*** T.O. suspension *** (1 Viewer)

[JAA]

The funny part is I am one of the biggest Eagle homer's on this board. I just dont like how they handled this entire situaition from the start. I saw this coming the second Owens said he wanted a new contract. We all know TO and Drew first tried to work this out behind closed doors, that is simply how business is done. The Eagles then should have known that when they said "no" to TO, #### would hit the fan.You want to throw TO's 46 million dollar contract in his face? Garuntee it then. You want to say that if TO continues to perform on par, he will get the roster bonus he is due? Pay him by the game output this season.My Take:The Eagles knew all along they would can TO after this season. They never had any intention of paying him that roster bonus. To wanted to stay an Eagle and knew the only way that would happen would be if the Phi FO committed more 4 to him. They only way for that to happen would be through a contract renegotiation.If TO only cared about the money, he would have played through this season being the allstar he always is. He would have been cut and gotten another signing bonus thus making even more money. Drew and TO both knew this, the money would be in getting cut.

 

[Gr00vus]

Fact: You cant blame TO for actions that we all saw coming

That's not a fact at all.

Before the season started, he said that he would be a huge distraction if the Eagles didn't renegotiate his contract.

Really?

 

[JAA]

You guys just have completely different perspectives on this. There's no way to resolve it except by giving us each our own NFL franchises and seeing how we do with them.

I'm game for that if we can convince the rest of the league.

Otherwise, this discussion is pretty useless.

I will garuntee you 4 straight NFCCG losses

 

[JAA]

Large business environment? A football team isn't a business environment. It's a football team.

You don't honestly believe that do you? The setting may be a practice field or a stadium, but at the end of the day it is very much a business environment - particularly in the areas which are being discussed here, it's all business.

A football team -- on the field and in the locker room -- operates a lot more like a military unit than a business. Coaches yell and scream a lot -- a lot more than mid-level managers do. They cuss. They get physical. Players have to suck it up and overcome physical pain and exhaustion, and they have to throw their bodies all over the field with reckless abandon. They have to take a crushing hit and get back up and continue to play fearlessly. They have to carry out their assignment by doing whatever the coach says instead of thinking for themselves. They have to go along with the program completely, trusting their coaches and teammates.That's like a business environment?

Youre way of base here. In the military you have no power as a participant. It is quite the opposite in the NFL. Not only do you have a say, but you have a spotlight to say it on.

 

[JAA]

Fact:  You cant blame TO for actions that we all saw coming

That's not a fact at all.

How is it not?

 

[dgreen]

What Owens is hardly as disruptive as what Taylor did.

Obviously not.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Fact: You cant blame TO for actions that we all saw coming

That's not a fact at all.

Before the season started, he said that he would be a huge distraction if the Eagles didn't renegotiate his contract.

Really?

Yes, really. You blame people for their own behavior. I think it's amazingly obvious, so I won't elaborate.

 

[kclien]

Having a guy like TO on the club, with his constant distractions and his refusal to go along with the team, makes it nearly impossible to have a winning franchise.

Please explain to me why Trotter, Dawkins, and the entire WR core wanted TO back?

They don't know as much as Andy Reid about managing a football team.

This dissent alone is a pretty big knock on Reid's ability to manage a football team. He should have had the players on the same page once it was clear what the plan for TO was.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Fact: You cant blame TO for actions that we all saw coming

That's not a fact at all.

How is it not?

Seriously?If I know that Al-Qaeda is going to continue to blow things up, I can't blame them for it?

What kind of crazy moral reasoning is that?

 

[Koya]

A cancer that caused what? The Eagles to lose games? DMac to get injured? What cancer are we talking about? What did TO do that is directly related to the Eagles losing games?

Please. Stop apologizing for this guy. He doesnt deserve it.He is directly responsible for causing such friction and distraction in a TEAM GAME that is destroyed the fabric of what made a very very good team a cohesive unit.

This is not rocket science. If you can not see his DIRECT impact, and would instead need to see him purposely miss blocks or drop balls to call his impact on the team direct, then perhaps you should look a bit more closely at the situation.

It is as if Owens made a traffic light green for both ways to an intersection, and you would claim he was not directly responsible for any ensuing accident.

WOW. You're on fire in both forums this week.Please tell me how you have any knowledge of the dynamic in the Eagle's locker room? How do you explain away the fact that several teammate sided with TO.

The only "friction" was between McNabb and his posse and TO. They faught like babies, and both cost eachother greatness in what they could have done togehter. But make no mistake, McNabb needs TO (or another top 3 wideout) more than TO needs him. TO will be a monster anywhere. McNabb will go back to his overhyped mediocrity next year (unless they pry Reggie away).

However, you are so quick to diagnose something without actually being in the room to understand the problem. Let me guess...Adam Scheffer told you

The Eagles are equally responsible...ses above post.

Having played in team sports, including and especially football, I have some understanding of a team dynamic. If EVERY player were against TO, it might not have been an issue.But when you have a narcissist that couldn't care less about others divide a locker room without ANY care for the represucssions, that is a strain that can destroy a team unless everything runs smoothly. Last year, things ran smoothly. this year you had some bumps in the road... you'll notice that TO started to ramp up his criticisms of McNabb just when McNabb started to hurt/struggle - which is typical TO and typical of a narcissist of his ilk - wait until someone else has a moment of weakness, then capitalize it to put your efforts in a better light.

TO might not be the only reason the Eagles fell flat on their face this year.

