Ryan Mathews....no respect?....get on this hype train (1 Viewer)

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Many in here seem to debating about Jahvid Best's size, or CJ Spiller's transition to the NFL, or Dwyer not playing in a Pro style offense....nobody is talking about Ryan Mathews.

Ryan Mathews is the complete package:

5'11 220

College stats(in 31 games):

3,280 rushing yards, over a 6 yard average, 39 TDs

Mathews has a great RB build....meaning he has a good lower center of gravity.

He is quick, has speed, breaks tackles, doesn't fumble, and has good vision.

He also added 15 pounds onto his frame from his soph year to his junior year to help with injuries and the workload.

He is the #1 RB in this class and about time people start putting him on the map.

Possible negatives:

-Level of competition

-19 career receptions....although he looks good catching the football

-Injuries(minor knee injury soph year he missed some games and concussion made him miss one his junior year)

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Mayock has him 2nd in his top 5 RB's, right behind Spiller. That's some respect.

 

[treat88]

Many in here seem to debating about Jahvid Best's size, or CJ Spiller's transition to the NFL, or Dwyer not playing in a Pro style offense....nobody is talking about Ryan Mathews.

Ryan Mathews is the complete package:

5'11 220

College stats(in 31 games):

3,280 rushing yards, over a 6 yard average, 39 TDs

Mathews has a great RB build....meaning he has a good lower center of gravity.

He is quick, has speed, breaks tackles, doesn't fumble, and has good vision.

He also added 15 pounds onto his frame from his soph year to his junior year to help with injuries and the workload.

He is the #1 RB in this class and about time people start putting him on the map.

Possible negatives:

-Level of competition

-19 career receptions....although he looks good catching the football

-Injuries(minor knee injury soph year he missed some games and concussion made him miss one his junior year)

He's a good all-around back, but lacks any special qualities.I think he could be very productive in a 2 down role for a pure ZBS team. Houston or Seattle come to mind as good fits as both run ZBS schemes with good complimentary backs in place.

I have trouble considering Spiller a true RB, so it's reasonable to consider him as the #1 back in this class. That said I think it's a very weak class from a FF standpoint.

Matt Forte minus the third down work is the comp that comes to mind.

 

[lyon812]

He has size, speed, power, vision, burst, and is a good receiver and blocker. He runs hard. He separates. He attacks defenders.

All of these suggest a 3-down back.

When playing against top teams, he ran for 100 yards against Wisconsin and Illinois, and put up 234 yards on 19 carries against Boise State.

His biggest problem will be durability.

 

[Wu-banger]

Mathews could be the best back out of the bunch , the only problem is that he is not getting the hype due to not having a WOW skill ... Spiller= speed , Dwyer =Power , Best = elusivness ...

people tend to look overlook a solid back like him... till he producing 1400 yard 10td seasons.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Mayock has him 2nd in his top 5 RB's, right behind Spiller. That's some respect.

Well thats a start...in here nobody talks about him.

 

[BigTex]

Mayock has him 2nd in his top 5 RB's, right behind Spiller. That's some respect.

Well thats a start...in here nobody talks about him.

He has been talked about. Look in the 2010 thread but he's second fiddle to Spiller and Best because they have the tangibles he don't......world class track speed that actually translate on the football field.Think of it like this, if Hey Bey could actually catch and run routes then the Al Davis 1st round pick makes perfect sense.

 

[lyon812]

Mayock has him 2nd in his top 5 RB's, right behind Spiller. That's some respect.

Well thats a start...in here nobody talks about him.

Has has been talked about. Look in the 2010 thread but he's second fiddle to Spiller and Best because they have the tangibles he don't......world class track speed that actually translate on the football field.

Except Mathews is a complete package, while Spiller and Best aren't.

 

[massraider]

Love this kid.

 

[BigTex]

Mayock has him 2nd in his top 5 RB's, right behind Spiller. That's some respect.

Well thats a start...in here nobody talks about him.

Has has been talked about. Look in the 2010 thread but he's second fiddle to Spiller and Best because they have the tangibles he don't......world class track speed that actually translate on the football field.

Except Mathews is a complete package, while Spiller and Best aren't.

I guess you'd have to define complete package because Spiller's numbers>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mathew's numbers in every category.To each his own, everyone has his/her own points of view.

 

[treat88]

Mayock has him 2nd in his top 5 RB's, right behind Spiller. That's some respect.

Well thats a start...in here nobody talks about him.

Has has been talked about. Look in the 2010 thread but he's second fiddle to Spiller and Best because they have the tangibles he don't......world class track speed that actually translate on the football field.

Except Mathews is a complete package, while Spiller and Best aren't.

I agree he is a more complete player with far more potential to become a 20 touch RB than those two.However, he is not a rare talent.Spiller is. Best....maybe. They will both remind scouts and GM's of Percy Harvin.What is a valid comp for Mathews? Forte? Donald Brown? Ryan Grant? Chauncey Washington?Matthews will have to prove himself before he gets 3rd down work routinely. Blocking and receiving skills are still unknowns.

 

[jurb26]

Mathews is the best RB in this draft IMO. I'm not sure how much that is saying however. I'm not blown away with any of the other guys.

 

[jbz]

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...=517654&hl=

He got some love in there (by me too )

Pass blocking needs work.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Mayock has him 2nd in his top 5 RB's, right behind Spiller. That's some respect.

Well thats a start...in here nobody talks about him.

Has has been talked about. Look in the 2010 thread but he's second fiddle to Spiller and Best because they have the tangibles he don't......world class track speed that actually translate on the football field.

Except Mathews is a complete package, while Spiller and Best aren't.

I guess you'd have to define complete package because Spiller's numbers>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mathew's numbers in every category.To each his own, everyone has his/her own points of view.

Rushing yards seasonSpiller:1212 ave 5.6 12tdMathews:1808 ave 6.6 19tdWhat categories are you talking? 40 yard dash with nobody in his path....b/c thats all I see.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Mayock has him 2nd in his top 5 RB's, right behind Spiller. That's some respect.

Well thats a start...in here nobody talks about him.

Has has been talked about. Look in the 2010 thread but he's second fiddle to Spiller and Best because they have the tangibles he don't......world class track speed that actually translate on the football field.Think of it like this, if Hey Bey could actually catch and run routes then the Al Davis 1st round pick makes perfect sense.

World Class speed means nothing with defenders in the way....minimal ability to break tackles....and trouble staying healthy......plus Spiller has been a lot of hype.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

People have been talking about Mathews since mid-September (page 5) in this thread

 

[BigTex]

BigTex

He has been talked about. Look in the 2010 thread but he's second fiddle to Spiller and Best because they have the tangibles he don't......world class track speed that actually translate on the football field.

benson_will_lead_the_way'

Except Mathews is a complete package, while Spiller and Best aren't.

BigTex

I guess you'd have to define complete package because Spiller's numbers>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mathew's numbers in every category.

To each his own, everyone has his/her own points of view.

benson_will_lead_the_way'

Rushing yards season

Spiller:1212 ave 5.6 12td

Mathews:1808 ave 6.6 19td

What categories are you talking? 40 yard dash with nobody in his path....b/c thats all I see.

Unless rushing is the only catergory which defines a "complete back" you accidentally left out a few more:Spiller: 36 rec/503 yds/ 14.0 avg /4 TDs

Mathews: 11 rec/122 yds/11.1 avg/0TDs

Spiller: Kick Returns 4 TDs

Mathews: Kick Returns 0 TDs

Spiller: Passed for 1 TDs

Mathews: Passed for 0 TDs

Spiller: Punt Returns for 1 TD

Mathews: Punt Returns for 0 TDs

Now Keep in mind ACC>>>>>>>>>>>>>WAC

Every Single Ranking has Spiller #1, Mathews is in th 4-6 range with the exception of one and he's ranked #2 behind Spiller.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2010RB.php

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospec...ngs/TSX/2010_RB

http://nooffseason.com/draft.html

http://www.nfldraftdog.com/2010-nfl-draft/...k-rankings.html

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/prospects/rb.html

http://www.draftcountdown.com/Rankings/RB.php

http://www.kffl.com/article.php/110395/161

http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&amp...rc=4&pid=11

http://www.fantasyfootballjungle.com/y/nfl...nning-backs.php

C.J. set the FBS record for kickoff return touchdowns with seven during his career. He also earned his spot in the record books in another way on that kickoff return, by being only one of five players to ever gain 7000 all-purpose yards.

Spiller was the nation's only player this season to account for touchdowns five different ways; rushing, passing, receiving, and on kick and punt returns; and had passing, rushing and receiving TDs in one game.

Spiller was ranked third in the country in all-purpose yards (196.5 a game)

Spiller was the only player in the FBS to score a touchdown in every game in the 2009 season.

Looks like a complete back to me and I didn't mention his track numbers or the awards he's won because my fingers are too tired

:twocents:

Tex

 

[lyon812]

Looks like a complete back to me and I didn't mention his track numbers or the awards he's won because my fingers are too tired

He's exciting and dynamic, sure. And he likely has a higher ceiling (as well as a higher bust risk). But by complete, I mean Mathews has:--bellcow ability

--prototypical size

--strong burst

--high playing speed

--excellent agility

--solid blocker

--elite vision

--unquestioned ability to run inside and outside

Meanwhile, Spiller has to endure questions about his inside running, size, and ability to handle a high workload. Thus, while he's certainly awesome, he has more question marks. Is he CJ3 or Faulk? Or Reggie Bush?

Some excellent reports on both:

http://www.newerascouting.com/01/ryan-matt...couting-report/

http://www.newerascouting.com/01/c-j-spill...couting-report/

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

Looks like a complete back to me and I didn't mention his track numbers or the awards he's won because my fingers are too tired

He's exciting and dynamic, sure. And he likely has a higher ceiling (as well as a higher bust risk). But by complete, I mean Mathews has:--bellcow ability

--prototypical size

--strong burst

--high playing speed

--excellent agility

--solid blocker

--elite vision

--unquestioned ability to run inside and outside

Meanwhile, Spiller has to endure questions about his inside running, size, and ability to handle a high workload. Thus, while he's certainly awesome, he has more question marks. Is he CJ3 or Faulk? Or Reggie Bush?

Some excellent reports on both:

http://www.newerascouting.com/01/ryan-matt...couting-report/

http://www.newerascouting.com/01/c-j-spill...couting-report/

I agree with this. Spiller definetly has the higher upside, but much more risk in my opinion. I feel with Mathews you know more of what you are getting. I guess to me it would depend on roster composition. If I had some other good options at RB already, I would probably go Spiller. If I wanted a safer bet to produce, I think I would take Mathews. A lot will depend on what teams they land on though.

 

[BigTex]

Looks like a complete back to me and I didn't mention his track numbers and the awards he's won because my fingers are too tired

He's exciting and dynamic, sure. And he likely has a higher ceiling (as well as a higher bust risk). But by complete, I mean Mathews has:--bellcow ability

--prototypical size

--strong burst

--high playing speed

--excellent agility

--solid blocker

--elite vision

--unquestioned ability to run inside and outside

Meanwhile, Spiller has to endure questions about his inside running, size, and ability to handle a high workload. Thus, while he's certainly awesome, he has more question marks. Is he CJ3 or Faulk? Or Reggie Bush?

