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The “I want to retire soon” thread (6 Viewers)

I think some of you all are a bit out of touch with reality.
$15K/month is not only healthy, it is upper middle class. The MEDIAN household income is less than half of this amount, BEFORE taxes which means tens of millions of families are living on a lot less than this amount.
I also think some of you all are underestimating aging and dying. I can only speak from what I've seen, but my grandparents before dying lived on SS only for decades. No pensions, no 401k's. As my parents get older, they spend quite a bit less on discretionary things.
I know quite a few of you are petrified of long term health issues and home care, etc... And then there is the insurance discussion too. I've mentioned in other thread, but I can't stand insurance, biggest scam in the world, imho. Insurance is akin to gambling, and the only way you win is by losing. Insurance was illegal in the past due to this.

Last ramble is I've seen a number of people saying they'll never be able to afford this kind of money and there is no way they'll ever retire and so forth. The time to address this is NOW. Start saving, start investing, don't become overwhelmed. There has been a ton of information thrown around in this thread, quite a bit of misinformation as well. If you don't start planning for the future, hire someone that will for you. If you don't do either, I have no sympathies.
Voice of reason. I make good money, a healthy 403b, pension, and will have a high end SS, own a nice home (almost), not much debt (only what’s left on mortgage), and some of the figures thrown around in this thread are not in touch with reality for most, including me. Good for those that expect to be rich in their retirement.
Dual income households can make a huge difference.
Completely agree.
 
a ton of information thrown around in this thread, quite a bit of misinformation as well
this is pretty much America in a nutshell.


you want healthcare? well, better get to researching on your own.

where? there are literally thousands of sites to look at. some are good. some are crap. some are fraudulent.

how will you know? you won't. you just have to figure it out.

can i pay someone to figure this out for me? sure. it's really expensive and the person you pay may be good, may suck and may be a straight out cheat.

how much is enough? there are too many variables to predict. it's all just a guess. set aside anywhere from 5- 70% of your take home pay. any amount is enough, but it's also not.


good old "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" America. if you can't figure out a complex system designed to screw you, then you deserve whatever horrible things happen to you and no one cares.



brought to you by my 15 year old asking me "why don't schools teach us useful stuff like taxes and how to budget? or how to pay for a house and stuff? why should i have to take 2 years of French and choir when i'd rather take home ec but they won't let me?"

NOBODY KNOWS, KIDDO.

Once Big Choir got their hooks into public schools they never let go.


Kidding aside, this is a great post.
 
I think some of you all are a bit out of touch with reality.
$15K/month is not only healthy, it is upper middle class. The MEDIAN household income is less than half of this amount, BEFORE taxes which means tens of millions of families are living on a lot less than this amount.
I also think some of you all are underestimating aging and dying. I can only speak from what I've seen, but my grandparents before dying lived on SS only for decades. No pensions, no 401k's. As my parents get older, they spend quite a bit less on discretionary things.
I know quite a few of you are petrified of long term health issues and home care, etc... And then there is the insurance discussion too. I've mentioned in other thread, but I can't stand insurance, biggest scam in the world, imho. Insurance is akin to gambling, and the only way you win is by losing. Insurance was illegal in the past due to this.

Last ramble is I've seen a number of people saying they'll never be able to afford this kind of money and there is no way they'll ever retire and so forth. The time to address this is NOW. Start saving, start investing, don't become overwhelmed. There has been a ton of information thrown around in this thread, quite a bit of misinformation as well. If you don't start planning for the future, hire someone that will for you. If you don't do either, I have no sympathies.
Voice of reason. I make good money, a healthy 403b, pension, and will have a high end SS, own a nice home (almost), not much debt (only what’s left on mortgage), and some of the figures thrown around in this thread are not in touch with reality for most, including me. Good for those that expect to be rich in their retirement.
Dual income households can make a huge difference.
Completely agree.
I doubt this thread is of much use to someone that will have 500k annual income during retirement. Plus, dual incomes can change rather quickly with divorce or death.
 
I think some of you all are a bit out of touch with reality.
$15K/month is not only healthy, it is upper middle class. The MEDIAN household income is less than half of this amount, BEFORE taxes which means tens of millions of families are living on a lot less than this amount.
I also think some of you all are underestimating aging and dying. I can only speak from what I've seen, but my grandparents before dying lived on SS only for decades. No pensions, no 401k's. As my parents get older, they spend quite a bit less on discretionary things.
I know quite a few of you are petrified of long term health issues and home care, etc... And then there is the insurance discussion too. I've mentioned in other thread, but I can't stand insurance, biggest scam in the world, imho. Insurance is akin to gambling, and the only way you win is by losing. Insurance was illegal in the past due to this.

Last ramble is I've seen a number of people saying they'll never be able to afford this kind of money and there is no way they'll ever retire and so forth. The time to address this is NOW. Start saving, start investing, don't become overwhelmed. There has been a ton of information thrown around in this thread, quite a bit of misinformation as well. If you don't start planning for the future, hire someone that will for you. If you don't do either, I have no sympathies.
Voice of reason. I make good money, a healthy 403b, pension, and will have a high end SS, own a nice home (almost), not much debt (only what’s left on mortgage), and some of the figures thrown around in this thread are not in touch with reality for most, including me. Good for those that expect to be rich in their retirement.
Dual income households can make a huge difference.
True, until divorce or death (SS). Not many on here will have 500K annual income during retirement as someone mentioned I believe. Those that do, good for them.
Damn, some people get grumpy in here with red bold. Pretty sure you’re referring to my post but you need to read a bit better.

I said that the largest “needed” retirement income mentioned was $18k a month and backing into that $216k a year would be equivalent to $400k+ in current salary for us because my wife and I are maxing out 401ks, have college payments and lots of other older kid expenses. My point was that $18k per month was a ton to work with in retirement and compared to current salary with taking money out for 401k maxing/college.

I don’t believe anyone said anything about $500k in retirement income so you can relax. Personally, as I said before, I’d be ecstatic if we could get to $15k per month in retirement income without drawing down “principal”, which I’m well aware is a solid salary pre-retirement.
 
one of my friends makes somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-12x more annually, in a down year, than i do.

he's solo and worried about retirement income. how can regular schlubs stand a chance? when i say i plan to work until i die and never retire, that's not for laughs. that's reality.

one semi-possible option is getting citizenship & a job somewhere in Europe. the social safety net matters in most countries there vs. here where half the country wants to tear down any semblance of support for people 65+.
 
$15K/month is not only healthy, it is upper middle class. The MEDIAN household income is less than half of this amount,
Obviously targeted at my post. FWIW, to me “healthy” means being able to do the things we want. Much like being physically healthy, at the risk of sounding elitist, the median person isn’t healthy.

brought to you by my 15 year old asking me "why don't schools teach us useful stuff like taxes and how to budget? or how to pay for a house and stuff? why should i have to take 2 years of French and choir when i'd rather take home ec but they won't let me?"

NOBODY KNOWS, KIDDO.
Nobody takes choir unless they want to, around here anyway.
Obviously not all parents are capable but it really falls on parents to teach life skills.

I’ve considered starting a “life skills / community help” group around here. Get a diverse group of adults willing to teach kids life skills. The stuff they don’t teach in schools. Maybe that’s my retirement calling.
 