But he is the biggest. And the most easily remedied (get rid of him or even better in hindsight, should not have signed him)

 

[Koya]

TO is the single biggest reason the Eagles season blew up in their face.  Now, you can blame management for how they handled him, or for signing him in the first place (ding ding ding!), but that guy ripped apart a locker room and a team...

which is why he is such a poor NFL player, even if his skills are better than anyone at his position.  Just not someone for a team game. 

You've got to be kidding me. Look at the Eagles' record this year with Owens and without. The single biggest reason the Eagles season started out slow was that McNabb was hurt. The single biggest reason the Eagles season blew up in their face was that they benched/inactivated Owens for saying so. As for your comment that he's a poor player and can't win in a team game, how come both the 49ers and Eagles improved so much when he became their #1 WR, and dropped off so much when he wasn't? Have you already forgotten that Owens almost won the Superbowl for them while playing through an injury that the doctors said would take him a couple more weeks to heal?

If TO had EVER done the right thing in his professional career - in San Fran, in demanding trades, in redemanding trades after getting a trade, in signing a contract with conditions and then breaking those conditions while ALSO asking for a raise... then you could blame the Eagles.

No, you can specifically blame the Eagles for taking him on when they knew Owens' history of saying the wrong thing, and they knew that they would bench/suspend him if he said the wrong thing. If they knew they weren't going to be flexible, they shouldn't have taken him on. You can specifically blame the Eagles for not doing all they can to win this season. Ending Owens' season did not help them as a team. And next year, Owens was gone anyways, so it's not like they've helped themselves as a team.

I disagree with your romantic notion that the Eagles are making a bold statement against Owens' actions. They're being vindictive, trying to save themselves some money, and using this to try to strengthen their bargaining position in future contract negotiations. I believe that the net gain they received from that last point was not worth giving up this season, which contributed to my belief that they made a terrible decision for the team.

TO brought this on himself.  100%.  Anyone who apologizes for his actions must not be thinking straight. 

I don't apologize for his actions. But I do think his actions weren't as bad as the hype ESPN gave them, that the Eagles overreacted, and that it cost them their season. Those are separate issues, as far as I'm concerned - you don't have to think Owens was right, to think that the Eagles have screwed up.

You make some good points. The Eagles are to blame (and I believe I did pin some blame on the organization for how they handled Owens and for signing him in the first place) - but Owens is the issue here.The apologists for a flat our narcissist with no care for his teammates piss me off is all. The man (owens) doesnt deserve what he got - he deserves far worse (like for one, not having made millions in the first place on a job that requires you to work within a team framework).

Owens behavior is not a mistake - it is not going off on a cop in an isolated incident, it is not a complete lack of judgement and hitting someone - it is a repeated pattern of behavior indicative of who and what TO is (and is not) as a person ... which is a narcissistic utterly self centered person devoid of caring what his actions will do to others. He is simply put, a bad person.

Not evil (i.e. if he were a repeated wife beater that didnt care), but he is a bad person. This was his comeuppance.

 

[Gr00vus]

Fact: You cant blame TO for actions that we all saw coming

That's not a fact at all.

Before the season started, he said that he would be a huge distraction if the Eagles didn't renegotiate his contract.

Really?

Yes, really. You blame people for their own behavior. I think it's amazingly obvious, so I won't elaborate.

You're playing games now - you know you took his quote out of context. He was talking about the Eagles' organization's responses to actions we all knew were coming, not Owens'.

 

[Koya]

A cancer that caused what? The Eagles to lose games? DMac to get injured? What cancer are we talking about? What did TO do that is directly related to the Eagles losing games?

Please. Stop apologizing for this guy. He doesnt deserve it.He is directly responsible for causing such friction and distraction in a TEAM GAME that is destroyed the fabric of what made a very very good team a cohesive unit.

This is not rocket science. If you can not see his DIRECT impact, and would instead need to see him purposely miss blocks or drop balls to call his impact on the team direct, then perhaps you should look a bit more closely at the situation.

It is as if Owens made a traffic light green for both ways to an intersection, and you would claim he was not directly responsible for any ensuing accident.

So your saying if TO was a perfect gentleman this season they would go to the SuperBowl?TO is no longer with the team, is (should) no longer be a distraction. Why is Philly losing. How is it TO's fault?

I am saying without TO the Eagles would probably be in the playoff hunt.Philly is losing because the fabric of the team completely and utterly fell apart during a year of derision and distraction that can be traced to ONE individual - TO.

 

[Koya]

A cancer that caused what? The Eagles to lose games? DMac to get injured? What cancer are we talking about? What did TO do that is directly related to the Eagles losing games?

Please. Stop apologizing for this guy. He doesnt deserve it.He is directly responsible for causing such friction and distraction in a TEAM GAME that is destroyed the fabric of what made a very very good team a cohesive unit.

This is not rocket science. If you can not see his DIRECT impact, and would instead need to see him purposely miss blocks or drop balls to call his impact on the team direct, then perhaps you should look a bit more closely at the situation.

It is as if Owens made a traffic light green for both ways to an intersection, and you would claim he was not directly responsible for any ensuing accident.

So your saying if TO was a perfect gentleman this season they would go to the SuperBowl?TO is no longer with the team, is (should) no longer be a distraction. Why is Philly losing. How is it TO's fault?

He's causing a distraction by suspending himself, taking himself to arbitration, holding a press conference the day of arbitration and refusing to take questions about himself, then asking the Eagles to take back 1.725 million of his signing bonus, all the time slipping further and further out of contention for the division. I can't believe that guy.

