Shaub and Burner Turner (1 Viewer)

[Kiddnets]

I agree with the comparisons to Lamont - but keep in mind - Jordan had a very good year before this last train wreck - and I don't blame him for 2006. Shell was a disaster and between no QB, terible OL , awful OC and injuries - 2006 was a mulligan in my eyes.

As a Jet fan I'm actually hoping that Oak cuts Lamont and we can grab him for cheap without giving up a draft pick. I still think Lamont has a lot in the tank. I actually grabbed him in my keeper league for peanuts.

 

[zamboni]

It's Interesting how the Turner and Jordan situations parallel each other in more ways than one.

Before Jordan left, the Raiders were almost immediately rumored to be a destination well before the signing, given Jordan's ties with RB coach Jimmy Raye. Now you have an-ex Chargers' coach in Brian Schottenheimer, who has up-close-and-personal ties with Turner.

As we've said ad nauseum, Turner's RFA status makes it a more challenging situation to replicate (Jordan was an UFA), but sometimes where there's smoke, there's fire.

 

[Banger]

Does anyone know what the contract amount the 26th pick in the 1st was paid last year? It was John McCargo selected by Buffalo but I couldn't find contract details. I'm curious to see what the difference would be contract wise between selecting the 26th pick and giving him a contract as opposed the hypothetical scenario where the Jets give SD their 1st rounder and sign Turner to a $30 mill/6 year contract with a $10 mill signing bonus.

Also, wouldn't the price tag for Turner conceivably go up if he's a UFA as opposed to an RFA since he will obviously have more suitors as a UFA? You may not have to give up the draft pick but you may have to give up more cash.

ETA...I think the estimated contract numbers being thrown around are way too high considering what a back in a similar situation signed for last year, Chester Taylor. Chester had been a career backup with fairly good numbers (and about double Turner's workload) hit free agency and signed a 4 year $14.1 mill deal with $5.6 mill guaranteed which equates to $3.5 mill/year. I'd expect a contract more similar to this than the $10 mill guaranteed/$30 mill overall contract that's been thrown around. Curious to see the money difference between the 26th draft position and the Chester contract....

 

[massraider]

Does anyone know what the contract amount the 26th pick in the 1st was paid last year? It was John McCargo selected by Buffalo but I couldn't find contract details. I'm curious to see what the difference would be contract wise between selecting the 26th pick and giving him a contract as opposed the hypothetical scenario where the Jets give SD their 1st rounder and sign Turner to a $30 mill/6 year contract with a $10 mill signing bonus.

His deal would be significanly more, total-wise, and per-year-wise. And in the salary cap era, that's a big deal. It's why successful teams hang on to their draft picks. Because you can get decent production for a bargain price. A better comparison might be what Maroney's cap number is for the next few years vs. what Turner may cost. Would a team be better off with Turner at that price, or Maroney at his price? Worth considering.

Also, wouldn't the price tag for Turner conceivably go up if he's a UFA as opposed to an RFA since he will obviously have more suitors as a UFA? You may not have to give up the draft pick but you may have to give up more cash.

True, but if you trade for a RFA, there's no guarantee he'll be there next year. So they'd have to negotiate a deal anyway. Signing him this year as opposed to next year would definitely be cheaper. But if I'm Turner, I'm not handing out discounts either. I know that if a team doesn't agree to a deal with me, as a RFA, the deal probably won't happen. And I can sit behind Tomlinson another year, not exposing myself to 250 carries, and still look good. Then be a UFA, and get paid.

 

[Banger]

Does anyone know what the contract amount the 26th pick in the 1st was paid last year? It was John McCargo selected by Buffalo but I couldn't find contract details. I'm curious to see what the difference would be contract wise between selecting the 26th pick and giving him a contract as opposed the hypothetical scenario where the Jets give SD their 1st rounder and sign Turner to a $30 mill/6 year contract with a $10 mill signing bonus.