I think some of you all are a bit out of touch with reality.
$15K/month is not only healthy, it is upper middle class. The MEDIAN household income is less than half of this amount, BEFORE taxes which means tens of millions of families are living on a lot less than this amount.
I also think some of you all are underestimating aging and dying. I can only speak from what I've seen, but my grandparents before dying lived on SS only for decades. No pensions, no 401k's. As my parents get older, they spend quite a bit less on discretionary things.
I know quite a few of you are petrified of long term health issues and home care, etc... And then there is the insurance discussion too. I've mentioned in other thread, but I can't stand insurance, biggest scam in the world, imho. Insurance is akin to gambling, and the only way you win is by losing. Insurance was illegal in the past due to this.

Last ramble is I've seen a number of people saying they'll never be able to afford this kind of money and there is no way they'll ever retire and so forth. The time to address this is NOW. Start saving, start investing, don't become overwhelmed. There has been a ton of information thrown around in this thread, quite a bit of misinformation as well. If you don't start planning for the future, hire someone that will for you. If you don't do either, I have no sympathies.
Voice of reason. I make good money, a healthy 403b, pension, and will have a high end SS, own a nice home (almost), not much debt (only what’s left on mortgage), and some of the figures thrown around in this thread are not in touch with reality for most, including me. Good for those that expect to be rich in their retirement.
Dual income households can make a huge difference.
True, until divorce or death (SS). Not many on here will have 500K annual income during retirement as someone mentioned I believe. Those that do, good for them.
Damn, some people get grumpy in here with red bold. Pretty sure you’re referring to my post but you need to read a bit better.

I said that the largest “needed” retirement income mentioned was $18k a month and backing into that $216k a year would be equivalent to $400k+ in current salary for us because my wife and I are maxing out 401ks, have college payments and lots of other older kid expenses. My point was that $18k per month was a ton to work with in retirement and compared to current salary with taking money out for 401k maxing/college.

I don’t believe anyone said anything about $500k in retirement income so you can relax. Personally, as I said before, I’d be ecstatic if we could get to $15k per month in retirement income without drawing down “principal”, which I’m well aware is a solid salary pre-retirement.
Anyone with 15k - 18k per month retirement income without drawing on principle shouldn’t be worried about retirement. I take it that you’re still young talking about college expenses. I suppose I’m looking at those almost ready to retire, not those that are many years off.
 
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I am planning for ~$100k/year in annual expenses, and on retiring as soon as I get to that $3.5M invested figure as a result. Little conservative, but basically a 3% SWR target.

The hard part (interested in @PIK95 opinion) is that my wife seems to genuinely like work. Our first baby is due in TWO WEEKS, and I'm quite open to being a stay at home parent. The only hard part about that is right now, I make significantly more than her (last year was ~$400k all in vs her like $250k), so trying to balance what that means to savings, etc (we have a target of 50%/year savings rate) and not being shortsighted when a couple more years where I am is obviously a pretty meaningful chunk of change - not to mention the travel benefits and desire to push to lifetime platinum/globalist hotel statuses for future vacation enjoyment.

I'd really like to try and write, start a small business, or do something more autonomous anyway, so I imagine post "retiring" I'll still eventually have some income. I just really don't like working for other people. I don't always know the right answer, but when i think I do I'm very frustrated when someone else doesn't want to do it that way. I imagine many can relate.
 
$15K/month is not only healthy, it is upper middle class. The MEDIAN household income is less than half of this amount,
Obviously targeted at my post. FWIW, to me “healthy” means being able to do the things we want. Much like being physically healthy, at the risk of sounding elitist, the median person isn’t healthy.

brought to you by my 15 year old asking me "why don't schools teach us useful stuff like taxes and how to budget? or how to pay for a house and stuff? why should i have to take 2 years of French and choir when i'd rather take home ec but they won't let me?"

NOBODY KNOWS, KIDDO.
Nobody takes choir unless they want to, around here anyway.
Obviously not all parents are capable but it really falls on parents to teach life skills.

I’ve considered starting a “life skills / community help” group around here. Get a diverse group of adults willing to teach kids life skills. The stuff they don’t teach in schools. Maybe that’s my retirement calling.
for sure it falls to parents/grandparents, etc. to teach it but we never learned it as kids. my parents didn't know anything about retirement. they're barely HS graduates. blue collar without any people around them who worked with finances, etc. to teach them either.

the internet changes things a bit now. there's more info, but there's SO MUCH MISINFORMATION that it's almost worse.

i had the luck of having some older co-workers years ago that more or less forced me to start saving/investing in a 401k. i didn't have a clue about any of it 25 years ago. in the interim i've learned a bit but clearly not enough.. so i can pass along what i've learned and what i understand but is that... 5% of what they need to know? 70%? it's not 100, i know that.


people my age who i know are doing well also happen to be the children of professional parents (doctors, lawyers, etc.). money begets money. those of my peers that are well situated had things like well-funded investment accounts when they turned 18. inheritance from grandparents. parents who paid their tuition, etc. they grew up around money and had parents who had professional financial assistance.. they could afford to have someone help them understand how to manage their money and that trickles down.

i'm trying to learn and pass on to my kids what i have but it's not much. looking back at my younger days i should have bought rental property, invested more, but preoccupation with eating and not being homeless ate up all that investable income and then some. so my time was not filled with reading up on 401k's, Roth IRA's, pensions, etc.


something like a "life skills" course targeted at HS kids would be FANTASTIC. most kids aren't going to spend time outside of school taking those courses, though, imo. it would have to be part of the school curriculum. they're already there 8 hours a day. the rest is taken up by homework, sports, jobs as they get older. instead of another required course like a foreign language, or higher level math that many won't use, they should have access to real-life education like money management courses as you're suggesting.

maybe that exists... somewhere? but it's not here.
 
I think some of you all are a bit out of touch with reality.
$15K/month is not only healthy, it is upper middle class. The MEDIAN household income is less than half of this amount, BEFORE taxes which means tens of millions of families are living on a lot less than this amount.
I also think some of you all are underestimating aging and dying. I can only speak from what I've seen, but my grandparents before dying lived on SS only for decades. No pensions, no 401k's. As my parents get older, they spend quite a bit less on discretionary things.
I know quite a few of you are petrified of long term health issues and home care, etc... And then there is the insurance discussion too. I've mentioned in other thread, but I can't stand insurance, biggest scam in the world, imho. Insurance is akin to gambling, and the only way you win is by losing. Insurance was illegal in the past due to this.

Last ramble is I've seen a number of people saying they'll never be able to afford this kind of money and there is no way they'll ever retire and so forth. The time to address this is NOW. Start saving, start investing, don't become overwhelmed. There has been a ton of information thrown around in this thread, quite a bit of misinformation as well. If you don't start planning for the future, hire someone that will for you. If you don't do either, I have no sympathies.
Voice of reason. I make good money, a healthy 403b, pension, and will have a high end SS, own a nice home (almost), not much debt (only what’s left on mortgage), and some of the figures thrown around in this thread are not in touch with reality for most, including me. Good for those that expect to be rich in their retirement.
Dual income households can make a huge difference.
True, until divorce or death (SS). Not many on here will have 500K annual income during retirement as someone mentioned I believe. Those that do, good for them.
Damn, some people get grumpy in here with red bold. Pretty sure you’re referring to my post but you need to read a bit better.