Are you suggesting that TO didn't create a distraction this year?Before the season started, he said that he would be a huge distraction if the Eagles didn't renegotiate his contract.

On that particular point, I'd say he lived up to his word.

Im saying he didnt. Im blaiming the media for the "overhype" and everyone one else in the world creating the distraction. At least any more of a distraction than most teams face every year. Romo broke a teammates face, did he get deactivated for a year? Steve Smith beat down some rookie in a meeting, did he get deactivated?For whatever reason, TO's fault or not, he creates the perfect media story. One that the media can run with till the cows come home. How long was the Stephen Davis/M Westbrook debacle?

Yeah, it is the media that made him one of the worst teammates I have EVER heard of (in the ultimate team game), a complete narcissist who goes after people when they are weak and a basical ##### who has received FAR more from the game and life than he seems to deserve. Yeah, it's the media.

 

[Koya]

Im blaiming the media for the "overhype" and everyone one else in the world creating the distraction.  At least any more of a distraction than most teams face every year.

Wow.

Romo broke a teammates face, did he get deactivated for a year?  Steve Smith beat down some rookie in a meeting, did he get deactivated?

It's a lot easier to deal with a single instance of poor behavior than a continuing refusal to get in line.Even at the arbitration hearing, TO promised to continue to be a distraction for the rest of the season. Romo and Steve Smith didn't.

For whatever reason, TO's fault or not, he creates the perfect media story.  One that the media can run with till the cows come home.  How long was the Stephen Davis/M Westbrook debacle?

This has nothing to do with the media. If the media didn't exist, TO would still be at home.

Actually, if the media didnt put ten thousand microphones up TO's ###, this would be a non-issue.Again, TO is an ###, I am not argueing this. I find it hard to believe that not only can TO help a team achieve home field advantage and perform at a MVP level in the Super Bowl and then turn around and cause a team one of its worst losing seasons in 5 years while not even allowed on teams grounds. That entire concept is preposterous.

If the Eagles were not willing to face the big bumps with TO, they should have never brought him in. Everyone knew TOs contract was bad. The NFLPA, TO, David Joseph, everybody. What did the Eagles think was going to happen? They were going to play hardball with one of the most idiotic outspoken NFL players in history? Seriously, how can the Eagles play dumb here?

If TO were not a bad person, and a worse teamate, this would be a non-issue.Don't deflect blame when it is perfectly clear that we have one party at fault here - and it is not the media. TO loved the coverage, loves the mic - its part of his makeup... and more important to him than his team or other people, certainly. That has been demonstrated repeatedly by his actions.

 

[bostonfred]

The apologists for a flat our narcissist with no care for his teammates piss me off is all. The man (owens) doesnt deserve what he got - he deserves far worse (like for one, not having made millions in the first place on a job that requires you to work within a team framework).

Not evil (i.e. if he were a repeated wife beater that didnt care), but he is a bad person. This was his comeuppance.

Like Randy McMichael? Where's the rally cry to get him suspended for nine games and take back his signing bonus?

 

[Koya]

No, the point that we are making is that it is incorrect to say "a team cannot put up with disruption from a star athlete, even if that star athlete makes their team better".

If they thought he'd make the team better (disruption and all), they'd put up with it. But they don't. And I agree with them.

It doesnt sound like you work in a large business environment. People have to put up with idiotic people (at many different levels of idiocy) every day. As a manager, it is your responsibility to get what you can from every employee. You are not always in a position to fire someone and you have a responsibility to do your job.

It is the job of a manager to have the most productive and efficient group of workers.If you had TO as any part of a team dynamic, the best advice to take would be to get rid of him - ASAP. He does not help teams win - this is demonstrated.

Yes, on the field he is great... but off the field he is even worse than he is productive on the field. Without TO, the Eagles would be a playoff team this year in all likelihood.

TO ruined the dynamic and plundered the team through his actions. But hey - go ahead and apologize for a pretty pathetic human being (in my book at least. There are few people that come to mind that I respect less than TO. Might be people I dislike more, not not respect less)

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Like Randy McMichael? Where's the rally cry to get him suspended for nine games and take back his signing bonus?

Why do you keep comparing TO to players who don't refuse to talk to their QB and their coaches?

 

[Koya]

Fact:  You can blame TO for actions that we all saw coming

That's not a fact at all.

But this is.

 

[Koya]

The apologists for a flat our narcissist with no care for his teammates piss me off is all.  The man (owens) doesnt deserve what he got - he deserves far worse (like for one, not having made millions in the first place on a job that requires you to work within a team framework).

Not evil (i.e. if he were a repeated wife beater that didnt care), but he is a bad person.  This was his comeuppance.

Like Randy McMichael? Where's the rally cry to get him suspended for nine games and take back his signing bonus?

I dont know all the details of his situation - but he did not set out to submarine the very team he was contracted to play for.This is not a judgement on those who have erred outside of the team construct. This is about TO - perhaps the worst teamate in the ultimate team game in recent memory.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I think it was Lou Holtz who said: "I'm not a great motivator. I just get rid of players who can't motivate themselves."

 

[dgreen]

Like Randy McMichael? Where's the rally cry to get him suspended for nine games and take back his signing bonus?

Why do you keep comparing TO to players who don't refuse to talk to their QB and their coaches?

Because there's great confusion on what the purpose of a football team is. If a team wants to cut a player for beating his wife, that's cool with me (assuming that's allowed in the CBA). But, their purpose is not to punish people for illegal activity. Their purpose is to win football games. Their purpose in punishment is for the improvement of the team and its chances to win football games.At my job, I don't get to kick someone off the team because they have some legal trouble. But, I can kick someone off the team for damaging the purpose of the team.

