RBBC in Miami? (1 Viewer)

[gregjcross]

Make it six or eight weeks.. But your point is you think Brown is going to blow in 2007. Fantasy drafts are over, so all anyone can do now is predict PPG to figure out who they will start = or cry about their bad draft choices.

Icon:Seeing that you have R. Brown opinioned as finishing much lower than consensus, we can check back after three games, and if Brown is getting the over and under of roughly 13 to 14 fantasy PPG, your call about his falling further down will be proven right or wrong. If he is below 11 ppg, your point is well taken. That's really all there is too it. I noticed the fantasy concensus here is 12.75 PPG, with 9 total tds, 300 receiving and 1179 rushing

If you bite into this hype of Chatman, go ahead, my point is that its been repeated in pres-season since the beginning of time.

I don't bite into any of hte hype regarding the Miami running game. It was one of several that I completely avoided this year. Too many people overpaying for suspect production.

FPPG over 3 games is a bit of a small sample size with the volatility of TDs.... but we can take a peek at this thread after that point if you want. My primary assertions here have been the breakout of carries.. not points over the first quarter of the season.... but we shall see. Damn shame nobody wants to give me some action on the under 73% of carries though

 

[TinHat]

See the run at 1:06 for example.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/ronnie-b...iefs/4100779002

You mean the one where he gets caught from behind and one-arm tackled by a 90 yr old Ty Law?That one?

 

[TwinTurbo]

It sounds like Cameron really doesn't think very highly of Brown. So it doesn't matter if he is better than Chatman. This situation goes beyond coachspeak to motivate a guy. It looks like the classic "I'm the new coach and I have a big ego" situation. It appears that Chatman will not only be getting more carries, he may actually start some games too. The only thing Brown owners can hope for (me included) is for Ronnie to have some huge games early and put all this nonsense to rest.

 

[packersfan]

It sounds like Cameron really doesn't think very highly of Brown. So it doesn't matter if he is better than Chatman. This situation goes beyond coachspeak to motivate a guy. It looks like the classic "I'm the new coach and I have a big ego" situation. It appears that Chatman will not only be getting more carries, he may actually start some games too. The only thing Brown owners can hope for (me included) is for Ronnie to have some huge games early and put all this nonsense to rest.

That's the vibe I've been getting and it's why I avoided Brown and downgraded him heading into my draft. There's something going on here and maybe at the end of the season we'll find out what it is. But Cameron does not seem to be a Brown guy at all. So whether Brown is more talented than Chatman may not be the point. It may simply come down to Cameron not trusting Brown and wanting to go with someone else or at least get someone else involved as well.

 

[[icon]]

Make it six or eight weeks.. But your point is you think Brown is going to blow in 2007.

No... my point is Brown will be getting a smaller chunk of carries than some predict (IMHO 60-65%) and therefore will not be earning enough points to warrant his draft slot. However, if you feel you need to put words in my mouth, then by all means

 

[TwinTurbo]

It sounds like Cameron really doesn't think very highly of Brown. So it doesn't matter if he is better than Chatman. This situation goes beyond coachspeak to motivate a guy. It looks like the classic "I'm the new coach and I have a big ego" situation. It appears that Chatman will not only be getting more carries, he may actually start some games too. The only thing Brown owners can hope for (me included) is for Ronnie to have some huge games early and put all this nonsense to rest.

That's the vibe I've been getting and it's why I avoided Brown and downgraded him heading into my draft. There's something going on here and maybe at the end of the season we'll find out what it is. But Cameron does not seem to be a Brown guy at all. So whether Brown is more talented than Chatman may not be the point. It may simply come down to Cameron not trusting Brown and wanting to go with someone else or at least get someone else involved as well.

Yes I agree. With all the comments that I've read, it reallys seems to go beyond a simple RBBC. If you read between the lines, it sounds like Brown is not part of Cam's long term plans.

 

[kurtrudder]

Is it safe to write off Lorenzo Booker's 2007 fantasy value or is there any reason for hope there?

all hearsay, but isn't Booker supposed to be 3rd down back? or did I hear wrong? Like a Leon Washington sort of role from last season...anyone? input would be welcome

I believe that Booker is the x-factor in all of this RBBC talk in Miami and his touches need to be factored in to the analysis here. 30+ catches from Booker and 100+ carries from Chatman really need to be factored into Brown's projections for this year. Based on everything that has been happening in Miami with the putrid o-line, Brown being in Cameron's doghouse and then not committing to him as the no.1 RB on this team, along with Cameron drafting his RB of choice in Booker and signing a RB he worked with in San Diego, IMO there are enough red flags here for me to avoid Ronnie Brown this season, let someone else take that risk in the 2nd round since it's hard to see any significant upside with this guy in 07.

