Redskins-Rams deal done for 2 pick (1 Viewer)

[Buck Stop]

pantherclub you can't say lump in the front office with Bruce Allen and Shanny along with the Cerrato years. Just look at the difference in the Skins approach to the draft and free agency last year with Allen vs the prior decade with Vinny.

 

[pantherclub]

pantherclub you can't say lump in the front office with Bruce Allen and Shanny along with the Cerrato years. Just look at the difference in the Skins approach to the draft and free agency last year with Allen vs the prior decade with Vinny.

Looking at their past 2 drafts I dont see a ton of impact talent on the board. Helu from last year and Williams from 2 years ago are the names that jump out to me but thats it.oops forgot about Kerrigan. Yeah he is pretty good as well.Maybe you are right then.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

People who think this is a bad trade for the Redskins are missing the point. You can argue that you think RG3 will be great or you think he will suck. The fact of the matter is the Redskins are in dire need for a franchise QB. This team was desperate for a QB last year, but traded out from the chance of drafting Gabbert. So obviously they hold RG3 in high regard. Here were there other options at QB:

1.) Stay put, draft Tannehill and then sign Orton. This would leave the skins in mediocrity next year and beyond that Tannehill has a much higher bust risk than RG3 in most expert's opinions. Sinking 3-4 more years into QB's that they are not sure is the answer is the wrong way to approach things.

2.) Stay put, sign Orton and draft a Brandon Weeden type. Second tier QB's have been a risky proposition at best in recent years. Again, they'd be in a position of hoping that the QB situation works out.

3.) Go balls out to sign Manning. Great QB, but the Skins need to get young, they aren't going to win the Super Bowl this year and Manning's window is pretty small. Also the team would be assuming a larger financial risk and would need to sink all their eggs into signing other big names to surround Manning. The Skins have been down this path before and it has not worked.

4.) Go balls out to sign Flynn. This was probably the next best option for them. Still, Flynn does carry some risk and would also bring a larger financial burden. They were never associated with Flynn and he doesn't seem to be a good fit for what they want to do.

Ultimately, if RG3 is a pro bowl caliber QB, this is a good trade for Washington. If he is not a good QB, it is a bad trade. It is impossible to judge it now, but as a Skins fan I love it. Sure, it sucks not having the 2 first rounders and the 2nd rounder, but if RG3 turns out to be what the Redskins and most NFL experts think he can be, it will be well worth it. The option of taking a QB that you like but don't love like a Blaine Gabbert and toiling in the bottom half of the league for the next half a decade or more is not all that appealing to me and most other Skins fans. At least RG3 gives them a chance to be great again. What is the worst that can happen? They finish dead last in the NFC East the last 4 years? Bottom line, this team needed to take a chance, I love it.

Actually they're trading 3 first rounders and a second. One of them a top 6 pick...

True, but they are getting one back. 3-1 = 2. They do have a 1st rounder this year. They don't in 2013 and 2014.

No, they are getting RGIII back <or> a first round pick... They aren't getting RGII and a first rounder... In return for RGIII, they trade 3 first rounders and a second.. Or in return for a first round pick they trade 3 first rounders and a second..

The cost for the player they want is THREE first rounders and a second rounder..

 

[pantherclub]

People who think this is a bad trade for the Redskins are missing the point. You can argue that you think RG3 will be great or you think he will suck. The fact of the matter is the Redskins are in dire need for a franchise QB. This team was desperate for a QB last year, but traded out from the chance of drafting Gabbert. So obviously they hold RG3 in high regard. Here were there other options at QB:

1.) Stay put, draft Tannehill and then sign Orton. This would leave the skins in mediocrity next year and beyond that Tannehill has a much higher bust risk than RG3 in most expert's opinions. Sinking 3-4 more years into QB's that they are not sure is the answer is the wrong way to approach things.

2.) Stay put, sign Orton and draft a Brandon Weeden type. Second tier QB's have been a risky proposition at best in recent years. Again, they'd be in a position of hoping that the QB situation works out.

3.) Go balls out to sign Manning. Great QB, but the Skins need to get young, they aren't going to win the Super Bowl this year and Manning's window is pretty small. Also the team would be assuming a larger financial risk and would need to sink all their eggs into signing other big names to surround Manning. The Skins have been down this path before and it has not worked.

4.) Go balls out to sign Flynn. This was probably the next best option for them. Still, Flynn does carry some risk and would also bring a larger financial burden. They were never associated with Flynn and he doesn't seem to be a good fit for what they want to do.

Ultimately, if RG3 is a pro bowl caliber QB, this is a good trade for Washington. If he is not a good QB, it is a bad trade. It is impossible to judge it now, but as a Skins fan I love it. Sure, it sucks not having the 2 first rounders and the 2nd rounder, but if RG3 turns out to be what the Redskins and most NFL experts think he can be, it will be well worth it. The option of taking a QB that you like but don't love like a Blaine Gabbert and toiling in the bottom half of the league for the next half a decade or more is not all that appealing to me and most other Skins fans. At least RG3 gives them a chance to be great again. What is the worst that can happen? They finish dead last in the NFC East the last 4 years? Bottom line, this team needed to take a chance, I love it.

Actually they're trading 3 first rounders and a second. One of them a top 6 pick...

True, but they are getting one back. 3-1 = 2. They do have a 1st rounder this year. They don't in 2013 and 2014.

No, they are getting RGIII back <or> a first round pick... They aren't getting RGII and a first rounder... In return for RGIII, they trade 3 first rounders and a second.. Or in return for a first round pick they trade 3 first rounders and a second..

The cost for the player they want is THREE first rounders and a second rounder..

Damn that is a crap load of high picks to give up.

 

[fatness]

The chance that RGIII as the #2 pick will help the team significantly more than the #6 pick they would have had, and the three other picks they gave up, is way lower than 50%.

You're saying that those 4 picks had a higher likelihood of landing a franchise QB? I'm going to take issue with that.At 1.06 and 2.06 this year, who had a better chance of being a franchise QB?Who are the franchise QB's that would fall to the Redskins in the 2013 and 2014 drafts? Some "guy who's projected to be a can't miss in the pros"? What makes you believe guessing at some future guy's projected NFL ability is better than the ability NFL teams think Robert Griffin has right now?

 

[fatness]

The cost for the player they want is THREE first rounders and a second rounder..

Then why did the Rams only gain 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder?

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

The chance that RGIII as the #2 pick will help the team significantly more than the #6 pick they would have had, and the three other picks they gave up, is way lower than 50%.

You're saying that those 4 picks had a higher likelihood of landing a franchise QB? I'm going to take issue with that.At 1.06 and 2.06 this year, who had a better chance of being a franchise QB?

Who are the franchise QB's that would fall to the Redskins in the 2013 and 2014 drafts? Some "guy who's projected to be a can't miss in the pros"? What makes you believe guessing at some future guy's projected NFL ability is better than the ability NFL teams think Robert Griffin has right now?

