Super Bowl LVII ****Kansas City vs Philadelphia**** KC 38...PHI 35 Chiefs are World Champions!!! (2 Viewers)

[Zow]

honest question to those in philly how did things hold up last night i hope that nothing stupid happened with breaking stuff etc i hope that all is well and congrats to philly on a great season i see you being even better next year god help the rest of us in the nfc take that to the bank brohans

I bet it was a lot of "hold me back, bros" type stuff. You know, the opposite of KG behavior.

 

[Wingnut]

Didn't watch the game, but I see the Eagles had ZERO sacks against gimpy Mahomes.

Lol that's just beautiful.

 

[Zow]

This was a brutal loss, I was completely emotionally unprepared for a loss. I really didn't see Mahomes beating us (he didn't) and I was convinced that our DLine would wreck the game (they didn't). I worried that Hurts would come up small in the big game and he proved me wrong-apart from the fumble I thought he was the MVP of the game.

In the end, I've been watching Andy coach for 20 years and I really thought Sirriani was the better game-day coach. That was where I was really, really wrong. I felt great at half time. Andy and company went in at halftime, diagnosed Gannon's defense and came out to ****ing carve us up. It was a clinic and the Eagles coaching staff had no answers. It was a team loss, from Nick on down to the players. We've been bad at ST all year and it hurt us huge last night. The Dline not showing up was the reason we lost.

This is not sour grapes; the Eagles deserved to lose. But the holding call at the end of the game was a ****ing travesty. The refs set the tempo of what they would or would not call for the entire game and there NO flags in the second half. To throw a flag at that moment on such a ticky tack foul when they were not all game was just ****ed. I think we absolutely could have gone the field with 1:45 left and kicked a FG or maybe even scored a TD. But here's the thing, if we get the ball and the Eagles go 3 and out, okay. We had a shot and the Chiefs D did their job. I can swallow that loss. This loss I can't. They basically took away any chance for the Eagles to mount one last drive and put it on the defense to stop us. It was beyond egregious..

It is what it is. I think the Eagles will back in the Super Bowl in the next few years.

Good post. Regarding their quick strike effectiveness, has Philly had many last minute comebacks? Their offense strikes me as more of a run/short-pass offense that might have difficulty up against the clock.

No. Opposite. They generally get out in front and then run the ball down the opposing teams' throat. That being said, the drive before, they need to march down the field and score 8 points and they did exactly that.

Yeah I don't see this loss as being on the Eagles' offense at all. I thought all personnel played great, Hurts could have been the MVP despite the loss, and their OC was phenomenal (and is apparently headed to the Colts with this exclamation point on his resume). One bad play with the Hurts fumble but those things happen.

I do agree with the statement that they could have gone down and scored. Heck if the Chiefs scored the three and kicked off with 1:50 remaining or anything I would have bet the Eagles tied it. But, the loss instead falls on the defense (and not the tough call). As such, I don't agree with any sentiment(s) suggesting the refs blew this game, the better team lost, etc.

 

[Insein]

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's

I’ll add to this that if the ref who made the call believed that it was holding (which Bradberry admitted to, so hard to assume anything else) then what people are *actually* asking for here is a deliberate non-call by an official who both witnessed, and believed enough holding happened to throw the flag.

Which he did.

Imagine the outrage if he’d come out after the game and said, “I definitely saw the hold. It was right in front of me. I thought there was enough there, but due to the situation I decided to not call it &’ swallowed my whistle”.

And then if Bradberry came out and said “yep, I was holding. Sure am glad I got away with that one - it might have cost us the game.”

Just sayin - that sword is sharp on both sides.

He wouldn't have though. If there was no call, barely anyone would have noticed it and even less would have cared.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Yes, and Bradberry's full quote included he thought he was ok because during the playoffs the refs had not been calling it that close. This time they did.

That’s not what he said at all. Calling that his “full quote” seems like an odd choice.

His full quote, “It was a holding," he said following the Eagles' 38-35 loss. "I tugged his jersey. I was hoping they would let it slide."

Here’s the ref who made the call:
“
After the game, referee Carl Cheffers told pool reporter Lindsay Jones that the grab was transparent and there was "no debate" on whether it was a flag.
"The receiver went to the inside, and he was attempting to release to the outside," Cheffers said. "The defender grabbed the jersey with his right hand and restricted him from releasing to the outside. So, therefore, we called defensive holding."

 

[The Duff Man]

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's

I’ll add to this that if the ref who made the call believed that it was holding (which Bradberry admitted to, so hard to assume anything else) then what people are *actually* asking for here is a deliberate non-call by an official who both witnessed, and believed enough holding happened to throw the flag.

Which he did.

Imagine the outrage if he’d come out after the game and said, “I definitely saw the hold. It was right in front of me. I thought there was enough there, but due to the situation I decided to not call it &’ swallowed my whistle”.

And then if Bradberry came out and said “yep, I was holding. Sure am glad I got away with that one - it might have cost us the game.”

Just sayin - that sword is sharp on both sides.

This raises an interesting question.

Why does “letter of the law” holding happen all the time and not get called (including on the line)?

Are these refs seeing it but judging that it is not egregious and trying not to slow the game by calling holding on every other play.

Or do they legit not see it? I always assumed the former.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's

I’ll add to this that if the ref who made the call believed that it was holding (which Bradberry admitted to, so hard to assume anything else) then what people are *actually* asking for here is a deliberate non-call by an official who both witnessed, and believed enough holding happened to throw the flag.

Which he did.

Imagine the outrage if he’d come out after the game and said, “I definitely saw the hold. It was right in front of me. I thought there was enough there, but due to the situation I decided to not call it &’ swallowed my whistle”.

And then if Bradberry came out and said “yep, I was holding. Sure am glad I got away with that one - it might have cost us the game.”

Just sayin - that sword is sharp on both sides.

He wouldn't have though. If there was no call, barely anyone would have noticed it and even less would have cared.

Except he absolutely saw it. Thus, my point.

He stated, quite clearly, that he saw a penalty.

I just quoted him above.

 

[Insein]

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's

I’ll add to this that if the ref who made the call believed that it was holding (which Bradberry admitted to, so hard to assume anything else) then what people are *actually* asking for here is a deliberate non-call by an official who both witnessed, and believed enough holding happened to throw the flag.

Which he did.

Imagine the outrage if he’d come out after the game and said, “I definitely saw the hold. It was right in front of me. I thought there was enough there, but due to the situation I decided to not call it &’ swallowed my whistle”.

And then if Bradberry came out and said “yep, I was holding. Sure am glad I got away with that one - it might have cost us the game.”

Just sayin - that sword is sharp on both sides.

He wouldn't have though. If there was no call, barely anyone would have noticed it and even less would have cared.

Except he absolutely saw it. Thus, my point.

He stated, quite clearly, that he saw a penalty.

I just quoted him above.

