Scott Walker WI governor vs the Packers & teachers (1 Viewer)

[Sabertooth]

Why doesn't Walker attempt to crush the police and fireman Union?

 

[MaxThreshold]

Why doesn't Walker attempt to crush the police and fireman Union?

Most likely because he needed them to control the unruly mobs that attacked and damaged the State capitol during the ACT 10 debate. It got pretty bad for a bit, including some death threats to Walker and some of the Senators.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Why doesn't Walker attempt to crush the police and fireman Union?

Just curious - is there a difference in the pension costs to the state? We have had a succession of Democratic, liberal mayors in NO who have constantly resisted paying legally owed pensions to firemen especially.

 

[Rayderr]

I thought teachers' salaries were still covered under collective bargaining with Act 10, and that it was the tenure and seniority that was eliminated? If so, what does that have to do with a lot of the complaints? And why are people upset that it's now possible to get rid of the bad teachers?

Nothing wrong with being able to get rid of bad teachers, but you could do that before, just needed to do the work to document it...

Act 10 eliminated bargaining for salaries. I believe also eliminated bargaining for working conditions. Basically made it worthless to give your money to the union as there is little they can do for you.

Yeah, I seem to recall the procedures to fire a teacher in "Waiting For Superman" Basically, along the lines of giving the teacher a warning, then having someone (i.e. the principal) sit in the class room and if that person continued to see the infraction 3 more times during the semester, the teacher could be fired.

Also from "Waiting For Superman" was the case in Wisconsin (i believe) of a teacher who was caught on video giving a student a swirlie (yes, putting the kids head in the toilet and flushing it.) The superintendent fired the teacher on the spot. Union sued and won getting the teacher reinstated because it didn't go through the ridiculous firing process. The union also got a middle school teacher reinstated who was caught surfing porn on school computers.

So, um yeah, I'm all for making it easier to fire POS teachers like those.

 

[MaxThreshold]

I thought teachers' salaries were still covered under collective bargaining with Act 10, and that it was the tenure and seniority that was eliminated? If so, what does that have to do with a lot of the complaints? And why are people upset that it's now possible to get rid of the bad teachers?

Nothing wrong with being able to get rid of bad teachers, but you could do that before, just needed to do the work to document it...

Act 10 eliminated bargaining for salaries. I believe also eliminated bargaining for working conditions. Basically made it worthless to give your money to the union as there is little they can do for you.

Yeah, I seem to recall the procedures to fire a teacher in "Waiting For Superman" Basically, along the lines of giving the teacher a warning, then having someone (i.e. the principal) sit in the class room and if that person continued to see the infraction 3 more times during the semester, the teacher could be fired.

Also from "Waiting For Superman" was the case in Wisconsin (i believe) of a teacher who was caught on video giving a student a swirlie (yes, putting the kids head in the toilet and flushing it.) The superintendent fired the teacher on the spot. Union sued and won getting the teacher reinstated because it didn't go through the ridiculous firing process. The union also got a middle school teacher reinstated who was caught surfing porn on school teachers.

So, um yeah, I'm all for making it easier to fire POS teachers like those.

Yep.

Just saying "you could of get rid of bad teachers before" is NO WHERE NEAR AS EASY as they are making it sound. There were so many hoops to jump thru that most districts just gave up trying to get rid of them.

A teacher would literally have to be caught red-handed murdering a child in the classroom before they could be let go (I'm exaggerating but you get the point).

 

[TobiasFunke]

Fiscal responsibility!

It's those darn teachers that are the problem, though.

 

[Mario Kart]

Fiscal responsibility!

It's those darn teachers that are the problem, though.

I have to laugh at the first sentence because the Marquette Interchange sucks donkey balls. Milwaukee should be 4 lanes all around the darn city and the Marquette Interchange is 2 lanes and that is after the reconstruction. The city is repaving the bridges from the Mitchell to the Marquette but that whole road should be expanded to four lanes but they are redoing the bridges to fit four lanes.

Scott Walker hasn't helped much but Tom Barrett sucks just as much. Get rid of some crappy trolley and redo the main highway system... that is what brings in jobs and economic progress.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Fiscal responsibility!

It's those darn teachers that are the problem, though.

I have to laugh at the first sentence because the Marquette Interchange sucks donkey balls. Milwaukee should be 4 lanes all around the darn city and the Marquette Interchange is 2 lanes and that is after the reconstruction. The city is repaving the bridges from the Mitchell to the Marquette but that whole road should be expanded to four lanes but they are redoing the bridges to fit four lanes.

Scott Walker hasn't helped much but Tom Barrett sucks just as much. Get rid of some crappy trolley and redo the main highway system... that is what brings in jobs and economic progress.

Sure, that's what you see in all the big vibrant cities with healthy economies- ever-expanding highway systems with no mass transit whatsoever.

Anyway, I could debate sprawl all day- starting of course with the now well-established fact that expanding highways does not ease congestion- but the more relevant point here w/r/t Walker is that he suddenly doesn't seem so concerned with fiscal responsibility when it comes to helping mostly white suburbanites shave a few minutes off their commutes:

To critics, the reimagined interchange seems oddly lavish, as if money were no object when it comes to saving a few minutes of drive time for commuters from the so-called WOW counties west of Milwaukee—Waukesha, Ozaukee, and Washington, some of America’s whitest and most Republican suburbs. Daniel Riemer, a young Democratic state representative from Milwaukee, contrasted the $250 million that Walker’s budget slashed from the University of Wisconsin—where Riemer graduated from law school in 2013—with its jacked-up funding for megaprojects like the Zoo.