 

[strong]

Hi Icon,

I'm a bit suspect of this statement. with all due respect, have you watched any MIA preseason footage? I've been watching what I can (MIA homer) and I'm surprised at everyone saying Brown isn't running hard. Here's some footage I dug up (plus the Colston ad is cool too). I'm still calling BS on Cam and regarding it as coach speak. Now come end of Sunday I might be whistling a different tune, but IMO Brown deserves the full time MIA RB gig. Just to be clear I think the MIA running game is suspect like most, but claiming Brown sucks is a bit premature. See the run at 1:06 for example.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/ronnie-b...iefs/4100779002

Thanks for the link to the video. You can see his strength and instincts in several plays from the Chiefs game. Ronnie Brown haters are really surprising me. I don't know where these people come from. Sounds to me like this camp is drinking the koolaid that some peeved Miami reporters are serving.

The guy has averaged 4.3 ypc behind a very very poor offensive line and with poor quarterback play. Sure his touchdown numbers are low but the Dolphins have hardly been in the redzone the last couple years. In yardage heavy leagues and ppr leagues, Brown should be picked near the end of the first round pick or first couple picks of the second round.

Instead of putting some money on percentage of carries since that will mostly be determined by injury, I'll bet anyone here that Brown has a better YPC than Chatman this year. No way Chatman gets 4.0 behind that line.

Deal?

 

[kurtrudder]

Hi Icon,

I'm a bit suspect of this statement. with all due respect, have you watched any MIA preseason footage? I've been watching what I can (MIA homer) and I'm surprised at everyone saying Brown isn't running hard. Here's some footage I dug up (plus the Colston ad is cool too). I'm still calling BS on Cam and regarding it as coach speak. Now come end of Sunday I might be whistling a different tune, but IMO Brown deserves the full time MIA RB gig. Just to be clear I think the MIA running game is suspect like most, but claiming Brown sucks is a bit premature. See the run at 1:06 for example.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/ronnie-b...iefs/4100779002

Thanks for the link to the video. You can see his strength and instincts in several plays from the Chiefs game. Ronnie Brown haters are really surprising me. I don't know where these people come from. Sounds to me like this camp is drinking the koolaid that some peeved Miami reporters are serving.

The guy has averaged 4.3 ypc behind a very very poor offensive line and with poor quarterback play. Sure his touchdown numbers are low but the Dolphins have hardly been in the redzone the last couple years. In yardage heavy leagues and ppr leagues, Brown should be picked near the end of the first round pick or first couple picks of the second round.

Instead of putting some money on percentage of carries since that will mostly be determined by injury, I'll bet anyone here that Brown has a better YPC than Chatman this year. No way Chatman gets 4.0 behind that line.

Deal?

no one is going to take that wager because no one here is saying that Chatman is more talented than Ronnie Brown

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Fins homer, and Ronnie Brown owner here.

The dolphins cut Cory Schelssinger, leaving them with 1 FB on their roster - Reagan Mauia who is a rookie. Speculation on the Fins forums is that they will go with several 2 RB sets, with one of the RBs going in motion to split out wide. L.Booker may find a role in this system as well, as he creates mismatches with his speed. Exotic offense is Cam's forte, so I am on board with this theory.

This concept supports Cam's assertion that both RBs will play, while also allowing for the possibility that Ronnie will still be the featured RB. Most Fins fans believe this to be the case. Bias aside, I believe this to be the case as well. Despite some of the opinions that Ronnie had a bad preseason, I watched every game and I saw him running hard, and running well. Chatman was a surprise, but the reality is that most of the yardage came on one 74 yard run (which was sweet), and an 11 yard statue of liberty play (which was also sweet). Aside from those 2 runs, Jesse was a below average RB. I am not taking away either run, because both were very nice and both required talent - just saying that he did not look like a player that would even have made the team if not for those 2 plays.

I admit to being worried as a RB owner right now - but not nearly as worried as some on this thread seem to think I should be.

 

[Crew Love]

Fins homer, and Ronnie Brown owner here.The dolphins cut Cory Schelssinger, leaving them with 1 FB on their roster - Reagan Mauia who is a rookie. Speculation on the Fins forums is that they will go with several 2 RB sets, with one of the RBs going in motion to split out wide. L.Booker may find a role in this system as well, as he creates mismatches with his speed. Exotic offense is Cam's forte, so I am on board with this theory.This concept supports Cam's assertion that both RBs will play, while also allowing for the possibility that Ronnie will still be the featured RB. Most Fins fans believe this to be the case. Bias aside, I believe this to be the case as well. Despite some of the opinions that Ronnie had a bad preseason, I watched every game and I saw him running hard, and running well. Chatman was a surprise, but the reality is that most of the yardage came on one 74 yard run (which was sweet), and an 11 yard statue of liberty play (which was also sweet). Aside from those 2 runs, Jesse was a below average RB. I am not taking away either run, because both were very nice and both required talent - just saying that he did not look like a player that would even have made the team if not for those 2 plays.I admit to being worried as a RB owner right now - but not nearly as worried as some on this thread seem to think I should be.

