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Also, if I am reading things right, the rookie and some dev picks hold up a roster spot. This will mean that the waiver wire will be deeper than most expect.
In a league that not only requires 1 TE, but also gives the option to start multiple TEs; its very surprising that the #2 TE fell to the 7th
I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but let me reiterate once again. I did not going into this thinking I'd stockpile picks and put myself behind for year one, but at every pick where I selected the rookie pick, I felt that the value of the rookie pick was greater than the value of the players selected afterward. Would A. Bryant give me a better chance to win in year 1? Sure. Would I trade 1.4 for him for that same reason? No. I am pretty big on value, as opposed to fielding a starting lineup the day after the draft, even more so when we are months away from week 1. I am well aware that my "lineup" right now looks far worse than anyone else in the league, but we are in March. James Jones is not going to be my WR3 when the season begins, Hightower not my RB2. If you think I am going into the year with these exact pieces, or with the towel tossed in, you have not been in a league with me. I appreciate all the feedback/comments regarding this draft of mine. It is undoubtedly against the norm, and I am excited to see what I can do with this squad in the future.Its not a bad idea at all taking all those Rookie picks... thier values are going to go way up as they get closer to the draft. When the rookie draft comes around, he could trade those picks for Vet players that were picked ahead of his rookie Picks. Knowing JP, he won't do that and he'll hold most of those picks.Your team is interesting to me, and very different from how I would go about it for sure. I am very interested in knowing the kinds of players from this years rookie draft that you think are going to be long term type guys. As many of those as you have it seems you feel very good about this years rookie class. I have been under the impression that this would not necessarily be that great of a rookie class but I am admittedly not up to speed on them at this point. I am guessing you must be and have quite a few in mind that you would like to snag.P Manning, Garrard, QuinnMendenhall, Hightower, D Evans (V Tech)Jennings, Holmes, James Jones, N Washington, Sweed1.3, 1.4, 1.6, 1.8, 2.12010: 2 1st Rookies, 3 1st Devs
He was referring to the verbiage you used. Read your comment and you might giggle.In a league that not only requires 1 TE, but also gives the option to start multiple TEs; its very surprising that the #2 TE fell to the 7th
How is the combination of 6 RB/WR any different from other leagues. 90% of the leagues I play in are start 2RB/3WR/1FLEX.The larger number of flex positions in this league are only to help teams. It opens up the the positions to more flexibility. It's not meant to be a hindrance.
How many roster spots do you have in those leagues? Maybe I am just thinking of the leagues I am familiar with, but usually there is more than 4X the number of starting RB/WR for roster spots. I like how there are so many types of leagues. Just saying that this ratio may alter the drafting for some.
Making a 30 yo RB with his mileage a core player in a dynasty league is laughable. History says he's on Empty. Wasted 5th rounder.
Core player? Not even a little. Great value for this and next year? Yea.
As for the bolded part above....1) Forte is an average RB who just happened to crack the Top 5 in RBs last year based on his enormous amount of touches. He's not a Top 5 RB fantasy wise or talent wise. Read the numerous threads about him being overrated. You'll see.1) I wouldnt touch LT or Westy2) Forte is a stud, Calvin at #1 is a joke...the fact AP went 4th I have to question who the other drafters are...Did you happen to look at how the draft unfolded? I know you would have gone with Westbrook in the 2nd, and Tomlinson and the 3rd, but I just can't do that. We attack dynasties from an entirely different angle. Many different ways to skin a cat, Dave. You will rue the day you dealt me Calvin for Forte!I like Jennings, but 1.7 is too high...as for the rest of that team besides Peyton...yuck...P Manning, Garrard, Quinn
Mendenhall, Hightower, D Evans (V Tech)
Jennings, Holmes, James Jones, N Washington, Sweed
1.3, 1.4, 1.6, 1.8, 2.1
2010: 2 1st Rookies, 3 1st Devs
With my first round pick, I want a bookend I know will be around for years. Jennings provides that. At 25, I think it's reasonable to expect anywhere from 6-8 of solid production. He should be a top 6-10 PPR dynasty WR until he is at least 30. I can't say that about many players. Also, once he hits 30, I don't expect a huge drop off production like you see often from running backs. My 2nd choice would have been Chris Johnson, and no doubt he would have probably given me similar upside for these 5 years, but then what? RB landscape is ever changing and Jennings, well, he is here to stay. Much less of an injury risk too.
