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So, Tebow... (1 Viewer)

Here's all you need to know.

Denver got Peyton so they trade Tebow. That's not an indictment of Tebow as all but a select few teams would have the same scenario happen.

Rex Ryan is a joke. The most overrated coach in the league. He's made mistake after mistake as a coach with personnel decisions being at the top of that list. Why should we accept him not starting Tebow as a good decision? Why isn't it considered another terrible decision by a pompous egomaniac?

The bottom line is the guy wins wherever he plays. Is he a special type of QB who is raw as they come as a passer? Sure. Is he a winner? Yes. Is he light years ahead of where he was when he entered the league as a thrower? Absolutely. Someone will take a chance on him next year and will reap the rewards. To expect the dysfunctional locker room in NY to accomplish that is laughable. They don't see to have the environment to continue development on a QB. Sanchez and Tebow are perfect examples of that.

 
'doowain said:
Here's all you need to know.

Denver got Peyton so they trade Tebow. That's not an indictment of Tebow as all but a select few teams would have the same scenario happen.

Rex Ryan is a joke. The most overrated coach in the league. He's made mistake after mistake as a coach with personnel decisions being at the top of that list. Why should we accept him not starting Tebow as a good decision? Why isn't it considered another terrible decision by a pompous egomaniac?

The bottom line is the guy wins wherever he plays. Is he a special type of QB who is raw as they come as a passer? Sure. Is he a winner? Yes. Is he light years ahead of where he was when he entered the league as a thrower? Absolutely. Someone will take a chance on him next year and will reap the rewards. To expect the dysfunctional locker room in NY to accomplish that is laughable. They don't see to have the environment to continue development on a QB. Sanchez and Tebow are perfect examples of that.
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I don't disagree with much of what you said except the bolded. How is he any better as a passer, let alone "light years" better?
 
'doowain said:
The bottom line is the guy wins wherever he plays.
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He played in New York but didn't win there.He also played in Denver in 2010 but didn't win there either.Basically, your sample size consists of 12 games in 2011 plus 4 years of college. In other words, it's meaningless."Gino Torretta won wherever he played!!!" :lol:
 
'Buffaloes said:
BTW, Tebow had the exact same record over the last 5 games of the season as the Orton-led Broncos had over the 1st 5 games of the season...1-4.
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That's interesting. Where are all the threads asking when Orton gets a chance to start somewhere? Apparently Orton fans don't have as big a sense of entitlement as Tebow fans.
 
Bottom Line in 2012:

To say he shouldn't have gotten a shot in NY this year is playing blind. Not saying he is anything special, but there are HS QB's I'd play over the Sanchiception machine that was under center.

I'd just like to see the guy play for a whole season and put the massive Tebow argument on both sides to bed.

 
'pittstownkiller said:
It seems ridiculous that he couldn't even find the field for the Jets, especially after their season.
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That just goes to show how bad that organization is right now. They had Sanchez in bubble wrap
'fatness said:
'doowain said:
Is he a special type of QB who is raw as they come as a passer? Sure.
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Why is he so raw? He's been in the league 3 years now. Why hasn't he improved himself? Other players do.
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Well im sure this season he was not in alot of the typical QB training & practiced with ST & gadget wildcat #### along with RB
 
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No one could have ####ed up Tebow worse than NYJ.

If you want to convert him to a HB/TE, then do it. Take the QB position tag off him.

If you actually want him to possibly be useful as a QB, then take him out of the ST and other stuff. Build into him like you would any other developmental project.

What the Jets did was the worst of both.

 
'mjr said:
There were times this season when Sanchez looked so bad they pulled him out and sent Tebow in. Tebow looked even worse out there than Sanchez did. How do people think the third string QB even got into the game this year? Wasn't because of injury. It's because neither one of these guys are starting caliber QBs. Either one MIGHT be good if you give them 10 years on the sidelines, but bottom line is that they ain't doing it right now and neither belong out there. It's time for a big turnover in NY (off the field, not on the field as usual....) Staff, players... everywhere.
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What? When were these times Sanchez got replaced by Tebow? The only time Tebow played was for the odd Wildcat snap here and there where he ran the ball 99% of the time, punts, and that single series he got against the Titans.There were plenty of times that Sanchez sucked so bad he SHOULD have gotten replaced by Tebow, but it never happened. I personally think there were at least two, may,be more, games NY would have won if that had happened, but we'll never know because he never got the chance.
 