 

[Sultans]

To say Ronnie Brown has sucked is utterly ridiculous. The man engages contact in the backfield on half of his carries. He has played behind a consensus bottom 5 offensive line ( preseason O Line rankings 2006) which to my knowledge is still inexperienced and putrid. His QB's were Daunte and Harrington, words to describe how pathetic both of them play the position are not necessary with this group. He still averaged 4.2 yards a tote. Rudi Johnson averaged 3.8? Put Brown on the Bengals he will rush for 1500 yards and 12 scores guaranteed. Reunite him with Linehan in St. Louis and those lofty 2006 preseason rankings would have probably been realized. Brown can catch 90 balls. He was rated as the player with the BEST hands in the 2005 draft by the scouting professionals. This included wideouts as well. Exchange Jackson and Brown and they would certainly be rated a little differently this year.

I almost feel that Cam is making Ronnie a scapegoat here. Perhaps Cam didn't realize the talent level difference between the Bolts and the Fins. Most of LT's TD's over the last couple of years, he hasn't had a finger laid on him. I have always read what a strong character guy Ronnie is/was and doubt that he is not working hard.

The two best players on the Fins unfortunately play Defense. Playing in the tough AFC East unfortunately spells disappointment again and a possible RBBC. Brown will run on the obvious running downs post modest totals, and then Chatman will possibly come in 3rd downs, run for 12 a couple of times and maybe get some more carries.

Bottom line, avoiding Ronnie Brown is a good idea in the 2nd round because the Dolphins are pathetic, they play in a great division and their O Line is hardly NFL grade. Whether a RBBC develops or not will not be Brown's fault.

 

[Horses Mouth]

See the run at 1:06 for example.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/ronnie-b...iefs/4100779002

You mean the one where he gets caught from behind and one-arm tackled by a 90 yr old Ty Law?That one?

 

[Thumper]

See the run at 1:06 for example.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/ronnie-b...iefs/4100779002

You mean the one where he gets caught from behind and one-arm tackled by a 90 yr old Ty Law?That one?

Jesse Chatman = steal of the draft?

 

[kurtrudder]

To say Ronnie Brown has sucked is utterly ridiculous. The man engages contact in the backfield on half of his carries. He has played behind a consensus bottom 5 offensive line ( preseason O Line rankings 2006) which to my knowledge is still inexperienced and putrid. His QB's were Daunte and Harrington, words to describe how pathetic both of them play the position are not necessary with this group. He still averaged 4.2 yards a tote. Rudi Johnson averaged 3.8? Put Brown on the Bengals he will rush for 1500 yards and 12 scores guaranteed. Reunite him with Linehan in St. Louis and those lofty 2006 preseason rankings would have probably been realized. Brown can catch 90 balls. He was rated as the player with the BEST hands in the 2005 draft by the scouting professionals. This included wideouts as well. Exchange Jackson and Brown and they would certainly be rated a little differently this year.I almost feel that Cam is making Ronnie a scapegoat here. Perhaps Cam didn't realize the talent level difference between the Bolts and the Fins. Most of LT's TD's over the last couple of years, he hasn't had a finger laid on him. I have always read what a strong character guy Ronnie is/was and doubt that he is not working hard. The two best players on the Fins unfortunately play Defense. Playing in the tough AFC East unfortunately spells disappointment again and a possible RBBC. Brown will run on the obvious running downs post modest totals, and then Chatman will possibly come in 3rd downs, run for 12 a couple of times and maybe get some more carries.Bottom line, avoiding Ronnie Brown is a good idea in the 2nd round because the Dolphins are pathetic, they play in a great division and their O Line is hardly NFL grade. Whether a RBBC develops or not will not be Brown's fault.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

To say Ronnie Brown has sucked is utterly ridiculous. The man engages contact in the backfield on half of his carries. He has played behind a consensus bottom 5 offensive line ( preseason O Line rankings 2006) which to my knowledge is still inexperienced and putrid. His QB's were Daunte and Harrington, words to describe how pathetic both of them play the position are not necessary with this group. He still averaged 4.2 yards a tote. Rudi Johnson averaged 3.8? Put Brown on the Bengals he will rush for 1500 yards and 12 scores guaranteed. Reunite him with Linehan in St. Louis and those lofty 2006 preseason rankings would have probably been realized. Brown can catch 90 balls. He was rated as the player with the BEST hands in the 2005 draft by the scouting professionals. This included wideouts as well. Exchange Jackson and Brown and they would certainly be rated a little differently this year.

I almost feel that Cam is making Ronnie a scapegoat here. Perhaps Cam didn't realize the talent level difference between the Bolts and the Fins. Most of LT's TD's over the last couple of years, he hasn't had a finger laid on him. I have always read what a strong character guy Ronnie is/was and doubt that he is not working hard.

The two best players on the Fins unfortunately play Defense. Playing in the tough AFC East unfortunately spells disappointment again and a possible RBBC. Brown will run on the obvious running downs post modest totals, and then Chatman will possibly come in 3rd downs, run for 12 a couple of times and maybe get some more carries.