Some excellent reports on both:

http://www.newerascouting.com/01/ryan-matt...couting-report/

http://www.newerascouting.com/01/c-j-spill...couting-report/

I'll address the "enduring questions"

Inside Runner

I've watch more TVR'd (not really a word but it's what i did) games on Spiller and this is far from the truth. The ONLY place I've personally read/heard question this part of his game is this board. I'll encourage you to look at his game a little closer. That line from Clemson was not a strong line, there are numerous of time in which CJ will run into a gap/hole and it's just not there so he'll bounce to the outside. I call it "VISION", others call it "question" about his inside running abilities. LOL! OK

His Size

He's 5'11/195, 5'11 is the perfect height, 195 lbs he admits he needs to put on a few pounds but that's so overrated its not worth spending time on. Hell he can eat a Double Quarter Pounder with Cheeses Supervised and pain 10lbs.

Workload

If Spiller's workload is in question and he ranks #3 in the country with nearly 200 all-purpose yards a game, then every back coming out should be questioned as well.

By the way, I never said Mathews was a horrible back and you won't find one thread in which I said that. You can count me as one who likes Mathews or Matthews however his name is spelled. But we just have difference of opinion on this. I have not seen one ranking having Mathews ranked higher than Spiller, not one. I have an opportunity to get Mathews or Dwyer and I'm trying to make a decision because I like both but I have questions concerning both.

Tex

 

[zed2283]

I'll admit I use the highlight videos to do my "scouting" and I love what I see here. Add in his size and he looks like a great prospect. I wonder if I can get him at #6...?

 

[awesomeness]

He's easily the safest pick in this year's draft at the RB position. I have little doubt this guy is going to be a stud, he's already in my top 10 dynasty RB's, though that could change if he ends up in a bad spot. But if he ends up on a mediocre or good team he'll stay in my top 10.

I see a lot of bust potential in CJ Spiller from a FF perspective. I like Jahvid Best's skill set a lot and think he can be a FF stud, but i'm worried about his size and injuries. I admit to knowing little of Dwyer, he looks good but lack of burst is cause for concern.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

BigTex

He has been talked about. Look in the 2010 thread but he's second fiddle to Spiller and Best because they have the tangibles he don't......world class track speed that actually translate on the football field.

benson_will_lead_the_way'

Except Mathews is a complete package, while Spiller and Best aren't.

BigTex

I guess you'd have to define complete package because Spiller's numbers>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mathew's numbers in every category.

To each his own, everyone has his/her own points of view.

benson_will_lead_the_way'

Rushing yards season

Spiller:1212 ave 5.6 12td

Mathews:1808 ave 6.6 19td

What categories are you talking? 40 yard dash with nobody in his path....b/c thats all I see.

Unless rushing is the only catergory which defines a "complete back" you accidentally left out a few more:Spiller: 36 rec/503 yds/ 14.0 avg /4 TDs

Mathews: 11 rec/122 yds/11.1 avg/0TDs

Spiller: Kick Returns 4 TDs

Mathews: Kick Returns 0 TDs

Spiller: Passed for 1 TDs

Mathews: Passed for 0 TDs

Spiller: Punt Returns for 1 TD

Mathews: Punt Returns for 0 TDs

Now Keep in mind ACC>>>>>>>>>>>>>WAC

Every Single Ranking has Spiller #1, Mathews is in th 4-6 range with the exception of one and he's ranked #2 behind Spiller.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2010RB.php

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospec...ngs/TSX/2010_RB

http://nooffseason.com/draft.html

http://www.nfldraftdog.com/2010-nfl-draft/...k-rankings.html

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/prospects/rb.html

http://www.draftcountdown.com/Rankings/RB.php

http://www.kffl.com/article.php/110395/161

http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&...rc=4&pid=11

http://www.fantasyfootballjungle.com/y/nfl...nning-backs.php

C.J. set the FBS record for kickoff return touchdowns with seven during his career. He also earned his spot in the record books in another way on that kickoff return, by being only one of five players to ever gain 7000 all-purpose yards.

Spiller was the nation's only player this season to account for touchdowns five different ways; rushing, passing, receiving, and on kick and punt returns; and had passing, rushing and receiving TDs in one game.

Spiller was ranked third in the country in all-purpose yards (196.5 a game)

Spiller was the only player in the FBS to score a touchdown in every game in the 2009 season.

Looks like a complete back to me and I didn't mention his track numbers or the awards he's won because my fingers are too tired

:twocents:

Tex

I appreciate a thoughtout post....but I never said the first quote you have me down as....which is your arguement...but I will play along.Career Td's:

Spiller- 52( 32 rushing, 11 rec, 7 returning, 2 passing)

Mathews- 41( 39 rushing, 2 rec)

Games Played:

Spiller- 52

Mathews- 31

So having Spiller means a TD per game....running, recieving, throwing, passing, and returning.

Having Mathews means 1.3 TD's per game.....running and recieving.

-About returning....Mathews never had the opportunity...so who is to say. But i'm not drafting a RB in the first round of a FF draft or an NFL draft because he can return a kick well. I'm drafting him to run, catch, and block.

Career Rushing numbers:

Spiller by year:

FR-129 for 938 7.3 10

SO-145 for 768 5.3 3

JR-116 for 629 5.4 7

SR-216 for 1212 5.6 12

Mathews by year:

FR-145 for 866 6.0 14

SO-113 for 606 5.4 6

JR-276 for 1808 6.6 19

Career rushing:

Spiller- 606 for 3,547 5.85 32td

Mathews- 534 for 3,280 6.14 39td

I will give you that Spiller has caught more passes, but where is the beat Mathews in every category?

Speed isn't everything

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Looks like a complete back to me and I didn't mention his track numbers and the awards he's won because my fingers are too tired

He's exciting and dynamic, sure. And he likely has a higher ceiling (as well as a higher bust risk). But by complete, I mean Mathews has:--bellcow ability

--prototypical size

--strong burst

--high playing speed

--excellent agility

--solid blocker

--elite vision

--unquestioned ability to run inside and outside

Meanwhile, Spiller has to endure questions about his inside running, size, and ability to handle a high workload. Thus, while he's certainly awesome, he has more question marks. Is he CJ3 or Faulk? Or Reggie Bush?

Some excellent reports on both:

http://www.newerascouting.com/01/ryan-matt...couting-report/

http://www.newerascouting.com/01/c-j-spill...couting-report/

I'll address the "enduring questions"

Inside Runner

I've watch more TVR'd (not really a word but it's what i did) games on Spiller and this is far from the truth. The ONLY place I've personally read/heard question this part of his game is this board. I'll encourage you to look at his game a little closer. That line from Clemson was not a strong line, there are numerous of time in which CJ will run into a gap/hole and it's just not there so he'll bounce to the outside. I call it "VISION", others call it "question" about his inside running abilities. LOL! OK

I admit Clemson doesn't have a great oline, but bouncing outside in college is waaay different than the NFL(ask Reggie Bush).

His Size

He's 5'11/195, 5'11 is the perfect height, 195 lbs he admits he needs to put on a few pounds but that's so overrated its not worth spending time on. Hell he can eat a Double Quarter Pounder with Cheeses Supervised and pain 10lbs.

at 195 he needs more than a few pounds...more like 15. At that added weight, will he still have that speed though? If it was so easy to add weight i'm sure Todd Pinkston would've a long time ago. Some guys can, some can't.

Workload

If Spiller's workload is in question and he ranks #3 in the country with nearly 200 all-purpose yards a game, then every back coming out should be questioned as well.

All-purpose means nothing when discussing a RB. Lets talk about touches rushing and recieving.

By the way, I never said Mathews was a horrible back and you won't find one thread in which I said that. You can count me as one who likes Mathews or Matthews however his name is spelled. But we just have difference of opinion on this. I have not seen one ranking having Mathews ranked higher than Spiller, not one. I have an opportunity to get Mathews or Dwyer and I'm trying to make a decision because I like both but I have questions concerning both.

I think all four of the top backs have good speed(different from last year), but what team they end up on will be huge.

Tex

 

[EBF]

He's getting plenty of hype. Good back with a nice combination of size, speed, and burst. I think he can be a starter at the next level. The NFL comparison I came up with is Ryan Grant. Negatives are that he's had some durability issues and he's a little bit stiff in the hips. I expect him to test very well at the combine and possibly sneak into the late first round of the NFL draft.

 

[BigTex]

benson_will_lead_the_wayI appreciate a thoughtout post....but I never said the first quote you have me down as....which is your arguement...but I will play along.Career Td's:Spiller- 52( 32 rushing, 11 rec, 7 returning, 2 passing)Mathews- 41( 39 rushing, 2 rec)Games Played:Spiller- 52Mathews- 31So having Spiller means a TD per game....running, recieving, throwing, passing, and returning.Having Mathews means 1.3 TD's per game.....running and recieving.-About returning....Mathews never had the opportunity...so who is to say. But i'm not drafting a RB in the first round of a FF draft or an NFL draft because he can return a kick well. I'm drafting him to run, catch, and block.Career Rushing numbers:Spiller by year:FR-129 for 938 7.3 10SO-145 for 768 5.3 3JR-116 for 629 5.4 7SR-216 for 1212 5.6 12Mathews by year:FR-145 for 866 6.0 14SO-113 for 606 5.4 6JR-276 for 1808 6.6 19Career rushing:Spiller- 606 for 3,547 5.85 32tdMathews- 534 for 3,280 6.14 39tdI will give you that Spiller has caught more passes, but where is the beat Mathews in every category?Oh and i'm sure those draft sites loved McFadden over all the other RB's from his class too Speed isn't everything

benson_will_lead_the_way, if some of the quotes were not you then I apologize, when I tried to reply to the post it wouldn't let me because it said that there were too many quotes..........Argh!! So I chopped it up and tried to keep it clean and easy to follow but the hydrocodine kicked in, lol.If you can't see the numbers I've posted then you don't want to and I'm fine with that. I don't believe in taking numbers away from a player (punt, kicker off), I believe it ALL counts because it shows the diversity and athleticism of that player. It was great for Harvin and it's good for Gilyard (who was #2 in all-purpose yards by the way) but let's take it away from CJ4 No Speed isn't everything and I never said it did, only that in his case his track speed translate very well on the field and that's rare. As for as Mathew not having opportunities to proves himself well it's probably because he can't. If you have the skill set to perform a certain task and due it well any smart coach will put you in that position to be successful. Again, some were saying he may not be able carry the load, he played in the ACC and avg 200 all-purpose yds a game. I'm fairly certain that's carrying the load.Again, some question his size WOW, really. He's 5'11 that's normal, 195 pounds and he still young and he'll grow even more that's not a problem. He's Jr. yr he weighed 184lbs, he gained 11lbs before his senior year and looking at his 60 and 100 meter numbers he only got faster.Again, some say he's not an inside runner, this has already been explained, he has great field of vision. He doesn't run in the gap with his head down because he's looking for open lanes to run through and many twist this and change it to a negative. LOL, Ok!Making assumptions about another running back who is still young and in a Hell hole has absolutely nothing to do with CJ4. Hey I liked the debate it was good a clean. You've made your points, I've made mine and neither is going to change his stance.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

Again, some were saying he may not be able carry the load, he played in the ACC and avg 200 all-purpose yds a game. I'm fairly certain that's carrying the load.