This doesn't exist and it hurts more when you calculate in the lack of talent RGIII won't have around him due to the current makeup of the team + the loss of draft picks + whenever they do gets picks they need years to develop as well.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Yes, but with the rookie wage scale, the top 5-10 picks are worth more. It used to be that it was hard to sell picks in the top 10 because no one wanted to commit big $$ to rookies. Now that they do not have to, I think you'll see that top 5 picks will go for a lot more than they have in the past. Many of the NFL insiders are also saying that Cleveland stepped up their offer, so obviously the Redskins outbid them and did what they had to do to get the deal done.

Redskins are giving up a top 6 pick in the deal.. So if the bolded potion of your statement is correct, the trade looks even worse..

Last I checked #2 is worth more than #6. Picks 2 and 6 both fall in the top 10. So while the 6 is worth more, the 2nd is worth that much more. Especially in a draft like this where there are two elite QB's. At 6 you are looking at Two years ago, the Rams would never have gotten this deal. If you really think otherwise, perhaps you're a bit naive. Bottom line is that it costs more to move up now than it did at the time for the deals you referenced.

You said the top 5-10 picks are worth more, not just the top 2...You contradicting yourself now?

What point are you arguing against anyways? My original point was and still is that the Redskins paid too much.. And less was paid for a 2 time SB winner in 2004.. And a very similar QB in 2001 for which you go on later to say the falcons probably regret that deal..

Do you think the Giants and Giants fans would do that trade again? Do you think they would do it again if they had to throw in another 1st rounder? Basically that would have ended up meaning that they give up Mathias Kiwanuka. Still a good deal for the Giants? I think so. As I said above, it was a high price, but if RG3 is a pro bowl QB, you cannot put a price tag on that and this will be a great deal for the Redskins.

With the guarantee of 2 Super Bowls I'd say yes the Giants would do it again.. And probably would consider a 3rd first rounder.

RGIII doesn't guarantee 2 SB.. And even if the Giants would have thrown in a 3rd first rounder.. The Redskins are still paying more because as you've said, top5-10 picks are worth more now..

Better question, would the falcons give an additional 1st rounder for Vick, knowing what they know now... Better yet, would they have done the original deal knowing what they know now?

The Giants would consider throwing in the 3rd first rounder in hindsight? Good to know.RG3 doesn't guarantee the Skins 2 Super Bowls? I thought everything in the draft was a sure thing, so great posting here.

Vick based on the fact that he ended up having serious character issues wasn't worth the trade up. I could be way off, but I'm willing to bet anything that if RG3 struggles it is not because of character issues as with Vick. Also RG3 is a much better pocket passer than Vick when he came out. Obviously RG3 is not not the caliber runner Vick is/was, but he was terrifically accurate as a college QB.

First 2 line here read to me that you're just a tool..

Last paragraph there reads to me that you believe RGIII is similar to Micheal Vick in potential.. I'd agree with that... What are his odds of being a Micheal Vick? Probably around a 50/50 shot.. What are his odds of being a Peyton Manning, Eli, Brady, Brees, Rodgers..? Maybe 10%... Vick is not an elite franchise QB, The other QB's I've named are.. RGIII doesn't quite measure right in that category.. Redskins paid too much..

 

[Stitch]

Lots of "my team's not getting RG3 so now he sucks and I'm mad!" in here.

 

[coolnerd]

Football is about winning, and you must have a good team to win. Look at Cam Newton last season- do you expect RGIII to put up numbers remotely approaching his? And exactly what did Newton's stats do for the Panthers? They still had an awful year. And remember, the Panthers have WAY more offensive talent than the Redskins do, even if they sign VJax.

It's hilarious the way so many fans think a QB can singlehandedly turn an awful team (like the Redskins) around. Yes, the Colts last season proved that perhaps Peyton Manning is in a class of his own in this regard, but even there I think you have to factor in how bad their backup QBs were and the fact a lot of those key offensive players got old at the same time.

The 49ers came within a couple of fumbles of making the Super Bowl last year, with the much maligned "bust" Alex Smith at QB. Is Joe Flacco a "bust?" Mark Sanchez has been ordinary at best, but has done some nice things in the playoffs. Is he a "franchise" QB? Yes, the passing game now demands a solid QB, but if the top QBs were all that mattered, then either Brees or Rodgers would have been in the Super Bowl.

All QBs get way too much blame and way too much credit.

I think you are proving the point, you are trying to refute. All of those "solid" guys were overdrafted players. Alex Smith was not the best player in his draft. He was a bright, spread offense QB, who had one dynamic year at largley disregarded school who went number 1 overall. Sanchez had one year starting experience and the Jets went to get him. Flacco was a 1-AA (whatever they call it these days) QB who the Ravens traded up to get. Teams did this just to get QBs who graded out at just over average as a probrable career. The ways to get an average or above QB in this league

1) Be awful enough to be at the top of the draft.

2) Get lucky that a late round/un dradfted guy develops mostly out of nowhere.

3) Pay a large dollar free agent contract to a guy with little real game in, game out experience.

4) Trade multiple picks to get at point 1 or 3

5) Have a moderate draft pick spend multiple years behind a starter and develop.

In short getting even a JAG QB in the NFL requires some combination of agressivenss, luck, timing, and forethought. Mostly teams are going to overpay in some manner.

Most QB's take time to develop, regardless of where they were drafted. You left on 6) Take a chance on an injured FA Pro Bowl QB (Brees).

The difference in 1 and 5 is that really high picks rarely sit these days. Okay, on the Brees, since he and Culpepper hit the market injured and we another injured QB on the market now.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The cost for the player they want is THREE first rounders and a second rounder..

Then why did the Rams only gain 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder?

What did RGIII cost them?.... 3 first rounders, plus a second rounder... Do you disagree?Rams had RGII (or the necessary pick), Redskins wanted him.. What did they give up to get him?.. 4 picks total..

 

[Buck Stop]

Lots of "my team's not getting RG3 so now he sucks and I'm mad!" in here.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Haters of the trade... look at it this way.There's a 50% (30%, 70% - whatever you think the number should be) that the Redskins just made their team much better for the next decade. And if they miss the consequence is that they'll be as bad for the next five years as they have the last 20.

The chance that RGIII as the #2 pick will help the team significantly more than the #6 pick they would have had, and the three other picks they gave up, is way lower than 50%. 50% is maybe the probability that RGIII is as at least as good as first-round pick Rex Grossman. If we say the three other first rounders have a 40% chance of being reasonable players (that RGIII is more likely to be reasonable than they are), and the second rounder has a 20% chance, the Redskins just gave up an 80+% chance of getting a reasonable player in exchange for a 50% chance of getting a reasonable player. And they gave up any chance of getting more than one. The downside is that they've reduced their opportunities for success. Either RGIII works out, or he doesn't. If he does, maybe they can get by without a first-round pick for a couple of years. If he doesn't, they're hosed for years.