“Everywhere else, it’s tighten our belt, tighten our belt,” said Riemer, whose father David was a longtime aide to Mayor Norquist, and later lost a race to Walker for county executive. “If there’s a backlog for an English class at UW, they’ll say: Suck it up. They won’t rush and hire a new teacher. But if there’s a seven-minute delay on the freeway, whoa, they’ve got to build a bigger freeway, spare no expense.”

For decades, state transportation officials have warned that Milwaukee-area congestion could reach Chicago-level standstills, but it hasn’t happened. In my three days here, I encountered something resembling a traffic jam only once, when I had to slow down to 20 miles per hour for a lane closure on I-94 at morning rush hour. Some locals call it “rush minute.” The Milwaukee metropolitan area is ranked 39th nationally in population, but according to one 2012 study, it has only the 63rd-worst commute.

Last year, at the governor’s request, Walker’s transportation secretary had proposed a new financing plan for the construction frenzy, including $750 million in new state taxes and fees. But as Walker began preparing his presidential campaign, he suddenly rejected his own administration’s plan, insisting he would not raise one nickel of new revenue, proposing instead to borrow $1.3 billion by floating new bonds. That’s when Republican leaders, feeling heat from debt-averse conservative groups like Americans for Prosperity, finally balked. State interest payments had already quadrupled to 18 cents on every transportation dollar since 2000, and Walker’s plan would have boosted that to 25 cents. They said that if Walker wouldn’t raise taxes, they would rein in his spending—and since local roads in rural communities were already feeling the pinch, the freeways around Milwaukee would have to take a hit as well.

“We’re already borrowing way too much money, and we’ve got unmet needs all over Wisconsin,” Speaker Vos told me. “The feeling was, we can’t just fund one part of the state while there’s a severe drought everywhere else.”

 

[cr8f]

Wow, this one's still going. I moved to MN, hate watching what this guy is doing to my home state. He moved the sec of state to an office in the basement and harassed Tia Nelson until she quit.

This guy is like George W Bush revisited, abusing people that disagree with him.

But look at the state next door and see what is working.

The states are so similar you can get a good picture of what ideology is more effective.

Add to that he added all of his mouthpieces to the UW and will lose many professors because of tenure. Many got offers from other schools already.

In 2012 the UW professors got 3 times the WI GDP in grant money. Many professors there do research more than teach. What will happen if just 1/3 of that money leaves?

The state ranks near or at the bottom of business friendly states and jobs in the midwest, but they want to cut taxes even more.

It's not working, but they keep cutting millions from public schools only to give that same money to charters. In many rural counties that's devastating.

Look at Kansas schools having to close the school year early because there's no money.

Trickle down does not work.

 

[Mario Kart]

Tobias are you familiar with the Milwaukee freeway system? I ask because I don't know if you are. I'm reading the article now and I think it misses the point a little bit. I'm not backing up Walker here either however the freeway system is outdated big time. The current roads were finished in the 60's give or take. Long overdue especially the Zoo interchange being talked about in the article.

Its not about "saving time" but the thing was dangerous and crazy. One turn off to go West towards Madison had a 90 degree turn where you had to slow down to 35mph on the freeway to make it. Crazy! There were also dangerous swerves where there didn't need to be any.

I'm not backing up the 1.7 billion cause I can't recall what the alternatives were but to say that this is construction to fix 5-7 minutes for suburbanites is not all that accurate. This will help commercial commuters which, I don't think, is taken into consideration because the semi's would cause issues especially on the 90 degree turn.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Its a difficult issue for him as he looks to his new federal endeavor. The road builder lobby is the most powerful in the state, as any state legislator will tell you, and Walker has been very good for them. If only there had been a way to buy "Wisconsin Road Builder" stock 5 years ago ...

Its a known boondoggle in Milwaukee and across the state, and likely one of the main reasons our former mayor left town. Looking at the monstrosity they are building directly through the third ward is painful. Imagine if you owned one of the condos, office buildings or restaurants near the Public Market where that new spur is going in? Thankfully, I'm able to bike to work most of the year and can almost completely avoid the freeways and particularly the Marquette interchange.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Tobias are you familiar with the Milwaukee freeway system? I ask because I don't know if you are. I'm reading the article now and I think it misses the point a little bit. I'm not backing up Walker here either however the freeway system is outdated big time. The current roads were finished in the 60's give or take. Long overdue especially the Zoo interchange being talked about in the article.

Its not about "saving time" but the thing was dangerous and crazy. One turn off to go West towards Madison had a 90 degree turn where you had to slow down to 35mph on the freeway to make it. Crazy! There were also dangerous swerves where there didn't need to be any.

I'm not backing up the 1.7 billion cause I can't recall what the alternatives were but to say that this is construction to fix 5-7 minutes for suburbanites is not all that accurate. This will help commercial commuters which, I don't think, is taken into consideration because the semi's would cause issues especially on the 90 degree turn.

No, I'm not familiar at all. I've only been to Milwaukee twice.