 

[bostonfred]

What Owens is hardly as disruptive as what Taylor did.

Obviously not.

He played games while high on crack cocaine. He regularly showed up late for practice -- if he showed up at all.

When asked if he demanded special treatment, he said “That's a big word. What do you mean - special treatment?” asks Taylor, laughing. “I, flexibility, I like to call it. ...Flexible. You get to be flexible with me.”

He once arrived for a team meeting in handcuffs. He claims he wasn’t arrested; he was detained, not on drug charges, but by a couple of women whose profession was definitely not law enforcement.

He got his teammates to give urine tests for him but still got caught twice and was suspended for four games.

Apparently, a better coach could handle the distractions I listed. A lesser coach couldn't handle the distractions Owens caused. As bad as Owens allegedly was, missing practices and showing up to games on crack is inarguably worse.

 

[bostonfred]

Like Randy McMichael?  Where's the rally cry to get him suspended for nine games and take back his signing bonus?

Why do you keep comparing TO to players who don't refuse to talk to their QB and their coaches?

Because Koya specifically referenced a "repeated wife beater" as being more evil than Owens? It was in the quote you snipped, but if you click on the snapback, it's still there.

 

[CalBear]

Like Randy McMichael? Where's the rally cry to get him suspended for nine games and take back his signing bonus?

Why do you keep comparing TO to players who don't refuse to talk to their QB and their coaches?

Because Koya specifically referenced a "repeated wife beater" as being more evil than Owens? It was in the quote you snipped, but if you click on the snapback, it's still there.

Whether other players in the NFL should be disciplined by their teams has no bearing on whether Owens should be disciplined by the Eagles.

 

[CalBear]

Before the season started, he said that he would be a huge distraction if the Eagles didn't renegotiate his contract.

On that particular point, I'd say he lived up to his word.

And this is exactly the point at which the Eagles organization began to fail. This was the time to take action, to figure out how to deal with the problem and to address the problem - not 7 weeks in. Everything that's come since then in relation to Owens is a direct result of their failure to handle this particular event. They already knew he was difficult to deal with, he TOLD them he'd be causing problems, and they took no substantive measures to address that until it was far too late - and when they did address it I have to say they bungled it pretty badly.

Is Owens at fault? Absolutely. But the Eagles were not prepared to successfully deal with a problem they KNEW was coming - making them nearly equally culpable in this fiasco.

I think you're totally wrong here. They took every action available to them in the pre-season; sending TO home and giving him a formal warning as to his behavior. That's what you do when you have a problem employee; you communicate the problem and document the communication. If the employee is a total screw-up, they keep behaving badly, and then you take stricter action. I'm sure if they'd just suspended him right off the bat, the TO supporters would be even more up in arms.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Before the season started, he said that he would be a huge distraction if the Eagles didn't renegotiate his contract.

On that particular point, I'd say he lived up to his word.

And this is exactly the point at which the Eagles organization began to fail. This was the time to take action, to figure out how to deal with the problem and to address the problem - not 7 weeks in. Everything that's come since then in relation to Owens is a direct result of their failure to handle this particular event. They already knew he was difficult to deal with, he TOLD them he'd be causing problems, and they took no substantive measures to address that until it was far too late - and when they did address it I have to say they bungled it pretty badly.

Is Owens at fault? Absolutely. But the Eagles were not prepared to successfully deal with a problem they KNEW was coming - making them nearly equally culpable in this fiasco.

I think you're totally wrong here. They took every action available to them in the pre-season; sending TO home and giving him a formal warning as to his behavior. That's what you do when you have a problem employee; you communicate the problem and document the communication. If the employee is a total screw-up, they keep behaving badly, and then you take stricter action. I'm sure if they'd just suspended him right off the bat, the TO supporters would be even more up in arms.

I think a lot of people in this discussion haven't read the arbitrator's opinion pasted in this thread a few pages ago. It lays everything out -- TO's behavior and the team's response. TO's behavior and the team's response. TO's behavior and the team's response. And so on.

 

[bostonfred]

It is the job of a manager to have the most productive and efficient group of workers.

No it's not. The manager's job is typically to accomplish some larger goal (like win a Superbowl). The manager has workers who will help them accomplish this. That's a very important distinction.

If you had TO as any part of a team dynamic, the best advice to take would be to get rid of him - ASAP. He does not help teams win - this is demonstrated.

That's not true. It's been demonstrated that he does help teams win. 2000 San Francisco 49ers led by Jerry Rice (6-10)

2001 San Francisco 49ers led by Owens (12-4)

2002 San Francisco 49ers led by Owens (10-6) - won a playoff game on Owens' 9 catches for 177 yards and 2 TDs, which was over haf of Garcia's passing numbers

2003 San Francisco 49ers led by Owens (7-9)

2004 San Francisco 49ers without Owens (2-14)

It sure looks like he helped the 49ers win.

2003 Philadelphia Eagles without Owens (12-4, lost NFCCG)

2004 Philadephia Eagles with Owens (13-3, won NFCCG and almost won Superbowl on the back of Owens' 9 catches for 122 yards)

2005 Philadelphia Eagles with Owens (4-3)

2005 Philadelphia Eagles without Owens (1-3)

In fact, it can only be demonstrably proven that the teams he has played on are MUCH better WITH Owens than without him.

 

[Gr00vus]

Before the season started, he said that he would be a huge distraction if the Eagles didn't renegotiate his contract.