Bottom line, avoiding Ronnie Brown is a good idea in the 2nd round because the Dolphins are pathetic, they play in a great division and their O Line is hardly NFL grade. Whether a RBBC develops or not will not be Brown's fault.

Very good post.

I do not personally disagree with anything in here, although I do allow for the possibility that some of the highlighted sentence might not be quite as conclusive as it looks. Basically, I am holding out hope as a Fins fan that some of this will prove false by season's end - and there is hope.

They may not be as pathetic as predicted this season. With Mularkey and Saban calling plays last year, and Harrington at QB, it is not completely a foregone conclusion that this season's offense will resemble last season's. Cam may be unorthodox, but he is a proven offensive mind. Green may be old, but he is an upgrade over the drecht that was here last year.

As far as the O-Line, it was widely assumed that the OL in San Diego was garbage a few years ago, and behind the coaching of Hudson Houck and Cam Cameron they turned trash into treasure. The Miami OL is young and hungry, and has the same 2 guys coaching it that worked wonders in SD. They may be bottom 5 again, but there is reason for (guarded) optimism that they will be improved.

Regarding the division - Obviously NE is great. The Jets? Maybe. The D was not spectacular though. The Bills are nothing to fear either, so aside from the 2 against NE, the division is not so intimidating.

The Fins D is going to be awesome this season. JT, Zack, Porter, Crowder are a great core, and by this time next year we will be talking about Matt Roth the same way. I dont know how opposing OLs are going to keep their QBs alive this season. The D should put the O in good positions to succeed ths season. They did last year, but the O was simply not competent enough to take advantage. I think this year might be different, but I am CLEARLY biased.

 

[BoltBacker]

Bottom line, avoiding Ronnie Brown is a good idea in the 2nd round because the Dolphins are pathetic, they play in a great division and their O Line is hardly NFL grade. Whether a RBBC develops or not will not be Brown's fault.

Glad I avoided the Saints last year.

 

[moleculo]

one thing that concerns me is that the Dolphins have 11 rookies on their roster. 20% of the team played in college last year. Wow.

 

[Bri]

whatever it is, kudos to Jesse for sticking with it. He didn't just make the team, he's playing

 

[Sultans]

To say Ronnie Brown has sucked is utterly ridiculous. The man engages contact in the backfield on half of his carries. He has played behind a consensus bottom 5 offensive line ( preseason O Line rankings 2006) which to my knowledge is still inexperienced and putrid. His QB's were Daunte and Harrington, words to describe how pathetic both of them play the position are not necessary with this group. He still averaged 4.2 yards a tote. Rudi Johnson averaged 3.8? Put Brown on the Bengals he will rush for 1500 yards and 12 scores guaranteed. Reunite him with Linehan in St. Louis and those lofty 2006 preseason rankings would have probably been realized. Brown can catch 90 balls. He was rated as the player with the BEST hands in the 2005 draft by the scouting professionals. This included wideouts as well. Exchange Jackson and Brown and they would certainly be rated a little differently this year.

I almost feel that Cam is making Ronnie a scapegoat here. Perhaps Cam didn't realize the talent level difference between the Bolts and the Fins. Most of LT's TD's over the last couple of years, he hasn't had a finger laid on him. I have always read what a strong character guy Ronnie is/was and doubt that he is not working hard.

The two best players on the Fins unfortunately play Defense. Playing in the tough AFC East unfortunately spells disappointment again and a possible RBBC. Brown will run on the obvious running downs post modest totals, and then Chatman will possibly come in 3rd downs, run for 12 a couple of times and maybe get some more carries.

Bottom line, avoiding Ronnie Brown is a good idea in the 2nd round because the Dolphins are pathetic, they play in a great division and their O Line is hardly NFL grade. Whether a RBBC develops or not will not be Brown's fault.

Very good post.

I do not personally disagree with anything in here, although I do allow for the possibility that some of the highlighted sentence might not be quite as conclusive as it looks. Basically, I am holding out hope as a Fins fan that some of this will prove false by season's end - and there is hope.

They may not be as pathetic as predicted this season. With Mularkey and Saban calling plays last year, and Harrington at QB, it is not completely a foregone conclusion that this season's offense will resemble last season's. Cam may be unorthodox, but he is a proven offensive mind. Green may be old, but he is an upgrade over the drecht that was here last year.

As far as the O-Line, it was widely assumed that the OL in San Diego was garbage a few years ago, and behind the coaching of Hudson Houck and Cam Cameron they turned trash into treasure. The Miami OL is young and hungry, and has the same 2 guys coaching it that worked wonders in SD. They may be bottom 5 again, but there is reason for (guarded) optimism that they will be improved.

Regarding the division - Obviously NE is great. The Jets? Maybe. The D was not spectacular though. The Bills are nothing to fear either, so aside from the 2 against NE, the division is not so intimidating.

The Fins D is going to be awesome this season. JT, Zack, Porter, Crowder are a great core, and by this time next year we will be talking about Matt Roth the same way. I dont know how opposing OLs are going to keep their QBs alive this season. The D should put the O in good positions to succeed ths season. They did last year, but the O was simply not competent enough to take advantage. I think this year might be different, but I am CLEARLY biased.