I would think changes for safety purposes like the one you highlight would come under repairs rather than expansions, though. The article actually says money for repairs is being diverted for expansion projects- that's one of the criticisms:

I got a firsthand look at the consequences in Wisconsin, where snazzy megaprojects crowd out basic repairs, and politicians lavish attention on big highways at the expense of local roads and public transit. The anti-sprawl group Smart Growth American found that from 2009 to 2011, Wisconsin spent only 39 percent of its highway dollars on maintenance, versus 61 percent on new highway capacity that added to its maintenance backlog. As the state has shifted resources into freeway megaprojects, 71 percent of its roads are in mediocre or poor condition, according to federal data.

 

[Mario Kart]

Tobias, no repairs would have fixed the issues I briefly outlined. I really can't do a good job of explaining the turns. Coming from the south to go west... 90 degrees with more of a turn than the following... coming from the west to go south... 90 degrees but a much smaller area to turn. Both had a "bridge" with both of them and a "repair" would not have fixed the sharp turn.

http://onmilwaukee.com//images/articles/as/askomczoointerchange/askomczoointerchange_fullsize_story1.jpg

That is the old system. The turns I describe are on the bottom of the picture. The turn nearest the bottom of the picture is not a part of the system but from west to south is the road right above that road. The turn from south to west is that pink section near the middle of the picture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKryL9HqKfk

Right away when the video starts is an "exact" same picture as the old picture above. The west-south turn is moved left/north from Madison and is moved left/east going south... meaning the turn is much wider and two lanes instead of one. Similar change to the other turn... it is moved much further right/east from the south and moved much further right/north going towards Madison... meaning a much bigger turn radius. The center of the system is much straighter than the other and much safer.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Tobias, no repairs would have fixed the issues I briefly outlined. I really can't do a good job of explaining the turns. Coming from the south to go west... 90 degrees with more of a turn than the following... coming from the west to go south... 90 degrees but a much smaller area to turn. Both had a "bridge" with both of them and a "repair" would not have fixed the sharp turn.

http://onmilwaukee.com//images/articles/as/askomczoointerchange/askomczoointerchange_fullsize_story1.jpg

That is the old system. The turns I describe are on the bottom of the picture. The turn nearest the bottom of the picture is not a part of the system but from west to south is the road right above that road. The turn from south to west is that pink section near the middle of the picture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKryL9HqKfk

Right away when the video starts is an "exact" same picture as the old picture above. The west-south turn is moved left/north from Madison and is moved left/east going south... meaning the turn is much wider and two lanes instead of one. Similar change to the other turn... it is moved much further right/east from the south and moved much further right/north going towards Madison... meaning a much bigger turn radius. The center of the system is much straighter than the other and much safer.

Appreciate the local perspective, Mario. Wouldn't that still come under "maintenance"? Either way, I can see why that particular project would be a priority.

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Wow, this one's still going. I moved to MN,

So you never made it to Canada?

 

[Rayderr]

Wow, this one's still going. I moved to MN,

So you never made it to Canada?

Maybe he meant Manitoba?

 

[Mario Kart]

Tobias, no repairs would have fixed the issues I briefly outlined. I really can't do a good job of explaining the turns. Coming from the south to go west... 90 degrees with more of a turn than the following... coming from the west to go south... 90 degrees but a much smaller area to turn. Both had a "bridge" with both of them and a "repair" would not have fixed the sharp turn.

http://onmilwaukee.com//images/articles/as/askomczoointerchange/askomczoointerchange_fullsize_story1.jpg

That is the old system. The turns I describe are on the bottom of the picture. The turn nearest the bottom of the picture is not a part of the system but from west to south is the road right above that road. The turn from south to west is that pink section near the middle of the picture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKryL9HqKfk

Right away when the video starts is an "exact" same picture as the old picture above. The west-south turn is moved left/north from Madison and is moved left/east going south... meaning the turn is much wider and two lanes instead of one. Similar change to the other turn... it is moved much further right/east from the south and moved much further right/north going towards Madison... meaning a much bigger turn radius. The center of the system is much straighter than the other and much safer.

Appreciate the local perspective, Mario. Wouldn't that still come under "maintenance"? Either way, I can see why that particular project would be a priority.

I wouldn't call it "maintenance" because they are overhauling the whole interchange. The old system, I'll try to do this with numbers to visualize it better, but the old system in the interchange went like this:

1w... 2n... 3n... 4e and now those lanes will look like this... 1n... 2n... 3n... 4w... 5w... 6e

Also, the biggest improvement that was not mentioned in the article nor did I mention it before but the old system had a decision time of approximately half a mile. You could get from the far right to the far left in that short distance which was dangerous. The new system is now 1.5 mile decision distance. Meaning the traffic going north has to decide to go north and once you're in that 3 lane north section... you are going north. There is no swerving over or anything. Similarly if you are going west or east you are in those lanes accordingly for that distance. The one entrance ramp in the old system where you could swerve all the over is still capable of going west but you only have to move over one lane instead of three to turn west.

Yes, it is a first rate free way interchange but versus what it was it will be much better for everyone. I think the other project mentioned in the article, 850 million for the 3.5 mile stretch, can be maintained. That doesn't need to be redone right away although it does need to get redone in the near future but I don't like the "accepted" proposal.