His deal would be significanly more, total-wise, and per-year-wise. And in the salary cap era, that's a big deal. It's why successful teams hang on to their draft picks. Because you can get decent production for a bargain price. A better comparison might be what Maroney's cap number is for the next few years vs. what Turner may cost. Would a team be better off with Turner at that price, or Maroney at his price? Worth considering.

Also, wouldn't the price tag for Turner conceivably go up if he's a UFA as opposed to an RFA since he will obviously have more suitors as a UFA? You may not have to give up the draft pick but you may have to give up more cash.

True, but if you trade for a RFA, there's no guarantee he'll be there next year. So they'd have to negotiate a deal anyway. Signing him this year as opposed to next year would definitely be cheaper. But if I'm Turner, I'm not handing out discounts either. I know that if a team doesn't agree to a deal with me, as a RFA, the deal probably won't happen. And I can sit behind Tomlinson another year, not exposing myself to 250 carries, and still look good. Then be a UFA, and get paid.

I editted my initial post to add in this... think the estimated contract numbers being thrown around are way too high considering what a back in a similar situation signed for last year, Chester Taylor. Chester had been a career backup with fairly good numbers (and about double Turner's workload) hit free agency and signed a 4 year $14.1 mill deal with $5.6 mill guaranteed which equates to $3.5 mill/year. I'd expect a contract more similar to this than the $10 mill guaranteed/$30 mill overall contract that's been thrown around. Curious to see the money difference between the 26th draft position and the Chester contract....I don't see why he would get much more money than Taylor did considering Taylor was a UFA and he's an RFA.

 

[massraider]

I editted my initial post to add in this... think the estimated contract numbers being thrown around are way too high considering what a back in a similar situation signed for last year, Chester Taylor. Chester had been a career backup with fairly good numbers (and about double Turner's workload) hit free agency and signed a 4 year $14.1 mill deal with $5.6 mill guaranteed which equates to $3.5 mill/year. I'd expect a contract more similar to this than the $10 mill guaranteed/$30 mill overall contract that's been thrown around. Curious to see the money difference between the 26th draft position and the Chester contract....I don't see why he would get much more money than Taylor did considering Taylor was a UFA and he's an RFA.

I'd guess he'd be held in higher regard than Taylor, but you're right, a UFA has a lot more leverage than a RFA.

 

[zamboni]

Does anyone know what the contract amount the 26th pick in the 1st was paid last year? It was John McCargo selected by Buffalo but I couldn't find contract details. I'm curious to see what the difference would be contract wise between selecting the 26th pick and giving him a contract as opposed the hypothetical scenario where the Jets give SD their 1st rounder and sign Turner to a $30 mill/6 year contract with a $10 mill signing bonus.

His deal would be significanly more, total-wise, and per-year-wise. And in the salary cap era, that's a big deal. It's why successful teams hang on to their draft picks. Because you can get decent production for a bargain price. A better comparison might be what Maroney's cap number is for the next few years vs. what Turner may cost. Would a team be better off with Turner at that price, or Maroney at his price? Worth considering.

Also, wouldn't the price tag for Turner conceivably go up if he's a UFA as opposed to an RFA since he will obviously have more suitors as a UFA? You may not have to give up the draft pick but you may have to give up more cash.

True, but if you trade for a RFA, there's no guarantee he'll be there next year. So they'd have to negotiate a deal anyway. Signing him this year as opposed to next year would definitely be cheaper. But if I'm Turner, I'm not handing out discounts either. I know that if a team doesn't agree to a deal with me, as a RFA, the deal probably won't happen. And I can sit behind Tomlinson another year, not exposing myself to 250 carries, and still look good. Then be a UFA, and get paid.

I editted my initial post to add in this... think the estimated contract numbers being thrown around are way too high considering what a back in a similar situation signed for last year, Chester Taylor. Chester had been a career backup with fairly good numbers (and about double Turner's workload) hit free agency and signed a 4 year $14.1 mill deal with $5.6 mill guaranteed which equates to $3.5 mill/year. I'd expect a contract more similar to this than the $10 mill guaranteed/$30 mill overall contract that's been thrown around. Curious to see the money difference between the 26th draft position and the Chester contract....I don't see why he would get much more money than Taylor did considering Taylor was a UFA and he's an RFA.