This is my post from the Browns thread, but how much can RGIII help an offense/bust rate.I did a little research regarding QB's and offensive point differentials from before drafted to after. I limited it to top 10 draft picks and non-first overall picks(at least to start) because that's what RGIII would represent.***I think we need to keep in mind that franchises have a pick that low because they had a historically bad season*(poor play, lack of talent, injuries, coaching changes, etc) which leads them to a very high pick***-I will include the year before they were drafted again for comparison and I will round these numbers.2000 NFL Draft#2 Overall Donovan McNabb1999: Doug Peterson starting 272 points2000: 351 = +5 PPG2001: 343 = +4 PPG2002: 415 = +9 PPG2003: 374 = +6 PPG2004: 386 = +7 PPG2005: 310 = +2 PPG#3 Overall Akili Smith1999: Jeff Blake starting 283 points2000: 185 = -6 PPG2002 NFL Draft#3 Overall Joey Harrington2001: Charlie Batch Starting 270 points2002: 306 = +2 PPG2003: 270 = even2004: 296 = +2 PPG2003 NFL Draft#7 Overall Byron Leftwich2002: 328 points2003: 276 = -3 PPG2004: 261 = -4 PPG2005: 361 = +2 PPG2004 NFL Draft#4 Overall Phillip Rivers2005: Drew Brees starting 418 points2006: 492 = +5 PPG2007: 412 = about even2008: 439 = +1 PPG2009: 454 = +2 PPG2010: 441 = +1 PPG2011: 406 = -1 PPG2006 NFL Draft#3 Overall Vince Young2005: Steve McNair starting 299 points2006: 324 = +2 PPG2007: 301 = about even#10 Overall Matt Leinart2005: Kurt Warner starting 311 points2006: 314 = about even2007: with Warner starting again 404 points2008 NFL Draft#3 Overall Matt Ryan2007: Joey Harrington starting(with the 1/2 season as Bobby Petrino as HC) 259 points2008: 391 = +8 PPG2009: 363 = +7 PPG2010: 414 = +10 PPG2011: 402 = +9 PPG2009 NFL Draft#5 Mark Sanchez2008: Brett Favre starting 405 points2009: 348 = -4 PPG2010: 367 = -2 PPG2011: 377 = -2 PPG

 

[pantherclub]

The chance that RGIII as the #2 pick will help the team significantly more than the #6 pick they would have had, and the three other picks they gave up, is way lower than 50%.

You're saying that those 4 picks had a higher likelihood of landing a franchise QB? I'm going to take issue with that.At 1.06 and 2.06 this year, who had a better chance of being a franchise QB?

Who are the franchise QB's that would fall to the Redskins in the 2013 and 2014 drafts? Some "guy who's projected to be a can't miss in the pros"? What makes you believe guessing at some future guy's projected NFL ability is better than the ability NFL teams think Robert Griffin has right now?

This doesn't exist and it hurts more when you calculate in the lack of talent RGIII won't have around him due to the current makeup of the team + the loss of draft picks + whenever they do gets picks they need years to develop as well.

Thats why I said it would be close to a decade before they could recover if RG3 is a bust or just average.

 

[Buck Stop]

no doubt it will hurt if RG3 is a bust. No one can deny that. But how many people REALLY believe he'll bust? GMs and scouts are RAVING about him. He's shockingly intelligent and well spoken. Good character, very driven, and loves playing the game. I just don't see how he'll fail. Most of the big busts, Leaf, Russell, etc. had some major flags. I don't see any with this kid. And I would say that even if he wasn't going to DC.

 

[pantherclub]

no doubt it will hurt if RG3 is a bust. No one can deny that. But how many people REALLY believe he'll bust? GMs and scouts are RAVING about him. He's shockingly intelligent and well spoken. Good character, very driven, and loves playing the game. I just don't see how he'll fail. Most of the big busts, Leaf, Russell, etc. had some major flags. I don't see any with this kid. And I would say that even if he wasn't going to DC.

I dont think anyone is outright saying he is going to bust, just that the Skins have done him no favors in trying to surround him with talent. He is going to need a line (something the current skins dont have) and wr's. (Something they dont have)

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

The colts roster is absolutely devoid of talent. What "young" talent are you referring to? The colts might actually be worse in 2012.

But they are gutting it of overpriced/over the hill vets that aren't going to help Luck when he develops(2-3 years from now). Addai/Dallas Clark/Reggie Wayne aren't helping, I'd throw in Jeff Saturday/Dwight Freeney. So by getting rid of them, they will allow roster spots for younger players to develop chemistry with Andrew Luck.

So "building the correct way with young talent" means "having empty roster spots"?

It means having younger guys that will stay with this QB for years.The Colts have 5 picks in the first two rounds the next 3 years to surround Luck. The Skins have 2. Plus from all of the talk, the Skins will surround him with UFA(such as Vjax) that won't be around for 5+ years.

 

[southeastjerome]

People who think this is a bad trade for the Redskins are missing the point. You can argue that you think RG3 will be great or you think he will suck. The fact of the matter is the Redskins are in dire need for a franchise QB. This team was desperate for a QB last year, but traded out from the chance of drafting Gabbert. So obviously they hold RG3 in high regard. Here were there other options at QB:

1.) Stay put, draft Tannehill and then sign Orton. This would leave the skins in mediocrity next year and beyond that Tannehill has a much higher bust risk than RG3 in most expert's opinions. Sinking 3-4 more years into QB's that they are not sure is the answer is the wrong way to approach things.

2.) Stay put, sign Orton and draft a Brandon Weeden type. Second tier QB's have been a risky proposition at best in recent years. Again, they'd be in a position of hoping that the QB situation works out.

3.) Go balls out to sign Manning. Great QB, but the Skins need to get young, they aren't going to win the Super Bowl this year and Manning's window is pretty small. Also the team would be assuming a larger financial risk and would need to sink all their eggs into signing other big names to surround Manning. The Skins have been down this path before and it has not worked.

4.) Go balls out to sign Flynn. This was probably the next best option for them. Still, Flynn does carry some risk and would also bring a larger financial burden. They were never associated with Flynn and he doesn't seem to be a good fit for what they want to do.

Ultimately, if RG3 is a pro bowl caliber QB, this is a good trade for Washington. If he is not a good QB, it is a bad trade. It is impossible to judge it now, but as a Skins fan I love it. Sure, it sucks not having the 2 first rounders and the 2nd rounder, but if RG3 turns out to be what the Redskins and most NFL experts think he can be, it will be well worth it. The option of taking a QB that you like but don't love like a Blaine Gabbert and toiling in the bottom half of the league for the next half a decade or more is not all that appealing to me and most other Skins fans. At least RG3 gives them a chance to be great again. What is the worst that can happen? They finish dead last in the NFC East the last 4 years? Bottom line, this team needed to take a chance, I love it.

Actually they're trading 3 first rounders and a second. One of them a top 6 pick...