 

[Mario Kart]

Also, we have had three interchange overhauls this century... the Zoo being the final one. They screwed up the Marquette meaning they didn't make it better at all. The redid the Mitchell pretty good and the Zoo is going to be pretty good. The Mitchell and Zoo are very similar in their idea and makeup.

But, Milwaukee has bigger issues... we have a lion roaming the city. https://gma.yahoo.com/possible-lion-spotted-roaming-streets-milwaukee-111512776--abc-news-topstories.html

 

[jonessed]

That's all good but why not include police and fire? Makes no sense other than because it wouldn't pass. Include everyone or find a way to do it. Why pick and choose? There are personal reasons from Walker and the assembly but personal reasons should not be a factor. Too bad that is what politics has come to.

About teachers complaining. I don't think that is true at all. Many teachers need to be vocal because, like it or not, we deal with many issues that many people don't even want to think about. Many issues that people want to sweep under the rug rather than attempt to fix. Most times the people complaining about teachers complaining are individuals who are looking to sweep things under the rug. The stories I can tell about a number of students and what their lives are like, most wouldn't believe yet if I tried discussing helping those students, people would tell me I'm complaining about my job. That was a busy sentence.

The last couple years I have spent over $500 of my money to bring in supplies for my students. This is not a complaint however how many professions have individuals doing this? I don't need to be commended for doing this however do not tell me I'm complaining about my profession when I simply explain a fact. In a similar breath, I spend time with students to talk or have them talk with me about some crazy issues. Again, not a complaint but how many professions will "give up" their own time to connect with another human being?

Whatever your or others reactions are to the above, don't see them as complaints about my profession. However, you do need to realize that everyday I go to work, I impact the lives of many kids. I'm not just a teacher in the classroom. Unlike an accountant, or a stock broker, or a carpenter, or a plumber. Other professions are not called on to do the things many teachers often do.

Unfortunately, the Wisconsin assembly and many citizens do not value or don't even want to realize the value that many teachers bring into school each day. The lives affected of our youth each and every day. By not supporting teachers, students, and the like will disable our community, our country, and our future. Maybe a little bit of a red herring but if people do not want to recognize that education is the foundation to a strong country... well, that sucks.

I don't believe these things are really that unique to teachers.

 

[Rayderr]

Tobias, no repairs would have fixed the issues I briefly outlined. I really can't do a good job of explaining the turns. Coming from the south to go west... 90 degrees with more of a turn than the following... coming from the west to go south... 90 degrees but a much smaller area to turn. Both had a "bridge" with both of them and a "repair" would not have fixed the sharp turn.

http://onmilwaukee.com//images/articles/as/askomczoointerchange/askomczoointerchange_fullsize_story1.jpg

That is the old system. The turns I describe are on the bottom of the picture. The turn nearest the bottom of the picture is not a part of the system but from west to south is the road right above that road. The turn from south to west is that pink section near the middle of the picture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKryL9HqKfk

Right away when the video starts is an "exact" same picture as the old picture above. The west-south turn is moved left/north from Madison and is moved left/east going south... meaning the turn is much wider and two lanes instead of one. Similar change to the other turn... it is moved much further right/east from the south and moved much further right/north going towards Madison... meaning a much bigger turn radius. The center of the system is much straighter than the other and much safer.

Appreciate the local perspective, Mario. Wouldn't that still come under "maintenance"? Either way, I can see why that particular project would be a priority.

Think the Mixing Bowl project on the Capitol beltway from a few years back. Would you consider that maintenance or expansion? And much like the WI project, the mixing bowl project was much more about safety than saving time on commutes.

 

[The Kerminator]

Fiscal responsibility!

It's those darn teachers that are the problem, though.

I have to laugh at the first sentence because the Marquette Interchange sucks donkey balls. Milwaukee should be 4 lanes all around the darn city and the Marquette Interchange is 2 lanes and that is after the reconstruction. The city is repaving the bridges from the Mitchell to the Marquette but that whole road should be expanded to four lanes but they are redoing the bridges to fit four lanes.

Scott Walker hasn't helped much but Tom Barrett sucks just as much. Get rid of some crappy trolley and redo the main highway system... that is what brings in jobs and economic progress.

Sure, that's what you see in all the big vibrant cities with healthy economies- ever-expanding highway systems with no mass transit whatsoever.

Anyway, I could debate sprawl all day- starting of course with the now well-established fact that expanding highways does not ease congestion- but the more relevant point here w/r/t Walker is that he suddenly doesn't seem so concerned with fiscal responsibility when it comes to helping mostly white suburbanites shave a few minutes off their commutes:

To critics, the reimagined interchange seems oddly lavish, as if money were no object when it comes to saving a few minutes of drive time for commuters from the so-called WOW counties west of Milwaukee—Waukesha, Ozaukee, and Washington, some of America’s whitest and most Republican suburbs. Daniel Riemer, a young Democratic state representative from Milwaukee, contrasted the $250 million that Walker’s budget slashed from the University of Wisconsin—where Riemer graduated from law school in 2013—with its jacked-up funding for megaprojects like the Zoo.

“Everywhere else, it’s tighten our belt, tighten our belt,” said Riemer, whose father David was a longtime aide to Mayor Norquist, and later lost a race to Walker for county executive. “If there’s a backlog for an English class at UW, they’ll say: Suck it up. They won’t rush and hire a new teacher. But if there’s a seven-minute delay on the freeway, whoa, they’ve got to build a bigger freeway, spare no expense.”

