Mortimer Ichabod
Footballguy
I don't think there is anyone closer to Jamaal Charles in the NFL. Love the talent, hopefully down the line he will get a chance to be featured in an offense.
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Taiwan Jones (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter RavenLunatic
- Start date
Shutout
Footballguy
He's a very dangerous speed guy and that makes me think, based on what the raiders want to do based on DMAC's speed, that he would have to occupy at least a share of significant work if DMAC misses time.
In dynasty, I think you still have to have this guy's name in your back pocket. He's not going to take a job from DMAC but he could be traded or emerge somewhere else later down the line because you can't teach speed and speed kills (the spirit of Al Davis may have just entered my body).
Its just speculation on my part but there is something about Jones that reminds me so much of how Jamaal Charles was being viewed when he came into the league. They are similar in size, both can run obviously,etc. All the early reports on Charles said he was a COP and too little and all that and he DID have to wait a long time but he's certainly fantasy relevant in a big way. Taiwan Jones is a test of patience but could be one that pays off handsomely.
In dynasty, I think you still have to have this guy's name in your back pocket. He's not going to take a job from DMAC but he could be traded or emerge somewhere else later down the line because you can't teach speed and speed kills (the spirit of Al Davis may have just entered my body).
Its just speculation on my part but there is something about Jones that reminds me so much of how Jamaal Charles was being viewed when he came into the league. They are similar in size, both can run obviously,etc. All the early reports on Charles said he was a COP and too little and all that and he DID have to wait a long time but he's certainly fantasy relevant in a big way. Taiwan Jones is a test of patience but could be one that pays off handsomely.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
May have been mentioned before, but after reviewing the tape Jones is actually a better fit in the ZBS than McFadden. He's perfect for the one-cut-and-go style that OC Greg Knapp is coaching. I agree that Jones isn't going to take away any significant carries from McFadden now or in the future (assume DMC's health). But if the ZBS system stays, I don't see Jones parting ways with Oakland either.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Myth. ChJo listed at 5-11 191LBsTJones listed at 6-0 197LBsPersonally, if I am drafting DMac I am looking to get Jones latter in the draft as his main cuff. Jones best matches DMac's skill set (may even be faster) and can take the rock to the house on any given play.
Mortimer Ichabod
Footballguy
Jamaal Charles listed at 5'11, 199
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
And this. More here: http://forums.footba...l=taiwan&st=200 And everyone is staring down Reece.Well? Why not now?
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Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
Seriously, you had to dredge up a thread from August? You couldn't just start a new thread announcing that he has landed in the starter position by default? Who wants to read stuff from August?
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Hey ok I hear ya but I like all the old info - there's another thread from 2011 talking about his prospects from college. Info junkie here, there are a lot of good observations in this thread, and season's on the line after gambling on McFadden.Thanks.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
If you started a new thread someone would have scolded you for not updating this one. Nothing against Harry Snowman
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Reece
mr roboto
Footballguy
I'd love to see what he could do with 10 carries and 5 receptions per game.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
How about some more comments on:
- McFadden goes out, and then all of a sudden we see a return to the halfback as receiver, what we saw with McFadden in week 1 but then later disappeared (with the exception of the occasional gainer to Goodson or Reece).
- Who is going to RUN the ball, will someone opine? Reece is a fullback, one with amazing skills, but he's a fullback/tight-end hybrid, when has he ever run the ball over 10 times? No, I haven't checked. But are the Raiders just going to STOP running the ball? McFadden was getting 20-25+ carries per game, where does that go, out the window?
ETA: Ok, I checked, Reece has run the ball 6 and 7 times, twice, both with very good averages:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/ReecMa00/gamelog//
Jones also has had a 7 carry game, with very similar results. Note the 1 pass reception for 30 yards.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneTa00/gamelog//
- Reece is a very important fullback, blocks like crazy, is a great pass catcher, the man has a role. Do they really start running him as the halfback? The Raiders DO have a backup fullback but I take it he's more of a special teamer.
- Taiwan Jones does run the ball, and he catches the ball. He is slight but so are some other very good backs that people love, Charles, Daryl Richardson come to mind. He may not block well, but the guy is a weapon. He can break big plays, he is very, very fast.
- We've seen 3rd stringers do things that starters failed to do.
- Goodson, how long he is out is just a important as McFadden.