So, have all of these guys carried the load in the NFL, because they were the only 6 guys with over 2300 all purpose yards?Fred Jackson (RB, BUF) 2,516Joshua Cribbs (WR, CLE) 2,510Chris Johnson (RB, TEN) 2,509Jamaal Charles (RB, KC) 2,342Darren Sproles (RB, SD) 2,323Danny Amendola (WR, STL) 2,302

You've made your points, I've made mine and neither is going to change his stance.

What's the point in having a discussion if no one is willing to change their stance?

 

[footballfreek]

Both Spiller and Mathews are excellent prospects. They just get the job done differently.

 

[BigTex]

Again, some were saying he may not be able carry the load, he played in the ACC and avg 200 all-purpose yds a game. I'm fairly certain that's carrying the load.

So, have all of these guys carried the load in the NFL, because they were the only 6 guys with over 2300 all purpose yards?Fred Jackson (RB, BUF) 2,516Joshua Cribbs (WR, CLE) 2,510Chris Johnson (RB, TEN) 2,509Jamaal Charles (RB, KC) 2,342Darren Sproles (RB, SD) 2,323Danny Amendola (WR, STL) 2,302

You've made your points, I've made mine and neither is going to change his stance.

What's the point in having a discussion if no one is willing to change their stance?

We're talking about college not NFL and it sounds like the same point I'm making. I'm really not sure what you read out of my post but again you making my exact point. I'm not sure what else Spiller has to do to be considered by a small few to prove he has to "carry the load" lol. He's #3 in the country at "carrying to load" with 200 all purpose yds a game and the ONLY player to score a touch down in EVERY game this year.Because these points may help someone else who has not made a decision on which rb to draft. I have my mind made up on Spiller and others have their mind made up about Mathews.I'm not saying Mathews is bad but his highlights are filled with some of worst run defenses in all of college: Hawaii, New Mexico St., and Cincy whom were #117, #107, and #61 against the run. Some games were out of hand and Fresno St was getting blown away (garbage time stats) so they just fed Matthews the ball while the other team had their 3rd string in. (I really don't know about the 3rd string but when you're up by 30+pts I'm sure the scrubs are playing).I don't care really who people draft that's on them, it amazes me that He is electrifying as they come with no injury issues (see Best), he can pass, block, catch, placed on kick return, punts and can score anytime he touch the ball. Yet people come up with "questions" about this or that, it's just funny to me. Wow, the eyes don't lie, it's the brain which gets caught-up in nonsense that cause one to make the wrong decision in Fantasy Football.Tex

 

[BeTheMatch]

No injury issues for Spiller? Is that what you said, Tex?

 

[BigTex]

No injury issues for Spiller? Is that what you said, Tex?

Who had the a recent injury that ended his college career Best or Spiller?

 

[BeTheMatch]

No injury issues for Spiller? Is that what you said, Tex?

Who had the a recent injury that ended his college career Best or Spiller?

Well, that wasn't my question, and that wasn't your comment. You said Spiller has had no injury issues. I don't think that's an accurate assessment. Has Best had a more severe one more recently, sure, but that doesn't mean that Spiller has had no injury issues.

 

[BigTex]

No injury issues for Spiller? Is that what you said, Tex?

Who had the a recent injury that ended his college career Best or Spiller?

Well, that wasn't my question, and that wasn't your comment. You said Spiller has had no injury issues. I don't think that's an accurate assessment. Has Best had a more severe one more recently, sure, but that doesn't mean that Spiller has had no injury issues.

My point was simply that if that had been Spiller with an injury that knocked him out of four games which ended his college career it would surely used against him. But you wouldn't hear that from the Best camp.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

I thought that was an impressive highlight reel. I saw a burst, I saw vision, some shiftiness, enough speed, I loved how he took care of the ball always carrying on the proper side and holding with both arms when needed, he's got a good stiff arm which many RB's in the NFL don't use enough imo, and he runs just a little angry.The only noticed that wasn't all that impressive was that he only caught 1 pass in the highlights, it was a screen, and he didn't follow his linemen very well after the catch.

Overall, I really like what I see.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

benson_will_lead_the_way

I appreciate a thoughtout post....but I never said the first quote you have me down as....which is your arguement...but I will play along.

Career Td's:

Spiller- 52( 32 rushing, 11 rec, 7 returning, 2 passing)

Mathews- 41( 39 rushing, 2 rec)

Games Played:

Spiller- 52

Mathews- 31

So having Spiller means a TD per game....running, recieving, throwing, passing, and returning.

Having Mathews means 1.3 TD's per game.....running and recieving.

-About returning....Mathews never had the opportunity...so who is to say. But i'm not drafting a RB in the first round of a FF draft or an NFL draft because he can return a kick well. I'm drafting him to run, catch, and block.

Career Rushing numbers:

Spiller by year:

FR-129 for 938 7.3 10

SO-145 for 768 5.3 3

JR-116 for 629 5.4 7

SR-216 for 1212 5.6 12

Mathews by year:

FR-145 for 866 6.0 14

SO-113 for 606 5.4 6

JR-276 for 1808 6.6 19

Career rushing:

Spiller- 606 for 3,547 5.85 32td

Mathews- 534 for 3,280 6.14 39td

I will give you that Spiller has caught more passes, but where is the beat Mathews in every category?

Oh and i'm sure those draft sites loved McFadden over all the other RB's from his class too

Speed isn't everything

benson_will_lead_the_way, if some of the quotes were not you then I apologize, when I tried to reply to the post it wouldn't let me because it said that there were too many quotes..........Argh!! So I chopped it up and tried to keep it clean and easy to follow but the hydrocodine kicked in, lol.Its all cool, I know FBG's has limitations on here.

If you can't see the numbers I've posted then you don't want to and I'm fine with that. I don't believe in taking numbers away from a player (punt, kicker off), I believe it ALL counts because it shows the diversity and athleticism of that player. It was great for Harvin and it's good for Gilyard (who was #2 in all-purpose yards by the way) but let's take it away from CJ4

So you look at punt/kick returning and throwing stats when breaking down a RB for a draft? B/c I don't....would love to hear why you do? All-purpose yards mean nothing...unless you play in a return yardage league.

No Speed isn't everything and I never said it did, only that in his case his track speed translate very well on the field and that's rare. As for as Mathew not having opportunities to proves himself well it's probably because he can't. If you have the skill set to perform a certain task and due it well any smart coach will put you in that position to be successful.

My point is people fell in love with McFadden b/c of his speed and 40 yard dash time and look at him tear up the SEC....and now nothing. He is one of the worst RB's from the 2008 class. IMO he is very similiar to Spiller.

Again, some were saying he may not be able carry the load, he played in the ACC and avg 200 all-purpose yds a game. I'm fairly certain that's carrying the load.

We disagree here. I feel that returning a punt or kick.....vs having 20 carries a game are completely different.

Again, some question his size WOW, really. He's 5'11 that's normal, 195 pounds and he still young and he'll grow even more that's not a problem. He's Jr. yr he weighed 184lbs, he gained 11lbs before his senior year and looking at his 60 and 100 meter numbers he only got faster.

To continue on that trend would be terrific, however players reach a limit to where size does matter and if affects their ability on the field. If he can add yet another 15 pounds and keep his speed I would be shocked.

Again, some say he's not an inside runner, this has already been explained, he has great field of vision. He doesn't run in the gap with his head down because he's looking for open lanes to run through and many twist this and change it to a negative. LOL, Ok!

What makes Chris Johnson a great RB, is that he doesn't look to bounce everything...he takes that 3 yards if he has to plow into the pile. I don't see that from Spiller.

Making assumptions about another running back who is still young and in a Hell hole has absolutely nothing to do with CJ4.

Assumptions weren't made by you about mathews....see my next post on his numbers.

Hey I liked the debate it was good a clean. You've made your points, I've made mine and neither is going to change his stance.

I'm not sure why nobody will change their stance. We are bringing in arguements and facts to the table. If anything everyone is getting more informed about each player....hence the Shark Pool.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

We're talking about college not NFL and it sounds like the same point I'm making. I'm really not sure what you read out of my post but again you making my exact point. I'm not sure what else Spiller has to do to be considered by a small few to prove he has to "carry the load" lol. He's #3 in the country at "carrying to load" with 200 all purpose yds a game and the ONLY player to score a touch down in EVERY game this year.

B/c Mardy Gilyard has a ton of all purpose yards....does that mean he can carry the load at RB in the NFL? See my point....talk carrys, catches or "touches" and you might make an arguement.

Because these points may help someone else who has not made a decision on which rb to draft. I have my mind made up on Spiller and others have their mind made up about Mathews.

I'm not saying Mathews is bad but his highlights are filled with some of worst run defenses in all of college: Hawaii, New Mexico St., and Cincy whom were #117, #107, and #61 against the run.

Some games were out of hand and Fresno St was getting blown away (garbage time stats) so they just fed Matthews the ball while the other team had their 3rd string in. (I really don't know about the 3rd string but when you're up by 30+pts I'm sure the scrubs are playing).

I don't care really who people draft that's on them, it amazes me that He is electrifying as they come with no injury issues (see Best), he can pass, block, catch, placed on kick return, punts and can score anytime he touch the ball. Yet people come up with "questions" about this or that, it's just funny to me. Wow, the eyes don't lie, it's the brain which gets caught-up in nonsense that cause one to make the wrong decision in Fantasy Football.

Tex

I decided to do some work and break this down(Mathews/Spiller run defenses). Run defense rankings are by rushing yards per game....which I don't think is fair. Say Auburn runs 40 times in a game vs clemson and Alabama runs 2 twice vs clemson....that isn't the same. So I went by yards per carry which should be more accurate despite the carries that took place in a game.I used 100 yard games as a bench mark(seems pretty fair).

I then will list the team they ran it against and the ypc the defense gave up for the year.

Spiller in 2009:

TCU- 2.6

Wake Forest- 4.6

Florida State- 5.4

Georgia Tech- 4.9

Mathews in 2009:

UC- Davis(they are irrevelant b/c they aren't FBS)

@Wisconsin- 2.9

Boise State- 3.8

@Cinci- 3.6

@Hawaii- 4.9

San Jose St- 6.1

@New Mexico St- 5.6

Utah State- 5.3

@Idaho- 4.7

@Illinois- 4.2

Wyoming- 4.4

Judging by yards per carry it seems pretty even to be honest.

Lets look at other games they went over 100 in their career(sorry I couldn't find ypc for all the years)

Spiller in 2008:

None

Mathews in 2008:

@Rutgers- 3.8

@UCLA- 4.4

Spiller in 2007:

@NC State

@ Maryland

Auburn

Mathews in 2007:

@Nevada

San Jose State

Utah State

Spiller in 2006:

Louisiana Tech

@Wake Forest

Georgia Tech

NC State

South Carolina

Mathews in 2006:

He was in High School.