I said that the largest “needed” retirement income mentioned was $18k a month and backing into that $216k a year would be equivalent to $400k+ in current salary for us because my wife and I are maxing out 401ks, have college payments and lots of other older kid expenses. My point was that $18k per month was a ton to work with in retirement and compared to current salary with taking money out for 401k maxing/college.

I don’t believe anyone said anything about $500k in retirement income so you can relax. Personally, as I said before, I’d be ecstatic if we could get to $15k per month in retirement income without drawing down “principal”, which I’m well aware is a solid salary pre-retirement.
Anyone with 15k - 18k per month retirement income without drawing on principle shouldn’t be worried about retirement. I take it that you’re still young talking about college expenses.
I agree, hence my ecstatic comment. Not young, but still bordering on almost a decade left depending on how **** goes the next few years.
 
I am planning for ~$100k/year in annual expenses, and on retiring as soon as I get to that $3.5M invested figure as a result. Little conservative, but basically a 3% SWR target.

The hard part (interested in @PIK95 opinion) is that my wife seems to genuinely like work. Our first baby is due in TWO WEEKS, and I'm quite open to being a stay at home parent. The only hard part about that is right now, I make significantly more than her (last year was ~$400k all in vs her like $250k), so trying to balance what that means to savings, etc (we have a target of 50%/year savings rate) and not being shortsighted when a couple more years where I am is obviously a pretty meaningful chunk of change - not to mention the travel benefits and desire to push to lifetime platinum/globalist hotel statuses for future vacation enjoyment.

I'd really like to try and write, start a small business, or do something more autonomous anyway, so I imagine post "retiring" I'll still eventually have some income. I just really don't like working for other people. I don't always know the right answer, but when i think I do I'm very frustrated when someone else doesn't want to do it that way. I imagine many can relate.
Collectively 650k annually. I should have married a a professional woman to approach that. I make great money, but that amount is insane money in my world.
 
$15K/month is not only healthy, it is upper middle class. The MEDIAN household income is less than half of this amount,
Obviously targeted at my post. FWIW, to me “healthy” means being able to do the things we want. Much like being physically healthy, at the risk of sounding elitist, the median person isn’t healthy.

brought to you by my 15 year old asking me "why don't schools teach us useful stuff like taxes and how to budget? or how to pay for a house and stuff? why should i have to take 2 years of French and choir when i'd rather take home ec but they won't let me?"

NOBODY KNOWS, KIDDO.
Nobody takes choir unless they want to, around here anyway.
Obviously not all parents are capable but it really falls on parents to teach life skills.

I’ve considered starting a “life skills / community help” group around here. Get a diverse group of adults willing to teach kids life skills. The stuff they don’t teach in schools. Maybe that’s my retirement calling.
for sure it falls to parents/grandparents, etc. to teach it but we never learned it as kids. my parents didn't know anything about retirement. they're barely HS graduates. blue collar without any people around them who worked with finances, etc. to teach them either.

the internet changes things a bit now. there's more info, but there's SO MUCH MISINFORMATION that it's almost worse.

i had the luck of having some older co-workers years ago that more or less forced me to start saving/investing in a 401k. i didn't have a clue about any of it 25 years ago. in the interim i've learned a bit but clearly not enough.. so i can pass along what i've learned and what i understand but is that... 5% of what they need to know? 70%? it's not 100, i know that.


people my age who i know are doing well also happen to be the children of professional parents (doctors, lawyers, etc.). money begets money. those of my peers that are well situated had things like well-funded investment accounts when they turned 18. inheritance from grandparents. parents who paid their tuition, etc. they grew up around money and had parents who had professional financial assistance.. they could afford to have someone help them understand how to manage their money and that trickles down.

i'm trying to learn and pass on to my kids what i have but it's not much. looking back at my younger days i should have bought rental property, invested more, but preoccupation with eating and not being homeless ate up all that investable income and then some. so my time was not filled with reading up on 401k's, Roth IRA's, pensions, etc.


something like a "life skills" course targeted at HS kids would be FANTASTIC. most kids aren't going to spend time outside of school taking those courses, though, imo. it would have to be part of the school curriculum. they're already there 8 hours a day. the rest is taken up by homework, sports, jobs as they get older. instead of another required course like a foreign language, or higher level math that many won't use, they should have access to real-life education like money management courses as you're suggesting.

maybe that exists... somewhere? but it's not here.
If you teach your kids anything at all about finances, it should be simply the power of compounding interest.
I'll never forget my 5th grade teacher telling the class that if someone started investing $2,000 at age 20 and saved $2,000/year for 10 years and then stopped, they would be a millionaire at 65 years old. Trying to explain to 11-12 year old guru that $20,000 = $1,000,000 was very hard to process :headexplode:
 
i had the luck of having some older co-workers years ago that more or less forced me to start saving/investing in a 401k. i didn't have a clue about any of it 25 years ago. in the interim i've learned a bit but clearly not enough.. so i can pass along what i've learned and what i understand but is that... 5% of what they need to know? 70%? it's not 100, i know that.
I think just starting a 401k as early as possible, keeping it all in high-risk areas until you near retirement, and not panicking during the down years is like 95% of what people really need to know.
 
i had the luck of having some older co-workers years ago that more or less forced me to start saving/investing in a 401k. i didn't have a clue about any of it 25 years ago. in the interim i've learned a bit but clearly not enough.. so i can pass along what i've learned and what i understand but is that... 5% of what they need to know? 70%? it's not 100, i know that.
I think just starting a 401k as early as possible, keeping it all in high-risk areas until you near retirement, and not panicking during the down years is like 95% of what people really need to know.
Investing in short:
Get at least the match.
Automate into a lifecycle fund or total market fund.
Set it, forget it, check once a year and treat it like your favorite sports team - cool when it’s “winning” but don’t try to game it.
 
If you teach your kids anything at all about finances, it should be simply the power of compounding interest.
I'll never forget my 5th grade teacher telling the class that if someone started investing $2,000 at age 20 and saved $2,000/year for 10 years and then stopped, they would be a millionaire at 65 years old. Trying to explain to 11-12 year old guru that $20,000 = $1,000,000 was very hard to process :headexplode:

Good topic. I've got a 20 year old daughter, 26 year old step-son, and two nephews in their 20s. As I shared in the PF thread, I bought them all "The Psychology of Money" for xmas, and told them if they read it and came to me with 10 bullets or questions I'd fund a Roth IRA for them. Only one of them has even started it, and the stepson left the book here....

I'm not going to force it with the other three, but this summer my daughter is reading it. I'm also going to help her do her taxes over Spring Break, she has her first job working at the on-campus gym at her university and made a little money last year. I started a Roth and put $90 in it when she made that much tutoring a few years ago in high school, and I'm going to have her contribute 10-15% of what she made last year and I'll match that. Hope to keep doing that for a few years as she (hopefully) launches and get a job out of college after next year.

i had the luck of having some older co-workers years ago that more or less forced me to start saving/investing in a 401k

I did the same thing when I was in my early 30s and first learning about this stuff myself. I took all of the entry-level kids into a conference room and walked through signing up for the 401K at a level high enough to at least get the match.

I’ve considered starting a “life skills / community help” group around here. Get a diverse group of adults willing to teach kids life skills. The stuff they don’t teach in schools. Maybe that’s my retirement calling.