For decades, state transportation officials have warned that Milwaukee-area congestion could reach Chicago-level standstills, but it hasn’t happened. In my three days here, I encountered something resembling a traffic jam only once, when I had to slow down to 20 miles per hour for a lane closure on I-94 at morning rush hour. Some locals call it “rush minute.” The Milwaukee metropolitan area is ranked 39th nationally in population, but according to one 2012 study, it has only the 63rd-worst commute.

Last year, at the governor’s request, Walker’s transportation secretary had proposed a new financing plan for the construction frenzy, including $750 million in new state taxes and fees. But as Walker began preparing his presidential campaign, he suddenly rejected his own administration’s plan, insisting he would not raise one nickel of new revenue, proposing instead to borrow $1.3 billion by floating new bonds. That’s when Republican leaders, feeling heat from debt-averse conservative groups like Americans for Prosperity, finally balked. State interest payments had already quadrupled to 18 cents on every transportation dollar since 2000, and Walker’s plan would have boosted that to 25 cents. They said that if Walker wouldn’t raise taxes, they would rein in his spending—and since local roads in rural communities were already feeling the pinch, the freeways around Milwaukee would have to take a hit as well.

“We’re already borrowing way too much money, and we’ve got unmet needs all over Wisconsin,” Speaker Vos told me. “The feeling was, we can’t just fund one part of the state while there’s a severe drought everywhere else.”

Is this a quote from the article? You would think they could check their facts. Ozaukee County is directly north of Milwaukee. Washington County is northwest of Milwaukee.

 

[Stinger Ray]

at Tobias trying to call the major construction going on in Milwaukee as maintenance. Anyone that has driven there in the last 18 months that has seen what is going on and what lies ahead would know better.

 

[MaxThreshold]

Wow, this one's still going. I moved to MN, hate watching what this guy is doing to my home state. He moved the sec of state to an office in the basement and harassed Tia Nelson until she quit.

This guy is like George W Bush revisited, abusing people that disagree with him.

But look at the state next door and see what is working.

The states are so similar you can get a good picture of what ideology is more effective.

Add to that he added all of his mouthpieces to the UW and will lose many professors because of tenure. Many got offers from other schools already.

In 2012 the UW professors got 3 times the WI GDP in grant money. Many professors there do research more than teach. What will happen if just 1/3 of that money leaves?

The state ranks near or at the bottom of business friendly states and jobs in the midwest, but they want to cut taxes even more.

It's not working, but they keep cutting millions from public schools only to give that same money to charters. In many rural counties that's devastating.

Look at Kansas schools having to close the school year early because there's no money.

Trickle down does not work.

You're just making #### up as you go along, aren't you?

Maybe once in a while you should think for yourself instead of spouting old, tired and false talking points from your far left sources.

I'm a bit disappointed you didn't move to Canada like you said you would.

 

[MaxThreshold]

at Tobias trying to call the major construction going on in Milwaukee as maintenance. Anyone that has driven there in the last 18 months that has seen what is going on and what lies ahead would know better.

but he's been to Milwaukee TWICE!

 

[Mario Kart]

Who works for who here?

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/robin-vos-pushed-for-open-records-overhaul-records-show-b99543456z1-318294111.html

Madison— State documents show Gov. Scott Walker's administration contends it doesn't have to release some internal discussions on four key issues even though the White House hopeful has said trying to rewrite the open records law to allow holding back documents in such cases was a "huge mistake."

According to newly released documents, the Republican governor's office and his Department of Administration in May issued a dozen letters to news organizations and others denying access to records because they claimed doing so could inhibit the free exchange of ideas. State law does not explicitly recognize that as a reason for withholding records.

In the following weeks, aides to Walker — who is now running for president — worked with GOP lawmakers to try to rewrite the law so they could use that rationale for keeping the public from learning about internal deliberations.

At the same time, Republican legislators were drafting a measure that would keep the open records law from applying to them in the vast majority of cases. Those provisions were requested by Assembly Speaker Robin Vos (R-Rochester), files released this week show.

Administration records have been withheld because they included internal deliberations 12 times, according to newly released records. Most of them related to a provision of the state budget that would have removed from the mission statement of the state university system the Wisconsin Idea, the venerable notion that says the university's aim is to improve the lives of people in all corners of the state.

But three other sets of records are being held back on the same grounds. One deals with emails to or from then-Administration Secretary Mike Huebsch regarding the state Department of Public Instruction. Another deals with a proposal to change how property assessments are done. And the last relates to the Walker administration's attempt to make changes to the long-term care program known as IRIS, which stands for Include, Respect, I Self-Direct.

Walker said the change to the Wisconsin Idea was included in his original version of the state budget because of a miscommunication within his office. He dropped the proposal soon after it became public.

State officials released hundreds of pages of records related to that matter to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and others, but held back some documents that "consist of preliminary analysis and deliberations" regarding the state budget.

"Making these internal discussions just as open to disclosure as the final version of the budget would inhibit the free exchange of ideas, opinions, proposals and recommendations among those involved in deciding what to include in the final legislation," administration counsel Gregory Murray wrote in a letter to the Journal Sentinel.