True, but they are getting one back. 3-1 = 2. They do have a 1st rounder this year. They don't in 2013 and 2014.

No, they are getting RGIII back <or> a first round pick... They aren't getting RGII and a first rounder... In return for RGIII, they trade 3 first rounders and a second.. Or in return for a first round pick they trade 3 first rounders and a second..

The cost for the player they want is THREE first rounders and a second rounder..

Let me try to explain this for you another way. I said it is going to stink not having the 2 first rounders in 2013 and 2014. Also going to stink not having the 2nd this year. They have a 1st rounder this year.

 

[daveR]

The cost for the player they want is THREE first rounders and a second rounder..

Then why did the Rams only gain 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder?

What did RGIII cost them?.... 3 first rounders, plus a second rounder... Do you disagree?Rams had RGII (or the necessary pick), Redskins wanted him.. What did they give up to get him?.. 4 picks total..

This is silly. The cost to move up (net cost) is 2-1s and a 2. The cost for RG3 is the same plus using the pick, (or the 4 players they would otherwise draft).

 

[southeastjerome]

Yes, but with the rookie wage scale, the top 5-10 picks are worth more. It used to be that it was hard to sell picks in the top 10 because no one wanted to commit big $$ to rookies. Now that they do not have to, I think you'll see that top 5 picks will go for a lot more than they have in the past. Many of the NFL insiders are also saying that Cleveland stepped up their offer, so obviously the Redskins outbid them and did what they had to do to get the deal done.

Redskins are giving up a top 6 pick in the deal.. So if the bolded potion of your statement is correct, the trade looks even worse..

Last I checked #2 is worth more than #6. Picks 2 and 6 both fall in the top 10. So while the 6 is worth more, the 2nd is worth that much more. Especially in a draft like this where there are two elite QB's. At 6 you are looking at Two years ago, the Rams would never have gotten this deal. If you really think otherwise, perhaps you're a bit naive. Bottom line is that it costs more to move up now than it did at the time for the deals you referenced.

You said the top 5-10 picks are worth more, not just the top 2...You contradicting yourself now?

What point are you arguing against anyways? My original point was and still is that the Redskins paid too much.. And less was paid for a 2 time SB winner in 2004.. And a very similar QB in 2001 for which you go on later to say the falcons probably regret that deal..

The top 5 to 10 picks includes picks 1-10. So yes, the top 10 picks are worth more. Since 2 picks before 6, it is worth a lot more than 6. The conventional "trade value chart" can be thrown out the window due to the fact that you can take the best prospects in the draft and not have to sign them to massive guaranteed money. The point I am making is that the cost now to trade up is going to be more because top picks aren't going to be paid as much. In the past, few were willing to deal up because of the cost associated with the contract. You're missing the point that the Redskins will not have to give a rookie a cap crippling contract like other teams had in the past. Thus the higher the pick, the more the value. I honestly thought this was pretty common knowledge.

Of course this varies from year to year depending on who is available. In this draft, the common view among the scouting community based on what I've read is that there are two elite prospects at the most important position in pro football. Obviously the Redskins subscribe to this method of thinking. Hence why the Redskins had to give up more to move up to #2. If RG3 had stayed in school, do you think that the Rams would have gotten this bounty? If Matt Barkley had entered the draft there would be 3 elite prospects and we'd be discussing the Vikings potentially moving down to the highest bidder.

First 2 line here read to me that you're just a tool..

Last paragraph there reads to me that you believe RGIII is similar to Micheal Vick in potential.. I'd agree with that... What are his odds of being a Micheal Vick? Probably around a 50/50 shot.. What are his odds of being a Peyton Manning, Eli, Brady, Brees, Rodgers..? Maybe 10%... Vick is not an elite franchise QB, The other QB's I've named are.. RGIII doesn't quite measure right in that category.. Redskins paid too much..

Seems like you are always angry and bickering with someone on here, so I'm cool with that. It's like dealing with my brother's kids.I think RG3 is more of a safer pick than Vick was. No personality issues, better pocket passer with high accuracy. If you believe RG3 will not be a pro bowl caliber QB, then you're right, they paid too much. Do I think he can be a top 5 QB in the league? Absolutely. Many think he has a good chance to be a franchise QB. If that is the case, it is a great deal. Only time will tell. Bottom line though is this team has been bad for a while and has been toiling around with below average to bad QB's for a while, they needed to take a chance. Based on what we know now, I like it. As I mentioned before, I'd rather this than have to draft this year or next year's Blaine Gabbert and sign mediocre free agents like Kyle Orton. That I do know is a way to guarantee this team will go nowhere for a while. So, I'm cool with taking the chance.

 

[Bankerguy]

I cant believe we are arguing whether it's 2 or 3.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I cant believe we are arguing whether it's 2 or 3.

They're spending three (one of which they'd have spent in any event). They're trading two.

 

[flc735]

what if washington send that offer to indy before they let go of peyton, would they have accepted and resigned him?

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Re-watched the first ten passes of RGIII from the Alamo Bowl.

-accurate on most passes

-he didn't step into one throw

-only took one dropback(a couple of steps, not a quick 3)

-only looked like one pass came off of his initial read(then checked down)

Lots of things he needs to work on. Great arm and accurate is a good place to start.

 

[SacramentoBob]

This is a lot more than the Giants gave up to get Manning.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

no doubt it will hurt if RG3 is a bust. No one can deny that. But how many people REALLY believe he'll bust? GMs and scouts are RAVING about him. He's shockingly intelligent and well spoken. Good character, very driven, and loves playing the game. I just don't see how he'll fail. Most of the big busts, Leaf, Russell, etc. had some major flags. I don't see any with this kid. And I would say that even if he wasn't going to DC.

I'm not saying he'll bust.. I'm saying he's not good enough to warrant the trade bounty..Never in the history of the NFL has a team traded as much for the rights to draft a QB, much less the second QB taken in the draft..RGIII wouldn't just have to 'Not Bust'.. He'd have to achieve top tier QB status.. Not impossible, but odds are against him..I like RGIII, I just think the Redskins paid too much..

 

[duaneok66]

Re-watched the first ten passes of RGIII from the Alamo Bowl.-accurate on most passes-he didn't step into one throw-only took one dropback(a couple of steps, not a quick 3)-only looked like one pass came off of his initial read(then checked down)Lots of things he needs to work on. Great arm and accurate is a good place to start.

i watched that game twice and that sounds about right. The offense dictated most of that though. Alot of the passes were of the very short variety. Can't wait to see what he does at the next level.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

People who think this is a bad trade for the Redskins are missing the point. You can argue that you think RG3 will be great or you think he will suck. The fact of the matter is the Redskins are in dire need for a franchise QB. This team was desperate for a QB last year, but traded out from the chance of drafting Gabbert. So obviously they hold RG3 in high regard. Here were there other options at QB:

1.) Stay put, draft Tannehill and then sign Orton. This would leave the skins in mediocrity next year and beyond that Tannehill has a much higher bust risk than RG3 in most expert's opinions. Sinking 3-4 more years into QB's that they are not sure is the answer is the wrong way to approach things.