I like this. Living back in the town I went to college I've thought about starting up a little basic personal finance education with the kids in the fraternity I was a part of, and if I get any traction trying to expand it from there.
 
i had the luck of having some older co-workers years ago that more or less forced me to start saving/investing in a 401k. i didn't have a clue about any of it 25 years ago. in the interim i've learned a bit but clearly not enough.. so i can pass along what i've learned and what i understand but is that... 5% of what they need to know? 70%? it's not 100, i know that.
I think just starting a 401k as early as possible, keeping it all in high-risk areas until you near retirement, and not panicking during the down years is like 95% of what people really need to know.
Investing in short:
Get at least the match.
Automate into a lifecycle fund or total market fund.
Set it, forget it, check once a year and treat it like your favorite sports team - cool when it’s “winning” but don’t try to game it.
I think I'd also add "don't compare yourself to your friends", but that's more psychological and probably much harder to learn than those basics of investing. I know it's something I've struggled with, but I'm getting better.
 
General question for you pensioners. Do/Did you take the lump sum payout or do you take the monthly benefit? What goes into the decision making?

Decision Making Talking Points:

Life expectancy
Growth rate of investments if you take lump sum
Financial security of company backing the monthly payments
Also, does the surviving spouse get something like a half pension? My mom got an amount that was half of my dad's every month until she died.
As I mentioned in the other thread, this can often be accomplished better with a life insurance policy. Your dad received a lower pension amount so that your mom would have something from the pension if/after he passed. That’s just a type of a life insurance policy.
Not in my parents' case. His pension was not determined that way. (Unusual circumstances.)
 
$15K/month is not only healthy, it is upper middle class. The MEDIAN household income is less than half of this amount,
Obviously targeted at my post. FWIW, to me “healthy” means being able to do the things we want. Much like being physically healthy, at the risk of sounding elitist, the median person isn’t healthy.

brought to you by my 15 year old asking me "why don't schools teach us useful stuff like taxes and how to budget? or how to pay for a house and stuff? why should i have to take 2 years of French and choir when i'd rather take home ec but they won't let me?"

NOBODY KNOWS, KIDDO.
Nobody takes choir unless they want to, around here anyway.
Obviously not all parents are capable but it really falls on parents to teach life skills.

I’ve considered starting a “life skills / community help” group around here. Get a diverse group of adults willing to teach kids life skills. The stuff they don’t teach in schools. Maybe that’s my retirement calling.
for sure it falls to parents/grandparents, etc. to teach it but we never learned it as kids. my parents didn't know anything about retirement. they're barely HS graduates. blue collar without any people around them who worked with finances, etc. to teach them either.

the internet changes things a bit now. there's more info, but there's SO MUCH MISINFORMATION that it's almost worse.

i had the luck of having some older co-workers years ago that more or less forced me to start saving/investing in a 401k. i didn't have a clue about any of it 25 years ago. in the interim i've learned a bit but clearly not enough.. so i can pass along what i've learned and what i understand but is that... 5% of what they need to know? 70%? it's not 100, i know that.


people my age who i know are doing well also happen to be the children of professional parents (doctors, lawyers, etc.). money begets money. those of my peers that are well situated had things like well-funded investment accounts when they turned 18. inheritance from grandparents. parents who paid their tuition, etc. they grew up around money and had parents who had professional financial assistance.. they could afford to have someone help them understand how to manage their money and that trickles down.

i'm trying to learn and pass on to my kids what i have but it's not much. looking back at my younger days i should have bought rental property, invested more, but preoccupation with eating and not being homeless ate up all that investable income and then some. so my time was not filled with reading up on 401k's, Roth IRA's, pensions, etc.


something like a "life skills" course targeted at HS kids would be FANTASTIC. most kids aren't going to spend time outside of school taking those courses, though, imo. it would have to be part of the school curriculum. they're already there 8 hours a day. the rest is taken up by homework, sports, jobs as they get older. instead of another required course like a foreign language, or higher level math that many won't use, they should have access to real-life education like money management courses as you're suggesting.

maybe that exists... somewhere? but it's not here.
Love my parents but they were not good with money and got a bit unlucky. They never gave me good financial knowledge. I wish I started investing way earlier and budgeted better. We never ever discussed things like rentals for passive income, which would have been damn helpful back when houses were 1/3 of the price. Since my wife started working again like a decade ago, we’ve made a gigantic jump but I’d be retired already if I’d had gotten good advice young. I’ve made a big attempt to get my boys more knowledgeable to start early and will continue to do so like making sure they start with Roths early in lower tax earlier years. Hopefully, they make so much that they need the tax breaks but I’ve made sure to keep on top of their spending.

That said, all of them have taken financial planning/investing type classes in HS.
 
$15K/month is not only healthy, it is upper middle class. The MEDIAN household income is less than half of this amount,
Obviously targeted at my post. FWIW, to me “healthy” means being able to do the things we want. Much like being physically healthy, at the risk of sounding elitist, the median person isn’t healthy.

brought to you by my 15 year old asking me "why don't schools teach us useful stuff like taxes and how to budget? or how to pay for a house and stuff? why should i have to take 2 years of French and choir when i'd rather take home ec but they won't let me?"

NOBODY KNOWS, KIDDO.
Nobody takes choir unless they want to, around here anyway.
Obviously not all parents are capable but it really falls on parents to teach life skills.

I’ve considered starting a “life skills / community help” group around here. Get a diverse group of adults willing to teach kids life skills. The stuff they don’t teach in schools. Maybe that’s my retirement calling.
for sure it falls to parents/grandparents, etc. to teach it but we never learned it as kids. my parents didn't know anything about retirement. they're barely HS graduates. blue collar without any people around them who worked with finances, etc. to teach them either.

the internet changes things a bit now. there's more info, but there's SO MUCH MISINFORMATION that it's almost worse.

i had the luck of having some older co-workers years ago that more or less forced me to start saving/investing in a 401k. i didn't have a clue about any of it 25 years ago. in the interim i've learned a bit but clearly not enough.. so i can pass along what i've learned and what i understand but is that... 5% of what they need to know? 70%? it's not 100, i know that.


people my age who i know are doing well also happen to be the children of professional parents (doctors, lawyers, etc.). money begets money. those of my peers that are well situated had things like well-funded investment accounts when they turned 18. inheritance from grandparents. parents who paid their tuition, etc. they grew up around money and had parents who had professional financial assistance.. they could afford to have someone help them understand how to manage their money and that trickles down.

i'm trying to learn and pass on to my kids what i have but it's not much. looking back at my younger days i should have bought rental property, invested more, but preoccupation with eating and not being homeless ate up all that investable income and then some. so my time was not filled with reading up on 401k's, Roth IRA's, pensions, etc.


something like a "life skills" course targeted at HS kids would be FANTASTIC. most kids aren't going to spend time outside of school taking those courses, though, imo. it would have to be part of the school curriculum. they're already there 8 hours a day. the rest is taken up by homework, sports, jobs as they get older. instead of another required course like a foreign language, or higher level math that many won't use, they should have access to real-life education like money management courses as you're suggesting.

maybe that exists... somewhere? but it's not here.
Love my parents but they were not good with money and got a bit unlucky. They never gave me good financial knowledge. I wish I started investing way earlier and budgeted better. We never ever discussed things like rentals for passive income, which would have been damn helpful back when houses were 1/3 of the price. Since my wife started working again like a decade ago, we’ve made a gigantic jump but I’d be retired already if I’d had gotten good advice young. I’ve made a big attempt to get my boys more knowledgeable to start early and will continue to do so like making sure they start with Roths early in lower tax earlier years. Hopefully, they make so much that they need the tax breaks but I’ve made sure to keep on top of their spending.