Nonetheless, assessment appreciated.
3) I like Jennings alot actuall, but you should have taken the best available WR...
4) CJ3 and a Wayne/Smith type in round two would have been better...but thats JMO...
I also have to question any draft in which Bowe, Royal and Crabtree are taken ahead of Roddy White, who is an absolute stud...those 3 picks alone are such HUGE reaches the space shuttle was probably used...none of them are worth a late 1st/early 2nd...you cant tell me a 230 point WR, which is what they are, is worth more than some of those other players, Lynch in the 4th was an absolute steal, same for Turner, and MBIII, and Im sure there are others Im forgeting...
To each his own, but WOW is all I can say about alot of this draft...
Yea, I get the feeling the poster is a bit incredulous at the WR love. Based on what I've seen from about mid-last year to now (in drafts, in league trades, and discussion here), this draft played out exactly like I thought it would. In PPR leagues, WR's have generally overtaken RB's in value. And young, cornerstone guys are seen as especially valuable in dynasty. Even over older stars (like Wayne, SS, etc). Hence Jennings/Bowe/Royal/ and even Crabtree before them in a Dynasty startup (whoever mentioned those guys over White as a negative has an arguable point, but it's far from a no-brainer.)
I just got a headache trying to make sense of this.
leagues I play in have 30 and 33 spots during the post season. This league has 6 or 9 less. By selecting dev picks (or whatever they call it), I'm assuming those open spots can be used by guys picked up off the waiver wire? That developmental picks don't count against your roster space, in which case drating 1 of them also allows you to get a 2nd player off the waiver wire. With between 72 and 108 more players in that pool compared too my leagues, it makes sense to me that they are worth so much. I was having a hard time figuring it out cause it's a little early too be picking those guys. Just look at the difference from Mario Urritia's soph season to his junior year when he declared. He went from a top prospect to a guy that is now rotting on Cincy's PS...as a 7th round pick. Seems like a gamble with any high prospect, but if you can use that roster spot than it makes a little more sense.
Only one college player can be placed “off roster” onto a taxi. The rest (if you are lucky to have more than one) must be part of the 24-man roster. That makes carrying extra college players a greater burden. As for your example, I do not believe Mario Urritia was considered a top developmental pick in his sophomore year for fantasy purposes. Sure, he was a nice prospect, but he didn’t command a top college pick like a Darren McFadden, Michael Crabtree or Dez Bryant type would. Still, more than a few of the college picks aside from the very top will likely end up duds. But those top ones, they usually hold or increase in value. This year’s safe assets, Dez Bryant, Arrelious Benn, Jon Dwyer and CJ Spiller, should all be increasing in value. The rest can be a crapshoot, but if you take them in the 10th round or later, they can be very good value bets.