'Possum said:
'mjr said:
There were times this season when Sanchez looked so bad they pulled him out and sent Tebow in. Tebow looked even worse out there than Sanchez did. How do people think the third string QB even got into the game this year? Wasn't because of injury. It's because neither one of these guys are starting caliber QBs. Either one MIGHT be good if you give them 10 years on the sidelines, but bottom line is that they ain't doing it right now and neither belong out there. It's time for a big turnover in NY (off the field, not on the field as usual....) Staff, players... everywhere.
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What? When were these times Sanchez got replaced by Tebow? The only time Tebow played was for the odd Wildcat snap here and there where he ran the ball 99% of the time, punts, and that single series he got against the Titans.There were plenty of times that Sanchez sucked so bad he SHOULD have gotten replaced by Tebow, but it never happened. I personally think there were at least two, may,be more, games NY would have won if that had happened, but we'll never know because he never got the chance.
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I don't know what that dude is talking about.
 
'mr roboto said:
No one could have ####ed up Tebow worse than NYJ. If you want to convert him to a HB/TE, then do it. Take the QB position tag off him. If you actually want him to possibly be useful as a QB, then take him out of the ST and other stuff. Build into him like you would any other developmental project. What the Jets did was the worst of both.
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What they did this year was one of the dumbest things I've ever watched. Rex deserves to get fired for being such an idiot.
 
'KellysHeroes said:
now that Jax displayed a Passing attack their going to f it up...
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Meh, I know it's Mort but I put zero stock in that report.Who in the Jags FO told him that? Besides, there's a good chance the whole front office is swept out. Khan showed when he bought the team that if he wanted things to be secret, they would remain so. Who gains the most by leaking the info? It sure ain't the Jags, especially since Tebow is still under contract to the Jets. But a disgruntled benched QB might benefit.
 
'fantasycurse42 said:
'ConnSKINS26 said:
'fatness said:
'doowain said:
Is he a special type of QB who is raw as they come as a passer? Sure.
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Why is he so raw? He's been in the league 3 years now. Why hasn't he improved himself? Other players do.
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How many conventional QB reps do you think Tebow was getting during Jets' practices?
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Under 5% if I was to guess.
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Not to mention this is his second team and fourth head coach in three years and the Jets offensive braintrust leaves a hell of a lot to be desired. Look, everybody knew he was a raw player in terms of his pro-style QB abilities coming out, so why are people surprised that he's still a work in progress considering the team and coaching changes he's dealt with?What Tebow needed is the same type of incubation period that SF gave Kaepernick - if that happens for him in Denver, I'd bet he'd look like a lot more polished QB right now. Unfortunately for him, it didn't work out, but he's still a pretty young guy. Why is it so hard to believe that he cant refine his game over the next couple of years to become a decent starting QB?There's a couple of things that make me believe its possible:1) more and more teams are starting to incorporate single wing, spread and read option plays into their offenses and showing that stuff is a viable offensive style in the NFL. Denver did some of that in 2011 with Tebow, but it was very ad hoc and far from a polished and consistent philosophy the way the Redskins, for example, have done with RG3. That style is Tebow's bread and butter - if he can improve his passing and gets with a creative offensive coach who'll commit to a shotgun spread-style offense with option elements, I think it could be successful.2) regardless of how it happened and what you think about his style of play, the guy took over at QB for an awful Broncos team and got them to the playoffs, and he made some incredible plays at key moments during that run. This was in his second year under a different head coach and with no offseason with the team. If he has the legs and intangibles to help be part of something like that, even as bad as he looked at times throwing the ball, I believe he could become a solid starter somewhere down the road in a few years with continued improvement as a passer.I don't think that Tebow, right now, is all that great, but I do think there have been some flashes of special talent from him at times. So I can understand people saying he sucks, but I just think that it's a little bit early to be closing the book on the guy ever putting that talent together more consistently at this point in time.
 