I get that. But the assertion that he would have come out after the game and say he blew a call most wouldn't have noticed is silly.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Or do they legit not see it? I always assumed the former

I actually assumed it was the latter - angles are everything. Sometimes we’ll see a camera angle with a player’s hand on another players hip, or around their shoulder, and the ref has no clear shot of that, because they’re on the field on the other side of the hand. Sometimes their view is obstructed by other players.

 

[Amused to Death]

Yes, and Bradberry's full quote included he thought he was ok because during the playoffs the refs had not been calling it that close. This time they did.

That’s not what he said at all. Calling that his “full quote” seems like an odd choice.

His full quote, “It was a holding," he said following the Eagles' 38-35 loss. "I tugged his jersey. I was hoping they would let it slide."

Here’s the ref who made the call:
“
After the game, referee Carl Cheffers told pool reporter Lindsay Jones that the grab was transparent and there was "no debate" on whether it was a flag.
"The receiver went to the inside, and he was attempting to release to the outside," Cheffers said. "The defender grabbed the jersey with his right hand and restricted him from releasing to the outside. So, therefore, we called defensive holding."

I watched the post-game interview he did in the locker room. He said more than what's being reported. He absolutely added that the refs weren't calling it that close in the playoffs and he thought he would be ok. I watched it. No, I can't find it in any article however.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's

I’ll add to this that if the ref who made the call believed that it was holding (which Bradberry admitted to, so hard to assume anything else) then what people are *actually* asking for here is a deliberate non-call by an official who both witnessed, and believed enough holding happened to throw the flag.

Which he did.

Imagine the outrage if he’d come out after the game and said, “I definitely saw the hold. It was right in front of me. I thought there was enough there, but due to the situation I decided to not call it &’ swallowed my whistle”.

And then if Bradberry came out and said “yep, I was holding. Sure am glad I got away with that one - it might have cost us the game.”

Just sayin - that sword is sharp on both sides.

He wouldn't have though. If there was no call, barely anyone would have noticed it and even less would have cared.

Except he absolutely saw it. Thus, my point.

He stated, quite clearly, that he saw a penalty.

I just quoted him above.

I get that. But the assertion that he would have come out after the game and say he blew a call most wouldn't have noticed is silly.

It’s beside the point of my hypothetical.

The point is, he saw a penalty & threw the flag.

The player admitted that he held. The red confirmed that he saw the penalty.

And what people seem to want is for that ref to have ignored the clear penalty he witnessed (at least in his eyes) in favor of a non-call for [reasons].

Ref made the call that he believed was correct on the field, player confirmed it. How is this remotely controversial other than everyone wanting overtime?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I watched it. No, I can't find it in any article however.

Find me a video and we’ll revisit.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

If Mahomes doesn’t throw the ball to the guy being held it might be a discussion. I don’t know if Mahomes saw the hold and purposefully threw it to JuJu or not but QBs like Rodgers and Mahomes do this all the time.

 

[Amused to Death]

I watched it. No, I can't find it in any article however.

Find me a video and we’ll revisit.

I can't find one that shows the entire interview. They all cut off after the "I was holding" statement. The interview went on longer than those words. Whatever.

 

[unckeyherb]

This is not sour grapes; the Eagles deserved to lose. But the holding call at the end of the game was a ****ing travesty. The refs set the tempo of what they would or would not call for the entire game and there NO flags in the second half. To throw a flag at that moment on such a ticky tack foul when they were not all game was just ****ed. I think we absolutely could have gone the field with 1:45 left and kicked a FG or maybe even scored a TD. But here's the thing, if we get the ball and the Eagles go 3 and out, okay. We had a shot and the Chiefs D did their job. I can swallow that loss. This loss I can't. They basically took away any chance for the Eagles to mount one last drive and put it on the defense to stop us. It was beyond egregious..

Both teams had a drive eliminated by the officiating and the Chiefs drive was more egregious. It was just in the 1st half and they won, so hardly anyone is talking about it.

Some great/classic ending was all we were robbed of, but the call was a 60/40 call that gets made more often than not throughout the season.

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's the biggest game of their careers, so just like a player who may slightly miss a throw/catch/shot, etc. because they are too excited or caught up in the moment, a ref can miss a call because they are too excited. I'm sure in retrospect after watching film he wishes he'd let it go, but it was a justifiable penalty and he saw enough at the time to throw the flag. He likely asked the sideline official and back judge what they thought here, but if no one took him off it he had enough to stick with the call.

It's not egregious or a travesty, its just an unfortunate case of humanity in a game played and officiated by humans.

I think the thing that too many people forget is that the officials are part of the humanity of sports. They aren't a faceless robot with no skin in the game, but humans doing their very best (at least the majority of the time and certainly at this level). To err is human and all....

I get it, but honestly, they let them play all game long, setting a precedent for what is and isn't allowed. Again there were no flags thrown in the second half although that level of contact was happening all game. In the biggest moment, when a 3rd down conversion basically ends the game they decided to throw a towel at an EXTREMELY ticky tack play that had no effect on the play. These guys should have some situational awareness. FWIW, that was a late-*** flag too.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

If Mahomes doesn’t throw the ball to the guy being held it might be a discussion. I don’t know if Mahomes saw the hold and purposefully threw it to JuJu or not but QBs like Rodgers and Mahomes do this all the time.

Savvy QBs always look for DPI or holding.

 

[unckeyherb]

This is not sour grapes; the Eagles deserved to lose. But the holding call at the end of the game was a ****ing travesty. The refs set the tempo of what they would or would not call for the entire game and there NO flags in the second half. To throw a flag at that moment on such a ticky tack foul when they were not all game was just ****ed. I think we absolutely could have gone the field with 1:45 left and kicked a FG or maybe even scored a TD. But here's the thing, if we get the ball and the Eagles go 3 and out, okay. We had a shot and the Chiefs D did their job. I can swallow that loss. This loss I can't. They basically took away any chance for the Eagles to mount one last drive and put it on the defense to stop us. It was beyond egregious..

Both teams had a drive eliminated by the officiating and the Chiefs drive was more egregious. It was just in the 1st half and they won, so hardly anyone is talking about it.

Some great/classic ending was all we were robbed of, but the call was a 60/40 call that gets made more often than not throughout the season.

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's the biggest game of their careers, so just like a player who may slightly miss a throw/catch/shot, etc. because they are too excited or caught up in the moment, a ref can miss a call because they are too excited. I'm sure in retrospect after watching film he wishes he'd let it go, but it was a justifiable penalty and he saw enough at the time to throw the flag. He likely asked the sideline official and back judge what they thought here, but if no one took him off it he had enough to stick with the call.

It's not egregious or a travesty, its just an unfortunate case of humanity in a game played and officiated by humans.

I think the thing that too many people forget is that the officials are part of the humanity of sports. They aren't a faceless robot with no skin in the game, but humans doing their very best (at least the majority of the time and certainly at this level). To err is human and all....