That said, all of them have taken financial planning/investing type classes in HS.
just recently i've started thinking about how i can buy a rental and put it in my kid's names. we're in a college area so there are options around here to make it possible. i dunno if taking the money i've been saving for them and plowing it in to a rental is better than just leaving it invested and letting it ride.... or do i let them have the cash in a few years and hope they make good decisions?

that said, i started saving this money so they could do with it the things i could not when i graduated HS. travel a little. have a little cushion for when things go wrong (car breaks down, etc.). or will they just blow through it in a year and be no better off.

mine are 15 and 12 right now. the 15 year old is somewhat starting to become aware of what things cost, but it's still (as for most kids) a fantasy really and what little i've been able to set aside for them won't be life changing in 3-5 years.. maybe if left alone it will matter in 30.
 
I am planning for ~$100k/year in annual expenses, and on retiring as soon as I get to that $3.5M invested figure as a result. Little conservative, but basically a 3% SWR target.

The hard part (interested in @PIK95 opinion) is that my wife seems to genuinely like work. Our first baby is due in TWO WEEKS, and I'm quite open to being a stay at home parent. The only hard part about that is right now, I make significantly more than her (last year was ~$400k all in vs her like $250k), so trying to balance what that means to savings, etc (we have a target of 50%/year savings rate) and not being shortsighted when a couple more years where I am is obviously a pretty meaningful chunk of change - not to mention the travel benefits and desire to push to lifetime platinum/globalist hotel statuses for future vacation enjoyment.

I'd really like to try and write, start a small business, or do something more autonomous anyway, so I imagine post "retiring" I'll still eventually have some income. I just really don't like working for other people. I don't always know the right answer, but when i think I do I'm very frustrated when someone else doesn't want to do it that way. I imagine many can relate.
Collectively 650k annually. I should have married a a professional woman to approach that. I make great money, but that amount is insane money in my world.
To be fair, Uncle Sam does take like 1/3 of it. But, yes, recognize we've both worked very hard and had some good breaks to be where we are. Grateful for sure.
 
$15K/month is not only healthy, it is upper middle class. The MEDIAN household income is less than half of this amount,
Obviously targeted at my post. FWIW, to me “healthy” means being able to do the things we want. Much like being physically healthy, at the risk of sounding elitist, the median person isn’t healthy.

brought to you by my 15 year old asking me "why don't schools teach us useful stuff like taxes and how to budget? or how to pay for a house and stuff? why should i have to take 2 years of French and choir when i'd rather take home ec but they won't let me?"

NOBODY KNOWS, KIDDO.
Nobody takes choir unless they want to, around here anyway.
Obviously not all parents are capable but it really falls on parents to teach life skills.

I’ve considered starting a “life skills / community help” group around here. Get a diverse group of adults willing to teach kids life skills. The stuff they don’t teach in schools. Maybe that’s my retirement calling.
for sure it falls to parents/grandparents, etc. to teach it but we never learned it as kids. my parents didn't know anything about retirement. they're barely HS graduates. blue collar without any people around them who worked with finances, etc. to teach them either.

the internet changes things a bit now. there's more info, but there's SO MUCH MISINFORMATION that it's almost worse.

i had the luck of having some older co-workers years ago that more or less forced me to start saving/investing in a 401k. i didn't have a clue about any of it 25 years ago. in the interim i've learned a bit but clearly not enough.. so i can pass along what i've learned and what i understand but is that... 5% of what they need to know? 70%? it's not 100, i know that.


people my age who i know are doing well also happen to be the children of professional parents (doctors, lawyers, etc.). money begets money. those of my peers that are well situated had things like well-funded investment accounts when they turned 18. inheritance from grandparents. parents who paid their tuition, etc. they grew up around money and had parents who had professional financial assistance.. they could afford to have someone help them understand how to manage their money and that trickles down.

i'm trying to learn and pass on to my kids what i have but it's not much. looking back at my younger days i should have bought rental property, invested more, but preoccupation with eating and not being homeless ate up all that investable income and then some. so my time was not filled with reading up on 401k's, Roth IRA's, pensions, etc.


something like a "life skills" course targeted at HS kids would be FANTASTIC. most kids aren't going to spend time outside of school taking those courses, though, imo. it would have to be part of the school curriculum. they're already there 8 hours a day. the rest is taken up by homework, sports, jobs as they get older. instead of another required course like a foreign language, or higher level math that many won't use, they should have access to real-life education like money management courses as you're suggesting.

maybe that exists... somewhere? but it's not here.
Love my parents but they were not good with money and got a bit unlucky. They never gave me good financial knowledge. I wish I started investing way earlier and budgeted better. We never ever discussed things like rentals for passive income, which would have been damn helpful back when houses were 1/3 of the price. Since my wife started working again like a decade ago, we’ve made a gigantic jump but I’d be retired already if I’d had gotten good advice young. I’ve made a big attempt to get my boys more knowledgeable to start early and will continue to do so like making sure they start with Roths early in lower tax earlier years. Hopefully, they make so much that they need the tax breaks but I’ve made sure to keep on top of their spending.

That said, all of them have taken financial planning/investing type classes in HS.
just recently i've started thinking about how i can buy a rental and put it in my kid's names. we're in a college area so there are options around here to make it possible. i dunno if taking the money i've been saving for them and plowing it in to a rental is better than just leaving it invested and letting it ride.... or do i let them have the cash in a few years and hope they make good decisions?

that said, i started saving this money so they could do with it the things i could not when i graduated HS. travel a little. have a little cushion for when things go wrong (car breaks down, etc.). or will they just blow through it in a year and be no better off.

mine are 15 and 12 right now. the 15 year old is somewhat starting to become aware of what things cost, but it's still (as for most kids) a fantasy really and what little i've been able to set aside for them won't be life changing in 3-5 years.. maybe if left alone it will matter in 30.
Rentals are tougher now because rates aren’t at 2% and property values are way up. Same with the market so who knows. I’d be tempted to just leave it invested. REITs might be a good option knowing that you don’t have to deal with a bad tenant.

My one in college and one in HS aren’t there yet in terms of independence but my oldest just graduated and it was nice to see this week that he paid for a pricey car repair himself. It’s his car and paid off since his FIL gave it to him when he couldn’t drive anymore. I’d been working with him on building up a $10k emergency fund and he’s been doing way better than I thought because he didn’t have a lot saved when he graduated and he’s paying for rent/food/student loans/etc. If he gets a good 1st review (coming up soon), he could hit that mark in 2-3 months. He’s also contributing to his 401k (Roth) to get the full match. Proud of him as he’s definitely not making bank yet. Maybe raise up his Roth contribution after hitting the emergency fund goal.

I’m going to work with my other two to try and have that emergency fund already set before graduation so moving costs/rent deposits and stuff like that are no problem. If my youngest stays in state like my middle son, I’ll make him the same deal that he won’t need loans. My oldest went out of state so he took out the FAFSA amount ($6kish per year), so he’s not burdened but he needed some skin in the game.
 