Then you stated that Mathews had "garbage time stats". So lets look at the good opponents and see.

In the bowl game vs Wyoming...in which they lost in overtime....he ran for 144 and 2 tds.

@ Illinois...which they won by 1 point he ran for 173 and 3 tds.

@ Cinci....which they lost by 8 points he ran for 145 and 1 td.

vs Boise State they lost 51-34 he ran for 234 and 3tds. However, he had a 69 yard td run and 60 yard td in the second quarter. As well as a 68 yard td run, down by 14 in the 4th quarter with 13 minutes left in the game....hardly a time for "3rd stringers" or "scrubs".

@ Wisconsin they lost in overtime and he ran for 107.

@ Rutgers they won his sophomore year and he ran for 163 and 3 tds.

@ UCLA they won by 5 and he ran for 166 and 1 td...also caught 1 td.

 

[BigTex]

benson_will_lead_the_way

I appreciate a thoughtout post....but I never said the first quote you have me down as....which is your arguement...but I will play along.

Career Td's:

Spiller- 52( 32 rushing, 11 rec, 7 returning, 2 passing)

Mathews- 41( 39 rushing, 2 rec)

Games Played:

Spiller- 52

Mathews- 31

So having Spiller means a TD per game....running, recieving, throwing, passing, and returning.

Having Mathews means 1.3 TD's per game.....running and recieving.

-About returning....Mathews never had the opportunity...so who is to say. But i'm not drafting a RB in the first round of a FF draft or an NFL draft because he can return a kick well. I'm drafting him to run, catch, and block.

Career Rushing numbers:

Spiller by year:

FR-129 for 938 7.3 10

SO-145 for 768 5.3 3

JR-116 for 629 5.4 7

SR-216 for 1212 5.6 12

Mathews by year:

FR-145 for 866 6.0 14

SO-113 for 606 5.4 6

JR-276 for 1808 6.6 19

Career rushing:

Spiller- 606 for 3,547 5.85 32td

Mathews- 534 for 3,280 6.14 39td

I will give you that Spiller has caught more passes, but where is the beat Mathews in every category?

Oh and i'm sure those draft sites loved McFadden over all the other RB's from his class too

Speed isn't everything

benson_will_lead_the_way, if some of the quotes were not you then I apologize, when I tried to reply to the post it wouldn't let me because it said that there were too many quotes..........Argh!! So I chopped it up and tried to keep it clean and easy to follow but the hydrocodine kicked in, lol.Its all cool, I know FBG's has limitations on here.

Cool

If you can't see the numbers I've posted then you don't want to and I'm fine with that. I don't believe in taking numbers away from a player (punt, kicker off), I believe it ALL counts because it shows the diversity and athleticism of that player. It was great for Harvin and it's good for Gilyard (who was #2 in all-purpose yards by the way) but let's take it away from CJ4

So you look at punt/kick returning and throwing stats when breaking down a RB for a draft? B/c I don't....would love to hear why you do? All-purpose yards mean nothing...unless you play in a return yardage league.

Outside of Best, Spiller does things that I haven't seen from a running back in some time. Things that he has accomplished are written the the record books.

No Speed isn't everything and I never said it did, only that in his case his track speed translate very well on the field and that's rare. As for as Mathew not having opportunities to proves himself well it's probably because he can't. If you have the skill set to perform a certain task and due it well any smart coach will put you in that position to be successful.

My point is people fell in love with McFadden b/c of his speed and 40 yard dash time and look at him tear up the SEC....and now nothing. He is one of the worst RB's from the 2008 class. IMO he is very similiar to Spiller.

I don't see that comparison. Spiller is on record for saying people often compare him to Clinton Portis. On Poster on here whom we all respect and is very vocal when it comes to rookies last year compared him to Chris Johnson but hasn't made that same comparison this year. I personally don't do comparisons because we are talking about two different people, playing with and against different teams.

Again, some were saying he may not be able carry the load, he played in the ACC and avg 200 all-purpose yds a game. I'm fairly certain that's carrying the load.

We disagree here. I feel that returning a punt or kick.....vs having 20 carries a game are completely different.

Again, some question his size WOW, really. He's 5'11 that's normal, 195 pounds and he still young and he'll grow even more that's not a problem. He's Jr. yr he weighed 184lbs, he gained 11lbs before his senior year and looking at his 60 and 100 meter numbers he only got faster.

To continue on that trend would be terrific, however players reach a limit to where size does matter and if affects their ability on the field. If he can add yet another 15 pounds and keep his speed I would be shocked.

IMHO At 5'11 he would be ok, is it not common for running backs in our time and era to gain a few pounds and not diminish their talents?

Again, some say he's not an inside runner, this has already been explained, he has great field of vision. He doesn't run in the gap with his head down because he's looking for open lanes to run through and many twist this and change it to a negative. LOL, Ok!

What makes Chris Johnson a great RB, is that he doesn't look to bounce everything...he takes that 3 yards if he has to plow into the pile. I don't see that from Spiller.

I see this as different styles and habits of play. Matthew has the propensity at times to run to his left (see video below) even when he takes it up the middle.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=11400617

Making assumptions about another running back who is still young and in a Hell hole has absolutely nothing to do with CJ4.

Assumptions weren't made by you about mathews....see my next post on his numbers.

LOL, this was the comparison to McFadden. I given up on him by the way

Hey I liked the debate it was good a clean. You've made your points, I've made mine and neither is going to change his stance.

I'm not sure why anyone will change their stance. We are bringing in arguments and facts to the table. If anything everyone is getting more informed about each player....hence the Shark Pool.

ETA: Will respond to post #37 shortly, LMAO because you did something similar to what I did but I feel asleep. I need to get comfortable and will respond shortly.Tex

 

[footballfreek]

:X This debate is awesome!

 

[BigTex]

We're talking about college not NFL and it sounds like the same point I'm making. I'm really not sure what you read out of my post but again you making my exact point. I'm not sure what else Spiller has to do to be considered by a small few to prove he has to "carry the load" lol. He's #3 in the country at "carrying to load" with 200 all purpose yds a game and the ONLY player to score a touch down in EVERY game this year.

B/c Mardy Gilyard has a ton of all purpose yards....does that mean he can carry the load at RB in the NFL? See my point....talk carrys, catches or "touches" and you might make an arguement.

Not necessarily but Spiller has 606 carries and Matthews has 538 so if there are questions about Spiller then certainly it MUST apply to Matthews because Spiller has 68 more carries, right? Plus I believe the Gilyard light frame is more question than Spiller. Honestly I believe he could be fine at 195lbs.

Because these points may help someone else who has not made a decision on which rb to draft. I have my mind made up on Spiller and others have their mind made up about Mathews.

I'm not saying Mathews is bad but his highlights are filled with some of worst run defenses in all of college: Hawaii, New Mexico St., and Cincy whom were #117, #107, and #61 against the run.

Some games were out of hand and Fresno St was getting blown away (garbage time stats) so they just fed Matthews the ball while the other team had their 3rd string in. (I really don't know about the 3rd string but when you're up by 30+pts I'm sure the scrubs are playing).

I don't care really who people draft that's on them, it amazes me that He is electrifying as they come with no injury issues (see Best), he can pass, block, catch, placed on kick return, punts and can score anytime he touch the ball. Yet people come up with "questions" about this or that, it's just funny to me. Wow, the eyes don't lie, it's the brain which gets caught-up in nonsense that cause one to make the wrong decision in Fantasy Football.

Tex

I decided to do some work and break this down(Mathews/Spiller run defenses). Run defense rankings are by rushing yards per game....which I don't think is fair. Say Auburn runs 40 times in a game vs clemson and Alabama runs 2 twice vs clemson....that isn't the same. So I went by yards per carry which should be more accurate despite the carries that took place in a game.Great job!

This can be easily explained by looking at the pass defense stats. Agreed? Example: If a defense is allowing only 121 yds passing per game yet giving up 300 then we could presume that their run defense suck and teams don't have to pass but run and control the clock.

I used 100 yard games as a bench mark(seems pretty fair).

But this takes away from the real number, no? I'll add actual numbers and see if it holds water

I then will list the team they ran it against and the ypc the defense gave up for the year.

I'll use national ranking because level of competition must be know when analyzing prospects (seems pretty fair)

I add an "r" for run, the next number is what they allowed and "p" for pass, the next number will be what they allowed then I'll show how each of the prospects performed against those numbers.

Spiller in 2009:

TCU

#3r/2.59 (Spiller 4.3) +1.7

#6p/10.97 (Spiller 26.3) +15

Wake Forest

#82r/4.55 (Spiller 11.8) +7.2

#61p/12.5 (Spiller 3.0) -9

Florida State

#108r/5.38 (Spiller 7.5) +2.1

#77p/14.59 (Spiller 22.3) +7.7

Georgia Tech

#68r/4.0 (Spiller 4.4) +.4

#45p/11.92 (Spiller 17.3) +5.4

Spiller did great against the National Ranking

Mathews in 2009:

@Wisconsin

#5r/2.89 (Matt 5.6)

#55p/13.15 (Matt 4.9)

Boise State

#28r/3.83 (Matt 12.3) This was the game that was clearly out of hand

#21p/10.45 (0)

@Cinci

#61r/3.63 (Matt 3.8)

#78p/11.21 (Matt 16.0)

@Hawaii

#107r/4.89 (Matt 6.2)

#35p/12.31 (Matt 0)

San Jose St

#119r/6.13 (11.7)

#22p/12.97 (0)

@New Mexico St

#114r/5.61 (Matt 6.3)

#36p/13.53 (Matt 27.0)

Utah State

#110r/5.29 (Matt 8.0)

#101p/14.0 (Matt 13.0)

@Idaho

#77r/4.72 (Matt 5.5)

#116p/12.38 (Matt 6.0)

@Illinois

#76r/4.23 (Matt 5.4)

#100p/13.04 (0)

Wyoming

#93r/4.39 (Matt 4.6)

#65p/11.17 (Matt (0)

Judging by yards per carry it seems pretty even to be honest.

The level of competition in which Matthew had to face is very weak to say the least.

Actually some of the weakest in the entire country.

Lets look at other games they went over 100 in their career(sorry I couldn't find ypc for all the years)

I currently don't have the national numbers for '07-'08

Spiller in 2008:

None

Mathews in 2008:

@Rutgers- 3.8

@UCLA- 4.4

Spiller in 2007:

@NC State

@ Maryland

Auburn

Mathews in 2007:

@Nevada

San Jose State

Utah State

Spiller in 2006:

Louisiana Tech

@Wake Forest

Georgia Tech

NC State

South Carolina

Mathews in 2006:

He was in High School.

Then you stated that Mathews had "garbage time stats". So lets look at the good opponents and see.

In the bowl game vs Wyoming...in which they lost in overtime....he ran for 144 and 2 tds.

Ranked #93 in the nation against the run

@ Illinois...which they won by 1 point he ran for 173 and 3 tds.

Ranked #76 in the nation against the run

@ Cinci....which they lost by 8 points he ran for 145 and 1 td.