Identical language was used in letters sent to others denying them access to records. Among those receiving the letters were the Wisconsin State Journal, The Associated Press and George Zaske, a River Falls attorney who sought records about the long-term care program because his son has a disability.

In all cases, the administration released some — often many — records while withholding others. Zaske said he was frustrated because in his case he received only a few emails and got no real understanding of why the governor wanted to restructure the IRIS program.

Two months after they denied access to the records, Walker and GOP lawmakers tried to gut the open records law. They gave up the idea within two days of the Legislature's budget committee approving it, and Walker soon afterward said the move was a "huge mistake."

But his office and administration are continuing to withhold records by claiming they don't have to release documents that are deliberative in nature. The Department of Administration has withheld records this year eight times for that reason and the governor's office has done so four times, according to a review of denial letters by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

The liberal Center for Media and Democracy and the Progressive magazine have sued Walker, arguing that's not a valid reason for keeping records from the public.

In a statement Thursday, Walker spokeswoman Laurel Patrick said state law allowed the administration to withhold the records. Administration lawyers have not yet filed responses to the lawsuit spelling out their legal arguments, she noted.

"We have been and will continue fulfilling open records requests pursuant to current law, as we always have," her statement said.

Eleven of the 12 record denials were made on May 8, the new documents show. The 12th was issued a week later, on May 14.

Administration spokesman Cullen Werwie didn't say why so many were issued the same day, other than to say the administration responds to records requests as soon as possible.

Brendan Fischer, counsel for the Center for Media and Democracy, said the timing was "telling."

"It seems it was a well-considered strategy to avoid scrutiny of the way the Walker administration came up with the budget," Fischer said.

'Draft requester'Vos asked for a major portion of the failed overhaul of open records law. He is called the "draft requester" of the budget amendment in a June 29 email from Legislative Reference Bureau attorney Michael Gallagher.

The Vos email directly links the Assembly speaker to the so-called legislative privilege portion of the open records changes. The GOP plan would have dramatically limited public records requests for lawmakers' communications with their staffs and for drafting records of legislation after it's been introduced. The measure also would have given lawmakers a broad legal privilege allowing them to refrain from releasing records when they were sued and bar their current and former staff from disclosing information legislators wanted kept private.

No other state provides such an expansive legal privilege for lawmakers, according to the Legislative Reference Bureau.

The email was released by Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau) in response to open records requests from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and other media organizations.

But Fitzgerald on Thursday didn't lay responsibility on Vos. He repeated that his office was involved in and backed the proposal, which was supported by all 12 Republicans on the Legislature's Joint Finance Committee.

"In the budget, everything is collaborative," Fitzgerald said, noting that without leaders in both houses agreeing, nothing gets done. "We knew what they were doing."

Vos was traveling Thursday and unavailable. His spokeswoman, Kit Beyer, issued a statement saying at the time of the email, GOP lawmakers were focused on "returning legislative powers ceded to the executive branch, and the idea that the Legislature should be able to set its own common sense policies on open records and retention of drafting files."

Other provisions were later added and the end result was "a collaborative effort by the Senate, the Assembly, and the governor's office," her statement said. Walker's office and Fitzgerald have agreed with that assessment.

Republican leaders quickly backed away from the changes in the wake of public outrage.

Many of the documents released recently by legislators are from people around the state expressing anger over the attempted changes the records law on July 2.

"I am not a liberal by any stretch of the imagination," Jim Stroschein of Mineral Point wrote to Fitzgerald in an email sent on July 4. "I voted for Ronald Reagan twice and Tommy Thompson four times. Your attempts to limit access to public records are deeply disappointing and the Joint Finance Committee's vote ... qualifies as the most disturbing action I have ever seen in Wisconsin politics."

Tom Varney wrote Rep. Amy Loudenbeck (R-Clinton) on July 4 to express his frustration that she had voted for the measure in committee in the middle of the night just before the holiday.

"You don't deserve to celebrate our freedom when you're working hard to take it away," he wrote.

Jason Stein of the Journal Sentinel staff contributed to this report.

 

[Mario Kart]

http://news.yahoo.com/ap-exclusive-gops-walker-proposes-vast-union-restrictions-040129104--finance.html

Pandering or just bat-####-crazy?

 

[Sabertooth]

Why didn't Walker go after the police and fire unions I wonder?

 

[Mr.Pack]

http://news.yahoo.com/ap-exclusive-gops-walker-proposes-vast-union-restrictions-040129104--finance.html

Pandering or just bat-####-crazy?

I'll take bat#### crazy for $100 Alex

BTW nice seeing you Saturday.

 

[Mario Kart]

I happened to catch the Sean Hannity radio show tonight for about ten minutes. Some things are fascinating to hear, they really are. A female caller starts talking about the upcoming Speaker of the House vote and offered her two best options for the position. She sounded like she was in her mid 40's, not young but not elderly either. She gave the first name with a description why and then the second name. I was shocked at her suggestions but also shocked at how Hannity responded.

Her choices were:

1. Scott Walker

2. Rick Santorum

Hannity didn't even tell her they couldn't be Speaker of the House. He gave props to each person about their accomplishments but didn't even explain why they can't be Speaker of the House right now, in theory. I was amazed by the lack of knowledge or supposed lack of knowledge. Then, I think, Hannity started talking about Life Lock so all was well.