Very important, especially for younger people who have even just a little bit of salary cushion, to have the money taken out and put away before you/they see it. Young people find ways to spend and defer savings til later. Later means 30 years old, then 35, then 40, then the value of time is gone.
 
My retirement table. The kid college may be our helping pay off some loans. I'm sure I'm missing some things here.

DirecTV/Internet/Cell$ 370.00$ 4,440.00
DMV Registration$ 200.00$ 2,400.00
EBMUD$ 125.00$ 1,500.00
Food$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Garden$ 270.00$ 3,240.00
Gas$ 400.00$ 4,800.00
Housekeeping$ 460.00$ 5,520.00
Income Taxes$ 5,000.00$ 60,000.00
Insurance$ 425.00$ 5,100.00
Kid 1 College$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Kid 2 College$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Misc$ 2,000.00$ 24,000.00
Mortgage$ 6,000.00$ 72,000.00
PGE$ 200.00$ 2,400.00
Property Tax$ 3,000.00$ 36,000.00
Travel$ 1,200.00$ 14,400.00
Waste Management$ 80.00$ 960.00
TOTAL EXPENSES$ 24,230.00$ 290,760.00
 
You pay $200 a month for car registration?
Yeah I should modify that one. We have 3 cars, two on the newer side, and an older classic. Probably more like $125 on average.

ETA: I can probably trim the gas amount too since we won't need to commute anymore.
Don you mean insurance? I know this is off topic. I pay $200 a year for registration for 3 cars. I'm just fascinated by this lol
 
You pay $200 a month for car registration?
Yeah I should modify that one. We have 3 cars, two on the newer side, and an older classic. Probably more like $125 on average.

ETA: I can probably trim the gas amount too since we won't need to commute anymore.
Don you mean insurance? I know this is off topic. I pay $200 a year for registration for 3 cars. I'm just fascinated by this lol

We have a car excise tax in my state (this is on top of car registration, car inspection and car insurance). The excise tax can be quite high the newer (and more valuable) your car is. I don't know if this is what he referring to though.
 
a ton of information thrown around in this thread, quite a bit of misinformation as well
this is pretty much America in a nutshell.


you want healthcare? well, better get to researching on your own.

where? there are literally thousands of sites to look at. some are good. some are crap. some are fraudulent.

how will you know? you won't. you just have to figure it out.

can i pay someone to figure this out for me? sure. it's really expensive and the person you pay may be good, may suck and may be a straight out cheat.

how much is enough? there are too many variables to predict. it's all just a guess. set aside anywhere from 5- 70% of your take home pay. any amount is enough, but it's also not.


good old "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" America. if you can't figure out a complex system designed to screw you, then you deserve whatever horrible things happen to you and no one cares.



brought to you by my 15 year old asking me "why don't schools teach us useful stuff like taxes and how to budget? or how to pay for a house and stuff? why should i have to take 2 years of French and choir when i'd rather take home ec but they won't let me?"

NOBODY KNOWS, KIDDO.
This is a bit hyperbolic. It does take effort, but there are some very good sources out there.

Go read The Simple Path to Wealth by JL Collins. It's the #1 retirement book on Amazon, so easy to find. Great book, good advice. Very actionable.

Healthcare - manage income if under 65 and enroll in an ACA plan.

It doesn't have to be super complex. It really doesn't. Get your stash to 30x expenses and eliminate any debt and you're in good shape. 25x is very likely to be good, but the way to simplify the problem is to pad the numbers a bit.
 
My retirement table. The kid college may be our helping pay off some loans. I'm sure I'm missing some things here.

DirecTV/Internet/Cell$ 370.00$ 4,440.00
DMV Registration$ 200.00$ 2,400.00
EBMUD$ 125.00$ 1,500.00
Food$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Garden$ 270.00$ 3,240.00
Gas$ 400.00$ 4,800.00
Housekeeping$ 460.00$ 5,520.00
Income Taxes$ 5,000.00$ 60,000.00
Insurance$ 425.00$ 5,100.00
Kid 1 College$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Kid 2 College$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Misc$ 2,000.00$ 24,000.00
Mortgage$ 6,000.00$ 72,000.00
PGE$ 200.00$ 2,400.00
Property Tax$ 3,000.00$ 36,000.00
Travel$ 1,200.00$ 14,400.00
Waste Management$ 80.00$ 960.00
TOTAL EXPENSES$ 24,230.00$ 290,760.00
36k real estate tax is criminal. Given that I'm shocked at how little you pay for insurance.
 
Love my parents but they were not good with money and got a bit unlucky. They never gave me good financial knowledge. I wish I started investing way earlier and budgeted better. We never ever discussed things like rentals for passive income, which would have been damn helpful back when houses were 1/3 of the price. Since my wife started working again like a decade ago, we’ve made a gigantic jump but I’d be retired already if I’d had gotten good advice young. I’ve made a big attempt to get my boys more knowledgeable to start early and will continue to do so like making sure they start with Roths early in lower tax earlier years. Hopefully, they make so much that they need the tax breaks but I’ve made sure to keep on top of their spending.

That said, all of them have taken financial planning/investing type classes in HS.
I have three distinctive memories of my parents involving money. One is dad complaining often and loudly about not having money, while working 6 days a week. The second is my parents finally starting to invest while I was in high school. The third is our family friends who were quite wealthy buying a condo in Marco island which they rented out, but let us use for our honeymoon.
 
My retirement table. The kid college may be our helping pay off some loans. I'm sure I'm missing some things here.

DirecTV/Internet/Cell$ 370.00$ 4,440.00
DMV Registration$ 200.00$ 2,400.00
EBMUD$ 125.00$ 1,500.00
Food$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Garden$ 270.00$ 3,240.00
Gas$ 400.00$ 4,800.00
Housekeeping$ 460.00$ 5,520.00
Income Taxes$ 5,000.00$ 60,000.00
Insurance$ 425.00$ 5,100.00
Kid 1 College$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Kid 2 College$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Misc$ 2,000.00$ 24,000.00
Mortgage$ 6,000.00$ 72,000.00
PGE$ 200.00$ 2,400.00
Property Tax$ 3,000.00$ 36,000.00
Travel$ 1,200.00$ 14,400.00
Waste Management$ 80.00$ 960.00
TOTAL EXPENSES$ 24,230.00$ 290,760.00
36k real estate tax is criminal. Given that I'm shocked at how little you pay for insurance.
Our insurances combine to about the same but the mortgage is 1/5.
Our annual property tax is equal to their monthly.

I’m more impressed with the garden.
 
My retirement table. The kid college may be our helping pay off some loans. I'm sure I'm missing some things here.

DirecTV/Internet/Cell$ 370.00$ 4,440.00
DMV Registration$ 200.00$ 2,400.00
EBMUD$ 125.00$ 1,500.00
Food$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Garden$ 270.00$ 3,240.00
Gas$ 400.00$ 4,800.00
Housekeeping$ 460.00$ 5,520.00
Income Taxes$ 5,000.00$ 60,000.00
Insurance$ 425.00$ 5,100.00
Kid 1 College$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Kid 2 College$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Misc$ 2,000.00$ 24,000.00
Mortgage$ 6,000.00$ 72,000.00
PGE$ 200.00$ 2,400.00
Property Tax$ 3,000.00$ 36,000.00
Travel$ 1,200.00$ 14,400.00
Waste Management$ 80.00$ 960.00
TOTAL EXPENSES$ 24,230.00$ 290,760.00
36k real estate tax is criminal. Given that I'm shocked at how little you pay for insurance.