- Oakland's season is not exactly "over." I think PIT makes the wild card, but who else? Oakland still has a great schedule and though they're 3-5, it makes just as much sense to discuss them as Miami, Indy, San Diego, Jets, Cincy.
- I of course have no idea how things will break but I think Taiwan Jones is a more than worthwhile flyer.
- McFadden goes out, and then all of a sudden we see a return to the halfback as receiver, what we saw with McFadden in week 1 but then later disappeared (with the exception of the occasional gainer to Goodson or Reece).
- Who is going to RUN the ball, will someone opine? Reece is a fullback, one with amazing skills, but he's a fullback/tight-end hybrid, when has he ever run the ball over 10 times? No, I haven't checked. But are the Raiders just going to STOP running the ball? McFadden was getting 20-25+ carries per game, where does that go, out the window?
ETA: Ok, I checked, Reece has run the ball 6 and 7 times, twice, both with very good averages:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/ReecMa00/gamelog//
Jones also has had a 7 carry game, with very similar results. Note the 1 pass reception for 30 yards.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JoneTa00/gamelog//
- Reece is a very important fullback, blocks like crazy, is a great pass catcher, the man has a role. Do they really start running him as the halfback? The Raiders DO have a backup fullback but I take it he's more of a special teamer.
- Taiwan Jones does run the ball, and he catches the ball. He is slight but so are some other very good backs that people love, Charles, Daryl Richardson come to mind. He may not block well, but the guy is a weapon. He can break big plays, he is very, very fast.
- We've seen 3rd stringers do things that starters failed to do.
- Goodson, how long he is out is just a important as McFadden.
- Oakland's season is not exactly "over." I think PIT makes the wild card, but who else? Oakland still has a great schedule and though they're 3-5, it makes just as much sense to discuss them as Miami, Indy, San Diego, Jets, Cincy.
- I of course have no idea how things will break but I think Taiwan Jones is a more than worthwhile flyer.
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I think it's pretty clear how this shakes out based upon usage yesterday.
Goodson would be the add if he were healthy, but he isn't...and we may not know his status by the time waivers go through. So that leaves Marcel Reese as the clear add from what I can see. Even if they are receiving yards and TD's...yards and TD's are yards and TD's.
Goodson would be the add if he were healthy, but he isn't...and we may not know his status by the time waivers go through. So that leaves Marcel Reese as the clear add from what I can see. Even if they are receiving yards and TD's...yards and TD's are yards and TD's.
Nucker101
Footballguy
Just hope he stays on the field and doesn't cough up the ball. The talent is definitely there. However I would definitely temper my expectations after seeing McFadden running behind that line this season.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Good points have been brought up in this thread. IMO, I just don't see OAK running Reece more than a hand full of times a game. Like people have stated, he has a very specific role on OAK's offense, and he performs his role well. The logical assumption here is that Jones is going to pick up a decent amount of touches out of the backfield, simply because OAK has no other choice. People totally dismissing Jones and assuming Reece holds all the value aren't thinking rationally. Who knows how well Jones will perform, but he's a threat to take it to the house on any given play and is in all likelihood going to see near 12-15 touches come Sunday. I consider him a must add based purely on situation alone.
packersfan
Footballguy
They could always go away from Jones and use Reece more. Plenty of coaches have done that with far more talented RBs than Jones. Despite McFadden and Goodson both getting hurt last Sunday Jones only got one carry. Instead, Reece was on the field a ton. Granted it was a different coaching staff but last season Jones was supposed to get a chance to play more when McFadden was hurt and his role didn't expand at all. I agree Jones is worth grabbing to see how this plays out but I think he's extremely risky to start unless you have no other choice. Reece strikes me as being much safer, especially in PPR leagues where I think he has a lot of upside even if Jones does start.
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taz
Footballguy
From the San Francisco Chronicle:
Reece would still be the safer bet in PPR and will be in on passing situations, but Jones could get a majority of carries. I missed out on Reece, but picked up Jones and think he'll at least get a chance to carry the ground game and likely get a couple of passes in open space. I'm crossing my fingers.
packersfan
Footballguy
So let me see if I have this straight - the coaching staff apparently didn't like Reece as the primary back in camp but they went to it on Sunday and the team had plenty of success moving the ball and Reece played well (granted, entirely as a receiver since he didn't have a carry) and the thinking is Jones is going to vault ahead of him on the depth chart and be the lead RB on Sunday? Could happen and certainly Raiders' beat writers are closer to the situation than I am but if the team thought Jones could handle a starter's workload how come he did not get more work after McFadden and Goodson left the game and why was Reece on the field so much instead? I know the Raiders were in pass-heavy mode trying to catch up but doesn't anyone think something similar could happen against the Ravens? Not like Oakland has a shutdown defense by any stretch. If they fall behind again, isn't it possible if not probable we'll see something similar to what we saw last Sunday when it was all Reece and no Jones?
massraider
Footballguy
Reece is a receiving fullback. He's Larry Centers.