2.) Stay put, sign Orton and draft a Brandon Weeden type. Second tier QB's have been a risky proposition at best in recent years. Again, they'd be in a position of hoping that the QB situation works out.

3.) Go balls out to sign Manning. Great QB, but the Skins need to get young, they aren't going to win the Super Bowl this year and Manning's window is pretty small. Also the team would be assuming a larger financial risk and would need to sink all their eggs into signing other big names to surround Manning. The Skins have been down this path before and it has not worked.

4.) Go balls out to sign Flynn. This was probably the next best option for them. Still, Flynn does carry some risk and would also bring a larger financial burden. They were never associated with Flynn and he doesn't seem to be a good fit for what they want to do.

Ultimately, if RG3 is a pro bowl caliber QB, this is a good trade for Washington. If he is not a good QB, it is a bad trade. It is impossible to judge it now, but as a Skins fan I love it. Sure, it sucks not having the 2 first rounders and the 2nd rounder, but if RG3 turns out to be what the Redskins and most NFL experts think he can be, it will be well worth it. The option of taking a QB that you like but don't love like a Blaine Gabbert and toiling in the bottom half of the league for the next half a decade or more is not all that appealing to me and most other Skins fans. At least RG3 gives them a chance to be great again. What is the worst that can happen? They finish dead last in the NFC East the last 4 years? Bottom line, this team needed to take a chance, I love it.

Actually they're trading 3 first rounders and a second. One of them a top 6 pick...

True, but they are getting one back. 3-1 = 2. They do have a 1st rounder this year. They don't in 2013 and 2014.

No, they are getting RGIII back <or> a first round pick... They aren't getting RGII and a first rounder... In return for RGIII, they trade 3 first rounders and a second.. Or in return for a first round pick they trade 3 first rounders and a second..

The cost for the player they want is THREE first rounders and a second rounder..

Let me try to explain this for you another way. I said it is going to stink not having the 2 first rounders in 2013 and 2014. Also going to stink not having the 2nd this year. They have a 1st rounder this year.

Point is, they're paying 4 picks to get RGIII.. Too much, and more than any team has ever paid to draft a QB..

 

[CalBear]

The chance that RGIII as the #2 pick will help the team significantly more than the #6 pick they would have had, and the three other picks they gave up, is way lower than 50%.

You're saying that those 4 picks had a higher likelihood of landing a franchise QB? I'm going to take issue with that.

No, I'm saying that RGIII has a very low likelihood of helping the team more than those 4 picks would have.

At 1.06 and 2.06 this year, who had a better chance of being a franchise QB?Who are the franchise QB's that would fall to the Redskins in the 2013 and 2014 drafts? Some "guy who's projected to be a can't miss in the pros"? What makes you believe guessing at some future guy's projected NFL ability is better than the ability NFL teams think Robert Griffin has right now?

The idea of the "franchise QB" existing before the draft based on draft hype is largely mythical. Is Mark Sanchez a franchise QB? Brady Quinn? Vince Young? Matt Leinart? The likelihood that RGIII will be a true franchise QB (meaning, a great player who stays with the team for 10+ years) is extremely low. 20% at best, probably more like 10%. Maybe he has another 30% chance of being a serviceable starter; Rex Grossman. I'm going to go back to the Manning draft and look at first-round QBs. [Note: This is a multiple endpoints problem. I'm not cherry picking here, quite the opposite; before Manning in 1999, you have to go all the way back to Aikman in 1989 to find a franchise QB selected in the first round]. I'm going to leave out the last two years because it's too early to tell with guys like Bradford, Tebow, and even Newton.Franchise playerseyton Manning (Franchise)Drew Brees (Franchise--for a different team)Eli Manning (Franchise)Phillip Rivers (Franchise*)Ben Roethlisberger (Franchise)Aaron Rodgers (Franchise)Matt Stafford (Franchise*)Serviceable startersonovan McNabb (Servicable starter)Daunte Culpepper (Serviceable starter)Chad Pennington (Serviceable starter)Michael Vick (Serviceable starter)Carson Palmer (Serviceable starter)Byron Leftwich (Serviceable starter)Rex Grossman (Serviceable starter)Alex Smith (Serviceable starter)Jason Campbell (Serviceable starter)Jay Cutler (Serviceable starter)Joe Flacco (Serviceable starter)Mark Sanchez (Serviceable starter*)Josh Freeman (Serviceable starter*)Busts:Ryan Leaf (Massive bust)Tim Couch (Bust)Akili Smith (Bust)Cade McNown (Bust)David Carr (Bust)Joey Harrington (Bust)Patrick Ramsey (Bust)Kyle Boller (Bust)Vince Young (Bust)Matt Leinart (Bust)Jamarcus Russell (Bust)(*) Final outcome TBD. Giving Stafford the benefit of the doubt. Sanchez and Freeman have more to prove.So 7 franchise QBs, one of whom is on a different team (technically also true of Eli/Rivers, but I'll let that slide). 13 serviceable starters. 11 busts. So let's call the baseline 6 of 31; 19% chance that the first-round QB you draft will become a franchise QB for your franchise. Maybe RGIII is slightly higher than that, but he's certainly not a lot higher than that.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The cost for the player they want is THREE first rounders and a second rounder..

Then why did the Rams only gain 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder?

What did RGIII cost them?.... 3 first rounders, plus a second rounder... Do you disagree?Rams had RGII (or the necessary pick), Redskins wanted him.. What did they give up to get him?.. 4 picks total..

This is silly. The cost to move up (net cost) is 2-1s and a 2. The cost for RG3 is the same plus using the pick, (or the 4 players they would otherwise draft).

Exactly>>RGIII cost them 4 players.. or 4 picks.. not just 3..

They will be turning 3 first round picks, and a second rounder into RGIII.. (4 picks is what he'll cost them) More then any rookie QB in the history of the NFL regardless of draft position.. And RGIII won't even be the first QB drafted...

 

[SacramentoBob]

Best move for the Skins now is to rape the Browns in a trade, sign Flynn and use then use the #4 to draft Blackmon.

 

[cstu]

I think RG3 is more of a safer pick than Vick was. No personality issues, better pocket passer with high accuracy. If you believe RG3 will not be a pro bowl caliber QB, then you're right, they paid too much. Do I think he can be a top 5 QB in the league? Absolutely. Many think he has a good chance to be a franchise QB. If that is the case, it is a great deal. Only time will tell. Bottom line though is this team has been bad for a while and has been toiling around with below average to bad QB's for a while, they needed to take a chance. Based on what we know now, I like it. As I mentioned before, I'd rather this than have to draft this year or next year's Blaine Gabbert and sign mediocre free agents like Kyle Orton. That I do know is a way to guarantee this team will go nowhere for a while. So, I'm cool with taking the chance.