I think 'ol dead is pulling our leg a bit ...

where does he live?

not that it's impossible, but having your property tax half as much as your monthly mortgage is more than highly unusual
 
You pay $200 a month for car registration?
Yeah I should modify that one. We have 3 cars, two on the newer side, and an older classic. Probably more like $125 on average.

ETA: I can probably trim the gas amount too since we won't need to commute anymore.
Don you mean insurance? I know this is off topic. I pay $200 a year for registration for 3 cars. I'm just fascinated by this lol
Depends on the state. Here, car registration and excise tax on a couple year old car is typically $400-500 a year depending on the MSRP of the car when new.
 
You pay $200 a month for car registration?
Yeah I should modify that one. We have 3 cars, two on the newer side, and an older classic. Probably more like $125 on average.

ETA: I can probably trim the gas amount too since we won't need to commute anymore.
Don you mean insurance? I know this is off topic. I pay $200 a year for registration for 3 cars. I'm just fascinated by this lol
Depends on the state. Here, car registration and excise tax on a couple year old car is typically $400-500 a year depending on the MSRP of the car when new.
Interesting.... honestly assumed it was close to same every where.... apparently not

I pay approx 75 a car per year for registration, free inspections. Maybe NJ isn't completely terrible lol
 
You pay $200 a month for car registration?
Yeah I should modify that one. We have 3 cars, two on the newer side, and an older classic. Probably more like $125 on average.

ETA: I can probably trim the gas amount too since we won't need to commute anymore.
Don you mean insurance? I know this is off topic. I pay $200 a year for registration for 3 cars. I'm just fascinated by this lol

We have a car excise tax in my state (this is on top of car registration, car inspection and car insurance). The excise tax can be quite high the newer (and more valuable) your car is. I don't know if this is what he referring to though.
Yes, in California, we pay an annual registration fee that is based on the value of the car (sale price) and it declines with each year to account for depreciation. I think I'm paying ~$500/year for a $40k-ish car.
 
You pay $200 a month for car registration?
Yeah I should modify that one. We have 3 cars, two on the newer side, and an older classic. Probably more like $125 on average.

ETA: I can probably trim the gas amount too since we won't need to commute anymore.
Don you mean insurance? I know this is off topic. I pay $200 a year for registration for 3 cars. I'm just fascinated by this lol
Depends on the state. Here, car registration and excise tax on a couple year old car is typically $400-500 a year depending on the MSRP of the car when new.
Interesting.... honestly assumed it was close to same every where.... apparently not

I pay approx 75 a car per year for registration, free inspections. Maybe NJ isn't completely terrible lol
I think it all works out fairly similarly in the majority of states. Some sales tax, some higher property taxes, income taxes, excise taxes etc.
 
My retirement table. The kid college may be our helping pay off some loans. I'm sure I'm missing some things here.

DirecTV/Internet/Cell$ 370.00$ 4,440.00
DMV Registration$ 200.00$ 2,400.00
EBMUD$ 125.00$ 1,500.00
Food$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Garden$ 270.00$ 3,240.00
Gas$ 400.00$ 4,800.00
Housekeeping$ 460.00$ 5,520.00
Income Taxes$ 5,000.00$ 60,000.00
Insurance$ 425.00$ 5,100.00
Kid 1 College$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Kid 2 College$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Misc$ 2,000.00$ 24,000.00
Mortgage$ 6,000.00$ 72,000.00
PGE$ 200.00$ 2,400.00
Property Tax$ 3,000.00$ 36,000.00
Travel$ 1,200.00$ 14,400.00
Waste Management$ 80.00$ 960.00
TOTAL EXPENSES$ 24,230.00$ 290,760.00
36k real estate tax is criminal. Given that I'm shocked at how little you pay for insurance.

I think 'ol dead is pulling our leg a bit ...

where does he live?

not that it's impossible, but having your property tax half as much as your monthly mortgage is more than highly unusual
I wish. I live in the East Bay hills in the Bay Area. For reference, my mom lives in Oakland. Yeah, Oakland. 1,750sf house that needs a little updating. Decent lot. House is worth probably $2 million, maybe a bit less. Property tax on a $2 million house is going to be around $21k/year.

Insurance is reasonable. Yeah, $400/ month for house and car. That includes fire insurance, but NOT earthquake. That said, more and more companies are not offering home insurance to northern Californians in certain neighborhoods due to fire risk. Big companies have dropped out altogether. New home owners are often scrambling to get insurance for their new, nothing fancy multi-million dollar house.
 
My retirement table. The kid college may be our helping pay off some loans. I'm sure I'm missing some things here.

DirecTV/Internet/Cell$ 370.00$ 4,440.00
DMV Registration$ 200.00$ 2,400.00
EBMUD$ 125.00$ 1,500.00
Food$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Garden$ 270.00$ 3,240.00
Gas$ 400.00$ 4,800.00
Housekeeping$ 460.00$ 5,520.00
Income Taxes$ 5,000.00$ 60,000.00
Insurance$ 425.00$ 5,100.00
Kid 1 College$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Kid 2 College$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Misc$ 2,000.00$ 24,000.00
Mortgage$ 6,000.00$ 72,000.00
PGE$ 200.00$ 2,400.00
Property Tax$ 3,000.00$ 36,000.00
Travel$ 1,200.00$ 14,400.00
Waste Management$ 80.00$ 960.00
TOTAL EXPENSES$ 24,230.00$ 290,760.00
$6K mortgage and $460 a month for “housekeeping” are freaking me out a bit. How the hell big is your house?
 
My retirement table. The kid college may be our helping pay off some loans. I'm sure I'm missing some things here.

DirecTV/Internet/Cell$ 370.00$ 4,440.00
DMV Registration$ 200.00$ 2,400.00
EBMUD$ 125.00$ 1,500.00
Food$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Garden$ 270.00$ 3,240.00
Gas$ 400.00$ 4,800.00
Housekeeping$ 460.00$ 5,520.00
Income Taxes$ 5,000.00$ 60,000.00
Insurance$ 425.00$ 5,100.00
Kid 1 College$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Kid 2 College$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Misc$ 2,000.00$ 24,000.00
Mortgage$ 6,000.00$ 72,000.00
PGE$ 200.00$ 2,400.00
Property Tax$ 3,000.00$ 36,000.00
Travel$ 1,200.00$ 14,400.00
Waste Management$ 80.00$ 960.00
TOTAL EXPENSES$ 24,230.00$ 290,760.00
$6K mortgage and $460 a month for “housekeeping” are freaking me out a bit. How the hell big is your house?
3,000 sf. We pay a couple ladies to come every two weeks for a couple hours to clean the house. I think they are B+ quality. $230 per visit.

I've shopped that cost around. It's par around here.
 
My retirement table. The kid college may be our helping pay off some loans. I'm sure I'm missing some things here.