On that particular point, I'd say he lived up to his word.

And this is exactly the point at which the Eagles organization began to fail. This was the time to take action, to figure out how to deal with the problem and to address the problem - not 7 weeks in. Everything that's come since then in relation to Owens is a direct result of their failure to handle this particular event. They already knew he was difficult to deal with, he TOLD them he'd be causing problems, and they took no substantive measures to address that until it was far too late - and when they did address it I have to say they bungled it pretty badly.

Is Owens at fault? Absolutely. But the Eagles were not prepared to successfully deal with a problem they KNEW was coming - making them nearly equally culpable in this fiasco.

I think you're totally wrong here. They took every action available to them in the pre-season; sending TO home and giving him a formal warning as to his behavior. That's what you do when you have a problem employee; you communicate the problem and document the communication. If the employee is a total screw-up, they keep behaving badly, and then you take stricter action. I'm sure if they'd just suspended him right off the bat, the TO supporters would be even more up in arms.

That's fine, I think you're totally wrong too. I don't think that was sufficient. The guy had a proven track record, he'd indicated he would be flaring up, sending him home for a couple of days with a formal warning and then bringing him back saying everything will be fine and dandy from here on out doesn't cut it in that case. They needed to make it clear to everybody then and there in no uncertain terms what the fallout would be if he continued in that line AND make preparations for the worst case scenario. You tell them at that time that you will suspend him without pay and then put him on the shelf for the season, you tell them at that time that you will be attempting to get a refund on the signing bonus. They didn't do any of that, they just made things up as they went along. They did not have (and thereby could not elaborate on) a plan of action for this by any stretch of the imagination - as management they failed completely to do their jobs, further evidenced by the ad hoc and disasterous way they now continue to handle things. It's quite clear to me they had no idea of how they would handle this very likely outcome then, and to some extent they still look like they're floundering with the situation.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The guy had a proven track record, he'd indicated he would be flaring up, sending him home for a couple of days with a formal warning and then bringing him back saying everything will be fine and dandy from here on out doesn't cut it in that case. They needed to make it clear to everybody then and there in no uncertain terms what the fallout would be if he continued in that line AND make preparations for the worst case scenario.

Have you read the arbitrator's ruling? (I'm asking because it sounds like you haven't.)

 

[Gr00vus]

The guy had a proven track record, he'd indicated he would be flaring up, sending him home for a couple of days with a formal warning and then bringing him back saying everything will be fine and dandy from here on out doesn't cut it in that case. They needed to make it clear to everybody then and there in no uncertain terms what the fallout would be if he continued in that line AND make preparations for the worst case scenario.

Have you read the arbitrator's ruling? (I'm asking because it sounds like you haven't.)

Pretending I haven't, why don't you fill me in on the relevant parts you seem to think I'm not aware of. Particularly the parts where the Eagles explicitely say they were going to suspend him and then shelve him, and then go after the signing bonus money if he misbehaved way back when Owens started making trouble, or before he said his comments about McNabb.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The guy had a proven track record, he'd indicated he would be flaring up, sending him home for a couple of days with a formal warning and then bringing him back saying everything will be fine and dandy from here on out doesn't cut it in that case. They needed to make it clear to everybody then and there in no uncertain terms what the fallout would be if he continued in that line AND make preparations for the worst case scenario.

Have you read the arbitrator's ruling? (I'm asking because it sounds like you haven't.)

Pretending I haven't, why don't you fill me in on the relevant parts you seem to think I'm not aware of. Particularly the parts where the Eagles explicitely say they were going to suspend him and then shelve him, and then go after the signing bonus money if he misbehaved way back when Owens started making trouble, or before he said his comments about McNabb.

It's all in there. I've already read it. I'm not going to read through it again so I can excerpt the good parts for you. If you're interested, read it. It's good.

 

[Big Score]

Gr00vus,In July, prior to training camp, and in the face of renewed threats by the Player, the coach sent Mr. Owens a letter that cited his threats to disrupt the team, warned him of the team’s readiness to respond with “all available fines and contractual remedies” and demanded repayment of the 1.725 million dollar signing bonus the Player had forfeited by missing the April mini-camp. The terms of this letter (and subsequent similar documents) are important and, as such, they are set forth here in their entirety:

 

[Big Score]

Gr00vus,Letter in full from July 2005Dear Terrell:In light of the numerous recent conversations you and I have had, I thought it was important to communicate with you in writing. I have been intending to do this for quite some time, and after the angry and threatening statements you made in our telephone conversation last night, it became clearer that this correspondence was necessary.In our recent conversations, you have repeatedly threatened to do things and act in a manner that would be destructive to both the Philadelphia Eagles and to your own career. These are things that are not only inappropriate, but are in conflict with both the promises you have made to me and the obligations under the contract you have signed with the Eagles. You have repeatedly threatened to disrupt our team and to do whatever it takes to force us to cut or trade you, including breaching many provisions of your contract., Last night you specifically told me that you had no intention of coming into training camp and trying your best while you feel you are being underpaid. Although this was the most extreme comment, it is one of many such comments you have made to me and others within the organization. This letter is meant to inform you that if, in fact, upon arrival at training camp you carry out any of these threats, the team intends to use all available fines, and contractual remedies to deal with this behavior. Your stance is unacceptable and will not be tolerated.As we have discussed previously, you breached your contract by refusing to report to the clubs mandatory mini-camp. Your refusal to report is a default under the Signing Bonus addendum in your contract. In accordance with the terms of the Signing Bonus addendum of your contract, the club hereby demands repayment of $1,725,000 (i.e., the portion of your Signing Bonus that you are required to repay to the club as a result of your breach) by August 12, 2005. Should you fail to repay that total amount by August 12, 2005, we will begin deducting the above amount in equal installments from your game checks, and any other compensation owed to you by the club, or we will initiate a non-injury grievance for repayment of money owed to the club due to your breach.Please be advised that any additional breaches of your contract and/or violations of club rules will result in the club imposing fines against you in accordance with the Collective Bargaining Agreement and club rules. Repeated violations of club rules will result in escalation of the discipline imposed by the club and increasing fine amounts, up to and including you being fined and/or suspended for Conduct Detrimental to the club.Sincerely,Andy ReidExecutive VP Football Operations/Head Coachcc: Drew Rosenhaus