A more obvious defensive holding by Bradbury on JSS was not called on 3rd down in the first half, forcing the Chiefs to punt. I haven't seen this addressed but thought it was possible the KC coaches/players complained about the no call to the refs, which might have led the ref who made that last call to be specifically watching for it.

Right, but that is my point. You can't allow a certain amount of touching all game long and then decide, on the biggest play at the end of the game, to change your mind and flag it.

 

[Zow]

This is not sour grapes; the Eagles deserved to lose. But the holding call at the end of the game was a ****ing travesty. The refs set the tempo of what they would or would not call for the entire game and there NO flags in the second half. To throw a flag at that moment on such a ticky tack foul when they were not all game was just ****ed. I think we absolutely could have gone the field with 1:45 left and kicked a FG or maybe even scored a TD. But here's the thing, if we get the ball and the Eagles go 3 and out, okay. We had a shot and the Chiefs D did their job. I can swallow that loss. This loss I can't. They basically took away any chance for the Eagles to mount one last drive and put it on the defense to stop us. It was beyond egregious..

Both teams had a drive eliminated by the officiating and the Chiefs drive was more egregious. It was just in the 1st half and they won, so hardly anyone is talking about it.

Some great/classic ending was all we were robbed of, but the call was a 60/40 call that gets made more often than not throughout the season.

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's the biggest game of their careers, so just like a player who may slightly miss a throw/catch/shot, etc. because they are too excited or caught up in the moment, a ref can miss a call because they are too excited. I'm sure in retrospect after watching film he wishes he'd let it go, but it was a justifiable penalty and he saw enough at the time to throw the flag. He likely asked the sideline official and back judge what they thought here, but if no one took him off it he had enough to stick with the call.

It's not egregious or a travesty, its just an unfortunate case of humanity in a game played and officiated by humans.

I think the thing that too many people forget is that the officials are part of the humanity of sports. They aren't a faceless robot with no skin in the game, but humans doing their very best (at least the majority of the time and certainly at this level). To err is human and all....

I get it, but honestly, they let them play all game long, setting a precedent for what is and isn't allowed. Again there were no flags thrown in the second half although that level of contact was happening all game. In the biggest moment, when a 3rd down conversion basically ends the game they decided to throw a towel at an EXTREMELY ticky tack play that had no effect on the play. These guys should have some situational awareness. FWIW, that was a late-*** flag too.

I'm not sure we can definitively say the bold. It probably had little to a marginal impact, but the guy was the intended target and he was held for a brief moment.

 

[Insein]

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's

I’ll add to this that if the ref who made the call believed that it was holding (which Bradberry admitted to, so hard to assume anything else) then what people are *actually* asking for here is a deliberate non-call by an official who both witnessed, and believed enough holding happened to throw the flag.

Which he did.

Imagine the outrage if he’d come out after the game and said, “I definitely saw the hold. It was right in front of me. I thought there was enough there, but due to the situation I decided to not call it &’ swallowed my whistle”.

And then if Bradberry came out and said “yep, I was holding. Sure am glad I got away with that one - it might have cost us the game.”

Just sayin - that sword is sharp on both sides.

He wouldn't have though. If there was no call, barely anyone would have noticed it and even less would have cared.

Except he absolutely saw it. Thus, my point.

He stated, quite clearly, that he saw a penalty.

I just quoted him above.

I get that. But the assertion that he would have come out after the game and say he blew a call most wouldn't have noticed is silly.

It’s beside the point of my hypothetical.

The point is, he saw a penalty & threw the flag.

The player admitted that he held. The red confirmed that he saw the penalty.

And what people seem to want is for that ref to have ignored the clear penalty he witnessed (at least in his eyes) in favor of a non-call for [reasons].

Ref made the call that he believed was correct on the field, player confirmed it. How is this remotely controversial other than everyone wanting overtime?

There's no controversy with the individual ref. It's with the league in general. No consistency. Let holding go the whole game then call it to end the game.

 

[unckeyherb]

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's

I’ll add to this that if the ref who made the call believed that it was holding (which Bradberry admitted to, so hard to assume anything else) then what people are *actually* asking for here is a deliberate non-call by an official who both witnessed, and believed enough holding happened to throw the flag.

Which he did.

Imagine the outrage if he’d come out after the game and said, “I definitely saw the hold. It was right in front of me. I thought there was enough there, but due to the situation I decided to not call it &’ swallowed my whistle”.

And then if Bradberry came out and said “yep, I was holding. Sure am glad I got away with that one - it might have cost us the game.”

Just sayin - that sword is sharp on both sides.

Yes, and Bradberry's full quote included he thought he was ok because during the playoffs the refs had not been calling it that close. This time they did.

right

 

[unckeyherb]

Didn't watch the game, but I see the Eagles had ZERO sacks against gimpy Mahomes.

Lol that's just beautiful.

Its why they lost. The strongest part of the defense all season long literally did not show up to play. Gannon not bringing any heat was malpractice once Mahomes re-injured his ankle.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

There's no controversy with the individual ref. It's with the league in general. No consistency. Let holding go the whole game then call it to end the game.

Sounds a lot like a post hoc fallacy to me.

Especially considering they did call some penalties in the game before that one.

 

[unckeyherb]

This was a brutal loss, I was completely emotionally unprepared for a loss. I really didn't see Mahomes beating us (he didn't) and I was convinced that our DLine would wreck the game (they didn't). I worried that Hurts would come up small in the big game and he proved me wrong-apart from the fumble I thought he was the MVP of the game.

In the end, I've been watching Andy coach for 20 years and I really thought Sirriani was the better game-day coach. That was where I was really, really wrong. I felt great at half time. Andy and company went in at halftime, diagnosed Gannon's defense and came out to ****ing carve us up. It was a clinic and the Eagles coaching staff had no answers. It was a team loss, from Nick on down to the players. We've been bad at ST all year and it hurt us huge last night. The Dline not showing up was the reason we lost.

This is not sour grapes; the Eagles deserved to lose. But the holding call at the end of the game was a ****ing travesty. The refs set the tempo of what they would or would not call for the entire game and there NO flags in the second half. To throw a flag at that moment on such a ticky tack foul when they were not all game was just ****ed. I think we absolutely could have gone the field with 1:45 left and kicked a FG or maybe even scored a TD. But here's the thing, if we get the ball and the Eagles go 3 and out, okay. We had a shot and the Chiefs D did their job. I can swallow that loss. This loss I can't. They basically took away any chance for the Eagles to mount one last drive and put it on the defense to stop us. It was beyond egregious..

It is what it is. I think the Eagles will back in the Super Bowl in the next few years.

Good post. Regarding their quick strike effectiveness, has Philly had many last minute comebacks? Their offense strikes me as more of a run/short-pass offense that might have difficulty up against the clock.

No. Opposite. They generally get out in front and then run the ball down the opposing teams' throat. That being said, the drive before, they need to march down the field and score 8 points and they did exactly that.

Yeah I don't see this loss as being on the Eagles' offense at all. I thought all personnel played great, Hurts could have been the MVP despite the loss, and their OC was phenomenal (and is apparently headed to the Colts with this exclamation point on his resume). One bad play with the Hurts fumble but those things happen.

