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Star Wars Universe (1 Viewer)
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Todem
Footballguy
I was not a fan of TLJ when I saw it for the first time. Since then I have re watched it several times and there are things I really enjoy in the film but the things I did not like were easily re-enforced. The forced humor (especially in the opening scene with Poe) and Leia Poppins kills me every viewing. And of course Luke's reaction to Rey and the lightsaber. Ugh that made me cringe and still does to this day. Again.....the epic ending of TFA and this is what I waited 2 years to see? Luke take it and just throw it over his shoulder "get off my lawn" style?
Awful.
But TLJ is not the worse Star Wars movie ever made. It is the second worst behind the dreadfully terminal AoTC. My god....it is the only film in the entire Star Wars universe I just simply never care to ever watch......ever.
I think Episode 9 is going to be fantastic. I am super excited. JJ will right the ship at least. Rian Johnson was awful.
Awful.
But TLJ is not the worse Star Wars movie ever made. It is the second worst behind the dreadfully terminal AoTC. My god....it is the only film in the entire Star Wars universe I just simply never care to ever watch......ever.
I think Episode 9 is going to be fantastic. I am super excited. JJ will right the ship at least. Rian Johnson was awful.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Same here. Do I think the reveiws were tainted. Yeah, somewhat. There were a TON of reviews before the movie came out, same for Captain Marvel. But that didn't make it a good or bad movie. I think it just made it skewed a bit worse than the movie actually was. But that's all I have. 10 years ago I would be arguing this like crazy.
And I'll definitely see 9 soon after it comes out.
Oh, and Solo got knocked hard by that BS story about the lead not being able to act. That was complete crap. But also look at the timing of that one. Wasn't it right after End Game but before Dead Pool? Incredibles 2 was right there too. I think the average person sees something like 4.2 movies a year in the theaters which tells me most people don't have the disposable income to see 4 movies like that in a 6 week span. I think that one has a much different gate if it had been pushed back to Christmas.
Todem
Footballguy
Yeah Solo was doomed before it was even released and that was a shame because it is a very enjoyable Star Wars origin story. I really like it a lot. Bunch of whiny panties all scrunched up nerds ripping a movie well before it was released? I do not even pay attention to reviews. Never have and never will.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
It's a bit odd to me that people like the prequels better as well, but I happen to think the prequels are abominations. If you were a kid during that time, okay, you get a pass, there's nostalgia that props up the low points in the original trilogy for me too. The Obi-Wan edit or whatever they called it after AotC came out was by far the best version of the prequels where a fan just edited out most of the Anakin & Amidala love "story." The rest is actually interesting as it's basically an Obi-Wan mystery with a huge land battle at the end. Phantom Menace is a totally forgettable snooze-fest other than the Darth Maul duel. Revenge could have been great but Lucas killed it with some of the worst dialogue and cringe worthy / laughable scenes ever ("I have the high ground!," "she died of a broken heart" - way to be there for your kids Amidala, or even better "NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo!!!!!!")
But I can't quit Star Wars no matter how much better I think the new stuff should be in my little corner of the internet. The news that Feige is getting involved is great as Marvel is killing it and based on her interviews and comments, I don't think Kathleen Kennedy has an idea what she is doing and is slowly running a money printing machine into the ground. (Says the guy from his computer that has nothing to do with Hollywood.)
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Poe is great. He needs more screen time. Finn is nothing. He really doesn't impact the plot at all and should have less air time. Give that time to Poe.
Insein
Footballguy
Finn was the character with the most potential coming in to TFA. He's an ex storm trooper that grows a conscience. That would make for some compelling character development over the course of a trilogy. Instead they turned him into a buffoon in TLJ and had him redo all the same character steps he already did in TFA.
Poe should be more but he's made to be this toxic male hot head. He's supposed to be the Han of the group but he's basically just a background character. He's like Wedge with more screen time.
Scoresman
Footballguy
Agree with the bolded. Leia Poppins has nothing on the whole Anakin "I don't like sand" scene. The first two prequels had god awful acting and even worse dialog. The third was pretty good mostly because of Ewan McGregor in that last fight scene, but the sequels are far and above the level of suck the prequels were.
I'm optimistic about 9 but am wondering about how Palpatine apparently comes back. I mean it'd probably be as a force ghost, but If that's the ROTJ Death Star wreckage we see in the trailer, could he have survived?
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
This got me thinking too...
Setting aside the whole "men bad/dumb, women good/smart" subtext rampant in the new movies there's an even more important question...
Who is the Hero?
We can't shake this feeling that we're being steered to experience....SURPRISE...Rey falling to the Dark Side.
And Kylo, even if he's somehow redeemed, it's just unlikable through and through.
The original six movies at least had this fundamental idea established - we're on a hero's journey.