I think Reece getting the ball as a tailback isn't much of an option.
If he gets the lions share of the carries, I think that says more about Jones than it does about Reece as a tailback. He's not a tailback.
Good thing about Jones is that he can help you with one play. One screen, one long run. I am going after him in every league I am in.
I think Reece getting the ball as a tailback isn't much of an option.
If he gets the lions share of the carries, I think that says more about Jones than it does about Reece as a tailback. He's not a tailback.
Good thing about Jones is that he can help you with one play. One screen, one long run. I am going after him in every league I am in.
ahartig
Footballguy
Wow, that oozes confidence. I'm thinking of benching bradshaw for Taiwan this week.....Carson has a first class seat on the Bandwagon
chinawildman
Footballguy
I think the Raiders coaching staff is as unsure about what will happen as we are. The most likely scenario is that they will run alot out of 2 back sets with Jones lined up as the tailback and Reece at FB. Single back passing sets you'd have to think it's Reece back there since that's basically what they did against the Bucs. But the guy that's most effective will be the one that continues to get touches. It's hard to imagine the coaches repeatedly slamming either into the Dline for 2ypc if that's not working.
This whole thing reeks of "hot hand"... which IMO gives the upper edge to Reece due to his versatility.
This whole thing reeks of "hot hand"... which IMO gives the upper edge to Reece due to his versatility.
footballnerd
Footballguy
Ravens barely beat KC 9-6, played CLE close twice, and let DAL score 29.....who knows what will happen
Otis
Footballguy
Oh hell yes.Wow, that oozes confidence. I'm thinking of benching bradshaw for Taiwan this week.....Carson has a first class seat on the Bandwagon
I hate that there is excitement building around jones. I picked him up too. Usually this type of excitement leads to a stat line like 5 carries, 10 yards, and a fumble.
We need to start bashing him. The opposite usually happens. Come on guys do it with me.
Taiwan jones sucks. All he has is speed. Can't break a tackle. No elusiveness. He'll never be a good nfl rb. It's all marcel Reece, all the time. F jones!!
We need to start bashing him. The opposite usually happens. Come on guys do it with me.
Taiwan jones sucks. All he has is speed. Can't break a tackle. No elusiveness. He'll never be a good nfl rb. It's all marcel Reece, all the time. F jones!!
kegger
Footballguy
I'm with yu (in full spirit)He sucks won't do anything this weekend..
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
I am not hopeful at all that Taiwan Jones makes an impact, short or long term.
BAL has been weak against the run this year, but they are slightly resurgent, and I don't see Jones as the kind of back who is able to find success against this D unit outside of his skill set, which is as a speedy out-in-space / around-the-corner runner. He is too light and runs with too little power to be effective between the tackle, and while he could find success in ZBS, it's not like he's had a lot of reps in gametime situations.
As a McFadden and a Goodson owner, in a very deep league, I picked up Jones for this week as I think he makes for a slightly better start than others potentially on the wire like Ivory or Ingram -- I think situation dictates Jones will see upwards of 12-15 carries, so the odds of production are higher, but nothing I've seen from Jones gives me confidence that he could do more with those carries than many less by Ivory, or Ingram for that matter.
Reece is the more all-around, all-purpose back and is a lot better in pass protect coverage as well. Though I don't see the Raiders ever handing over the keys to Reece for the lions share of carries, he is definitely the guy to have over Taiwan while both DMac and Goodson are recovering.
BAL has been weak against the run this year, but they are slightly resurgent, and I don't see Jones as the kind of back who is able to find success against this D unit outside of his skill set, which is as a speedy out-in-space / around-the-corner runner. He is too light and runs with too little power to be effective between the tackle, and while he could find success in ZBS, it's not like he's had a lot of reps in gametime situations.