 

[Underachievers]

Love Walker. The fact that he pisses off the liberal snobs in the Madison area is just a bonus.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I happened to catch the Sean Hannity radio show tonight for about ten minutes. Some things are fascinating to hear, they really are. A female caller starts talking about the upcoming Speaker of the House vote and offered her two best options for the position. She sounded like she was in her mid 40's, not young but not elderly either. She gave the first name with a description why and then the second name. I was shocked at her suggestions but also shocked at how Hannity responded.

Her choices were:

1. Scott Walker

2. Rick Santorum

Hannity didn't even tell her they couldn't be Speaker of the House. He gave props to each person about their accomplishments but didn't even explain why they can't be Speaker of the House right now, in theory. I was amazed by the lack of knowledge or supposed lack of knowledge. Then, I think, Hannity started talking about Life Lock so all was well.

. You may be the one with the lack of knowledge here.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

I happened to catch the Sean Hannity radio show tonight for about ten minutes. Some things are fascinating to hear, they really are. A female caller starts talking about the upcoming Speaker of the House vote and offered her two best options for the position. She sounded like she was in her mid 40's, not young but not elderly either. She gave the first name with a description why and then the second name. I was shocked at her suggestions but also shocked at how Hannity responded.

Her choices were:

1. Scott Walker

2. Rick Santorum

Hannity didn't even tell her they couldn't be Speaker of the House. He gave props to each person about their accomplishments but didn't even explain why they can't be Speaker of the House right now, in theory. I was amazed by the lack of knowledge or supposed lack of knowledge. Then, I think, Hannity started talking about Life Lock so all was well.

. You may be the one with the lack of knowledge here.

Newt Gingrich likes this

 

[Mario Kart]

I happened to catch the Sean Hannity radio show tonight for about ten minutes. Some things are fascinating to hear, they really are. A female caller starts talking about the upcoming Speaker of the House vote and offered her two best options for the position. She sounded like she was in her mid 40's, not young but not elderly either. She gave the first name with a description why and then the second name. I was shocked at her suggestions but also shocked at how Hannity responded.

Her choices were:

1. Scott Walker

2. Rick Santorum

Hannity didn't even tell her they couldn't be Speaker of the House. He gave props to each person about their accomplishments but didn't even explain why they can't be Speaker of the House right now, in theory. I was amazed by the lack of knowledge or supposed lack of knowledge. Then, I think, Hannity started talking about Life Lock so all was well.

. You may be the one with the lack of knowledge here.

So, you're saying Scott Walker or Rick Santorum could be the next Speaker in a month or so? Please explain how this might be possible. TIA

 

[Leviathan]

I happened to catch the Sean Hannity radio show tonight for about ten minutes. Some things are fascinating to hear, they really are. A female caller starts talking about the upcoming Speaker of the House vote and offered her two best options for the position. She sounded like she was in her mid 40's, not young but not elderly either. She gave the first name with a description why and then the second name. I was shocked at her suggestions but also shocked at how Hannity responded.

Her choices were:

1. Scott Walker

2. Rick Santorum

Hannity didn't even tell her they couldn't be Speaker of the House. He gave props to each person about their accomplishments but didn't even explain why they can't be Speaker of the House right now, in theory. I was amazed by the lack of knowledge or supposed lack of knowledge. Then, I think, Hannity started talking about Life Lock so all was well.

. You may be the one with the lack of knowledge here.

So, you're saying Scott Walker or Rick Santorum could be the next Speaker in a month or so? Please explain how this might be possible. TIA

The Speaker isn't required to be a current member of the House. That's how.

 

[Mario Kart]

I happened to catch the Sean Hannity radio show tonight for about ten minutes. Some things are fascinating to hear, they really are. A female caller starts talking about the upcoming Speaker of the House vote and offered her two best options for the position. She sounded like she was in her mid 40's, not young but not elderly either. She gave the first name with a description why and then the second name. I was shocked at her suggestions but also shocked at how Hannity responded.

Her choices were:

1. Scott Walker

2. Rick Santorum

Hannity didn't even tell her they couldn't be Speaker of the House. He gave props to each person about their accomplishments but didn't even explain why they can't be Speaker of the House right now, in theory. I was amazed by the lack of knowledge or supposed lack of knowledge. Then, I think, Hannity started talking about Life Lock so all was well.

. You may be the one with the lack of knowledge here.

So, you're saying Scott Walker or Rick Santorum could be the next Speaker in a month or so? Please explain how this might be possible. TIA

The Speaker isn't required to be a current member of the House. That's how.

And that has never happened before.

 

[Leviathan]

I happened to catch the Sean Hannity radio show tonight for about ten minutes. Some things are fascinating to hear, they really are. A female caller starts talking about the upcoming Speaker of the House vote and offered her two best options for the position. She sounded like she was in her mid 40's, not young but not elderly either. She gave the first name with a description why and then the second name. I was shocked at her suggestions but also shocked at how Hannity responded.

Her choices were:

1. Scott Walker

2. Rick Santorum

Hannity didn't even tell her they couldn't be Speaker of the House. He gave props to each person about their accomplishments but didn't even explain why they can't be Speaker of the House right now, in theory. I was amazed by the lack of knowledge or supposed lack of knowledge. Then, I think, Hannity started talking about Life Lock so all was well.

. You may be the one with the lack of knowledge here.