But there's nothing like that in TFA and TLJ. There's not really a hero at all that we can identify much less cheer for.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
The only thing he brought to the franchise is that he switched sides. No skills, really. Only wants to flee. Then he goes toe to toe with Ren with a light saber? Just so much wrong with how his character progresses.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
Insein
Footballguy
Yet he stopped fleeing at the end of TFA to confront his former peers. He confronted Kylo when he had to. There was room for him to take the next step and become a 3 dimensional character. But next movie we first see him walking around in a leaking bubble suit trying to find Rey cause that's funny right?
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TheFanatic
Footballguy
Which was maybe the dumbest scene in the movies outside of anything with Jar Jar. That fight should've lasted exactly 1 second and Finn should've been bisected.
Insein
Footballguy
skol asylum
Footballguy
Don't be throwing shade on Lando and Leia's son Finn. You know he's gotta have some Skywalker in him the way he held his own against his half brother Ben.
Plus, Lando's in this one right? See, it all makes sense.
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skol asylum
Footballguy
I need to find the article again, but thankfully Lucas didn't get to make the sequels. He was going to go off on some story line in a microverse with the midichlorians and how characters there were controlling everything in the universe we know. Disney and Kathleen Kennedy etc shut him down. Bullet dodged.
Insein
Footballguy
Yea the Whills and midichlorians. Most would have hated that too.
Just wish they would have used the Heir to the Empire storyline. Not beat for beat but the basic storyline like they do with Marvel stories. Both old school and new school fans would have loved it.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
As a ‘closing in on 50’ dude...as much as I’m looking forward to RoS, I have no emotional stake in any of the characters really. I’m just watching for the feels. I enjoyed TFA because of the nostalgic element of ‘bringing the band back together’ - a trip down memory lane. TLJ’s defining moment was the lightsaber battle...as iconic as any set piece in Star Wars history. Both movies had very cringeworthy moments. But I’ve watched both 2-3 times which for me is rare...most movies unless they are great get one viewing from me. Solo? It was perfectly disposable...the kid playing Solo was in a no-win situation. It was Star Wars ‘No Bette Midler???!!!’ moment.
But Rey, Finn, Poe? For me their fates seem incidental. Kylo Ren? Adam Driver does fine...but the parallels between him and Vader, the greatest villain in movie history? It’s a tough standard to live up to. I don’t fault him for paling in comparison.
Bought my tickets...looking forward to 12/20.
But Rey, Finn, Poe? For me their fates seem incidental. Kylo Ren? Adam Driver does fine...but the parallels between him and Vader, the greatest villain in movie history? It’s a tough standard to live up to. I don’t fault him for paling in comparison.
Bought my tickets...looking forward to 12/20.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I don't disagree. But at least she has some force powers. Finn is just an imperial janitor
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
need2know
Footballguy
yup it was right there for them and they chose to ignore it. They cant really believe this storyline is better than Zahns can they?
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
This is the one I disliked the most of the new wave of movies, and I would say is EP2 level bad.
need2know
Footballguy
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Good lord no. Replacing Harrison Ford was an impossible tast but they found the perfect guy. Also, Han “shooting first “ was epic.
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STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I’ve watched it a half dozen times at least. To be fair I have a TV in my garage so I’m always putting stuff on in the background so it’s not like I’ve sat down and watched it all the way through each time.
Capella
Footballguy
They couldn’t do heir to the empire I assume because Luke and the old cast was in their 60s when Disney bought the rights.
Capella
Footballguy
It was the one I disliked the most but not Ep2 bad. I have it with Ep3 on my super nerdy omg I hope nobody I actually know ever reads this power rankings.
Insein
Footballguy
Sending a ship into hyperspace to attack other ships. Requiring ships to have fuel but allowing littler ships to escape from the slowest high speed chase since Oj and the bronco.
Force ghosts being able to do anything in the physical world. Nevermind the fact that Yoda uses lightning (typically a sith ability), he's a Force ghost that can manipulate the real world! Wtf?
Luke regressing from all of his growth in the OT where he went from reluctant farm boy to galactic hero. He turned from galactic hero to cowardly, murderous old curmudgeon. All off screen mind you so we see nothing of how he changed. Just that he did. The only glimpse we get is that he tries to kill his nephew based on a feeling. Luke, the man who couldn't kill his father despite the emperor egging him on to give in to his hate, all of sudden feels the need to light up his light saber and strike down his nephew for a possibility he can turn bad? No. Wrong.
Then there's just the force itself. Throughout the sequels and prequels, we are shown that the force is both light or dark. Good or evil. Now Grumpy old Luke tells us that's all bull####. There's no difference between the two. But then he gets upset when Rey "goes right to the dark." Makes no sense. Destroys the lore pretty much.
need2know
Footballguy
Scoresman
Footballguy
Fuel thing was a bit hokey, but not a huge deal for me. It's safe to assume anything that moves in space requires fuel. Leia Poppins was way worse for me.