DirecTV/Internet/Cell$ 370.00$ 4,440.00
DMV Registration$ 200.00$ 2,400.00
EBMUD$ 125.00$ 1,500.00
Food$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Garden$ 270.00$ 3,240.00
Gas$ 400.00$ 4,800.00
Housekeeping$ 460.00$ 5,520.00
Income Taxes$ 5,000.00$ 60,000.00
Insurance$ 425.00$ 5,100.00
Kid 1 College$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Kid 2 College$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Misc$ 2,000.00$ 24,000.00
Mortgage$ 6,000.00$ 72,000.00
PGE$ 200.00$ 2,400.00
Property Tax$ 3,000.00$ 36,000.00
Travel$ 1,200.00$ 14,400.00
Waste Management$ 80.00$ 960.00
TOTAL EXPENSES$ 24,230.00$ 290,760.00
$6K mortgage and $460 a month for “housekeeping” are freaking me out a bit. How the hell big is your house?
3,000 sf. We pay a couple ladies to come every two weeks for a couple hours to clean the house. I think they are B+ quality. $230 per visit.

I've shopped that cost around. It's par around here.
Will that mortgage go away any time soon? That would be a huge savings.
And if it’s just you and your chickadee in retirement, $500 a month for house cleaning in retirement seems like a lot. Hell, have a fun few hours on a Saturday and clean together.
 
My retirement table. The kid college may be our helping pay off some loans. I'm sure I'm missing some things here.

DirecTV/Internet/Cell$ 370.00$ 4,440.00
DMV Registration$ 200.00$ 2,400.00
EBMUD$ 125.00$ 1,500.00
Food$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Garden$ 270.00$ 3,240.00
Gas$ 400.00$ 4,800.00
Housekeeping$ 460.00$ 5,520.00
Income Taxes$ 5,000.00$ 60,000.00
Insurance$ 425.00$ 5,100.00
Kid 1 College$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Kid 2 College$ 1,500.00$ 18,000.00
Misc$ 2,000.00$ 24,000.00
Mortgage$ 6,000.00$ 72,000.00
PGE$ 200.00$ 2,400.00
Property Tax$ 3,000.00$ 36,000.00
Travel$ 1,200.00$ 14,400.00
Waste Management$ 80.00$ 960.00
TOTAL EXPENSES$ 24,230.00$ 290,760.00
$6K mortgage and $460 a month for “housekeeping” are freaking me out a bit. How the hell big is your house?
3,000 sf. We pay a couple ladies to come every two weeks for a couple hours to clean the house. I think they are B+ quality. $230 per visit.

I've shopped that cost around. It's par around here.
Will that mortgage go away any time soon? That would be a huge savings.
And if it’s just you and your chickadee in retirement, $500 a month for house cleaning in retirement seems like a lot. Hell, have a fun few hours on a Saturday and clean together.
26-ish years left. I'm ok with that. Have a lot of equity in the home.

We may take to cleaning, and gardening, ourselves. But if we can afford not to...
 
People just don’t understand how ridiculously expensive everything is in the Bay Area. I fought and fought for 25 years to keep my financial head above water, making a pretty decent living…..for almost anywhere else in the country.
 
looking back at my younger days i should have bought rental property, invested more, but preoccupation with eating and not being homeless ate up all that investable income and then some. so my time was not filled with reading up on 401k's, Roth IRA's, pensions, etc.

This.
 
So I think we may be underestimating the impact of inflation on our expected retirements for at least those of us looking 10 to 15 years out. My wife's pension, if she works 15 more years, will be $20k/month (includes social security, I believe...that's what the estimate says). She's a good earner, but modest by Bay Area means. I don't think $20k will be what we think it will be 15 years from now. I guess that's why 30 year mortgages, especially at low interest rates, become manageable over time. We bit off more that we could chew once upon a time, and that's paid off. I'll always advise folks to buy more house than they think they can afford...

Can't do the Lump Sum, which is an absurd number. I don't even want to state it. But we can't do it because we will forego medical benefits, which with the University of California, I'm told are top notch.

Learning a lot. Even flirting with establishing a firm retirement plan, but at ~15 years out, may not be ready yet.

I have a feeling many of us will have more $ than we think, but I also think that $ will not go as far as we think it will go in the future. Not too long ago, $40k for a decent new car was a fortune, now it's resonable. In 10 years, that number might be $75k.
You know...You're 100% right...I i have NO factor in for inflation and that's hugely important. Gotta do some refiguring
I prefer to think in things in terms of current dollars. As long as you use inflation adjusted returns in your planning, it is picked up.
My returns aren't inflation adjusted but my deductions are. I think that makes the most sense. So I figure out what I'd need/desire in today's dollars and then on my little spreadsheet, each year that deduction increases based on a fixed inflation rate. I also inflation adjust SS (though at 1 percentage point less just to play it safe) and my house.
I do bump SS 1.8% annually. Maybe thats low, maybe that's high. But it seems OK.
I also increase the tax rates slightly from now to when I retire. That's also a guess.
What I will do is bump my budget numbers a small % annually---just to insure I have enough factored in there
 
People just don’t understand how ridiculously expensive everything is in the Bay Area. I fought and fought for 25 years to keep my financial head above water, making a pretty decent living…..for almost anywhere else in the country.
After 5 years there, we left a situation splitting a modest 2 BR apartment with another couple where they got the master, so our share was "only" $2400/mo, and with a brief stop in Chicago for my wife's grad school (where we had a solo apartment around the same size as the 2 BR for $1600/mo), we ended up in Dallas, where we have a comparatively giant house for a mortgage of only $3400/mo (incl prop tax). That doesnt even include that we get a yard, we have a garage and no longer pay for parking, and our utilities are all cheaper.

Bay Area cost of living is absolutely bonkers.
 
looking back at my younger days i should have bought rental property, invested more, but preoccupation with eating and not being homeless ate up all that investable income and then some. so my time was not filled with reading up on 401k's, Roth IRA's, pensions, etc.

This.
I did a great job during college - took a full scholarship and worked, sometimes multiple jobs, throughout college. Rent was very cheap, food and gas pretty cheap in OK too. So I was maxing a Roth IRA every year from age 15 (when my mom would drive me to the YMCA to referee basketball games) until grad school took over in 2015 or so. Then had a lull, but once working for real began in 2018, maxed 401k and did a backdoor Roth IRA every year. Even early on in our marriage we felt like we were really just scraping by...but we were socking away a ton. And by keeping lifestyle somewhat close to that (still cook at home a ton, vacations often done mostly on points/miles, etc), the savings can increase rapidly with each raise.

My biggest lesson from my CPA parents is how important it is to develop savings habits in my kids early on. From the time I was legit a toddler when we'd get like $20 from grandma for your birthday, my parents would take half and put it in a bank account and let you use half for a toy or whatever. That habit is like psychologically burned into my brain - I can't help but basically immediately try to save half of anything that comes in.
 
If you teach your kids anything at all about finances, it should be simply the power of compounding interest.
I'll never forget my 5th grade teacher telling the class that if someone started investing $2,000 at age 20 and saved $2,000/year for 10 years and then stopped, they would be a millionaire at 65 years old. Trying to explain to 11-12 year old guru that $20,000 = $1,000,000 was very hard to process :headexplode:
One should note that to get to $1M by age 65 would require slightly higher than a 10% rate of return, in a 401K or other non-taxable vehicle. Granted, the stock market has averaged around 10% between 1980 and 2021, but that's not a guarantee. At a more modest 7%, the total at age 65 would be $315K.
 

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