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Saving the PSF - How can we, as a community, make this place better (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Koya
- Start date
skol asylum
Footballguy
Sort of but not exactly. Empathy is the ability to understand and share one's feelings. You don't have to share their feelings to understand where they might have come from. Sorry to nitpick. Hope that makes sense.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
To be fair, people on the left label themselves as having empathy a lot when what they really have is at best sympathy and maybe just a rational understanding. It’s a tough loop when the argument starts.
squistion
Footballguy
I don't agree. I understand what their thinking was, but that still in no way justifies them committing a terrorist act, or that in any way I have empathy towards them doing that.
To use an historical example, I understand the Nazi rational behind The Final Solution, that doesn't mean I have an iota of empathy for their actions resulting in the Holocaust.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I believe you are correct partially. I believe their reasons are many, including they hate us for our freedom, as well as our lifestyle and culture.
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skol asylum
Footballguy
em·pa·thy
/ˈempəTHē/
noun
the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.
/ˈempəTHē/
noun
the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.
The Commish
Footballguy
It's mostly religion based if we are being honest. Their hostility towards the US is not unique....you can go back centuries before the US even existed to see the same behavior towards other groups/countries that didn't share their beliefs. However, there is no question the US has absolutely thrown gas on the fire with policy choices.
timschochet
Footballguy
When my daughters were younger they often each offered this explanation for poor behavior against each other. I’m sure I don’t have to tell you what my response was.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I believe they hate us because we bomb them silly and take their sides and then betray them while living in a protected society. The freedom, culture, etc are secondary to the other part; we don’t do what we do in the Middle East out of necessity, we’re already living high on the hog.
If a boss cut our salary by 75% to boost earnings, we’d be pissed. If he did it after he already socked away a billion dollars, we would be extra pissed. But we don’t hate him for being a billionaire, it’s for the salary cut.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Widbil83
Footballguy
Great post Jon, and thanks for tagging me. Myself and all the other people you mentioned are absolutely treated like second class citizens here for our opinions. Even worse, we are constantly reported on and banned for the smallest infractions. Meanwhile we see posters on the other side post things about the President that could be worthy of a secret service call. They may get a slap on the wrist, but they are back here the next week.jon_mx said:
The good news is we don’t have to post here if we don’t want to. Like you mentioned, even Joe said his friends won’t post here because of the hostile environment. I could probably rattle off (most people could I’m sure) close to a dozen posters on this board who are in the same boat, you couldn’t pay them to post in this section of the board.
I have an in-season self ban in place from the PSF and my fantasy teams are absolutely kicking ###. I come in to get a good healthy laugh at the anti-Trump hysteria of the day and throw hearts and likes to my Trump brethren from time to time, but that’s it for me in this part of the board. I think a few of you guys should follow suit, especially if your fantasy teams are struggling. Don’t let politics rob you of your fantasy joy, spend your precious free time on that instead. See you guys after the season!
squistion
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Just in terms of the thread title, maybe this is something people should consider. Just help the guy out. He's got his name on it. The @'ing of him to resolve disputes is ridiculous, if only you think of being called in to see two grown men disputing the use of the word 'lying'. It has to be strange. But he feels the need I'm sure and respectfully to mother the board, and yet I'm sure Joe would rather be watching the So. WR4 for Michigan today (just as an example) so he can chart if they make for a good 1st round rookie draft FF selection when their time comes. Lol think of being at work on Saturday and your wife calls you to come home mediate a dispute between your two teenage sons.jon_mx said:
I think part of the problem is that this current age is one in which information and misinformation/disinformation are so deadly serious. Information is power these days and it seems like everyone has a stake in their little corner and maybe they do, but you also have to prioritize people and their lives and know that comes first. If you can't think of your own idiomatic handle's reputation, and if you can't think of the feelings of the person you're responding to, maybe think of Joe.
skol asylum
Footballguy
Maybe like the NFL gives 3 challenges to each team, each poster can only use the report button 3 times a year. Frankly, that seems like too much even.
Koya
Footballguy
Please show objective sourcing as to where BLM defended and protested for cop killers? That said, BLM is a movement, but not some organization... there will be a range of ideals, ideologies, and behaviors, not all of which may be agreeable.
In terms of Muslim ideology fosters terrorism, how is this more true than Christianity (or any number of religions)? Christianity has been used from everything from waging war, to ethnic cleansing, to any number of ill means and ends. Heck, the Macabees of Jewish lore (we have an entire holiday to celebrate their efforts) could be construed as terrorists as much as they could be considered warriors.