I do agree with the statement that they could have gone down and scored. Heck if the Chiefs scored the three and kicked off with 1:50 remaining or anything I would have bet the Eagles tied it. But, the loss instead falls on the defense (and not the tough call). As such, I don't agree with any sentiment(s) suggesting the refs blew this game, the better team lost, etc.

yeah I generally agree and have said basically the same thing. The flag is not why the Birds lost, but it definitely gave away any chance they had of winning at the end of the game.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

There's no controversy with the individual ref. It's with the league in general. No consistency. Let holding go the whole game then call it to end the game.

Did they? Or were calls missed because they weren't seen because the defenders were more subtle about it?

Do you think this referee saw this same penalty multiple times and let it go, only to call this one?

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

This is not sour grapes; the Eagles deserved to lose. But the holding call at the end of the game was a ****ing travesty. The refs set the tempo of what they would or would not call for the entire game and there NO flags in the second half. To throw a flag at that moment on such a ticky tack foul when they were not all game was just ****ed. I think we absolutely could have gone the field with 1:45 left and kicked a FG or maybe even scored a TD. But here's the thing, if we get the ball and the Eagles go 3 and out, okay. We had a shot and the Chiefs D did their job. I can swallow that loss. This loss I can't. They basically took away any chance for the Eagles to mount one last drive and put it on the defense to stop us. It was beyond egregious..

Both teams had a drive eliminated by the officiating and the Chiefs drive was more egregious. It was just in the 1st half and they won, so hardly anyone is talking about it.

Some great/classic ending was all we were robbed of, but the call was a 60/40 call that gets made more often than not throughout the season.

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's the biggest game of their careers, so just like a player who may slightly miss a throw/catch/shot, etc. because they are too excited or caught up in the moment, a ref can miss a call because they are too excited. I'm sure in retrospect after watching film he wishes he'd let it go, but it was a justifiable penalty and he saw enough at the time to throw the flag. He likely asked the sideline official and back judge what they thought here, but if no one took him off it he had enough to stick with the call.

It's not egregious or a travesty, its just an unfortunate case of humanity in a game played and officiated by humans.

I think the thing that too many people forget is that the officials are part of the humanity of sports. They aren't a faceless robot with no skin in the game, but humans doing their very best (at least the majority of the time and certainly at this level). To err is human and all....

I get it, but honestly, they let them play all game long, setting a precedent for what is and isn't allowed. Again there were no flags thrown in the second half although that level of contact was happening all game. In the biggest moment, when a 3rd down conversion basically ends the game they decided to throw a towel at an EXTREMELY ticky tack play that had no effect on the play. These guys should have some situational awareness. FWIW, that was a late-*** flag too.

No effect on the play? He held the very guy Mahomes threw too. IMO it was late because they only called it because the hold had a direct impact on the play.

Also, “EXTREMELY ticky tack”? He had a fistful of jersey and held him twice. If he didn’t hold him he would have dusted the defender and been to the wide open spot Mahomes threw to.


ETA - I totally understand your frustration and I would normally be sympathetic but I’ve had my heart broken in similar fashion so many times I can’t be.

 

[unckeyherb]

There's no controversy with the individual ref. It's with the league in general. No consistency. Let holding go the whole game then call it to end the game.

Did they? Or were calls missed because they weren't seen because the defenders were more subtle about it?

Do you think this referee so this same penalty multiple times and let it go, only to call this one?

yes? There are always times where holds go unflagged, basically every play in the trenches. Just Win Baby pointed out a specific one that was more egregious than this one. Whatever, again its not why they lost, but at the end of one of the better Super Bowls I've ever watched, the game (and the Eagles season) gets decided by a ref calling a penalty that was highly questionable and had been allowed a bunch earlier in the game. Its akin to an ump establishing a tight strike zone throughout the game and then in the bottom of the ninth calling strikes below the knees. Its just not how the last game of the year should be decided.

 

[efactor]

If Mahomes doesn’t throw the ball to the guy being held it might be a discussion. I don’t know if Mahomes saw the hold and purposefully threw it to JuJu or not but QBs like Rodgers and Mahomes do this all the time.

Savvy QBs always look for DPI or holding.

Is Savvy code for whiney now? Virtually every passing play that's incomplete has either a QB or a receiver calling for a flag. Nothing Savvy about it.

 

[unckeyherb]

This is not sour grapes; the Eagles deserved to lose. But the holding call at the end of the game was a ****ing travesty. The refs set the tempo of what they would or would not call for the entire game and there NO flags in the second half. To throw a flag at that moment on such a ticky tack foul when they were not all game was just ****ed. I think we absolutely could have gone the field with 1:45 left and kicked a FG or maybe even scored a TD. But here's the thing, if we get the ball and the Eagles go 3 and out, okay. We had a shot and the Chiefs D did their job. I can swallow that loss. This loss I can't. They basically took away any chance for the Eagles to mount one last drive and put it on the defense to stop us. It was beyond egregious..

Both teams had a drive eliminated by the officiating and the Chiefs drive was more egregious. It was just in the 1st half and they won, so hardly anyone is talking about it.

Some great/classic ending was all we were robbed of, but the call was a 60/40 call that gets made more often than not throughout the season.

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's the biggest game of their careers, so just like a player who may slightly miss a throw/catch/shot, etc. because they are too excited or caught up in the moment, a ref can miss a call because they are too excited. I'm sure in retrospect after watching film he wishes he'd let it go, but it was a justifiable penalty and he saw enough at the time to throw the flag. He likely asked the sideline official and back judge what they thought here, but if no one took him off it he had enough to stick with the call.

It's not egregious or a travesty, its just an unfortunate case of humanity in a game played and officiated by humans.

I think the thing that too many people forget is that the officials are part of the humanity of sports. They aren't a faceless robot with no skin in the game, but humans doing their very best (at least the majority of the time and certainly at this level). To err is human and all....

I get it, but honestly, they let them play all game long, setting a precedent for what is and isn't allowed. Again there were no flags thrown in the second half although that level of contact was happening all game. In the biggest moment, when a 3rd down conversion basically ends the game they decided to throw a towel at an EXTREMELY ticky tack play that had no effect on the play. These guys should have some situational awareness. FWIW, that was a late-*** flag too.

No effect on the play? He held the very guy Mahomes threw too. IMO it was late because they only called it because the hold had a direct impact on the play.

Also, “EXTREMELY ticky tack”? He had a fistful of jersey and held him twice. If he didn’t hold him he would have dusted the defender and been to the wide open spot Mahomes threw to.


ETA - I totally understand your frustration and I would normally be sympathetic but I’ve had my heart broken in similar fashion so many times I can’t be.

https://twitter.com/footballzebras/status/1624971786470281223?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1624971786470281223%7Ctwgr%5E1615ced9b38bb5ccd5d843b9f1cc640dbf341c5b%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbnation.com%2Fnfl%2F2023%2F2%2F12%2F23597193%2Fsuper-bowl-holding-penalty-video-chiefs-eagles-2023

You explain to me where he had a fistful of jersey and held him twice. And no, he wouldn't have dusted the defender.