What kind of fan would you be without your well thought out optimism? I really love Ronnie Brown as a talent and would love to see all of the above happen so the Brown haters would shut up. I just would feel more comfy taking Steve Smith. Harrison or Owens in the slot it will take to get Brown this year. Do you think Ronnie's receiving talents will be utilized more this year ChucK?

 

[ffchamp1]

Boy with all these brown owners in here I'd be certain by now someone would be taking me up on my wager offer... I mean 73% of carries is a LOCK right?

When I did some analysis last year, I was amazed at the low percentage of carries the top guys got. Reuben Droughns led the NFL in % carries on his team @ 78%.My conclusion was that there is really no definition of RBBC: every team is RBBC to some degree. Some of the top guys in the NFL got ~65% of the carries. Consider that the average NFL team rushed 451 times last year - 300 carries is about 66%. Only 10 players eclipsed the 300 carry mark. 66% of an average rushing team will get you top 10 in the NFL in terms of # of carries.Yes, I am a Brown owner, and a fan. But I try to be rational about it here, and I can't see anything but good in his situation.

This is the best post yet. I am amazed at how few people do not realize that 80% is a totally unrealistic number, especially for Brown and the Dolphins. While I am not high on Chatman, I do not believe for one minute that Brown is remotley close to a #1 back.Tom

 

[TinHat]

See the run at 1:06 for example.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/ronnie-b...iefs/4100779002

You mean the one where he gets caught from behind and one-arm tackled by a 90 yr old Ty Law?That one?

Maybe a little bit, but if you watch the replay, he had a hell of a hole, and he does indeed get chased down and one-arm tackled from behind by Ty Law.After watching the video, I'm wodering if the Dolphins OL may have been underrated.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

What kind of fan would you be without your well thought out optimism? I really love Ronnie Brown as a talent and would love to see all of the above happen so the Brown haters would shut up. I just would feel more comfy taking Steve Smith. Harrison or Owens in the slot it will take to get Brown this year. Do you think Ronnie's receiving talents will be utilized more this year ChucK?

I agree with you that the pick is better spent on a stud WR. Way too many question marks surrounding Ronnie right now. I took him with the 8th pick in the 2nd round ahead of T.O. and Harrison. I regret it now, but I have not by any means lost all hope that it will prove to be the right choice.

I think he will be utilized a lot more in the passing game this season. I think he will be going in motion out of the backfield into the slot or even out wide with some regularity this season. I think Cam is going to be very creative this season. He was creative and unpredictable in SD when he had the talent to just line his 11 up against theirs and flat out beat them. In Miami he does not have that luxury, so he will really have to get creative. Ronnie as a receiver will be a part of that creativity.

 

[TinHat]

http://dolphinsindepth.blogspot.com/2007/0...l-begin-in.html

Cameron has confirmed what I wrote last week about the running back competition: Brown and Jesse Chatman will share the load this year, regardless of which one starts from week to week. In that regard, the committee meeting of the Dolphins running attack is in session.

"You need two backs in this business," Cameron said. "You can't interpret that as a negative. But you'll see both those backs in a game."

FWIW

No shock here, I see it playing out with Brown getting about 15 carries a game and Chatman getting about 10. Not a true RBBC but close, with Chatman having the upside.

Your being generous for Chatman i say 20 - 5 actually like almost evry team . So nothing not expected.

Does every other team have a starting back who's sucked horribly... who has been publicly stated to be in the coaches doghouse? Is every other backfield subject to so much press anticipating the starter losing his job? I suspect "your" [sic] either a Brown owner or someone who isn't exactly in tune with how things work in the NFL...

Sorry but when did he suck horribky most think he actually did very well behind that awful OL .2006 241 carries 1008 yds 4,2 ypc 5 TD's

2005 207 carries 907 yds 4,4 ypc 4 TD's

If you call that sucking horribly your probably the one who isn't exactly in tune with how things work in the NFL...

( The guy would have a 6ypc average behind a OL like Denver ) the only knock on him was nt his performance but the injury he time he missed due to injuries . Please maybe you should think about writing your nonsense.

Aniway lets bring this back around week 4 or 5 i will have a good laugh .

in 2006, Sammy Morris and Lee Suggs both averaged 4.3 ypc behind that "awful OL."

 

[Joe Bryant]

Fins homer, and Ronnie Brown owner here.The dolphins cut Cory Schelssinger, leaving them with 1 FB on their roster - Reagan Mauia who is a rookie. Speculation on the Fins forums is that they will go with several 2 RB sets, with one of the RBs going in motion to split out wide. L.Booker may find a role in this system as well, as he creates mismatches with his speed. Exotic offense is Cam's forte, so I am on board with this theory.This concept supports Cam's assertion that both RBs will play, while also allowing for the possibility that Ronnie will still be the featured RB. Most Fins fans believe this to be the case. Bias aside, I believe this to be the case as well. Despite some of the opinions that Ronnie had a bad preseason, I watched every game and I saw him running hard, and running well. Chatman was a surprise, but the reality is that most of the yardage came on one 74 yard run (which was sweet), and an 11 yard statue of liberty play (which was also sweet). Aside from those 2 runs, Jesse was a below average RB. I am not taking away either run, because both were very nice and both required talent - just saying that he did not look like a player that would even have made the team if not for those 2 plays.I admit to being worried as a RB owner right now - but not nearly as worried as some on this thread seem to think I should be.