 

[bostonfred]

Repeated violations of club rules will result in escalation of the discipline imposed by the club and increasing fine amounts, up to and including you being fined and/or suspended for Conduct Detrimental to the club.

What they've done in response to his "repeated violations of vlub rules" has been much more than "being fined and suspended for Conduct Detrimental to the club".

 

[Gr00vus]

The guy had a proven track record, he'd indicated he would be flaring up, sending him home for a couple of days with a formal warning and then bringing him back saying everything will be fine and dandy from here on out doesn't cut it in that case. They needed to make it clear to everybody then and there in no uncertain terms what the fallout would be if he continued in that line AND make preparations for the worst case scenario.

Have you read the arbitrator's ruling? (I'm asking because it sounds like you haven't.)

Pretending I haven't, why don't you fill me in on the relevant parts you seem to think I'm not aware of. Particularly the parts where the Eagles explicitely say they were going to suspend him and then shelve him, and then go after the signing bonus money if he misbehaved way back when Owens started making trouble, or before he said his comments about McNabb.

It's all in there. I've already read it. I'm not going to read through it again so I can excerpt the good parts for you. If you're interested, read it. It's good.

Big Score/Maurile: I did read it - I don't know what's good about it. It's not all in there. They vaguely mention suspension at a couple of points. They never mention putting him on the shelf for the remaider of the season before hand. They do mention the signing bonus refund, but only in relation to him not showing up to mini camp - not going forward after that. Certainly a reasonable person could assume that would be a possible outcome of continued misconduct - however Owens is not a reasonable person, and the Eagles knew he was not a reasonable person.If you read it again, doesn't it strike you that the Eagles were completely reactionary to everything that happened? They never once anticipated Owens' transgressions in any real way even though they were easily anticipated. It doesn't seem they really thought out any ways to avoid the problems - they just dealt with them as they happened. That's a management failure.

Is Owens responsible for his transgressions - surely. But the Eagles knew what they were getting, they were warned frequently and clearly that trouble was brewing and I still see nothing that they did to try and avoid or mitigate the problem, other that put punishments into his contracts to be enacted when the problems arose. People keep saying Owens ripped the fabric of the team apart to an extent where the team could not function anymore. I'm saying they knew he was capable of being an enormous distraction, a real problem and they did almost nothing to protect the team from it, and that is very much the Eagles' repsonsibility, not Owens'. Good management does not allow such a thing to destroy the team - bad management does. This is the problem I have with the Eagles' management - they knowingly made a deal with the devil and weren't prepared to cope with it. Now they're suffering the consequences and I can't get on board with people treating them as the victims.

It's like knowingly sleeping with somone who has an STD, not really doing anything to protect yourself and then blaiming them when you suffer as a result.

 

[CalBear]

Repeated violations of club rules will result in escalation of the discipline imposed by the club and increasing fine amounts, up to and including you being fined and/or suspended for Conduct Detrimental to the club.

What they've done in response to his "repeated violations of vlub rules" has been much more than "being fined and suspended for Conduct Detrimental to the club".

The only thing they've done other than what they put forth in that letter is deactivate him. That's 100% their perogative.

 

[Big Score]

Big Score/Maurile: I did read it - I don't know what's good about it.  It's not all in there.  They vaguely mention suspension at a couple of points.

"Please be advised that any additional breaches of your contract and/or violations of club rules will result in the club imposing fines against you in accordance with the Collective Bargaining Agreement and club rules. Repeated violations of club rules will result in escalation of the discipline imposed by the club and increasing fine amounts, up to and including you being fined and/or suspended for Conduct Detrimental to the club."Not sure how this can be construed as being vaguely mentioned. How much clearer can it be?

 

[BassNBrew]

Im blaiming the media for the "overhype" and everyone one else in the world creating the distraction.  At least any more of a distraction than most teams face every year.

Wow.

Romo broke a teammates face, did he get deactivated for a year?  Steve Smith beat down some rookie in a meeting, did he get deactivated?

It's a lot easier to deal with a single instance of poor behavior than a continuing refusal to get in line.Even at the arbitration hearing, TO promised to continue to be a distraction for the rest of the season. Romo and Steve Smith didn't.

For whatever reason, TO's fault or not, he creates the perfect media story.  One that the media can run with till the cows come home.  How long was the Stephen Davis/M Westbrook debacle?

This has nothing to do with the media. If the media didn't exist, TO would still be at home.

Actually, if the media didnt put ten thousand microphones up TO's ###, this would be a non-issue.Again, TO is an ###, I am not argueing this. I find it hard to believe that not only can TO help a team achieve home field advantage and perform at a MVP level in the Super Bowl and then turn around and cause a team one of its worst losing seasons in 5 years while not even allowed on teams grounds. That entire concept is preposterous.

