This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Poor TO, he just wants to play football but "The Man" is keeping him down.
TO forced the Eagles to sign 1 offseason FA, Mike McMahonTO forced the Eagles to mess with Westbrooks contract negotiation
If somebody owed you $1.725 million, would you just forget about it?
TO is the single biggest reason the Eagles season blew up in their face. Now, you can blame management for how they handled him, or for signing him in the first place (ding ding ding!), but that guy ripped apart a locker room and a team... which is why he is such a poor NFL player, even if his skills are better than anyone at his position. Just not someone for a team game. If TO had EVER done the right thing in his professional career - in San Fran, in demanding trades, in redemanding trades after getting a trade, in signing a contract with conditions and then breaking those conditions while ALSO asking for a raise... then you could blame the Eagles.
)
Please. Stop apologizing for this guy. He doesnt deserve it.He is directly responsible for causing such friction and distraction in a TEAM GAME that is destroyed the fabric of what made a very very good team a cohesive unit.
The proof is in the pudding.The Eagles failed to acquiese on any level to what TO wanted before the season, due in no small measure to the fact that they are a pig-headed organization.
TO's an ###, no doubt, but be serious -- sure, man, it was TO's negative locker room presence that caused mcnabb to aggravate his sports hernia, play through it too long and be wildly inaccurate, and TO made reid stubbornly run an offense that was grotesquely imbalanced and predictable (75% passing) despite having a borderline marquee RB, and TO's fault that the once-tough defense slowly eroded and became almost a laughingstock parody of its former self...all TO's fault. gimme a break.TO is the single biggest reason the Eagles season blew up in their face. Now, you can blame management for how they handled him, or for signing him in the first place (ding ding ding!), but that guy ripped apart a locker room and a team... which is why he is such a poor NFL player, even if his skills are better than anyone at his position. Just not someone for a team game. If TO had EVER done the right thing in his professional career - in San Fran, in demanding trades, in redemanding trades after getting a trade, in signing a contract with conditions and then breaking those conditions while ALSO asking for a raise... then you could blame the Eagles.
TO brought this on himself. 100%. Anyone who apologizes for his actions must not be thinking straight.
Then again, it is not easy to be in TO's shoes - I mean, with all the accusations against others, he obviously sees great fault in himself. Must be tough to hold in all those conflicting emotions (i.e. the possibility he is repressing certain internal desires that manefest themselves in his behavior, sorta like when he went after Garcia... ok, Im just postulating now, but when you act as much of an ### as owens have, you bring that upon yourself too.
WOW. You're on fire in both forums this week.Please tell me how you have any knowledge of the dynamic in the Eagle's locker room? How do you explain away the fact that several teammate sided with TO.Please. Stop apologizing for this guy. He doesnt deserve it.He is directly responsible for causing such friction and distraction in a TEAM GAME that is destroyed the fabric of what made a very very good team a cohesive unit.
This is not rocket science. If you can not see his DIRECT impact, and would instead need to see him purposely miss blocks or drop balls to call his impact on the team direct, then perhaps you should look a bit more closely at the situation.
It is as if Owens made a traffic light green for both ways to an intersection, and you would claim he was not directly responsible for any ensuing accident.
Or whatever? I think a lot of you didn't read the arbitrator's opinion (pasted here a few pages back).TO refused to talk to the quarterback all season long. He also refused to talk to the offensive coordinator. Refused. Even at the arbitration hearing, TO's stance was that his contract didn't require him to talk to anybody, so he wasn't going to.
You've got to be kidding me. Look at the Eagles' record this year with Owens and without. The single biggest reason the Eagles season started out slow was that McNabb was hurt. The single biggest reason the Eagles season blew up in their face was that they benched/inactivated Owens for saying so. As for your comment that he's a poor player and can't win in a team game, how come both the 49ers and Eagles improved so much when he became their #1 WR, and dropped off so much when he wasn't? Have you already forgotten that Owens almost won the Superbowl for them while playing through an injury that the doctors said would take him a couple more weeks to heal?
No, you can specifically blame the Eagles for taking him on when they knew Owens' history of saying the wrong thing, and they knew that they would bench/suspend him if he said the wrong thing. If they knew they weren't going to be flexible, they shouldn't have taken him on. You can specifically blame the Eagles for not doing all they can to win this season. Ending Owens' season did not help them as a team. And next year, Owens was gone anyways, so it's not like they've helped themselves as a team. I disagree with your romantic notion that the Eagles are making a bold statement against Owens' actions. They're being vindictive, trying to save themselves some money, and using this to try to strengthen their bargaining position in future contract negotiations. I believe that the net gain they received from that last point was not worth giving up this season, which contributed to my belief that they made a terrible decision for the team.