The 'personality issue' wasn't an issue since no one knew he was into killing dogs at the time. RG3 is a much better passer but despite his speed he's not a pure runner like Vick (who was practically a RB). My view on Vick when he was drafted was that it would be difficult for him to be a bust since he created very difficult match up problems for defenses even if he wasn't a very good passer.I don't have a problem with what the Redskins gave up since they have the money to make up for the lost picks. However, I think people should be realistic about his development and realize it will probably take a few years for him to learn to be a pro-style QB.

 

[pantherclub]

A point that nobody is making is that the Vikings have to be on suicide watch. They had the #2 locked and loaded until they went into DC last year late and won. Very costly to win that game.

 

[cstu]

A point that nobody is making is that the Vikings have to be on suicide watch. They had the #2 locked and loaded until they went into DC last year late and won. Very costly to win that game.

Nah, they are still getting the #1 LT at their top need position.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The top 5 to 10 picks includes picks 1-10. So yes, the top 10 picks are worth more. Since 2 picks before 6, it is worth a lot more than 6. The conventional "trade value chart" can be thrown out the window due to the fact that you can take the best prospects in the draft and not have to sign them to massive guaranteed money. The point I am making is that the cost now to trade up is going to be more because top picks aren't going to be paid as much. In the past, few were willing to deal up because of the cost associated with the contract. You're missing the point that the Redskins will not have to give a rookie a cap crippling contract like other teams had in the past. Thus the higher the pick, the more the value. I honestly thought this was pretty common knowledge.

For Eli, the giants traded up from the 4 to the 1... Redskins trade from the 6 to the 2.. I'd say that is very comparable regardless of the timeline.. It's not like the Chargers were trading into some sweet spot financially.. Rivers was still a top 4 pick.. Kinda takes the punch out of your rookie contracts argument..

First 2 line here read to me that you're just a tool..Last paragraph there reads to me that you believe RGIII is similar to Micheal Vick in potential.. I'd agree with that... What are his odds of being a Micheal Vick? Probably around a 50/50 shot.. What are his odds of being a Peyton Manning, Eli, Brady, Brees, Rodgers..? Maybe 10%... Vick is not an elite franchise QB, The other QB's I've named are.. RGIII doesn't quite measure right in that category.. Redskins paid too much..

Seems like you are always angry and bickering with someone on here, so I'm cool with that. It's like dealing with my brother's kids.I think RG3 is more of a safer pick than Vick was. No personality issues, better pocket passer with high accuracy. If you believe RG3 will not be a pro bowl caliber QB, then you're right, they paid too much. Do I think he can be a top 5 QB in the league? Absolutely. Many think he has a good chance to be a franchise QB. If that is the case, it is a great deal. Only time will tell. Bottom line though is this team has been bad for a while and has been toiling around with below average to bad QB's for a while, they needed to take a chance. Based on what we know now, I like it. As I mentioned before, I'd rather this than have to draft this year or next year's Blaine Gabbert and sign mediocre free agents like Kyle Orton. That I do know is a way to guarantee this team will go nowhere for a while. So, I'm cool with taking the chance.

Falcons didn't know Vick would end up fighting dogs.. That didn't effect the price they paid...And Gabbert/Orton aren't the only alternative to betting the house on RGIII

 

[smackdaddies]

Let's see, keep farting along with QBs like Rex and Beck and finish in the basement of the NFC East along with their first round picks, OR, get one of the best QB athletes and prospects to come along in a while, and use FA to grab your other needs since your owner has more money than God. I'll take option 2 all day long Alex!

What about signing Matt Flynn for free and using the draft picks to fill the 100 holes on that team?Guarantee RGIII will flop with little talent around him for oh I dunno 3 damn years!

The only reason this isn't a terrible trade for the Redskins is that they can buy whatever they want. The picks are practically irrelevant to them.

The picks are irrelevant? What are you smoking, dude?

its the DeadSkins that are irrelevant. At least so long as D.S. is calling the shots.

 

[Pipes]

Let's see, keep farting along with QBs like Rex and Beck and finish in the basement of the NFC East along with their first round picks, OR, get one of the best QB athletes and prospects to come along in a while, and use FA to grab your other needs since your owner has more money than God. I'll take option 2 all day long Alex!

What about signing Matt Flynn for free and using the draft picks to fill the 100 holes on that team?Guarantee RGIII will flop with little talent around him for oh I dunno 3 damn years!

The only reason this isn't a terrible trade for the Redskins is that they can buy whatever they want. The picks are practically irrelevant to them.

The picks are irrelevant? What are you smoking, dude?

its the DeadSkins that are irrelevant. At least so long as D.S. is calling the shots.

I agree the Redskins are irrelevant and have been for most of the past 20 years. That's why this is a great trade for them. Yeah it's a lot but adding RGIII creates a buzz around this team that hasn't been there really since the early 90's. If they truly believe RGIII is the real deal then this was a shot worth taking. Much easier to fill in the talent around a top notch QB than trying to find a top notch QB. It's amazing how many people feel so strongly one way or another on this deal when it will be a couple of years before we can see if the Redskins overpaid or not.

 

[southeastjerome]

The top 5 to 10 picks includes picks 1-10. So yes, the top 10 picks are worth more. Since 2 picks before 6, it is worth a lot more than 6. The conventional "trade value chart" can be thrown out the window due to the fact that you can take the best prospects in the draft and not have to sign them to massive guaranteed money. The point I am making is that the cost now to trade up is going to be more because top picks aren't going to be paid as much. In the past, few were willing to deal up because of the cost associated with the contract. You're missing the point that the Redskins will not have to give a rookie a cap crippling contract like other teams had in the past. Thus the higher the pick, the more the value. I honestly thought this was pretty common knowledge.

For Eli, the giants traded up from the 4 to the 1... Redskins trade from the 6 to the 2.. I'd say that is very comparable regardless of the timeline..It's not like the Chargers were trading into some sweet spot financially.. Rivers was still a top 4 pick.. Kinda takes the punch out of your rookie contracts argument..

I don't really think it is an argument. Its pretty much common knowledge that top picks are worth more now that there is a rookie wage scale. The higher the pick, the more it is worth. Of course this varies per draft depending on team needs and the caliber of players available. What hasn't been mentioned is that there really was not really a bidding war for Manning. Manning said he would not play for SD and wanted to play in NY. No one else was really bidding. This time around at least the Browns were, so obviously that drives up the cost. Also, this was a deeper draft at QB, so there were more options for them than there are for the Skins now. If Barkley entered the draft and the Skins were picking at 4 like the Giants were that year, then I think the cost ultimately would have been a little different.