 

[unckeyherb]

This is not sour grapes; the Eagles deserved to lose. But the holding call at the end of the game was a ****ing travesty. The refs set the tempo of what they would or would not call for the entire game and there NO flags in the second half. To throw a flag at that moment on such a ticky tack foul when they were not all game was just ****ed. I think we absolutely could have gone the field with 1:45 left and kicked a FG or maybe even scored a TD. But here's the thing, if we get the ball and the Eagles go 3 and out, okay. We had a shot and the Chiefs D did their job. I can swallow that loss. This loss I can't. They basically took away any chance for the Eagles to mount one last drive and put it on the defense to stop us. It was beyond egregious..

Both teams had a drive eliminated by the officiating and the Chiefs drive was more egregious. It was just in the 1st half and they won, so hardly anyone is talking about it.

Some great/classic ending was all we were robbed of, but the call was a 60/40 call that gets made more often than not throughout the season.

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's the biggest game of their careers, so just like a player who may slightly miss a throw/catch/shot, etc. because they are too excited or caught up in the moment, a ref can miss a call because they are too excited. I'm sure in retrospect after watching film he wishes he'd let it go, but it was a justifiable penalty and he saw enough at the time to throw the flag. He likely asked the sideline official and back judge what they thought here, but if no one took him off it he had enough to stick with the call.

It's not egregious or a travesty, its just an unfortunate case of humanity in a game played and officiated by humans.

I think the thing that too many people forget is that the officials are part of the humanity of sports. They aren't a faceless robot with no skin in the game, but humans doing their very best (at least the majority of the time and certainly at this level). To err is human and all....

I get it, but honestly, they let them play all game long, setting a precedent for what is and isn't allowed. Again there were no flags thrown in the second half although that level of contact was happening all game. In the biggest moment, when a 3rd down conversion basically ends the game they decided to throw a towel at an EXTREMELY ticky tack play that had no effect on the play. These guys should have some situational awareness. FWIW, that was a late-*** flag too.

I'm not sure we can definitively say the bold. It probably had little to a marginal impact, but the guy was the intended target and he was held for a brief moment.

Take a look at the replay I just posted and tell me what effect there was.

 

[efactor]

This is not sour grapes; the Eagles deserved to lose. But the holding call at the end of the game was a ****ing travesty. The refs set the tempo of what they would or would not call for the entire game and there NO flags in the second half. To throw a flag at that moment on such a ticky tack foul when they were not all game was just ****ed. I think we absolutely could have gone the field with 1:45 left and kicked a FG or maybe even scored a TD. But here's the thing, if we get the ball and the Eagles go 3 and out, okay. We had a shot and the Chiefs D did their job. I can swallow that loss. This loss I can't. They basically took away any chance for the Eagles to mount one last drive and put it on the defense to stop us. It was beyond egregious..

Both teams had a drive eliminated by the officiating and the Chiefs drive was more egregious. It was just in the 1st half and they won, so hardly anyone is talking about it.

Some great/classic ending was all we were robbed of, but the call was a 60/40 call that gets made more often than not throughout the season.

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's the biggest game of their careers, so just like a player who may slightly miss a throw/catch/shot, etc. because they are too excited or caught up in the moment, a ref can miss a call because they are too excited. I'm sure in retrospect after watching film he wishes he'd let it go, but it was a justifiable penalty and he saw enough at the time to throw the flag. He likely asked the sideline official and back judge what they thought here, but if no one took him off it he had enough to stick with the call.

It's not egregious or a travesty, its just an unfortunate case of humanity in a game played and officiated by humans.

I think the thing that too many people forget is that the officials are part of the humanity of sports. They aren't a faceless robot with no skin in the game, but humans doing their very best (at least the majority of the time and certainly at this level). To err is human and all....

I get it, but honestly, they let them play all game long, setting a precedent for what is and isn't allowed. Again there were no flags thrown in the second half although that level of contact was happening all game. In the biggest moment, when a 3rd down conversion basically ends the game they decided to throw a towel at an EXTREMELY ticky tack play that had no effect on the play. These guys should have some situational awareness. FWIW, that was a late-*** flag too.

I'm not sure we can definitively say the bold. It probably had little to a marginal impact, but the guy was the intended target and he was held for a brief moment.

Take a look at the replay I just posted and tell me what effect there was.

Not an Eagles fan, but it's crystal clear that the play wasn't impacted. Total BS call and took away from what was an excellent game.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

EXTREMELY ticky tack play that had no effect on the play.

How did that have no effect on the play? It was literally the guy he was trying to throw the ball to. If JJSS wasn't held he would have separated and it would have been as easy a throw as his other two TD passes.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

This is not sour grapes; the Eagles deserved to lose. But the holding call at the end of the game was a ****ing travesty. The refs set the tempo of what they would or would not call for the entire game and there NO flags in the second half. To throw a flag at that moment on such a ticky tack foul when they were not all game was just ****ed. I think we absolutely could have gone the field with 1:45 left and kicked a FG or maybe even scored a TD. But here's the thing, if we get the ball and the Eagles go 3 and out, okay. We had a shot and the Chiefs D did their job. I can swallow that loss. This loss I can't. They basically took away any chance for the Eagles to mount one last drive and put it on the defense to stop us. It was beyond egregious..

Both teams had a drive eliminated by the officiating and the Chiefs drive was more egregious. It was just in the 1st half and they won, so hardly anyone is talking about it.

Some great/classic ending was all we were robbed of, but the call was a 60/40 call that gets made more often than not throughout the season.

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's the biggest game of their careers, so just like a player who may slightly miss a throw/catch/shot, etc. because they are too excited or caught up in the moment, a ref can miss a call because they are too excited. I'm sure in retrospect after watching film he wishes he'd let it go, but it was a justifiable penalty and he saw enough at the time to throw the flag. He likely asked the sideline official and back judge what they thought here, but if no one took him off it he had enough to stick with the call.

It's not egregious or a travesty, its just an unfortunate case of humanity in a game played and officiated by humans.

I think the thing that too many people forget is that the officials are part of the humanity of sports. They aren't a faceless robot with no skin in the game, but humans doing their very best (at least the majority of the time and certainly at this level). To err is human and all....

I get it, but honestly, they let them play all game long, setting a precedent for what is and isn't allowed. Again there were no flags thrown in the second half although that level of contact was happening all game. In the biggest moment, when a 3rd down conversion basically ends the game they decided to throw a towel at an EXTREMELY ticky tack play that had no effect on the play. These guys should have some situational awareness. FWIW, that was a late-*** flag too.

No effect on the play? He held the very guy Mahomes threw too. IMO it was late because they only called it because the hold had a direct impact on the play.