I agree that Taylor is a better barometer of a potential contract. We look at Jordan's numbers, but keep in mind that was Al Davis, who has no bones about overpaying for players he wants (see Moss, Porter).

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

As far as AJ is concerned I've read nearly every Charger related article that I've come across and haven't read anything about him being on the hot seat but whatever.

AJ Smith probably has better job security than any GM this side of Jerry Jones.

 

[diesel7982]

I agree with the comparisons to Lamont - but keep in mind - Jordan had a very good year before this last train wreck - and I don't blame him for 2006. Shell was a disaster and between no QB, terible OL , awful OC and injuries - 2006 was a mulligan in my eyes.

As a Jet fan I'm actually hoping that Oak cuts Lamont and we can grab him for cheap without giving up a draft pick. I still think Lamont has a lot in the tank. I actually grabbed him in my keeper league for peanuts.

Jordan's 2005 was pretty awful. I think any intelligent Raiders fan (there has to be at least one) will agree with that.

FF =/= real life. (I about to just put this in my sig)

 

[diesel7982]

As far as AJ is concerned I've read nearly every Charger related article that I've come across and haven't read anything about him being on the hot seat but whatever.

AJ Smith probably has better job security than any GM this side of Jerry Jones.

I guess maybe if you disregard everything that has happened between he and Schotty and Spanos...sure.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I agree with the comparisons to Lamont - but keep in mind - Jordan had a very good year before this last train wreck - and I don't blame him for 2006. Shell was a disaster and between no QB, terible OL , awful OC and injuries - 2006 was a mulligan in my eyes.

As a Jet fan I'm actually hoping that Oak cuts Lamont and we can grab him for cheap without giving up a draft pick. I still think Lamont has a lot in the tank. I actually grabbed him in my keeper league for peanuts.

Jordan's 2005 was pretty awful. I think any intelligent Raiders fan (there has to be at least one) will agree with that.

FF =/= real life. (I about to just put this in my sig)

What was his 2005 awful?And I already have put it in my sig. It's a good idea.

 

[massraider]

I agree with the comparisons to Lamont - but keep in mind - Jordan had a very good year before this last train wreck - and I don't blame him for 2006. Shell was a disaster and between no QB, terible OL , awful OC and injuries - 2006 was a mulligan in my eyes.

As a Jet fan I'm actually hoping that Oak cuts Lamont and we can grab him for cheap without giving up a draft pick. I still think Lamont has a lot in the tank. I actually grabbed him in my keeper league for peanuts.

Jordan's 2005 was pretty awful. I think any intelligent Raiders fan (there has to be at least one) will agree with that.

FF =/= real life. (I about to just put this in my sig)

What was his 2005 awful?

Not sure if I would say awful, but I wouldn't say wonderful.Caught a lot of balls, but dropped a lot too.

Got some yards, but probably cost the team some as well. He's a big dude with good speed, but he would often think he was Barry Sanders back there, stopping and starting in the backfield, looking for that big hole, to break that big run. Should have slammed it up in there a lot more.

Speaking strictly about 2005, BTW.

If we were discussing 2006, I'd mention my perception that he was lacking, conditioning-wise.

 

[Banger]

As far as AJ is concerned I've read nearly every Charger related article that I've come across and haven't read anything about him being on the hot seat but whatever.

AJ Smith probably has better job security than any GM this side of Jerry Jones.

That was my impression as well. Based on how he's built the team through the draft it's well deserved. Was surprised to hear Diesel say he was on the hot seat.

 

[zamboni]

I agree with the comparisons to Lamont - but keep in mind - Jordan had a very good year before this last train wreck - and I don't blame him for 2006. Shell was a disaster and between no QB, terible OL , awful OC and injuries - 2006 was a mulligan in my eyes.