I don't apologize for his actions. But I do think his actions weren't as bad as the hype ESPN gave them, that the Eagles overreacted, and that it cost them their season. Those are separate issues, as far as I'm concerned - you don't have to think Owens was right, to think that the Eagles have screwed up.
Why does he have to stay home? Were they losing with him in the lineup? Did they start winning when he left the lineup? Did other people stop talking to McNabb because they were following his lead? I've worked with a lot of strange people in my day. I get my work done, and work well in a team, regardless of what those people do. What is it about football players that makes it impossible for them to deal with someone acting childish when he is helping them win games?
So your saying if TO was a perfect gentleman this season they would go to the SuperBowl?TO is no longer with the team, is (should) no longer be a distraction. Why is Philly losing. How is it TO's fault?Please. Stop apologizing for this guy. He doesnt deserve it.He is directly responsible for causing such friction and distraction in a TEAM GAME that is destroyed the fabric of what made a very very good team a cohesive unit.
This is not rocket science. If you can not see his DIRECT impact, and would instead need to see him purposely miss blocks or drop balls to call his impact on the team direct, then perhaps you should look a bit more closely at the situation.
It is as if Owens made a traffic light green for both ways to an intersection, and you would claim he was not directly responsible for any ensuing accident.
Whats the right thing?Ive said from D-Day (Drew droping the TO contract Bomb) that the Eagles should have given TO half his 2006 roster bonus the day after the Super Bowl and said "Thank you". Period, end of story. In the begining, all I have heard from Drew and TO was that they wanted next seasons money garunteed.
Because he refused to talk to the QB or the OC, and he disobeyed direct orders from the head coach.A football team has to have a bit of a military mindset. Coaches give orders; players do what they're told. You can't have insurgency. No successful team has insurgency.
He's causing a distraction by suspending himself, taking himself to arbitration, holding a press conference the day of arbitration and refusing to take questions about himself, then asking the Eagles to take back 1.725 million of his signing bonus, all the time slipping further and further out of contention for the division. I can't believe that guy.So your saying if TO was a perfect gentleman this season they would go to the SuperBowl?TO is no longer with the team, is (should) no longer be a distraction. Why is Philly losing. How is it TO's fault?Please. Stop apologizing for this guy. He doesnt deserve it.He is directly responsible for causing such friction and distraction in a TEAM GAME that is destroyed the fabric of what made a very very good team a cohesive unit.
This is not rocket science. If you can not see his DIRECT impact, and would instead need to see him purposely miss blocks or drop balls to call his impact on the team direct, then perhaps you should look a bit more closely at the situation.
It is as if Owens made a traffic light green for both ways to an intersection, and you would claim he was not directly responsible for any ensuing accident.
Are you suggesting that TO didn't create a distraction this year?Before the season started, he said that he would be a huge distraction if the Eagles didn't renegotiate his contract.He's causing a distraction by suspending himself, taking himself to arbitration, holding a press conference the day of arbitration and refusing to take questions about himself, then asking the Eagles to take back 1.725 million of his signing bonus, all the time slipping further and further out of contention for the division. I can't believe that guy.So your saying if TO was a perfect gentleman this season they would go to the SuperBowl?TO is no longer with the team, is (should) no longer be a distraction. Why is Philly losing. How is it TO's fault?Please. Stop apologizing for this guy. He doesnt deserve it.He is directly responsible for causing such friction and distraction in a TEAM GAME that is destroyed the fabric of what made a very very good team a cohesive unit.
This is not rocket science. If you can not see his DIRECT impact, and would instead need to see him purposely miss blocks or drop balls to call his impact on the team direct, then perhaps you should look a bit more closely at the situation.
It is as if Owens made a traffic light green for both ways to an intersection, and you would claim he was not directly responsible for any ensuing accident.
TO acted like an ###. No one is argueing this. The saying "taking the high road" comes just from this, we all knew people would need to take the high road with TO because he is socially ######ed. Im not appologizing for that at all, I am criticizing the FO for not being able to forsee it and handle it.Why was TO so pissed? Why couldnt the Eagles work something out with one of the 3 best WRs in the NFL?