If the Eagles were not willing to face the big bumps with TO, they should have never brought him in. Everyone knew TOs contract was bad. The NFLPA, TO, David Joseph, everybody. What did the Eagles think was going to happen? They were going to play hardball with one of the most idiotic outspoken NFL players in history? Seriously, how can the Eagles play dumb here?

We tried to tell you this last year but you (and others) were reveling in the momentary bump to your team.

 

[BassNBrew]

I guess the point that some are making here is, bottom line,  that "a team must put up with any amount of disruption from a star athlete."

No, the point that we are making is that it is incorrect to say "a team cannot put up with disruption from a star athlete, even if that star athlete makes their team better".

And this matches the Patriots model how???

 

[BassNBrew]

No, the point that we are making is that it is incorrect to say "a team cannot put up with disruption from a star athlete, even if that star athlete makes their team better".

If they thought he'd make the team better (disruption and all), they'd put up with it. But they don't. And I agree with them.

It doesnt sound like you work in a large business environment. People have to put up with idiotic people (at many different levels of idiocy) every day. As a manager, it is your responsibility to get what you can from every employee. You are not always in a position to fire someone and you have a responsibility to do your job.

I was actually going to make this same statement about you. You can run a business by creating a different set of rules for every employee and succeed.

 

[bostonfred]

Repeated violations of club rules will result in escalation of the discipline imposed by the club and increasing fine amounts, up to and including you being fined and/or suspended for Conduct Detrimental to the club.

What they've done in response to his "repeated violations of vlub rules" has been much more than "being fined and suspended for Conduct Detrimental to the club".

The only thing they've done other than what they put forth in that letter is deactivate him. That's 100% their perogative.

I understand your point, and I have read and understand the arbitrator's ruling. I just strongly disagree with it. The arbitrator states that "Concededly, a coach’s decision to preclude both practice and play will disadvantage a player, arguably more so than merely riding the bench". He then goes on to distinguish that "suspending him without pay to the limits permitted by the collective bargaining agreement for his behavior in this matter." was a separate instance from their intent "to pay Mr. Owens, but not to permit him to play or practice".

That's spefically where I disagree. I don't think Owens has a right to play, but the team's deliberate decision to do something which will disadvantage him, in addition to the maximum fine and suspension, exceeds the maximum penalty.

Forcing the team to release the player was addressed and the arbitrator's response was that, "while releasing the Player is an available option, it is not a mandatory one."

In my opinion, the team could choose to release the player, or they could choose to allow him to practice. But they could not choose to disadvantage the player as an additional response to the same event for which they'd already given him the maximum penalty.

 

[greenroom]

I am very surprised at the Eagles.  I always thought of them as a class organization but the way they continue to go after TO is petty and childish.

If somebody owed you $1.725 million, would you just forget about it?

Well if TO is as big of distraction as the EAGLES are making it out to be, HELL Yes. Why would you want to keep the distraction alive. You went to the arby meeting saying that money was not the issue. IF the Eagles had to pay for TO to stay home that is fine. Why did not the Eagles at the same time try to get back the money?

Instead lets keep the TO and the Eagles in the news and not focus on trying to win football games.

O and wait lets stir the players union up even more to where they have filed a new Arby battle. For the Eagles being in breach of contract.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2249678

But to answer your question YES they should of just let it go.

 

[gman8343]

all I know is if TO was on the field last night, the score would have been closer (42-14)

 

[Tau837]

I'm glad I don't work in the business environments that would tolerate TO's behavior. It would not be tolerated in any business environment I have ever worked in, nor should it be.The support for TO on this board does not cease to amaze me.Maurile:

 

[Koya]

It is the job of a manager to have the most productive and efficient group of workers.

No it's not. The manager's job is typically to accomplish some larger goal (like win a Superbowl). The manager has workers who will help them accomplish this. That's a very important distinction.

If you had TO as any part of a team dynamic, the best advice to take would be to get rid of him - ASAP.  He does not help teams win - this is demonstrated. 

That's not true. It's been demonstrated that he does help teams win. 2000 San Francisco 49ers led by Jerry Rice (6-10)

2001 San Francisco 49ers led by Owens (12-4)

2002 San Francisco 49ers led by Owens (10-6) - won a playoff game on Owens' 9 catches for 177 yards and 2 TDs, which was over haf of Garcia's passing numbers

2003 San Francisco 49ers led by Owens (7-9)

2004 San Francisco 49ers without Owens (2-14)

It sure looks like he helped the 49ers win.

2003 Philadelphia Eagles without Owens (12-4, lost NFCCG)

2004 Philadephia Eagles with Owens (13-3, won NFCCG and almost won Superbowl on the back of Owens' 9 catches for 122 yards)

2005 Philadelphia Eagles with Owens (4-3)

2005 Philadelphia Eagles without Owens (1-3)

In fact, it can only be demonstrably proven that the teams he has played on are MUCH better WITH Owens than without him.

A player that destroys a team's cohesion is not a winning player. Have you played a team sport? Not saying you have not, but I do find it hard to believe that someone who worked in a dynamic like a football team would not see the pure destructiveness of Owens complete and utter lack of character.Second, about management - How do you think a manager accomplishes a greater goal? If it is all by their doing, then there isn't much managing going on.

Management by definition means best utilization of resources - which enables you to reach a certain goal.

Management is getting the most out of your most valuable resource (in this case for sure) - your employees. When one employee destroys the company's productivity as a whole, almost singlehandedly, that is not a very good utilization of resources.