As a Jet fan I'm actually hoping that Oak cuts Lamont and we can grab him for cheap without giving up a draft pick. I still think Lamont has a lot in the tank. I actually grabbed him in my keeper league for peanuts.

Jordan's 2005 was pretty awful. I think any intelligent Raiders fan (there has to be at least one) will agree with that.

FF =/= real life. (I about to just put this in my sig)

What was his 2005 awful?

Not sure if I would say awful, but I wouldn't say wonderful.Caught a lot of balls, but dropped a lot too.

Got some yards, but probably cost the team some as well. He's a big dude with good speed, but he would often think he was Barry Sanders back there, stopping and starting in the backfield, looking for that big hole, to break that big run. Should have slammed it up in there a lot more.

Speaking strictly about 2005, BTW.

If we were discussing 2006, I'd mention my perception that he was lacking, conditioning-wise.

Not to mention his well-below 4.0 YPC (I think 3.6 or something) in 2005. Granted, the OL was bad, but I think it's widely viewed that he was somewhat of a disappointment in '05 despite his solid fantasy stats.

 

[Gr00vus]

As far as AJ is concerned I've read nearly every Charger related article that I've come across and haven't read anything about him being on the hot seat but whatever.

AJ Smith probably has better job security than any GM this side of Jerry Jones.

I guess maybe if you disregard everything that has happened between he and Schotty and Spanos...sure.

Spanos and Smith are on the same page though they quibble on occasion, it's nothing serious. Marty is on thin ice with both Spanos and Smith. The only way A.J. leaves is if he wants to.Re: Turner - again there just isn't much history to suggest teams will give up a 1st round pick for a vet running back. I think Banger's right that he wouldn't get offered much more than Chester Taylor money. I think the Chargers should deal him next year if they can get a 2nd round pick along with some later round picks and/or players, not only for their own roster but also to be able to place Turner on a team that's not a direct competitor.

 

[kensat30]

I think one close example is that of Billy Volek and the Titans. There was a time when Billy Volek was regarded as highly as Matt Shaub - the Titans refused to trade him, held on to him, and then traded him finally last season for peanuts.If they had traded him at his peak value, they probably could've gotten a 1st round pick, IMO. What good did it do them for holding on so long?

If Volek was let go at peak value, Vince Young would not be their QB of the present/future right now.

 

[diesel7982]

As far as AJ is concerned I've read nearly every Charger related article that I've come across and haven't read anything about him being on the hot seat but whatever.

AJ Smith probably has better job security than any GM this side of Jerry Jones.

I guess maybe if you disregard everything that has happened between he and Schotty and Spanos...sure.

Spanos and Smith are on the same page though they quibble on occasion, it's nothing serious. Marty is on thin ice with both Spanos and Smith. The only way A.J. leaves is if he wants to.

Re: Turner - again there just isn't much history to suggest teams will give up a 1st round pick for a vet running back. I think Banger's right that he wouldn't get offered much more than Chester Taylor money. I think the Chargers should deal him next year if they can get a 2nd round pick along with some later round picks and/or players, not only for their own roster but also to be able to place Turner on a team that's not a direct competitor.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that bolded part.As far as what type of money Turner would recieve, if a team trades a 1st rounder for him, you can bet he'll get 20-30% over Lamont Jordan money. The Chester Taylor comparison isnt really accurate, as Taylor wasnt even a highly sought after FA, while Turner (in this scenario) will be hot enough for a team to give up a first round draft pick for him.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

1 down, 1 to go.

 

[Gr00vus]

Spanos and Smith are on the same page though they quibble on occasion, it's nothing serious. Marty is on thin ice with both Spanos and Smith. The only way A.J. leaves is if he wants to.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that bolded part.

Thanks for the bump Bloom!

 

[Despyzer]

Spanos and Smith are on the same page though they quibble on occasion, it's nothing serious. Marty is on thin ice with both Spanos and Smith. The only way A.J. leaves is if he wants to.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that bolded part.

Thanks for the bump Bloom!

I noticed that too.