Also, “EXTREMELY ticky tack”? He had a fistful of jersey and held him twice. If he didn’t hold him he would have dusted the defender and been to the wide open spot Mahomes threw to.


ETA - I totally understand your frustration and I would normally be sympathetic but I’ve had my heart broken in similar fashion so many times I can’t be.

https://twitter.com/footballzebras/status/1624971786470281223?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1624971786470281223%7Ctwgr%5E1615ced9b38bb5ccd5d843b9f1cc640dbf341c5b%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbnation.com%2Fnfl%2F2023%2F2%2F12%2F23597193%2Fsuper-bowl-holding-penalty-video-chiefs-eagles-2023

You explain to me where he had a fistful of jersey and held him twice. And no, he wouldn't have dusted the defender.

Uh, he is literally holding his entire arm and hand on the first hold. Then he is pulling at the back of his jersey as the receiver turns upfield.

I played CB. That’s a penalty.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

If Mahomes doesn’t throw the ball to the guy being held it might be a discussion. I don’t know if Mahomes saw the hold and purposefully threw it to JuJu or not but QBs like Rodgers and Mahomes do this all the time.

Savvy QBs always look for DPI or holding.

Is Savvy code for whiney now? Virtually every passing play that's incomplete has either a QB or a receiver calling for a flag. Nothing Savvy about it.

No, but seeing a player being held or experiencing DPI and targeting that player is a smart QB play.

Some have been notoriously good exploiting it over the years. Brady, ARod, etc.

Some do get whiny when they don’t get those calls. That’s a separate subject.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

This is not sour grapes; the Eagles deserved to lose. But the holding call at the end of the game was a ****ing travesty. The refs set the tempo of what they would or would not call for the entire game and there NO flags in the second half. To throw a flag at that moment on such a ticky tack foul when they were not all game was just ****ed. I think we absolutely could have gone the field with 1:45 left and kicked a FG or maybe even scored a TD. But here's the thing, if we get the ball and the Eagles go 3 and out, okay. We had a shot and the Chiefs D did their job. I can swallow that loss. This loss I can't. They basically took away any chance for the Eagles to mount one last drive and put it on the defense to stop us. It was beyond egregious..

Both teams had a drive eliminated by the officiating and the Chiefs drive was more egregious. It was just in the 1st half and they won, so hardly anyone is talking about it.

Some great/classic ending was all we were robbed of, but the call was a 60/40 call that gets made more often than not throughout the season.

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's the biggest game of their careers, so just like a player who may slightly miss a throw/catch/shot, etc. because they are too excited or caught up in the moment, a ref can miss a call because they are too excited. I'm sure in retrospect after watching film he wishes he'd let it go, but it was a justifiable penalty and he saw enough at the time to throw the flag. He likely asked the sideline official and back judge what they thought here, but if no one took him off it he had enough to stick with the call.

It's not egregious or a travesty, its just an unfortunate case of humanity in a game played and officiated by humans.

I think the thing that too many people forget is that the officials are part of the humanity of sports. They aren't a faceless robot with no skin in the game, but humans doing their very best (at least the majority of the time and certainly at this level). To err is human and all....

I get it, but honestly, they let them play all game long, setting a precedent for what is and isn't allowed. Again there were no flags thrown in the second half although that level of contact was happening all game. In the biggest moment, when a 3rd down conversion basically ends the game they decided to throw a towel at an EXTREMELY ticky tack play that had no effect on the play. These guys should have some situational awareness. FWIW, that was a late-*** flag too.

I'm not sure we can definitively say the bold. It probably had little to a marginal impact, but the guy was the intended target and he was held for a brief moment.

Take a look at the replay I just posted and tell me what effect there was.

I think...I think...I think that you just may be a bit biased.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

EXTREMELY ticky tack play that had no effect on the play.

How did that have no effect on the play? It was literally the guy he was trying to throw the ball to. If JJSS wasn't held he would have separated and it would have been as easy a throw as his other two TD passes.

Exactly.

There wouldn’t be much debate but for the dramatic re-characterization of a play we all watched, then watched in slow motion replay.

I remember in here last night we were told several times that Bradberry “never even touched” JJSS.

Cmon

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Take a look at the replay I just posted and tell me what effect there was.

When JuJu was held (TWICE) he got slowed down and wasn't able to beat the guy to the open spot in the coverage.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

There's no controversy with the individual ref. It's with the league in general. No consistency. Let holding go the whole game then call it to end the game.

Did they? Or were calls missed because they weren't seen because the defenders were more subtle about it?

Do you think this referee so this same penalty multiple times and let it go, only to call this one?

yes? There are always times where holds go unflagged, basically every play in the trenches. Just Win Baby pointed out a specific one that was more egregious than this one. Whatever, again its not why they lost, but at the end of one of the better Super Bowls I've ever watched, the game (and the Eagles season) gets decided by a ref calling a penalty that was highly questionable and had been allowed a bunch earlier in the game. Its akin to an ump establishing a tight strike zone throughout the game and then in the bottom of the ninth calling strikes below the knees. Its just not how the last game of the year should be decided.

Link

But did the officials treat Bradberry's play the same way they had treated the first three-plus quarters of the game?

"I think so," the veteran defensive back said. "They were pretty consistent for the most part. I just can't be blatant with it."

/case closed

 

[Steelers4Life]

Was it a penalty? Sure, a ticky tack one. No one can realistically dispute that when Bradburry himself says he did it. The problem is that it went on during just about every play and wasn't called the entire game UNTIL that play. It was the only holding call of the game... do people really think it was the only time anyone held? That's what makes it terrible to me. If they had set the tone that they'd have a tight whistle, fine. But it wasn't.

There's a reason JuJu didn't complain at ALL when the ball fell incomplete but went nuts earlier in the game when he knew he had been held on a crossing pattern. It was a slight tug on the jersey and some hand checking before that, but JuJu's momentum wasn't slowed down and the direction he was running wasn't impacted. Mahomes threw the ball towards the pile on and JuJu ran it farther inside... that's the reason it didn't look especially close at the end.

Chiefs fans will say it would've been an easy completion if not for the hold, but that's not what the video shows. It's convenient to think that though, and in the end it doesn't really matter.

As a football fan, it was a truly terrible way for such a great game to end. It doesn't feel like the players decided it.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

https://twitter.com/footballzebras/status/1624971786470281223?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1624971786470281223%7Ctwgr%5E1615ced9b38bb5ccd5d843b9f1cc640dbf341c5b%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbnation.com%2Fnfl%2F2023%2F2%2F12%2F23597193%2Fsuper-bowl-holding-penalty-video-chiefs-eagles-2023
You explain to me where he had a fistful of jersey and held him twice. And no, he wouldn't have dusted the defender.

Do you really believe the defender gained no advantage by the first tug on the jersey? The 5 second mark of your video really shows the effect it had. The receiver would have pulled away if not for the grab. You see his right hand swing around because of the hold.