thanks for explaining, well then it makes sense for every team to have at least one then...I thought Urritia was a top prospect. You probably pay more attention to the college players than I do as I don't do much until they are preparing for the NFL draft. Urritia was only my example, I would expect that there is a lot of turnover from year-to-year. You say they increase, so I'll take your word for it. Seems risky to draft one even if it is level of Dez Bryant ahead of some of the vets he was drafted ahead of
As for Fore, I personally dont care if he plain sucks, he was a stud last year, Chicago has nothing else, and I fully expect another great season, he catches a ton of passes, and in a PPR league he should be top 5 again, Ive seen all the Forte bashing threads, and I disagree with them...Forte was a stud as a rookie, I expect the same or better...As for Calvin or Fitz, I love them without a doubt and would love to have either on my team, I guess Im just a little surprised at how fast the shift has gone from RBs to WRs, I cant say I disagree with them more so that I cant fathom taking average WRs like Bowe/Royal/Crab nearly as high as they were selected, that baffles me more than Calvin or Fitz or AJ going that high...As for the bolded part above....1) Forte is an average RB who just happened to crack the Top 5 in RBs last year based on his enormous amount of touches. He's not a Top 5 RB fantasy wise or talent wise. Read the numerous threads about him being overrated. You'll see.1) I wouldnt touch LT or Westy2) Forte is a stud, Calvin at #1 is a joke...the fact AP went 4th I have to question who the other drafters are...Did you happen to look at how the draft unfolded? I know you would have gone with Westbrook in the 2nd, and Tomlinson and the 3rd, but I just can't do that. We attack dynasties from an entirely different angle. Many different ways to skin a cat, Dave. You will rue the day you dealt me Calvin for Forte!I like Jennings, but 1.7 is too high...as for the rest of that team besides Peyton...yuck...P Manning, Garrard, Quinn
Mendenhall, Hightower, D Evans (V Tech)
Jennings, Holmes, James Jones, N Washington, Sweed
1.3, 1.4, 1.6, 1.8, 2.1
2010: 2 1st Rookies, 3 1st Devs
Nonetheless, assessment appreciated.
3) I like Jennings alot actuall, but you should have taken the best available WR... <_<
4) CJ3 and a Wayne/Smith type in round two would have been better...but thats JMO...
I also have to question any draft in which Bowe, Royal and Crabtree are taken ahead of Roddy White, who is an absolute stud...those 3 picks alone are such HUGE reaches the space shuttle was probably used...none of them are worth a late 1st/early 2nd...you cant tell me a 230 point WR, which is what they are, is worth more than some of those other players, Lynch in the 4th was an absolute steal, same for Turner, and MBIII, and Im sure there are others Im forgeting...
To each his own, but WOW is all I can say about alot of this draft...
2) Calvin or Fitz at #1 is not at all a joke. They are the two premiere WRs in the game. They are both extremely young and will be two of the safest bets in FF for the next 8-10 years. I see no problem at all taking them over anyone else in a PPR league. And if you think this draft is an outlier, you obviously haven't seen any other drafts thus far in 2009. I've seen Calvin and Fitz in the Top 5 in every draft. It's all personal preference where they fall in that Top 5. It's obvious to me that you are going to be one of those guys that misses the boat on the new-found value of stud WRs in FF and cling to the old notion of only drafting RBs in the first round. Times are changing man....don't be left behind.
3) ADP at 1.04....nothing wrong with it. Sure, he has HUGE upside. But so does everyone else in the Top 5. ADP in a non-PPR is the surefire #1 player IMO. In a PPR, he just isn't and I see nothing wrong with taking MJD over him. I don't know that I'd do it personally, but I don't think it's crazy at all.
Following your draft, I think you arguably did the best at each spot EXCEPT for Marshall. He could very well sideline an otherwise stellar draft and shot for a title in 2009. Roddy White taken 1 pick later would have been a MUCH better choice with similar upside and considerably less risk (both this year and the future). Plug Roddy in place of Marshall and I think you easily had the best draft.
Yeah, when I made the pick I knew most people would prefer Roddy. But I think when it comes down to it, Brandon Marshall can produce more when he's on the field. The risk is big, but the reward is even bigger. Those were the only two guys I was looking at. We'll see how much I regret it...
I disagree. I will grant you that his upside vs. Roddy may be higher, but it's not by much, IMO. And his risk is CONSIDERABLY lower. There's a chance Marshall misses half of 2009. There's a chance with one more episode his total future is in jeopardy. So, in the end, I think you have that statement backwards. The reward is big, but the risk is even bigger.You may end up being right, that's just how I view it. You put together a solid team that you didn't need that risk.
I like this team also...I'm big on Pierre right now though, hopefully NO doesnt draft a RB early. Chris Henry is also a fairly big upside guy. Not sure if he'll ever live up to it but when on the field his talent is that of a top 20 WR.