That is not to say that there are strong factions that utilize a certain perspective of Muslim thought and ideology to create a fervor that results in terrorism, but to say Muslim idelogy does it is not more or less correct, in historic terms, than to say Christianity fosters terrorism (or a number of other things... religion is fraught with twisted interpretations that lead to evildoing)
KCitons
Footballguy
I politely disagree. I'm not a Trump supporter and I'm not a Dem supporter. I am a supporter of facts and my own opinions. I've had long disagreements with many posters in the gun thread. The NK thread. The government shutdown thread. The border wall thread. And the tariffs thread. Most of my opinions were a wait and see stance. Others refuted that because they felt that the facts were enough for them to make an opinion strongly opposing mine. My stance has moved some on each of those issues. Others not so much.
I was swimming upstream most of the time. I didn't attack the other posters with personal comments. I stated my stance each time. I never received a timeout or a warning. I wasn't looking to curb stomp someone with my posts. I was merely trying to give the opposing viewpoint. I don't feel like a second class citizen. I'm not even sure how that can be felt on an internet message board? But, mostly it's because I'm not a second class citizen. It was posted in the gun thread that gun owners have blood on their hands. I don't believe this, so it doesn't effect me. I don't let other people have the power over my self worth. It speaks to the mental fortitude that many have here that they either need to control others, or be controlled by others due to a few digital words. Move on. Be confident in your own purpose.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
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The Commish
Footballguy
Is there a snowball's chance in hell to get people to agree to use the #1 box on the media bias chart to back up their points? Meaning, using reasonable, well documented "relatively neutral" sites as sources? People love to say "oh, you just can't handle an opposing view" nonsense when the opposing view is literally something akin to 2+2=5. Sources are a significant part of that. I'm guilty of it. I dont take anything seriously that comes from fox, breitbart, msnbc, (occasionally I'll click a CNN link), info wars, daily beast, intercept etc. I see those sorts of sites and I don't even bother to click. IMO, if you can't find a basis of support in that number 1 box, you're doing it wrong. Now...flame away 
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Don’t take anything personally, address anyone personally, go to a personal level, get involved personally, personally oversee anything, have a personally involved discussion, or personally think that anyone is being personal, or for that matter personnel.
Nothing personal, of course.
Nothing personal, of course.
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
This place is getting stranger every day and it started off as a sub-sub-forum of a fantasy football chat room which is like a 9.75/10 on the weird scale.
The Commish
Footballguy
I appreciate that people are simply asking for support to arguments, but that's where this is headed isn't it? People say something unsubstantiated, they are asked for more info on why they think that or believe it to be true and crickets...right? It's either going to be that or people ignoring the attempt to change and trying to shut things down under the guise of "its never going to happen so why bother" or a combo of both.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
That's why the tone of this board isn't going to change. Joe just needs to decide if he's going to tolerate it or not.
Someone posts their opinion of something. Someone wants a link. They either don't get the link thinking their opinion of the situation is good enough to post. Or they post a link and then people criticize the source. It's a never ending argument with no real positive outcome.
Instead of asking for links, might be better to ask thought provoking questions determining why someone thinks what they think. We also know other than a handful of posters that's unlikely to happen.
The Commish
Footballguy
We just had a perfectly fine discussion in the whistleblower thread between a bunch of us and jon showing that it's relatively easy to change the tone...even JohnnyU was part of it. If it doesn't change it's not because it can't change. And to be honest, the venn diagram of those who want to see it blow up and those who just post without support has a pretty significant overlap. And I try to do what you suggest but for some posters it simply doesn't matter...those people I simply ignore and move on now. That's my plan anyway....working thus far.
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Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Oh I'm sure you'll be fine. But there's so many guys (on both sides) that are so hell bent on winning and playing gotcha that it's a long shot for the board to adopt overall. But the link thing and then arguing over what's a valid link/source is a losing battle.
The Commish
Footballguy
Don't disagree even though it would help immensely. Thought I'd throw it out there. Will be interesting to see the quantity who actually want to change things. You may be right.
KCitons
Footballguy
@The Commish How do you suggest handling things in the gun thread? There are people that have a personal connection to gun violence..I expect them to have an emotional response to any pro gun argument. You can't remove that emotion through adult conversation. I've taking my lumps in that thread for posting facts around how the stats break down and the effects each proposed regulation would have or not have. It didn't change the personal attacks. Some which carried over to other threads about completely different topics.
I genuinely appreciate your input on how to handle these types of conflicts that posters might find themselves in. From both sides.
I genuinely appreciate your input on how to handle these types of conflicts that posters might find themselves in. From both sides.
It is quite easy really. Just don't poke at people. If you disagree or think they are wrong, just say so. There is no need to call them liars or demand sources. If I see something I don't believe, I Google it myself. Often times I see different sources which provides more information and can either agree or disagree or add to their characterization.