'Chaka said:
'EBF said:
'Chaka said:
You don't just change mechanics at 25 years old. He has been playing this style his whole career and it is very unlikely that he will ever be able to deconstruct his style and completely rebuild it.
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Yea, I think people really overrate the extent to which playing QB is a learnable skill. Every player has a natural ceiling when it comes to things like poise, accuracy, and decision making under duress. Just because a guy is tall with a strong arm doesn't mean he "has all the tools" to be a great quarterback. Tebow is just an above average athlete with poor mental talent. Similar to someone like Josh McCown or Tarvaris Jackson. He won't be able to "learn" how to play quarterback any more than they did.
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I wouldn't say that he has poor mental talent. In fact everything I have seen and heard indicates that he is a football savvy guy with a solid work ethic. I just don't think that you can change something so fundamental about a player as his delivery such that it will hold up under pressure (i.e. when Jared Allen is trying to take your head off).I also don't think that accuracy is something that you can teach. Sure with a ton of hard work you may be able to improve by a couple percentage points but with Tebow we are talking about turning from 48% passer to a 65% passer and I think that is simply impossible.
Click to expand...
John Elway was a 47% passer his first year starting...
 
'FlapJacks said:
'Chaka said:
'EBF said:
'Chaka said:
You don't just change mechanics at 25 years old. He has been playing this style his whole career and it is very unlikely that he will ever be able to deconstruct his style and completely rebuild it.
Click to expand...
Yea, I think people really overrate the extent to which playing QB is a learnable skill. Every player has a natural ceiling when it comes to things like poise, accuracy, and decision making under duress. Just because a guy is tall with a strong arm doesn't mean he "has all the tools" to be a great quarterback. Tebow is just an above average athlete with poor mental talent. Similar to someone like Josh McCown or Tarvaris Jackson. He won't be able to "learn" how to play quarterback any more than they did.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say that he has poor mental talent. In fact everything I have seen and heard indicates that he Issac a football savvy guy with a solid work ethic. I just don't think that you can change something so fundamental about a player as his delivery such that it will hold up under pressure (i.e. when Jared Allen is trying to take your head off).I also don't think that accuracy is something that you can teach. Sure with a ton of hard work you may be able to improve by a couple percentage points but with Tebow we are talking about turning from 48% passer to a 65% passer and I think that is simply impossible.
Click to expand...
John Elway was a 47% passer his first year starting...
Click to expand...
and I don't really think Tebow needs to get to 65% right now, either - I agree with Chaka that's probably not gonna happen. But if he can get to somewhere around 55-57%, which is doable, I think he'd be fine because he picks up so much yardage on the ground. Then he'd need to improve a couple % points each year from there as his career moves along.I think the guy Tebow best compares to long-term is a slightly more mobile Steve McNair, and McNair was a sub-60% passer for several years as a starter before becoming more accurate in his later career.
 
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'FlapJacks said:
'Chaka said:
'EBF said:
'Chaka said:
You don't just change mechanics at 25 years old. He has been playing this style his whole career and it is very unlikely that he will ever be able to deconstruct his style and completely rebuild it.
Click to expand...
Yea, I think people really overrate the extent to which playing QB is a learnable skill. Every player has a natural ceiling when it comes to things like poise, accuracy, and decision making under duress. Just because a guy is tall with a strong arm doesn't mean he "has all the tools" to be a great quarterback. Tebow is just an above average athlete with poor mental talent. Similar to someone like Josh McCown or Tarvaris Jackson. He won't be able to "learn" how to play quarterback any more than they did.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say that he has poor mental talent. In fact everything I have seen and heard indicates that he is a football savvy guy with a solid work ethic. I just don't think that you can change something so fundamental about a player as his delivery such that it will hold up under pressure (i.e. when Jared Allen is trying to take your head off).I also don't think that accuracy is something that you can teach. Sure with a ton of hard work you may be able to improve by a couple percentage points but with Tebow we are talking about turning from 48% passer to a 65% passer and I think that is simply impossible.
Click to expand...
John Elway was a 47% passer his first year starting...
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Are you honestly going to compare Tim Tebow to John Elway?I mean are you sincerely suggesting Tebow could be the next Elway?
 