Ranked #61 in the nation against the run

vs Boise State they lost 51-34 he ran for 234 and 3tds. However, he had a 69 yard td run and 60 yard td in the second quarter. As well as a 68 yard td run, down by 14 in the 4th quarter with 13 minutes left in the game....hardly a time for "3rd stringers" or "scrubs".

The score is Boise 34, Fresno 3 with 7:44 to go in the second quarter, the second score is Boise 34, Fresno 10 with 5:00 togo in the 2nd and it was probably the next possession for Fresno considering the time frame from the first score. The 3rd score it was Boise St 41, Fresno 27 with 13:16 in the 4th showed. It looks like the ran the same play over and over on the 1st and 2nd TD. On the 3rd they ran the same play just to the opposite side.

@ Wisconsin they lost in overtime and he ran for 107.

Ranked #93 against the run

@ Rutgers they won his sophomore year and he ran for 163 and 3 tds.

I don't have the numbers

@ UCLA they won by 5 and he ran for 166 and 1 td...also caught 1 td.

I don't have the numbers

I've said it once, twice and again, you must look at the level of competition.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Nice discussion and highlights the questions for both. Not sure how the OP thinks that Mathews gets no respect though. He's in the conversation with Spiller, Dwyer and Best for a top 5 dynasty pick.

I think Spiller is an electric runner, but it does remain to be seen if he can consistently run inside. Just because he doesn't do it in college doesn't mean he cannot. He has such a speed advantage that he can turn everything outside and make it to the corner. When he sees that he can't do that all the time in the NFL (although I think he'll still be able to some of the time) will he be decisive running inside and will he do it well?

Mathews has a lot of very good qualities as well, but does not excel at any one thing, IMO. I was less impressed with the bowl game against a horrible Wyoming run defense than others here. But one game does not a career make.

 

[NoProblem]

We're talking about college not NFL and it sounds like the same point I'm making. I'm really not sure what you read out of my post but again you making my exact point. I'm not sure what else Spiller has to do to be considered by a small few to prove he has to "carry the load" lol. He's #3 in the country at "carrying to load" with 200 all purpose yds a game and the ONLY player to score a touch down in EVERY game this year.

B/c Mardy Gilyard has a ton of all purpose yards....does that mean he can carry the load at RB in the NFL? See my point....talk carrys, catches or "touches" and you might make an arguement.

Not necessarily but Spiller has 606 carries and Matthews has 538 so if there are questions about Spiller then certainly it MUST apply to Matthews because Spiller has 68 more carries, right? Plus I believe the Gilyard light frame is more question than Spiller. Honestly I believe he could be fine at 195lbs.

Because these points may help someone else who has not made a decision on which rb to draft. I have my mind made up on Spiller and others have their mind made up about Mathews.

I'm not saying Mathews is bad but his highlights are filled with some of worst run defenses in all of college: Hawaii, New Mexico St., and Cincy whom were #117, #107, and #61 against the run.

Some games were out of hand and Fresno St was getting blown away (garbage time stats) so they just fed Matthews the ball while the other team had their 3rd string in. (I really don't know about the 3rd string but when you're up by 30+pts I'm sure the scrubs are playing).

I don't care really who people draft that's on them, it amazes me that He is electrifying as they come with no injury issues (see Best), he can pass, block, catch, placed on kick return, punts and can score anytime he touch the ball. Yet people come up with "questions" about this or that, it's just funny to me. Wow, the eyes don't lie, it's the brain which gets caught-up in nonsense that cause one to make the wrong decision in Fantasy Football.

Tex

I decided to do some work and break this down(Mathews/Spiller run defenses). Run defense rankings are by rushing yards per game....which I don't think is fair. Say Auburn runs 40 times in a game vs clemson and Alabama runs 2 twice vs clemson....that isn't the same. So I went by yards per carry which should be more accurate despite the carries that took place in a game.Great job!

This can be easily explained by looking at the pass defense stats. Agreed? Example: If a defense is allowing only 121 yds passing per game yet giving up 300 then we could presume that their run defense suck and teams don't have to pass but run and control the clock.

I used 100 yard games as a bench mark(seems pretty fair).

But this takes away from the real number, no? I'll add actual numbers and see if it holds water

I then will list the team they ran it against and the ypc the defense gave up for the year.

I'll use national ranking because level of competition must be know when analyzing prospects (seems pretty fair)

I add an "r" for run, the next number is what they allowed and "p" for pass, the next number will be what they allowed then I'll show how each of the prospects performed against those numbers.

Spiller in 2009:

TCU

#3r/2.59 (Spiller 4.3) +1.7

#6p/10.97 (Spiller 26.3) +15

Wake Forest

#82r/4.55 (Spiller 11.8) +7.2

#61p/12.5 (Spiller 3.0) -9

Florida State

#108r/5.38 (Spiller 7.5) +2.1

#77p/14.59 (Spiller 22.3) +7.7

Georgia Tech

#68r/4.0 (Spiller 4.4) +.4

#45p/11.92 (Spiller 17.3) +5.4

Spiller did great against the National Ranking

Mathews in 2009:

@Wisconsin

#5r/2.89 (Matt 5.6)

#55p/13.15 (Matt 4.9)

Boise State

#28r/3.83 (Matt 12.3) This was the game that was clearly out of hand

#21p/10.45 (0)

@Cinci

#61r/3.63 (Matt 3.8)

#78p/11.21 (Matt 16.0)

@Hawaii

#107r/4.89 (Matt 6.2)

#35p/12.31 (Matt 0)

San Jose St

#119r/6.13 (11.7)

#22p/12.97 (0)

@New Mexico St

#114r/5.61 (Matt 6.3)

#36p/13.53 (Matt 27.0)

Utah State

#110r/5.29 (Matt 8.0)

#101p/14.0 (Matt 13.0)

@Idaho

#77r/4.72 (Matt 5.5)

#116p/12.38 (Matt 6.0)

@Illinois

#76r/4.23 (Matt 5.4)

#100p/13.04 (0)

Wyoming

#93r/4.39 (Matt 4.6)

#65p/11.17 (Matt (0)

Judging by yards per carry it seems pretty even to be honest.

The level of competition in which Matthew had to face is very weak to say the least.

Actually some of the weakest in the entire country.

Lets look at other games they went over 100 in their career(sorry I couldn't find ypc for all the years)

I currently don't have the national numbers for '07-'08

Spiller in 2008:

None

Mathews in 2008:

@Rutgers- 3.8

@UCLA- 4.4

Spiller in 2007:

@NC State

@ Maryland

Auburn

Mathews in 2007:

@Nevada

San Jose State

Utah State

Spiller in 2006:

Louisiana Tech

@Wake Forest

Georgia Tech

NC State

South Carolina

Mathews in 2006:

He was in High School.

Then you stated that Mathews had "garbage time stats". So lets look at the good opponents and see.

In the bowl game vs Wyoming...in which they lost in overtime....he ran for 144 and 2 tds.

Ranked #93 in the nation against the run

@ Illinois...which they won by 1 point he ran for 173 and 3 tds.

Ranked #76 in the nation against the run

@ Cinci....which they lost by 8 points he ran for 145 and 1 td.

Ranked #61 in the nation against the run

vs Boise State they lost 51-34 he ran for 234 and 3tds. However, he had a 69 yard td run and 60 yard td in the second quarter. As well as a 68 yard td run, down by 14 in the 4th quarter with 13 minutes left in the game....hardly a time for "3rd stringers" or "scrubs".

The score is Boise 34, Fresno 3 with 7:44 to go in the second quarter, the second score is Boise 34, Fresno 10 with 5:00 togo in the 2nd and it was probably the next possession for Fresno considering the time frame from the first score. The 3rd score it was Boise St 41, Fresno 27 with 13:16 in the 4th showed. It looks like the ran the same play over and over on the 1st and 2nd TD. On the 3rd they ran the same play just to the opposite side.

@ Wisconsin they lost in overtime and he ran for 107.

Ranked #93 against the run

@ Rutgers they won his sophomore year and he ran for 163 and 3 tds.

I don't have the numbers

@ UCLA they won by 5 and he ran for 166 and 1 td...also caught 1 td.

I don't have the numbers

I've said it once, twice and again, you must look at the level of competition.

I have always wondered about this argument. How do you account also for the O-line play (you aren't getting the same talent level of the bigger programs)? Does that offset or negate the level of competition you are facing? Just wondering for those that have seen more so as to better evaluate.

 

[BigTex]

We're talking about college not NFL and it sounds like the same point I'm making. I'm really not sure what you read out of my post but again you making my exact point. I'm not sure what else Spiller has to do to be considered by a small few to prove he has to "carry the load" lol. He's #3 in the country at "carrying to load" with 200 all purpose yds a game and the ONLY player to score a touch down in EVERY game this year.

B/c Mardy Gilyard has a ton of all purpose yards....does that mean he can carry the load at RB in the NFL? See my point....talk carrys, catches or "touches" and you might make an arguement.

Not necessarily but Spiller has 606 carries and Matthews has 538 so if there are questions about Spiller then certainly it MUST apply to Matthews because Spiller has 68 more carries, right? Plus I believe the Gilyard light frame is more question than Spiller. Honestly I believe he could be fine at 195lbs.

Because these points may help someone else who has not made a decision on which rb to draft. I have my mind made up on Spiller and others have their mind made up about Mathews.

I'm not saying Mathews is bad but his highlights are filled with some of worst run defenses in all of college: Hawaii, New Mexico St., and Cincy whom were #117, #107, and #61 against the run.

Some games were out of hand and Fresno St was getting blown away (garbage time stats) so they just fed Matthews the ball while the other team had their 3rd string in. (I really don't know about the 3rd string but when you're up by 30+pts I'm sure the scrubs are playing).

I don't care really who people draft that's on them, it amazes me that He is electrifying as they come with no injury issues (see Best), he can pass, block, catch, placed on kick return, punts and can score anytime he touch the ball. Yet people come up with "questions" about this or that, it's just funny to me. Wow, the eyes don't lie, it's the brain which gets caught-up in nonsense that cause one to make the wrong decision in Fantasy Football.

Tex

I decided to do some work and break this down(Mathews/Spiller run defenses). Run defense rankings are by rushing yards per game....which I don't think is fair. Say Auburn runs 40 times in a game vs clemson and Alabama runs 2 twice vs clemson....that isn't the same. So I went by yards per carry which should be more accurate despite the carries that took place in a game.Great job!

This can be easily explained by looking at the pass defense stats. Agreed? Example: If a defense is allowing only 121 yds passing per game yet giving up 300 then we could presume that their run defense suck and teams don't have to pass but run and control the clock.

I used 100 yard games as a bench mark(seems pretty fair).

But this takes away from the real number, no? I'll add actual numbers and see if it holds water

I then will list the team they ran it against and the ypc the defense gave up for the year.

I'll use national ranking because level of competition must be know when analyzing prospects (seems pretty fair)

I add an "r" for run, the next number is what they allowed and "p" for pass, the next number will be what they allowed then I'll show how each of the prospects performed against those numbers.