The Commish
Footballguy
That thing is a trainwreck...I don't see any good coming of it primarily because of the composition of the participants. With a few exceptions there are a lot of the problem posters (as I see them) and I haven't checked in to that thread and seen an honest discussion in months...though I don't go in there all that often. When I do it's literally the same exact things being said. All that can be done is focus on the potential solutions and ignore the people who have no interest in that discussion...that's the best I've got
KCitons
Footballguy
Thanks. I know you haven't been posting in that thread for some time. From the beginning I've tried to suggest solutions. But, inevitably, there would be another mass shooting and the traffic would increase 10 fold. Bringing with it posters that haven't read the suggestions or just want a target to vent at.That thing is a trainwreck...I don't see any good coming of it primarily because of the composition of the participants. With a few exceptions there are a lot of the problem posters (as I see them) and I haven't checked in to that thread and seen an honest discussion in months...though I don't go in there all that often. When I do it's literally the same exact things being said. All that can be done is focus on the potential solutions and ignore the people who have no interest in that discussion...that's the best I've got
It's a no win situation. Which is why I've reduced my posting there over the last month or so.
Thanks for the posts here. There's been some good stuff.
I'm committed this weekend but will look more next week. Doing something fun - I'm in Nashville officiating a friend's wedding tomorrow. I little nervous though.
Still pretty bummed about PSF but I appreciate those that have made an effort to talk about it.
I'm committed this weekend but will look more next week. Doing something fun - I'm in Nashville officiating a friend's wedding tomorrow. I little nervous though.
Still pretty bummed about PSF but I appreciate those that have made an effort to talk about it.
sho nuff
Footballguy
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
Jokes at the groom’s expense and wrap with some anecdotes about love and you are all good! Good luck.
Gopher State
Footballguy
Enjoy the wedding. You have a great business here, but tough decision does the PSF fit your business model. I love your football content, but the PSF not so much.
The General
Footballguy
Gopher State
Footballguy
Well the PSF represents football guys, the content in the PSF is basically approved/monitored by FBG’S, if you owned FBG’S would you approve of the comments being made in the PSF? I mean FBG’S is a site about football, not snarky political comments, how much money is made on the PSF vs football? I don’t think their making money on the PSF, but maybe charging a fee to post on the PSF would be an option. Would it make sence to charge for posting on the PSF, due to the extra costs to monitor and control it?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Maybe I am out of the loop, but how exactly do you officiate a wedding?
jamny
Footballguy
I think most opinions have been noted and some fixes have been mentioned. I think we need to form a list of rules and I hope that Joe will not make any decision on the future of the PSF until December 31st. If we haven't shown marked improvement by then, well...do what you will.
Post a rule suggestion:
Monitor your own. - If someone on "your side" of the argument posts something that crosses the line and is not helping the discussion, point it out to them. Being a "board cop" is more effective if it is coming from someone of the same opinion.
Post a rule suggestion:
Monitor your own. - If someone on "your side" of the argument posts something that crosses the line and is not helping the discussion, point it out to them. Being a "board cop" is more effective if it is coming from someone of the same opinion.
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The General
Footballguy
I was reacting to your original post where you said you like the site but not the PSF so it would make sense to not use it and just ignore it.
Those are all good questions. I don’t really know about the business side of the forum I would think it’s not generating much money though. It is an added benefit and traffic but yeah the moderation has to be a PITA. I only really participate lightly in another forum, it’s more nuts and bolts sports stuff and they heavily moderate it, just delete posts that aren’t on topic. Kind of boring. This place does a great job curating.
I’d wish people wouldn’t report stuff but then it turns messy. Personally I’d probably ban people for a month or so that I was tired of dealing with. Not perfect but gets takes them out of commission. I definitely wouldn’t want to deal with this. The mods are saints in my book.
We’ll see what comes of this. Real shame if it goes away. Seems crazy that it couldn’t just go on as is with some bannings but as you mentioned it’s a pain for them to deal with and if I understand Joe he feels like the problem is more that it’s just a depressing display of humanity in here. Ouch.
Anyways hope it makes the cut. Only can talk about so many new diets and TV shows in the main forum.
The General
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
If people think I’m being a #### they are welcome to call me out.
Maybe I’ll agree if I don’t I’ll respond to what they are saying with non jerk answer.
jamny
Footballguy
Post a rule suggestion:
Use the ignore feature
I don't have anyone on ignore but I have also never reported anyone. If you find yourself reporting someone, maybe think about putting them on ignore instead. Do this for the sake of the board. Many of us don't want this board to go away so maybe do it for everyone else.
Use the ignore feature
I don't have anyone on ignore but I have also never reported anyone. If you find yourself reporting someone, maybe think about putting them on ignore instead. Do this for the sake of the board. Many of us don't want this board to go away so maybe do it for everyone else.