It was subtle, but it made a difference on the play.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Was it a penalty? Sure, a ticky tack one. No one can realistically dispute that when Bradburry himself says he did it. The problem is that it went on during just about every play and wasn't called the entire game UNTIL that play. It was the only holding call of the game... do people really think it was the only time anyone held? That's what makes it terrible to me. If they had set the tone that they'd have a tight whistle, fine. But it wasn't.

There's a reason JuJu didn't complain at ALL when the ball fell incomplete but went nuts earlier in the game when he knew he had been held on a crossing pattern. It was a slight tug on the jersey and some hand checking before that, but JuJu's momentum wasn't slowed down and the direction he was running wasn't impacted. Mahomes threw the ball towards the pile on and JuJu ran it farther inside... that's the reason it didn't look especially close at the end.

Chiefs fans will say it would've been an easy completion if not for the hold, but that's not what the video shows. It's convenient to think that though, and in the end it doesn't really matter.

As a football fan, it was a truly terrible way for such a great game to end. It doesn't feel like the players decided it.

You guys must have a different replay in the state of Pennsylvania

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

This is not sour grapes; the Eagles deserved to lose. But the holding call at the end of the game was a ****ing travesty. The refs set the tempo of what they would or would not call for the entire game and there NO flags in the second half. To throw a flag at that moment on such a ticky tack foul when they were not all game was just ****ed. I think we absolutely could have gone the field with 1:45 left and kicked a FG or maybe even scored a TD. But here's the thing, if we get the ball and the Eagles go 3 and out, okay. We had a shot and the Chiefs D did their job. I can swallow that loss. This loss I can't. They basically took away any chance for the Eagles to mount one last drive and put it on the defense to stop us. It was beyond egregious..

Both teams had a drive eliminated by the officiating and the Chiefs drive was more egregious. It was just in the 1st half and they won, so hardly anyone is talking about it.

Some great/classic ending was all we were robbed of, but the call was a 60/40 call that gets made more often than not throughout the season.

It's a big moment for the officials also and they actually start to see things as slower than normal due to their own adrenaline. I'm sure that hold looked bigger than **** to the ref who threw the flag. I'm sorry, but the human nature of subjective fouls (like defensive holding) lends itself to this kind of call in a huge moment because officials are humans with emotions and adrenaline as well. It's the biggest game of their careers, so just like a player who may slightly miss a throw/catch/shot, etc. because they are too excited or caught up in the moment, a ref can miss a call because they are too excited. I'm sure in retrospect after watching film he wishes he'd let it go, but it was a justifiable penalty and he saw enough at the time to throw the flag. He likely asked the sideline official and back judge what they thought here, but if no one took him off it he had enough to stick with the call.

It's not egregious or a travesty, its just an unfortunate case of humanity in a game played and officiated by humans.

I think the thing that too many people forget is that the officials are part of the humanity of sports. They aren't a faceless robot with no skin in the game, but humans doing their very best (at least the majority of the time and certainly at this level). To err is human and all....

I get it, but honestly, they let them play all game long, setting a precedent for what is and isn't allowed. Again there were no flags thrown in the second half although that level of contact was happening all game. In the biggest moment, when a 3rd down conversion basically ends the game they decided to throw a towel at an EXTREMELY ticky tack play that had no effect on the play. These guys should have some situational awareness. FWIW, that was a late-*** flag too.

No effect on the play? He held the very guy Mahomes threw too. IMO it was late because they only called it because the hold had a direct impact on the play.

Also, “EXTREMELY ticky tack”? He had a fistful of jersey and held him twice. If he didn’t hold him he would have dusted the defender and been to the wide open spot Mahomes threw to.


ETA - I totally understand your frustration and I would normally be sympathetic but I’ve had my heart broken in similar fashion so many times I can’t be.

https://twitter.com/footballzebras/status/1624971786470281223?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1624971786470281223%7Ctwgr%5E1615ced9b38bb5ccd5d843b9f1cc640dbf341c5b%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbnation.com%2Fnfl%2F2023%2F2%2F12%2F23597193%2Fsuper-bowl-holding-penalty-video-chiefs-eagles-2023

You explain to me where he had a fistful of jersey and held him twice. And no, he wouldn't have dusted the defender.

You’re using an interesting clip.

Here’s a full breakdown. It’s clearly and obviously a hold.

To those arguing “well they don’t always call that” - I’ve agreed with y’all.

But the take that it’s not even a penalty based on a selective camera angle is ice cold.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

https://twitter.com/footballzebras/...bowl-holding-penalty-video-chiefs-eagles-2023
You explain to me where he had a fistful of jersey and held him twice. And no, he wouldn't have dusted the defender.

Do you really believe the defender gained no advantage by the first tug on the jersey? The 5 second mark of your video really shows the effect it had. The receiver would have pulled away if not for the grab. You see his right hand swing around because of the hold.

It was subtle, but it made a difference on the play.

Exactly - the only thing that shot has going for it is a favorable camera angle. From the other side he has a handful of jersey.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Chiefs fans will say it would've been an easy completion if not for the hold, but that's not what the video shows.

I am not a Chiefs fan or an Eagles hater - but it is what the video shows. JJJS, broke away from the around the waist hold and had the back of his jersey pulled and held which slowed him down. I think you have to be by the guy already for him to be able to pull the back of your jersey.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Was it a penalty? Sure, a ticky tack one. No one can realistically dispute that when Bradburry himself says he did it. The problem is that it went on during just about every play and wasn't called the entire game UNTIL that play. It was the only holding call of the game... do people really think it was the only time anyone held? That's what makes it terrible to me. If they had set the tone that they'd have a tight whistle, fine. But it wasn't.

There's a reason JuJu didn't complain at ALL when the ball fell incomplete but went nuts earlier in the game when he knew he had been held on a crossing pattern. It was a slight tug on the jersey and some hand checking before that, but JuJu's momentum wasn't slowed down and the direction he was running wasn't impacted. Mahomes threw the ball towards the pile on and JuJu ran it farther inside... that's the reason it didn't look especially close at the end.

Chiefs fans will say it would've been an easy completion if not for the hold, but that's not what the video shows. It's convenient to think that though, and in the end it doesn't really matter.

As a football fan, it was a truly terrible way for such a great game to end. It doesn't feel like the players decided it.

You guys must have a different replay in the state of Philadelphia.

I'm in Charlotte, from Pittsburgh, and a Steelers fan, don't know what replays in Philly show. I don't like or hate either team and had no rooting or betting interest. Honestly, I couldn't care less who won.

But anyone that can look at JuJu's stride and direction and think anything Bradbury did had an impact on it isn't paying attention. JuJu ran to the wrong spot and slowed down when he had to look back over his shoulder and adjust at the end.

It's the lack of consistency that's troubling. To have that be the only holding call of the entire game? C'mon now.