But, I will tell everyone I know who has/does manage people (well, the successful ones at least) that they have it all wrong.

 

[JAA]

Fact:  You cant blame TO for actions that we all saw coming

That's not a fact at all.

Before the season started, he said that he would be a huge distraction if the Eagles didn't renegotiate his contract.

Really?

Yes, really. You blame people for their own behavior. I think it's amazingly obvious, so I won't elaborate.

Is that what you tell the judge and jury in court Or just when you know you are in the wrong

 

[JAA]

Fact:  You cant blame TO for actions that we all saw coming

That's not a fact at all.

How is it not?

Seriously?If I know that Al-Qaeda is going to continue to blow things up, I can't blame them for it?

What kind of crazy moral reasoning is that?

No one is saying TO wasnt at fault! Everyone continues to say TO is an idiot.If Al-Qaeda tells you it is going to bomb a the NYC trade center, then they do in fact blow it up, the only person at fault is Al-Queada?

 

[JAA]

A cancer that caused what? The Eagles to lose games? DMac to get injured? What cancer are we talking about? What did TO do that is directly related to the Eagles losing games?

Please. Stop apologizing for this guy. He doesnt deserve it.He is directly responsible for causing such friction and distraction in a TEAM GAME that is destroyed the fabric of what made a very very good team a cohesive unit.

This is not rocket science. If you can not see his DIRECT impact, and would instead need to see him purposely miss blocks or drop balls to call his impact on the team direct, then perhaps you should look a bit more closely at the situation.

It is as if Owens made a traffic light green for both ways to an intersection, and you would claim he was not directly responsible for any ensuing accident.

WOW. You're on fire in both forums this week.Please tell me how you have any knowledge of the dynamic in the Eagle's locker room? How do you explain away the fact that several teammate sided with TO.

The only "friction" was between McNabb and his posse and TO. They faught like babies, and both cost eachother greatness in what they could have done togehter. But make no mistake, McNabb needs TO (or another top 3 wideout) more than TO needs him. TO will be a monster anywhere. McNabb will go back to his overhyped mediocrity next year (unless they pry Reggie away).

However, you are so quick to diagnose something without actually being in the room to understand the problem. Let me guess...Adam Scheffer told you

The Eagles are equally responsible...ses above post.

Having played in team sports, including and especially football, I have some understanding of a team dynamic. If EVERY player were against TO, it might not have been an issue.But when you have a narcissist that couldn't care less about others divide a locker room without ANY care for the represucssions, that is a strain that can destroy a team unless everything runs smoothly. Last year, things ran smoothly. this year you had some bumps in the road... you'll notice that TO started to ramp up his criticisms of McNabb just when McNabb started to hurt/struggle - which is typical TO and typical of a narcissist of his ilk - wait until someone else has a moment of weakness, then capitalize it to put your efforts in a better light.

TO might not be the only reason the Eagles fell flat on their face this year.

But he is the biggest. And the most easily remedied (get rid of him or even better in hindsight, should not have signed him)

I actually believe the rift started when DMac criticized TO. TO said he was pissed when #5 said that "the Eagles could win without TO". TO even said it made him feel like he wasnt part of the team.When TO was asked "Can you win w/o DMac", his answer was "No Comment"

 

[JAA]

TO is the single biggest reason the Eagles season blew up in their face.  Now, you can blame management for how they handled him, or for signing him in the first place (ding ding ding!), but that guy ripped apart a locker room and a team...

which is why he is such a poor NFL player, even if his skills are better than anyone at his position.  Just not someone for a team game.  

You've got to be kidding me. Look at the Eagles' record this year with Owens and without. The single biggest reason the Eagles season started out slow was that McNabb was hurt. The single biggest reason the Eagles season blew up in their face was that they benched/inactivated Owens for saying so. As for your comment that he's a poor player and can't win in a team game, how come both the 49ers and Eagles improved so much when he became their #1 WR, and dropped off so much when he wasn't? Have you already forgotten that Owens almost won the Superbowl for them while playing through an injury that the doctors said would take him a couple more weeks to heal?

If TO had EVER done the right thing in his professional career - in San Fran, in demanding trades, in redemanding trades after getting a trade, in signing a contract with conditions and then breaking those conditions while ALSO asking for a raise... then you could blame the Eagles.

No, you can specifically blame the Eagles for taking him on when they knew Owens' history of saying the wrong thing, and they knew that they would bench/suspend him if he said the wrong thing. If they knew they weren't going to be flexible, they shouldn't have taken him on. You can specifically blame the Eagles for not doing all they can to win this season. Ending Owens' season did not help them as a team. And next year, Owens was gone anyways, so it's not like they've helped themselves as a team.

I disagree with your romantic notion that the Eagles are making a bold statement against Owens' actions. They're being vindictive, trying to save themselves some money, and using this to try to strengthen their bargaining position in future contract negotiations. I believe that the net gain they received from that last point was not worth giving up this season, which contributed to my belief that they made a terrible decision for the team.

TO brought this on himself.  100%.  Anyone who apologizes for his actions must not be thinking straight.  

I don't apologize for his actions. But I do think his actions weren't as bad as the hype ESPN gave them, that the Eagles overreacted, and that it cost them their season. Those are separate issues, as far as I'm concerned - you don't have to think Owens was right, to think that the Eagles have screwed up.

You make some good points. The Eagles are to blame (and I believe I did pin some blame on the organization for how they handled Owens and for signing him in the first place) - but Owens is the issue here.

What specifically is Owens to blame for?