'Possum said:
'FlapJacks said:
'Chaka said:
'EBF said:
'Chaka said:
You don't just change mechanics at 25 years old. He has been playing this style his whole career and it is very unlikely that he will ever be able to deconstruct his style and completely rebuild it.
Click to expand...
Yea, I think people really overrate the extent to which playing QB is a learnable skill. Every player has a natural ceiling when it comes to things like poise, accuracy, and decision making under duress. Just because a guy is tall with a strong arm doesn't mean he "has all the tools" to be a great quarterback. Tebow is just an above average athlete with poor mental talent. Similar to someone like Josh McCown or Tarvaris Jackson. He won't be able to "learn" how to play quarterback any more than they did.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say that he has poor mental talent. In fact everything I have seen and heard indicates that he Issac a football savvy guy with a solid work ethic. I just don't think that you can change something so fundamental about a player as his delivery such that it will hold up under pressure (i.e. when Jared Allen is trying to take your head off).I also don't think that accuracy is something that you can teach. Sure with a ton of hard work you may be able to improve by a couple percentage points but with Tebow we are talking about turning from 48% passer to a 65% passer and I think that is simply impossible.
Click to expand...
John Elway was a 47% passer his first year starting...
Click to expand...
and I don't really think Tebow needs to get to 65% right now, either - I agree with Chaka that's probably not gonna happen. But if he can get to somewhere around 55-57%, which is doable, I think he'd be fine because he picks up so much yardage on the ground. Then he'd need to improve a couple % points each year from there as his career moves along.I think the guy Tebow best compares to long-term is a slightly more mobile Steve McNair, and McNair was a sub-60% passer for several years as a starter before becoming more accurate in his later career.
Click to expand...
First of all I doubt he can improve 8-10% on his completions and secondly being a 55-57% passer is not a recipe for success in the NFL in 2012. It's a passing league now and you need to be more accurate that 57% to be consistently successful.Here is the list of QBs who completed 58% and under in 2012: Locker, Weedon, Freeman, Sanchez, Luck, Skelton and Henne.2011: Grossman, Kolb, Flacco, McCoy, Sanchez, Skelton, Painter, Ponder, Bradford, Gabbert, Tebow2010: Fitzpatrick, Collins, Sanchez, Clauson, Derek AndersonNot many consistent winners in that group.
 
'Joe Summer said:
'doowain said:
The bottom line is the guy wins wherever he plays.
Click to expand...
He played in New York but didn't win there.He also played in Denver in 2010 but didn't win there either.Basically, your sample size consists of 12 games in 2011 plus 4 years of college. In other words, it's meaningless."Gino Torretta won wherever he played!!!" :lol:
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I thought all the tebowners were gone for good. The Tebow in Jax in 2013 will be good for business as they will flock back here until hew shows how bad he sucks again. They suck, he sucks, great fit. They will win some games vs really weak teams like he did for Denver because of his play, which will result in setting that franchise back even further. Any team with Tebow has no chance to win the SuperBowl
 
'fantasycurse42 said:
I'd just like to see the guy play for a whole season and put the massive Tebow argument on both sides to bed.
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That wouldn't put it to rest. If he progressed and played well for the season most of his detractors would say so. If he stunk all year however, his defenders would still say he wasn't used right, it was the coaches' fault, it was the defense's fault, he wasn't given enough time to develop, and the same things they're saying now. It's always someone else's fault to Tebow defenders.
 
i thnk sanchez and tebow are better than they have semed this year i just think rex and his marry band of morons are about the worst staff in the nfl despite having acutlaly been good at one point you know what makes teams like the pack and the pats good number one you never hear any of the jets type bs coming out of the coaching staff they never become jokes but the jets staff has even though you would probably not have said that three years ago too much media too much jersey shore type crap and now they have no creditibility and guys are not believing and playing that is my thought blow it up start over and make it better

 
Tim Tebow reportedly asks out of Jets' Wildcat

By Dan Hanzus

We found it odd that wide receiver Jeremy Kerley handled the New York Jets' Wildcat package on Sunday despite Tim Tebow being healthy and active. Now we know why.

According to a Sunday report by ESPNNewYork.com, Tebow asked out of the Jets' Wildcat scheme after learning that Greg McElroy would bypass him on the depth chart and start against the San Diego Chargers.

The New York Post also confimed the report, citing a source.

Tebow told the Jets early in the week he'd like to be removed from their situational gameplan, giving the team the opportunity to practice with Kerley in the Wildcat this week. Kerley actually completed a 42-yard pass in the 27-17 loss to the Chargers, giving him more passing yardage than Tebow this season.

When asked after the game who told him he wouldn't be playing in the Wildcat, Tebow responded, "It just kind of happens."
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nfl.com link
 
'Raider Nation said:
'Joe Summer said:
'Raider%20Nation said:
Sources: Tebow asked to be taken out of wildcat after Ryan passed over him to start McElroy
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I don't blame him but it does kinda tarnish his "good guy/do anything for the team" image.
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Indeed it does, sir. This is all over Twitter, and that's the main sentiment.Doesn't really matter. He's ticketed for Jacksonville anyway.
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At least according to Tebow's agent.
 