Good post, Chuck. I'm less optimistic than you are but it's quality posts like this from people that closely follow the team that make this forum what it is. J

 

[rascal]

So who would you rather have...

Kevin Jones or Chatman?

 

[Thumper]

So who would you rather have...Kevin Jones or Chatman?

The coach in Miami simply does not like Ronnie Brown.Congrats to those of you who took Chatman in the latter rounds of your draft. You may have gotten a 3rd value with a 20t round pick.

 

[War Eagle]

Fins homer, and Ronnie Brown owner here.The dolphins cut Cory Schelssinger, leaving them with 1 FB on their roster - Reagan Mauia who is a rookie. Speculation on the Fins forums is that they will go with several 2 RB sets, with one of the RBs going in motion to split out wide. L.Booker may find a role in this system as well, as he creates mismatches with his speed. Exotic offense is Cam's forte, so I am on board with this theory.This concept supports Cam's assertion that both RBs will play, while also allowing for the possibility that Ronnie will still be the featured RB. Most Fins fans believe this to be the case. Bias aside, I believe this to be the case as well. Despite some of the opinions that Ronnie had a bad preseason, I watched every game and I saw him running hard, and running well. Chatman was a surprise, but the reality is that most of the yardage came on one 74 yard run (which was sweet), and an 11 yard statue of liberty play (which was also sweet). Aside from those 2 runs, Jesse was a below average RB. I am not taking away either run, because both were very nice and both required talent - just saying that he did not look like a player that would even have made the team if not for those 2 plays.I admit to being worried as a RB owner right now - but not nearly as worried as some on this thread seem to think I should be.

 

[Ned]

what a beautiful buy low opportunity for brown.

 

[[icon]]

So who would you rather have...Kevin Jones or Chatman?

KJ hands down.

 

[menobrown]

When I did some analysis last year, I was amazed at the low percentage of carries the top guys got. Reuben Droughns led the NFL in % carries on his team @ 78%.

Sorry but that's bad data. First thing I did when I saw that was think to myself, LJ had to have more than 78% of his carries to I looked it up. His percentage was lower than I thought, around 81% of total team carries but that's kind of misleading as it pertains to this discussion as a lot of those carries were QB and WR carries. Since this discussion was about splitting the RB load the number I think the number that is more telling is that LJ got 417 out of 472 carries that went to RB's and FB's for an 88.3%.

 

[Joe Bryant]

what a beautiful buy low opportunity for brown.

Hi Ned, His value is definitely lower than it has been in a while.How do you see the ratio of carries going between Brown and Chatman?J

 

[ShadowMaster]

Take it from a local......

The SoFla fish faithful have faced a bunch of questionable moves all off season. None make much sense, but if Cam actually plays Jesse "who the hell is he" Chatmann over Ronnie Brown, he won't make it through Hurricane season.

 

[az_prof]

In 2006 running behind the same OL, Michael Bennett had a 5.6 ypc while LJ had only 4.3: does that prove that LJ sucks or that Bennett is better? Everyone knows that you have to look at backup RB ypc with a grain of salt because they come into the game in special situations designed to take advantage of their running style and ability and they usually don't have enough carries to be statistically meaningful.

http://dolphinsindepth.blogspot.com/2007/0...l-begin-in.html

Cameron has confirmed what I wrote last week about the running back competition: Brown and Jesse Chatman will share the load this year, regardless of which one starts from week to week. In that regard, the committee meeting of the Dolphins running attack is in session.

"You need two backs in this business," Cameron said. "You can't interpret that as a negative. But you'll see both those backs in a game."

FWIW

No shock here, I see it playing out with Brown getting about 15 carries a game and Chatman getting about 10. Not a true RBBC but close, with Chatman having the upside.

Your being generous for Chatman i say 20 - 5 actually like almost evry team . So nothing not expected.

Does every other team have a starting back who's sucked horribly... who has been publicly stated to be in the coaches doghouse? Is every other backfield subject to so much press anticipating the starter losing his job? I suspect "your" [sic] either a Brown owner or someone who isn't exactly in tune with how things work in the NFL...

Sorry but when did he suck horribky most think he actually did very well behind that awful OL .2006 241 carries 1008 yds 4,2 ypc 5 TD's

2005 207 carries 907 yds 4,4 ypc 4 TD's

If you call that sucking horribly your probably the one who isn't exactly in tune with how things work in the NFL...

( The guy would have a 6ypc average behind a OL like Denver ) the only knock on him was nt his performance but the injury he time he missed due to injuries . Please maybe you should think about writing your nonsense.

