bench or are holding a crappy 2nd TE or Bourne/Burks/Woods type wr as your number 5 wr, I’d look to drop them and pick up this kid (or Spears) if they’re on your wires.

I give up.

People have come here for months and posted how Charbs is the better back without him having played a single down.
We are now three games in. I'm sorry if some of you can't see it or just refuse to accept it.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

Your stats you posted has charbs as the better runner through three games. You make no sense lol.

You're right. Charbs is the better runner.

 

[Banger]

Some of you are still holding on I see. If Walker remains healthy, he is the guy. Period.

I really don't understand how some can say Charbs has looked "really good" while questioning how good Walker has been.

Walker:
47 carries for 204 yards and 4 TD's. 4.3 average. 8 catches for 73 yards. 9.1 average

Charbs:
16 carries for 73 yards and zero TD's. 4.6 average. 3 catches for 13 yards. 4.3 average.

You’re comparing the incoming starter against a guy who has played 3 career games and looked really good and strong. I think it’s a little early to plant flags on this situation. Charbs touches and involvement started at 1/3 of Walkers and climbed progressively each week.

I think many people forget that rookies don’t always splash week 1-5 just because we drafted them. Rewind a couple seasons and look at Amon Ra…through his first 12 games he went for 39-352-0 and his last 6 games he went for 51-560-5 and we all know how that story ended.

Rookies can splash at different times…sometimes it’s the coaching staff intentionally bringing them along slowly as they acclimate to the NFL and sometimes it might be overwhelming for the player and things need to slow down which may take time and sometimes guys hit the ground running.

The moral of the story is don’t make up your mind prematurely and watch what’s actually happening and react. If you have a deep bench or are holding a crappy 2nd TE or Bourne/Burks/Woods type wr as your number 5 wr, I’d look to drop them and pick up this kid (or Spears) if they’re on your wires.

I give up.

People have come here for months and posted how Charbs is the better back without him having played a single down.
We are now three games in. I'm sorry if some of you can't see it or just refuse to accept it.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

ok, that's a different debate that I wasn't a part of. Even still, the debate isn't over by the 3rd game of a guys career...especially when he looks this good.

 

[Biabreakable]

Some of you are still holding on I see. If Walker remains healthy, he is the guy. Period.

I really don't understand how some can say Charbs has looked "really good" while questioning how good Walker has been.

Walker:
47 carries for 204 yards and 4 TD's. 4.3 average. 8 catches for 73 yards. 9.1 average

Charbs:
16 carries for 73 yards and zero TD's. 4.6 average. 3 catches for 13 yards. 4.3 average.

You’re comparing the incoming starter against a guy who has played 3 career games and looked really good and strong. I think it’s a little early to plant flags on this situation. Charbs touches and involvement started at 1/3 of Walkers and climbed progressively each week.

I think many people forget that rookies don’t always splash week 1-5 just because we drafted them. Rewind a couple seasons and look at Amon Ra…through his first 12 games he went for 39-352-0 and his last 6 games he went for 51-560-5 and we all know how that story ended.

Rookies can splash at different times…sometimes it’s the coaching staff intentionally bringing them along slowly as they acclimate to the NFL and sometimes it might be overwhelming for the player and things need to slow down which may take time and sometimes guys hit the ground running.

The moral of the story is don’t make up your mind prematurely and watch what’s actually happening and react. If you have a deep bench or are holding a crappy 2nd TE or Bourne/Burks/Woods type wr as your number 5 wr, I’d look to drop them and pick up this kid (or Spears) if they’re on your wires.

I give up.

People have come here for months and posted how Charbs is the better back without him having played a single down.
We are now three games in. I'm sorry if some of you can't see it or just refuse to accept it.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

ok, that's a different debate that I wasn't a part of. Even still, the debate isn't over by the 3rd game of a guys career...especially when he looks this good.

FWIW I thought your previous statement that Payne is giving up on was measured and nuanced. You said to keep an open mind and just see how things develop.