Chiefs fans should just own it... they got the benefit of a very ticky tack penalty that allowed them to ice the game and took Philly's chance to come back away. Maybe the Chiefs would have held the Eagles and won anyways. Wish we could've seen it... it was too good of a game to end like that.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Was it a penalty? Sure, a ticky tack one. No one can realistically dispute that when Bradburry himself says he did it. The problem is that it went on during just about every play and wasn't called the entire game UNTIL that play. It was the only holding call of the game... do people really think it was the only time anyone held? That's what makes it terrible to me. If they had set the tone that they'd have a tight whistle, fine. But it wasn't.

There's a reason JuJu didn't complain at ALL when the ball fell incomplete but went nuts earlier in the game when he knew he had been held on a crossing pattern. It was a slight tug on the jersey and some hand checking before that, but JuJu's momentum wasn't slowed down and the direction he was running wasn't impacted. Mahomes threw the ball towards the pile on and JuJu ran it farther inside... that's the reason it didn't look especially close at the end.

Chiefs fans will say it would've been an easy completion if not for the hold, but that's not what the video shows. It's convenient to think that though, and in the end it doesn't really matter.

As a football fan, it was a truly terrible way for such a great game to end. It doesn't feel like the players decided it.

Watch this video. It was not ticky tack. It’s a penalty. And not even a subtle penalty.

How Bradberry holding penalty changed final minutes

Mike Florio and Chris Simms explain why James Bradberry’s holding penalty was the right call and why it doesn’t matter that the ball was uncatchable, because it wasn’t pass interference.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[bostonfred]

If your team is really better it should never come down to one call. Win the freaking game or go home

This isn't about which team should have won. I don't care who won. I don't like either team, i didn't bet anything, didn't have any pools or squares I was just watching a game.

There was a massive conflict of interest with 70 percent of the money coming in on the Bengals and eagles. Both games were competitive and both ended with ticky tack calls in the final drive that absolutely did decide the outcomes.

You can argue that the Bengals and eagles should have done more earlier to win the game but to me this isn't about sour grapes over who won. Lots of teams have benefitted from or been hurt by calls in the playoffs and I generally say what you said.

This was different. These weren't just big calls, they were both game-deciding calls, in both games, with enormous money on both sides. Calls that you don't expect to get made where they were. Whether you agree or disagree with the calls, or believe that the best team won, or even that the plays were penalties, is all irrelevant.

In back to bsck games, one person with a whistle made a judgement call and it decided the outcome in a way that won Vegas money. I don't have faith that the league will do anything to address the conduct of interest. And it has shaken my interest in the NFL going forward

Like most Pats Championships. **** happens.

This isn't about Fandom. This is about the NFL breaking decades of not having a team in Vegas or officially supporting gambling. That changed two years ago and we just watched billions of dollars decided on two end of game calls. Regardless of what you thought about the outcome that should be concerning.

No, it really shouldn't.

This has to be the most irrational I've seen you. It was a close call at the end of a tight game. Officiating is hard. That's it.

As somebody stated above both Vegas and the NFL have too much to lose should they engage in any nefarious activities. Risking the status quo just isn't worth it and, again, that probably should have been a no-call but it was a hold by definition of the rule so it's not like some horribly egregious call.

You don't think it's concerning.
That doesn't mean it's not concerning for anyone.

The NFL hurt their brand when they decided to embrace gambling. If you don't believe me, ask the NFL's own lawyers who said as much prior to the court decision that opened up sports gambling.

Was there some grand conspiracy? Probably not. Did a single ref make a single decision that effectively won casinos billions of dollars that were still very much in doubt? Yes. That doesn't mean that anything illegal occurred. But as a lawyer, you of all people should be aware of conflicts of interest.

You wouldn't trust a judge whose daughter was divorcing your client any more than I trust the NFL to make a decision that could cost its new partners and customers billions.

That conflict of interest was on display last night and it impacted my interest in the league.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

But anyone that can look at JuJu's stride and direction and think anything Bradbury did had an impact on it isn't paying attention. JuJu ran to the wrong spot and slowed down when he had to look back over his shoulder and adjust at the end.

I was paying rapt attention, thanks.

It’s obvious that Juju was beating Bradberry, and Bradberry grabbed his jersey, which stretched & slowed down Juju’s break for the play.

It very obviously impeded his motion. Cmon.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Was there some grand conspiracy? Probably not. Did a single ref make a single decision that effectively won casinos billions of dollars that were still very much in doubt? Yes

The decision to correctly call a holding penalty? Yes.

That’s where you lose me, GB.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

some of you could come over to my house, have some beers and food.

Was it a penalty? Sure, a ticky tack one. No one can realistically dispute that when Bradburry himself says he did it. The problem is that it went on during just about every play and wasn't called the entire game UNTIL that play. It was the only holding call of the game... do people really think it was the only time anyone held? That's what makes it terrible to me. If they had set the tone that they'd have a tight whistle, fine. But it wasn't.

There's a reason JuJu didn't complain at ALL when the ball fell incomplete but went nuts earlier in the game when he knew he had been held on a crossing pattern. It was a slight tug on the jersey and some hand checking before that, but JuJu's momentum wasn't slowed down and the direction he was running wasn't impacted. Mahomes threw the ball towards the pile on and JuJu ran it farther inside... that's the reason it didn't look especially close at the end.

Chiefs fans will say it would've been an easy completion if not for the hold, but that's not what the video shows. It's convenient to think that though, and in the end it doesn't really matter.

As a football fan, it was a truly terrible way for such a great game to end. It doesn't feel like the players decided it.

You guys must have a different replay in the state of Philadelphia.

I'm in Charlotte, from Pittsburgh, and a Steelers fan, don't know what replays in Philly show. I don't like or hate either team and had no rooting or betting interest. Honestly, I couldn't care less who won.

But anyone that can look at JuJu's stride and direction and think anything Bradbury did had an impact on it isn't paying attention. JuJu ran to the wrong spot and slowed down when he had to look back over his shoulder and adjust at the end.

It's the lack of consistency that's troubling. To have that be the only holding call of the entire game? C'mon now.

Chiefs fans should just own it... they got the benefit of a very ticky tack penalty that allowed them to ice the game and took Philly's chance to come back away. Maybe the Chiefs would have held the Eagles and won anyways. Wish we could've seen it... it was too good of a game to end like that.

I know man, I was just kidding a little. I agree with you for the most part. I understand everything you’re saying.

However-

Bradberry literally said that the refs were being very consistent. He admires fault.

I’m not sure there’s even an argument to be had here other than - should the NFL just swallow the whistle? If they do that, what will NFL defenders do knowing that? Actual murder?

 

[Rubi]

But anyone that can look at JuJu's stride and direction and think anything Bradbury did had an impact on it isn't paying attention. JuJu ran to the wrong spot and slowed down when he had to look back over his shoulder and adjust at the end.

I was paying rapt attention, thanks.

It’s obvious that Juju was beating Bradberry, and Bradberry grabbed his jersey, which stretched & slowed down Juju’s break for the play.

It very obviously impeded his motion. Cmon.

And Bradberry in an interview said he grabbed him and it was the right call