Where has it been established that force ghosts can't manipulate the real world? It's not that much of a stretch to suggest they can and just because it hasn't happened in any other movie doesn't mean it destroys the lore.
As for Luke, it's been 30 years. Of course he's going to change. I'll give you the whole Luke trying to kill Kylo. I didn't like that character development, but a curmudgeon, hermit Luke makes sense to me. Him saying there is no difference between light and dark is just part of his disillusionment with everything. I didn't assume we were supposed to take it as fact.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
If there's one thing that's going to be in a STAR WARS movie...it's a curmudgeonly, old, hermit Jedi. There always has to be at least one.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
I agree on the fuel thing. They should have just stole the plot from BSG's "33" and did that for the movie. Would have been better and would have given those guys on the ships something to do (find the traitor who allowing the First Order to hone in on their signal).
Thunderlips
Footballguy
That's what I don't get about some of these guys who have such a mad on for the Disney Star Wars.
Blame Lucas for not using Mark Hamil 30+ years ago and instead going with a prequel that dealt with a fish man, trade route boycotts and a little kid. Blame his tired ### for 6 movies in 30+ years.....
Disney's at least giving the fans WAY more content.
zoonation
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
Don't get me wrong. Lucas still is very culpable in all of this. I'm not one of those people that are pining for the old days of Georgey Boy. I just didn't think Disney would half ### the new trilogy as much as they have. I thought we'd be getting the Marvel treatment. People in charge that understand the property, know it's rules and limitations as well as it's strengths and write a story that spans more than one movie at a time. They've been ad libbing from the beginning. Now we're in the 3rd movie that should have an End Game feel to it but it's more of a damage control piece to try to fill in the holes TLJ left.
Insein
Footballguy
But what is she trying to accomplish? What is her hero's journey? Luke had a couple of goals but ultimately it was to save his father from the dark side. Defeating the empire was a secondary goal to that.
Rey I guess is trying to save Ben? Who she barely knows and who she saw kill one of the few adults that was nice to her. I guess vaguely she's trying to stop the first order without any more depth to it than they're bad. It's not like they were a galaxy spanning empire that was oppressing everyone. They literally just took over during the first two movies.
So I guess it's hard for people to have more than a surface level association towards her that she is wearing light colors and has the blue lightsaber so she's good. Kylo is wearing dark colors and has a red light saber so he's bad, sort of. There's really not much depth to the characters and their motivations. They're just being propelled along rather than striving towards something.
Insein
Footballguy
Some force ghosts could in the EU but they were all powerful sith that utilized their hatred and angry to defy the will of the force for a time to interact with the living. We saw Yoda at the end of Jedi as a light Force ghost. He was a spiritual ghost not a physical one. 30 years later (which in the EU is a pretty long time for a ghost to still be able to defy the draw of the force and would be very against Yoda's beliefs to deny the binding nature of the force where all beings return to it once they release their physical forms) Yoda suddenly becomes physical again. If we were to go by the established lore (which Disney has chosen to basically ignore), we could interpret this as Yoda decided to embrace the ways of the Sith. The lightning helps support that theory. But the Disney writers didn't consider that. They just thought lightning would look cool with Yoda laughing.
zoonation
Footballguy
Agree. Great post.
Kylo is actually the most emotionally complex character. I find myself rooting for him
Insein
Footballguy
Same. He's a terrible villain but he is the most interesting character in the new trilogy. He has some motivation. Just wish they'd expand upon what that is.
B Maverick
Footballguy
Luke learned from Obi Wan and Yoda, who both went to hide as old hermits out of the way of the Empire. Completely makes sense Luke would too. Luke was always whiney so becoming an old crusty anti everything dude is right in line IMO.
They'll all had their good and bad moments but Ive been entertained. And the nostalgia of how it all ends will keep me interested so I'll be at RoS.
And I did enjoy Solo. Sure it wasn't Harrison Ford, but I got what I wanted from it. Han meets Chewie, Han meets Lando, Han gets the Falcon, the Kessel Run. Heck they even hinted at the next one which, if made, could show Han and Jabba's relationship starting... I liked it better then 1 and 2, probably on par with 3. Prob better then TLJ too.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Protagonist and hero aren't always the same thing.
I don't think they are here.
Edit: Didn't see Insein's post. That nailed it.
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
It is worth acknowledging that Luke's main goal only became clear in the 3rd movie. Maybe something similar will emerge for Rey in the 3rd movie.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
She is not an anti hero either though.
Maybe she is on some sort of Daenerys like path where she goes from some one were were suppose to root for to some one not? I can't see Disney turning her full bad though, that seems beyond their capability.
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