'Chaka said:
'Possum said:
'FlapJacks said:
'Chaka said:
'EBF said:
'Chaka said:
You don't just change mechanics at 25 years old. He has been playing this style his whole career and it is very unlikely that he will ever be able to deconstruct his style and completely rebuild it.
Click to expand...
Yea, I think people really overrate the extent to which playing QB is a learnable skill. Every player has a natural ceiling when it comes to things like poise, accuracy, and decision making under duress. Just because a guy is tall with a strong arm doesn't mean he "has all the tools" to be a great quarterback. Tebow is just an above average athlete with poor mental talent. Similar to someone like Josh McCown or Tarvaris Jackson. He won't be able to "learn" how to play quarterback any more than they did.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say that he has poor mental talent. In fact everything I have seen and heard indicates that he Issac a football savvy guy with a solid work ethic. I just don't think that you can change something so fundamental about a player as his delivery such that it will hold up under pressure (i.e. when Jared Allen is trying to take your head off).I also don't think that accuracy is something that you can teach. Sure with a ton of hard work you may be able to improve by a couple percentage points but with Tebow we are talking about turning from 48% passer to a 65% passer and I think that is simply impossible.
Click to expand...
John Elway was a 47% passer his first year starting...
Click to expand...
and I don't really think Tebow needs to get to 65% right now, either - I agree with Chaka that's probably not gonna happen. But if he can get to somewhere around 55-57%, which is doable, I think he'd be fine because he picks up so much yardage on the ground. Then he'd need to improve a couple % points each year from there as his career moves along.I think the guy Tebow best compares to long-term is a slightly more mobile Steve McNair, and McNair was a sub-60% passer for several years as a starter before becoming more accurate in his later career.
Click to expand...
First of all I doubt he can improve 8-10% on his completions and secondly being a 55-57% passer is not a recipe for success in the NFL in 2012. It's a passing league now and you need to be more accurate that 57% to be consistently successful.Here is the list of QBs who completed 58% and under in 2012: Locker, Weedon, Freeman, Sanchez, Luck, Skelton and Henne.2011: Grossman, Kolb, Flacco, McCoy, Sanchez, Skelton, Painter, Ponder, Bradford, Gabbert, Tebow2010: Fitzpatrick, Collins, Sanchez, Clauson, Derek AndersonNot many consistent winners in that group.
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Tebow would have needed to complete about 23 more passes in 2011 to get to 55% - I don't think that's all that big of a step to take.and I agree that 55% isn't normally a recipe for success, but at the same time none of those guys you listed are able to move the chains with their legs like Tebow. He put up 686 yards and seven TDs in 14 games as a starter and averaged more YPG than Cam Newton. I think that ability goes a long way towards offsetting a subpar comp%.don't get me wrong, I understand why you and a lot of other people look at it and say he can't be successful with the way he plays, and I'm not trying to say he's currently a worldbeater, or that he's anything close to a sure thing. But I do think there's still some potential there in the right situation, and I'd like to see what would happen if Tebow ever gets another shot with a team that commits to his style of play (and with a more structured plan for implementing it than the Broncos' on-the-fly 2011 attempt). At the very least it would finally put the whole debate to rest one way or another.
 
'Possum said:
I'd like to see what would happen if Tebow ever gets another shot with a team that commits to his style of play (and with a more structured plan for implementing it than the Broncos' on-the-fly 2011 attempt). At the very least it would finally put the whole debate to rest one way or another.
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The best place to find that team is in the CFL.
 
'flapgreen said:
'Chaka said:
'Possum said:
I'd like to see what would happen if Tebow ever gets another shot with a team that commits to his style of play (and with a more structured plan for implementing it than the Broncos' on-the-fly 2011 attempt). At the very least it would finally put the whole debate to rest one way or another.
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The best place to find that team is in the CFL.
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:yawn:
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I'm not being snarky I sincerely believe that will be his best opportunity to start and have an offense built around him. It's also his best opportunity to demonstrate to the NFL that he has the ability to be a consistent passer. Maybe the Jacksonville rumors will turn out to be true, I hope they are, but that is his only chance in the NFL and I'm skeptical about it at best

 
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