As a McFadden and a Goodson owner, in a very deep league, I picked up Jones for this week as I think he makes for a slightly better start than others potentially on the wire like Ivory or Ingram -- I think situation dictates Jones will see upwards of 12-15 carries, so the odds of production are higher, but nothing I've seen from Jones gives me confidence that he could do more with those carries than many less by Ivory, or Ingram for that matter.
Reece is the more all-around, all-purpose back and is a lot better in pass protect coverage as well. Though I don't see the Raiders ever handing over the keys to Reece for the lions share of carries, he is definitely the guy to have over Taiwan while both DMac and Goodson are recovering.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
It's not hard to skip earlier posts. It says the date at the top of each post. I sometimes enjoy reading what people's thoughts/evaluations were. It's great to compare pre-season projections with in season results.
beerbarron
Footballguy
.. and TJ fumbles a lot.. cant pick up a blitzer... forget his video game like moves and 103 like madden speed... Ive hung onto him in a bunch of leagues.. hopintg for a break out this week... he still sucks though... ha ha...
habsfan
Footballguy
The fact that I find myself seriously considering dragging him directly from the waiver wire to my starting line-up this week means that my team would benefit from a bit of prayer this week. I think he's a play this week where at least the potential for reward is equal to the risk.'massraider said:
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
You drive the train sir. I'm aboard in all 3 of my leagues. choo choo!ALL ABOARD!!!!!
Rotoworld
yoadrian
Footballguy
It could have been that Jones isn't as well versed in the playbook as Reece (the starting fullback), and he did get behind Goodson in the depth chart. During game time, Reece might have been the safer pick at the time in the coaches minds. People are talking up Jones' size, but at 6' 200 lbs, DMAC being 6'1 218' (according to wiki), there isn't a TON of difference there, IMO. Having said that I wouldn't be surprised to see Jones perform well this week, but DMAC isn't that banged up so I don't see how this could continue down the stretch, barring setback to DMAC.'packersfan said:
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
The error I think in Rotoworld's analysis is the thinking that Reece was the "next man up" when both DMC and Goodson went down. That had more to do with the developed gameplan for Tampa Bay and Reece was heavily involved in that gameplan leading up to the game assuming DMC's health. Taiwan didn't get the work with the ones in practice or work within the Tampa gameplan to justify an expanded role. That didn't endear much short term trust in him from the coaching staff. They fed the ball to the man who was a more integral part of the gameplan, Reece.But with a new gameplan and a solid week of practice with the ones, that changes everything. Jones is getting immersed neck deep in the Baltimore gameplan. His role should change night and day from last week. The assumed pecking order based on last weeks roles is false imo.
packersfan
Footballguy
True and you could argue that's because their defense isn't very good and their running game isn't very good. The former isn't likely to suddenly improve and I'm wondering why people think the latter will improve with a third-string RB. Just because he's really fast?
I like the negativity I here guys. Keep it up and we might actually double negate jones into a huge day!!
But...we all know that won't happen BC Taiwan jones sucks!! If McFadden can't do much behind that oline jones will do 1/4 of that since he is 1/4 the talent that McFadden is, rt?
"Im a man..a man who built the Eiffel tower out of sgeer brawn. You're just a woman...a woman with a small brain. It's science."
But...we all know that won't happen BC Taiwan jones sucks!! If McFadden can't do much behind that oline jones will do 1/4 of that since he is 1/4 the talent that McFadden is, rt?
"Im a man..a man who built the Eiffel tower out of sgeer brawn. You're just a woman...a woman with a small brain. It's science."
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
Does anyone know if he will be the primary kick returner this Sunday - we get a little bump for that.
TarheelBlue
Footballguy
That's the right move. Nice playoff schedule too.
footballnerd
Footballguy
Charts show Goodson was the KR, and now Taiwan is.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I have not forgotten about that Saints preseason game. Jones was terrific and he scored a TD. Earlier in the season he was in teh running for the backup spot, it's not like the coaches refuse to use him. I am really excited to see him finally get a chance to start.I think the coaches' concerns stem from that fumble (he recovered) on the fake punt. Coaches are not amused by that.
On the other hand people are focusing on the lack of carries by Reece and Jones but Oak was in comeback mode by the time Goodson went out, 28-10, then 28-17 (they tried throwing to goodson for a score), then 35-17, etc. I don't think the staff will just abandon their run game out the gate vs Baltimore. Now, playing in BAL does concern me and they could fall behind...
I got both, still starting Reece if need be but stashing Jones.
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