Im saying he didnt. Im blaiming the media for the "overhype" and everyone one else in the world creating the distraction. At least any more of a distraction than most teams face every year. Romo broke a teammates face, did he get deactivated for a year? Steve Smith beat down some rookie in a meeting, did he get deactivated?For whatever reason, TO's fault or not, he creates the perfect media story. One that the media can run with till the cows come home. How long was the Stephen Davis/M Westbrook debacle?Are you suggesting that TO didn't create a distraction this year?Before the season started, he said that he would be a huge distraction if the Eagles didn't renegotiate his contract.He's causing a distraction by suspending himself, taking himself to arbitration, holding a press conference the day of arbitration and refusing to take questions about himself, then asking the Eagles to take back 1.725 million of his signing bonus, all the time slipping further and further out of contention for the division. I can't believe that guy.So your saying if TO was a perfect gentleman this season they would go to the SuperBowl?TO is no longer with the team, is (should) no longer be a distraction. Why is Philly losing. How is it TO's fault?Please. Stop apologizing for this guy. He doesnt deserve it.He is directly responsible for causing such friction and distraction in a TEAM GAME that is destroyed the fabric of what made a very very good team a cohesive unit.
This is not rocket science. If you can not see his DIRECT impact, and would instead need to see him purposely miss blocks or drop balls to call his impact on the team direct, then perhaps you should look a bit more closely at the situation.
It is as if Owens made a traffic light green for both ways to an intersection, and you would claim he was not directly responsible for any ensuing accident.
On that particular point, I'd say he lived up to his word.
That's not true. Plenty of successful teams have insurgency. The Colts are undefeated with a player who pulicly criticized both his quarterback and his head coach, saying both lacked emotion and leadership. When asked if Vanderjagt's future was in with the Colts was in doubt, Dungy said "It's not in doubt because of what he said".
Wow.
It's a lot easier to deal with a single instance of poor behavior than a continuing refusal to get in line.Even at the arbitration hearing, TO promised to continue to be a distraction for the rest of the season. Romo and Steve Smith didn't.
This has nothing to do with the media. If the media didn't exist, TO would still be at home.
I'm saying that the Eagles sacking him because they think the distraction is hurting their team, then continuing to keep him in the spotlight, is one of many examples of their mismanagement of this player.Are you suggesting that TO didn't create a distraction this year?Before the season started, he said that he would be a huge distraction if the Eagles didn't renegotiate his contract.He's causing a distraction by suspending himself, taking himself to arbitration, holding a press conference the day of arbitration and refusing to take questions about himself, then asking the Eagles to take back 1.725 million of his signing bonus, all the time slipping further and further out of contention for the division. I can't believe that guy.So your saying if TO was a perfect gentleman this season they would go to the SuperBowl?TO is no longer with the team, is (should) no longer be a distraction. Why is Philly losing. How is it TO's fault?Please. Stop apologizing for this guy. He doesnt deserve it.He is directly responsible for causing such friction and distraction in a TEAM GAME that is destroyed the fabric of what made a very very good team a cohesive unit.
This is not rocket science. If you can not see his DIRECT impact, and would instead need to see him purposely miss blocks or drop balls to call his impact on the team direct, then perhaps you should look a bit more closely at the situation.
It is as if Owens made a traffic light green for both ways to an intersection, and you would claim he was not directly responsible for any ensuing accident.
On that particular point, I'd say he lived up to his word.
Actually, if the media didnt put ten thousand microphones up TO's ###, this would be a non-issue.Again, TO is an ###, I am not argueing this. I find it hard to believe that not only can TO help a team achieve home field advantage and perform at a MVP level in the Super Bowl and then turn around and cause a team one of its worst losing seasons in 5 years while not even allowed on teams grounds. That entire concept is preposterous.
Why? When you have a receiver that averages a TD a game and changes the defensive scheme against you, the fact that he doesn't speak to the QB is important why? TO hung Dono out to dry, Dono reciprocated, and they acted like babies, no doubt. BUT, it is what happens on the field that matters, and TO was a monster this year. THAT is what he owes the team. People continue to suggest everything off the field was one-way, which would defy common sense and the dynamic of personal relationships.
No, the point that we are making is that it is incorrect to say "a team cannot put up with disruption from a star athlete, even if that star athlete makes their team better".