As someone who picked two of those three you mention (and I actually wanted Bowe/Royal at the turn), I'll try to explain my thinking there:If this were a redraft, I would have done it differently (obviously.) But being a dynasty league, and picking at the turn, it was either strike now and get two young WR that I feel will be FF studs for a long time, or miss out. For purposes of a dynasty start, I like the picks I took over Wayne/SSmith/Braylon, and I think many of these boards will agree with that thinking. It's definitely questionable that I left Boldin and White on the board. But, in this league, Boldin and White outscored Royal and Bowe by 32 and 35 points respectively (and Smith even less). That's about 2 a week. And I think both of the former have shown their peak (Boldin's playing style scares me a little, too, to make him a cornerstone guy).
What was the PPG comparison between Jackson and the WR you mention ( believe he PPG'd about 4 more than Royal for instance )? How many RB get the kind of touches that Jackson does compared to the WR that get 120+ targets a year like Royal/Bowe do ( FBG shows 21 of them) ?To me that is the only way you go RB in the first in these PPR flex leagues. A stud non RBBC back. There are so few RB that get the majority of the teams touches anymore they have some serious value, but I agree about the injury risk.
I'm pretty sure it's only a 3 game suspension. that's a bit of an exaggeration...Personally I like both guys here but In a dynasty, I'll take Marshall's higher ceiling over White's higher floor. There's a better chance that Marshall will be suspended again in the future... But then again. Maybe it'll never happen again.
1.03 3. Knights of Prosperity Jones-Drew, Maurice JAC RB Tue Mar 24 11:08:26 p.m. ET 2009 1.04 4. BIG FISH Peterson, Adrian MIN RB Tue Mar 24 11:53:01 p.m. ET 2009 1.05 5. Big Boy Jackson, Steven STL RB Wed Mar 25 12:30:56 a.m. ET 2009 Per text from BB 1.08 8. Bucketheads Johnson, Chris TEN RB Wed Mar 25 7:28:08 a.m. ET 2009 1.10 10. Boats N Hoes Forte, Matt CHI RB Wed Mar 25 10:27:34 a.m. ET 2009 2.04 16. Patoons Gore, Frank SFO RB Wed Mar 25 11:06:28 a.m. ET 2009 Pick made based on Pre-Draft List 2.11 23. Knights of Prosperity Williams, DeAngelo CAR RB Wed Mar 25 12:29:22 p.m. ET 2009 2.12 24. Polk High TD Machine Turner, Michael ATL RB Wed Mar 25 12:33:03 p.m. ET 2009 3.01 25. Knights of Prosperity Bush, Reggie NOS RB Wed Mar 25 12:52:14 p.m. ET 2009 3.04 28. BIG FISH Smith, Kevin DET RB Wed Mar 25 1:15:02 p.m. ET 2009 3.08 32. Bucketheads Barber, Marion DAL RB Wed Mar 25 3:34:01 p.m. ET 2009 3.09 33. Big Boy Stewart, Jonathan CAR RB Wed Mar 25 3:55:36 p.m. ET 2009 3.10 34. Money Mayweather Slaton, Steve HOU RB Wed Mar 25 4:27:24 p.m. ET 2009 4.01 37. Literally Possessed McFadden, Darren OAK RB Wed Mar 25 5:22:29 p.m. ET 2009 4.05 41. Bucketheads Lynch, Marshawn BUF RB Wed Mar 25 5:56:22 p.m. ET 2009 4.07 43. garlicduck Jacobs, Brandon NYG RB Wed Mar 25 6:26:43 p.m. ET 2009 4.11 47. Polk High TD Machine Brown, Ronnie MIA RB Wed Mar 25 7:20:03 p.m. ET 2009 5.04 52. JPeso Mendenhall, Rashard PIT RB Wed Mar 25 8:59:22 p.m. ET 2009 5.07 55. Cavalier King Charles Jones, Felix DAL RB Wed Mar 25 9:15:15 p.m. ET 2009 Pick made based on Pre-Draft List 5.11 59. Boats N Hoes Portis, Clinton WAS RB Wed Mar 25 11:25:01 p.m. ET 2009 5.12 60. Literally Possessed Tomlinson, Ladainian SDC RB Wed Mar 25 11:25:24 p.m. ET 2009 6.03 63. Money Mayweather Thomas, Pierre NOS RB Wed Mar 25 11:59:04 p.m. ET 2009 6.04 64. Big Boy Addai, Joseph IND RB Thu Mar 26 1:40:12 a.m. ET 2009 6.07 67. garlicduck Westbrook, Brian PHI RB Thu Mar 26 8:49:58 a.m. ET 2009 C'mon give me 2 more years!!!! 6.08 68. Cavalier King Charles * Dwyer, Jonathan FA RB Thu Mar 26 9:56:59 a.m. ET 2009 This is JONATHAN DWYER (College) Replacement pick made by Commissioner 7.01 73. Polk High TD Machine * Spiller, CJ FA RB Thu Mar 26 10:56:45 a.m. ET 2009 7.06 78. garlicduck Ward, Derrick TBB RB Thu Mar 26 11:58:39 a.m. ET 2009 7.10 82. Money Mayweather Rice, Ray BAL RB Thu Mar 26 12:32:51 p.m. ET 2009 Where would you have taken him?