Falcons didn't know Vick would end up fighting dogs.. That didn't effect the price they paid...And Gabbert/Orton aren't the only alternative to betting the house on RGIII

Of course not, no need to state the obvious, I get it. I'm not saying it was a factor at all. I just said RG3 really doesn't have any personality or character concerns In fact, it is a strength of his. I think RG3 is a better pro prospect than Vick was at the time. True they aren't the only alternative, but what else was there? Flynn? He's no world beater. Hope they get the #1 pick next year to get Barkley? Draft Tannehill who has a much higher bust risk and lower ceiling than RG3? Take another middling prospect like Weeden or Cousins? If the team believes in the guy, it is worth it.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I don't really think it is an argument. Its pretty much common knowledge that top picks are worth more now that there is a rookie wage scale. The higher the pick, the more it is worth. Of course this varies per draft depending on team needs and the caliber of players available.

Worth more than what? The pick you're moving down to shows the difference in value.. Avoiding moving into a top 5 pick to avoid a high rookie salary only works if you aren't already holding a top 5 pick.. Manning who cost a #1 overall pick was traded for Rivers who cost a #4 overall pick..Truth of the matter is, usually teams let the negotiation build up till the draft, but in this case, no one was going to offer more than this ridiculous offer so the Rams had to jump on it.. "hurry up and sign, before the fools realize what they just offered"First round picks as a whole are worth more now because of rookie wage scale as well.. Skins just traded away 3 of those bad boys, including a top 6 pick... Ouch!!

 

[Stitch]

I don't really think it is an argument. Its pretty much common knowledge that top picks are worth more now that there is a rookie wage scale. The higher the pick, the more it is worth. Of course this varies per draft depending on team needs and the caliber of players available.

Worth more than what? The pick you're moving down to shows the difference in value.. Avoiding moving into a top 5 pick to avoid a high rookie salary only works if you aren't already holding a top 5 pick.. Manning who cost a #1 overall pick was traded for Rivers who cost a #4 overall pick..Truth of the matter is, usually teams let the negotiation build up till the draft, but in this case, no one was going to offer more than this ridiculous offer so the Rams had to jump on it.. "hurry up and sign, before the fools realize what they just offered"First round picks as a whole are worth more now because of rookie wage scale as well.. Skins just traded away 3 of those bad boys, including a top 6 pick... Ouch!!

You gonna be ok? Seems like this trade has really gotten to you. You been able to eat or sleep this weekend? Try stepping away from your computer and getting some fresh air. It's nice out!

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I don't really think it is an argument. Its pretty much common knowledge that top picks are worth more now that there is a rookie wage scale. The higher the pick, the more it is worth. Of course this varies per draft depending on team needs and the caliber of players available.

Worth more than what? The pick you're moving down to shows the difference in value.. Avoiding moving into a top 5 pick to avoid a high rookie salary only works if you aren't already holding a top 5 pick.. Manning who cost a #1 overall pick was traded for Rivers who cost a #4 overall pick..Truth of the matter is, usually teams let the negotiation build up till the draft, but in this case, no one was going to offer more than this ridiculous offer so the Rams had to jump on it.. "hurry up and sign, before the fools realize what they just offered"First round picks as a whole are worth more now because of rookie wage scale as well.. Skins just traded away 3 of those bad boys, including a top 6 pick... Ouch!!

You gonna be ok? Seems like this trade has really gotten to you. You been able to eat or sleep this weekend? Try stepping away from your computer and getting some fresh air. It's nice out!

Let me guess... Redskins fan...

 

[comfortably numb]

fest up in here

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Re-watched the first ten passes of RGIII from the Alamo Bowl.-accurate on most passes-he didn't step into one throw-only took one dropback(a couple of steps, not a quick 3)-only looked like one pass came off of his initial read(then checked down)Lots of things he needs to work on. Great arm and accurate is a good place to start.

i watched that game twice and that sounds about right. The offense dictated most of that though. Alot of the passes were of the very short variety. Can't wait to see what he does at the next level.

I'm not saying he can't get there, because he has the arm/accuracy/athleticism. He could learn the fundamentals(only thing he can't obtain is good size/frame), I just prefer a more polished QB.

 

[southeastjerome]

I don't really think it is an argument. Its pretty much common knowledge that top picks are worth more now that there is a rookie wage scale. The higher the pick, the more it is worth. Of course this varies per draft depending on team needs and the caliber of players available.

Worth more than what? The pick you're moving down to shows the difference in value.. Avoiding moving into a top 5 pick to avoid a high rookie salary only works if you aren't already holding a top 5 pick.. Manning who cost a #1 overall pick was traded for Rivers who cost a #4 overall pick..Truth of the matter is, usually teams let the negotiation build up till the draft, but in this case, no one was going to offer more than this ridiculous offer so the Rams had to jump on it.. "hurry up and sign, before the fools realize what they just offered"First round picks as a whole are worth more now because of rookie wage scale as well.. Skins just traded away 3 of those bad boys, including a top 6 pick... Ouch!!

Worth more than in year's past. I know it is relative to all picks. But as I mentioned twice before, value of the top picks is often relative to the draft. Obviously the first two picks are worth more to QB needy teams this year than they were last year. There are two elite grade QB's in this draft. So while it is true that the player drafted 6 slots to an even lower salary, he also isn't what the Redskins scouts believe is a franchise QB. Thus the cost to move up. Its not as if they were plush with options for franchise QB's (which is what they need). Getting Ryan Kerrigan's and Brian Orakpo level players is nice, but they aren't going anywhere without a top level QB. As for how the negotiations went down, we don't know that. But Schefter is saying that the Browns really stepped up their efforts for the trade, so it sounds like the time was now to do the deal. I'll be honest, I'd be hugely disappointed if the Browns did this deal and the skins were going to have to sit at 6.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I don't really think it is an argument. Its pretty much common knowledge that top picks are worth more now that there is a rookie wage scale. The higher the pick, the more it is worth. Of course this varies per draft depending on team needs and the caliber of players available.

Worth more than what? The pick you're moving down to shows the difference in value.. Avoiding moving into a top 5 pick to avoid a high rookie salary only works if you aren't already holding a top 5 pick.. Manning who cost a #1 overall pick was traded for Rivers who cost a #4 overall pick..Truth of the matter is, usually teams let the negotiation build up till the draft, but in this case, no one was going to offer more than this ridiculous offer so the Rams had to jump on it.. "hurry up and sign, before the fools realize what they just offered"First round picks as a whole are worth more now because of rookie wage scale as well.. Skins just traded away 3 of those bad boys, including a top 6 pick... Ouch!!

Worth more than in year's past. I know it is relative to all picks. But as I mentioned twice before, value of the top picks is often relative to the draft. Obviously the first two picks are worth more to QB needy teams this year than they were last year. There are two elite grade QB's in this draft. So while it is true that the player drafted 6 slots to an even lower salary, he also isn't what the Redskins scouts believe is a franchise QB. Thus the cost to move up. Its not as if they were plush with options for franchise QB's (which is what they need). Getting Ryan Kerrigan's and Brian Orakpo level players is nice, but they aren't going anywhere without a top level QB. As for how the negotiations went down, we don't know that. But Schefter is saying that the Browns really stepped up their efforts for the trade, so it sounds like the time was now to do the deal. I'll be honest, I'd be hugely disappointed if the Browns did this deal and the skins were going to have to sit at 6.