Aniway lets bring this back around week 4 or 5 i will have a good laugh .

in 2006, Sammy Morris and Lee Suggs both averaged 4.3 ypc behind that "awful OL."

 

[Joe Bryant]

Take it from a local......The SoFla fish faithful have faced a bunch of questionable moves all off season. None make much sense, but if Cam actually plays Jesse "who the hell is he" Chatmann over Ronnie Brown, he won't make it through Hurricane season.

Thanks SM.How indicative are you of the rest of the local feel there? Are you saying most Dolphin fans definitely want Brown as the clear cut #1 primary RB?I know lots of times the #2 guy is the fan favorite. But Chatman doesn't have that fan support?J

 

[moleculo]

When I did some analysis last year, I was amazed at the low percentage of carries the top guys got. Reuben Droughns led the NFL in % carries on his team @ 78%.

Sorry but that's bad data. First thing I did when I saw that was think to myself, LJ had to have more than 78% of his carries to I looked it up. His percentage was lower than I thought, around 81% of total team carries but that's kind of misleading as it pertains to this discussion as a lot of those carries were QB and WR carries. Since this discussion was about splitting the RB load the number I think the number that is more telling is that LJ got 417 out of 472 carries that went to RB's and FB's for an 88.3%.

no - I said I did the analysis last year. The 78% was for the 2005 season. Regarding LJ's carry #'s - 88% is ridiculously high. Whomever is keeping track> please add this to the reasons why I don't like LJ in 2007 (88% of carries is unsustainable. either he breaks down, or he has less carries. Something's gotta give).ETA: it could have been bad data too. Looking at the data today, I have Droughns getting 87% of his teams carries in 2005. Regardless, it doesn't change the conclusions wrt RBBC and how every team is in RBBC to some degree.

 

[mchaps55]

Thanks SM.How indicative are you of the rest of the local feel there? Are you saying most Dolphin fans definitely want Brown as the clear cut #1 primary RB?I know lots of times the #2 guy is the fan favorite. But Chatman doesn't have that fan support?J

Joe,Na media wise they are rippiing Cam alot for some of his moves and the chatman one falls right into place. However the Fans in general support Chatman and Like what they have seen in him. There are alot of Miami Fans that call into radio stations and rip on Brown. I think alot has to do with their bitterness towards saban and he being the one that brought him there. On a positive not Brown is a likeable guy and says all the right things.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

Take it from a local......

The SoFla fish faithful have faced a bunch of questionable moves all off season. None make much sense, but if Cam actually plays Jesse "who the hell is he" Chatmann over Ronnie Brown, he won't make it through Hurricane season.

Thanks SM.How indicative are you of the rest of the local feel there? Are you saying most Dolphin fans definitely want Brown as the clear cut #1 primary RB?

I know lots of times the #2 guy is the fan favorite. But Chatman doesn't have that fan support?

J

Hey Joe.Here is a link to a discussion on the Miami Herald forum that directly answers your question as to who the fans prefer. Upon quick glance, it seems to be unanimous in favor of Brown from the fan's perspective.

http://forums.miami.com/n/mb/message.asp?w...87.1&maxT=5

I think this is more of a no-brainer than anyone realizes myself.

 

[avoiding injuries]

I notice that Brown has 4 receptions in the preseason while Chatman didn't have any. Is Chatman not a receiving back? That would be a positive for Brown(I'm digging pretty hard here).

 

[Sinatrasdead]

I notice that Brown has 4 receptions in the preseason while Chatman didn't have any. Is Chatman not a receiving back? That would be a positive for Brown(I'm digging pretty hard here).

Chatman had 6 for 52 yards.

 

[Sinatrasdead]

I just looked at their career stats and while Brown has obviously had more carries Chatman has a 5.4 (79 carries) Brown averaged 4.3 yards (448 carries). In terms of receiving, Brown averaged 7.8 ypc (65 catches) and Chatman averaged 11 (only 10 catches).

 

[avoiding injuries]

I notice that Brown has 4 receptions in the preseason while Chatman didn't have any. Is Chatman not a receiving back? That would be a positive for Brown(I'm digging pretty hard here).

Chatman had 6 for 52 yards.

Oh. I was going off this link and it didn't have him listed under receptions.http://www.miamidolphins.com/newsite/team/...atisticspre.asp

 

[thehornet]

http://dolphinsindepth.blogspot.com/2007/0...l-begin-in.html

Cameron has confirmed what I wrote last week about the running back competition: Brown and Jesse Chatman will share the load this year, regardless of which one starts from week to week. In that regard, the committee meeting of the Dolphins running attack is in session.

"You need two backs in this business," Cameron said. "You can't interpret that as a negative. But you'll see both those backs in a game."

FWIW

No shock here, I see it playing out with Brown getting about 15 carries a game and Chatman getting about 10. Not a true RBBC but close, with Chatman having the upside.