Spiller in 2009:

TCU

#3r/2.59 (Spiller 4.3) +1.7

#6p/10.97 (Spiller 26.3) +15

Wake Forest

#82r/4.55 (Spiller 11.8) +7.2

#61p/12.5 (Spiller 3.0) -9

Florida State

#108r/5.38 (Spiller 7.5) +2.1

#77p/14.59 (Spiller 22.3) +7.7

Georgia Tech

#68r/4.0 (Spiller 4.4) +.4

#45p/11.92 (Spiller 17.3) +5.4

Spiller did great against the National Ranking

Mathews in 2009:

@Wisconsin

#5r/2.89 (Matt 5.6)

#55p/13.15 (Matt 4.9)

Boise State

#28r/3.83 (Matt 12.3) This was the game that was clearly out of hand

#21p/10.45 (0)

@Cinci

#61r/3.63 (Matt 3.8)

#78p/11.21 (Matt 16.0)

@Hawaii

#107r/4.89 (Matt 6.2)

#35p/12.31 (Matt 0)

San Jose St

#119r/6.13 (11.7)

#22p/12.97 (0)

@New Mexico St

#114r/5.61 (Matt 6.3)

#36p/13.53 (Matt 27.0)

Utah State

#110r/5.29 (Matt 8.0)

#101p/14.0 (Matt 13.0)

@Idaho

#77r/4.72 (Matt 5.5)

#116p/12.38 (Matt 6.0)

@Illinois

#76r/4.23 (Matt 5.4)

#100p/13.04 (0)

Wyoming

#93r/4.39 (Matt 4.6)

#65p/11.17 (Matt (0)

Judging by yards per carry it seems pretty even to be honest.

The level of competition in which Matthew had to face is very weak to say the least.

Actually some of the weakest in the entire country.

Lets look at other games they went over 100 in their career(sorry I couldn't find ypc for all the years)

I currently don't have the national numbers for '07-'08

Spiller in 2008:

None

Mathews in 2008:

@Rutgers- 3.8

@UCLA- 4.4

Spiller in 2007:

@NC State

@ Maryland

Auburn

Mathews in 2007:

@Nevada

San Jose State

Utah State

Spiller in 2006:

Louisiana Tech

@Wake Forest

Georgia Tech

NC State

South Carolina

Mathews in 2006:

He was in High School.

Then you stated that Mathews had "garbage time stats". So lets look at the good opponents and see.

In the bowl game vs Wyoming...in which they lost in overtime....he ran for 144 and 2 tds.

Ranked #93 in the nation against the run

@ Illinois...which they won by 1 point he ran for 173 and 3 tds.

Ranked #76 in the nation against the run

@ Cinci....which they lost by 8 points he ran for 145 and 1 td.

Ranked #61 in the nation against the run

vs Boise State they lost 51-34 he ran for 234 and 3tds. However, he had a 69 yard td run and 60 yard td in the second quarter. As well as a 68 yard td run, down by 14 in the 4th quarter with 13 minutes left in the game....hardly a time for "3rd stringers" or "scrubs".

The score is Boise 34, Fresno 3 with 7:44 to go in the second quarter, the second score is Boise 34, Fresno 10 with 5:00 togo in the 2nd and it was probably the next possession for Fresno considering the time frame from the first score. The 3rd score it was Boise St 41, Fresno 27 with 13:16 in the 4th showed. It looks like the ran the same play over and over on the 1st and 2nd TD. On the 3rd they ran the same play just to the opposite side.

@ Wisconsin they lost in overtime and he ran for 107.

Ranked #93 against the run

@ Rutgers they won his sophomore year and he ran for 163 and 3 tds.

I don't have the numbers

@ UCLA they won by 5 and he ran for 166 and 1 td...also caught 1 td.

I don't have the numbers

I've said it once, twice and again, you must look at the level of competition.

I have always wondered about this argument. How do you account also for the O-line play (you aren't getting the same talent level of the bigger programs)? Does that offset or negate the level of competition you are facing? Just wondering for those that have seen more so as to better evaluate.

Level of Competition is the one factor that many do not take notice of but there are many factors involved. The discussion led_the_way and I are having about player in two different conferences Spiller is in the ACC and Matthew plays in the WAC. There's no question the ACC is a tougher conference to play in. Just look at how many will get drafted out of each conference and you'll see. If they both played in the same conference then that argument goes out the door.Spiller put up outstanding number around the board and natural speed to boot. He's doing all this behind a horrible ol which shows just how athletic he is. There have been many occasions in which he had NO lane to run through and he'll still take it to the distance. Look at some of the highlights in that EBF thread Matthew has lanes so huge he could stop for a moment and enjoy a Big Mac, Seriously!

A prime example of this is the Emmit Smith vs Barry Sanders debate.

So you're asking a two-fold question: Level of Competition and the status of a players supporting cast.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Big Tex...

I am having trouble believing your side of the argument when facts are presented by you that are false.

-For Instance...you said "The score is Boise 34, Fresno 3 with 7:44 to go in the second quarter, the second score is Boise 34, Fresno 10 with 5:00 togo in the 2nd and it was probably the next possession for Fresno considering the time frame from the first score. The 3rd score it was Boise St 41, Fresno 27 with 13:16 in the 4th showed. It looks like the ran the same play over and over on the 1st and 2nd TD. On the 3rd they ran the same play just to the opposite side."

When in reality the score the first run was 24-3, the second run it was 24-10.

-Another Instance...you said "Some games were out of hand and Fresno St was getting blown away (garbage time stats) so they just fed Matthews the ball while the other team had their 3rd string in. (I really don't know about the 3rd string but when you're up by 30+pts I'm sure the scrubs are playing)."

And later stated "Boise State

#28r/3.83 (Matt 12.3) This was the game that was clearly out of hand

#21p/10.45 (0)"

It wasn't out of hand and I re-watched the plays to determine as many of the defensive players were on the field. They had their leading tacklers for the year out on the field: 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 14th, 16th, and 17th leading tacklers on the field.

-"Spiller's numbers>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mathew's numbers in every category"

I have shown you that he doesn't.....he rarely has Mathews beat in any rushing category.

-You keep talking about all-purpose yards as some kind of relation to carrying the load.....then I point out and you agree that Mardy Gilyard(who has more all-purpose yards you stated) cannot carry the load b/c of frame....see the contradiction and why return stats have no relevance?

-You commented on how Spiller played in the ACC...in regards to that should help him carry the load. The ACC is far from a conference powerhouse. I would rather have the SEC, Big 12, Big 10, Pac 10 over the ACC.

-Regarding Spiller's size...it is a deterent....it is possible he could lose his speed with trying to add weight.....mathew's frame is fine the way he is. At 5'11 it is possible for Spiller...but one can't assume it can just happen....he is a senior and 22....older than the other RBs(Mathews, Best, Dwyer) as well.

-Spiller has 606 carries and Mathews has 538 so the "carrying the load" question should go to Mathews as well.

Funny statement when you compare Mathews having that amount of carries in a 3 year period...while it took Spiller 4 years. Games played Spiller=52 Mathews=31. As well as Mathews having 25 more pounds on Spiller.

-"Spiller does things you haven't seen in some time...." Then you talked about record books.

You do realize that James Davis just had a great career at RB for Clemson just before Spiller. While Spiller had a slightly better one....it isn't by much.

Rushing

Spiller-606 for 3,547 5.85 32 TD

Davis- 753 for 3,881 5.15 47 TD

Davis also had 51 catches for over 400 yards and 2 TDs.

Spiller was better than Davis....outside of TD's but still its comparable. So to say things you haven't seen in some time....is very relative...but you just missed another RB from the same school that put up comparable numbers.

-Then I went through game by game and showed how his games weren't blow outs vs solid competition.

-Since you seem hung up that Spiller faced much better run defenses....lets look.

Game 1- Middle Tennessee 50th ranked run D - 4 for 12 yards

Game 2- Georgia Tech 68th run D - 20 for 87

Game 3- Boston College 14th run D -17 for 77

Game 4- TCU 3rd run D -26 for 112 1 TD

Game 5- Maryland 66th run D - 18 for 72

Game 6- Wake Forest 82nd run D - 9 for 106 2 TDs

Game 7- Miami(FL) 32nd run D - 14 for 81

Game 8- Coastal Carolina (non BCS school) - 5 for 27 1 TD

Game 9- Florida State 108th run D - 22 for 165 1 TD

Game 10- NC State 57th run D - 18 for 97 1 TD

Game 11- Virginia 95th run D - 19 for 58 1 TD

Game 12- South Carolina 52nd run D - 9 for 18

Game 13- Georgia Tech 68th run D - 20 for 233 4 TD

Game 14- Kentucky 100th ranked run D - 15 for 67 1 TD

So he faced the 3rd, 14th, 32nd, 50th, 52nd, 57th, 66th, 68th, 68th, 82nd, 95th, 100th, 108th, and a non-FBS school.

Mathews

Game 1-UC Davis non-FBS - 11 for 106 1 TD

Game 2-Wisconsin 5th Run D - 19 for 107

Game 3-Boise State 28th Run D - 19 for 234 3 TDs

Game 4-Cincinatti 61st Run D - 38 for 145 1 TD

Game 5-hawaii 107th Run D - 24 for 149 1 TD

Game 6-San Jose State 119th Run D - 20 for 233 1 TD

Game 7-New Mexico State 114th Run D - 25 for 157 2 TDs

Game 8-Utah State 110th Run D - 23 for 185 2 TDs

Game 9-Idaho 77th Run D - 26 for 143 3 TDs

Game 10-Nevada 22nd Run D - 8 for 32 (got injured in the 2nd quarter)

Game 11-Did not play

Game 12-Illinois 76th Run D - 32 for 173 3 TDs

Game 13-Wyoming 93rd Run D - 31 for 144 2 TDs

So he faced the 5th, 22nd, 28th, 61st, 76th, 77th, 93rd, 107th, 110th, 114th, 119th, and a non-FBS school.

They both faced a couple good run D's...Spiller faced some better middle run D's....Mathews had 2 more easy run Defenses...but looking at the numbers it isn't the landslide you made it out to be.

Then if you look how they produced.....Mathews ran for over 100 on every team outside of the game he got hurt in the second quarter.

Level of Competition can also be taken this way.

Who has a better offensive line.....probably Spiller. Better QB- Spiller....you get the idea. I'm sure defenses fear Jacoby Ford much more than the Fresno WR's as well. So teams could gameplan more for Mathews than Spiller.

 

[BigTex]

Big Tex...

I am having trouble believing your side of the argument when facts are presented by you that are false.

-For Instance...you said "The score is Boise 34, Fresno 3 with 7:44 to go in the second quarter, the second score is Boise 34, Fresno 10 with 5:00 togo in the 2nd and it was probably the next possession for Fresno considering the time frame from the first score. The 3rd score it was Boise St 41, Fresno 27 with 13:16 in the 4th showed. It looks like the ran the same play over and over on the 1st and 2nd TD. On the 3rd they ran the same play just to the opposite side."

When in reality the score the first run was 24-3, the second run it was 24-10.