I know you're a Skins fan, and I do see how you could be excited.. Nice to finally have a highly touted QB high draft prospect.. I just can't see paying so much..

 

[southeastjerome]

I don't really think it is an argument. Its pretty much common knowledge that top picks are worth more now that there is a rookie wage scale. The higher the pick, the more it is worth. Of course this varies per draft depending on team needs and the caliber of players available.

Worth more than what? The pick you're moving down to shows the difference in value.. Avoiding moving into a top 5 pick to avoid a high rookie salary only works if you aren't already holding a top 5 pick.. Manning who cost a #1 overall pick was traded for Rivers who cost a #4 overall pick..Truth of the matter is, usually teams let the negotiation build up till the draft, but in this case, no one was going to offer more than this ridiculous offer so the Rams had to jump on it.. "hurry up and sign, before the fools realize what they just offered"First round picks as a whole are worth more now because of rookie wage scale as well.. Skins just traded away 3 of those bad boys, including a top 6 pick... Ouch!!

Worth more than in year's past. I know it is relative to all picks. But as I mentioned twice before, value of the top picks is often relative to the draft. Obviously the first two picks are worth more to QB needy teams this year than they were last year. There are two elite grade QB's in this draft. So while it is true that the player drafted 6 slots to an even lower salary, he also isn't what the Redskins scouts believe is a franchise QB. Thus the cost to move up. Its not as if they were plush with options for franchise QB's (which is what they need). Getting Ryan Kerrigan's and Brian Orakpo level players is nice, but they aren't going anywhere without a top level QB. As for how the negotiations went down, we don't know that. But Schefter is saying that the Browns really stepped up their efforts for the trade, so it sounds like the time was now to do the deal. I'll be honest, I'd be hugely disappointed if the Browns did this deal and the skins were going to have to sit at 6.

I know you're a Skins fan, and I do see how you could be excited.. Nice to finally have a highly touted QB high draft prospect.. I just can't see paying so much..

Time will tell. If he brings stability and is a high level QB for them for the next decade, it will be worth it. If not, it won't be. Pretty simple.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I don't really think it is an argument. Its pretty much common knowledge that top picks are worth more now that there is a rookie wage scale. The higher the pick, the more it is worth. Of course this varies per draft depending on team needs and the caliber of players available.

Worth more than what? The pick you're moving down to shows the difference in value.. Avoiding moving into a top 5 pick to avoid a high rookie salary only works if you aren't already holding a top 5 pick.. Manning who cost a #1 overall pick was traded for Rivers who cost a #4 overall pick..Truth of the matter is, usually teams let the negotiation build up till the draft, but in this case, no one was going to offer more than this ridiculous offer so the Rams had to jump on it.. "hurry up and sign, before the fools realize what they just offered"First round picks as a whole are worth more now because of rookie wage scale as well.. Skins just traded away 3 of those bad boys, including a top 6 pick... Ouch!!

Worth more than in year's past. I know it is relative to all picks. But as I mentioned twice before, value of the top picks is often relative to the draft. Obviously the first two picks are worth more to QB needy teams this year than they were last year. There are two elite grade QB's in this draft. So while it is true that the player drafted 6 slots to an even lower salary, he also isn't what the Redskins scouts believe is a franchise QB. Thus the cost to move up. Its not as if they were plush with options for franchise QB's (which is what they need). Getting Ryan Kerrigan's and Brian Orakpo level players is nice, but they aren't going anywhere without a top level QB. As for how the negotiations went down, we don't know that. But Schefter is saying that the Browns really stepped up their efforts for the trade, so it sounds like the time was now to do the deal. I'll be honest, I'd be hugely disappointed if the Browns did this deal and the skins were going to have to sit at 6.

I know you're a Skins fan, and I do see how you could be excited.. Nice to finally have a highly touted QB high draft prospect.. I just can't see paying so much..

Time will tell. If he brings stability and is a high level QB for them for the next decade, it will be worth it. If not, it won't be. Pretty simple.

Define high level? I'm curious of the expectations from Redskin fans.

 

[SacramentoBob]

I don't really think it is an argument. Its pretty much common knowledge that top picks are worth more now that there is a rookie wage scale. The higher the pick, the more it is worth. Of course this varies per draft depending on team needs and the caliber of players available.

Worth more than what? The pick you're moving down to shows the difference in value.. Avoiding moving into a top 5 pick to avoid a high rookie salary only works if you aren't already holding a top 5 pick.. Manning who cost a #1 overall pick was traded for Rivers who cost a #4 overall pick..Truth of the matter is, usually teams let the negotiation build up till the draft, but in this case, no one was going to offer more than this ridiculous offer so the Rams had to jump on it.. "hurry up and sign, before the fools realize what they just offered"First round picks as a whole are worth more now because of rookie wage scale as well.. Skins just traded away 3 of those bad boys, including a top 6 pick... Ouch!!

Worth more than in year's past. I know it is relative to all picks. But as I mentioned twice before, value of the top picks is often relative to the draft. Obviously the first two picks are worth more to QB needy teams this year than they were last year. There are two elite grade QB's in this draft. So while it is true that the player drafted 6 slots to an even lower salary, he also isn't what the Redskins scouts believe is a franchise QB. Thus the cost to move up. Its not as if they were plush with options for franchise QB's (which is what they need). Getting Ryan Kerrigan's and Brian Orakpo level players is nice, but they aren't going anywhere without a top level QB. As for how the negotiations went down, we don't know that. But Schefter is saying that the Browns really stepped up their efforts for the trade, so it sounds like the time was now to do the deal. I'll be honest, I'd be hugely disappointed if the Browns did this deal and the skins were going to have to sit at 6.

I know you're a Skins fan, and I do see how you could be excited.. Nice to finally have a highly touted QB high draft prospect.. I just can't see paying so much..

Time will tell. If he brings stability and is a high level QB for them for the next decade, it will be worth it. If not, it won't be. Pretty simple.

Define high level? I'm curious of the expectations from Redskin fans.

Something between what Cam Newton and Andy Dalton did this past year with steady improvements each after for the next 4-5 years.

 

[fatness]

The cost for the player they want is THREE first rounders and a second rounder..

Then why did the Rams only gain 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder?

What did RGIII cost them?.... 3 first rounders, plus a second rounder... Do you disagree?Rams had RGII (or the necessary pick), Redskins wanted him.. What did they give up to get him?.. 4 picks total..

They gave up 4 picks and got 1 pick. 4-1=3[QUOTE='Barbie Doll]math is hard
[/QUOTE]

 

[fatness]

I'll be honest, I'd be hugely disappointed if the Browns did this deal and the skins were going to have to sit at 6.

Same here. But I guess some folks think the Browns made out better than the Redskins.