Marshall already had a 3 game suspension this past year. He was lucky to get it reduced, but it was originally a 3 game suspension. With another run-in with the law in < 1 year after promising not to, you think it's going to be just another 3 game suspension? Sure, more power to you. I would prepare for 8 games, personally.How much higher is Marshall's ceiling over White? Especially with the chance Cutler leaves town?
You make good points, but I did think you were being sarcastic when I read the bolded part (until I read the rest of the post). For the record, I prefer Marshall's upside (and consistency) as well, but I would draft Roddy White just ahead of him right now due to market value and Marshall's risk of eventually getting kicked out of the league.
I like Royal, and Bowe, but I dont think Bowe has much higher upside than what he has done the last two years, which is about 230 points per year, you can find WRs like that ALOT later...as for Royal, he had 91 catches last year, so I dont know how much better he can get either, he is small and should be solid, but again, he is another 230 point WR, I cant see him as a top 5 WR ever, and just can see taking him in the 1st round...as for Crab, I think he could be bigtime, but damn thats high for a guy who hasnt even been drafted yet...Roddy IMO is a stud, already had 2 80+/12-1300 seasons and has a young stud QB...but, to each his own...
So, you gave up Boldin/Jacobs for Fitz, yet you don't understand how Fitz could go at 1.01?
Wait you dont think an average of 78 catches for 1,009 yards and 6 tds can go up much farther when he's only been in the league 2 years and he has had Damon Huard, Brodie Croyle, and Tyler Thigpen throwing to him? 3rd years is normally when WRs really start to step it up. And now he may have the best QB hes ever had throwing to him. Am I missing something??
1.1, NO
Possibly, but if you dont think AP has a 2,000 and 20 season capability then you are missing the boat my friend...
Maybe, but I dont see Bowe as an elite WR...his numbers may go up a little, but I dont think they will go up that much...JMO
I do agree that he has that capability. Also, I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but i think that Calvin has that same capability.Possibly, but if you dont think AP has a 2,000 and 20 season capability then you are missing the boat my friend...
Im not saying they have reached their ceiling, but I dont think their ceiling is THAT much more than where they are now...Bowe I just dont think is great, solid, not great, as for Royal, he is small and already caught 90+ passes, how much better can he get, OK, maybe he turns into a 100+ catch guy, great, he still doesnt get enough yards, maybe he turns into a Wes Welker, and thats great, but Welker isnt and never would be a 1st round pick...a solid player, yes, 1st rounder, not even close...To assume that those guys have reached their ceiling is laughable.
I think Calvin is great, is he better than Randy Moss in his prime, Im not sure, even still, I cant see any WR ever going for 2000, although Calvin could easily be a 1500/15 guy for awhile, and thats nothing to sneeze at...not to mention playing in Detroit will only kill his value ever so slightly, no matter how good he is, being in Detroit will hurt him probably...I do agree that he has that capability. Also, I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but i think that Calvin has that same capability.Possibly, but if you dont think AP has a 2,000 and 20 season capability then you are missing the boat my friend...
Which one would you say does better in Mop up Time?gianmarco said:
