Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
Oh, man. What does HE have to do with this?
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SF signs Westbrook (1 Viewer)
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Wassup NBZ?
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
That's how good he is, he even takes touches from players on other teams in totally different divisions.. Now that's special!
fatmnkypants
Footballguy
Singletary made the statement that he made it clear to Westbrook that he was there to be ready when Gore needed a "blow".
'There would be times that Frank has to take a blow. At those times, I'd like you to be ready.' "
Who knows what Westbrook has left, but Gore loves to be fed the ball- so I think Westbrook will be just a typical fillin backup.
'There would be times that Frank has to take a blow. At those times, I'd like you to be ready.' "
Who knows what Westbrook has left, but Gore loves to be fed the ball- so I think Westbrook will be just a typical fillin backup.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
link please
fatmnkypants
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
someone is pretty worked up
Carolina Hustler 27 posts
Carolina Hustler 27 posts
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
From that article:
But there is still no clear answer or understanding of how the touches will be split or work out.All articles and quotes I've found say what we already know, that Frank Gore is the #1 RB. And pretty much that Westbrook is the #2. Nothing yet on how Westbrook will be used primarily or how many touches to expect. But the above quote would suggest that Westbrook will be used to moderate Gore's carries, keeping him fresh short term and healthy long term.
Fullback Fro
yesno
What part of the following do you not understand?
"I said, 'There would be times that Frank has to take a blow. At those times, I'd like you to be ready.' "
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...L#ixzz0wtOwBKgo
holy crap. before i thought you were delusional. turns out you're just dumb.
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Alfredo Garcia
Footballguy
Aren't you both making the assumption that it was Coffee in on 3rd and 15? Wouldn't in reality it have been Gore on 3rd/15, and now he's possibly lost the snap to Westbrook. And since Gore is so much more talented than Westy, there's a lower percentage that the 9ers convert, so Gore's percentage of getting that goal line TD dropped.
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Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Does that quote in any way say how many carries either back will be getting, and the quote I posted for you came from the very same article that your quote came from...Looks like to me, that those blows Gore will need might be coming with more frequency then you expect evidently according to the article and Singletary's quote
excerp from your article:
Singletary thinks Westbrook can teach Gore, 27, the wisdom of sharing the load for extended career's sake. Few backs play into their 30s without embracing the idea.
"Brian is at a place now where Frank is going," Singletary said. "I want (Gore) to understand we want to have him as long as we possibly can have him, and I want to take care of him."
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Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
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what are yours? you are emphatically and deliberately tweaking your debate every time someone rpesents new info that states westbrook is a depth signing and will have very little impact on gore. The article CLEARLY headlines with, Westbrook rushes in to lend depth to backfield. You keep saying that it doesnt prove his workload. HE IS A BACKUP THAT WILL GET BACKUP PLAYING TIME. holy dense batman.Amassing..you're still at it.. Armed still without merit but insults... sad
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
My stance has stayed constant
#1) I said it is possible for Westbrook to amass 60 rec this year
#2) I said it would be smart for the team to expand his role to something greater than Coffee's based on his greater skillset.
#3) I said it would be nice to see Westbrook used out of the slot
#4) I said I thought it would be reasonable for him to see around 8-10 touches a game
You only keep saying 2 things
#1) he's done
#2) he won't impact Gore's touches
In response, to my request for some shared logic in your thinking, you respond with no such thing but rather hostility... and of course these insults.
#1) He had more YPC last year then in his previous year, and not far off his career average
last year 4.5, career average 4.55.... doesn't look like he's done to me honestly. And his REC per game were relatively close as well...
#2) I've never said he was going to drastically impact Gore's touches. And it seems I'm not the only one that thinks Westbrook being there lightens the load for Gore. Read back through the thread... I honestly believe Gore continues to be a top 10 Fantasy RB for a few years..
Well, I guess with this last post you've really found some evidence, rather ignore the Quotes from Singltary in side the article but focus on the title... An article title... hmm... I guess that settles it then. We have an article title folks...
BTW, after this post I'm setting you on ignore, have a nice season. Your welcome for the perspective outside of your narrow minded fantasy needs...
O' and "holy dense batman" is probably the most cognitively impaired insult I've heard. What are you 16? You could have at least said "Holy Density Batman", but instead you called Batman dense and holy.. brilliant..
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OK, one poster suggests that Westy will AVERAGE as much as 15 touches per game. Another poster suggests that is too high and the expectation should be around 8 touches per game. You ask for the 8 touch per game guy to back up his claim (you didn't ask the same of the 15 touch per game guy).
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=12166735
You agree with the poster that suggests that those downplaying the Westbrook signing (by saying he is depth that won't average more than 10 touches a game?) are just "consoling each other by trying to convince themselves that the signing is meaningless".
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&p=12167284
It just seems you are talking out of both sides...wanting people to justify their expectations of fewer than 10 touches a game, while you claim the same expectation. There are only a few (one or two?) posters saying Westy will average more than 10 touches a game, yet you are arguing less with them and much more with those that project Westbrook to get about as many touches as your own projection. Maybe it is just perception, but you seem to be defending the idea that Westbrook is real threat to Gore (you've pointed out how he has effectively come back from injury in the past, you point out that his average per carry remained high last year, you've pointed out that his receptions per game average remained relatively steady in spite of injury, etc), while also suggesting he will only average 9 touches a game....numbers that don't worry Gore owners/supporters very much.
I'll give you this, you have effectively defended the idea that Westbrook is still a viable NFL rb when healthy. Maybe a couple of posters want to believe he is washed up and no more useful than Coffee was...but you are correct that, for as long as he is healthy, he has the ability to be productive.
Fullback Fro
yesno
#1) I think its possible for Westbrook to amass 60 receptions this year. I think it is likely will end up with around 35. #2) I agree#3) I agree#4) I think that is realistic but a little on the high side. 6-9 for me at this point. Maybe near the end of the season we may see more Brian, than the beginning. All these points do not contradict the fact that Westbrook's primary role will be that to spell Gore when he needs to take a rest. I suspect that Gore will be more likely to tap out now that there is a viable backup in place and due to the fact that it will be encouraged by Singletary. But with regards to Gore's fantasy value, I see no real hit here. My projections remain consistent pre-signing.
I am outta here.
5Rings
Lurker
5Rings
Lurker
You, sir, are a master
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Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
I'm puzzled here because the poster (Shader) never said the word "AVERAGE" yet you have it in all capital letters as if to make some bold statement or as if it were some key point in your argument. He also never said he "will" average a certain amount of touches. He said "can" which is a big difference. "Will" meaning definite, and "Can" meaning it's possible. And again you using the word average and claiming his projection was 15 touches, when he said "can get 8-10 carries and catch 4-5" which is a range of 12-15 in which the average would be 13.5, not your stated 15...So to that point you are over stating and exaggerating that posters position. Shader was only stating his opinion about what the possibilities were.latrops said:
On the other hand, Jade takes a more aggressive and bolder stance. "Westy wont be getting 15 touches per game. Not even close. try about 8 total on average per game for the year, maximum." First attacking Shaders stated opinion and implying his personal opinion but rather than proposing as opinion he states as if it were fact. As if he some how knows the future on the mater. How could he know what the maximum is, he can guess, or say "in my opinion" but he states it as if it's fact, as if Shader is silly for even considering an outside probability. He took a brazen and dogmatic approach that was unfriendly to the poster for which he was responding to.
In this instance you're understating the tone in Jades post and softening it using the words "Another poster suggests" when it wasn't a suggestion at all. And "should be" when what he said was "8 total" and "maximum"
Ultimately I thought Shader had a much more reasonable approach, stating his opinion and leaving open the possibility that he could be wrong. And Jade takes a more dogmatic and combative approach as if his opinion is definite and should be common knowledge. This is what sticks out to me more than the #'s. If he's going to be so adamant that his opinion is so much better than someone else's, he should #1 approach it with a little more diplomacy, and #2 Validate his opinion.
In this portion of your post you're projecting my stance on the statement towards a certain poster who provided the #'s you've listed above. I never said which posters I thought this statement should be applied to, neither did the other poster (Shader). So when you say I was aiming my agreement of that post at a poster who projected 10 touches, or Westbrook as depth, when nothing in my or Shaders post even remotely implied that, you're trying to put words in my mouth in order to make your point. My agreeing with Shader would more be a product of my disagreeing with the approach of several posters. Some being overly defensive, some adamant about something they couldn't possibly know....latrops said:
Well with the above analysis, seems your "talking out of both sides" statement has been rendered inapplicable... And now you're calling the guy you described above as the poster who said "should be around 8 touches" as a poster who said 10 touches... which is it?.. Don't claim I'm "talking out of both sides" when you're contradicting yourself...You've also implying that I'm suggesting Gore owners should be worried, when over and over again I've made it very clear that is not my stance.latrops said:
My differences with Jade are differences more with his approach, his in ability to see the possibility of anything outside of his prediction, and lack of validation. I never stood strong and hard against Gore being called depth, or the potential for him to get 8, 9, 10, touches per game. I merely suggested the possibilities outside of those predictions. No one can predict Westbrook's touches with any certainty, but Jade doesn't seem to think he can.
At least you agree with me on something... lollatrops said:
Really, you want to argue over whether someone meant 13.5 touches a game instead of 15....or 8 instead of 10...."can" instead of "will"? You want to continue this over 1.5 to 2 touches a game and verbiage?
I've made the points I wanted to make. I'm pretty well done with this thread. There are no absolutes, just educated guesses.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
20.07 tonight in US 10...certainly nothing to lose at that point in the draft.
Couch Potato
Footballguy
Hey jude, don't make it bad...jude said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
well that didnt take long.
SteelerMurf
Footballguy
It amazes me when people get all worked up when a coach says another RB will help with the load. That is the case on every NFL team. If it wasn't Westy it would have been Coffee and still can be Dixon.Westy can't stay healthy for a fraction of a game....I really wonder how he even makes the team.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
plenty of players pulling and injuring things, not just westbrook.. it's an epidemic and some of them are just getting out of preseason work...
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Care to elaborate? Or should I just get you a link to KFFL?
redBourne
Footballguy
I agree with the Hustler on this last piece only. Did you really think Westy wouldn't live on the injury report anyway? He's been there for the last 4+ years. I expect this all season, where he's questionable with a hammy, soreness with his neck, whatever and 8/10 he's gonna play anyway. The fact is many players right now are experiencing soreness from the heat and practice. Not that much to worry about.
However, Westbrook cutting into Gore's touches isn't much for Gore owners to worry about either.
However, Westbrook cutting into Gore's touches isn't much for Gore owners to worry about either.
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Snotbubbles
Footballguy
There's a link that says Westbrook is faking his injury to get out of preseason work?Carolina Hustler said:
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Did I say Westbrook was faking to get out of work? He is one of MANY players on the injury report, him being on the injury report for a pulled hammy is irrelevant at this point, until there is more information, I'll assume he's going to be ready for the first reg season game, like most of the other high profile players who are banged up right now...
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
With a 5.4 average last year, his ability to catch balls, and with as often as Gore is banged up, I'd say he's draft-able as a handcuff in deep roster PPR leagues at least. I'm not predicting Gore will be injured, but with as many times as he's played injured and been infective, you'd think the Niners would want to limit the chance of having an injured Gore, or shorten his recovery times buy giving him a break when he's banged up, something they have never had the luxury of being able to do in the past..
NajehHejan
Footballguy
Haven't heard much at all about Westbrook lately. With the season about to begin, do any homers have any insight on where Westbrook stands with the team?
Has he practiced at all? If so, how has he looked?
Will he be part of the game plans at all?
Rotoworld lists him as the #3 back behind Dixon who is #2. Is this true?
Has he practiced at all? If so, how has he looked?
Will he be part of the game plans at all?
Rotoworld lists him as the #3 back behind Dixon who is #2. Is this true?
Scooby1974
Footballguy
By the looks of preseason, Dixon and not Westbrook would be the primary horse in the running game if Gore was injured. I think Westy is insurance and is in on the occasional 3rd down and 2 back sets.
thehornet
Footballguy
he isnt the handcuff, but sure draft him.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Certainly looks like Dixon is the handcuff after his pre-season work.
I still think the 9er's should limit Gores carries more than they have in the past. Whether it be with Dixon or Westbrook..
Not much out there in the way of Westbrook news right now, I suspect we won't here much if anything about him until/unless Gore gets banged up.
thehornet
Footballguy
for an all purpose back, the niners have done an excellent job limiting his workload over the past 4 years....in fact, each year, his workload has decreased.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
That may be true, but it still seems like he plays banged up for a portion of the season every year and still carries a full load. His production may fall a bit but he's usually still in there...
He's certainly tough though, one of the more durable in my opinion.
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