I dont have any problem with that. It works both ways and nothing to just reject and walk away from.

I wouldnt go so far as to say either is clearly better than the other based on such a small sample size of data as I think some have said.

While the trending data is interesting and something to be aware of regardless of ones position or opinion about this, its too early to know if that trend will continue over the next few games or not. That remains to be seen.

 

[Banger]

Some of you are still holding on I see. If Walker remains healthy, he is the guy. Period.

I really don't understand how some can say Charbs has looked "really good" while questioning how good Walker has been.

Walker:
47 carries for 204 yards and 4 TD's. 4.3 average. 8 catches for 73 yards. 9.1 average

Charbs:
16 carries for 73 yards and zero TD's. 4.6 average. 3 catches for 13 yards. 4.3 average.

You’re comparing the incoming starter against a guy who has played 3 career games and looked really good and strong. I think it’s a little early to plant flags on this situation. Charbs touches and involvement started at 1/3 of Walkers and climbed progressively each week.

I think many people forget that rookies don’t always splash week 1-5 just because we drafted them. Rewind a couple seasons and look at Amon Ra…through his first 12 games he went for 39-352-0 and his last 6 games he went for 51-560-5 and we all know how that story ended.

Rookies can splash at different times…sometimes it’s the coaching staff intentionally bringing them along slowly as they acclimate to the NFL and sometimes it might be overwhelming for the player and things need to slow down which may take time and sometimes guys hit the ground running.

The moral of the story is don’t make up your mind prematurely and watch what’s actually happening and react. If you have a deep bench or are holding a crappy 2nd TE or Bourne/Burks/Woods type wr as your number 5 wr, I’d look to drop them and pick up this kid (or Spears) if they’re on your wires.

I give up.

People have come here for months and posted how Charbs is the better back without him having played a single down.
We are now three games in. I'm sorry if some of you can't see it or just refuse to accept it.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

ok, that's a different debate that I wasn't a part of. Even still, the debate isn't over by the 3rd game of a guys career...especially when he looks this good.

FWIW I thought your previous statement that Payne is giving up on was measured and nuanced. You said to keep an open mind and just see how things develop.

I dont have any problem with that. It works both ways and nothing to just reject and walk away from.

I wouldnt go so far as to say either is clearly better than the other based on such a small sample size of data as I think some have said.

While the trending data is interesting and something to be aware of regardless of ones position or opinion about this, its too early to know if that trend will continue over the next few games or not. That remains to be seen.

Ya, I get it, I've been in those debates where the sides dig in and you want to be right. Sounds like it was more a dynasty discussion. I'm not discounting Walker at all...I think he's been very good. I was very confused why the FF community had him so low coming into the year when he performed so well as a rookie last year and is on a team that historically runs a lot and runs effectively. that's a different thread though. I own Walker in a league and picked up Charbs after this past weekend in another. I was speaking from a redraft perspectvie.

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

Seems to be a ton of wishful thinking in here while ignoring how Pete has run the Seahawks since he has been HC.

Unless injury,Charbs is not a viable week to week start. He will score a TD at some point and you may get lucky. But he will not see above 9 carries per game except as an occasional outlier. And he is not the GL back or pass catching back either.

Handcuff back. And maybe a good one. We will see when the time comes. Big difference between what he is doing v carrying the load like Walker is.

It depends on options. I have crap options. Using him as a placeholder for the chance Saquon can play is better than gambling on Akers or Jaylen Warren earlier on.

 

[Lansdowne]

Some of you are still holding on I see. If Walker remains healthy, he is the guy. Period.

I really don't understand how some can say Charbs has looked "really good" while questioning how good Walker has been.

Walker:
47 carries for 204 yards and 4 TD's. 4.3 average. 8 catches for 73 yards. 9.1 average

Charbs:
16 carries for 73 yards and zero TD's. 4.6 average. 3 catches for 13 yards. 4.3 average.