So, you're saying Scott Walker or Rick Santorum could be the next Speaker in a month or so? Please explain how this might be possible. TIA

The Speaker isn't required to be a current member of the House. That's how.

And that has never happened before.

Concur. Just explaing how it's feasible. Do you disagree?

 

[McJose]

Wisconsin gives hunting licenses to babies

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Why are these people mad? They lost some elections that allowed this to happen. Either get more votes, or move. There are 49 other states in this country.

100% agreed Clarence.

 

[TobiasFunke]

100% agreed Clarence. 

Good lord.

I considered going back through the thread about the tax bill and bumping posts about how it would help in the midterms, but I decided even that was too much effort.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Good lord.

I considered going back through the thread about the tax bill and bumping posts about how it would help in the midterms, but I decided even that was too much effort.

This should be an interesting thread to scan through. 

I think it maybe doesnt date back far enough though to paint full picture. 

 

[Fantasy_Freak]

Good bump, sucks when you read those old posts and the feelings fellow posters have regarding this issue.  the sadder part is we take money away from teachers and many other public sectors employees then give tax break handouts to the Foxconn's and Kimberly-Clark's of the state. 

 

[Ilov80s]

Good bump, sucks when you read those old posts and the feelings fellow posters have regarding this issue.  the sadder part is we take money away from teachers and many other public sectors employees then give tax break handouts to the Foxconn's and Kimberly-Clark's of the state. 

Yeah sounds like the Foxconn think was a major screwup. At least Walker and his GOP cohorts are going out with humility and class. 

This Paul Ryan era of GOP will likely go down as one of the biggest disasters in recent memory. Just an awful bunch. Too bad none of them were half as smart as they thought they were. 

 

[Fantasy_Freak]

Some farmers got rich, people were pushed out of their house, construction workers will make a killing all in the hopes that this fully develops.  In the area there is a some hand wringing with Foxconn announcing they are going to cut cots ($2.8B), then they may bring workers from the China for the higher paying jobs, that at the end of the day Wisconsin will not be made whole.

Walker should have this "scarlet letter" attached to his chest just as much as Ryan and the others, Walker was a key part of this deal as well committing Wisconsin money for this boondoggle.  If it develops into something nice I will take my words back but that will not be for a LONG time, may take upwards to 20-30 years before Wisconsin is made whole with this deal.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Yeah sounds like the Foxconn think was a major screwup. At least Walker and his GOP cohorts are going out with humility and class. 

This Paul Ryan era of GOP will likely go down as one of the biggest disasters in recent memory. Just an awful bunch. Too bad none of them were half as smart as they thought they were. 

Ryan recently said one of his greatest regrets is not doing more about the national debt.  None of the reports I read indicated he was laughing at the obvious intentional sarcasm of his comment, so I have to assume he presumably said this with a completely straight face.  I grew up in Wisconsin and remember it always being a state where we could be proud of our politicians - integrity, common sense, from both parties.  In just a few years, this group of charlatans and crooks has ruined that image forever. 

 

[Eephus]

Ryan recently said one of his greatest regrets is not doing more about the national debt.  None of the reports I read indicated he was laughing at the obvious intentional sarcasm of his comment, so I have to assume he presumably said this with a completely straight face.  I grew up in Wisconsin and remember it always being a state where we could be proud of our politicians - integrity, common sense, from both parties.  In just a few years, this group of charlatans and crooks has ruined that image forever. 

Bill Proxmire is spinning in his grave

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Bill Proxmire is spinning in his grave

No one was safe from his monthly Golden  Fleece award. One guy even tried to sue him. 

 

[SWC]

i miss that award and i also miss a time when people actually cared that it was handed out and reacted accordingly take that to the bank brohans 

 

[trader jake]

Yeah sounds like the Foxconn think was a major screwup. 

This week's 'Reply All' podcast breaks it down.  Wisconsin taxpayers will probably be taking a bath.

How often does a lack of transparency work out well for citizens?

 

[Fantasy_Freak]

This week's 'Reply All' podcast breaks it down.  Wisconsin taxpayers will probably be taking a bath.

How often does a lack of transparency work out well for citizens?

I have to listen to that podcast.  Foxconn is being built less than a mile from my house.  I see all the plans but I am very interested in the financial impact if this does not meet expectations.  For example, what if a majority of employees reside in Illinois, which is 15-20 miles form this location, payroll taxes would go to Illinois as opposed to Wisconsin.  Additionally, how will this monstrous campus impact my property value.  I'll have to listen to the podcast tonight.

 

[trader jake]

I have to listen to that podcast.  Foxconn is being built less than a mile from my house.  I see all the plans but I am very interested in the financial impact if this does not meet expectations.  For example, what if a majority of employees reside in Illinois, which is 15-20 miles form this location, payroll taxes would go to Illinois as opposed to Wisconsin.  Additionally, how will this monstrous campus impact my property value.  I'll have to listen to the podcast tonight.

The pod covers more how it happened and some of the players then the nitty gritty details.  The economic impact can probably be summed up with a sad emoji.  If/when the thing goes sideways the taxpayers will foot the bill.

States/municipalities are just held upside down and whatever area has the most money fall out of their pockets...they win?  Same thing with Amazon's HQ2 (&3), most sport franchise moves/new stadiums, and a thousand other examples.  Often the best move is to not play.