If they thought he'd make the team better (disruption and all), they'd put up with it. But they don't. And I agree with them.
It doesnt sound like you work in a large business environment. People have to put up with idiotic people (at many different levels of idiocy) every day. As a manager, it is your responsibility to get what you can from every employee. You are not always in a position to fire someone and you have a responsibility to do your job.
So you're saying you think they'd have lost every game if he were playing? Because that's the only way he could make the team worse. No comment on my response to your insurgency post?
Large business environment? A football team isn't a business environment. It's a football team.
They probably would have, but no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying they have a better chance of being a winning team without the kinds of distractions TO causes than with them, even if a lot of talent comes with those distractions.This is the same argument I had with people who thought the Chargers were nuts for getting rid of David Boston.
Every example you gave was completely non-analogous to the TO situation. The kicker for Indy talked to the QB and patched things over. If TO had done that, he'd be playing. I don't remember Lawrence Taylor ever refusing to talk to his defensive coordinator. Keyshawn was sent home, just like TO. Gruden is a good coach, just like Andy Reid. Both guys did what had to be done.
Youre right, it isnt a business environment. This is about people working together as a team to better the teams output, overtime to make a better product. This has nothing to do with team players wanting more money when the company may or may not desire to pay more for services they feel that can get for less. LArge business environments dont suffer from certain employees getting special treatment because of being a "company man" or someone else being outspoken in an environment that frowns upon such actions.In the end, I dont think you have done anything to discredit the numerous short-comings the Eagles FO has perpetuated due to their non-desire to produce a proper product for its consumers. In reality, the Eagles FO has always had the power to handle all of these sitautions better for the team and the consumers. Instead, they decide to take what they call a "hard line" for whatever reason. In the end I feel this will hurt them in the long run ... who wants to work for a company that treats its employess like they treated TO, Simon, Westbrook, etc.
That's the problem. It's not about people working together as a team. It's about TO's refusal to work together with the team.Football is a team sport.
Given that TO failed, I'm glad he did not get what he wanted.But I certainly didn't want him to fail. I've got him on a bunch of my fantasy teams.
Thank you for making my point.Look at the patriots. One of their star players was threating to hold out unless he was paid more to play this season. The Patriots made a business decision to pay that player more because they felt (for a reason we will not know) it was in their best interest.
They don't know as much as Andy Reid about managing a football team.
And this is exactly the point at which the Eagles organization began to fail. This was the time to take action, to figure out how to deal with the problem and to address the problem - not 7 weeks in. Everything that's come since then in relation to Owens is a direct result of their failure to handle this particular event. They already knew he was difficult to deal with, he TOLD them he'd be causing problems, and they took no substantive measures to address that until it was far too late - and when they did address it I have to say they bungled it pretty badly.
You continue to take 1 sentances out and make comments on them instead of addressing my points.The Eagles FO has had every opportunity to handle this situation. They took advantage of TO's contract situation with the ####ty contract. The refused to pay a WR the money he deserved (nothing to do with the backloaded money he was promised) and now people want to blame TO for this situation.
And what is that exactly? What has AR done to manage the team? He sure has coached well, but that isnt managing. How has AR handled adversity? Lets talk about Duce Staley. The Eagles were second in rushing TDs (1st was KC) before they let him go. Why all of a sudden the huge drop in rushing TD's? Did AR "manage" that situation effectively?In the end, an effective manager is not one who proves he can handle the easy situations, but one who can handle the touch situations.
A football team -- on the field and in the locker room -- operates a lot more like a military unit than a business. Coaches yell and scream a lot -- a lot more than mid-level managers do. They cuss. They get physical. Players have to suck it up and overcome physical pain and exhaustion, and they have to throw their bodies all over the field with reckless abandon. They have to take a crushing hit and get back up and continue to play fearlessly. They have to carry out their assignment by doing whatever the coach says instead of thinking for themselves. They have to go along with the program completely, trusting their coaches and teammates.That's like a business environment?
The Bucs won a Superbowl with Keyshawn. Keyshawn's disruption had been noted well before they won the Superbowl. That pretty much disproves that a team can't win with a disruptive receiver. And Taylor didn't refuse to talk to his defensive coordinator, but he was far more distracting than Owens. He played games while high on crack cocaine. He regularly showed up late for practice -- if he showed up at all.
That's not a fact at all.