Your being generous for Chatman i say 20 - 5 actually like almost evry team . So nothing not expected.

but this isnt a RBBC. This would be called "a 1 back system" with a backup spelling the starter a few times a game. This is clearly not CAM's intentions. Pay attention to the situation.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

http://dolphinsindepth.blogspot.com/2007/0...l-begin-in.html

Cameron has confirmed what I wrote last week about the running back competition: Brown and Jesse Chatman will share the load this year, regardless of which one starts from week to week. In that regard, the committee meeting of the Dolphins running attack is in session.

"You need two backs in this business," Cameron said. "You can't interpret that as a negative. But you'll see both those backs in a game."

FWIW

No shock here, I see it playing out with Brown getting about 15 carries a game and Chatman getting about 10. Not a true RBBC but close, with Chatman having the upside.

Your being generous for Chatman i say 20 - 5 actually like almost evry team . So nothing not expected.

but this isnt a RBBC. This would be called "a 1 back system" with a backup spelling the starter a few times a game. This is clearly not CAM's intentions. Pay attention to the situation.

With all due respect, I do not think Cam's intentions are clear at all.

 

[kurtrudder]

http://dolphinsindepth.blogspot.com/2007/0...l-begin-in.html

Cameron has confirmed what I wrote last week about the running back competition: Brown and Jesse Chatman will share the load this year, regardless of which one starts from week to week. In that regard, the committee meeting of the Dolphins running attack is in session.

"You need two backs in this business," Cameron said. "You can't interpret that as a negative. But you'll see both those backs in a game."

FWIW

No shock here, I see it playing out with Brown getting about 15 carries a game and Chatman getting about 10. Not a true RBBC but close, with Chatman having the upside.

Your being generous for Chatman i say 20 - 5 actually like almost evry team . So nothing not expected.

but this isnt a RBBC. This would be called "a 1 back system" with a backup spelling the starter a few times a game. This is clearly not CAM's intentions. Pay attention to the situation.

With all due respect, I do not think Cam's intentions are clear at all.

great call Chuck. If I was to try and decipher what Cam's intentions really are......I would say that he is trying to fire a rocket up Ronnie Brown's ### to get him focused and motivated. Cameron was blessed to have been associated with a RB like Tomlinson whose commitment to excellence and overall work ethic is legendary. It would be hard to not expect that from others and he probably thinks this is the best way to get the No.2 overall pick from 2005 to achieve his potential. All speculation obviously but as many here would know, sometimes to stay ahead of this game you need to hone your skills at reading between the lines.

 

[Ned]

what a beautiful buy low opportunity for brown.

Hi Ned, His value is definitely lower than it has been in a while.How do you see the ratio of carries going between Brown and Chatman?J

if ronnie gets anything less than 70%, i'll be surprised. we'll see in the coming weeks, but i think cam is just blowing a bunch of smoke...i dont own ronnie in a single league, but would love to get him now while this chatman stuff is in the news.

 

[Steel Town]

I'm thinking this may be a good time to sell high on Chatman, especially since he probably went undrafted in many leagues. It may pan out to be a RBBC, but if it doesn't he'll become worthless fairly quickly again.

Who are you selling Chatman high to before week 1? No one is going to give you anything valuable for Chatman....if he finds the end zone in week 1, then you can think about selling high. My point is, there can't be a team in any league that would make a trade for Chatman before week 1. If you own him, hold on and hope for the best. If you own Brown and not Chatman, then throw a feeler out to his owner if you like - but he can't be worth more than a mid range tight end, or a wr3 in my opinion.

 

[Traders2001]

( The guy would have a 6ypc average behind a OL like Denver )

I'm not even going to try to debate this any farther if we're going to start throwing out nuggets like this. Glll this season GB. If you want to lay any cash on the line I'll gladly set the O/U on Brown's share of Miami's carries at 75%. You want the over? (Just assuming so given your 20-5 projection (80/20 split)? You can name the stakes

Remember this , your lucky i did nt name the stakes.He s got 60 - 79 carries ( I dont count the 5 runs by Green running for his life ) .

 

[gregjcross]

you are right, It was a shame he stands at 81% after 5 games

Icon:Seeing that you have R. Brown opinioned as finishing much lower than consensus, we can check back after three games, and if Brown is getting the over and under of roughly 13 to 14 fantasy PPG, your call about his falling further down will be proven right or wrong. If he is below 11 ppg, your point is well taken. That's really all there is too it. I noticed the fantasy concensus here is 12.75 PPG, with 9 total tds, 300 receiving and 1179 rushing

If you bite into this hype of Chatman, go ahead, my point is that its been repeated in pres-season since the beginning of time.

I don't bite into any of hte hype regarding the Miami running game. It was one of several that I completely avoided this year. Too many people overpaying for suspect production.

FPPG over 3 games is a bit of a small sample size with the volatility of TDs.... but we can take a peek at this thread after that point if you want. My primary assertions here have been the breakout of carries.. not points over the first quarter of the season.... but we shall see. Damn shame nobody wants to give me some action on the under 73% of carries though