-Another Instance...you said "Some games were out of hand and Fresno St was getting blown away (garbage time stats) so they just fed Matthews the ball while the other team had their 3rd string in. (I really don't know about the 3rd string but when you're up by 30+pts I'm sure the scrubs are playing)."

And later stated "Boise State

#28r/3.83 (Matt 12.3) This was the game that was clearly out of hand

#21p/10.45 (0)"

It wasn't out of hand and I re-watched the plays to determine as many of the defensive players were on the field. They had their leading tacklers for the year out on the field: 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 14th, 16th, and 17th leading tacklers on the field.

-"Spiller's numbers>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mathew's numbers in every category"

I have shown you that he doesn't.....he rarely has Mathews beat in any rushing category.

-You keep talking about all-purpose yards as some kind of relation to carrying the load.....then I point out and you agree that Mardy Gilyard(who has more all-purpose yards you stated) cannot carry the load b/c of frame....see the contradiction and why return stats have no relevance?

-You commented on how Spiller played in the ACC...in regards to that should help him carry the load. The ACC is far from a conference powerhouse. I would rather have the SEC, Big 12, Big 10, Pac 10 over the ACC.

-Regarding Spiller's size...it is a deterent....it is possible he could lose his speed with trying to add weight.....mathew's frame is fine the way he is. At 5'11 it is possible for Spiller...but one can't assume it can just happen....he is a senior and 22....older than the other RBs(Mathews, Best, Dwyer) as well.

-Spiller has 606 carries and Mathews has 538 so the "carrying the load" question should go to Mathews as well.

Funny statement when you compare Mathews having that amount of carries in a 3 year period...while it took Spiller 4 years. Games played Spiller=52 Mathews=31. As well as Mathews having 25 more pounds on Spiller.

-"Spiller does things you haven't seen in some time...." Then you talked about record books.

You do realize that James Davis just had a great career at RB for Clemson just before Spiller. While Spiller had a slightly better one....it isn't by much.

Rushing

Spiller-606 for 3,547 5.85 32 TD

Davis- 753 for 3,881 5.15 47 TD

Davis also had 51 catches for over 400 yards and 2 TDs.

Spiller was better than Davis....outside of TD's but still its comparable. So to say things you haven't seen in some time....is very relative...but you just missed another RB from the same school that put up comparable numbers.

-Then I went through game by game and showed how his games weren't blow outs vs solid competition.

-Since you seem hung up that Spiller faced much better run defenses....lets look.

Game 1- Middle Tennessee 50th ranked run D - 4 for 12 yards

Game 2- Georgia Tech 68th run D - 20 for 87

Game 3- Boston College 14th run D -17 for 77

Game 4- TCU 3rd run D -26 for 112 1 TD

Game 5- Maryland 66th run D - 18 for 72

Game 6- Wake Forest 82nd run D - 9 for 106 2 TDs

Game 7- Miami(FL) 32nd run D - 14 for 81

Game 8- Coastal Carolina (non BCS school) - 5 for 27 1 TD

Game 9- Florida State 108th run D - 22 for 165 1 TD

Game 10- NC State 57th run D - 18 for 97 1 TD

Game 11- Virginia 95th run D - 19 for 58 1 TD

Game 12- South Carolina 52nd run D - 9 for 18

Game 13- Georgia Tech 68th run D - 20 for 233 4 TD

Game 14- Kentucky 100th ranked run D - 15 for 67 1 TD

So he faced the 3rd, 14th, 32nd, 50th, 52nd, 57th, 66th, 68th, 68th, 82nd, 95th, 100th, 108th, and a non-FBS school.

Mathews

Game 1-UC Davis non-FBS - 11 for 106 1 TD

Game 2-Wisconsin 5th Run D - 19 for 107

Game 3-Boise State 28th Run D - 19 for 234 3 TDs

Game 4-Cincinatti 61st Run D - 38 for 145 1 TD

Game 5-hawaii 107th Run D - 24 for 149 1 TD

Game 6-San Jose State 119th Run D - 20 for 233 1 TD

Game 7-New Mexico State 114th Run D - 25 for 157 2 TDs

Game 8-Utah State 110th Run D - 23 for 185 2 TDs

Game 9-Idaho 77th Run D - 26 for 143 3 TDs

Game 10-Nevada 22nd Run D - 8 for 32 (got injured in the 2nd quarter)

Game 11-Did not play

Game 12-Illinois 76th Run D - 32 for 173 3 TDs

Game 13-Wyoming 93rd Run D - 31 for 144 2 TDs

So he faced the 5th, 22nd, 28th, 61st, 76th, 77th, 93rd, 107th, 110th, 114th, 119th, and a non-FBS school.

They both faced a couple good run D's...Spiller faced some better middle run D's....Mathews had 2 more easy run Defenses...but looking at the numbers it isn't the landslide you made it out to be.

Then if you look how they produced.....Mathews ran for over 100 on every team outside of the game he got hurt in the second quarter.

Level of Competition can also be taken this way.

Who has a better offensive line.....probably Spiller. Better QB- Spiller....you get the idea. I'm sure defenses fear Jacoby Ford much more than the Fresno WR's as well. So teams could gameplan more for Mathews than Spiller.

Benson, the video I looked at is in this thread. The video is not the best quality, its actually poor. I had to try and focus my eyes to look at the numbers. It's honestly what I believe I saw. I will take another look to make sure and if the numbers are wrong then I will correct them. I'll take a closer look at your response here and respond to it. I've taken my medication and it's kicking in a bit. So if I fade away, I'll surely return. LOLTex

 

[BigTex]

34 seconds into this video it looks like 34

But going here its clearly 24 http://espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=292610278

That's a mistake on my part. I didn't record any of Frenso St.'s games. So all I have are the You Tube highlights that are available. This video is choppy on my Dell XPS.

I'm going to lay down, the pain is getting to me a bit and I'll respond to post #44 shortly.

Tex

 

[BigTex]

Big Tex...

I am having trouble believing your side of the argument when facts are presented by you that are false.

-For Instance...you said "The score is Boise 34, Fresno 3 with 7:44 to go in the second quarter, the second score is Boise 34, Fresno 10 with 5:00 togo in the 2nd and it was probably the next possession for Fresno considering the time frame from the first score. The 3rd score it was Boise St 41, Fresno 27 with 13:16 in the 4th showed. It looks like the ran the same play over and over on the 1st and 2nd TD. On the 3rd they ran the same play just to the opposite side."

When in reality the score the first run was 24-3, the second run it was 24-10.

We've cleared this up

-Another Instance...you said "Some games were out of hand and Fresno St was getting blown away (garbage time stats) so they just fed Matthews the ball while the other team had their 3rd string in. (I really don't know about the 3rd string but when you're up by 30+pts I'm sure the scrubs are playing)."

I based this partcially on the Boise St game which I thought the score was 34 to 3

And later stated "Boise State

#28r/3.83 (Matt 12.3) This was the game that was clearly out of hand

#21p/10.45 (0)"

It wasn't out of hand and I re-watched the plays to determine as many of the defensive players were on the field. They had their leading tacklers for the year out on the field: 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 14th, 16th, and 17th leading tacklers on the field.

Again, this was based on thinking the score was 34 to 3 and if you read my second comment I said I really didn't know for sure.

-"Spiller's numbers>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mathew's numbers in every category"

I have shown you that he doesn't.....he rarely has Mathews beat in any rushing category.

LOL, I didn't say "rushing category," I said numbers and it holds true.

First do you agree that the level of competition is great in the ACC vs the WAC?

From a career standpoint, *True or False*

Spiller has more TDs

Spiller has more carries

Spiller has more rushing yards

Spiller is faster

Spiller has more catches

Spiller has more receiving yards

Spiller has more all-purpose yards

What other numbers are there?

-You keep talking about all-purpose yards as some kind of relation to carrying the load.....then I point out and you agree that Mardy Gilyard(who has more all-purpose yards you stated) cannot carry the load b/c of frame....see the contradiction and why return stats have no relevance?

No contradiction at all, Spiller is a running back that has produced at EVERY level of the game, what else do you want? Can you say the same about Matthews? He's EVERY owner's dream, a track star with first class speed which can produce at a very high level. Again, what else do you want? I've seen Matthews get caught from behind have you seen CJ4 caught from behind? LOL! He's touch the ball in every facet of the game. So tell me, what does "carrying the load" mean? Maybe we have different definitions. The diference between CJ4 and Gilyard is simply this, CJ4 being 3rd in the nation in all-purpose yards is rare. It's normally WR/KR that hold these type of records and for a running back to do it is outstanding, it's a sharks starting tailback and a guppy's wet dream.

-You commented on how Spiller played in the ACC...in regards to that should help him carry the load. The ACC is far from a conference powerhouse. I would rather have the SEC, Big 12, Big 10, Pac 10 over the ACC.

:Iversonvioce:But we're talking about them we're talking about the WAC, the WAC man, we're talking about the WAC:Iversonvoice:

Plus, I never said "powerhouse" but we are talking about the WAC here.

-Regarding Spiller's size...it is a deterent....it is possible he could lose his speed with trying to add weight.....mathew's frame is fine the way he is. At 5'11 it is possible for Spiller...but one can't assume it can just happen....he is a senior and 22....older than the other RBs(Mathews, Best, Dwyer) as well.

I don't speak in hypotheticals because we really don't know what will happen regarding him gaining weight.

LOL, you're wrong about their age, Matt: May 1, 1987. Spiller: Aug 15, 1987. Best: Jan 30, 1989. Dwyer: July 26, 1989

-Spiller has 606 carries and Mathews has 538 so the "carrying the load" question should go to Mathews as well.

Funny statement when you compare Mathews having that amount of carries in a 3 year period...while it took Spiller 4 years. Games played Spiller=52 Mathews=31. As well as Mathews having 25 more pounds on Spiller.

Don't know how you're trying to rebuke this. He had 606 carries during his college career. There's no shame in that no matter how you try to twist it. I can't believe you would even try this. Spiller has his degree, he did his time, he's a matured Senior RB (that's younger than Matthews by the way, just in case you missed it) that's playing like a stud. He has that WOW factor.

-"Spiller does things you haven't seen in some time...." Then you talked about record books.

You do realize that James Davis just had a great career at RB for Clemson just before Spiller. While Spiller had a slightly better one....it isn't by much.

Rushing

Spiller-606 for 3,547 5.85 32 TD

Davis- 753 for 3,881 5.15 47 TD

Davis also had 51 catches for over 400 yards and 2 TDs.

Spiller was better than Davis....outside of TD's but still its comparable. So to say things you haven't seen in some time....is very relative...but you just missed another RB from the same school that put up comparable numbers.

Again, you're inserting someone that has nothing to do with the argument, you did the same thing with McFadden. The CLEAR difference between the two is that Davis's numbers took a nose dive from his junior yr as CJ4 numbers went to Jupiter. Hell, CJ4 was the reason why his numbers took a nose dive.

Let's keep this CJ4 vs Matthews.

-Then I went through game by game and showed how his games weren't blow outs vs solid competition.

-Since you seem hung up that Spiller faced much better run defenses....lets look.