I’d caution on using YPC as a measure especially considering Kenneth Walker has officially gotten 8 goal-to-go carries so far:

—
DET 1 yard line (no gain)
DET 1 yard line (TD)
—
DET 3 yard line (TD)
—
DET 7 yard line (no gain)
—
CAR 4 yard line (3 yard gain)
CAR 1 yard line (no gain)
CAR 1 yard line (TD)
—
CAR 7 yard line (TD)
—

That’s 15 yards gained on 8 tries, but context matters, because these are split up into 5 different drives, and he scored the touchdown in all but 1 of them (the no gain from the Lions 7 yard line).

As Faust posted earlier, Zach Charbonnet has seen his snap share increase gradually at Walker’s expense from Week 1 to Week 3. But not enough to make a fantasy impact just yet. Charbonnet still has little involvement in goal-to-go situations, only 2 of them actually:

DET 5 yard line (2 yard gain)
CAR 2 yard line (3 yard loss)

2 carries for -1 yard. Both drives concluded with a short TD pass on the next play (one to Tyler Lockett, one to Jake Bobo).

Walker is seeing the bulk of the work with Charbonnet being used more as RB2 over DeeJay Dallas, but that’s it. Walker has gotten the most touches in both the running and receiving game. Things can certainly change over time but right now it’s advantage Walker and health permitting I’d expect it to remain that way. Charbonnet is certainly still a high end handcuff though if health isn’t on Walker’s side. I just don’t expect Charbonnet to do enough to turn this into a Jonathan Stewart/DeAngelo Williams type split.

 

[Faust]

NFL Rookies: Top 15 highest-graded players after Week 4

Excerpt:

15. RB ZACH CHARBONNET, SEATTLE SEAHAWKS: 75.8​

Coming out of UCLA, Charbonnet’s reputation as a bruiser with the ball in his hand was well known, and that’s a reputation he has lived up to this far into his NFL career. On Monday night, he forced three missed tackles on just five carries. He has also been great as a pass-blocker, as he has yet to allow a pressure and has put up an 85.2 pass-block grade that ranks sixth among all backs.

 

[RaidersAreOne]

Sounds like he practiced fully yesterday, while Walker missed practice. Is he an almost must start if Walker is out?

 

[Wrigley]

Sounds like he practiced fully yesterday, while Walker missed practice. Is he an almost must start if Walker is out?

You betcha

 

[Smack Tripper]

Sounds like he practiced fully yesterday, while Walker missed practice. Is he an almost must start if Walker is out?

Against Cleveland?

 

[Lansdowne]

Sounds like he practiced fully yesterday, while Walker missed practice. Is he an almost must start if Walker is out?

The volume of work Charbonnet should get without Walker makes him startable, the catch being that Browns defense is no joke and it was already looking like a dicey matchup for Walker before the injury. Consider him ahead of the Mattison/Pierce/Henderson types for this week.

 

[Terpman22]

Sounds like he practiced fully yesterday, while Walker missed practice. Is he an almost must start if Walker is out?

Against Cleveland?

I am going to start him. Hoping he can also catch 3+ passes

 

[Smack Tripper]

Sounds like he practiced fully yesterday, while Walker missed practice. Is he an almost must start if Walker is out?

Against Cleveland?

I am going to start him. Hoping he can also catch 3+ passes

I can see rolling him, always depends on roster size, but in a week with no byes, unless you have walker I dont know if he's in must start space. But not opposed just saying devils advocate

 

[Terpman22]

Sounds like he practiced fully yesterday, while Walker missed practice. Is he an almost must start if Walker is out?

Against Cleveland?

I am going to start him. Hoping he can also catch 3+ passes

I can see rolling him, always depends on roster size, but in a week with no byes, unless you have walker I dont know if he's in must start space. But not opposed just saying devils advocate

Oh yeah, my team just sucks

 

[C-Bound]

Will drop JWJ for him if I hear Walker is out.

 

[grateful zed]

start him over Henderson.LAR?