Game 1- Middle Tennessee 50th ranked run D - 4 for 12 yards

Game 2- Georgia Tech 68th run D - 20 for 87

Game 3- Boston College 14th run D -17 for 77

Game 4- TCU 3rd run D -26 for 112 1 TD

Game 5- Maryland 66th run D - 18 for 72

Game 6- Wake Forest 82nd run D - 9 for 106 2 TDs

Game 7- Miami(FL) 32nd run D - 14 for 81

Game 8- Coastal Carolina (non BCS school) - 5 for 27 1 TD

Game 9- Florida State 108th run D - 22 for 165 1 TD

Game 10- NC State 57th run D - 18 for 97 1 TD

Game 11- Virginia 95th run D - 19 for 58 1 TD

Game 12- South Carolina 52nd run D - 9 for 18

Game 13- Georgia Tech 68th run D - 20 for 233 4 TD

Game 14- Kentucky 100th ranked run D - 15 for 67 1 TD

So he faced the 3rd, 14th, 32nd, 50th, 52nd, 57th, 66th, 68th, 68th, 82nd, 95th, 100th, 108th, and a non-FBS school.

Mathews

Game 1-UC Davis non-FBS - 11 for 106 1 TD

Game 2-Wisconsin 5th Run D - 19 for 107

Game 3-Boise State 28th Run D - 19 for 234 3 TDs

Game 4-Cincinatti 61st Run D - 38 for 145 1 TD

Game 5-hawaii 107th Run D - 24 for 149 1 TD

Game 6-San Jose State 119th Run D - 20 for 233 1 TD

Game 7-New Mexico State 114th Run D - 25 for 157 2 TDs

Game 8-Utah State 110th Run D - 23 for 185 2 TDs

Game 9-Idaho 77th Run D - 26 for 143 3 TDs

Game 10-Nevada 22nd Run D - 8 for 32 (got injured in the 2nd quarter)

Game 11-Did not play

Game 12-Illinois 76th Run D - 32 for 173 3 TDs

Game 13-Wyoming 93rd Run D - 31 for 144 2 TDs

So he faced the 5th, 22nd, 28th, 61st, 76th, 77th, 93rd, 107th, 110th, 114th, 119th, and a non-FBS school.

It's not how you start but how you finish and Spiller finishes the college race with better numbers.

They both faced a couple good run D's...Spiller faced some better middle run D's....Mathews had 2 more easy run Defenses...but looking at the numbers it isn't the landslide you made it out to be.

No, no, no. Never said it was a landslide, this is your second habit. You like to put words in my mouth. All I said was he faced tougher competition. If this is not true then just come out and say it. Say the WAC is a stronger Division than the ACC.

I agree they both faced some good teams.

Then if you look how they produced.....Mathews ran for over 100 on every team outside of the game he got hurt in the second quarter.

But they were the weakiest of the weak, we've already looked at that.

Level of Competition can also be taken this way.

Who has a better offensive line.....probably Spiller. Better QB- Spiller....you get the idea. I'm sure defenses fear Jacoby Ford much more than the Fresno WR's as well. So teams could gameplan more for Mathews than Spiller.

OK, you're reaching for straws now.

Again, I don't do hypotheticals. Ford was average at best in college. That's why everyone including myself are surprised at how good he's doing.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Ok lets review here.

-You stated that Mathews got his stats in garbage time when games were out of hand.

I proved that false...and also showed that many of the games were very close most of the time.

-The stats argument is funny as well.

Career Seasons Played:

Spiller- 4

Mathews -3

Career Games Played:

Spiller- 52

Mathews- 31

So attempting to write in career numbers are irrelevant...just like using kick returning or punt returning stats. Mathews can't compare b/c he didn't have even close to the same amount of games or return kicks.

Career Rushing TD's

Spiller-32

Mathews-39

-Wait a minute....Mathews has more rushing TD's...despite playing in 21 less games than Spiller and having 72 less carries. Crazy....thats not EVERY STAT.

Career Rushing Average

Spiller- 5.85

Mathews- 6.14

This past year rushing numbers-

Spiller- 216 for 1212 5.6 12

Mathews- 276 for 1808 6.6 19

Spillers rushing average was best his Freshman year and went down significantly.

Spiller by year:

FR-129 for 938 7.3 10

SO-145 for 768 5.3 3

JR-116 for 629 5.4 7

SR-216 for 1212 5.6 12

-Oh....his name is CJ Spiller....not CJ4....its annoying that these guys get all these silly nicknames, especially when they are unearned

-You believe that ALL PURPOSE yards mean something when playing RB and I don't....I don't get why a "stud RB" would be doing this at the next level and why it would even matter in the evaluation process.

-Also...why would his throwing TD's matter......seriously

-Then you discuss the conference difference(ACC vs WAC)...(shouldn't the run defenses matter more than the conference?) when I have shown the run defensive stats in two different ways.

1) By rushing average the defense gave up for the season

Spiller in 2009:

TCU- 2.6

Wake Forest- 4.6

Florida State- 5.4

Georgia Tech- 4.9

Mathews in 2009:

UC- Davis(they are irrevelant b/c they aren't FBS)

@Wisconsin- 2.9

Boise State- 3.8

@Cinci- 3.6

@Hawaii- 4.9

San Jose St- 6.1

@New Mexico St- 5.6

Utah State- 5.3

@Idaho- 4.7

@Illinois- 4.2

Wyoming- 4.4

Judging by yards per carry it seems pretty even to be honest.

Lets look at other games they went over 100 in their career(sorry I couldn't find ypc for all the years)

Spiller in 2008:

None

Mathews in 2008:

@Rutgers- 3.8

@UCLA- 4.4

Spiller in 2007:

@NC State

@ Maryland

Auburn

Mathews in 2007:

@Nevada

San Jose State

Utah State

Spiller in 2006:

Louisiana Tech

@Wake Forest

Georgia Tech

NC State

South Carolina

Mathews in 2006:

He was in High School.

2) By rushing defense ranking...which is relative to carries but I still broke it down for you.

Game 1- Middle Tennessee 50th ranked run D - 4 for 12 yards

Game 2- Georgia Tech 68th run D - 20 for 87

Game 3- Boston College 14th run D -17 for 77

Game 4- TCU 3rd run D -26 for 112 1 TD

Game 5- Maryland 66th run D - 18 for 72

Game 6- Wake Forest 82nd run D - 9 for 106 2 TDs

Game 7- Miami(FL) 32nd run D - 14 for 81

Game 8- Coastal Carolina (non BCS school) - 5 for 27 1 TD

Game 9- Florida State 108th run D - 22 for 165 1 TD

Game 10- NC State 57th run D - 18 for 97 1 TD

Game 11- Virginia 95th run D - 19 for 58 1 TD

Game 12- South Carolina 52nd run D - 9 for 18

Game 13- Georgia Tech 68th run D - 20 for 233 4 TD

Game 14- Kentucky 100th ranked run D - 15 for 67 1 TD

So he faced the 3rd, 14th, 32nd, 50th, 52nd, 57th, 66th, 68th, 68th, 82nd, 95th, 100th, 108th, and a non-FBS school.

Mathews

Game 1-UC Davis non-FBS - 11 for 106 1 TD

Game 2-Wisconsin 5th Run D - 19 for 107

Game 3-Boise State 28th Run D - 19 for 234 3 TDs

Game 4-Cincinatti 61st Run D - 38 for 145 1 TD

Game 5-hawaii 107th Run D - 24 for 149 1 TD

Game 6-San Jose State 119th Run D - 20 for 233 1 TD

Game 7-New Mexico State 114th Run D - 25 for 157 2 TDs

Game 8-Utah State 110th Run D - 23 for 185 2 TDs

Game 9-Idaho 77th Run D - 26 for 143 3 TDs

Game 10-Nevada 22nd Run D - 8 for 32 (got injured in the 2nd quarter)

Game 11-Did not play

Game 12-Illinois 76th Run D - 32 for 173 3 TDs

Game 13-Wyoming 93rd Run D - 31 for 144 2 TDs

So he faced the 5th, 22nd, 28th, 61st, 76th, 77th, 93rd, 107th, 110th, 114th, 119th, and a non-FBS school.

Spiller faced better run defenses...but its not by THAT much.

The weird thing I see there is one RB that had a few good games....while the other showed up every game(outside of being injured).

Then you said "But they were the weakiest of the weak, we've already looked at that."

This is your comeback to one RB producing and one not? Spiller only had 4 100 yard games his SR year...while Mathews had 11. Despite facing just slightly easier run defenses.

-I was wrong about the age(its one of the few stats I haven't looked up)....I assumed b/c Matt is a JR and CJ is SR...I thought he was older.

-Comparing him to James Davis...simply shows that another RB put up numbers at Clemson and it wasn't THAT SPECIAL.

-The CLEAR difference between the two is that Davis's numbers took a nose dive from his junior yr as CJ4 numbers went to Jupiter.(direct quote from you)

Spiller

FR-129 for 938 7.3 10

SO-145 for 768 5.3 3

JR-116 for 629 5.4 7

SR-216 for 1212 5.6 12

Mathews #'s weren't Jupiter(whatever context you mean that)

FR-145 for 866 6.0 14

SO-113 for 606 5.4 6

JR-276 for 1808 6.6 19

-Comparing him to McFadden shows that speed(and his combine 40 time) aren't everything that matters at the next level.

-Level of Competition

Along with that is Spiller has better talent around him as well....don't you agree? Mathews is more of a marked man in Fresno...its a disadvantage to not have a better QB or a WR running a 4.3.

The argument goes both ways....discounting it is ignorant.

 

[Hendo]

im so hoping this kid is at my 1.02 pick....

reminds me nothing of Forte, unless were talking about Forte with better vision, more power and def. more speed

i tell you what i'd rather have him over Moreno who has a much blander skill set imo who people still think is going to be elite (maybe good but i dont see elite)

 

[Raiders]

BIG TEX, you say that his numbers come in garbage time??? Did you ever actually watch any of his games?

(Matthews) Leads the NCAA in rushing by more than 25 yards per game (161.6 yards per game)... has two of the Top 10 rushing games in the NCAA this season, 234 yards against No. 5 Boise State and San Jose State, those games rank third and fourth in Bulldog history, respectively... against the Broncos he score on runs of 69, 68 and 60 yards and a averaged 12.3 yards per carry... leads the NCAA win seven runs of 50-yards or more (69, 68, 68, 60, 59, 58, 55).... set a school record with seven straight 100-yard plus games... had 104 yards in the first half against UC Davis in the season opener and never played in the second half... had a career-high 38 carries for 145 yards against No. 7 Cincinnati... only played two plays in the fourth quarter in the last three games combined, both against New Mexico State in a 157-yard two touchdown performance... didn't play in the fourth quarter at Hawaii or San Jose State in Fresno State's large wins

SO to sum it up: He had a combined total of only 2 carries in the fourth quarter in 6 of his 12 games and he still led the nation in rushing! Please tell me again how he was getting all of those yards in garbage time???

 

[ConstruxBoy]

A) Again, how does he get no respect?

B) Why do the Mathews supporters act like such tools? Tone it down a bit guys.